Recently the ‘Mrs Light And Friends’ website published a transcript from CHC’s Advisory ‘Pastor’, A.R. Bernard. The publisher decided to critique the transcript along the way. However, before reading the article, we would like our readers to read 1 Samuel chapters 24 and 26. It is interesting to note that Bernard placed supposed critics of Kong Hee as ‘Davids’ and placed Kong Hee as the guilty villain ‘King Saul’.
A.R. Bernard stated,
“Scripture is very clear on how issues are supposed to be dealt with in the house of God. And there is an honour and a respect that should come for the leadership who is anointed by God. And even David understood this. In spite of the conflict that he had with Saul, he understood that the man, Saul, was anointed king and he had to respect that and let God take His course in dealing with whatever issues are present.”
“SCRIPTURE IS VERY CLEAR…” SUBMIT TO KING KONG
It’s odd that “Apostle” A.R. Bernard decided to turn to a vague scripture to support his false doctrine on church leadership. Rather than focus on scriptures in the New Testament on how a members should behave when a pastor supposedly misbehaves, Bernard instead chose to insert Kong Hee into the position of KING Saul in the Old Testament account. The situation he wanted readers to focus on was where King Saul was actually guilty of trying to murder David. Out of all the scriptural passages he could have used, why did Bernard try to imply that Kong Hee was a guilty King Saul?
No where in scripture is it ever taught that a pastor is a king.
“ANOINTED BY GOD…”
It’s worth quickly commenting on Bernard’s focus on who to honour and respect when it comes to church leadership. Jesus and his apostles had no tolerance for wolves, false apostles, teachers and prophets. A.R. Bernard, Kong Hee and Phil Pringle would fall under these names by Jesus and his Apostles: dogs, brood of vipers, wolves, unclean, gangrene, whitewashed tombstones, thieves, hirelings, blasphemers, apostates, workers of iniquity, agents of Satan, etc.
You get the idea when you read the New Testament that Jesus and his apostles showed no respect or honour to false men. Likewise, members of CHC should not show respect or honour to deceitful men.
We have covered A.R. Bernard and Kong Hee’s false teaching on C3ChurchWatch. Check out our archives and hear them for yourselves. If you are not convinced that we did an adequate job, pull out your bible and do the work. (Feel free to use our advertised biblical resources). Test everything they say in the name of God to the Word of God. Who are you going to believe? It is Gods Word against their own.
“EVEN DAVID UNDERSTOOD THIS…”
A.R. Bernard stated that David, “understood that the man, Saul, was anointed king and he had to respect that and let God take His course in dealing with whatever issues are present”. This is a slick, subtle and deceitful teaching coming from Bernard.
Firstly, no one wants to kill Kong Hee. People want to see Kong Hee come clean.
Secondly, God did allow David to kill king Saul. In 1 Samuel 24:10 and 1 Samuel 26:23, David acknowledged that God did give him the option to kill King Saul twice. David said to Saul:
“This day you have seen with your own eyes how the Lord delivered you into my hands in the cave…”
“The Lord delivered you into my hands today…”
What did David want? Justice. Did he get justice? Yes.
David accused and criticised (i.e blogged), King Saul of trying to kill him. Notice that David did touch the “Anointed One”. In his first incident with Saul, David cut off a corner of the king’s garment and waved it around as proof that he could have killed him. The second time, he stole King Saul’s spear and water jug. Once again he proved he could have killed Saul. David wasn’t silent and submissive. Nor was he respecting or honouring King Saul the way A.R. Bernard would want CHC members to honour and respect Kong Hee. But what did Saul do that Kong Hee hasn’t done?
If you read 2 Samuel 24 and 26, you would quickly realise that King Saul was GUILTY and both times REPENTED and confessed his error to David:
“You have treated me well, but I have treated you badly.” 2 Samuel 24:17
“I have sinned. Come back, David my son. Because you considered my life precious today, I will not try to harm you again. Surely I have acted like a fool and have been terribly wrong.” 2 Samuel 26:21
We see in 2 Samuel that David saw justice through Saul’s repentance. What did David understand and want? Justice. Did David get justice? Yes.
