Tags
c3 church, CHC, Christian City Church, City Harvest Church, city harvest church scandal, Hollywood Mansion, Kong Hee, Sun Ho
Although this is an older article, people have been enquiring where they can find information on Sun Ho’s Hollywood Mansion. So we thought it was important for people to read it on C3 Church Watch.
Transitioning reports,
Sun Ho Lives In $28,000-a-month rented Hollywood Mansion
City Harvest co-founder living it up in L.A.
Imagine living in a S$28,000-a-month rented estate where famous Hollywood celebrities such as Paris Hilton’s sister Nicky, “Ugly Betty” star America Ferrera and British singer Leona Lewis are your neighbours.
If luck is on your side, you could even cross paths with Brad Pitt and Angelina Jolie, who are also said to own a property in the vicinity.
Sounds too good to be true?
The Hollywood Hills estate is the place singer Ho Yeow Sun, 40, popularly known as Sun Ho, calls home since she moved to Los Angeles for her music career.
She is the wife of Reverend Kong Hee, 45, and co-founder of City Harvest Churchand has been commuting between Singapore and the U.S. since 2003.
According to The New Paper, the Hollywood mansion Ho has been renting for the past year is listed for sale at S$7.7 million. It’s reported that Ho lives there with her 5-year-old son, Dayan, an assistant, a nanny and her relatives.
The profile of residents in the neighbourhood is said to comprise millionaires and high-profile businessmen who like the quiet, peaceful and well-policed area with a low crime rate.
The report’s detailed description also indicates that the dark green Spanish Mediterranean-style building Ho is renting stands out from the rest of the properties in the area due to its large size.
The estate stands on 29,000 sq ft of land or about a third of a football field. It’s made up of a main house, three self-contained structures, with quarters for a butler, nanny and maid. Not only does it boast a swimming pool, a sundeck and a two-car garage, its driveway still has space for another 9 cars.
The total built-up area of the estate is 6,766 sq ft or about the size of 5 five-room HDB flats, while the 4,135 sq ft main house has four bedrooms.
The paper also said the housing agent in charge of the property described Kong Hee’s wife as “Singapore’s top singer and entertainer” while a neighbour said she was very “sophisticated and seems traditional” as she often hosts gatherings during special occasions like Chinese New Year.
Back in Singapore, the couple also made some big property moves through the years.
They started off in a five-room HDB flat in Tampines which was purchased at S$127,000 before selling it for S$420,000. They then moved to a unit at Horizon Towers costing S$1 million in River Valley before selling it off to buy a new apartment at The Suites at Central on Devonshire Road, said to be worth about S$2.6 million.
Ho returned to Singapore last Monday to assist the Commercial Affairs Department (CAD) in an investigation into alleged misuse of church funds. She was said to have been grilled by police for more than eight hours.
Her husband, Kong Hee recently explained his silence in a Facebook post that said, “Because we’re in the midst of the investigation, I am unable to provide any details about the progress besides what already has been released by the Singapore Police in their statement to the press.”
“But I would like to assure everyone that I, together with the Management Board of the church, am fully cooperative in providing the necessary information needed for the investigation,” said the Pastor, who himself was recently accused of plagiarising three prominent Christian authors.
The couple and at least 16 others connected to the City Harvest Church are currently assisting the CAD in ongoing investigations.
Source: By Ion Danker, Sun Ho Lives In $28,000-a-month rented Hollywood Mansion, City Harvest co-founder living it up in L.A., http://www.transitioning.org/2010/06/22/sun-ho-lives-in-28000-a-month-rented-hollywood-mansion/, 20/06/2010.
C3 Church Watch 
“And as I have said in the press, I TOTALLY DISAGREE with MOM that there is insufficient ground for her termination and I am prepared to sacrifice my life and everything I have to maintain this position.”
After decades of “serving God”(listening, obeying and speaking for God for a living) and building one of the biggest churches in Sin, this magician pastor(another kong kong) has decided to place all his bet( life,ministry, everything) against an adulteress (and who is not by nature normally lustful?)
I hope MOM will make this magician(circle’s act) disappear.
