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THE PRESENCE PLATTER OF RESOURCES
This article will look at the Presence Conference 2012 speaker line-up at the Presence Conference website (Phil Pringle, Steven Furtick, Kong Hee, John Bevere). Consider this article as a platter of resources, that can allow people to look at the speakers themselves.
We regret writing so harshly on the speakers. However, the purpose of this article is to warn Christians in love about these men and the dangers of the Presence Conference 2012. Unfortunately, every invited speaker has revealed they are both heretical and dishonest to say the least.
Pringle says on his Presence Conference website,
“BE CLEANSED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT AND LET A POWER COME UPON YOU THAT WILL CHANGE THIS WORLD”
You will never forget a Presence Conference with Phil Pringle. His sessions on miracles, anointing, vision and freedom are life changing. Phil is the author of 10 books, a speaker, television host, successful artist and President of C3 Global, an international network of nearly 400 churches. He is the Senior Minister of one of Australia’s fastest growing churches, C3 Church and he has spent over 30 years pastoring and equiping hundreds of ministers to plant churches around the world. Phil has seen powerful moves of God and the glory of God filling the atmosphere.
We have made it clear in the past that Phil Pringle is a prosperity preacher and connected to the heretic Kenneth Copeland.
Phil Pringle Is A Prosperity Teacher
Phil Pringle And Kenneth Copeland
Just like famous heretics Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Hagin, Jess Duplantis, Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland (ministers Pringle likes to be associated with), Pringle also teaches that Jesus went to hell and suggests that Jesus lost his divinity on the cross.
Jesus & The Easter Story According to Pringle
Pringle also manipulates church statistics and words to convince people he is a legitimate Christian minister and to convince Christians to give him money. He’s also convinced people he has churches that aren’t even part of C3 yet and worse – don’t even exist.
“Let Me Just Talk To You Out Of A Scripture” – Pringle’s Use of John 3:16
He’s made claims that he oversees 1,200 C3 churches or around 500 C3 churches. His website still says he runs 258 churches or oversees around 300. The above blurb says he now has 400 churches. Is Phil Pringle lying to convince anyone to come to his Presence 2012 Conference? You decide.
Is Phil Pringle A Deceitful Schemer?
We have again and again put forth evidence to clearly show his incompetence in rightly handling the holy scriptures.
Bill Palmers Review On Phil Pringle’s Book, Keys To Financial Excellence
Pringle Believes It’s Gods Will That Jesus Died To Make Believers Rich
Pringle’s ‘Financial Excellence’ Bible Study Notes, Exposed
Pringle’s ‘Get Ready For God’ Bible Study Notes, Exposed
Pringle Twisting Scripture Again To Get Money
Phil Pringle Financially Fooling & Fleecing People (Part 1)
Phil Pringle Financially Fooling & Fleecing People (Part 2)
Chris Rosebrough Critiquing Phil Pringle At C3 San Diego (12/02/2012)
“Phil Pringle Is A Twit” Says Pastor Charmley
We have also demonstrated how his teachings and philosophies are similar to New Age / New Thought and occult teachings.
The ‘Secret’ to Phil Pringle’s Doctrine of ‘Faith’
We’ve revealed his scheming abilities to exploit people financially and use the church and the word of God to elevate himself…
Is Phil Pringle Your ‘Elijah’?
Does Phil Pringle & The C3 Movement Exploit Its Poor Members Financially?
… and we have revealed scandalous-like behaviour within his movement…
C3 Oxford Falls Papania Scandal? (Part 1)
C3 Balmain Scandal? (Part 1)
C3 Canberra Scandal? (Part 1)
C3 Whitehorse Scandal? (Part1)
… and have observed Pringle using the church as a business tool to sell his paintings and merchandise (more will be written about this). He also reveals his motivation to get other Christians and their churches to join his movement.
Is Phil Pringle Baiting Christianity With His Presence Conference For His Gain?
Finally, we have faithfully demonstrated his ability to twist words and scriptures to convince Christians to BUY their miracles from God at His miracle offerings.
Phil Pringle’s Fleece-A-Thon At Presence Conference 2011
You can see that Pringle has schemed people in the past to pay for HIS Presence Conference costs via entry fee and ‘free-will’ miracle offering.
Phil Pringle’s Fleece-A-Thon At Presence Conference 2009
Phil Pringle’s Fleece-A-Thon At Presence Conference 2010
And we know that he uses services in a way to get people to give out of their emotions, not their reason.
C3 Leader: Move Away From The “Emotional Moment Of A Service” To Give Money
In his own words, Christians must “distrust those who flatter us” as he continually markets and flatters vulnerable Christians be involved in his Presence Conference 2012.
One has to wonder not only what he will preach on this year but what type of speakers he has invited to his conference this year.
The C3 Website has a photo of Steven Furtick with a quote next to his face. How can Furtick supposedly state “There is a lost, hurting, broken dying, desperate, sorry world without Christ”, when he himself abuses Christians, sensors the gospel and elevates himself to some type of messianic figure?
If Steve Furtick is indeed saying this, he needs to explain his track record of bad behaviour and appalling teaching. Why does he openly condemn Christians who want to know Jesus? Why did he sensor the gospel at his 2012 Code Orange Revival?
Phil Pringle Endorsing Problematic Steve Furtick for Presence Conference 2012
If Christ is so important, then why does he say the church is the answer and not Christ? If the church is the answer, then why does he say that his church is not for people who want to know Jesus? Why was he hostile against the gospel at his revival by sensoring it? If Christ is important at all, why did Furtick cheer Perry Noble on for promoting him as Messiah?
