2011 VISION BUILDERS BROCHURE
Go to www.myc3church.net.
On the above banner, roll your mouse over COMMUNITY, scroll down to ‘Vision Builders’ and click the link. View thumbnail if you are not sure how to do this.
You will be taken to this page: http://www2.myc3church.net/visionbuilders. Scroll past the videos until you reach the bottom.
You will see a link that says, ‘Vision Builders E-Brochure’. Click on it and you should be taken to this link: http://issuu.com/c3churchsydney/docs/vision-builders-2011?AID=10829131&PID=4166869&SID=5mxehuev2ic3.
Click the ‘Click To Read’ button over the brochure image. You should be taken to a full screen mode to browse the brochure. Flick through until you reach a double page spread that has the title: ‘Essential Info.’. (On the left hand side the page number is pg. 14). Read page 15.
The question is:
“Q / I am in significant debt, should I pay off my debts or give to Vision Builders?” – Vision Builders 2011, http://issuu.com/c3churchsydney/docs/vision-builders-2011?AID=10829131&PID=4166869&SID=5mxehuev2ic3, pg. 15.
What is C3’s response?
“A / If you are in ‘out of control debt’, after your tithe the debt should be your next priority. Reducing the debt to a manageable amount (or even clearing it completely) should be attempted as you also make a manageable gift to Vision Builders. Remember no amount is insignifcant.” – Vision Builders 2011, http://issuu.com/c3churchsydney/docs/vision-builders-2011?AID=10829131&PID=4166869&SID=5mxehuev2ic3, pg. 15.
C3 seems to believe if someone is ‘in out of control debt’ they must tithe, no matter what. Surely this is a typo. Surely they made a mistake. Surely they would fix this?
Even more shocking is that C3 expects the ‘out of control debt’ member after their tithe, to not only start trying to reduce their debt, but SHOULD be attempting to ‘make a managebale gift to Vision Builders. Remember no amount is insignificant’.
Clearly C3 stuffed up. Surely they did not mean this. This sounds cruel. How can a church demand someone tithe if they are in out of control debt AND expect a manageable gift to Vision Builders?
We will now look at the 2010 Vision Builder Brochure.
2010 VISION BUILDERS BROCHURE
C3 Church has another online name at ISSUU. So lets go back to the main page. (This is the link in case you lost it: http://issuu.com/c3churchsydney/docs/vision-builders-2011?AID=10829131&PID=4166869&SID=5mxehuev2ic3.) Go up to the search bar (that has the button it’s right saying ‘Search issuu’) and type in C3 Church’s other online name ‘C3ChurchOnline’. Click the ‘Search issuu’ and this page should load: http://issuu.com/search?q=C3ChurchOnline.
Click on the link ‘C3 Church Vision Builders’. You will be taken to this page: http://issuu.com/c3churchonline/docs/visionbuilders_web. (Observe the date this was uploaded: ‘June 17, 2010’.)
Once again you’ll hit the same information we found in the Vision Builders 2011 Campaign Booklet in the Vision Builders 2010 Campaign Booklet.
The information is nearly exactly the same. To any financially distressed C3 member, it is repeated that they need to tithe regardless before they focus on looking at getting out of debt.
“I AM IN SIGNIFICANT DEBT, SHOULD I PAY OFF MY DEBTS OR GIVE TO VISION BUILDERS?
If you are in ‘out of control debt’, after your tithe the debt should be your next priority. Reducing the debt to a manageable amount (or even clearing it completely) should be done before signicant commitments are made to Vision Builder.” – Vision Builders 2010, http://issuu.com/c3churchonline/docs/visionbuilders_web, pg. 10.
FROM WORSE TO WORST
In 2010, C3 said that you must pay your tithe before getting out of significant debt. In 2011, C3 added MORE requirements for their members in ‘out of control debt’. Members in ‘out of control debt’ not only had to tithe, they were expected to ‘make a managable gift to Vision Builders. Remember no amount is insignificant’.