However, Kong Hee has not repented of his false teachings, his plagiarism, his double speak, his bible twisting, his lies and deceit behind the pulpit, or of his immoral wife parading herself like a prostitute in her dirty music video clip “China Wine”.
Whether Kong Hee is found guilty in court is another matter.
Furthermore, if Kong Hee wants to maintain any integrity as a “Christian”, he needs to repent like Saul and step down over his immoral and deceptive conduct as a leader.
At the end of the day, the difference between King Kong and King Saul is the fact that when both faced criticism and charges, King Saul came clean and repented.
THE TRANSCRIPT
There are a lot of deceptive tactics employed by A.R. Bernard in the below transcript. We may look at this in another article. Otherwise we may discuss this in the comment section below.
Mrs Light And Friends writes,
Outcome – Meeting with Dr AR Bernard
I have asked Eng Han about the outcome of A.R. Bernard meeting. He held his peace and didn’t want to talk about it. The other person who attended the meeting with him also didn’t want to make any comments. I was told the content of the meeting is private and confidential. I think many people would want to know, but I couldn’t get Eng Han to comment so I decided to type A.R. Bernard message and my personal comments in blue. If possible please discern yourself.
The following is the transcript of Dr AR Bernard message preached on 21st September 2013:
Let me uh, speak to you apostolically and from the position of a spiritual advisor [to] Pst Kong, Sun and CHC. This past week, on Monday evening, I had a meeting here in Singapore that was requested by several individuals. I was approached in the spirit of reconciliation, in the spirit of concern for the health and future of CHC. I listened, and I expressed the fact that I too am concerned about the health and future of CHC. I also expressed that I understood where they were coming from in the things that they shared. That meeting was in confidence, and the purpose of the meeting, as it was presented to me, was to follow the pattern of Matthew chapter 18, where it says that if you have an offence with a brother, that you go to them. It was told to me that that first step was taken. And the next step was to bring a witness. So it presented to me for the purpose of, and the spirit of, reconciliation.
I expressed to these individuals that I met with, that 1) I will not be used or manipulated by anyone to further their agenda. At the end of the meeting I also expressed and warned that they should abstain from slander, that they should abstain from gossip, because if they engage in it, then as far as I’m concerned, they destroy their credibility in my eyes, and the credibility of anything that they have to say.
AR Bernard warned us not to slander and gossip!
I want you to know that just because I sat down and listened to what they had to say, and told them that I will pray about it and get back to them with next steps, it does not mean in any way that I endorse their agenda, endorse their position, or endorse anything that they’re trying to accomplish.
I listened, as a statesman, and my next step was to sit down and have a wonderful conversation with Pst Kong and Pst Sun.
I wondered when?
So. There is a process in place for individuals who really don’t like the way things are going at CHC. And see, I’m from New York, so we’re very confrontational and in your face, so when you come to me, be prepared to put the cards on the table and deal with it. But that’s me.
So I’m telling you what took place this week. And if these individuals are sincere and legitimate, then they will take a next step to arrange a good sit-down meeting in the spirit of reconciliation, and really honour the leadership of this house, Pst Kong and Sun.
I recited what A.R Bernard has said, “I have a low tolerance for foolishness”. Didn’t Eng Han already told A.R Bernard that he had already sat down 4hours meeting with Pst Kong and Pst Sun many months ago? What was the outcome from that meeting? Perhaps Pst Kong or Pst Sun has repented to GOD only, BUT there is no restitution action from them. I think only a fool will arrange a sit-down meeting with them.
So I’ll be back some time at the beginning of next year, and I will have a follow-up announcement, and I will let you know how this all turns out.
Do you need high IQ to know how this all turns out? Well I know God has it plan, shall we see?