I read on the Facebook CHC confessions page that Sun Ho rented the place from a landlord by the name of … “Kong Hee”.
It seems that Kong Hee bought the place in order to charge rent to the church yet be able to profit from a potential property value increase. Per the same CHC confession page, the scheme fall flat and the mansion was hastily sold with significant loss.
I must add that the CHC confession page did not offer any proof.
I forgot to add the source link…
The church got “stoned” by THE LAW. Now who is the sexually immoral here?
[Edited]
How about posting something that informs your readers about the many orphans Kong and Sun have helped in China?
Guess that dose not suit your cause.
Dean Sweetman
Yes you’re right Dean; AUD$24,000/month would help a lot of orphans in China.
Anyway, all will be revealed….
If they don’t do that, would they be able to profit so much? People are generally gullible and superficial. Deception is very deep and dark. It works best hiding behind “good works”. Satan has transformed into a servant of light. You saw the light, you walked towards it and lo and behold, you fall into a ditch and may not come out alive.
Sorry, I don’t give the devil as much power as you do. I’d never get out of bed if I lived in such fear.
“How about posting something that informs your readers about the many orphans Kong and Sun have helped in China?”
G’day Dean, how are you? Could you tell us, when Kong and Sun did their “good works”, did they do so in order that they could be esteemed in the eyes of men? Or did they rather pay heed to the words of Jesus, who said that when we give to the needy, we shouldn’t let our left hand know what our right hand is doing?
And could you tell us, please, when Kong and Sun did their “good works”, did they spend their own money, or did they spend other people’s money?
And how did Kong get that money, Dean? By asking his congregation to give until tears streamed down their cheeks? By shamelessly pressuring even students and the unemployed to give to his cult? By preying on those who had down-graded to smaller units in order to hand the profits obtained thereby to CHC? (And all of this while Kong was living in a SG$9.1 million penthouse in swanky Sentosa Cova, and Sun was living the high life in a Hollywood mansion that she rented for SG$28,000 per month).
Kong and Sun are religious poseurs and hypocrites of the highest order, and they preach a false gospel (did you know, Dean, that according to Kong, Jesus was “wealthy”? Can you believe that anyone would insult the intelligence of his listeners by spouting such tripe?). They are an affront to the truth, a shame to the true church, and enemies of the cross of Christ – and all their righteous acts are nothing more than filthy rags in the sight of God. However, these bare facts notwithstanding, Phil “Fake Doctorate” Pringle has described this pathetic pair as “good people” – do you honestly subscribe to his view as well, or is it simply necessary for you to toe the C3 line in order to preserve your job and protect your livelihood?
The thing is, you do not all the facts and neither do I. What if their living expenses were 1% of what they gave to charatible endeavors?
Your issue with pastors asking church members to freely give to projects that help the poor or advance the Kingdom seems inconsistent with your desire for biblical Christianity.
Suppose a 100 member church can help one single mother with her weekly expenses. A 1000 member church might be able to help 10 or 20 or more. A 20,000 member church would be able to help many more. Why do large churches seem to threaten your brand of Christianity?
I don’t have all the facts regarding the current CHC investigation but again neither do you. I have seen with my own eyes what CHC and Ps Kong & Sun have done helping disabled children in their city and it made me cry.
All I’m saying is to perhaps tone down your judgmental attitude and seek some other information on all the people CHC has helped with the same vigor you seem to have for anything negative.
“I don’t have all the facts regarding the current CHC investigation but again neither do you.”
From CHC Confessions on facebook:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
“All the figures revealed about the expenditures for “Crossover” project are mind blowing!
What irks me is that Pastor Kong preached that the Arise and Build was for building God a great house, he showed pictures of huge stadiums even just prior to the point of announcing Suntec. And so we gave our best, our bonuses, our savings, our holidays.
Now we hear from their own mouths that all the money went into the Crossover. We’ve been executive members for more than 10 years and this is the first time we hear about our BF money being used for other purposes. We had to hear it from the courts!
