Tags
Bamboozled, c3 church, c3 global presence conference, c3 global presence conference 2013, C3 Presence Conference, c3 presence conference2013, Chris Rosebrough, conference, deceived, Fighting For the Faith, Furtick, global presence conference, Idolatry, Kong Hee, pastor phil pringle, Phil Pringle, Presence Conference, Presence Conference 2013, Pringle, Religious Hucksters, rort, scam, sham, Snookered, Steve Furtick, Steven Furtick
Since the C3 Presence Conference 2013 is on this week, we thought it might be wise that Christians discern what is being said in the name of God to the Word of God.
If C3 Presence Conference is anything like the last few years, you will not be getting anything that resembles biblical Christianity. For this reason, we would like to provide our listeners with this fantastic resource so you can see through the lies of Phil Pringle, Chris Pringle, Steven Furtick and the notorious Kong Hee.
Part 2 can be heard here:
APRIL 10, 2013
HOW TO NOT BE DECEIVED, BAMBOOZLED OR SNOOKERED – SESSION 2A
Program segments:
• How to Not Be Deceived, Bamboozled or Snookered by Religious Hucksters, Snake Oil Con Men or Your Own Idolatrous Notions – Session 2b
To download a PDF of the PowerPoint slides for this lecture Click Here
Source: Fighting For The Faith, http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2013/04/how-to-not-be-deceived-bamboozled-or-snookered-session-2b.html. (Acceesed 22/04/2013.)
Part 3 can be heard here:
APRIL 24, 2013
How to Not Be Deceived, Bamboozled or Snookered – Session 3
Click Here to Download this episode
Program segments:
• How to Not Be Deceived, Bamboozled or Snookered by Religious Hucksters, Snake Oil Con Men or Your Own Idolatrous Notions – Session 3
To download a PDF of the PowerPoint slides for this lecture Click Here
Source: Fighting For The Faith, http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2013/04/how-to-not-be-deceived-bamboozled-or-snookered-session-3.html. (Acceesed 25/04/2013.)
If you are planning to attend the C3 Presence Conference, hold on to your bible, your mind and your wallet at all cost.
C3 Church Watch 
A friend on Facebook is at Presence where she seems to have been sucked in by the C3 cult, talking it up as if it is somehow relevant to followers of Jesus.
I thInk you are getting a bit carried away with this. There is no difference with men or women in Christ. Is just that women should not lord it over men which is talking about the flesh.
Don’t understand this video on this topic just listened to it sounds like a lot of silly intellectual nonsence. Doesn’t make sense to me.
Yeah, his criticisms of C3 are spot on, but his rants against women pastors and his demonising of homosexuals, that I have heard on his podcasts, are hard to take.
Newtaste & Annette – “his rants against women pastors and his demonising of homosexuals”?
Interesting. It’s amazing how one person hears truth and another hears “rant”. Prove to us casual readers where his statements on the role of women aren’t biblical.
Demonstrate somewhere in the biblical text that homosexual behaviour by unrepentant homosexuals is not sin – Newtaste, what on earth is your biblical worldview on practicing unrepentant homosexuals? Chris Rosebrough’s brother-in-law is a practicing homosexual, so he has a vested interest in seeing him hear the gospel, repent & believe – clearly demonstrating love by having an ongoing loving relationship and open communication with that man he loves dearly. Do we withhold Truth from such as these? Do we withhold Truth from ANYONE we see standing on the edge of eternity?
The problem with long term exposure to C3/Hillsong/WOF type churches, oftens means those attending miss out on clear, concise, in-context biblical teaching.
And yes, it certainly applies, that old saying “a mile wide and an inch deep” describing a church that teaches a little about everything, but nothing in depth. Which is probably why we see Annette commenting “it sounds like a lot of silly intellectual nonsence. Doesn’t make sense to me”?
Speaking as a former lay “pastor” (who took years to accept that long-held views on female “pastors” may be wrong) – I took the time to study the biblical text, in context, and was willing to submit my pre-conditioned C3 views to the very clear biblical text.
A painful humbling experience, yet I’m eternally grateful, knowing that God has given us clear teaching on the roles of men and women in the Body. Roles where women are clearly able be used for His glory, clearly able to teach younger women, children. Clearly able to support their husbands who may be in ministry.
For more insight on this ever so contraversial topic read :
http://carm.org/1-tim-212-13-and-women-pastors-and-elders.
And if anyone decides to question the credibily of this argument, be sure to provide contextual biblical scriptures that refute this postion (you won’t find any 🙂 )
Interesting point – when you take the time to study churches that allow women to usurp authority – they are the same churches where you’ll find all the current crop of flaky false teaching & wolves creeping in.
