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Brian Houston, c3 church, c3 church movement, charismatic, charismatic church, charismatic church movement, charismatic movement, Christian City Church, hillsong, Hillsong Movement, Houston, Howard-Browne, John MacArthur, MacArthur, pentecostal, pentecostal church, pentecostal church movement, pentecostal movement, phil johnson, Phil Pringle, Pringle, Rodney, Rodney Howard-Browne, Strange Fire, Strange Fire Conference
Recently, Phil Johnson wrote the following article:
NOT LAUGHING NOW
…
Rodney Howard-Browne, self-styled “Holy Ghost Bartender,” has taken notice of the Strange Fire conference sponsored by Grace to You (October 16-18, 2013). He seems unnerved by the prospect that twenty-first-century charismatic phenomena are going to be examined in light of Scripture. Howard-Browne’s trademark giddiness has gone missing. Recently, he wrote this stream-of-consciousness rant on his Facebook page:
There is coming a massive attack on the Pentecostal/ Charismatic movement by a group of individuals that don’t believe in the power of the Holy Spirit today – these men do not believe in speaking in tongues or the gifts of the spirit – they think that because of excesses in the church that they have a right to write off the fastest growing sector of Christianity – over 800 million in the earth today – that would be as bad as writing Jesus off because of one of the 12 was Judas Iscariot – if these individuals just adopted Gamaliel’s advice of Acts 5:38-39 that would be fine however they have no fear of God and are in grave danger of blaspheming the Holy Ghost – they think that because the movement has had scandals that have been publicised that this gives them leeway to do what they are doing – however the only reason why it gets the attention is because these individuals are on TV – everywhere I travel I hear of scandals outside of the Pentecostal charismatic realm but these are never publicised because no one knows them – they are calling their exposé strange fire however you better have the alternative if you are going to criticise something as counterfeit you have to produce the real – or else you had better shut up! The only ones who have the right to bring correction are the ones inside the camp not outside!
All the standard charismatic arguments are summarized there: He says critics of modern charismatic claims are unspiritual people motivated only by rank unbelief. He insists the weight of sheer numbers validates the modern charismatic movement (yet the high percentage of scandalous frauds, philanderers, and false teachers spawned by the movement means nothing). He emphatically declares that those outside the movement are not entitled to criticize charismatic abuses. And of course he includes the killer argument: The critics are people who “have no fear of God and are in grave danger of blaspheming the Holy Ghost.”
In reality, those who tout false prophecies, obscene bodily gyrations, and drunken behavior as gifts of the Holy Spirit are the ones blaspheming Him. In fact, no one is more notorious for that than Rodney Howard-Browne himself. For him to decry blasphemy and pretend to know anything about the fear of God is the very height of arrogant irony.
If you think that sounds unduly harsh, watch this video of a typical Rodney Howard-Browne “ministry” binge:
Source: Phil Johnson, Not Laughing Now, http://www.gty.org/blog/B130610, 10/06/2013. (Accessed 19/06/2013.)
What was Rodney Howard-Browne reacting against?
In October 2013, John MacArthur will be putting on a conference called ‘Strange Fire’. This event will explore what the Bible says about the Holy Spirit and how that reflects the spirit presented within the charismatic movement.
The ‘Strange Fire’ conference page has this to say about the event,
Overview
—Leviticus 10:1–2
The Lord calls His people to honor Him, to treat Him as holy. Leviticus 10 pictures the consequences of not doing so—of offering to Him strange fire.
For the last hundred years, the charismatic movement has been offering a strange fire of sorts to the third Person of the Godhead—the Holy Spirit. And evangelical churches have chosen to be silent or indifferent on the matter. This hasn’t served the church or the Spirit of the church with honor.
So what should be our response?
Strange Fire is a conference that will set forth what the Bible really says about the Holy Spirit, and how that squares with the charismatic movement. We’re going to address in a biblical, straightforward manner what many today see as a peripheral issue. On the contrary, your view of the Holy Spirit influences your relationship with God, your personal holiness, and your commitment to the church and evangelism.
We want you to join us for Strange Fire. It really is for everyone—especially if you’re working through these issues with a friend, your family, or your church. Space is limited, register today.
- Strange Fire is a Truth Matters conference, sponsored by Grace to You.
- The conference will be held at Grace Community Church in Sun Valley, California.
Source: Overview, Strange Fire, http://www.tmstrangefire.org/. (Accessed 19/06/2013.)
