2013 Global Presence Conference, c3, C3 Christian City Church Oxford Falls, c3 global, c3 oxford falls, C3i, ccc, ccc Presence Conference, ccci, cccof, CHC, Christian City Church, city harvest, City Harvest Church, global presence conference, Global Presence Conference 2013, Kong Hee, Phil Pringle, Presence Conference, prophesy, stadium, stadiums, visualise
This year at the 2013 C3 Global Presence Conference, Kong Hee made the following comment.
“I’ve learnt one thing about Pastor Phil: he’s a prophet of God. He’s very dangerous when he tells you that this building is created for you or built for you or developed for you. Because in 1995, he said the same thing to me. He said, “The SunTec Convention Center is- developed for you”.
And then, I just checked a video a few years- uh, just recently, Pastor Phil. In the year 2000 I think. Or 2001. You spoke to our entire congregation. And you said, “You know what? You guys are going to SunTec Convention Center”. And so we did. And all the troubles began.
So it’s all your fault, Pastor!” – Kong Hee, C3 Global Presence Conference, Day 1, Session 1, 2013.
Kong has made it clear that Phil Pringle has been saying that he will own the SunTec Convention Center. So why did Kong Hee mislead his congregation into thinking CHC would be moving into stadiums? Why was he purposely deceiving people rather than stating to his congregation that he had in mind of owning the Convention Center?
Here are some CHC members recalling a specific event where Kong Hee was misleading them into thinking they were going to moving into a future stadium.
“All the figures revealed about the expenditures for “Crossover” project are mind blowing!
What irks me is that Pastor Kong preached that the Arise and Build was for building God a great house, he showed pictures of huge stadiums even just prior to the point of announcing Suntec. And so we gave our best, our bonuses, our savings, our holidays.
Now we hear from their own mouths that all the money went into the Crossover. We’ve been executive members for more than 10 years and this is the first time we hear about our BF money being used for other purposes. We had to hear it from the courts!
To set the record straight, we never knew or even agreed for such use of the BF. We were all hoodwinked. We were all lied to. This is criminal. Since they have already admitted to using our BF in this manner, not for its original intended purpose, we are now considering a class action suit to get our money back plus damages. If Eng Han can get his all back, so should we. We don’t need to wait for the trail to be over. Anyone else with us? Any lawyers here to advise?
Looking at all the finances for the Crossover, something looks fishy. The amounts seems unusually inflated even for Hollywood standards. It obviously included non crossover expenses like Kong’s travel of $700k. I can’t help wonder if the amount paid to the people to work with Sun was exactly as stated or there is a mark up, commissions and middle man fees for a invisible go between, with the money lining the pockets of Kong and his team. They are surely capable of that!”
Source: CHC Confessions, Faecbook, https://www.facebook.com/CHCConfessions/posts/660357897316924, 30/08/2013. (Accessed 02/09/2013.)
Another CHC member wrote:
City Harvest Stadium?!?
After Pastor Kong Hee shared last week, about no longer just settling for any ol’ auditorium or concert hall… I think it is in the heart-beat of every City Harvest Church member:
GIVE US THAT STADIUM!!!
Hahaha!!! Especially when Pastor showed us the pictures of all the photos… WOW! It is absolutely mind-boggling & faith-stretching… but at the same time, very exciting!
This is my absolute favourite…
The Allianz Arena in Munich… Just look at the size of that!
So it is time for us all to see the great JOY ahead of us! 🙂
Source: Posted by Sandra, City Harvest Stadium?!?, http://sanses.com/2007/10/city-harvest-stadium-2/,31/10/2007. (Accessed 02/09/2013.)
We think the video we have below is what these commentors may be referring too. (Pay special attention to Kong encouraging people to use the New Age technique of visualisation.)
Visualisation? I’ll hazard a guess and suggest Kong Hee is using Romans 4:17 (out of context) to persuade his followers that through the force of faith they can call things that are not, as though they were.
Are they being led to believe that they can create reality by speaking these stadiums into existence? If he is, this being the standard practice of WOF churches, when we examine the immediate context surrounding Romans 4:17 we see it says nothing of the sort. To the contrary, Paul says that it is the God who gives life, and He calls things that are not as if they were –
The Promise Realized Through Faith – Romans 4:13-25 = context, context, context.
“For the promise to Abraham and his offspring that he would be heir of the world did not come through the law but through the righteousness of faith. For if it is the adherents of the law who are to be the heirs, faith is null and the promise is void. For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression.
That is why it depends on faith, in order that the promise may rest on grace and be guaranteed to all his offspring—not only to the adherent of the law but also to the one who shares the faith of Abraham, who is the father of us all, as it is written, “I have made you the father of many nations”—in the presence of the God in whom he believed, who gives life to the dead and calls into existence the things that do not exist.