*crowd applauds*
Clap clap. Do you know the total expenses incurred to bring A.R Bernard? Ops I should abstain from gossiping.
When you have an issue with someone, especially with those at leadership, don’t go and talk to other people. Go to the person that you have a problem with. Thank you, I appreciate the three men I got. I’m serious, if you have a problem, you go and talk to them. You don’t go to other people, and, and in the disguise of, well, could you join me and pray. Because sometimes when we share things to be prayed about, it’s actually gossip in disguise. Turn to your neighbour and say he’s talking about somebody you know.
Heh, if you have problem with Eng Han, go to him and talk to him!
Scripture is very clear on how issues are supposed to be dealt with in the house of God. And there is an honour and a respect that should come for the leadership who is anointed by God. And even David understood this. In spite of the conflict that he had with Saul, he understood that the man, Saul, was anointed king and he had to respect that and let God take His course in dealing with whatever issues are present.
I am letting God take His course in dealing with whatever….
Let me share a verse of scripture with you. I never walk on this, is this safe?
Let me share a passage of scripture with you. So you’re gonna get 2 sermons tonight. This is the 1st one.
In the book of James chapter 3, verse 1. And I’m reading from the amplified bible and I hope you can put it up on the screen, the amplified bible, because if you don’t have this particular translation, I really want you to see it and get the flavor of it.
It’s a wonderful passage; it speaks about the responsibility of those that would teach others. But the way that it is expressed in the amplified bible is even more specific to the original Greek language and it’s implications. So let’s read it in verse 1.
“Not many of you should become teachers.” And I love the deeper shade of meaning here. “(Self constituted censures and reprovers of others), my brethren, for you know that we teachers will be judged by a higher standard and with greater severity than other people. Thus, we assume the greater accountability and the more condemnation.” By what we do.
V2 “For we all often stumble and fall and offend in many things. And if anyone does not offend in speech [never says the wrong things], he is a fully developed character and a perfect man, able to control his whole body and to curb his entire nature.”
Let us go to verse 17. Verse 17 speaks of the tone and spirit that one should have when engaged in reconciliation, when engaged in dealing with any issues that occur between brothers and sisters in the Lord.
It says this: “But the wisdom from above is first of all pure (undefiled); then it is peace-loving, courteous (considerate, gentle). [It is willing to] yield to reason, full of compassion and good fruits; it is wholehearted and straightforward, impartial and unfeigned (free from doubts, wavering, and insincerity).”
Now, I present those verses to you because that is the spirit in which we resolve any issues between brothers and sisters, between leadership at any level, within the church of Jesus Christ.
You are in a very, very – I’d like to say interesting, but – but you’re in a very interesting place. Because God did not raise up CHC or bring you this far to leave you. He has a reason, a purpose for your existence, and He raised up an individual, infused that individual with a vision. They became the visionary, and of course, they became the fuel, the energy behind the vision. And when God called Pst Kong and Sun, I have a strong feeling He knew all about them. He knew their strengths, He knew their weaknesses. He knew, over the years, where this ministry would come to. And unlike people, God remains faithful. God is good even when things are bad. God is faithful even when we are unfaithful and make mistakes. So if anyone comes to you and has anything to say about this leadership, or about this ministry, you test to make sure that it is in the spirit of Godly wisdom that has been expressed in the scripture, and that they understand the responsibility that they take upon themselves, and they determine to reprove. Especially those that are in leadership.
God sets boundaries for order. And God is not the author of confusion. He is a God of order. Amen?
I thank God that He has allowed this CHC case to happen.
Now, is that ok that I express this with you guys? Up in the balcony, way up there, are we ok with this? Alright, I have a low tolerance for foolishness, and maybe it’s because I’m getting older, I don’t know. But the bottom-line is issues are to be dealt with upfront, on the table, in the open, and not behind closed doors.
