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Chris Rosebrough has once again hit the airwaves on ‘Pirate Christian Radio’, slamming the behaviour of Phil Pringle and Steven Furtick at Presence Conference 2012. Listen to him at ‘Fighting For The Faith’ to critique Steven Furtick pulpit pimping at Presence Conference (12/04/2012) below:
April 13, 2012
Steven Furtick Prosperity Pimps for Phil Pringle at Presence 2012
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• Steven Furtick Prosperity Pimps for Phil Pringle at Presence 2012
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Rosebrough states at the beginning of his program,
“… I’m going to be playing the audio from a video segment where they are- where Phil Pringle is basically getting people geared up to give for a miracle offering. Give money and you’ll receive a miracle. It’s – I mean it is- so, so blatantly obvious and just terrible as to how they are, you know, fleecing the people attending the Presence Conference! And using God as the pretense for it. It’s- it’s- uh-ah-ih- I don’t even want to say it borders on criminal. I think it’s flat-out criminal. I can’t see that this is not a crime in the Kingdom of God, what these men are doing. Steven Furtick and Phil Pringle, both.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (8:20), 13/04/2012.
When Furtick says at 28:25 on Rosebrough’s show, that Elisha tells the widow in 2Kings 4 to give, Rosebrough responded,
“No! Elisha did NOT tell her to give. Not one red cent. He just lied and blasphemed the name of the one-true God by mis-using his Word, to pimp this people for money.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (48:30), 13/04/2012.
Rosebrough correctly points out that Elisha asked the woman what was in her house. She said she had the oil. But Rosebrough points that she never gave that oil to Elisha. Instead he instructs her to keep the oil, get large containers and start filling. She was blessed with a miracle. A gift of grace. She did not give to get.
Rosebrough makes this claim about Steven Furtick,
“Steven Furtick is prosperity pimping here, priming the financial pump for Phil Pringle and the Presence Conference. And he’s doing it by mangling God’s Word.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (46:48), 13/04/2012.
In critiquing Steven Furtick’s offering talk, Chris Rosebrough stated that Furtick’s talk was “unbelievable” and “just blasphemy” (50:00),
“This is a con-job.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (52:20), 13/04/2012.
Rosebrough picked up on something Furtick said and re-quoted him saying,
“Did you hear that sentence? “I’ve got many things from God that money can’t buy but it started with what I had.” Money. BUY-YOUR-MIRACLE. This isn’t Christianity. This isn’t God, the Holy Spirit speaking through Steven Furtick. That’s a different spirit.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (53:40), 13/04/2012.
Chris continued and critiqued Christian McCudden, the C3 worship band and the miracle offering promo. Rosebrough exposed the scam of this as it played and summarised the event saying,
“Steven Furtick has turned into a full-blown prosperity pimp, twisting God’s word and priming you know people to give large amounts of money. He’s a now a studious student of the a prosperity pimp, known as Phil Pringle down there in Australia. This is not Christianity. You can’t buy miracles from God. In fact, scripture talks specifically about those who would try to buy miracles from God.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (1:03:52), 13/04/2012.
Chris Rosebrough highlights that Acts 8:4-24 deals with a similar issue with the C3 Presence Conference 2012. The point of Simon trying to buy the power and gifts of the Holy Spirit from Peter results in Rosebrough stating,
“These people think that they can BUY God’s gifts. Buy. BUY! Purchase God’s miracles. And what’s happened here is that Phil Pringle and Kong Hee and John Bevere and Steven Furtick- well they’ve turned themselves into- well, miracle men who can perform miracles or give miracles for a price. Just give money to them and God will somehow will be impressed. And they can purchase these wonderful gifts of God. God’s mercies and promises can’t be purchased. It shows that, well, Steven Furtick ‘n Kong Hee ‘n Phil Pringle… Well, they’re no different- NO different than Simon the Sorcerer. In fact, I think Peter’s words to Simon the Sorcerer apply perfectly to men like Phil Pringle, Steven Furtick and Kong Hee: “May your silver perish with you because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money. You have neither part nor lot in this matter for your heart is not right before God. Repent therefore of this wickedness of yours and pray to the Lord if possible the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. For you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity”. That’s right. That’s right – it applies.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (1:06:45), 13/04/2012.