Noble Preaches Furtick Is Messiah While Pringle Prepares Presence For Furtick
It’s disturbing that Phil Pringle is STILL endorsing Steve Furtick to give him the platform to thousands of Australian Christians. Long-term critic of Steve Furtick, Chris Rosebrough has labeled Steve Furtick and Elevation Church a cult.
Chris Rosebrough Labels Steve Furtick’s Church A Cult
Rosebrough also received a personal letter from a member of Steve Furtick’s Elevation Church. They seem to agree with Rosebrough’s assessmnet of Furtick’s church.
Follower of Furtick Says They Were “Consistently Ingesting Spiritual Poison”
After examining the articles that C3ChurchWtach have written, it becomes quite apparent that Furtick is not telling the truth. If you examine the evidence that Rosebrough puts before you, it’s easy to come to the same conclusion – Steve Furtick is not a truthful minister. In fact, it is safe to say that Steven Furtick is creating a
It should be made known that Kong Hee has been exposed in his country as an alleged plagiarist. This was the blog that exposed Kong Hee,
Here are some articles that examine the issues in regard to the supposed plagiarised works.
Plagiarism: Pastor Kong Hee’s Publisher Explains It’s “Oversight”
As ‘Transitioning’ points out, Kong Hee’s publisher has many loopholes in their explanation and says Kong Hee’s “alleged plagiarism issue is no big deal now compared to the CAD probe into CHC’s financial affairs”. This latter issue still seems to be ongoing, Phil Pringle helping in KH’s effort to support his ministry.
In spite of all this, the people Kong Hee endorses are issues themselves (Steve Munsey, John Avanzini, Yonngi Cho, etc).
His use of scripture in his sermons are manipulative and misleading at best, sprinkled with heresy, pagan philosophies and vain imaginings. Kong Hee has proven to be a faithful disciple under Pringle’s prophetic direction and is just as ruthless exploiting those in his church that are unemployed like Pringle.
With this background knowledge, why is Phil Pringle inviting the cult-like leader Kong Hee to speak at this years Presence Conference? He is not faithful to scripture, faithful to the church, faithful to the poor or faithful to the community. Hee is continually misrepresenting Jesus for worldly reasons.
This brings up an important issue regarding Hee’s wife. Kong Hee loves his wife Sun Hee (and fellow pastor at his church).
He has stated to his church that “Sun is my wisdom“.
After much deliberation on what to write about Sun Hee we’ve finally concluded that you can decide for yourself by watching her music video ‘China Wine’. (She is the female singer of this video clip (00:20).)
(Edit 18/04/2012: Kong Hee justified his wife’s role and played down the intelligence of pastors who criticised them both:
“I think the struggle many pastors have is the difficulty to separate her association with me (as a pastor’ wife) and her career as a singer. I agree that if she is a “pastor” or “preacher,” perhaps the video would have been inappropriate. But Sun is not a pastor…
Some [Pastors] said she was promoting free sex and immorality. But any intelligent, objective viewer would know that the whole drama is not about sex; if anything, it portrays the reality of a fallen secular world…”
After examining Kong Hee, his wife and his controversial ministry, one must ask: What kind of message will Kong Hee bring to Presence Conference?
C3 seems to suggest that Bevere said, “We need men and women who will speak the word of his grace. The word of his power and bring change.” They also mention his books,
“(The Bait of Satan, Drawing Near, Driven by Eternity, The Fear of the Lord and others)”
It’s odd they didn’t mention this ‘grace’ preachers book, “Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing” (2007). The book title says it all; how can you attract (earn) the favor (grace) of God on your life? It’s odd he says we need men and women who “speak the word of his grace” but promotes the exact opposite in his mentioned book.
We’ve discussed Bevere’s doctrine of tithing and his belief that if you submit to leaders like himself, God will make you rich and receive double portions of God’s Spirit. Read it here:
What’s So Severe About Bevere?
While it is good to biblically submit to Godly authorities, Bevere confuses it and delivers a burden-binding ‘gospel’ message. While his book seems to promote a lot of truth, there are concerns that should be bought to light on his false gospel of salvation-by-submission.
To preach the message of the gospel is the central mission of the church for all people to hear and know about Christ crucified. If anything contrary is added to the gospel or any truth taken away from it, then one must question the legitimate authority of that teacher, prophet or shepherd.
But we can safely say the hidden gnostic principle on ‘honor’, (John Bevere says he has discovered), has made him deviate from the central gospel of salvation.
“I didn’t understand the honor principle. I was in the process of learning. Now I want everyone to know!” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 37.
To make matters worse, Bevere reveals he is a word of faith teacher by stating On page 102,
“Simply put, the promises of God are not automatic; they must be acquired by faith.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 102.
What else are we meant to gain if Christ has already “blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing” (Eph 1:3)? What else are we to acquire if we are told to “count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus” (Phil 3:8). What are we to gain that we haven’t gained already?
We will see Bevere is promoting himself, his authority and his gospel of works-by-faith. Paul, in imitating Christ’s authoritative nature (Philippians 2:5-11), uses his Godly apostolic authority in this way towards the Thessalonians (emphasis mine).
