Tags
abuse, c3 church, c3 church parramatta, ccc church, cult, gary dench, money, scandal
The lady who was involved in the C3 Penrith Scandal has also shared how abusive the former ‘Pastor’ Gary Dench was to her family. Read the article here:
C3 should be deeply ashamed of their despicable doctrines and manipulative practices and their inability to resolve their spiritual incompetency. This issue has not been resolved.
It is worth noting in this situation how spiritually abusive and manipulative the ‘man of God’ at the top is. Does not this sound like the C3 Church is a cult when you have ‘pastors’ like this?
… At one point in my life, my then husband and I were having enormous difficulties. We had separated AGAIN temporarily (as we did every so often after he walked out on us following a particularly bad violent episode). He was extremely abusive and the children and I were under constant threat. “Pastor” Gary Dench knew of the abuse, and as I have told you, he told me my husband “would not find it necessary to beat me if I learned how to be a submissive wife”.
At one point, though separated, my husband and I both attended a “Marriage Seminar” run by a visiting American preacher. It was run over several nights. At the end of the seminar a Christian Marriage Manual was offered for sale so people would have something to take home that they could use as a reference in a continuing attempt to improve their marriage.
I had been very impressed by the Seminar (as had my husband, surprisingly). We both agreed that we would like to purchase the Manual. We were NOT well off, had five children, and were counting our pennies every week. As a relatively new Christian and not knowing the “protocol”, we approached “Pastor” Gary Dench on the last night and told him we would like to purchase a copy of the Manual but were unable to afford it and asked him if it would be alright to use our Tithe money to purchase it instead of putting it into ‘Dench’s dish” that week. (Of course I didn’t say “Dench’s dish” at the time – that’s just an expression I use now that I know him better.)
Dench was infuriated! He told us that it certainly would NOT be okay and that our Tithe’s MUST be paid as usual into his Christian City Church coffers. We were very disappointed but we “obeyed”!
At the time Dench knew of the abuse in our marriage (and as it turns out, the rape and molestation of my children) and was more interested in making sure his own finances were boosted than in our family receiving assistance. We never bought the Manual.
I look back now and wonder how intelligent people such as ourselves (my husband was a police officer and I had been the recipient of an International Scholarship and was an Undergraduate in Law) could be so manipulated……… How?????
I will tell you how ……. we had both been raised as Catholics and were once again being hit over the head with a club that had “G.O.D.” written on it. There is no greater manipulator than those who USE GOD and the FEAR of Him to control others.
I feel shame when I think of the way I submitted to my church leaders in an attempt to please God. I hope God can forgive me.
—-
(recalling this episode has just brought me to tears again………….)
We wish to thank this victim for sharing her story.
It is about time the church started noticing how atrocious the behaviour of C3 Church truly is. If you have had any similar experience at a C3 Church – please share your story.
C3 Church Watch 
I’m sorry to hear about your heartache. There was a messy business at the Mt Annan Church over a family who left around 1999. If my memory serves me, the children attended the school, and the father worked, unpaid as a tradesman on the church property. When he asked for wages, all hell broke loose. It resulted in a church split, as the Pastor disciplined the father for rebellion in front of the congregation, while the fathers children were present. It got messy, because another high profile couple came to their defence. The wife was the press secretary for the local member who was the Finance Minister, and her husband was on council. The families left; but not without a bitter split in the church, which all began with money. I don’t know where the families are, though I do know there was sadness for couple who came to their defence. The husband died, and she ( sorry can’t remember her name) left the area. I was at the Campbelltown church which is how I know about it. Yeah everyone knew about it.
Thank you Sally, I apprecate your comment. The story you relate is not unusual in these “churches”. I have personal knowledge of a C3 pastor who used to insist on some people in his church working on his HOME for NO payment, telling them they must do it as a “service to God”. It seems single mothers were often the “target” – the vulnerable ones. (And yes, gb, before you ask, I am happy to sign a statutory declaration for you and provide names and details.) I know one church secretary in a Christian City Church, who after years of faithful and loyal service, was unable to extract her legal financial entitlements from the church when she left (because she could no longer stand by and keep silent about what she saw going on in that church). These “leeches” bleed the churches and the people for all they can get whilst paying no tax and getting “freebies’ left, right and centre, by using their status as “Pastors”. It is my opinion however, that they could not get away with the sort of behaviour as you have described if the elders, deacons or the Board didn’t stand by and say nothing. Where are the “watchkeepers'” in these churches?