I like the cut of your jib, Watcher; you consistently prove to be erudite and wise.
http://carm.org/women-in-ministry
There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave or free, there is no male or female, for you are all one on Christ Jesus. Galatians 3:28 this scripture means that in Christ Jesus there is no male or female. So your argument is invalid.
Annette …..
“There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free man, there is neither male nor female; for you are all one in Christ Jesus,” (Gal. 3:28).
“The egalitarians often quote Galatians 3:28 in their arguments to justify that women can be pastors and elders. Their reasoning is that since the verse says there is neither male nor female in Christ, then the offices of elder, bishop, pastor, etc. should not display gender differences — since there is neither male nor female.
The problem with this interpretation is that the context of Galatians 3:28 is dealing with salvation, not church office qualifications. Contextually, Paul says in Galatians 3:24 that we are justified by faith and that we have been clothed with Christ (v. 27). In 3:29 he speaks about us belonging to Christ. So, there is nothing in the context to signify that women can be elders or pastors.
A closer look at Galatians 3:28 will reveal that Paul is showing there is no distinction between Jew and Greek. This is important because the Jewish people understood the Messiah was coming only for them (Matt. 15:24). Paul negates the distinction of nationality regarding salvation as he also negates the distinction of slave and free, male and female. He says, “you are all one in Christ Jesus.”
In Christ
The phrase “in Christ” occurs 90 times in the New Testament. It is used to designate those who are saved. The Bible uses the phrase “in Christ” to tell us that we have redemption (Rom. 3:24), are all live to God (Rom. 6:23), have escaped condemnation (Rom. 8:1), are approved before God (Rom. 16:10), are sanctified (1 Cor. 1:2), are made new creatures (2 Cor. 5:17), are God’s workmanship (Eph. 2:10), have been granted grace (2 Tim. 1:9), and have obtained salvation (2 Tim. 2:10). There are many more but this will demonstrate the point well.
As we see from the above paragraph, the phrase “in Christ” is a designation of our relationship with God through the person of Christ; we are in Christ. Consider 1 Cor. 15:22 which says, “For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ all shall be made alive.”
So, Galatians 3:28 is not about women in ministry but about those who are “in Christ”; those who are saved. Therefore, it does not support the idea of women elders were pastors.”
Ergo – your text is invalid.
Annette : Cherry-picking (out of context) scriptures is something I used to do all the time to justify calling myself a lay-“pastor”.
God’s Word has/ and is the final authority, and it stands as an absolutely reliable and true source, so we can know exactly what God wants us to believe, and how to act in our Christian walk.
This is not personal for me as I have no desire to be a pastor, ect… If God wants me to do something for Him then I’m sure He’s got it all under control. I’m just obeying Him on a day to day basis. I know the scripture is talking about salvation however we are a new creation when we are born again. So if the scripture says there is no male or female when we are born again then the scripture which says women should remain silent, ect is not relevant as in my new condition I’m not considered to be carnal female it is no longer I that live but Christ that lives in me. If I’m walking in the spirit I’m not walking in the flesh, I’m not either male or female. Which is why I said you have to read the bible as a whole entity no just pick one scripture to justify your situation. Anyhow that’s how I see it. Will pray and seek God about it although it doesn’t affect my situation as I’m only concerned with what God wants for me to do that’s all that matters I’m not seeking position importance, ect that’s all meaningless carnal human sinful idolitary.
Watcher – As a matter of fact I havnt attended c3 for approx 15 years now. So that was a long time ago. What I meant by silly intellectual nonsence. God’s Word needs to be studied prayerfully relying on the Holy Spirit to teach us and give us understanding.
I will ask the Father and He will give you another helper who will stay with you forever. He is the Spirit who reveals the truth about God. John 14:16-17
The Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything and make you remember what I have told you. John 14:26
Jesus says to Simon Peter who do you say I am? Simon Peter answered, You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God. Good for you, Sumon son of John! answered Jesus. For this truth did not come to you from any human being, but it was given to you directly by my Father in heaven. Matthew 16:15-17
We only need the Holy Spirit to teach us, this is revelation knowledge, not silly intellectual knowledge, which is really nonsense.
Also on another note watcher, you are obviously a female, so according to your belief you should not be teaching men, however there are many men who read this site and you are attempting to teach them. So you are sinning, according to yourself! You should stop now.