“… Nor did we seek glory from men, either from you or from others, even though as apostles of Christ we might have asserted our authority” Thes 2:6
And as Jesus said (our highest authority),
“Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me.” John 8:54
A quick reading of John Bevere’s book gives a strong impression that Bevere is lacking in humility and loves to be recognised by the world (pg. 34-35, 36, 45). He’s bold enough to claim,
“I learned that day it had nothing to do with me but how I am received as one sent by God. The prisoners valued, honored, esteemed me. The church members said with their body language, “We’ve heard it all. We’ve heard it all. We’ve heard many guest ministers; what do you have to say that’s any different?” The vast difference of results stemmed from one word-honor.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 38.
So Bevere likes to be honored. Like this?
“Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes, and love respectful greetings in the market places, and chief seats in the synagogues and places of honor at banquets,” Luke 20:46
His message through out the book is that God CANNOT bless or favour you unless you earn it through submitting to leaders like himself. Convinced about his faith-by-works message, Bevere shows hostility to Christians who do not submit to church leaders. He attacks biblical reason by convincing Christians that they,”are a people trying to understand Kingdom principles with a democratic mindset.” (Pg. 44.) In saying that the democratic mindset is the problem, he leads us to believe that the honor principle, (which he believes is the key kingdom principle), is the solution to earning God’s grace and blessing. (That’s what this whole book is about.)
“The kingdom of God is not a democracy. So if we relate to God with a democratic mindset we will not connect with Him. We will be without the protection of His authority and can be easily misled. Could this be why Jesus said so many in our generation would be deceived?” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 44.
He is saying that the kingdom of God is not characterised by equality. Furthermore, if we relate to God with a mindset of being equal with one another or approach the kingdom of God with a democratic mindset, Bevere says we cannot connect with God. What is the alternative of being democratic that Bevere is insinuating? Dictatorship? Thou-shalt-not-question-me?
Has Bevere not read Paul say the following?
“On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other.” 1Corinthians 12:22-25
Bevere is also insinuating that Jesus says that many will be deceived by this faulty democratic thinking in regards to the kingdom of God.
No John. People become deceived by following false teachers, leaders and self-proclaiming prophets (pg. 37) like yourself with your false gospel of works. The gospel saves the simpleton. And Christ is the protector of His disciples (John 17:12) and the guardian and true shepherd of His sheep (Psalm 23, John 10). Those who don’t want Jesus chase after false ministers like yourself.
Observe how prejudice and hostile Bevere gets towards Christians who prefer house churches,
“This Western mind-set is the cause for most church splits in America, and why so many people are resorting to home churches. These professing believers do not want to be under the authority established by Jesus Christ Himself.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 45.
Professing believers? Why is he implying they are not under the authority and lordship of Jesus Himself, or even saved? Why is he alluding to them being the ones causing division? Is Bevere not acting as judge concerning trivial things (Colossians 2).
Only those who do no Only those peddling a false gospel with false doctrines based on the traditions of men are causing division. Bevere claims “They lack true New Testament government and accountability” (pg. 45). New Testament government? Like a dictatorship? After all, he’s not teaching about a kingdom based on 1 Corinthians 12. His attack on Christians continue,
“… you find many believers who have been hurt or offended and are therefore disillusioned with church structure. They’ve resorted to home churches in order to live without accountability.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 45.
The proof of his false teaching is constant throughout his book, deviating from scripture and replacing words in scripture with the word ‘honor’ to support the teachings in his book. (eg. replacing words like blessing, time, praise, esteem, submit with honor). This is not how you treat the teachings of God. This ‘man of grace’ starts attacking the gospel of grace. Bevere says,
“There are three benefits for honoring these [abusive] leaders. First, if treated unfairly, our obedience to submit puts our case in the hands of God who will judge justly (see Pet. 2:21-23). If we take matters into our own hands, God steps back and we are on our own, a miserable place to be.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 58.
What does he mean if we react to bad leadership that “God steps back and we are on our own”? What do we do if we are obedient to bad leadership? Why should we be called to submit to bad leadership? Bevere explains,
“Why are we called to do this? To position ourselves to receive a blessing (reward). So when you are mistreated, especially by someone in authority, you can get very excited because you are being set up for a reward.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 58.
Once again, aren’t we already blessed with every spiritual blessing in Christ? If we aren’t seeking this blessing in submission, does that mean we are not saved? Is Bevere implying we can lose our salvation since he blurs the lines, scriptures, definitions and contexts? If anyone critiques Bevere or has issues with him speaking at Presence Conference (or any leader speaking at the event), would he even consider them Christian or saved? Bevere makes this claim,
“If you are truly born of the Spirit of God, you will recognize and esteem authority. In fact, show me a person who has no regard for authority and I will show you a person who is not a child of God. It doesn’t matter if he’s prayed the sinner’s prayer and goes to church weekly. He who has no honor in his heart is not saved.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 46.
We can conclude that people who suffer from Oppositional Defiance Disorder cannot ever be saved according to Bevere. However we can agree with Bevere on this.
“There is only one time-I repeat, one time-the bible tells us not to obey an authority; and that is when authority tells us to sin (do something contrary to the written Word of God.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 46.
The issue now is who’s authority we need to submit too; Bevere’s authority or God’s authority? Is Bevere confused or is he enticing us to sin by following a gospel contrary to the one the Apostles preached? The bible teaches us that Satan is the god of this age and even he has authority. Wouldn’t that make those who come under his authority false prophets? False teachers? Perverters of God’s Word? Many will claim to come with an authority and a message of authority. But who is teaching the true gospel of Jesus Christ? The point we’re trying to make is the same point Paul makes.