If you would like to examine Rodney Howard-Browne’s credentials, you can read what we discovered about them here:
Congo Line Of Unqualified Ministers Endorsed By Phil Pringle
The Christian Post reports John MacArthur saying,
“Worship is a very serious matter. How you come before a Holy God is the most important thing you will ever do.”
– Nicola Menzie, Christian Post, John MacArthur Takes on Charismatic Movement With ‘Strange Fire’ Conference, http://www.christianpost.com/news/john-macarthur-takes-on-charismatic-movement-with-strange-fire-conference-97968/, 2:13pm, 15/06/2013. (Accessed 20/06/2013.)
In light of the issues being addressed at John Macarthur’s upcoming “Strange Fire” Conference, do churches like C3/Hillsong honor the Holy Spirit or blaspheme Him?
C3 Church Watch 
Hey guys
I know this is always a controversial one and I can understand why you want to give this critical debate here. I was in a moderate Pentecostal church in the 90’s when the awakening/refreshing/”Toronto blessing” etc hit. Our senior pastor & wife returned from overseas and brought it back with them (you can go into transferrable anointing debate later if you want). Being a very moderate church it was always our Pastor’s intention to give a good Biblical grounding to what was going on, most of which was laughing, a bit of shaking, and on occasioning there were people rolling around, running around, and one or two people making animal noises (interestingly enough one of the softest spoken, kindest spoken bloke I knew one night just started roaring one night on the ground. No he wasn’t demon possessed). There was never any putting people in dog collars and walking them around, people wetting themselves or stupid behaviour; a lot of people laughed, a grumpy old man I knew would, without exception, every service end up laughing his head off on the ground. There were never any manifestations that made me concerned. I’m not saying that while people were loose under Holy Spirit they didn’t let loose themselves. I’m not too in-depth with spiritual theology to suggest this was the work of other spirits, and from what I saw, given that Jesus was praised, I believe it was all the work of God (as mentioned sometimes people may have exaggerated a few things but that’s not from a spiritual thing).
Because this stuff isn’t specifically mentioning in the Bible it was always going to be tricky explaining it. Holy Spirit making people laughing isn’t specifically mentioned in Scripture; it may have been suggested in Romans 14:17 “…joy in the Holy Spirit”. Remember Solomon’s dedication of the temple, when the Glory of Gold was so strong the priests couldn’t enter the temple. People have been falling down under God’s power for donkey’s years – look at the early days of the Salvation Army; it’s nothing new.
In the 90’s and the years that followed, I never laughed, shook or really fell over. Most of my friends did. In fact I often wondered if there was something wrong with me, or if I was missing out on something. There was only one other lady in our youth group who didn’t fall etc; at least I wasn’t the only one! Though despite this – and despite being quite cynical of prosperity doctrine/certain c3 things/blah blah – I’ll give you this to chew one – early 90’s, before the manifestations thing hit – as a young teen who had never fallen over etc, I went straight on my back, felt this heavy weight all over my body, I couldn’t get off the floor, literally. Up until that day for a few years I had a serious medical condition (which I won’t disclose) which at that time was in its peak. From that day on I never had any more symptoms. Professional medical tests confirm it. All traces of it absolutely vanished. And it’s not something you grow out of. I can provide you medical results!
Back on subject – I know there were people totally against manifestations/laughing etc in the 90’s; people obviously are now. I can’t provide 100% concrete Biblical examples of laughing sorry. That doesn’t mean it’s not God’s Spirit; there’s not necessarily Biblical references to a 15 year old boy being pinned to the floor while brain surgery gets performed either. I’m not quick to call things other spirits, and warn others not to; I think there is a Biblical guide on how to discern. But I’ve seen people who had these manifestations and their lives changed, they still live effective lives for Christ. Obviously I’ll have people disagree with me and that’s fine. I try to live a balanced life; I seem to jump on the “critical analysis of prosperity teaching” bandwagon, though when it comes to Pentecostal matters I go to the other side and defend, usually with personal experience of what I’ve seen. As for Rodney Howard Brown….sorry I haven’t gone there have I. Does he confess Jesus is Lord? That He came in the flesh?
Jim, Google the online book “strange fire – the rise of gnosticism in the church”. Written in the 90s when I also experienced being “slain in the Spirit” and saw people’s lives changed after experiencing ”holy laughter” during services.
I don’t put what I experienced completely down to mental suggestion or brainwaves misfiring like total cynics would. It became a distraction for me later on though – enough to make me vunerable to other non-biblical teachings that *felt* right.