Some may make the claim, “Who is Chris Rosebrough to make such a claim against such men?” Chris Rosebrough has stated that he will be reviewing the Presence Conference. At the end of his review, we encourage those judging Chris Rosebrough (who criticised these preachers), to consider these questions:
1. Who has proven to be worthy in handling the teachings of God correctly?
2. Who represents the counsel and person of our Lord Jesus accurately?
3. Who then should have a higher or more respected position to judge rightly and correctly?
So far, Pringle unfortunately has proven again and again incompetence in handling God’s Word on C3ChurchWatch (please browse the archives).
Unfortunately, Kong Hee, Steven Furtick, Phil Pringle and John Bevere have disqualified themselves as teachers of Jesus Christ with their dishonesty, bad conduct, bad teaching methods and woeful scripture handling.
Is The Presence Conference Inviting Dishonest Men To Take Advantage of People?
If you feel lead, please pray for the C3 Church Movement and the speakers at this Presence Conference. Please also pray for the victims who may have suffered from this ungodly teaching.
C3 Church Watch 
True, Jake does very thorough research and mainly lets Phil put his foot in his (Phil’s) mouth!
I guess Phil makes Jake’s job easy. Phil says so many stupid things and Phil’s misinterpretation of scriptures is blatantly obvious to a stable Christian.
Basically it’s as simple as quoting what Phil says to prove that he is off the track It is then up to the C3 pew warmers to realize they are receiving false teaching and escape from the cult.
hey hater…….
Matthew 7:16-20
By their fruit you will recognize them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? Likewise, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, and a bad tree cannot bear good fruit. Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. Thus, by their fruit you will recognize them.
I see good fruit from those that are being criticised in this piece. I wonder of the fruit of those that level these criticisms?
You, like so many others, are unable to correctly identify good fruit.
It is obvious that the fruit of C3’s endeavours is bad, and in particular that some fruit that looks fine on the outside is in fact rotten at the core.
You have neither a good grasp of Scripture nor the discernment that comes from the Holy Spirit. You should stop judging by what you see, and learn instead to make a right judgement.
Keep in mind that Berean is quite right: God does not care about numbers at all – it’s proud and sinful men who measure success by the number of bums on seats. (It would doubtless be instructive for you to read about Gideon and the Midianites, and about what happened to Israel when David took a census of the fighting men).
@ Pegasus888 – here’s hoping we all bear fruit in keeping with repentance.
Can you provide evidence of “good fruit” of those being criticised? I hope it’s not numbers.
By the way, the apologist/theologian responsible for the critique is well-versed in biblical languages, loves the gospel, and has the respect of many Christians world-wide, his listening audience would go way beyond that of Phil Pringle and with that thought in mind, it would do Ps Phil (and others) well to be sure that what they say is actually what the Bible says.
From Chris Rosebrough……
http://www.letterofmarque.us/2012/02/the-scripture-twisting-tactics-of-heretics.html
If miracles are happening as this piece suggests, then it goes without saying that the validity of the miracles are not being questioned right? It is the motives that are.
So the issue then becomes in who’s authority do these miracles take place? There are only two possibile answers to this question. Either Christ Jesus our Lord and Saviour or Satan himself. By ourselves we have no authority to perform miracles, so the power has to come from the spiritual realm.
This then becomes easy to discern the spirit in which these miracles are taking place. It draws my mind to a number of scriptures that relate to this issue…..
Matthew 12:25
And the scribes who came down from Jerusalem said, “He is possessed by Be-el’zebul, and by the prince of demons he casts out the demons.” And he called them to him, and said to them in parables, “How can Satan cast out Satan? If a kingdom is divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house is divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. And if Satan has risen up against himself and is divided, he cannot stand, but is coming to an end. But no one can enter a strong man’s house and plunder his goods, unless he first binds the strong man; then indeed he may plunder his house. “Truly, I say to you, all sins will be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin” — for they had said, “He has an unclean spirit.”
and…..
Mark 9:38-41
“Teacher,” said John, “we saw someone driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”
“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “For no one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us. Truly I tell you, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to the Messiah will certainly not lose their reward.