It was the custom then for men to speak up in public assemblies to ask questions and even interrupt the speaker when they did not understand, but this liberty was not granted to woman. –
Let the woman learn in silence with all subjection. But i suffer not a woman to teach nor to usurp authority over the man but be in silence. 1 Timothy 2:11-12
Women should not dictate to men, but exercise their rights to teach, prophesy or preach, pray and do other things under the authority of men. The reason Paul stated the headship of men was – for Adam was first formed then Eve. And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression. 1 Timothy 2:13-14 (from the Dakes Annotated Reference Bible)
So it’s not saying we can’t teach, preach, ect but we must not lord it over men, just like in marriage men are the head, that is Gods way.
So relax and don’t insist that you know it all watcher, that’s called being unteachable
Paul was reacting to a situation in the Church at the time. His edict that women should stop talking was not a direction for modern day Christians.
As a Catholic I could never understand why there were no women priests, and there were a few homosexuals at my work so my opinion of homosexuals changed to having more acceptance of them. This was years before I was a Pentecostal, so your inference that a Pentecostal environment has tainted by beliefs is not correct.
C3 is rubbish. Just saying that so you don’t think that I would ever support C3.
I agree with all you say Newtaste. Although the bible is very clear that homosexuality is sin. however we are all sinners saved by grace a gift from God so no-one can boast. Even the most Godly people still sin. So we should accept homosexuals and love them. It is between each individual and God how and when people deal with their different sins God knows our struggles and will help us work through out issues when God knows we are ready to deal with it, there are many underlying issues in everyone so it’s no-ones business to dictate to another person or judge. We are all called to love one another unconditionally and not play God over another person. In another note I’ve used up all my Internet credit so won’t be able to comment for a while. You seem like a level headed person who doesn’t have a chip in your shoulder as appears so with some of these church watch people. Bye for now.
Annette – I’m trying to take you seriously. Appreciate that you say you will pray about these issues raised here. Hope you let the bible lead you rather than whatever you have been exposed to.
You say “We only need the Holy Spirit to teach us, this is revelation knowledge, not silly intellectual knowledge, which is really nonsense.”
The Lord says He esteems His Word above His name
Ps. 138:2: “For You have magnified Your word above all Your name.” God’s Word is His communication, His promise, the revelation of Himself to His people.
And Dakes? Oh dear, not a good choice for studying scripture.
http://www.equip.org/articles/dakes-dangerous-doctrine/
And by the way, this is a blog, not a pulpit. You really don’t understand “authority and teaching” do you?
.
Newtaste – you say “Paul was reacting to a situation in the Church at the time. His edict that women should stop talking was not a direction for modern day Christians.”
God and His Word are not in any way bound by time or culture – until this generation it seems, this same generation that likes to twist the scriptures like a rubber nose to get it to fit their man-made, not Spirit-inspired, “doctrines”. Truth didn’t come with an “expired” date, last time I checked. 🙂
God has not changed His will, nor the Word by which He communicates His will, toward his creation.
Malachi 3:6 “I am the Lord, I change not.”
James 1:17“…the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning”
Two things are unchangeable and can be trusted – God and His Word.
Jesus clearly demonstrates that permanency in Luke 21:33 “Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.”
Matthew 4:1-11 we read where Satan used Scripture, out of context, to Jesus, (the Word made flesh). And Jesus’ response? “Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.”
If you can change the Word at one point, you change it at all points.
The Bible is quite clear about the status of men and women. Yes, we are are equal before Christ but the various roles for men and women in the body of Christ and its structure? There is no possibility of misunderstanding the Bible.
You just don’t like what it says.
I’m not saying changing Gods Word what I am saying is reading, studying and understanding Gods Word in the right spirit. The Holy Spirit us our teacher our counsellor.
I was personally under the impression that the women issue Paul was speaking about was a cultural thing, just like with men having their heads covered while praying (1 Cor 11:4). There seems to be a lot of discontent about this unfortunately.
I might add to this, and I’m not just picking on c3 but believe it’s common in a lot of churches. It’s interesting that so many people have the title “Pastor”, ie even a relative of mine without formal theological training got it. I mean, if you’re charismatic enough, say yes enough, or maybe even some good traits, you seem to become a “leader” and soon enough you’re up on stage doing offering messages, or preaching. Yet so many times I’ve seen these people have very little if any Bible training, and they are “pastors”. As a Baptist lady at my work said – to become a Baptist minister you do about 3 years of theological training or something. At least you’d have good doctrine coming off the pulpit, rather than some of the very opinionated stuff I’ve heard coming off the stage.
Having spent most of my life in “Pentecostal” churches, including c3, I think my family are headed off to the local Baptist church this weekend. No I’m not going to class myself as “Baptist” or “Pentecostal”, just as a Christian, graciously forgiven.
This is so good we are talking about God and sharing and challenging and hopefully learning from each other!