IS C3 INCOMPETENT IN OFFERING GOOD FINANCIAL ADVICE?
Equally disturbing is C3 Church’s approach to finances in these pages.
What we have done below is compiled a condensed version of all the advice they are providing on correct financial giving.
Confused? Is this intentional? These C3 brochures contradict themselves completely in their financial advice. How can C3 say, “the Bible instructs people to tithe the first 10% of income to the church” but then say “there is no pressure for anyone, new or old to give”?
Is this approach to giving biblical?
No. C3 above are mishandling the scriptures Malachi 3:10 and Matthew 23:23. These scriptures will be addressed in latter C3ChurchWatch articles to come. This is because C3 often uses these specific scriptures to justify their false tithe doctrine.
It then begs the question: How can someone use common sense, God’s Word, wisdom, facts, ‘faith’ and realistic decision-making skills, to determine what they give when it is expected that ‘out of control debt’ C3 members are to give 10% of what they don’t have- AND then go above and beyond the tithe by giving something like everyone else?
Isn’t this manipulation? Is this purposely confusing?
CONCLUSION
If you go examine the first thumbnail image in this post, it is worth noting that the link to ‘Vision Builders’ is under the heading ‘COMMUNITY’. On C3’s website Phil Pringle is campaigning C3’s ‘Family Matters’ seminar, ‘RELATE Relationships Month’ and is still promoting his series ‘I LIKE PEOPLE’. Observing how Pringle treats the financially desperate in his congregation leading up to his Vision Builders campaign, is this insight as to why he is target marketing families with ‘love’?
Would you trust a church and the pastor that financially exploits the poorest people in their congregation like this?
Note: All screen grabs were taken on the 04/10/2011.
EDIT (08/06/2012): SOME BETTER QUALITY SCREEN GRABS WERE RETAKEN ON THE 08/06/2012.
C3 Church Watch 
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i can’t believe this is for real!
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First of all, in the heading, that should be “its”, not “it’s”. Good lord, it’s not that hard.
Second, plenty of churches, even those who you would say aren’t part of the so-called prosperity movement, say to put the tithe first, even if in debt. Why pick on C3?
Firstly, it’s “secondly”, *not* “second”.
Secondly, the doctrine of tithing is a filthy lie from the pit of hell. Those who teach it will most certainly be called to account by the One who will judge all men.
Sadly, no amount of good works, as great as they may be can get us into heaven, nor should we boast of them. We are judged by our works. Even as good as it is that this is being done. It is by God’s grace that we are saved through faith. Ephesians 2 v 8: Not anything that we as individuals or churches do for the community. We should be doing good works because of our love for our Savior and the redemption that has been bestowed upon us we will want to, not because it will look good to the commuity, the people of our locations and just maybe get them to “our” church. Also, in addition to the above comment, to teach “christians” how to budget weekly and fiscally and tie them to a contract of giving to a particular, home church, is wrong as stated above. God does not force anyone, but give freely as they have received. Nor does he expect people to
give an amount of finances that was done away at the time of his crucifixion anyway and was part of the levitical priesthood of the covenant of Moses, we are now in covenant with Christ, our High priest.
“The tithe in itself is a false and deceptive doctrine. Any proper student in theology can tell you that.”
With all due respect to students, I’ll stick to what I hear from people who actually finished the course, graduated, and pastor their own churches.
And no, I’m not just talking about C3 and Hillsong pastors. (roll eyes)
“Someone part of C3ChurchWatch has already asked if we can simply call the C3 Church Movement what it really is: a cult. It’s true. It is. However, we need to do a lot more research to demonstrate this to be true.”
Well, if you haven’t already got enough research in the last few years, from a church that has been running for 30+ years, could it be at all possible that, I don’t know, it’s not really a cult? Just saying…
‘With all due respect to students, I’ll stick to what I hear from people who actually finished the course, graduated, and pastor their own churches.’