To set the record straight, we never knew or even agreed for such use of the BF. We were all hoodwinked. We were all lied to. This is criminal. Since they have already admitted to using our BF in this manner, not for its original intended purpose, we are now considering a class action suit to get our money back plus damages. If Eng Han can get his all back, so should we. We don’t need to wait for the trail to be over. Anyone else with us? Any lawyers here to advise?
Looking at all the finances for the Crossover, something looks fishy. The amounts seems unusually inflated even for Hollywood standards. It obviously included non crossover expenses like Kong’s travel of $700k. I can’t help wonder if the amount paid to the people to work with Sun was exactly as stated or there is a mark up, commissions and middle man fees for a invisible go between, with the money lining the pockets of Kong and his team. They are surely capable of that!”
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Yep, it’s mind-blowing all right. It’s eye-popping, jaw-dropping stuff – and there is loads more on CHC Confessions for those who aren’t averse to uncovering the sad truth and seeing just how outraged CHC members are that they have been deceived and cheated out of millions of dollars.
There are facts aplenty, and the revelations regarding unconscionable conduct keep on coming – it’s like squeezing an ugly boil, and the pus just won’t stop flowing. No wonder Phil Pringle is looking so crook – his precious pastoral protege is being shown to be blacker by the minute.
“Your issue with pastors asking church members to freely give to projects that help the poor or advance the Kingdom seems inconsistent with your desire for biblical Christianity.”
I was pondering over just why it is that pentecostal “pastors” have such a pronounced propensity for trotting out straw man arguments, and it struck me why it is so: they spend so much of their time engaging in tortuous eisegetical exercises that they finally end up in a place where they are incapable of forming a clear understanding of anything they read. (One suspects that they start out being spiritually confused and end up subject to a spirit of confusion).
So let’s break this down and clarify matters as we go:
“Your issue […]”
It is not “my issue”. The one whom Kong Ho and his wife have arrogantly thumbed their noses at is none other than God Himself.
“[…] with pastors […]”
Do you think they fulfill the biblical definition as ‘pastors’?.
“[…] asking church members to freely give […]”
Freely? It would not be wrong at all to say that Kong bullied and manipulated his flock, they importuned and cajoled them in the best traditions of a mammon-worshipping pentecostal mega-“church”.
“[…] to projects that help the poor or advance the Kingdom […]”
Have you seen the “China Wine” video, Dean? Would you care to explain how the half-dressed wife of a supposed “pastor” indulging in a lascivious display that includes gyrating suggestively and being pawed by female dancers is “advancing the Kingdom”? I would love to hear your take on that – as would the good citizens of Singapore, who have been rightly scandalised by Sun’s outrageous conduct.
“[…] seems inconsistent with your desire […]”
“My desire” has nothing to do with it. What matters is that God’s name is upheld among men, so that He may receive the honour that is rightly His.
“[…] for biblical Christianity.”
“Biblical Christianity”? Maybe you’ve got me mixed up with someone else. Do you think Kong Hee and Sun Ho offer a “biblical Christianity” I desire for?
@ Dean Sweetman – Perhaps the $500,000 “gift” she received was donated to helping the orphans in China?
“Pop singer Ho Yeow Sun received more than half a million in bonuses and advances, including a $30,000 birthday cash gift and an $80,000 “special performance bonus for hits in the US or the United Kingdom” in 2006.”
Allowing a small amount put aside to buy the outfit she wore to the “Victoria’s Secret” event, something most pastors’ wives aren’t willing to attend, modesty prevailing….
Do you know how much Sun gave to help others from the income she received? I don’t but you seem to think the worst without having all the facts.
Regarding the Victoria’s Secret event, some female pastors where their products, I see no issues with it. Some male pastors might even do so, why do I care what people wear. What people wear privately is of no issue to me. One persons modesty is another’s liberty.
“I don’t have all the facts regarding the current CHC investigation but again neither do you.”
Dean – they are easily available on this and many other websites, including Strait Times and other leading Singaporean news sites.
