Tags
altar call, c3, c3 church, c3 global, c3 oxford falls, C3i, C3OF, ccc, ccc global, cccof, cult, cults, deceptive, gospel, manipulative, Paul Washer, Washer, wrong
Paul Washer describes C3 Church pretty well with the tactics they use to bring people forward for altar calls. He labels churches that use such tactics as cults, manipulative, wrong and deceptive. He says they have nothing to do with the ministry of Christ and His apostles.
“So you draw the net and get people to come forward. Now look at how they do this.
Music. It must play a role because they always make sure they got the right music. That must play a role. Some even dim the lights. Lighting’s important…
Tell me that doesn’t happen. It does. Everywhere.
That’s a cult. That’s manipulation. And I am going to call it exactly what it is. It’s wrong. It’s sin. It’s deceptive. And it has nothing to do with the ministry of Jesus Christ at all or the Apostles. ” – Paul Washer, The Danger of Altar Calls Paul Washer Legacy Conference 2010: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LTwfIuU9gw, (00:00-01:13), (Uploaded September 14, 2010), Accessed 10/2/11)
“Tell me that doesn’t happen. It does. Everywhere.” It doesn’t happen at a Reformed Baptist Church, nor at an Anglican or Catholic Church. In fact, it doesn’t happen at the vast majority of Christian churches around the World. Paul Washer makes a blanket statement that is plain wrong.
I don’t think much of Phil Pringle, and I also don’t have a very high opinion of Paul Washer with his fake tears and ‘shocking message’.
“It doesn’t happen at a Reformed Baptist Church, nor at an Anglican or Catholic Church”
uhhh thats….because…….they dont do……alter……calls (thats kinda the point…..) – he’s talking about the modern aberrant seeker sensitive movement …..and they ALL DO practice the psuedo sacrament of alter (psycho-manipulation) calls
“I also don’t have a very high opinion of Paul Washer with his fake tears and ‘shocking message”
Yep…… the message of repentance and faith and the lawful use of the law (as demonstrated by Washer in that message) to bring a person broken and on their knees to the foot of Calvary’s cross has never been a big hit with the unregenerate….it has been well said that “they that are in health have no need of a physician” (according to God at least……)
Altar calls can be a good thing where people go forward for prayer. People can be prayed for and the altar can be a place where people wait on the Holy Spirit to minister to them. There are limits to what teaching and preaching can achieve in people’s lives. Sure, the Word brings changes in our lives but we also need the Holy Spirit and that requires stopping and spending time in His Presence while He does only what He can do in our lives. The altar can be a place for this to happen.
There is a lot of manipulation and brainwashing at this church. I went there a couple months and saw right thru it. there DNA classes are to brainwash as well. I am so glad others are seeing the dangers of this place. the person I love is sucked into it and completely brainwashed by them. any advice? This person means the world to me and doesn’t deserve this.
Anonymous, my advice…for what it’s worth: know and love the Scriptures; pray without ceasing (or like me, as often as you can remember) to our Almighty God who is a truly gracious and kind Saviour; nourish your soul with great sermons (mljtrust.org or sermonaudio.com) and hang with some Bible-loving, God-fearing believers who will also pray for you and support you as you support your loved one. There are a few nice ones here. Be patient. Don’t give up hope, as Christ’s love shines from you into this person’s life. God has his own timing, and in my experience it is never my timing, so it probably won’t be yours either!! May the Lord bless you as you seek his truth.🙂 Sherryn
I thought we were moving away from the Satanist claims? Unless Phil Pringle actually teaches Satanism, I don’t think its a valid claim to make and undermines the credibility of this website.
Lets focus on what he has actually said and who he chooses to associate with.
The c3 pastor jurgan is much more manipulative. I have never noticed anything satanic though. the majority of the members are late teens early 20s. the impressionable age. and he tells them a bunch of bogus stuff like you have to do this and this to show you love God. and that the purpose of money is to give to your church so it can grow and spread the word of God. and God likes it when you go to both services . and of course the bs prophesies . they use fear and false hope to manipulate these people.
