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Prophesying that God’s glory is going to fill the earth is like trying to pass this following horoscope as a prophesy; “Tomorrow… I see… you are going to… meet someone.. that you know.”
Of course God’s glory is going to fill the earth. The bible says it already. The question is, when does Phil Pringle think it is going to happen? Interesting, I can’t seem to find the answer to that here, except that he is lightly suggesting it is the same time the dam is going to be flooded with water?
And it will “come to pass” through the C3 movement?
What I find so troubling (apart from everything else) is the suggestion that God will use a church that preaches another gospel (the prosperity gospel) to bring about “revival”?
Can He? Yes – if men/women repent of that false teaching, if the pastor opens his bible and begins to read the text, in context, and allows the supernatural power of that Word (sola scriptura) alone to work in their hearts, bringing them to repentance.
Listening to the clip, it’s quite clear that they are trying to give the impression that it was a credible media “talking head” that gives the background scientist’s view. Want to make a bet that the creative team at C3 provided the “voiceovers”? Try to give an American accent to give it even more credibilty. Bizarre!
Expository preaching, is this what they hear at C3?
I would suggest, a resounding NO!
We see in 2 Tim 3:16, 4:2, Paul exhorting Timothy to “preach the word” because it is the “breathed-out” word of God. God’s people are only changed through a regular diet of Bible teaching that is “centered on a high view of God, an exalted view of Scripture, and a proper understanding of humanity.”
This is the only means by which God has chosen to save sinners and sanctify believers, His Word (Ps 19:7; 2Cor 3:18).
Regular diet of Bible teaching? A verse here, a verse there, out of context. The Message bible used more often than not.
And they are the harbingers of “revival”?
Hi Sarah, whereabouts in Adelaide do you live? I used to attend Oakden Baptist church (Northgate) before I moved back to QLD.
Now Baptist churches might be quite a shock to the system after attending charismatic churches (plus they have a reputation for narrow-mindedness compared to more liberal denominations) but their focus on bible teaching is what you need to regain your spiritual health and independent thinking. Even the lyrics of their modern songs were Christ-centred NOT relationship/ experience- centred. Where the Holy Spirit is the *whole truth* will be taught IN CONTEXT.
If there isn’t a Baptist church nearby look for ANY non-Charismatic, bible believing church in your area. And I was there for 1 year and didn’t hear messages about “needing” to tithe *once*.
Remember God knows your financial situation. http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke%2021:1-4&version=NKJV
Who did Jesus praise, the wealthy Pharisees or the poor widow?
I was in Adelaide for a long time but I’m back in Melbourne now. I will look around at some of the other denominations. I know the baptists are more sound theologically but growing up in a baptist Sunday school I never actually heard the gospel (incredible I know!) and to clarify I don’t mean the prosperity gospel. Rather I have no memory of ever being told about sin, repentance, living for Christ. So this is the reason they were second on my list. Pentecostals are almost certainly off the table now. The errors are too prevalent. Sadly it took me stumbling onto to valid criticism to realise I’ve heard a lot of rubbish in church. I can’t stick around anymore and infer I approve of what’s happening. I had been told of a Lutheran church near me that might be good. I had also thought of the Anglicans but some of them have liberal theology and are allowing gay ministers. So that’s concerning to me.
From what I’ve seen of this guy, he’s a master manipulator and hypnotizes people spilling nonsense out at rhythmic pace sending people into an altered state of consciousness until they’ll believe anything. I’m not talking about during the sermons necessarily, but whenever that music is playing, talking quietly and rhythmically to the stupid goats who go forward at the altar call, and the middle of the high point of the worship like in the clip about the rain. He spits out whatever nonsense is coming to his mind at the moment like when he was singing the Beatles Friday night after Furtick’s sermon because nothing else could come to mind and he had to spit something out to keep up the hypnotic rhythm. They do the same thing when “Prophesying. They have these stock phrases that come out and can be interpreted in 50 ways and then they claim to have predicted something by saying something that could have predicted a thousand things. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile and he regularly shows himself to be a blind prophet and one nut does not a prophet make.
So you think that Phil has only one nut?
That *would* be ironic – he has claimed from the pulpit that the bloggers who attack him and his “ministry” don’t have any.
@ Creneestokes40 – interesting isn’t it? I actually found myself caught by (and comparing) the similarity between Bill Johnson and Phil Pringle. Sounds odd, but they both do this funny little cough, more often than not, when they are about to say what most discerning Christians consider to be, extra-biblical!
Chris Rosebrough, in response to a question as to whether men like this are saved or not, said “I see very little evidence (and in some cases no evidence) that would lead me to believe they believe the Biblical Gospel. If they believe it, why won’t they teach it?”
Heartbreaking – do we wish to see people perish? Of course not!