Don’t have a go at us about not knowing the facts when most of us have thoroughly researched the charges he and others are facing when you haven’t yourself. Perhaps you should acquaint yourselves with their alleged offences and take the blinkers off. By all your replies you seem to be concentrating in a very defence-like manner of only pushing the positive while completely ignoring the subject matter which is the $28000/month rent, and their alleged offences.
Simeon is quite correct, Dean: your claim that you are not acquainted with facts that have been widely disseminated in the public domain could only be ascribed to:
a) Wilful ignorance,
b) Naivety and laziness, or
c) Disingenuousness.
Note that none of the possibilities enumerated above are a particularly good look.
If you are genuinely interested in the truth of the matter, you should do a bit of research – you might be surprised by what you discover. I must admit that as I myself have watched this saga unfold, I have been staggered by the on-going revelations of Kong’s deliberately deceptive behaviour and thoroughly shameful conduct over an extended period of time.
It’s really too bad that Kong didn’t take the same approach as Phil Pringle, who has been cunning enough to confine himself to fleecing the flock without resorting to anything illegal – always remember: slow and steady wins the prosperity pimp prize.
Or d) waiting until the court has made its judgement.
I have read the reports you have.
Why do some Christians feel the need to trash and character assassinate other Christians? It’s almost like they enjoy it.
D….Nick DImitris did plead guilty. All he is waiting for is sentencing. You hung on to him regardless of guilt. No need to wait Sweetman. Just ditch him now. He’s guilty right?
G’day Dean,
“I have read the reports you have.”
If that is the case, then you would be well aware of certain facts. For example, you would know that Kong Hee strenuously denied that Sun’s career was being bankrolled by CHC, and that he threatened to sue Roland Poon for making claims to the contrary. Now that Kong has been found out, he has changed his tune, and is agreeing that yes, CHC did fund Sun’s failed venture in Hollywood, but really that’s OK, because it was part of the “Crossover Project”.
So what does this say about the integrity and behaviour of Kong Hee? That fact that he has lied regarding this matter is not at all surprising, since, as Jim has already pointed out, Kong has form for lying: he lied to his followers when he told them that Jesus was rich – a bare-faced lie about the Son of God, a lie that was told in order to further Kong’s own selfish ends. Kong has lied about his academic credentials – his supposed “Doctorate” is nothing of the sort, having come from a diploma mill in the U.S (Which Phil Pringle and Gordon Moore also have from the same place). Kong has also been shown to be dishonest when he was caught out plagiarising.
I’m not hurting people by saying this. The people being hurt most are those waking up to the truth about Kong Hee’s spiritual nature. To them, Kong is not someone they trust anymore.
… And didn’t Jesus educate us on how to discern who is of the Father of Lies?
@ Dean Sweetman
The gospel presentation by Sun on this trip is amazing, the subtlety elusive but surely there? Forgive the sarcasm, but again I’m reminded of those truly suffering for their faith in the Middle East at the moment.
And it was not about what she’s wearing but seeing those shopping bags we now know where the money went?
The cameraman filmed an interesting, soon to be fulfilled “prophetic word” at the 1:41 mark?
“If stupidity got us into this mess, then why can’t it get us out?”
@Dean Sweetman – well known humanists/atheists Bill Gates and George Soros have a reputation for helping the poor and orphaned too.
May I suggest it’s the true gospel that is the answer, and not a WOF/prosperity hybrid espoused by Kong Hee and friends…..
Berean, so what. I might not agree with their world view or use their products but the Gates Foundation has done more to eradicate poverty than another other institution in history. Through education and free vaccines alone, some interesting facts for you here. http://www.gatesfoundation.org/Who-We-Are/General-Information/Foundation-Factsheet
If you have done something is this vicinity or a fraction there of, let me know. Until then it might be better to keep your jugements to your self and stop giving Christianity a bad name with your myopic and closed viewpoints.
I agree with you, the true gospel is the only answer. It’s a gospel I have seen Ps Kong & Sun preach and practice many times.
It’s great that you are corresponding with “those basement bloggers” Dean.
“I agree with you, the true gospel is the only answer. It’s a gospel I have seen Ps Kong & Sun preach and practice many times.” – Dean
And what is that gospel Dean? We would love to hear it. Lets see if we can find common ground. Please provide appropriate definitions where necessary so there is no confusion.
