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atheist, atheist foundation, c3 church, C3 Presence Conference, cash, ccc, ccc church, ccc church movement, ccc movement, fail, failing, finances, financial scam, love offering, love offerings, monetary scam, money, Phil Pringle, Presence, Presence Conference, rort
This is the backlash Christianity gets from unbelievers when the church allows false teachers peddle false doctrine and monetary scams. Comments like this only prove that C3 does not care about upholding the true ministry and message of Christianity. Yet C3 insists they are effectively wining the City for Jesus.
From AtheistFoundation: http://www.atheistfoundation.org.au/forums/showthread.php?t=4945
“Christian City Church “Presence” conference April 2010
Hi, Firstly my names Phil and I’m a new member here. Greetings all.
I went to the above mentioned “conference” last night with some (unforunately religious) freinds and I feel so overwhelmed by the nonsense that I just have to tell someone about it.
Held in several (very large) arenas at Sydney’s (very expensive) exhibition centre, this event had it all including:
– “Miracle” healings (among others, someone with Kidney failure was supposedly healed).
– “The Offering” (basically the traditional church collection plate multiplied by about 200 but with the plates replaced with deep storage containers and the convenience of wireless credit card and eftpos facilities and forms on each seat for direct debit or cheque offerings).
– Prayer (with fancy mood lighting and humming, hypnotic style background music to get you in the spirit).
– Musical features (apparently gets you closer to god with everyone clapping and waving their arms around to “touch the lord”).
The main thing that made me feel sick was the way the “Offering” was staged. They started off with some short video clips about where “some” of the money goes. These included a mother of four who was raising a son with mental health problems who required her constant care. This son was two years older than any of her other children, so I couldn’t help wondering why she continued to have three more children?
There was also one on raising money for medical equipment for pre-mature babys.
I did ask my freinds why they didn’t just do some miracle healings as a solution to both these issues but didn’t get any straight answers.
Then when the collection “plate” for my row (there’s one per row) went past, I couldn’t help peering in and, despite having only passed five people so far, there were already three $50 notes, 1 $20 and a bunch of gold coins!
Throughout this, the pastor on stage kept saying you will feel the “power” from “giving to the lord”. Again I asked my freinds why we should give up our money whilst their pastor drove a $300,000 car and his visiting conference speakers stayed in 5 star Hotels but got the usual hollow answers.
AHHHHHHHHHH!!! I just want to scream. They had about 15,000 or more people through there. How can so many people be so stupid? I felt like I was in a mental asylum!”
NOTE: SCREEN GRAB WAS TAKEN ON THE 14/09/2012.
C3 Church Watch 
I understood that the main Presence Conference rallies were held in the main hall of the Convention Centre that seats about 3,500.
I don’t think we should overstate Phil Pringle’s influence. While he undoubtably sees himself as a prophet and the next saviour, the majority of the population of Sydney would never have heard of him. Of the Sydney Christian leaders, I think George Pell would be the most widely known in Sydney, then Brian Houston. Pringle would be well down in awareness, with more of Sydney knowing about Peter Jensen and Keith Garner than him. The four i’ve mentioned have all been on Sydney and national television and radio to varying degrees over the past year. Pringle hasn’t got a gig, even though there’s been the Kong Hee controversy in Singapore.
“Pringle hasn’t got a gig, even though there’s been the Kong Hee controversy in Singapore.”
Perhaps we’ll be treated to the sight of Phil fleeing down the street being pursued by a camera crew from “A Current Affair”. Now there’s a thought to conjure with.
Well maybe if you’d all stop hiding behind this blog, grow a pair, and go to ACA, you might actually see it. But no. You all keep saying that C3 needs to be investigated, but to actually get that happening has never occurred to you.
“Well maybe if you’d all […] grow a pair”.
Ooohhh! You C3 types really don’t handle criticism at all well, do you?
Maybe *you* should grow a pair – a pair of neurons.
“You all keep saying that C3 needs to be investigated, but to actually get that happening has never occurred to you.”
Just like all committed C3’ers, you have your eyes firmly fixed on this world and the things thereof – that’s because the love of the Father is not in you.
Perhaps C3 will be investigated and perhaps not – but in the end it doesn’t matter too much, because God Himself will deal with them. (You probably haven’t heard of judgement, have you? After all, they don’t have such unpalatable truths being expounded on in your world of successful and well-heeled navel-gazers).