I’m finding it interesting reading this discussion that so little of what is said conveys compassion, mercy, or love.
I’m disappointed that when people start to look into a relationship with God and look to Christians to show His way of living, these fights are what they will see!
So far as C3 it’s the same as any leader, they are human! They are all learning to follow Him same as you and me. The problem comes when we put them on a pedestal and either idolise them or try to forcibly pull them down from where we put them in the first place.
So maybe instead of fighting and calling people con men, especially ones you don’t know, we should encourage people to see each other more clearly.
I understand where you are coming from as far as more of the word in sermons but really shouldn’t we be spending time in the word in our own time. They only have limited time, quite possibly a revelation they were meant to share. It’s up to us to search out what they are saying for ourselves in our own time.
I am far from perfect and stuff up a lot so please don’t see this as an attack I’m speaking to me to. Just wanted to put another point of view forward, thanks!!
“these fights are what they will see! […]”
Jesus said that He came not to bring peace, but rather a sword. The truth causes sharp division, and that is exactly what can be seen here – faithful followers of God standing up against heretics and liars. That this should be so is actually to God’s glory.
“So far as C3 it’s the same as any leader, they are human!”
Actually, they are not human – they are wolves, of the ravening variety. This is well-documented, even to the fact that these pretenders are condemned out of their own mouths.
“So maybe instead of fighting and calling people con men, especially ones you don’t know […]”.
But we do know them – we know that their teaching is false, and we also know them by their fruits. And we are not fighting, merely pointing out in no uncertain terms that these sad individuals are theologically bankrupt (and, in some cases, morally bankrupt as well). Anyone who cares to read through the comments on this blog will be well aware that no one has ever mounted a convincing defence of either these shysters or of their false gospel, which is entirely worldly and man-centred.
Watcher, please tell me if you are in favour of parents proactively hitting children, as most ‘Reformed’ Christians seem to be justifying their actions by saying it is required by OT Law. An appalling and disgusting misuse of God’s word. It’s as bad as Pringle using OT Law to justify his false tithing teaching.
This is hilarious
Newtaste – did someone just say “squirrel”?
Where did that comment come from? Totally random! I know you have indicated you’re Catholic and may have a bias towards the Reformation and all things Protestant, but Catholics don’t discipline their kids?
I have a friend who still bears emotional scars from being “proactively hit” by priests while attending a Catholic school.
Back on topic – have you ever been “snookered” by hirelings posing as shepherds/pastors? Have you eve been deceived by your own “idolatrous notions”?
I’ll tell you, I’ve been liberated from the guilt of not tithing. It was a heavy load I carried, including guilt, and the “you’re cursing God blah blah” if you don’t. When I searched the Scriptures for myself, I realised that the Biblical basis was more for NOT tithing, as we now live under grace. Of course I could give me, but when you give it must be cheerfully.
Further, I was thinking about how many deliberate charlatans are there in the church? Some might argue people mentioned on this site are; I’m not sure they are 100%, but I’m sure many interpret (either for good or manipulatively) scripture to coerce, guilt trip or pressure you into giving.
As for my own idolatrous notions…well I’ve found God’s provision in my life has had a better strike rate for when I have trusted Him in bad times, rather than praying/claiming/speaking it etc. Not that there’s not a time for those things.
And finally – James R. Goff said of prosperity doctrine – “God is “reduced to a kind of ‘cosmic bellhop’ attending to the needs and desires of his creation.”
“I know you have indicated
you’re Catholic”. I wrote (indicated) – when I was a Catholic, meaning in the past.
Time for me to once again have a break from Signposts02 / Group Sects / C3 Church Watch / Hillsong Church Watch. Keep up the good work exposing Phil Pringle and C3.
and so the circus comes to town , satan the ringleader and clowns playing the crowd .if you believe the prosperity churches are spreading the gospel in jesus name . you have been deceived . repent and cry out for mercy and pray for all those who are going to hell , as in the days of noah , and then GOD closed the door .wake up jesus is coming for his bride , not money , buildings , cars , gold watches , fancy houses , everything will be destroyed by fire . sorry this isn’t tickling your ears . jesus is coming show some respect , c3 , hillsong , and all the
false prophets and teachers , pastors ,apostles . god forgive them ,forgive us all . in jesus name I pray
Rosebrough’s Fighting for the Faith taking advertising from cheapoair is dubious at best. A Google search of ‘cheapoair scam’ finds numerous complaints from consumers that they have been ripped off by cheapoair. It’s not a good look.
Funny that – you can do a google search for Phil Pringle and come up with complaints from “consumers” that they have been ripped off too. It’s definitely not a good look. 🙂
浴衣 販売