Hi Dean
It’s good to see your presence here. It means that C3 pastors and leaders everywhere are checking out what this website are doing. I don’t think there’s too many Chinese whispers here; you’ll find most people (including myself) either attend a c3, or did. So hopefully it’s a wake up call to most.
In fact I have met you, and have enjoyed your preaching. I’m not here to swipe at you; not gonna raise the Ashville thing because it doesn’t involve me. What I do want to say, especially after talking to some others in c3, is that people outside aren’t taking the senior leaders seriously anymore. I have altered some of my opinions about Phil. Eg – why deliberately take up at offering at Presence for Kong, and say it’s for his legal fees? Wouldn’t you like to know what he’s been charged with first? I guarantee if he’s convicted and goes to jail, some people will be wanting their money back.
Another popular belief is that Phil will take over CHC if Kong is convicted.
Actually I’d like to hear your opinion to theologically back up Kong’s “7 reasons Jesus was rich”; it’s a complete twisting of the Bible. It is false teaching, pure and simple. I fall short of calling him a false teacher because I’m too nice.
As I opened with, not all c3 churches or pastors are the same. I know some who are doing very well, and whom I would bet a beer on that if the c3 brand goes south very quickly, they will disassociate themselves and go solo. Yet there are many, many people in the denomination who are blinded to what’s going on. Someone I know recently posted a photo of Kong Hee on social media and said “Awesome leader”. It took much restraint from me to not write “Alleged fraudster of $40 million”.
So anyway Dean my point is – people are waking up to some of the things going on in the movement. You can find a lot of this on the website. I personally know that many people have left a particular c3 because the push on money was so hard. Fortunately the leadership saw this and have now tamed it down, which I have witnessed. It’s not about building big buildings with layered seating, giant LCD’s on the walls with multimedia playing in the background while you’re trying to worship. Well, actually it is.
Hope everything is going well for you over there and that you see people saved and raised on good doctrine.
P.S. I would love to see what would happen in a c3 church if there was no preaching or mention about money for 1 month. Just say “we’re ready to take up the offering (no mention of tithes!!), the band will play a song”
Well, it’s good to be interacting I guess.
Glad you enjoyed my preaching. As far as not mentioning Asheville, you already have. Its what got me seeing your site initially. I read with horror the misinterpretation of the facts. I think your headline was “Sweetmans say/do nothing”. Nothing could be farther from the truth. You really do need to with hold comment on things where you know little about the situation. In my experience the sources you use are very tainted and you willingly blog from a very uninformed position. Biblically this probably falls in the gossip category.
In another situation you called for “people to contact you” who had more information. You had no information and were just trolling the Internet for lies and unsubstantiated innuendo. This is not very honest [Edited: C3CW].
I know of at least two occasions where very uninformed people read your blog and personal attacks and were children bullying children of pastors in C3. Nice going. Your quest for the “truth” actually has consequences.
Your ongoing rants about Ps Kong’s trial and Ps Phil’s involvment with CHC is again pure speculation. Does Phil Pringle speak at CHC? Yes, Is Phil Pringle advising CHC and helping guide it through this difficult time? Yes. But that’s about it as far as I know.
What happens in the future? No body knows yet. You can inform your readers that Phil is a father in the faith to Kong. You can inform your readers Kong is obviously facing some very serious charges from the Singapore government and that he is innocent until proven guilty. That Phil Pringle is advising and praying for Kong as we all are.
Regarding messages Kong or Phil or I have preached about any subject, money included, I’m sure we could argue for many pages and hours. Ill leave that for the scholars and much smarter people than me. I look for the motive and fruit of people, words and deeds. I might be wrong but I never see you writing about the fruit and harvest that has been reaped for the Kingdom of God. Thousands make decisions for Christ at CHC, in July alone in C3 Churches over 650 people a week made a decision to respond to a call for salvation. Don’t see that getting much of a mention. And of course that happens because people trust the stewardship of the leadership and tithe and give offerings.