Sorry anonymous, my post was in response to a post that has rightly been deleted. Jurgen keeps getting mentioned. Did you used to go to C3 San Diego?
Yes. there big on getting money out of people.
Jurgen was the youth pastor at C3 Oxford Falls before moving to start C3 San Diego.
I recently just had an argument about a friend about Paul Washer. In the bible it says, as long as we truly believe that Jesus Died on the Cross for our sins and we will have eternal life.
He states that Paul Washer said, “That was false” Nowadays I do know people take Repentance for granted but my friend believes that even if you believe that Jesus Died on the cross for your sins, you can’t go to heaven because you need to be holy to go to heaven.
What do you think people? From listening to Paul Washer, I do not like his sermon, I feel like he tends to be judgmental to all churches.
Yes its a sin because they are not doing it for the right reasons. c3 sd they try and push you down when the pastor prays off you and gives you a bs prophecy. and then gets irritated when you don’t fall down cuz it makes him look like a fool. yes they are very deceptive. they are a business disguised as a church. Its. never about helping others its always about helping the pastor and you. Telling someone you had a hard life you’ve had good times but he’s also had more than your share of bad times start times but now you’re starting to come from the darkness into the light you deserve for so long there’s been significant other in your life I feel she may be older than you it’s been a difficult relationship but you want a great deal from it you’re very patient when you need to be but when your patience is exhausted you can to feeling normal stress you’re at also an extremely loving
You’re very patient when you need to be but when your patience is exhausted you tend to feel normal stressed for also extremely loving person which sometimes makes your life spring have your to bear because you’re really appreciated as much as you should be. in fact no one not even your closest friends truly understand how much you’ve suffered. that is a fake prophecy that people hear and automatically think wow this guy is the real deal. anyone can come up with that stuff especially when there trying to reel in new people to squeeze money out of
If anything, I feel like John piper, Tim Keller. is more loving towards people comparing to Paul Washer. We’re supposed to be loving even when we want to share the gospel to other people. We’re not supposed to make them fear God, because that will make them turn away, if try scaring non believers.
So you’re saying that salvation by Christ alone is reliant on whether a man said the right words exactly how it should have been said? I guess it has nothing to do with God drawing the person, Christ covering their sins and the Holy Spirit regenerating them and constantly perfecting them. It has more so to do with making sure we don’t give off a vibe that God should be feared…..
We need to be tactful when sharing the gospel. However, sometimes tact doesn’t work. I did not used to be a fan of fire and brimstone preaching until someone pointed out to me that if I saw a wild lion at the end of the street, I would probably make a scene.
We need to read the times. When people are weak, broken and aware of their sins – then we must minister compassionately. When people are proud and arrogant – then preaching like the prophets and evangelists of old would generally be the correct approach.
Wow they are leading all peoples to Jesus, but in particular the dry, older style of teaching has not reached the youth and they are falling away in droves from the traditional forms of preaching. If we do not have different styles of reaching out, ensuring all preaching is word based, then we don’t have Christianity in the decades to come. Remember Jesus was a radical in his time.
Brainwashed? Even the young can think for themselves, don’t underestimate the power of youth.!!
Keep the unity in the church -as our outside emnities are a force to reckon with. We do not need the criticism from within but uplifting and support for all denominations that spread the word of our Lord Jesus.
God Bless
Callforreason
I agree that we need less division within the body of Christ.
However the sad point is that C3 is NOT part of the body of Christ.
I remember as a young Christian being puzzled by some of the warnings that Jesus gave, about people doing things in his name without being Christians. Not getting things a little wrong, but to the extent that Jesus would banish them for their deception. I would think, but why would this happen? Why would somebody who is not a Christian, not just pretend to be one, but pretend to do so many things in Jesus name?
Sadly, when I reflect back on my time in C3, all these thing become clear.
In a society that is still mostly accustomed to seeing Christianity, C3 uses a façade of Christianity to cover what they are actually doing. They use all the “right” Christian words, symbolism and practices, twisted to their own ends, to ensnare people and expand their reach. The more you look, the more you realise there is no Christianity underlying what they do. Their façade is made all the more credible because they draw good people to them. Most of the members ARE people that believe in Jesus and who want to love and serve him. In many cases, existing Churches founded to worship Jesus have been usurped and roped into the C3 Cult.