@Berean: You are correct in regard to the fruits having nothing to do with the size of a church. The house of God that I attend currently has less than 80 attending each week. I’m sure we all agree that a church can have just a handfull of people and still move powerfully in the Holy Spirit. But neither should we judge a church or it’s leaders to be phony because they are large. God’s desire is that the entire world come to Christ.
Galatians 5:22-23
But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
“But neither should we judge a church or it’s leaders to be phony because they are large.”
No one judges the “leaders” because the church is large; they formulate a judgement based on the heresy that is preached at C3.
The church is large because doctrines of demons are preached to those with itching ears, just as was foretold in the Bible so long ago (although there are nonetheless those at C3OF who know what a load of rubbish it is that is served up as “sermons” week after week after week).
Peg think of this:-
Mark 13:21 And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here [is] Christ; or, lo, [he is] there; believe [him] not:
Mar 13:22 For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if [it were] possible, even the elect.
Mar 13:23 But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.
This article still doesn’t ring true.
Nobody here is debating the fact that miracles are occuring via Pringle, Furtick or others in this piece. The claims have been made that these men are false prophets, so if this claim were true, then it must be that the miracles are also false.
My mind was drawn to those scriptural passages I posted above as a means of discerning the spirit in which these men move. By doing so, this shows that these men are the genuine article.
@Gary’s post: Mark 13 is true without doubt- it’s scriptural. All of us here know there have been false prophets to walk the earth in the past (numerous cults and religions that have emerged are proof of this) and there will unfortunately be many more to follow in the coming times as stated by Jesus himself.
We must however be very careful about who we claim to be real and false. Anyone can claim an individual to be a false prophet or denomination as a cult (many claimed the 1st century church in Acts was a cult) but just because a man says it’s so, doesn’t mean it is true. You could even claim Mr Rosebrough to be false. God forbid we get it wrong and bring judgement on ourselves as a result. That’s why we all need the spirit of discernment. At the end of the day, the opinions of men mean nothing…..What counts is GOD’s word. That’s why I test what I hear against his word.
Based on the testing by GOD’s word this article does not ring true.
“My mind was drawn to those scriptural passages I posted above as a means of discerning the spirit in which these men move. By doing so, this shows that these men are the genuine article.”
Rubbish. These men are false.
“We must however be very careful about who we claim to be real and false.”
Nonsense. It’s quite obvious that both Pringle and Furtick are false. They are proved to be false when measured against the plumb line of Scripture. Not only that, there is a witness who has testified against them, and His testimony is true.
“What counts is GOD’s word. That’s why I test what I hear against his word.”
You do not know what the word says, and the little that you do know you cannot correctly interpret. You are judging by human standards rather than judging according to the leading of the Holy Spirit. Just like Pringle, Furtick, and all the others of their ilk, you have in mind the things of men rather than the things of God.
Based on the testing by GOD’s word this article does not ring true.
Utter tripe. But you be sure to go on up to “presence” – you’ll doubtless find it engaging, challenging, dynamic, thrilling, life-changing. Go next year, and the year after that. Keep going, year by year by year. Don’t worry if the prophecies fail and the blessings never materialise – you keep right on going. Be a faithful and loyal follower of these pedlars of lies, these corrupt and ignorant men – be ever learning, but never able to acknowledge the truth.
My first post referred to fruits of the spirit.
After this post you have called me all manner of things and told me I have no understanding of scripture or the ability to discern correctly, yet you know absolutely nothing of my scriptural or theological knowledge and my spiritual journey.
All this after just quoting a passage of scripture and stating I’m not seeing things the same way as yourself. Your attacks have not helped me or anyone else further their understanding of or relationship with Christ. Neither have you used scripture or reasoning in your posts. What you have posted is nothing more than an opinion.
I’m interested in hearing your thoughts too, but you could drop the personal attacks. If I earnestly want to learn (and I do), how does your contribution help me come around to your way of seeing things?
Bless you…
“Nobody here is debating the fact that miracles are occuring via Pringle, Furtick or others in this piece. The claims have been made that these men are false prophets, so if this claim were true, then it must be that the miracles are also false.”
That’s right.
But I would love to hear about these “miracles” – can you tell me, seriously, what they were? Then we can open up the discussion.
Ask Mr Rosebrough. He is the one claiming that these guys are performing miracles and then asking for payment. I suggest you start there….
You seem like an educated person with some measure of reasoning. Does GOD annoint individuals with his glory to perform miracles when their motives are selfish?