The vast, and I mean vast majority of C3 Church pastors and leaders are God fearing and honest people, working together to build the church. Over more than 30 years we have had some unscrupulous types who have sought to preach the gospel for personal gain. We have had some ministers fall morally. Some are restored back into ministry, some marriages are saved but not all.
[Edited: C3CW], some times we cover the family and choose to deal with these things internally. From my pastoral experience it gives you the best chance for the best outcome. Other times we have swiftly moved to stand down a minister for violations of our policies.
To your last comments, I personally don’t speak about giving beyond a quick exaltation on a weekly basis. Twice a year I present the churches needs for expansion and ask members to freely give above and beyond. This is how it is in all the churches I visit.
Glad to be having this dialogue. I think I speak for many informed people in C3 Church when I say, your blog posts can be very harmful to young and uninformed Christians. Your words also have ramifications beyond your initial intent. When under the guise of “exposing the truth” you speculate, personally attack and foster Internet gossip you actually hurt the body of Christ.
As a movement C3 Church is growing faster than ever before. We are planting more churches than ever. It’s is a great time for Gods Kingdom.
[Edited: C3CW], keep your blog factual, hold off on the personal attacks, and think about the ramifications of what you write. Ill stay in touch.
Dean Sweetman has chosen to dialogue with people on C3 Church Watch. This is not only a courageous move but also considerate. Even though you may disagree with Dean and his practices, please do your best to respect him. Any name calling will be edited. Rude comments will not be posted up.
The best thing anyone can do is ask questions so we can understand one another. If we are willing to receive answers and criticisms from C3, pray they too have an ear to hear how they can clean up their image. We can all repent from sins that we are not aware of committing. Dean has approached people on this blog respectfully. Please do likewise.
Thanks.
To your question of my interpretation of the gospel (doctrine of salvation) this would do it.
http://carm.org/essential-doctrines-of-christianity
Thank you Dean. We appreciate you clarifying your position on what the gospel is. We are glad we can find common ground on the gospel. Let’s build up from here.
We also promote CARM.org to our readers and hope that you too are an avid reader of Matt Slick’s articles.
We also agree with that carm.org interpretation of the gospel. If you don’t mind, we would like to ask you a few more questions so we don’t misinterpret you in any way.
1. Do you agree with the carm.org definitions presented on its page?
2. Just so we do not misinterpret you, do you believe everything in that carm.org article?
3. Is there anything you wish to add or subtract so we can understand your concept of what the gospel is?
4. Would you say that this presentation of the gospel on the carm.org website is what you and the C3 Church movement preach and do your best to uphold?
5. If you do agree that C3 preaches and upholds the biblical gospel presented on CARM, how long would you say C3 has upheld this gospel? Since 1980?
6. Would you say Phil Pringle would give us the same answer as you?
Thank you for your time. We hope you can respond to our questions so people can understand C3’s position on the central message of Christianity.
Here goes, be gentle with me.
1. Do you agree with the carm.org definitions presented on its page?
I have not read the whole website. The Jesus Saves tab is a thorouh outline of the human condition and the only answer for that human condition. I would classify this as an orthodox biblical position of which I fully agree. Re the link I posted, again, orthodox Christian doctrine of which I agree.
2. Just so we do not misinterpret you, do you believe everything in that carm.org article?
Yes.
3. Is there anything you wish to add or subtract so we can understand your concept of what the gospel is?
No
4. Would you say that this presentation of the gospel on the carm.org website is what you and the C3 Church movement preach and do your best to uphold?
Yes
5. If you do agree that C3 preaches and upholds the biblical gospel presented on CARM, how long would you say C3 has upheld this gospel? Since 1980?
Most defiantly.
6. Would you say Phil Pringle would give us the same answer as you?
Yes. I have watched up close for more than 30 years and have seen Phil Pringle present the gospel both publicly and privately.
C3 Church is much more conservative in its biblical interpretation than it first appears. Our ” style” might not be considered as such but if you scratch a little you will find a traditional belief to uphold the teachings of Christ and traditional Christian values.