Unfortunately there are too many Christians who do not want to listen to words spoken against anybody CLAIMING to be a fellow Christian. Yet Jesus himself warned us that these people would come, and he told us to assess them by their fruits.
If you don’t believe that C3 is a cult, please do this simple test for yourself: Read Acts, make a list of all the things you would expect to see in a New testament Church. Then look at C3 and see how many you tick off? Now consider a Cult, make a list of the things you commonly see in Cults, and again tick these off against C3. Now, which list has more ticks?
We seriously need to rethink the so-called “the Great Comission” emphasis and pet verse of the evangelicals. It was about making disciples who could stand on their own two feet complete in Christ and not forever filling their diapers. The emphasis was never to go out and make scalps for Jesus which are considered Christians after going through the repeat after me ritual of the sinners prayer. That’s not much different than tossing a little water on an infant and then calling them Christians after going through that ritual. But let’s take it one step further… Ephesians 4 says the entire point of those in ministry is to help edify and bring to maturity the others so that they too would be able to minister. Hmmm… minister to whom? Minister within the body? Stop for a moment and consider how many times the all-important great commission text is repeated and referred to in the rest of the Gospels? Often Jesus’ other words are referered back to but how many times the great comission text? Do we have examples of the apostles using it to whip up the city congregations to go out and evangelize or do they ever praise them for doing a good job at it? What do we find written? (consider Col. 1– whose ministry, tense past of future fulfillment?)
typeo/// meant to write: Stop for a moment and consider how many times the all-important great commission text is repeated and referred to in the rest of the Epistles?
Does he ever use Scripture? Does he ever use Devine Truth? Don’t tell me he only throws comments and opninion? oh,.. wait … he does.
I’m at C3 since a long time and do have points as well that I think aren’t as they should be. But what you’re doing, morely bending the truth, isn’t the right way neither. I hope you’ve learned that by now.
You’re saying that Paul Washer only teaches opinions and never uses Scripture? Have you ever actually listened to anything from him, or is this one excerpt the only thing you’ve encountered? If you really think this, you have no idea who Paul Washer is and what he believes. More so, you’ve never had a conversation with a Reformed brother in Christ.
@ Lenn – a little scripture for you. And this message could apply to C3…
I have found Paul Washer’s sermons to be wonderuflly challenging. This isn’t meant to be an easy walk. We are to take up our cross and follow in Christ’s footsteps. It’s really hard. It take enormous sacrifice. I agree with Paul Washer, Jc Ryle, Charles Spurgeon and the other men of God who through the inspiration of the Holy Spirit are preaching the Gospel we all need to hear…especially our young people. They may not heed it, they may rebel against it, but they are without excuse if the Word has been preached faithfully to them.
I pray that there will still be courageous men like Paul Washer and others to preach hellfire and brimstone to my kids when they are teenagers. Not all the time, but at least sometimes. It will give me a break from it!🙂 Even my 9 year old can tell when a sermon is the “mum, is this one of those guys that just preaches about himself” type. At 9, he has a love for God’s word, and for Christ-centred sermons. If that changes it won’t be the church’s fault, it will be his own sinful rebellion. Giving him less of Christ and more rock and roll won’t fix that.
Knowing how rebellious I was when I was younger (and me a missionary/preacher’s kid who had heard the gospel since the day I was born), I can’t see how pandering to the worldly desires of young people is going to bring more of them into a saving faith in Christ. I wish people in my church had loved me enough, with Christ-like love, to call me out over my sin, to chastise me lovingly, and to disciple me into to a more mature faith. But they tried so hard to be relevant that I could no longer see any difference between them and the world. So into the world I went, with devastating consequences. Surely we need less of the world in our churches, not more.