There is absolutely nothing we haven’t seen before at Presence that hasn’t been “presented” since its inception. There’s always a new (recycled) thing, a new (recycled) word, a new (recycled) speaker with a “fresh” (recycled) anointing, (& the offering spiel up to 3 times a day) – every year but nothing ever changes. Yes, there may be more people, more churches in the movement but the message (recycled) is still the same, the lack of sound exegesis beyond the pale. The focus of course on dreams/vision, vision-casting & leadership rather than Christ.
They now have an “expo” on outside selling product, taking “making merchandise” to a whole new level, the senior pastor flogging his art in his art gallery (apparently some of the sheeple think they’re anointed). Those same artworks available for sale at the C3 Church “gallery” as well……..:(
Yeah, I noticed at the beginning of the segment the whole push for all their C3 merchandise. That about made me sick before I even got started. I saw at the end where they were announcing how much money a painting was bringing. (I guess it was on auction.) I didn’t know it was Phil’s painting! Great Googly Moogly!! This is getting ridiculous! You know I saw someone post something about the “Painter of Light” (What was his name?) who sold his paintings for ridiculous prices in every Christian bookstore along with puzzles and mugs and everything on earth. It turned out he was a mess by the end of his life. I guess it’s a lot of pressure to live up to that title. It’s hard for me to swallow that anything could be distinctively Christian about any art that doesn’t involve words somehow.
So Both Bill and Phil have the same tell huh? That’s funny. I’ll have to see if I can listen for that, though I can’t stand listening to either of them for very long. And yes, Satan never has to be original because men have such short memories. You don’t have to have a little mustache to be like Hitler and you don’t have to wear robes to be selling indulgences.
I don’t know if you noticed but Bill Johnson is the keynote speaker for Presence 2013,
round 2 as he spoke at presence 2011.
Why do they continue to invite these contraversial men? Bill Johnson still aligns himself with John Crowder (of “tokin the ghost fame”) even encouraging his own congregation to follow after them, evidenced by his twitter stream.
Having invited Furtick this year I suspected they may invite Perry Noble – probably be on the ticket sooner or later.
Thinking about God’s warnings to Israel ………
“For thus says the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel: ‘Do not let your prophets and your diviners who are in your midst deceive you, nor listen to your dreams which you cause to be dreamed. For they prophesy falsely to you in My name; I have not sent them, says the Lord.” Jeremiah 29:8-9
“But My people would not heed My voice, and Israel would have none of Me.
So I gave them over to their own stubborn heart, to walk in their own counsels.
Oh, that My people would listen to Me, that Israel would walk in My ways!
I would soon subdue their enemies, and turn My hand against their adversaries.” Psalm 81:11-14
And His warnings to us…….
“For false christs and false prophets will rise and show signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. But take heed; see, I have told you all things beforehand.” Mark 13:22-23
“Beware lest anyone cheat you through philosophy and empty deceit, according to the tradition of men, according to the basic principles of the world, and not according to Christ. ” Colossians 2:8
“Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits, whether they are of God; because many false prophets have gone out into the world.” 1 John 4:1
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thorn-bushes or figs from thistles? Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Therefore by their fruits you will know them.” Matthew 7:15-20
“For when they say, ‘Peace and safety!’ then ‘sudden destruction comes upon them, ‘as labor pains upon a pregnant woman. And they shall not escape. ‘But you, brethren, are not in darkness, so that this Day should overtake you as a thief. ‘You are all ‘sons of light and sons of the day. We are not of the night nor of darkness. ‘Therefore let us not sleep, as others do, but let us watch and be sober… putting on the breastplate of faith and love, and as a helmet the hope of salvation.” 1 Thessalonians 5:3-8
Who in the world would agree to be a speaker at this thing that had any real credibility? Do thy really have any choice?
Is John Crowder any relation to the guy that sings all the crazy “worship” songs? I think that’s David Crowder. Just wondering.
Okay, I just answered my own question. David Crowder of the David Crowder band is on all those Passion Worship CD’s and I’ve found his songs to be among the more odd. I think he tours with Hillsong too. I found a Q&A site that confirmed, supposedly, that John and David are brothers, which doesn’t really surprise me much, but would be interesting to those who allow Crowder songs in their church services (including one LCMS church I know.)
Gary MacDougall said:
“Even a blind squirrel finds a nut once in awhile and he regularly shows himself to be a blind prophet and one nut does not a prophet make.”
THAT is soooo well put!
Though now that I look back at it, I’d like to amend the post to say “poor goats” rather than “stupid goats”. That was a little harsh. I was mad about Phil and taking it out on his victims.
Or maybe “sheeple” – we WERE there for a very long time! 🙂
@ Creneestokes40 – the links between John Crowder and Bill Johnson..
Thanks for this article. 🙂 Thanks to Chris Rosebrough, I can’t see Bill Johnson’s name without the X-Files music going through my head. LOL! (Or without thinking of last year’s trainwreck of an Easter Sermon!!)