“You probably haven’t heard of judgement, have you?”
I guess not. I’m just glad to have all you people on here to teach me all about being judgemental. I’m especially looking forward to learning how to be a douche bag like yourself.
‘“You probably haven’t heard of judgement, have you?”
I guess not.’
Actually, I was being kind in my remark: I know that you haven’t heard anything at all of any substance in your shiny, happy C3 world.
And your analytical and debating skills are conspicuous by their absence; it must be nice to attend a religious club where the most intellectually taxing exercise in which you’ll ever have to engage is being able to correctly calculate 10% of your income.
You keep on slavishly following those dynamic, engaging and anointed “leaders” of yours; I’m sure they know what they’re doing, even if they can’t so much as correctly preach a simple Gospel message. I mean, they’re rich and successful, so God must be blessing them, right?
Hi ,That guy,
Actually- to not investigate things before you go into them is just going into them ‘WILLY NILLY’
That which DEMONSTRATES that you are a DUMB DUMB.
‘You should PRAY about things before you speak.”””””””””””””””””””””””””””””’
maybe , that guy could stop hiding behind this blog , come out come out whoever you are , lol if i remember you called it hypocrisy not so long ago , maybe we could catch up and have a chat face to face .
Ahh,
………………………………………………………………….
Maybe not the best notion!
Should i suggest; Mr/Mrs (Churchwatcher(‘s)
(TWILIGHTATION))
Scraping the barrel? Never! For them to be scraping the barrel, they’d be no longer posting new things and digging up stuff from several years ago, and… oh, never mind.
In ‘Dead for Nothing’ Pringle writes that the prophets were all millionaires. He says Moses received $52 million a year (in today’s money). Jesus received gold that ‘set him up for life’. Abraham was wealthy, even Paul was wealthy etc etc.
Pringle writes ”Jesus’s little band received so much, they needed a treasurer, Judas. It was at the Cross ‘He became poor’.”
[Good to hear from Pringle that Jesus had a ‘little band’ and not disciples.]
So ‘That guy’ there is no need to scrape the barrel – it is already on this website for all to see. The great emphasis in C3 is MONEY and not JESUS. This elevates Pringle and minimises Jesus and the Cross. It is a counterfeit gospel.
According to C3 if you don’t fully tithe then you and your family are cursed. You can tithe for miracles and salvation of your family. Is this correct?
This is what your ‘leader’ is preaching. Do you really support this doctrine?
Why did Jesus die? Pringle says it was to give us ‘health and wealth’.
Why give your life to Jesus? Pringle says primarily to have Financial Excellence.
Is this not enough for you to at least question something?
that guy , what guy???. oh thats right no guy
http://www.biblegateway.com/resources/commentaries/IVP-NT/Gal/Alternatives-Curse-Blessing
Galatians 3 – IVP New Testament Commentaries
Resources » Commentaries » Galatians » Chapter 3 » exegesis
View Galatians 3:10-14
The Alternatives: The Curse and the Blessing
“Two roads diverged in a yellow wood,” Robert Frost tells us in his poem “The Road Not Taken.” He took “the one less traveled by,” and that “made all the difference.”
But choosing a road only because it is less traveled seems to be a risky basis for navigation through life. How can we be sure that we are on the road to blessing?
When we read Galatians 3:10-14 we are struck by the antithesis of two words: curse and blessing. In this section Paul describes two alternative roads: the first leads to a curse (v. 10), the second to blessing (v. 14).
Faced by this fork in the road on their journey, the Galatian Christians had difficulty knowing which way to take. Some Jewish Christians were pointing to the well-traveled road that had been taken by the Jewish people for centuries. “Join us in the Jewish way of life,” they said. “Only if you identify yourselves with us and come with us will you find blessing.” They emphasized the noble, distinctive traditions of the Jewish nation.
But Paul argues in this passage that identification with the Jewish nation by observing the Mosaic law is not the way that leads to blessing. In fact, the claim that blessing depends exclusively on national identity leads to a terrible curse. Identification with Christ is the only way that leads to true blessing.
Four quotations from Scripture are used as signposts at this fork in the road to indicate which way leads to a curse and which way leads to blessing. We may label these four signposts with four words: curse (v. 10), faith (v. 11), law (v. 12) and cross (vv. 13-14).