I would suggest not. When GOD’s glory appears, so does judgement. Read Acts 5 to check this- Ananias and Sapphira.
“Does GOD annoint individuals with his glory […] when their motives are selfish?”
No, he does not. That’s why Pringle are Furtick are *not* anointed with God’s glory.
This does not preclude God from sovereignly performing miracles in the presence of such men as these; however, any true miracle that does occur is not due to the presence of heretics and liars behind the pulpit, but rather *in spite* of it.
Your confusion is one of cause and effect, which is a common enough mistake (which is one reason why a raving heretic can have a large – a.k.a. “successful” – church).
Your error is compounded in instances where you are misjudging either the true nature of the cause (whether God or not) or the effect (whether it was in fact a miracle or not).
It’s all quite simple, really.
Now to your statement regarding what I posted previously: “What you have posted is nothing more than an opinion.”
That is quite true; it is an opinion – and it happens to be God’s opinion.
Any further questions?
@ Pegasus888 – can you clearly demonstrate the so-called “miracles”?
By the way Chris Rosebrough was being facetious when he called them “miracles” – but his point was correct in that “payment” appears to be required for said ‘miracles”
I was reminded of a book I read years ago, by Ray Bradbury, called “Something Wicked This Way Comes.”
It was about “a carnival that comes to town in the middle of the night, and something is off-kilter, only noticed by two observant boys. The town was sucked in by the lights and action and didn’t realize that the carnival catered to their weaknesses and desires and sucked them in. The end result was that they were entirely trapped somehow within the carnival itself. The man who lead the carnival was a type of Satanic figure.”
Along the same line, we can think of the story of “The Emperor’s New Clothes” with the congregation/audience tsurely knowing (if they really study their bibles) that they are not hearing the Truth clearly and correctly exposited, keep up the ‘pretense’ until someone is finally honest enough to point out their error.
We are so easily caught up in the emotion of the moment, the crowd, the atmosphere, (not to mention the hype), None of us want to believe that those we love, those we follow, could be deceived. It’s heartbreaking, even more so, knowing that once we were caught up in it as well, allowing our families/children to be exposed to teaching that we, as parents gave credence, and our blessing, to.
Having said that, we trust and pray that the Lord, in His sovereign mercy and grace, will open their eyes as He has ours.
berean it has been well documented that many of Benny Hinn’s miracles were fakes.Many people have died within very short times of being ‘healed’ by Benny.Many ministers who have had ‘words of knowledge’ have actually found out about the victim’s sickness before the meeting and just regurgitated what they heard from the victim’s friends. Alternatively, the minister has associates roaming the congregation to see who and where has a leg in a cast for example. “yes, ummmm yes….ahhh I feel the Laawwd is telling me someone in the back, wait……wait…yes I’ve got it! 5 rows from the back you have had an accident and broken your leg…come forward for ‘healing’…’
Puleeeeeeeeeeeeeeze C3 pwe warmers, pls be open, lets all grow up and discern the spirits to see whether they be of God and look for the real Jesus.Abot 35 years ago Jim Jones used to ‘preach’ on Los Angeles radio. Sister Kitely a very sound stable preacher used to preach either just before him or just after as the radio programmes were aired. Every time she warned the Jim Jones sheeple not to follow his false teaching. Some listened to her warnings about about 1,000 followed Jones’cult to Jonestown in Guyana and all died of poisoning. Sir Lionel Luckhoo was his solicitor and was invited. he had ambassadorial appointments and couldn’t make it. He became a true christian and gave his testimony many times for FGBMFI. I met him personally a couple of times.He was that close to going to hell.
Yes, I agree with what you are saying here. It’s heart breaking to see this happen. I often wonder if these people start out on the straight and narrow or are bad from the start.
I have personally seen when a minister on fire for GOD becomes seduced into sin (not always of a sexual or financial nature). I have seen when other ministers have outright hate for these people because of how it reflects on themselves. One minister even threatened to punch a young fallen minister if he ever saw him in the street.
The sad thing is that judgement gets passed by men when they have not been in that same situation. I have also seen ministers who judge others on these instances who are then later in life (usually not long after) tested by very similar circumstances only to fail too. Ministers of the faith get special attention from Satan- particularly TV evangelists. What better way to hurt the Kingdom’s advance than to bring down such public and well known champions of Christ.