You raise a valid point about there being no watch keepers at C3.
The problem for churches is no different to the one that landed Kong Hee in hot water. The Pastor not only runs the church, but the board. To boot his family, usually the wife are on staff, and usually leading the music team, etcetera.
It’s not a problem to me, if families are in leadership, that’s part of church life. It becomes a problem when legitimate administrative issues, or leadership practises are called into question. The Pastors become passive aggressive, and use scripture to manipulate their way out of questionable practises. Practices that would get leaders in the world sacked.
As for the issue that took place at Mount Annan, it would have been swept under the rug, if others hadn’t got involved. Adrian would have been worried, with their support, and political influence, the ‘rebellious’ Pastor was going to take his cause to an industrial relations tribunal.
If I could remember their names, I’d email them to you, but you won’t have any difficulty finding out who was involved. All this stuff is in the public domain.
It’s scandalous the church is unaccountable in these areas?
was this the C3 church?
http://www.c3churchma.com/
Of course this is the church; the Pastors are Adrian and Kathy Gray.
I remember it only because of the family involved, who defended the other family. The first family were forced to leave, even though he was a Pastor on their staff. He was unpaid, but he was on their staff.
You’d need to get confirmation from the families involved, but I only remember it because of the couple who defended them. The wife who worked for the Finance Minister at the time, John Fahey was his name was very high profile, and she invited him to their church at Mt Annan. Pastor Gray made a big deal about it, boasting to any ministers who’d listen, which is why the messy business filtered through.
I left Campbelltown after a split years ago, so I’m out of touch with who’s who. You’d need to talk to them, but it happened.
The irony is I came across this blog after reading about Kong Hee’s financial woes in Singapore. Small world.
Dear Mr/Mrs Churchwatcher(or Watcher’s,or to whom it may concern)
Just a note of ecouragement,
That in times past i removed myself from CHRISTIAN CITY CHURCH due to FALSE PREACHING(‘s).And there are many other people that have done the same or similar.Good to find some people on the web that have the same views in regards to christianity.Thank you for YOUR encouragement and ‘Concord’.
PS ,would not worry to much about that gb(gross benefit) commenter,because obviously he is just trying to make money out of you.
What the hell are you talking about? Where do they give even the slightest implication of looking to make money from this?
Hi to that guy,
There is always the love of money that has to do with the root of every evil.
( 1 Timothy 6:10
New International Version (NIV)
10 For the love of money is a root of all kinds of evil. Some people, eager for money, have wandered from the faith and pierced themselves with many griefs.) Or pehaps that we are reading different bibles.Mine is the correct version,WHICH ONE IS YOURS?
Please provide me with your name and address and I will provide you with a signed statutory declaration of all three of the above. Or would you like to meet personally with me so I can hand it to you? I’m certain, a day or so in court would be very welcome as far as those who have been victims are concerned. I look forward to hearing from you.
Thank you so much – those links were immensely informative. I cringe now when I think of the years I spent lining the pockets of greedy wolves!
Dear Kreewater
You are probably aware of this, but others here may not be.
Gary and Joyce Dench are the Senior Leaders of Life Church International in Australia. They head the Parramatta congregation.
This is the blurb they present on their online site.
“Gary and Joyce began their ministry in New Zealand in 1975. After 8 years of pastoring in New Zealand, they moved to Australia and pioneered Parramatta New Life Church (now called Life Church Parramatta).”
They have conveniently omitted their “stint” at Christian City Church, once located at Girraween NSW where the tragedy involving Jason Dent took place. Sin of omission perhaps? OR, they are covering their “stint” at CCC Parramatta, located then in a factory complex at Girraween NSW. Clearly, to me at least , that they are either ashamed of that “stint” OR . . . . are keeping events in the darkness of evil so as not to impede their desire to progress their own interests and income.
Conceal our past and move on . . . that would appear to be their motto.
Dear Mr/Mrs Churchwatcher(‘s)
I very much appreiciate your factual;truthfull;evidence,
Thank you for your choice investigation(s)
Well Done!
How dare these people preach tithes when under NT grace there is no such doctrine or requirement except free will ofering as God leads us. Even though we are exhorted to be generous, there are no mandatory percentages or rules.