All it takes is 1 degree on a compass a traveller in the outback to miss the intended destination. That can mean life or death in the worst circumstances. This is your spiritual life Jim. Are you using your bible as your compass or your experiences as your compass?
Thinker says “I don’t put what I experienced completely down to mental suggestion or brainwaves misfiring like total cynics would. It became a distraction for me later on though – enough to make me vulnerable to other non-biblical teachings that *felt* right.”
My experience as well – and your anology about the compass off by 1 degree? Well said.
It certainly didn’t take much for me to end up in very “muddy waters”.
To quote Spurgeon “I think we ought to be very careful in preaching the Word where we get our excitement from, lest, like Nadab and Abihu, we offer strange fire before the Lord.”
And yes, all the nay-sayers are already coming out, defending this “satanic afflatus”, loving their experience more than the sound words of scripture.
I should know, defended it for years, after experiencing first-hand the unfortunate laying on of hands by Rodney Howard-Browne himself. That experience drove a family member to the point of suicide, in despair because they didn’t laugh, cry, shake, bark, vomit etc etc. Strange fire indeed.
Thankfully God’s sovereign intervention put paid to that and set them free from “extreme” charismatic bondage.
I look forward to the “Strange Fire” Conference, look forward to watching it live or later archived, and personally I thank God that He is shaking the spiritual landscape at large, opening blind eyes and setting many more free.
Another observer, Paul Severn, commented…
“I am very encouraged that Pastor MacArthur is taking this movement head on. I believe many well meaning Christians have been sucked into this dangerous movement because of a lack of knowledge of its true nature and origin. I can definitely relate. I grew up in a Christian home that got caught up in this stuff when I was 7 or 8 years old. Although it never sat well with me, I admit that I was seeking something supernatural from God. I thought it was normal to seek out the spiritual gifts that these so called teachers and preachers were promising.
What do you think happens when young people really hungry for God get disillusioned because the goodies and events promised by these self proclaimed “prophets” are not coming true? I can tell you from experience. They become susceptible to the occult mysteries and other world religions that their friends dabble with and get into. They start becoming skeptical of the word of God and His divinely inspired truth found only in the scriptures. They put a hedge up in their mind to not trust GOD or their parents!
Thankfully I can say with all confidence…despite my wandering and searching for something better, God has been truly merciful to me the prodigal son. He led me back to His Word. There is nothing better! I repented. I accepted God on His terms and I’m faithfully trusting Him for His Kingdom to come and His will to be done on earth as it is in heaven. But for a season in rebellion, I was running with the devil. I became interested in the occult. With real curiosity I discovered that “speaking in tongues” is nothing new to spiritualists. With subtlety they teach you to turn off your mind so you can “experience” your feelings and surroundings. Sounds familiar huh? I discovered Eastern philosophies are particularly seductive which promote chanting, meditation, projection and mantra’s based wholly on generating experiences like tongues can and will.
I’m writing today because I believe from experience that tongues should be likened to a spiritual gateway drug that may lead to a more dangerous belief system. I am not speaking btw of the gift of speaking a known language. I’m talking about repetitive babble and mindless meditation. ex…groaning, or repeating singular tones or hums with cryptic religious sounding phrases uttered over and over again. It’s Rubbish! Christians should beware that these practices are exactly akin to the occult and mystic experiences of the fallen angel inspired religions. In the secret inner circles and hidden rooms they teach this and more as the wisdom of the ages. I call it out for what it is… Performing Magick.
We need our spiritual leaders to stand up for the truth! We need our shepherds to watch out and care for the sheep…Not lead them to darkness and strange mystical experiences.
Bless you Pastor John and your leadership team for exposing the error and promoting the truth! I promise to be praying for you and this Strange Fire Conference.”
Forgetting “false prophets” et al, I hope this bloke isn’t suggesting all tongues are an occultic activity….
After reading Acts 2 and 19:6 I don’t think you could. (Yes I understand the tongues/prophecy combination but still it’s a gift).
The self-styled “Holy Ghost Bartenders”love painting God as a party animal who wants to win over youngsters with supernatural highs.
They are experts in evoking emotions which are inspired by employing a “unique style of worship” that creates a common and shared experience among their crowds,and are exceptional in orchestrating the strong feelings of euphoria amongst their congregants.
The ‘religious opiate’ may in fact be a combination of inner chemicals/hormones that when called up, directly affect the brain to “feel good.”
People are looking for something relevant to them. If you like to party, drink and take drugs, their advice is, ‘Don’t drink Vodka, drink God-ka’.