And as CD says, C3 , Hillsong and similar organisations are not Christian churches. They do not preach Christian doctrine, but rather teach many things in direct contradiction to the Scriptures. This is merely a statemnt of fact through listening to their sermons, reading their books and observing their practices, then comapring them with the whole counsel of God. I can only assume there is a pragmatic (i.e. financial, recruitment etc) motivation for retaining the Christian connection. They would be more than welcome to rename themselves something else. It would save a lot of confusion and reduce the need for blogs like this one.
In fact, as true Christianity grows increasingly unpalatable to the masses, I pray that groups such as C3 will either repent and join the Body of Christ, or continue to openly distance themselves from historic, biblical Christianity. In the meantime, let’s keep praying that the Lord in his mercy will continue to save souls out of these churches…indeed out of all false churches and religions.
Um, so…that’s my short answer. Blessings to you all this week, CW and the regular crew.
There is nothing wrong or against the teachings of the Lord when a church has altar calls, if they are moving in the holy Spirit. I feel Paul is only trying to be subversive in his comments to most other churches that he personally feels are not measuring up to his standards. How does this person set those standards? Is this one man’s opinion vs others who see nothing wrong with altar calls.
@ HA Jahnke
The issue with CS, HIllsong and many other ‘churches’ is that they preach a false gospel, not Biblical Christianity. Therefore, any altar call is calling people to accepting a false Jesus, a false version of the Christian life, and even a false spirit. It also encourages an emotional response in a moment of the flesh, not of the Spirit. I have no doubt that people have been genuinely saved from such an experience (or perhaps in spite of it), but in those movements preaching blatantly false doctrine, the altar call, whether one agrees with it as a strategy or not, is virtually worthless. That is my concern, and no doubt Paul Washer’s as well. Obviously if you believe that C3 and HIllsong preach Biblical Christianity then we will not find ourselves in agreement.
In a more general sense, I definitely see a place for people to be invited to speak to someone (preferably a mature Christian) after a sermon or evangelistic event, or in the following period of time, if they have been moved by the Holy Spirit to respond to the preaching of the Word. Surely this can be done without fanfare, emotional appeals or public ‘commitments’? I believe Paul Washer and many others’ concern is the number of false converts such public ‘altar calls’ produce. To me it is a terrible thing to have someone believe they are saved, when they in fact are not. It is certainly something all churches would do well to be mindful of if they choose to use such methods.
Sherryn
I have a problem with wolves in sheeps clothing. When a so called minister Paul Washer, bashes another church that tells me he has something to hide himself. I am not in favor of the business atmosphere C3 moves with yet if your not into this type of church then you move on, you don’t need to go to you tube and bash other churches.
HA Jahnke,
I am glad that you have a problem with wolves in sheep’s clothing, and certainly Paul Washer should be scrutinised against the Word of God as closely as any other pastor. However, C3 is not just guilty of using worldy business practices to grow their ‘church’ but are actually preaching utterly false doctrine. That is the charge against them… heresy, not just the use of questionable church growth methods!
If you wind the clock back to the days of the great evangelical revivals, (from the time of the Wesley’s, through Booth, and the Welsh Revival too,) you would attend meetings where the conviction of the Holy Spirit on the sinners was so strong, that they would come running out to the front uninvited – without the so called ‘altar call’.
God was dealing with them over their lost and sinful state, and once the message had been delivered, man was put to one side, while the Spirit of God took centre stage, in conviction. People would be weeping and confessing their sins to God, and finding forgiveness in the Saviour, through the Gospel.
While this may not have been the norm for all churches back then, it certainly was the norm for many. When the word of God is preached with power, there are signs following – but the greatest sign/miracle of all is that of true repentance and a changed life – that is entirely a work of grace, and it is undeniable.
Altar calls nowadays have become a means of competition between the various preachers who employ the method – “who’s got the most people out the front?” seems to be the issue, rather than who has been genuinely been saved.
God has no time for such games or childishness in this regard, and yes, it is entirely possible that many may not respond to an altar call at all, but would be quite happy to seek the Lord in private as TNP said – no problem with that approach either…
In the modern backslidden churches, the atmosphere has been manufactured in many cases, and so the “results” will tend to be manufactured as well…