Of course today we do not face pressure to turn to the Jewish way of life. But there are people similar to the intruders in Galatia who want to map out for us the way that leads to blessing. The road they point to is defined in terms of cultural customs.
The signposts that Paul placed in the fork of the road for the Galatian believers can direct us today.Signpost 1: Curse (3:10)
The first signpost issues a harsh warning to all who rely on observing the law. They are under a curse. The warning is based on a quotation from the law itself: Cursed is everyone who does not continue to do everything written in the Book of the Law (see Deut 27:26). In Deuteronomy a long list of terrible curses concludes with severe warnings of complete destruction (Deut 30:11-20). Since the curse is the result of failure to do the law, it must be assumed by Paul that all who rely on observing the law fail to do the law. In fact, Paul explicitly asserts at the end of his letter that “not even those who are circumcised obey the law” (6:13).
In the context of the Galatian dispute, when Paul refers to all who rely on observing the law he is speaking about those who are persuading the Galatian believers to enter their circle by keeping the law. Paul seems especially concerned to prove to the Galatians that the very ones who are inviting them to join the group of lawkeepers are under a curse, since they actually are lawbreakers. If the lawkeepers themselves are under a curse for having failed to keep all the law, then the risk of incurring a curse is even greater for Gentile believers who accept only certain items of the law in order to identify with the Jewish nation. An acceptance of requirements such as circumcision and sabbath keeping obligates them to keep the whole law (5:3). And if all who rely on observing the law cannot keep the whole law (see 2:14 and 6:13), then surely the Galatian believers will not be able to do so either. Hence they will surely come under a terrible curse for failure to keep the whole law. Paul points to this curse to dissuade Galatian believers from seeking membership among those who rely on observing the law and so placing themselves under the curse of the law.
If you join a group known for untainted fundamentalism and uncompromising separatism in order to be sure of God’s blessing, beware! Since no one, not even the most saintly, ever kept the whole law, even the members of this group are under a curse for failure to keep the whole law.Signpost 2: Faith (3:11)
On the second signpost at the fork in the road we find an inscription from the prophet Habakkuk, The righteous will live by faith (v. 11, from Hab 2:4). Since faith is the way to righteousness, law cannot be the way. So, Paul says, clearly no one is justified before God by the law. This signpost tells us that faith and law are not the same way, but two different ways.
The Galatian believers were turning to the way of law because they thought by keeping the requirements of the law they could gain entrance into the Jewish nation and thus be assured of acceptance as God’s people. But clearly acceptance by God, justification before God, cannot possibly be found through the law: according to the Scriptures, righteousness comes by faith.Signpost 3: Law (3:12)
Paul must have realized that his readers would find it difficult to understand why faith and law are two different ways and why only faith, not law, leads to righteousness (acceptance by God). So he sets up a third signpost that repeats the antithesis between faith and law and supports that antithesis by a quotation from Leviticus 18:5 regarding the nature of the law: The law is not based on faith; on the contrary, “The man who does these things will live by them.”
The fundamental nature of law is that it requires doing. When Paul refers to law here, he cannot mean the whole of the Pentateuch (the five books of Moses). The whole of the Pentateuch (law in the broad sense) is primarily concerned with faith in God. Paul has already quoted from Genesis 15:6, which describes the way of faith exemplified by Abraham. In Galatians 3:12 law must be taken in the narrow sense as a reference to the specific divine requirements given to the Jewish people through Moses. In the context of Leviticus 18 the things to be done are the “decrees and laws” God gave Israel at Mount Sinai so that the Israelites would be distinguished from the Egyptians and Canaanites (Lev 18:1-4). In the Galatian dispute, the law refers to a set of requirements (specifically circumcision, food laws and sabbath laws) imposed on Gentile believers which would identify them with the Jewish nation and set them apart from Greeks and Romans.
Paul is not making an abstract, absolute contrast between believing and doing. His rebuke is aimed at the folly of doing the works of the law as a means of participating in the life and blessing of the covenant people of God. The law is not of faith, because it demands doing the works of the law as the way to life, whereas it has just been demonstrated (v. 11) that righteousness by faith is the way to life. The law demands perfect obedience (v. 10) and offers life on the basis of this perfect obedience (v. 12), but in itself the law is incapable of imparting life or righteousness before God (v. 21). So Paul puts up a stop sign in front of those who want to follow the law as the way to life. You can’t get to life that way. Life is found only through faith in Christ.Signpost 4: Cross (3:13-14)
On the fourth signpost we see the cross of Christ. The only way to be delivered from the curse of the law is to turn in faith to the cross of Christ. In large letters this signpost announces the fact that Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us. How Christ became a curse for us is explained in the citation from Deuteronomy 21:23: Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.