In hope he believed against hope, that he should become the father of many nations, as he had been told, “So shall your offspring be.” He did not weaken in faith when he considered his own body, which was as good as dead (since he was about a hundred years old), or when he considered the barrenness[c] of Sarah’s womb. No unbelief made him waver concerning the promise of God, but he grew strong in his faith as he gave glory to God, fully convinced that God was able to do what he had promised. That is why his faith was “counted to him as righteousness.” But the words “it was counted to him” were not written for his sake alone, but for ours also. It will be counted to us who believe in him who raised from the dead Jesus our Lord, who was delivered up for our trespasses and raised for our justification.”
Dean Sweetman said:
Berean, faith is both a simple and complex subject. As in the Calvinism/Arminist positions the doctrine of faith is varied and wide reaching. Your continued attacks on someone’s interpretation of scripture has no end.
What you call heresy or cult like beliefs another calls sound biblical doctrine.
I prefer to acknowledge different doctrinal interpretations, accept that I might not have all the answers and focus on helping people realize they need Jesus Christ and that believing on Him is the only answer. CHC is committed to just that. The fruit is real, the changed lives and too many to document. That’s just a fact.
Keep judging if you like but creating division in the body of Christ only makes the task of reaching the lost harder.
The Narrowing Path said:
Why is it when I read this article I think of the Tower of Babel. Random. How deceived these people are that the talk of building (or even filling) massive stadiums doesn’t ring alarm bells. How on earth can a shepherd guard his flock when he has filled a stadium with them. About as well as a feed-lot owner with no conscience can care for his?
People are so dazzled by the “proof” of church growth, worldwide popularity and wild claims about visions from ‘god’ that they can’t see the darkness of false doctrine in the glare of the stage lights. Keep turning those stage lights down and exposing the darkness beneath.
Dean Sweetman said:
What’s wrong with filling a stadium, preaching the gospel and leading people to Christ? I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want that to happen.
“I don’t understand why you wouldn’t want that to happen.”
It’s not a case of “not wanting that to happen”; it’s a case of knowing that it won’t happen.
The chain of events would in fact proceed as follows:
(1) A stadium would be filled.
(2) A false gospel would be preached.
(3) Not a single person would be led to Christ.
The end result would be that multitudes would be eternally lost, and the false teachers would be held accountable and harshly judged – and rightly so.
I can’t for the life of me understand why you would want that to happen.
However, I am well aware that you have never in your life seen the true Gospel preached in the power of the Holy Spirit – because if you had, you would have repented long ago in dust and ashes, and you would not for one minute be taken in by the vain and empty blusterings of self-interested mealy-mouthed pretenders whose pomposity is exceeded only by their shallowness.
The Narrowing Path said:
That is a fair question, so I will try to answer it. We may still disagree, but at least you may better understand why my heart breaks for these people.
I believe that the Gospel this man preaches is a false gospel. This false gospel leads people to a false Christ, and a false Christ cannot save anyone.
I don’t make this claim lightly, but rather after much study of the Bible, seeking the wise counsel of godly men and pastors (including my father, a retired missionary, pastor and Bible college lecturer), and a lot of prayer. I did not seek to find fault in anyone else’s teachings, and was for a long time in my own spiritual darkness. It is only by God’s grace and the work of the Holy Spirit that my eyes were opened to the false teachings I had believed.
When I see talk of stadiums being filled and a false gospel preached, I know that many of those supposedly converted will leave still in darkness. What’s worse, they won’t even know it. This fills me with great sadnes and a sense of urgency to raise awareness and get people talking about these issues.
I know many people who have been deceived by false teachings and by the grace of God have been saved in due course. But it is always a painful process, one accompanied with deep regret, repentance and tears (and of course, joy!!). I do not subscribe to the pragmatic view that some people hold, which is that if a pastor or movement is popular and people seem to be getting saved en masse, then it must be of God. The Scriptures clearly teach that as this age draws to a close, there will be increasing and terrible deception within the Church. I have no doubt that Kong Hee is part of that deception, and pray that he will repent and turn to the true Jesus Christ.
Our Lord in his Word commands us to know our Scriptures, to recognise false teachers, and to speak out against their teachings. We are also called to speak the truth in love to others. At the same time, we can care deeply and pray for their repentance and salvation. But we cannot have fellowship with false teachers, or endorse their books, conferences, TV shows or music. Our God is a jealous God, and demands faithfulness and obedience from his people.
I am not commenting on these posts to be unkind, nor do I presume to know the eternal destiny of anyone else. However, I have little tolerance for wolves making merchandise of people, and this issue is a pressing one here in Australia. I am watching churches being torn apart by the divisive that comes with false teachings. There are brothers and sisters in Christ around the world who are witnessing the same thing. The Scriptures clearly teach that our unity is found Christ, and that divisiveness and discord comes with allowing false teachings and false teachers into our churches.