I think it’s great that Gary is approaching conversations on articles on a more considerable in love towards you and others. Why are you so nasty Dib?
When it comes to miracles, one should also be mindful of the placebo effect. The placebo effect can happen and should not be regarded as a miracle. How do you test this? It’s hard to tell?
There is also something important to consider.
Chris Rosebrough caught Steven Furtick lying about God and His Word. It was on this false scriptural basis that Furtick convinced people to give so people can get a miracle. The questions that should be asked,
If someone is acting as a false witness against God, why would God bless those who fall for the lies?
If Satan is cunning, wouldn’t you think he would try breed this lie by giving people miracles to lead people away from God with Furtick’s lies?
I’m not sure what you are trying to say here. Are you saying that said miracles in this article are placebo effect, or an act of Satan?
You must have missed the earlier post with the scriptural passage of Jesus stating that Satan can not cast out Satan..etc……Matthew 12:25.
What lie are you refering to specifically in regard to Steven Furtick?
Do you believe these guys are going to hell? I think you must, but I shouldn’t draw such conclusions. What about me? What of my salvation?
It is possible that God blessed someone with a house, kids or a miraculous healing. Why? Because He is Jehovah Jireh, our provider. However, it is possible for Satan to also perform miracles. I tend to wonder this was more satanic then Godly as scriptures say that Satan also performs signs and wonders. The reason why is because I’ve personally never seen so much man-glory, flattery, bible-twisting, blasphem and heresies all paraded under the name of Jesus.
But lets just say God did provide the miracles, the satanic lie is that people can buy miracles, blessings and even salvation. It was incredibly sad to witness all these false testimonies. “God blessed me with this miracle because I gave Phil Pringle money”. I think it is safe to say it was a Godless conference with poor Christians caught in it’s vice.
I also think that in spite of Christians caught in this ignorantly, God can still be faithful to His people. So it is not my job to say who was healed by God or another source.
By definition, a ‘miracle’ is God’s circumventing the natural order of things to accomplish His will and purpose whereas ‘providence’ is the means by, and through which God governs all things in the universe. In other words, He’s in complete control of all things.
Can Pegusus888 show us where the ‘miraculous’ occured? Or is what we see today, in almost all circumstances, God’s divine providence.
The purpose of miracles was to the authenticate the ‘performer’ of the miracles.
Acts 2:22 “Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.”
The question must always be asked – would God validate a man (Pringle/Furtick) with accompanying signs & wonders, who does not preach the whole counsel of God?
The whole counsel of God is, in and of itself, ‘relevant, applicable, and needful to every generation in every culture throughout the church age’.
Instead what we see is the gospel laid aside or at best, cherry-picked to satisfy those with itching ears, for their supposed relevance.
And to quote well-known senior pastor Phil Johnson from John Macarthur’s Grace To You Ministries……
“A lot of what’s called ministry these days is mere spectacle. Authentic apostolic-style gospel ministry ‘replaced’ by performance art……..megachurches giving up the pulpit for a stage; trading psalms, hymns and spiritual songs for AC/DC tracks (or banal repetative songs about us & what we’re doing for God as opposed to what He’s already done for us); hired vaudevillians instead of pastors; turning away their ears from the truth to follow fables, they have chosen a path of apostacy”
Now that’s what I call speaking the truth in love for the body of Christ.
“This from the guy who started a whole blog to destroy a man’s life’s work.”
LOL. A *man’s* work, eh? Not God’s work, but a man’s…
Haven’t you read? Don’t you know? “Unless the Lord builds the house, those who build it labor in vain.”
So a man’s work means nothing – absolutely nothing. It will all prove to be wood, hay and stubble on the day of judgement – and that’s assuming that Phil himself will survive that day, which, on the evidence available thus far, is by no means certain.
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world. By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.
(1 John 4:1-6 ESV)
I have never heard any of the above mentioned men/pastors, Phil Pringle Steve Furtick, John Bevere, Kong Hee confess that Jesus is other than The Son of God who came in the flesh, being crucified for the atonement of the sins of man and who rose again from the dead on the third day, now seated at the right hand of the father.
Their gospel is the gospel of Jesus Christ.