Cursed is everyone . . . the first signpost reads in its proclamation of condemnation on all for failure to keep all the law. Cursed is everyone . . . the fourth signpost reads in its proclamation of redemption by the One who hung on a tree. By hanging on a cross, Jesus came under the burden of the curse that all deserve for failure to keep all the law. By bearing the total burden of the curse himself, Jesus set us free from the terrible weight of the curse.
The Jewish Christians who were pestering the Galatian believers had drawn two circles: the circle of blessing for Jews and the circle of the curse for Gentiles. The Galatian believers were moving from the circle of Gentiles to the circle of Jews so that they could be free from the curse and obtain the blessing. But Paul has demonstrated from the law itself the surprising fact that the circle of Jews is also under a curse for failure to keep all the law. Transferring from the Gentile circle to the Jewish circle is no way to escape the curse of the law. The only way for Jews and Gentiles to escape the curse of the law is to turn to Christ.
The fourth signpost points toward the blessing of Abraham and the promise of the Spirit. Verse 14 tells us that the reason Christ set us free from the curse of the law was to open the way for us to participate in the promised blessings to Abraham. The parallelism of the two phrases in verse 14 indicates that the blessing given to Abraham is equivalent to the promise of the Spirit. When the Galatian believers received the Spirit by faith in Christ crucified (vv. 1-2), they were recipients of the blessing promised to Abraham. The reference to the Spirit brings the argument back full circle to the beginning of the chapter. Since the Galatian believers are already recipients of the promised blessings to Abraham but are now trying to keep the law in order to obtain the blessings they already have, they deserve to be called foolish (v. 1).
Why would you be so foolish as to take the road toward a curse when you were already on the road to blessing?
Ps ,i am not saying that you have not already heard about this.
In ‘Dead for Nothing?’, Chapter 7 ‘Set free from the curse of the law’ Dr Pringle surprisingly but not unexpectedly misses one curse:
Malachi 3:9
‘You ae cursed with a curse, for you are robbing me – the whole nation of you. Bring the whole tithe into the storehouse…’
If we are set free from the curse of the law (as we are by the Cross) then the curse of the tithe is broken. This does not however mean we do not give offerings up to and above the former tithe to the Church.
We do of course give offerings, but are nor cursed if we don’t – and salvation and miracles and ‘prosperity’ – are not dependent on our giving, they are from God.
Again from Pringle in ‘Dead for Nothing’ p72
(When under the curse)
”The car would break down. Accidents would happen. You may have planned to have a good time, but it would be miserable, because it would not go as you hoped. It would all just be miserable. You would receive fines for parking in the wrong spot, or for speeding. People would steal things from you and you would wish you hadn’t gone out”
So trivial and so very sad, is this why Jesus saved us?
Compare this to Paul in 2 Cor 6:4 onwards
‘As servants of God … through great endurance, in afflictions, hardships, calamities, beatings, imprisonments, riots, labours, sleepness nights, hunger,,, we are alive; as punished, and yet not killed, as sorrowful, yet always rejoicing; as poor, yet making many rich; as having nothing, and yet possessing everything’
This is the real Church. This is the real prosperity that we inherit from the Cross. We are persecuted for our faith yet possess everything – not the counterfeit wealth of the ‘prosperity gospel’.
amen , amen amen , aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaamennnnnnnnnnnnnnnn
‘Again from Pringle in ‘Dead for Nothing’ p72
(When under the curse)
”The car would break down. […]”‘
I can just see it: a Pharisee is driving down the street in a chariot, and all of a sudden the wheels fall off. “Oy Vey!”, he exclaims, “I knew that sowing two types of seed in the same field would catch up with me!”
Fast forward to our (far superior) New Covenant, and we can all drive Ladas, never have them serviced, and never encounter any problems, because we have been set free from the curse of car troubles.
Hallelujah! Phil Pringle has driven us into the promised land! (I wonder if he’s ever thought of opening a car dealership).