Actually, that’s wrong. You should listen to the Holy Spirit, not to men – and particularly not to those men who prove themselves incapable of correctly handling the Scriptures.
The fact that someone “graduates” means nothing. The fact that someone “pastors their own church” means nothing – and it’s not “their” church anyway (and that’s assuming that it is in fact a genuine church, and not simply a crowd gathering to worship a mere man).
God is not interested in what degrees are hung on someone’s wall, and He couldn’t care less about how popular someone is, or how much acclaim they receive, or how successful they appear to be. He judges according to what is in a man’s heart, not according to outward appearances. This truth is timeless and immutable; it is elementary and foundational.
It appears that you have a long, long way to go on your journey of understanding.
If C3 church is doing anything wrong, it is God who will judge them and not any of you! Our God is not blind to what is going on and His pastors who shepherd his flock will be held fully accountable for all they do or do not do. One thing I do know for sure is attacking & deeming would not be Jesus’s approach. If you are concerned what you should do is bring it to out Lord in prayer and let him handle it. If you carry offense in your heart against c3 church you will have to forgive as God has commanded us to do! GOD IS GOOD, HE KNOWS EVERYTHING AND IT IS ALL IN HIS HANDS, SO DONT CONCERN YOURSELF WITHSOME ELSES HEART SEE YOUR OWN HEART AND WHETHER IT IS PLEASING TO OUR WONDERFUL LORD!
Well said. Though around here, you say that and you’ll only be accused of not being saved or reading your bible.
I do currently attend one, yes. However I’ve also attended a number of other churches too, and was a Christian before attending C3. So in answer to your unasked question, no, I have not been brainwashed as a result of growing up in C3.
Dorris,
“If you carry offense in your heart against c3 church you will have to forgive […]”
It sounds like you are carrying an offense against those who stand up for God’s truth – but we forgive you for that.
As for who else is offended at whom, it is the case that some pastors at C3 are offended by those who rightly criticise their errors. However those pastors do not admit their many serious faults, do not repent of their ways, do not enter into rational discussions with their detractors, and do not pray with those who correctly handle God’s word; but they rather mock, malign, marginalise, browbeat and bully them.
Furthermore, the fact that Phil Pringle wilfully preaches a false gospel based on law rather than grace puts him in conflict with the Truth – he thus deliberately chooses to make himself an offence to God.
The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep, the truly Godly man is humble and teachable, and the genuine leader is the servant of all – but that is not how some so-called “apostles” and self-proclaimed “prophets” behave, is it?
“GOD IS GOOD, HE KNOWS EVERYTHING AND IT IS ALL IN HIS HANDS, SO DONT CONCERN YOURSELF WITHSOME ELSES HEART SEE YOUR OWN HEART AND WHETHER IT IS PLEASING TO OUR WONDERFUL LORD!”
Why are you shouting? It won’t alter the facts – Phil Pringle says that Christians are obliged to tithe, and that is simply not true. We know that preaching a false gospel is not pleasing to “our wonderful Lord”, and that it never will be.
Heresy is heresy, and if it troubles you that some people should point that out, perhaps you should consider what will happen to those who pervert the truth when the time comes for them to give account of themselves to God – or don’t you know that those who are “leaders” will be more strictly judged?
P.S.
“One thing I do know for sure is attacking & deeming [sic] would not be Jesus’s [sic] approach.”
You must have missed reading the bits where Jesus absolutely tore strips off the Pharisees: he publicly excoriated them for their wickedness and greed – and, above all, for their rank hypocrisy.