They testify everyday that Jesus is Lord.
If they are on the devils side well all I can say is the devils kingdom is coming down.
God will use even the sinner if he stands and says hear I am send me.
These guys have made a stand and going for God in what ever way they no how.
Its obviously not the way some of you like it.
I heard a quote once, the world is fearful of Christians who have power and Christians who are rich. Paraphase the devil is scare of Christians that are powerful and rich who use the blessings they have been given to bless others and bring increase in others lives. God is a God of abundance and God of more than enough. Jehovahgira.
These men dont call them selves prophets you may be confusing prophesying with being a prophet. Remember King Saul prophesied but he was far from being a prophet of God.
They havent had the hot coals burn and cleanse their lips from their earthly words nor claim to have had a God experience like Isaiah. They are just like all of us, sinners, earthly, of the flesh that are tempted but are trying to do their best.
It is hard when preaching and public speaking to get everyone hearing on the same level and us listening in tune with the context they are thinking. Sometime we think faster than we speak. Things come out wrong or can be miss interpreted.
I am not saying I always agree with all that they say but I do test the Spirit in what ever is said to me, does it lead me to God or away from God.
If you hear something you think is wrong then go to the Bible and correct your understanding. If you have access to the person who said it clarify your understanding and what they intended to say. It may be you misunderstood or it may be that you can correct them in their understanding. Dont take short sentences or edit video cuts to use as evidence when you have not even heard the whole sermon orthe context of the whole conference. I bet you I can easily misquote and shoot down anyone by playing back a few words they say.
Dont rubbish people and try to destroy their reputation but show love. All I read above are people too willing to judge and condemn and lable blasphemy, call names like false prophet. There is only one qualified judge and He is returning soon. Dont be to quick to judge as the measure of how you judge will be used in your own judgement by the Lord.
People learn and I am sure that these pastors are aware they are scrutinized by people. They I am sure learn and try to improve where ever they can in clarity and content but the way you guys post its like your trying to tear people down.
Remember we are not fighting against flesh and bone but powers and principalities. We are all sinners. God/Jesus loves the sinner….so should we. He hates the devils ways and intentions. You guys blog like you personally hate Phil Pringle and anyone he is associated with……use dorogatory term like CULT etc. Examine your selves first I can feel the hate in your spirits when you type the words I read. Remove the plank from your face before trying to remove the splinter from your brother Phil’s eye.
Who has not been imperfect in what they have said, we all have been imperfect. We are not always lead by the Holy Spirit, when we are not we are left to our own devices. SOmetime we do resort to desparate earthly measure. Look at King David a man after Gods heart.
Stop comparing pastors to Jesus. Only Jesus was perfect, all of us are somewhere on the way.
When my wife had our second child we went to Monavale Hospital ( about 6 yrs ago). The lift to the materity unit had broken down for months. I had to walk her up 3 flights of stairs or 200m to the front of the hospital to enter on the flat. At the top of the stairs there was a sign C3 donation $70 000 to repair the lift.
In the NIC unit there was only 2 humidicribs, money was donated to get another 4 I believe if my memory is right. C3 church. In the cardilology unit a donation for more defibrillators. They must have donated at least 1/2 a million to the place.
People are talking going back to their church of 80 members, such donations are not possible with only a few.The example of what they sow into with the donation is only one place I happened to stumble apon.
There was I speaker I heard once Bob Harrison ( yes he is probably a target on you list), speaking on increase and increase thinking. While waiting for a plane out of Africa and man came up to him and told him of how he listened to his tapes on increase and put them into practise and became a multi million relatively quickly. He began to go to churck, improved his marriage and relationships with his children. He was able to donate large portions of his wealth to the poor starving and homeless in his country. Then another man came up to him and he said to him I could not help but hear what that man said to you. This man said with tears in his eyes, that he was a missionary who tried to look after the needy for many years and the biggest obstacle was the lack of money. He said thank God youre bringing your Biblical teachings of increase to S Africa as they desparately need the money to help the needy. Bob is an advocate against old church poverty based thinking which stems from old religious hieracy trying to control the masses keep them poor and powerless, hence the catalyst for the formation of the protestant church. He quotes an interesting thought on the good Samaritan story from Margaret Thatcher. She asked him how he the remembered the story. She had an unusual take on it. The priest and the Levite who abandoned then injured man were suppose to be well of and one would have expected to show compassion and mercy to help the poor man but didnt . The Samaritan however took the man to the inn and said to the keeper, here is some “money”, house, nurse and look after him( get a doctor etc). If you run out of “money” I will give you some “more money” when I return from the trip I am on. If the Samaritan was poor no such act of mercy and help would have been possible.