“… even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!” Galatians 1:8-9
To imply Bevere wants to see “men and women who will speak the word of his grace” while promoting a different gospel that damns is clearly hypocritical as his ‘honour principle’ is a different gospel (different message). It was Paul that placed an anathema on those who preached a false gospel like the works-based gospel of the false teachers back in the Galatian province. We suggest any reader takes Bevere’s advice and “not… obey [Bevere’s] authority.” How can his authority cannot be from God if Bevere is not honestly representing the God of the bible?
Just like Phil Pringle, Steven Furtick and Kong Hee, John Bevere is another dishonest minister speaking into the lives of thousands of Christians at Phil Pringle’s Presence Conference 2012.
What does Pringle hope Christians will learn from these speakers? The deception is, Pringle thinks he is blessing local churches. What will this mean for the churches around Australia?
Gary macDougall said:
Here is an excerpt from the link above:-
“A THEOLOGICAL DEFINITION OF “CULT” MUST BE BASED ON A STANDARD OF CHRISTIAN ORTHODOXY. USING THE BIBLE’S TEACHING AS A FOCAL POINT. A CULT IS ANY RELIGIOUS GROUP THAT CLAIMS TO BE CHRISTIAN (OR MAY NOT BE) IS DISTINCT AND HAS DOCTRINES AND PRACTICES THAT CONTRADICT THOSE OF THE SCRIPTURES AS INTERPRETED BY ORTHODOX CHRISTIANITY. THOSE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN UPHELD IN HISTORIC CHRISTIANITY .
ORTHODOXY IS REPRESENTED FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE CHURCH, AND IS EXPRESSED IN STATEMENTS SUCH AS THE APOSTLES CREED WHICH ARE DENIED . THEY WILL DENY THE BIBLE AS THE COMPLETE BOOK OF REVELATION AND OUR GUIDE TO KNOWING GOD. THEY WILL DISTORT THE CENTRAL MESSAGE OF THE SCRIPTURES AS CHRIST BEING THE SAVIOR ALONE. THEY WILL DENY HIS DEITY AND DISTORT HIS NATURE. THEY FORM THEIR GROUP AROUND A SINGLE PERSONS INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURE, OR CHRIST USUALLY BY A NEW REVELATION. THEY REMOVE THEMSELVES FROM THE LARGER BODY AND OPERATE AUTONOMOUSLY. A CULT IS ORGANIZED HERESY. THEY WILL DISTORT ONE OR MORE OF THE FUNDAMENTALS.
Walter Martin described a cult like this: “as a group of people gathered about a specific persons interpretation of the bible… from a theological view point, the cults contain not only a few major deviations from historic Christianity. They paradoxically, they continue to insist that they are entitled to be classified as Christians.” (Kingdom of the cults p.11)
In his book The New Cults, Walter Martin defines a cult as “a group religious in nature which surrounds a leader, or a group which either denies or misinterprets essential biblical doctrines.”
This part seems to be very relevant …”HAS DOCTRINES AND PRACTICES THAT CONTRADICT THOSE OF THE SCRIPTURES AS INTERPRETED BY ORTHODOX CHRISTIANITY. THOSE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN UPHELD IN HISTORIC CHRISTIANITY .”
Pimpery is contradictory to the Bible. paul the apostle was not a lying, conning pimp.
Walter Martin seems to be talking about C3 in his definition.
Wow, Gary, ranting much?
Kasey Smith said:
you can rot in hell you stupid fool (blogger). It is very clear to me that these conferences are biblically sound and based. if you want to keep on slamming christians and the church of God then you will pay the ultimate price for it at judgment day. I believe you will burn if u don’t repent of your ways.
“It is very clear to me that these conferences are biblically sound and based.”
Oh, so it’s very clear to *you* ? I’m glad we got that straightened out, then.
You may wish to inform the Holy Spirit so He can be on the same page as you are (good luck with that).
@ Kasey – is this how we speak to one another as Christians? Does your bible, like mine, call on you to test all things, to be like the Bereans, who were commended by the Apostle Paul, for checking every thing he said against the scriptures?
Christ has paid the ultimate price for us as Christians, a price that assures us that we will never “rot in hell”. A precious salvation, a free gift, never to be lost.
@ Kasey – if we are guilty of anything (and I’m sure we are – I know I sin daily & sin much!), if we are guilty of anything, let it be because we compare what people are saying about the Word of God in the name of God – that we study and show ourselves approved.
That, just as 2 Timothy 2;15 says ” Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who has no need to be ashamed, rightly handling the word of truth.”
Berean – sure Kasey’s comment was harsh, but no worse than Gary’s comments. Why not have words with him too?
I also find it interesting that you refer to Kasey as a Christian. I thought, according to Jake, that people who side with Pringle, are not Christian.
@ Dougie – good point. First things first – just because I don’t side with Phil Pringle doesn’t mean I can say he’s not a Christian.
Along the lines of Charles Spurgeon on identifying the “elect”, we don’t carry a mark to say whether we ARE the elect or not.
Dougie, I would ask the question, “how do we identify false teachers/prophets?” What is required of us to test Phil Pringle, and does he pass the test? I would say NO – one strike and you’re out when it comes prophecy. False teaching? Yes, his sermons are replete with dreadful eisegesis, it doesn’t take very much bible study to see that. And it’s our responsibility to test all things.
Gary’s comments? I would love to see him tone them down. It does nothing for the sake of Truth to allow today’s culture to determine our language.
BUT we have a problem, yesterday I watched Chris Pringle’s session at Presence 2012 – she was crass, vulgar and behaved provocatively with the young sound guy. She used the ‘c..p’ word at least twice. Now I’m not uptight about life and behaviouir in general, it’s the world we live in, but I do expect men (and unqualified women 1 Tim 2:11-14) to behave with grace and decorum in the “pulpit”.