Finding fault in churches that preach Christ and Christ crucified is patently against scripture…James 4:11 says “Don’t criticize one another, brothers. He who criticizes a brother or judges his brother criticizes the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge.” I have listened to Phil preach and have found nothing wrong with his teachings so far. And as far as the bit on the tithe being mute in the new covenant…how is this so, when the new covenant fulfills the old covenant. That the law is fulfilled by the spirit in us. This in no way negates the command to give your first fruits to Him. This only says that now we should be motivated by the spirit of God directly instead of the law itself. That we are not condemned by the law but now justified by faith to do His will gladly. Jesus gave His life on a cross! Can’t we suffer 10 percent back to the Kingdom? Or is this just too much for you to bear? If we are in actual spirit relationship with the Father, then we will know how to give freely to His works, whether its through C3 or any other ministry. If you have doubts on the subject, then ask the Father for wisdom. He is able to give it and will freely when your motive is pure.
Read what the apostle Paul said to the apostle Peter. Galatians chapter 2.
Do you think what Paul said elsewhere was against scripture too? E.g. Romans 16:17-19, 2 Timothy 2: 17-18, 2 Timothy 4:14-15, Ephesians 5:11.
http://www.forgottenword.org/naming-names.html
Jules,
“[The New Covenant] in no way negates the command to give your first fruits to Him.”
Really? So if you are obeying the command to give your first fruits to Him, are you obeying the command that says you should observe the Sabbath? Are you observing all the commands with regards to food? Offering all the prescribed sacrifices? Celebrating all the special days? If not, why not? Don’t you know that anyone who breaks as much as a single law has become a lawbreaker, and is just as guilty as one who has broken them all?
“This only says that now we should be motivated by the spirit of God directly instead of the law itself. That we are not condemned by the law but now justified by faith to do His will gladly.”
If we are not condemned by the law, how is it that Phil Pringle – with whose teaching you can find no fault – says that those who fail to tithe are cursed? If what Phil has said is true, then the sacrifice of Jesus on the cross was not enough – we still have to obey the law. But God says that Jesus took the curse from us when he was hung on a tree; that we are in fact freed from the curse of the law. So who is telling the truth – is it God, or is it Phil Pringle?
“Jesus gave His life on a cross! Can’t we suffer 10 percent back to the Kingdom? Or is this just too much for you to bear?”
So you are saying that since God showed us so much grace, we should be able to reciprocate by walking after the law? Paul said that those who are attempted to be justified by obeying the law have fallen away from grace, and that they have been alienated from Christ. Did you know that? Have you read the book of Galatians? God’s gracious gift is received by faith, not “activated” by works – and this has been so right from the beginning, when Abraham was justified by faith.
You should stop blindly following the man who is leading you astray, and you should start listening to God. You can best commence by actually reading Scripture for yourself, and comparing the truths therein to the nonsense you are hearing from Phil.
But should we obey the commands to love, dear Zorro?
If the Law and Prophets hang on the commandments to love, how is that love outworked, and what is the connection between the fulfilment of the Law and the Prophets and the commands to love?
If we obey the commandments to love, do we have to follow the Mosaic Law also, or has Jesus fulfilled it on our behalf so that we are free to operate in the Spirit rather than the letter of the Law?
Was there something wrong with the Law? Has any jot or tittle been removed from the Law?
Or is it the redemption of the sin nature which changes our hearts and spirits so that the Law is written therein so we can live in the Spirit and fulfil all the requirements of the Law through walking in love?
“Finding fault in churches that preach Christ and Christ crucified is patently against scripture…”
Ask yourself this question. What does C3 faithfully preach every service?
Jesus or money?
“James 4:11 says “Don’t criticize one another, brothers.”
We take James 4:11 to heart. We hope you apply that yourself to those we address our concerns about on this blog.
In the scripture you quoted, ‘criticize’ is not the right word. ‘To speak evil of’, slander, defame or backbite is the correct word here. This actually fits the deplorable behaviour of C3 leadership. Pringle himself teaches Christians who question him to be on the side of Satan. Mark Kelsey teaches that Christians outside their movement are ‘soothsayers and says, “They don’t know what they’re talking about”.
Rather than correct those who aren’t slandering, please question why church leaders have the right to slander, demonise, defame and mock Christians who disagree with them.