@ Dean Sweetman – you say in answer to question 6. “Would you say Phil Pringle would give us the same answer as you?”
Your response – “Yes. I have watched up close for more than 30 years and have seen Phil Pringle present the gospel both publicly and privately.
C3 Church is much more conservative in its biblical interpretation than it first appears. Our ” style” might not be considered as such but if you scratch a little you will find a traditional belief to uphold the teachings of Christ and traditional Christian values.”
An hour ago someone commented on CHC Confessions Facebook wall, this person presumably attending a service today at City Harvest Church and live-blogging Phil Pringle as he does his usual monthly fill-in (see PP’s itinerary). Now I can check this later on CHC archives to verify but for now let’s take this blogger’s comment to heart.
—————————————————————————————————————
“I am amazed how Phil Pringle can tweak the Bible in such a manner, that everything seemed to be talking about ‘multiplies’, ‘prosper’ and ‘blessings from God’.
1 Kings 18:33-35 was used during offering as a tool today.
Pringle:
3 years of drought done by God to get the attention of the people. 400 prophets dances and scream whole day long. Nothing happened. (Explains sentence)
Breakthrough, say breakthrough.
Rain brings water. Elijah says pour out water. Water is very expensive due to 3 years of drought. Elijah is doing it 3 times.
Extravagant giving for extravagant breakthrough.
You might only see a hint of breakthrough, but dun underestimate the results.
But while we are waiting for God to give us something, we have to pour out the very thing we need the most (money) for God to give back to us (reference to Elijah’s story).
Maybe it’s good to multiply our givings. Let the Holy Spirit guide you (in your giving).
THIS IS OUT OF CONTEXT! GOD PUNISHED THE ISRAEL PEOPLE COS THEY ARE INTO IDOLATRY. GOD IS ANGRY WITH PEOPLE WHO WORSHIPS IDOL AND IS USING THE DROUGHT TO TEACH THE PEOPLE A LESSON. ELIJAH IS SHOWING HOW GOD IS STILL WITH THE PEOPLE. AND HOW GOD IS ABOVE ALL IDOLS AND ALL IDOLATRY THAT THE PEOPLE IN ISRAEL ARE WORSHIPING.”
—————————————————————————————————————
So Dean, would you agree Phil Pringle has done a little heresy two-step here? A term coined by good friend Bryan Wolfmueller, (well-grounded Lutheran pastor and sound exegete) described here:
“The Heresy Two-step starts with two feet on the text. The allusion must be given that the text is going to be taught on. Then a sliding step backwards is taken into an abstraction. You move from the text to an idea about the text or to a word in the text. Once the text is abstracted and a general principle or something along these lines is made. You can now wiggle around and go in any direction you want. You can make the text say whatever you want. Instead of teaching the text you are pontificating on this abstraction which was drawn from the text.”
Now this is a very helpful analysis especially for discerning false teachers, and Dean, it would seem your good friend Phil Pringle is a very skilled dancer.
Perhaps you should pass this helpful clip (and the software) along to him?
Link to CHC Confessions comment on Phil Pringle eisegeting 1 Kings 18:33-35 at City Harvest Church Singapore this weekend….
Hi John,
Sorry for not answering you, I’ve been traveling.
Regarding C3 Asheville, I would say that not all your information is correct. You have a big part but not the whole picture.
People get hurt in church life which as a pastor I hate. Sometimes decisions are made that church members don’t agree with.
All I can say at this stage is that we are awaiting the outcome of the trial and are hopeful things will be resolved favorably for all concerned.
Dean
thats fine but the truth is that there will be no repentance from the c3 cult they they think they are right and anyone that disagrees with them as wrong. thats the nature of cults. their leader phil pringle does not have the holy spirit he has a demonic spirit calles himself a prophet of God and is a liar. he refuses to tell the truth about kh and asks people for money making out that kh is being persecuted by the law. phil pringle tells his congregation they are cursed if they dont tithe.
@ Dean Sweetman – you say “Thousands make decisions for Christ at CHC, in July alone in C3 Churches over 650 people a week made a decision to respond to a call for salvation.”