So we will see, maybe folks will get mad at me tonight because of what I just said. Maybe I’ll be attacked.
God-fearing Christian already disgusted with AR Bernard, you don’t have to wait for tonight message to be attacked by people. See Churchwatcher in C3 & Pringles Associations website. Someone has already posted an article about AR Bernard integrity. Dated 17 Wednesday April 2013.
Maybe I’ll become famous and on the blogs. *crowd laughs* I don’t care. Simple as that. That’s the freedom, the authority that I walk in, in Christ. I don’t claim to be perfect. I have made my mistakes along the way, and if I could do some things differently, oh boy, would I. And if you wanna know the details of my mistakes, ask my wife, but I don’t want you to ask her. But we understand what it is to be committed, to be covenanted, and God is a God of covenant. Whether it’s between Him and people, or between people and people in the context of serving Him. Amen?
Now, Pst Kong, let me ask you a question. Come, come up here.
*crowd claps as Pst Kong goes on stage*
I hope you’ll invite me back to preach after all this, (inaudible).
You’ve been through a lot, and I know that for reasons of the trial, you have to be careful what you say. You have to be careful what you can respond to, what you can’t respond to.
Erm, because it can undermine what the attorneys of the church and the attorneys of all the individuals are trying to accomplish. And I think they’re trying to get you exonerated. I mean, I wouldn’t pay them if they weren’t trying to do that.
But I wanna make sure, because I’m here, I come and go. But I wanna make sure, so I’m asking you this publicly. You’ve had time to reflect. You’ve had time to look back. I know you’re not perfect, so you don’t have to tell me. I know that already. Sun told me already. *crowd laughs*
Don’t worry about it, we have covenant, you won’t get any information from her.
But as you look back, on hindsight, would you say that – I don’t know any other way to put this, so I’ll try to be as nice as I can – would you say that you made some dumb mistakes?
PK: Dumb mistakes? Absolutely.
ARB: Stupid?
PK: Stupid. Doctor Cole would say asinine.
ARB: Asinine, I like that even better. Thanks for reminding me.
Would you say that there were some areas of weakness in leadership, and the decision-making that you made, over time?
PK: Yes, doctor, ya.
ARB: So you’re not pretending to be innocent of being human. You’re not pretending to be innocent of making mistakes and unwise judgments along the way as all leaders (points to himself) do?
PK: Absolutely not.
ARB: I just wanna make sure because I don’t want anyone to, you know, have the impression because you stand up here and share the Word of God continuously – which is really hard to do given circumstances that you’re in, to be consistent with it – erm, how have you worked those mistakes out in your relationship with the Lord?
PK: Well, doctor I, I, the only way I know how to do it is bring all my problems, my mistakes, my oversight, my sins, in prayer, in repentance, and say Jesus, forgive me, cleanse me, help me never to commit those same mistakes ever again.
ARB: Have you done that?
PK: Doctor, all the time.
ARB: Again and again?
PK: Again and again. Not because I’m guilt conscious in any way, but… yeah, 3 years is a long time to reflect on 20 over years of ministry.
ARB: Yeah, it is. It really is. Now, he is nervous right now because he has no idea what I’m going to ask him.
So I’m gonna leave it there, alright? Because these people love you, they support you. They don’t think you’re perfect, Sun told them too. But when you embrace a leader, you embrace not only his spirituality; you embrace his humanity. They come together in 1 package. And there will always be something you may disagree with, not feel good about. But your commitment to God’s vision, and your love for that person, transcends those weaknesses, those faults. I love you. *hugs Pst Kong for a long time*
*Pst Kong leaves the stage*
Repentance to God only? What did you do to Eng Han and is still doing to him? Where is the restitution?
Come on, give your pastor a round of applause. *crowd gives standing ovation*
Come on, you can do better than that.
Thank you. You see the big smile on his face when he did that? It’s great when you have people that just love doing what they do for God. Amen?