“That the law is fulfilled by the spirit in us.”
The Laws was fulfilled through Christ and not us. The Law could never make us good, righteous or blessed by God. Through Christ we are made good, righteous and blessed by God. The ‘first fruits’ or the ‘tithe’ is strictly an old testament Law that was a form of tax. It wasn’t monetary. It wasn’t restricted to the average person. It was restricted to the workers of the land. It was a food offering.
It is badly argued that the tithe was before the Law. While it is called a tithe, it is the exact opposite to the tithe of the Law. If you read the accounts in Genesis 14 and 28, God blessed Abraham and Jacob BEFORE they tithed and they only tithed ONCE. Therefore this type of ‘tithe’ disqualifies itself to be the same thing as the Mosaic tithe. C3 always uses (and twists) the Malachi 3:8-10 tithe to curse their congregation with. If you want to tithe, go for it. Lets see how the leadership react to you when you start exporting your groceries to a temple in Jerusalem that doesn’t exist.
“Jesus gave His life on a cross! Can’t we suffer 10 percent back to the Kingdom?”
You’ll be suffering more than that.
“… we should be motivated by the spirit of God directly instead of the law itself.”
Amen. C3 however thinks likewise. Pringle demands you tithe. Otherwise you are hindering and cursing his movement. If you don’t believe us, we will happily provide the footage where he intimidates his congregation to tithe.
@Jules,
21 Tell me, you who are bent on being under the Law, will you listen to what the Law [really] says?
22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondmaid and one by the free woman.
23 But whereas the child of the slave woman was born according to the flesh and had an ordinary birth, the son of the free woman was born in fulfillment of the promise.
24 Now all this is an allegory; these [two women] represent two covenants. One covenant originated from Mount Sinai [where the Law was given] and bears [children destined] for slavery; this is Hagar.
25 Now Hagar is (stands for) Mount Sinai in Arabia and she corresponds to and belongs in the same category with the present Jerusalem, for she is in bondage together with her children.
26 But the Jerusalem above ([h]the Messianic kingdom of Christ) is free, and she is our mother.
27 For it is written in the Scriptures, Rejoice, O barren woman, who has not given birth to children; break forth into a joyful shout, you who are not feeling birth pangs, for the desolate woman has many more children than she who has a husband.
28 But we, brethren, are children [[i]not by physical descent, as was Ishmael, but] like Isaac, born [j]in virtue of promise.
29 Yet [just] as at that time the child [of ordinary birth] born according to the flesh despised and persecuted him [who was born remarkably] according to [the promise and the working of] the [Holy] Spirit, so it is now also.
30 But what does the Scripture say? Cast out and send away the slave woman and her son, for never shall the son of the slave woman be heir and share the inheritance with the son of the free woman.
31 So, brethren, we [who are born again] are not children of a slave woman [[k]the natural], but of the free [[l]the supernatural].(Galatians 4
Amplified Bible)
Churchwatcher wrote:
“Finding fault in churches that preach Christ and Christ crucified is patently against scripture…”
Ask yourself this question. What does C3 faithfully preach every service?
Jesus or money?
And ask YOURSELF this: if C3 did only faithfully preach about money every service, why are all your articles from the last few months either generic church articles written by someone else that you’ve copy and pasted, or Pat Mesiti-related things from 6+ years ago? Why the sudden interest in a man who doesn’t even attend C3 anymore?
So Jay,
Would you deny that Phil has claimed that those who fail to tithe are “robbing God”, and that they are “under a curse” as a result?
Would you deny that by saying such things, Phil is in fact preaching a false gospel – a gospel of works of the law, rather than of grace?
If so, I’d be most interested to see what sort of defence you can offer for your position.
it very strange how much you know about those false preachings, maybe it would be a good idea for you to start preaching the truth and lead people to Christ rather than be a critic on side… your voice should be utilised to bring people to Christ rather than worry about those who have already made a decision to listen to someone who they believe is hearing from God