Titus 2:6-8 “…..in all things show yourself to be an example of good deeds, with purity in doctrine, dignified, sound in speech which is beyond reproach, so that the opponent will be put to shame, having nothing bad to say about us.”
Kasey has self-identified as a Christian (it seems) on his FB wall.
@ Dougie – if I may direct you some to some godly men who handle God’s Word with respect? Read this article, and consider/compare to what is said from a C3 pulpit. Does it measure up? Can you see the difference?
We were once a part of a church that held us entranced, we were sincere, we were sadly, sincerely wrong. It was an outsider who pointed us to such men as these and the Lord, in His sovereignty, opened our eyes and we have since walked away into His amazing grace, no longer “tossed back and forth by every wind of doctrine”.(Ephesians 4:14)
This website is so funny, what you’ve done is you’ve pulled apart everything and mixed it into what you want it to sound like. And you waste so much time listening to this stuff. You say you are warning in love, but you have put yourself in the seat of the judge. Which is sweet if you are the messiah. And then you go and say bad stuff about pastors that speak at this conference. Your church must be amazing and perfect
“This website is so funny, what you’ve done is you’ve pulled apart everything and mixed it into what you want it to sound like.”
C3 “leaders” are so funny, what they’ve done is they’ve pulled apart the Bible and mixed it into what they want it to sound like.
(They preach law rather than grace; interestingly, the part of the law they cherry-pick and twist is the one that nets them a nice income).
Do you know what “projection” is, Courtney?
Are you part of a church?
@ courtney – thanks for coming on and commenting. It’s good to have feedback. Are you open for some questions (not personal)?
@ courtney – on the issue of judging, I understand why you may think that way, that’s exactly how I used to feel. What I was doing, however, what not being “berean” 😉 Some scriptures to consider….
As Christians, we are commanded against following teachers blindly but are told rather to “test everything; hold on to the good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21). The Apostle Peter warns us in 2 Peter 2:1-3 that there will be false teachers in our day just as there were false teachers in his day. Among their false teachings is a denial of the sufficiency of the sacrifice of Christ on the cross to take away sin, which is a common theme among cultists today. Another characteristic of false teachers is the greed which motivates them in everything they do. Paul offers a similar warning to the Ephesian elders in Acts 20:29-31, calling the false teachers “savage wolves” who mercilessly attempt to destroy the faith of the sheep and draw them away from the Shepherd. Paul warned the church continually, pleading with them night and day to be on their guard against such deceivers.
From these passages, we see clearly that we are to distinguish between true and false teachers. How then are we to do that? First, as Paul instructs the Ephesians, we are to “no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming” (Ephesians 4:14). Rather, we are to “become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ” and we do this by “the knowledge of the Son of God” (v. 13). The knowledge of Christ can only be obtained through the Word of God, and it is by that Word that we distinguish between the true and the false.
In Matthew 7:15-20, Jesus offers some critical advice in discerning who is a false prophet: “Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves. By their fruits you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruits you will recognize them.” Plainly stated, is the teacher’s life marked by a progressive conformity to the likeness of Christ? Is the teacher bearing the fruits of the Spirit? Just as only good trees produce good fruit, so do only true teachers of Christ display the fruit of the Spirit—love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control (Galatians 5:22-23), whereas false prophets and teachers display the acts of their sinful natures (Galatians 5:19-21). By these fruits, we recognize true and false teachers.
Second, does the teaching that is being presented conform to the message as proclaimed by the early church and the apostles? As Paul writes to the church in Galatia, “I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!” These are harsh words indeed that Paul has for the false teachers, but eternal condemnation is what they store up for themselves until the day of God’s wrath (Romans 2:5-6).
The Apostle John tells us in his first epistle (1 John 4:1-6) how we are to discern which spirits are from God. “Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world. You, dear children, are from God and have overcome them, because the one who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world. They are from the world and therefore speak from the viewpoint of the world, and the world listens to them. We are from God, and whoever knows God listens to us; but whoever is not from God does not listen to us. This is how we recognize the Spirit of truth and the spirit of falsehood.”
It is of utmost importance that Christians are well grounded in the Scriptures so that they are able to discern which teachers speak from God and which are false in their proclamation. Only then can we reject what is false and “hold on to the good” (1 Thessalonians 5:21).
Sorry didn’t have time to read it all, but I’ve been in c3 in New Zealand for many years and ever since being a part of it my life has been amazing my pastors and my church are encouraging and loving and my life has been super blessed by God. Ps Phil is a really nice guy and he actually cares about people unlike other pastors that seem ‘untouchable’
@ Courtney – take the time to read the scriptures. Sure Phil’s a really nice guy, and cares about people. I’m not being facetious when I say Mormons are really nice, caring people too, however they are deceived.
It’s great that you are encouraged and loved and blessed.And I say this very carefully and respectfully, it’s not necessarily fruit of the Spirit being demonstrated. How do you know unless you test all things?
It’s important to remember not to allow your experiences to determine your scriptural leanings, rather we are to allow the scriptures to interpret our experience.
Jeremiah 17:9 “The heart is more deceitful than all else and is desperately sick;
Who can understand it?”
I read the bible I don’t need to read how your scriptures make Ps Phil and every other pastor that speaks at him church look bad. The new covenant say love God and love others. He also preaches, which is how he serves. Love God and love others, Christianity is that simple! but you make it off putting and weird. When we are called to love other people it’s ALL people so even pastor Phil you need to love, not making a website behind his back, one of you said you know him. Why don’t you ring him and correct him if he’s so false
Gary MacDougall said:
“the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming” (Ephesians 4:14).”