How then did 10% tithing even come about. Those who insist that tithing is biblical and mandatory should then pay all the tithes fully or they rob God which they themselves frequently preach about. In Malachi and OT, 2 tithes were given each year and on the third year 3 tithes were required making the average total of 23% annually. Therefore anything less than 23% is robbing God.
There is no such thing as a one tithe or 10%. Which pastor has the authority to discount tithes to 10% ? Either all the tithes (23%) or you are robbing God as Malachi said.
But praise God for those who live under grace and not the law as
we are free from such curse of the law. Now you know who are the robbers Malachi talks about. Next time someone preaches DISCOUNTED tithing to you, tell them they are robbing God.
Barry, thank you for that explanation about Tithes. (I am learning so much from this site.) That is the first I have ever heard it explained that way. c3 churches and Hillsong always had a very unbending stance on Tithes when I attended. They openly preach the principle and “budget” their church’s spending from the projected income. They don’t seem to care if they lose a family from the church but do seem to care if they lose a Tithe! Since most of the Pastors (if not all) carry a Church credit Card it used to needle me as to whether they counted the money they spent by way of those purchases which personally benefited their families were ever factored into their “gross” from which they Tithed. Items such as petrol, holidays & trips, church cars etc?????? And one I know puchased his daily lunches with his credit card!
It has also puzzled me as to how the Tithe system can be seemingly so unfair and God is not about unfairness.
For instance –
If you have two men:-
The first is single and owns his own company and pays himself $5,000 a week (I have such a friend). He owns his own home (s).
The second man is married, and has 4 children, and works for wages of about $800.00 per week and pays rent of $375.00 per week.
If the first man Tithes 10% he gives $500.00 which does not make any difference to his prosperous way of living at all. He has only himself to support.
The second man Tithes $80 to the Church before he takes home $720.00 which leaves him 345.00 per week with which to feed, clothe, and educate his family of 6 people and pay for all other utilities or incidentals.
To the second man that Tithe can be placing a great stress on his family. It always seemed “odd” to me that God would think this fair. But now that I have read your explanation of Tithing I feel that I can see things more clearly. Thanks Barry – it was really helpful….. for me anyway.
To Kreewater,
A good resource on if the church should tithe is this site:
http://www.tithing-russkelly.com/
Russel Kelly has delivered his thesis on youtube. Listen to the first one here and click on for the rest.
While he argues biblically that the church is not to tithe, he seems to push the notion that ministers are meant to financially support themselves. We would simply say that if the minister is faithfully handling God’s Word, give honour where honour should be given and support those that feed you. That is, give freely and not under compulsion.
“But if anyone does not provide for his own, and especially for those of his household , he has denied his faith and is worst than an unbeliever” 1Tim 5:8
God knows and cares very much for our families and needs. Only greedy pastors insist on us obeying their self created tithing rules like the Pharisees.
I remember one night out at a birthday dinner. Our friend a Deacon was phoned by PPringle ( about 9pm) and asked to go and put his bins out !!!!
Was the deacon also a student at one of Pringle’s colleges?
C3 college students are usually taught to suck up the leadership by driving leaders, watering their gardens, babysitting their kids, etc.
This is not “C3 Church Penrith” The article is incorrect. It was Parramatta. Someone should update the articles and the tab to say Parramatta.
after working a brief stint for some (unnamed) itinerant pastors at C3 o/f, I can vouch that they use students to do things that anyone else out in the real world would get paid to do. Not to mention, these ministers dont pay taxes. there seems to be a culture in this (head office) movement that pastors are precious and above everyone else and they should be served. I agree with some of that, but depends on the heart of the pastor (only God knows). But i saw this going on and on and felt sorry for those students who thought they were “special” or thought they were sewing a seed into their ministerial future… Then you have the legit pastors in the (head office) movement (though few and far between) who wouldn’t take advantage of this privilege.. I dont know what these students are told they will “inherit”, but i’m sure its somewhere along the lines of “blessing” and ‘position” etc… I think God is more interested in a willing heart, rather than reciprocity… just saying.
Yes..i know a few student ‘connect leaders’ ..which means you are the welcoming party to ‘new’ christians or the ‘unchurched’… The worst thing is that those teenagers then refuse to ‘go to their old church’ with their parents, and haul them into c3. Parents..If you want to ‘get along’ with your children..you MUST go to c3. Give money, and even get yourself a c3 ‘financial advisor’…10 per cent ‘tithe’ of course.