The point is it appears some people dont like big churches because they have lots of money.( poverty thinking, jealousy factor) The key is as Bob Harrison says you may make the money but can you retain it and use it. If you just hold onto it for your self the anointing goes and you loose it. Its like the simple story that our Lord tells here. A man who is preparing to leave on a journey entrusts his possessions to his servants. He distributes his wealth among three servants, apportioned to them on the basis of their abilities. To the first he entrusted five talents, to the second two talents, and to the third one talent. The first two servants quickly set to work with their master’s money. The third servant did not invest his master’s money at all; he dug a hole in the ground and buried his master’s money. When the master returned, the first two eagerly met their master, apparently delighted in the opportunity to multiply their master’s money. Both were commended as “good and faithful servants”; both were rewarded with increased responsibilities in their master’s service; both were invited to share in their master’s joy.
The master’s dealings with the third servant is a very different matter. This servant came to his master with only the talent his master had originally entrusted to him. He did not increase his master’s money at all. In fact, if this were to take place today, that money would likely be worth less, due to inflation. This servant offered a feeble excuse for his conduct. He told his master that he was a harsh and cruel man, a man who was demanding, and who expected gain where he had not labored. He contended that this is why he was afraid to take a risk with any kind of investment. And so he simply hid the money, and now he returned it, without any gain. The master rebuked this slave for being evil and lazy. He took his talent from him, gave it to the one who earned ten, and cast this fellow into outer darkness, where there was weeping and gnashing of teeth.
It appears that sometimes the pastors of big churches get desparate as they have big visions for their church and projects. We forget this, the fact they they may have big dreams of good intention. Yes I have seen pastor try a little to hard at time to urge giving. Then I think we are all human and have our difficulties hey lets face it the majority of us are abit tight and selfish thats why we have poverty in the world.
When I see pastors get desparate for donation I look at what they do with the money. Do they hold it for themselves of do they reponsibly use it for Gods work.
As for healing its not the pastors that heal, its the Holy Spirit. All of us can interceed for for others, its whether you have enough faith to step out and do it. I have seen real healing take place, it happens in an atmosphere of prayer where the person being healed often thinks beyond themselves and prays or sow into the needs of others that are sick or not as well off. This is my concept of the miracle offering, not paying for yourself to get healed.
I dont think God is stupid, if they use His name,take advantage of people, make a fortune and keep it for themselves then they will loose it big time to someone else who will invest the money wisely into more programs God wants it to be used for.
You cant hang onto the devils money.
As for the critics who are Christians.
Be careful what you think, who is the accuser…….alias…… the devil. Are you playing into his camp. The mere fact that this so called “church watch” exists is to destory its reputation and turn people away from church. It is used by the devil to divide the church and not unify it. Dont be a part of this its what Christ hates.
I dont see much constructive critism above.
What did Jesus love so much…the sinner….the Church.
Remember the character of God is love, creation and goodness. The devils characteristics are destruction hatred and bad things. Measure what is blogged by this measure and you will soon know where your thoughts and spirits lie.
As for the pastors of C3
There is no doubt that they have lead may people who would otherwise been lost to Christ and the salvation He brings for us. I personally know of many people that have done so through their movement.
There will always be the biers and the wheat in every church no matter how big or small. Hey out of the 12 disciple there had to be a Judas. God will separate them in the end, its His call, just make sure your not one of the biers in the end or an advocate of the devil.
God Bless
Hans
“Their gospel is the gospel of Jesus Christ.
They testify everyday that Jesus is Lord.”
Wrong. They preach a false gospel. They preach law rather than grace.
They testify every day that Christians are bound by the Old Testament law. That is a LIE.
Phil Pringle has stated that those who fail to tithe are “robbing God”. That is a LIE.
Phil Pringle has stated that those who fail to tithe are “under a curse”. That is a LIE.
Who is the father of lies, Hans?