Paganistic easter egg drops from helicopters, light shows, pyschology during meetings,book & DVD expos, art galleries are all deceitful schemes to empty wallets of the sheeple.
When pulpit pimps preach another gospel eg the ‘prosperity gospel’ they function through their own human cunning and craftiness.
@ Courtney – you say “Why don’t you ring him and correct him if he’s so false?”
We did, however we did not ring, it was face to face, privately and biblically. It was not to “correct” but rather to express concerns that a true gospel of repentance and faith in the redeeming work of Christ was not being preached.
Using scriptures (out of context) to make people feel good about themselves , is not the gospel.
Ps Phil “prophecys” about a coming “revival”, in one respect, he is right but what we are seeing is revival of emotionalism, but not the true knowledge of God. The church today is more guided by feelings than by biblical convictions.
People today value enthusiasm more than informed faith and commitment. Emotions are not wrong, but they must be guided by a truly biblically-oriented faith.
Sermons need to target people’s thinking as much as their wills and feelings. Certainly we do not want a church absent of emotion and feelings, but such must be guided by sound thinking.
Something to consider in light of major biblical illiteracy today………
“The primary concern of many today is: “What does this passage say to me?” But such a question is only legitimate if first we ask, “What does this passage say? What did it say and mean to its original hearers”? And then, once we are sure of that, “What does it say to us.?”
We often hear it said in church that we don’t want a discussion to get too theological, we want to keep it practical, as though good practice did not require careful thought to direct it.
Remember, it was Jesus who said, “And He said to him, “‘YOU SHALL LOVE THE LORD YOUR GOD WITH ALL YOUR HEART, AND WITH ALL YOUR SOUL, AND WITH ALL YOUR MIND.’ Note the final focus, “with all your mind.”
It’s not up to church with the way we live out Christian lives and It’s not up to church to have us feel convicted. The way we live our lives is our choice entirely, our conviction come from reading the word, church is there to provide encouragement and empowerment and to rejoice with fellow members of the congregation. If I brought a non-christian friend to church and the pastor spoke a whole sermon of death and not speaking about the life (that we have in Christ) they will not want to come back. And I’m not saying every message needs to be about a fun and pretty happy life but one that will encourage us in our trials and backed up in scripture. We have 3 hours a week in church to connect and share then the rest of the week is up to us to get the word and keep our faith alive. You make Christianity seem like it’s really hard when it is so simple, the only thing that is hard is for people to let go of their old life and pick up the Jesus has prepared for them, and that is our own choice the church can’t force that on anyone
“You make Christianity seem like it’s really hard when it is so simple”
I think you’ll find that what we’re revealing is that the truth of Christ is really simple but is being disregarded or made useless and complicated by C3.
Dude you spend way to much time on this website and pulling apart this church. If you go into a message thinking that’s incorrect then you can pick anything to be wrong with it, which is exactly what I’ve done with your website. Going in thinking well this ought to be ridiculous.
Since ‘m so miss lead would you mind point out a few churches that are perfect so I can sort my life out,?
“If you go into a message thinking that’s incorrect then you can pick anything to be wrong with it, which is exactly what I’ve done with your website”
If you want to criticise this website, I give you the right to do so. Just back up your claims with scriptures and we’ll be happy to look at your claims. If something is misquoted, tell us and we will examine your claim. We are not afraid to take back statements.
@ Courtney – you say “If I brought a non-christian friend to church and the pastor spoke a whole sermon of death and not speaking about the life (that we have in Christ) they will not want to come back.”
A good pastor is able to do both, help us understand that we are/were dead in our trespasses and sins, and that through repentance and faith in Jesus we are brought to new life.
And that’s really wonderful news, it’s ALL of God! He does the choosing, he gives the gift of faith to believe and the gift of repentance. So those “elected unto salvation” will believe! Isn’t that wonderful? And isn’t it simple?
And that new life He gives to that formerly “dead” person will mean they take up their cross and follow Him. It may be hard, it probably will be hard but they will have the infilling of the precious person of the Holy Spirit at conversion.
1 Cor.12:13 says, “For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body, whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free, and we were all made to drink of one Spirit.”
Gary MacDougall said:
I agree with posters above. Phil is a nice guy but he is a nice deceived guy who spouts out a lot of drivel that Gervase Charmley calls “rubbish”.
Dibs I’ve been a christian a long time-I was saved about 2 months before Phil at the same church….so however long Phil’s been saved you can work it out. If you do some research you will find that the whole Easter egg thing is paganistic and an abomination to God.Pringle just promoted a paganistic custom in a huge way making the body of Christ look silly. The eggs were on him…on his face because that’s where they ended up.
And you judge the entirety of the C3 movement on him? You don’t think any of the other C3 churches are okay?
Have you been to his church or do you just pick at flaws in Christians
@ Courtney – is the church growth movement, as we see it today, even biblical?
Do a little research research into the Druckerite model for church growth – see the similarities between Saddleback, Willowcreek and the direction/methods coming out of C3 Global.
On a lighter note…..
” The Board of Directors for Mega-Church Corp announced today that they were forcing the resignation of Jesus Christ as the head of their organization.”