Gary macDougall said:
Berean thanks for the wealth of truth in the scriptures you shared on April 16th. Anyone who reads those and still warms a C3 pew has rocks in their head!
I’m amazed that David Crowder is brother with John. John , I consider to be the nuttiest christian in the world. The guy has gone troppo=an absolute loonie, gone whacko! And that fruit loop offsider of his is also only one step away from a mental hospital! No wonder many sinners think us christians are crazy!
@ Gary – I did some research and I don’t think they are brothers. John hangs around with Benjamin Dunn.
Crowder’s ministry is called “Sons Of Thunder’ or The New Mystics
Gary MacDougall said:
Just a coincidence then …two fruit lops with the same surname. That Benjamin Dunn is almost as nutty as John.
EYES ON GUARD said:
I have been a part of the C3 movement and eventually i woke up to myself and got out of there.They seem to believe that anyone standing behind a pulpit is telling the truth( where does it say that in the bible).Also some seem to imply if you don’t go to church your unsaved or god only helps those who help themselves.Pulpit faith.Cabaret church.Curchianity.
Gary MacDougall said:
Eyes they need your wallet in church every week to fund their pimping lifestyles. Praise God that you have seen through the C3 deception. You are more sensible tghan some posters here who still warm C3 pews and absorb the same lies week after week.
Eyes, I was saved at the same church as Phil and Chris, in fact about 2 months before them and right from the beinning Phil was talking through a hole in his hat.Now he ahas perfected the art of preaching drivel!
EYES ON GUARD said:
I lost so many friends over the years from church controversies.They should just put every ones name into a hat every sunday and whoever gets plucked can preach.Or is that what they do anyway?The church at thirroul is now C3 I think.Perhaps you have heard about this one. Half of them took off to hllisong years ago.They have done more splits than a gymnast. Good to know i am not the only one.
“They have done more splits than a gymnast.”
“It was classic rip and run stuff!”
Great one liners!
EYES ON GARD said:
Where is this church going in the not too distant future.Does anyone have any prophecies concerning it.Would be interesting.
@ EYES ON GUARD – the church, as in the true body of Christ, is doing very well, solidly in the care of a loving shepherd.
The rest? Have a look at this article and note the trend, well recognised here on this blog.
Just to clarify, I believe there are true believers in C3, and there are some beginning to question the teaching. Has it made a difference? In some respects, I think it has. The younger generation are exposing themselves to outside influences (not ALWAYS a good thing) but the rise of the “young,reformed,restless” group around the world has piqued the interest of those truly wanting the Gospel preached in its fullness.
The community aspect of mega-churches (C3, Hillsong etc) has its own attraction and there’s no doubt they do it well.
The modern church has become a community that proclaims “God without wrath, who brings men without sin, into a kingdom without judgment, through a Christ without a cross.” By and large, they have compromised and sold out on the gospel; they have no more message to bring. Even the unbeliever is discerning enough to recognize a church that offers nothing more than what the world has to offer.
A lot of churches have fallen in to an “easy-believism,” where everybody is a Christian – an easy-believism that sugarcoats the gospel, allowing its hearers to deceive themselves into thinking they are Christians, when in fact, they are not.
God doesn’t leave His own unattended, He does lead them to truth, though the journey for some may include some “side trips”. Why? Would love an answer to that question!
My other thought had been to contact Phillip Powell. Church leadership may contact me to speak with them. In this instance I will possibly find it challenging. Nevertheless I think this is necessary.
I have one request if you do decide to meet with any church leader/s:
if they start “word gaming”, using distraction tactics, “pulling rank”, or start personally attacking you ….then stop right then and there and walk out. You do not owe them anything, especially the right to verbally or emotionally abuse you.
Of course that is an absolute worst case scenario but it is better to be mentally prepared than pay for it later. http://www.apologeticsindex.org/716-churches-that-abuse-online-book
Yes I wont let them abuse me. One issue is I have started to develop RSI in my hands from typing a lot lately. I have also been writing on how Word of Faith damaged me for another blog – I have written 15,000 words so far. I need to rest my hands. Perhaps I will have to address this verbally or use links to other ministries critique so I don’t send them a whole thesis. I also contacted Moriel ministries which I think Berean suggested.
I’m a lot more savvy to spiritual abuse than I used to be so that will help me
Thank you for your helpful suggestions 🙂
Oh yes sorry about that. I did write to moriah ministries not moriel. My mistake. I meant to put a note here on the blog correcting what I wrote but I forgot… 😦
C3 Oxford Falls has another prophet, Stephen Bennett. http://crossrhythms.co.uk/articles/music/Presence_Driven_Worship_Prophet_musician_Stephen_Bennett_comments/53999/p1/