Ever heard the term “decisional regeneration”?
Finneyism?
http://www.spurgeon.org/~phil/articles/finney.htm
And is it biblical? Who chooses, man or God?
What prompts repentance? The gospel.
What precedes repentance? Hearing the gospel.
Who preaches the gospel? A pastor well-versed in that same gospel as he preaches verse by verse through the texts that breaks the sinner’s heart, that Word being activated by the Holy Spirit.
Who hears the gospel? Those chosen in Him before the foundation of the earth and Jesus will lose none that the Father has given him.
Dean, there are many of us who spent years in churches like yours, convinced the “man of God” was anointed to preach, believing that a few verses (always out of context) with an altar call tacked on the end, saved souls teetering on the brink of hell and that only the “man of God” could save them.
Yet all they hear, apart from those out of context verses, is their “best life now”, the unbiblical vision-casting of that same “man of God”.
http://mikeratliff.wordpress.com/2013/05/21/is-vision-casting-biblical/
The promise of greater blessing with the tithe, even told their money is cursed if they don’t. Cue Malachi at this point.
Unfortunately, many of those “altar call” folks are no longer there.
Why?
Because they were unregenerate!
But never mind – the door is wide open to receive more who go into eternity convinced they are saved, helped along by the much touted external stimuli of loud repetitive music that apparently indicates the presence of the Holy Spirit (really?) along with much waiting for that next hand to rise because God has told the “man of God” there’s one more, one more…..
There’s a certain wickedness at work here. Be part of the answer Dean, and not the problem.
And Dean – in closing, let the senior team know that posting photos of themselves sailing and dining around the Mediterranean on a yacht is hardly appropriate in light of the many Christians dying a martyr’s death in Egypt and Syria.
Don’t listen to those who say you deserve it – you don’t. There’s too much at stake, including your own accountability.
Sorry C3 did not work out for you. Hope you found a good church home.
Sorry, I don’t play any roll in the salvation of lost sinners. I present the gospel, spread the seed and depending on their heart condition they receive it or not. Jesus because of the finished work of the cross does the graceful work of salvation.
It has nothing to do with anointing or “being a man of God” you share it, they believe it or they don’t. Pretty simple.
Your Calvinistic views aside, only two people know if that person is really repentant. The person who asked by faith and God who knows all things from the foundation of the world. All other opinion by anyone else is meaningless.
phil pringle sacked pastor phil taylor because phil taylor disagreed with him and pt commenced industrial relations complaint against pp who then to protect himself put pt at ryde c3 where he is out of the way. the list goes on and on. i have no respect for the c3 cult they are full of worldly pride and do not preach the true gospel. sun ho has the jezebel spirit and her behaviour is ungodly.
they are brainwashed deceived and unclean
@ Dean – I’m sure you have heard that expression “when you point your finger at someone, there are three fingers are pointing back at you?”
We were once part of that problem, with our own heartbreaking accountability…..
I’m not sure what this means. You lost me.
It means we were once part of a team that followed instructions and teachings passed down from senior leadership that influenced others into thinking they were saved.
In other words a false gospel. We were part of the problem.
If you read the 6:11am comment above clearly, I never suggested you “play any roll in the salvation of lost sinners.”
Salvation is monergistic not synergistic.
“Those of mankind that are predestinated unto life, God, before the foundation of the world was laid, according to his eternal and immutable purpose, and the secret counsel and good pleasure of his will, hath chosen in Christ, unto everlasting glory, out of his free grace and love alone, without any foresight of faith or good works, or perseverance in either of them, or any other thing in the creature, as conditions, or causes moving him thereunto; and all to the praise of his glorious grace” Westminster Confession of Faith
I get it, you’re a Calvinist. Cool. I’m an Arminicalvinist.
Some are full Arminists.
My view, God provides the grace, we provide the faith.
We will fine out one day 😉
Hey Dean, serious question – what is the official c3 stance on predestination? I’ve heard a c3 leader openly say they believe in it. Or would you say it’s a personal matter?
Cya
To my knowledge we have no official position on predestination. It would be a matter of personal belief.