“The reasons cited for Jesus’ abrupt departure from Mega-Church Corp included Jesus’ increasing lack of understanding of the unique needs of 21st Century consumers as well as marketing data that clearly showed that Jesus’ old school message of “repentance and the forgiveness of sins in His name” was just not resonating with today’s tech savvy religious customers.” 🙂
Pastors/Leaders/Teachers are very busy focusing on their church, not often aware about the churches around them because they are busy. However, a number of Pastors disagree with Phil Pringle.
The more popular outspoken ones are Jacob Prasch, Philip Powell and Chris Rosebrough. There are probably more Pastors/Leaders/Teachers online that speak against Pringle as well. Who knows if other bloggers are pastors either.
Oh my goodness are you freaken kidding me your judging Kong Hee’s wife’s name!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! A name that her parents gave her! Your name Gary means spear carrier does that make you a murderer?
I cannot believe you said that, I don’t know whether to laugh at you or what.
Gary MacDougall said:
Berean there’s a bit of truth in the Mega Church Corp story. Firstly the name says it all. It has to be ‘Mega” to fill the ‘mega’ egos of the leaders. “Church’ is debatable because many ,like C3 , are cults and it is hard to see the real Jesus in them. ‘Corp’ because they are businesses, albeit hiding behind tax free charity status. They of course preach “give to Caesar and God” whilst ripping off Caesar and using God’s money for their own lifestyles. Church/Corp is a bit of a paradox and a bit like the money changers and thieves in the temple that Jesus kicked out. I’m sure if he went to a Presence conference he would overturn all tables full of merchandised drivel spieled out by Pringle and his fellow wolves in the pack.
Gary MacDougall said:
Dib, no one hates Phil. We just hate the false gospel that he preaches because he is leading millions of God’s people astray.He is a blind leader leading the blind.He is a fasle prophet and he is a wolf in sheep’s clothing deceiving and fleecing the sheeple.
2 Tim 3:13 “But evil men and impostors will proceed from bad to worse, deceiving and being deceived”
I never think of the Pringles as evil but I do think they are deceived – so it makes the above scripture really confronting.
And it’s obvious that these false movements will become increasingly more successful until Christ comes.
Gary MacDougall said:
Berean, I believe that in the near future the whole C3 movement will implode. Let’s wait and see.In Genesis 11 the masses were succesfully building a united way of reaching to the heavens (and maybe also thinking they could escape God’s judgement and flood waters again-of course they didn’t function in faith in God’s covenant and his rainbow).They built a really impressive structure, especially in those days with limited building technology.It came to a point where God said enough.I believe Kong Hee and C3 have got themselves in so deep that their whole structures will crash. They have to because they are based on sinking sand.They probably will both be so stressed about their egos being deflated that both could possibly end up being sick. I am not pronouncing a curse but merely stating a medical possibility.They need to repent from their conning and conniving deceptions.
Pingback: Rosebrough Claims Pringle & Furtick’s Fleecing At Presence Conference Is “Flat-out Criminal” « C3 Church Watch
Larry James said:
· City Harvest founder Kong Hee charged in court for alleged misuse of church funds – Yahoo! News Singapore Deputy Public Prosecutor Christopher Ong told the court that not only had they allegedly diverted $24 million through false transactions, some of them had conspired to misappropriate another $26.6 million of church funds to cover it up. ..CHC also said that the CHC Advisory Committee, comprising of Phil Pringle. founder of Christian City Church in Sydney and A R Bernard, founder and CEO of Christian Cultural Centre in New York, will continue to provide spiritual leadership. Both pastors were appointed advisory senior pastors over CHC.
· City Harvest disputes ‘$50 million cheating charges’ http://www.straitstimes.com/The-Big-Story/The-Big-Story-1/Story/STIStory_816456.html Executive pastor Aries Zulkarnain, 39, said: ‘It has been suggested that the church has been cheated of $50 million. ‘This is not accurate. The $24 million, which went to investment bonds, was returned to the church in full, with interest. We didn’t lose the $24 million, nor did we lose ‘another $26.6 million’ as alleged.’
· MISBEHAVING PASTORS, HIRELING SHEPHERDS, FALSE TEACHERS. FILTHY LUCRE, FILTHY DRIVE, FOOLS STILL LOVE THEIR FILTHY LIES In spite of the exposed lies of these false teachers and deceptive leaders, many are still innately bound to them by a ‘strong delusion’ that may very well veil itself as a biblical mandate of submission to church leadership in the body of Christ. Be it a delusion or anti-establishment, the deluded are plainly under the judgment of God. Likewise, are you veiled from the truth? ~ L.J
· City Harvest Church founder Kong Hee, 4 others charged http://www.straitstimes.com/The-Big-Story/The-Big-Story-1/Story/STIStory_815556.html
· City Harvest church founder Kong Hee and 4 others arrested http://www.straitstimes.com City Harvest church founder Kong Hee and four others from his ministry were arrested by the police on Tuesday morning, two years after investigations first began into the homegrown church.
· City Harvest Church responds to allegations http://www.straitstimes.com/The-Big-Story/The-Big-Story-1/Story/STIStory_816542.html
· Church sent funds to US ‘to finance Ho’s career’ http://www.straitstimes.com/BreakingNews/Singapore/Story/STIStory_815524.html
· Ho Yeow Sun: ‘$23 million bid for stardom’
Published on Jun 27, 2012 Some industry insiders say money did not get pastor-singer very far By TAN DAWN WEI ASSISTANT NEWS EDITOR and NG KAI LING What did a purported $23 million do for Ms Ho Yeow Sun’s music career?