Never have I seen this truth more starkly displayed than in the difference between my last church (where the false teachings were being embraced at an alarming rate), and my current church (which preaches the whole counsel of God in line with orthodox Christianity). Many false claims are made about orthodox Christianity and the churches that preach it. However, I have witnessed the beauty of true unity in Christ at the orthodox church I attend, and it is truly glorious to behold. I have seen the Holy Spirit working powerfully (in accordance with what Scripture teaches) through the faithful preaching of the Word in orthodox cogregations around the world, and in through the loving fellowship of the saints. How could I not want this for all my brothers and sisters in Christ? I hope this explains my position more clearly! Blessings in Christ, Sherryn
“I believe that the Gospel this man preaches is a false gospel. This false gospel leads people to a false Christ, and a false Christ cannot save anyone.”
I refer you to Kong’s “9 Reason Jesus Wasn’t Poor”. This is NOT a “different interpretation” of Scripture. It is blatant twisting and misuse. Go on, have a listen! I would like to hear anyone critique it in a way that confirms it is legitimate “different interpretation”.
The Narrowing Path said:
Is this comment directed at Dean? If so, Dean I will leave you to answer it. 🙂
God clearly does not take lightly to his word being ‘interpreted’ by man.
A recent program by Chris Rosebrough demonstrates this clearly in relation to the Pharisees, and Jesus’ condemnation of them:
I am not here to call others ‘pharisee’. However, Jesus mightily condemned them and was very clear about WHY. I learned a lot from this lecture, and hope someone here will be blessed by it too!
God gave us his infallible, inerrant Holy Scriptures, preserved in its written form over many centuries. He also made it relatively straightforward for us to understand, through the power of his Holy Spirit. It is a fallacy that there are wide and yet acceptable ‘differences of interpretation’ of the Scriptures. This is simply not true. As the Lord Jesus himself said, narrow is the path and the small is the gate that leads to salvation and few will find it. The core doctrines of Christianity have never changed. Neither has man’s wilful insistence in creating his own gods and exalting himself. What has changed is man’s definition of what ‘core doctrine’ means. But God doesn’t change, neither does his Word. That should be a sobering (and encouraging) thought to all of us!
Oh sorry, yeah this was directed to Dean for his discernment. I quoted the wrong text.
@ The Narrowing Path – that’s a great link. I’m a listener to Fighting For The Faith.
Interesting you picked up on the term “differences of interpretation” – that bothered me too.
Reminds me of the scriptures in 2 Peter 1:16-20, “For we did not follow cleverly devised myths when we made known to you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, but we were eyewitnesses of his majesty. For when he received honor and glory from God the Father, and the voice was borne to him by the Majestic Glory, “This is my beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased,” we ourselves heard this very voice borne from heaven, for we were with him on the holy mountain. And we have the prophetic word more fully confirmed, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.”
And 1 Cor 14:33 “God is not the author of confusion”
There is only one true meaning and that’s the Author’s intent. Isolating verses and ignoring the context is a practice all too popular today and certainly what we began to notice before we left C3. Sadly when we asked questions about this, the only response we got was the mantra “it’s all good”.
To be sure it was our responsibility, during our time there, to be discerning and “berean”, but I’ve since realized there was, and is, a sad lack of theological training among those given the pulpit – style over substance being the acceptable methodology. Making, as you said elsewhere, a horde of false converts.
However this is nothing new, as the early church was warned also……
2 Peter 3:15-16 “And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures.”
The Narrowing Path said:
@ Simeon. Just checking 🙂
@ Berean. Thank you, those verses were very helpful and clearly illustrate the problem of those would defend ‘different interpretations’.
What people fail to realise (as did I for most of my life) is that there is only one interpretation, as you so clearly demonstrate in your response…the author’s intent. And since the author is God himself, through human writers, we should approach interpretation of his Word with fear and trembling! We have no more right to come up with our own fanciful interpretations as we do to decide how we will worship our holy God. We cannot simply do want we want and expect that God will sanctify it because we mean well, are ‘on fire for God’ or any other man-driven purpose.
A question…do any of you have any experience with Hillsong? I have received from a pastor in the UK a request to publish more articles on this cultic movement. I have some knowledge of the teachings of Brian Houston, but would like some Australians who could contribute articles or information for the blog. If you think this sounds like something you could contribute to based on your knowledge or experience of Hillsong, please send me a message at my blog. If there is an Australian blog addressing the Hillsong issues, please let me know! Thanks. 🙂
“If there is an Australian blog addressing the Hillsong issues, please let me know!”