They love spruiking these lines in an attempt to warrant the hypnotic effects they have on their minions:
-“There is no greater high than the Most High. When you come into God’s presence there is an intoxication that is overwhelming.”
-“It is filled with life and brings you to another level of joy unspeakable, liberating you from fears and inhibitions you find in the world. It is a blissful sense of liberty.”
-“This isn’t offensive to the Lord, but it is to the religious folk who attend a dead organisation.”
-“Heaven is going to be wild. God will show up and be the life of the party. We want to see fun coming back into the Church.”
What is worse than a drunkard?
Someone who pretends to have a tanked mind…right?
But God wants Christians to be self controlled and to have a sound mind.
Titus 1:8
But hospitable, a lover of good, self-controlled, upright, holy, and disciplined.
Proverbs 25:28
A man without self-control is like a city broken into and left without walls.
1 Peter 4:7
The end of all things is at hand; therefore be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers.
2 Peter 1:5-6
For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge, and knowledge with self-control, and self-control with steadfastness, and steadfastness with godliness,
1 Peter 5:8
Be sober-minded; be watchful. Your adversary the devil prowls around like a roaring lion, seeking someone to devour.
1 Peter 1:13
Therefore, preparing your minds for action, and being sober-minded, set your hope fully on the grace that will be brought to you at the revelation of Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 4:7
The end of all things is at hand; therefore be self-controlled and sober-minded for the sake of your prayers.
1 Timothy 3:2
Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach,
Ephesians 5:18
And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery, but be filled with the Spirit,
Titus 2:2
Older men are to be sober-minded, dignified, self-controlled, sound in faith, in love, and in steadfastness.
1 Corinthians 15:34
Wake up from your drunken stupor, as is right, and do not go on sinning. For some have no knowledge of God. I say this to your shame.
1 Timothy 3:1-16
The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church? …
http://www.openbible.info/topics/self_control
http://www.openbible.info/topics/sober_minded
@ Jim – the gentleman clearly stated…
“I am not speaking btw of the gift of speaking a known language. I’m talking about repetitive babble and mindless meditation. ex…groaning, or repeating singular tones or hums with cryptic religious sounding phrases uttered over and over again.”
I did a lot of babbling, for 22 years. I do not have the gift of tongues (known languages) and it’s fascinating that this was never taught in context EVER at C3 in regards to correct use of tongues in a service.
In order, two or three at most, men only and not without interpretation.
In Acts 2 & 19:6, they were proclaiming the gospel in known languages “the mighty works of God”.
http://www.gotquestions.org/gift-of-tongues.html
Oh sorry mate I was referring to Paul Severn’s comments.
i like wilsons explanation thats how i see it. im all for the power of god and feeling gods love. however its for a purpose to transform us to be more like christ in our character we are the branches jesus ís the vine
i also agree with illegally blonde regarding speaking in tongues my thoughts exactly
speaking in tongues good when it is practiced properly ive always wondered however how you can really know if someone is really speaking in tongues or just making it up
@ Jim – I was referring to Paul Severn too. Clarifying his comment.
By the way, if you would like to listen to any of John Macarthur sermons, audios etc – they are all available free these days, as are seminary lectures etc free for download. Have been for a few years now, and all those attending the Strange Fire conference will be given a copy of his new book “Strange Fire”.
Can’t wait to read it myself, as it was his original book “Charismatic Chaos” that was integral in bringing us out of C3 and charismania. The book as PDF is free to download or to listen to here.
http://www.gty.org/resources/sermon-series/219/charismatic-chaos
Brilliant – why hearing from “God” outside of scripture is unbiblical and spiritually dangerous.
Very thorough video. I’m reasonably insulted by the way he basically labels all Pentecostals as warped in doctrine and ready to fall in a heap, ie praying for your Pentecostal family members. Sure there are some who don’t have a thorough grounding in the Word and are very emotional-based; but there are plenty who believe in the gifts and (legitimate) manifestations of the Spirit who do have a good Biblical understanding of their faith, who do seek a holy life – not the latest good feeling.
I personally don’t agree with his synopsis of the traffic light incident; maybe he hasn’t had God talk to him like that. My very basic faith/Salvo upbringing/non Pentecostal/non tongues father had a similar thing one night whilst working – didn’t take off from an intersection because he “felt” not to; next thing a car came flying through and would’ve easily cleaned him up. Was that a mischievous spirit? I understand there could be conditions for that kind of spiritual deception to take place but I haven’t seen that where I have been, and I think he should be very, very careful in what he attributes to possibly being an evil spirit.