· Non-Biblical Teachings Of Kong Hee Of City Harvest Church
http://healtheland.wordpress.com/2008/03… Original Post At Sicarii.net Foreword: this is a word out to Christians out there, and please understand that I do it in all love as I care about your salvation and what you’re learning from chur…
· City Harvest Church? – SgForums.com sgforums.com/forums/1381/topics/330585?page=21
May 2011I believe kong hee himself is a deluded pastor. … Week after week city harvest invites frauds and false prophets to preach in their church. Is City Harvest Church a harmful or destructive Cult?
· Pastor Kong Hee @ C3 College Opening Feb 2009 Part 1 http://youtu.be/Fkldfgf6cDs
· Kong Hee – 9 reasons why Jesus was not poor.
· Sun Ho Fancy Free MTV (Cause A Ruckus Album) Sun Ho the better-half of Pastor Kong Hee the prosperity preacher featured earlier.
· Sun Ho feat. Lady Saw – MR BILL International pop star Sun Ho and music maestro Wyclef Jean collaborate on a second hot reggae-tinged track, MR BILL!
Sun is not a pastor. Please get your facts right. “Sun is my wisdom” could just be an expression of love, is it wrong to do so? Kong has also repeatedly preached that God is the only One that Christians should worship and warned against idolatry. If you want to sell your idea, you have to present both sides of the argument before making a conclusion. With the recent hype going on, I have listened to C3’s and City Harvest Church’s sermons and they do embrace the Bible as the only Word.
I pray that God will bless you with the strength to overcome the urge to spread rumours/ideas that are subjective (based on your own opinion). Saying things that are false would only create a division between the brothers and sisters in Christ.
Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?
DEAR AMY,i THINK THAT YOU SHOULD NOT ABRIDGE (abbreviate, abstract, blue pencil, chop, clip, compress, concentrate, condense, contract, curtail, cut, decrease, digest, diminish, downsize, lessen, limit, narrow, put in nutshell, reduce, restrict, slash, snip, summarize, trim, truncate )THIS,
Amplified Bible (AMP)
4 What leads to strife (discord and feuds) and how do conflicts (quarrels and fightings) originate among you? Do they not arise from your sensual desires that are ever warring in your bodily members?
2 You are jealous and covet [what others have] and your desires go unfulfilled; [so] you become murderers. [To hate is to murder as far as your hearts are concerned.] You burn with envy and anger and are not able to obtain [the gratification, the contentment, and the happiness that you seek], so you fight and war. You do not have, because you do not ask.
3 [Or] you do ask [God for them] and yet fail to receive, because you ask with wrong purpose and evil, selfish motives. Your intention is [when you get what you desire] to spend it in sensual pleasures.
4 You [are like] unfaithful wives [having illicit love affairs with the world and breaking your marriage vow to God]! Do you not know that being the world’s friend is being God’s enemy? So whoever chooses to be a friend of the world takes his stand as an enemy of God.
5 Or do you suppose that the Scripture is speaking to no purpose that says, The Spirit Whom He has caused to dwell in us yearns over us and He yearns for the Spirit [to be welcome] with a jealous love?
6 But He gives us more and more grace ([a]power of the Holy Spirit, to meet this evil tendency and all others fully). That is why He says, God sets Himself against the proud and haughty, but gives grace [continually] to the lowly (those who are humble enough to receive it).
7 So be subject to God. Resist the devil [stand firm against him], and he will flee from you.
8 Come close to God and He will come close to you. [Recognize that you are] sinners, get your soiled hands clean; [realize that you have been disloyal] wavering individuals with divided interests, and purify your hearts [of your spiritual adultery].
9 [As you draw near to God] be deeply penitent and grieve, even weep [over your disloyalty]. Let your laughter be turned to grief and your mirth to dejection and heartfelt shame [for your sins].
10 Humble yourselves [feeling very insignificant] in the presence of the Lord, and He will exalt you [He will lift you up and make your lives significant].
11 [My] brethren, do not speak evil about or accuse one another. He that maligns a brother or judges his brother is maligning and criticizing the Law and judging the Law. But if you judge the Law, you are not a practicer of the Law but a censor and judge [of it].
12 One only is the Lawgiver and Judge Who is able to save and to destroy [the One Who has the absolute power of life and death]. [But you] who are you that [you presume to] pass judgment on your neighbor?
13 Come now, you who say, Today or tomorrow we will go into such and such a city and spend a year there and carry on our business and make money.
14 Yet you do not know [the least thing] about what may happen tomorrow. What is the nature of your life? You are [really] but a wisp of vapor (a puff of smoke, a mist) that is visible for a little while and then disappears [into thin air].
15 You ought instead to say, If the Lord is willing, we shall live and we shall do this or that [thing].
16 But as it is, you boast [falsely] in your presumption and your self-conceit. All such boasting is wrong.
17 So any person who knows what is right to do but does not do it, to him it is sin.
“Sun is not a pastor.”
Neither is Kong Hee.
that’s your personal opinion
Larry James said:
Birds of a feather, a rather appropriate and prophetic title to usher that event ‘Presence’. Joseph Prince and his ilk with the Osteens and TBN are up next. Greetings mate from up the road – Singapore 🙂
Hitchin Aggregates said:
I do not know whether it’s just me or if perhaps everybody else encounterding issues with your site.
It seems liike some of the written text within your posts are running off the screen. Can someone else please comment and let me know if this is happening to them as well?
This might be a problem with my internet
browser because I’ve had this happen before.
Jim Styles said:
I don’t know about everyone else but I’ve never had that browser problem here.
One thing you might try is to download another free browser such as Firefox or Opera as another option,