PS: For the record, my abovementioned very simple-faithed Father literally heard the audible voice of God once. One for the doubters….
There are those who view reformed believers as “not acknowledging the work of the Holy Spirit in the Church today. The letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.” So says one mocker.
Interesting use of a small part of a larger context of scripture? Though I’m not surprised to see such scriptures cherry-picked.
Clearly this simply means that the old testament/covenant (the letter) kills while the new testament/covenant (the Spirit) gives life.
2 Cor 3:4-6 “Such is the confidence that we have through Christ toward God. Not that we are sufficient in ourselves to claim anything as coming from us, but our sufficiency is from God, who has made us sufficient to be ministers of a new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit. For the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life.”
The answer is, this particular gentleman (so horrified that John Macarthur would dare hold “charismaniac” beliefs to the light of God’s Word) is using a common abuse of the text that relies on the old logical fallacy of begging the question, i.e. “We have the Spirit, because you do not acknowledge this, you do not, therefore you have only the letter that kills.”
To which our response is that Jesus is alive, and has not appointed anyone as Pope in his own place.
Whether this particular gentleman holds to the false teaching that God needs our permission to work in the world or not, there is, operating undercover here, the false theology that says that a miracle is God at work, and the “laws of nature” are not.
He sees God at work in the sun standing still, but not in the sun NOT standing still, God at work in the sun darkened at noonday, but not in the sun shining at noonday. He sees the Holy Spirit only in the spectacular – and as such it fails dismally to provide anything truly worthwhile.
Dare I use that beautiful expression – God’s “bountiful providence”?
Enough said, let’s look at some good resources available free to download – this Theological Resource Center serves as a worldwide extension of The Master’s Seminary.
John Macarthur and the Masters Seminary lecturers are keen to see Christians worldwide grow spiritually in the knowledge of God’s word
http://www.theologicalresources.org/
http://www.theologicalresources.org/the-masters-seminary/lectures/
@ Jim – re the traffic light incident.
Jonathon Fisk gave a clear biblical understanding of such things. The problem IS a very real satanic presence able to lull people into a false sense of security (and an immature faith in signs/experiences). And He was careful to not just attribute it to a “mischievous/evil spirit”
I am a person who believes God does work mostly through providence with the most blessed occasional seemingly miraculous intervention. That urge in the heart to “cease and desist” something, can be the Holy Spirit (in a believer) working something out sovereignly in their lives, for God’s often unknown/never known purposes.
The more extreme charismatics/Pentecostal exude a form of elitism. Those of us who realize that we are just very “ordinary” Christians (sinners saved by grace), also realize there are those who think of reformed believers as legalists because we hold so firmly to “sola scriptura”
The problem here, Jim, I am a former “extreme” charismatic/Pentecostal. Spent years having my head turned by the latest fad introduced to our previous church through speakers, books and various displays of unbiblical altar calls to be “slain in the spirit” etc.
We now attend a church that spends a lot of time in the Word AND in prayer, prayer for healing, for growth, for provision, for our missionaries in dangerous places (not some church plant near a good surfing beach and great cafes). We see God moving wonderfully through those prayers as we seek His will in all things.
I have no reason to worry about those who judge us as not being very “spiritual”. I am daily trusting Jesus and because He has given me His Spirit, I shall never be separated from His love and, in His perfect timing, one day see Him face to face, fully understanding.
There are so many who are on a quest to chase after “personal revelations”.
I know because I used to believe that way.
God is not doling out secret information – the only ones generally claiming such things have a very poor understanding of the gospel and rarely present that same gospel, particularly because they made it all about “experience” at the expense of sound doctrine.
God offers us a great liberty which includes the wonderful freedom to choose certain courses of action that sometimes don’t even work the way we hope! Try figuring that one out!
But He is still sovereign, still determining all our steps even when we think WE are.
It is quite wonderful to be able to exercise that Christian liberty, as we acknowledge His very mysterious providence
i dont believe gods providence is mysterious
The wife and I came out of pentecostalism/charismatic back in
the 70’s for me, 80’s for her. Providentially God showed us
through His word that is was not for us. My wife used to be
with Helen valonoios (sp) ministry (minnesota) and was with
with the healer who Nolan covered in his “Healing a Doctor in
search of a miracle.” Yet God was gracious and showed us in
His Word, that healing the sick and raising the dead didn’t
make much difference MT7&8. We are not saying you need to
leave this confused mess of unholiness, but we did so and He
has blessed and encouraged us in every situation since.
I came into the Grace camp a few years before John MacArthur
did, and have been blessed from that as well.
Carl