Some of those times in our church, when the Spirit of God moves in a very specific and special way, I’m careful not to try to compete with that. So what is true at home, is true here. And as I sat there and observed for the first time, as you, the video, I felt that it would be unwise for me to try to build on that by giving you another preaching. I think that inherent in what we shared was a very deep and profound message about unity, about the body of Christ, about the spirit of reconciliation, and how things should be done.
Jesus loves us. And that may seem like a very light and even (some word 29:18) statement, but it is the very basis of our salvation. And the reason why Jesus is going to return to scoop us out of this world in which we live, is not because we’ve been so good. Not because we worship. Not because we prayed. Not because we’ve done anything to deserve His return. What’s going to bring Him back is the same love that brought Him the first time. And it’s that love, that great love, with which He loves us.
Let’s all stand right now, and you need to appreciate the leadership of this house, Pastor Kong Hee and his lovely wife, Sun. *another standing ovation* *Pst Kong and Sun clasp their hands and bow their heads*
Hallelujah!
And here’s what I tell people in New York: if you are in a church that you don’t like, and that you have a problem with the church and its leadership, your continued attendance becomes a testimony to your stupidity.
Because why in the world would you continue to reside in an environment that is deemed by you to be contrary to your spiritual growth and development? Here is a clue for you: Pray and ask God for another church. So you can go to that church *crowd applauds*. So that you can be an asset and not a liability. So that you can flourish in an environment that you’re comfortable with, not an environment that you’re contrary with.
That’s just common sense. And unfortunately, if common sense were so common, more people would have it.
Source: Outcome – Meeting with Dr AR Bernard, Mrs Light And Friends, http://mrslightnfriends.com/outcome-meeting-with-dr-ar-bernard, 23/09/2013. (Accessed 24/09/2013.)
ARB wants church leaders to be beyond reproach so that when his time come, he shall be treated the same way.
bunch of liars and hypocrits!
After seeing Kong Hee’s performance at Victory Life Church in Perth, WA today…..I’m pretty sure there is no repentance by this man….his lies continue in another church, another city, another nation! He is drumming up support….end of story! (see my comment in The Information Just Keeps Coming And Coming…)
he has no fear of God!
Wow, I saw something totally different. In the Q&A section AR Bernard asked some very direct questions and got some very honest answers.
You guys can’t even use your real names on a hate blog, so it is really you who have no credibility. Throwing anonymous bombs of criticism and hate is the epitome of cowardice. Try standing in front of 25,000 people and pouring your life out.
Hi Dean.
One foundational doctrine of Christianity is the doctrine of Total Depravity. (AKA the doctrine of original sin.) Do you believe and hold to this doctrine?
I am a Rom 3:23 guy. I do not adhere to Total Depravity as Augustine/Calvin do and TULIP Calvinists do.
I am an ArminiCalvinist. God provides the grace we provide the faith.
What do you mean when you say, “we provide the faith”? Where does that faith come from?
What do you mean when you say, “I am a Rom 3:23 guy” if you do not adhere “to Total Depravity as Augustine/Calvin do and TULIP Calvinists do”?
Dean,
Correction, I think you mean God provides the grace, you provide the ‘word of faith’.
Set Free, I am not a classic “word of faith” even though I would acknowledge being influenced by this doctrine early in my Christian walk.
Further, the faith everyone must act upon to enter into relationship with God is innate in Humans because we are made in His image.
No need to have an argument about predestination here. Smarter people than us have been doing it for a very long time with no real resolve between the “two camps”.
Hi Dean.
We asked you this question:
“One foundational doctrine of Christianity is the doctrine of Total Depravity. (AKA the doctrine of original sin.) Do you believe and hold to this doctrine?”
You could have simply given us a yes or no response. You didn’t.
Instead you gave us this very bizarre response:
“I am a Rom 3:23 guy. I do not adhere to Total Depravity as Augustine/Calvin do and TULIP Calvinists do.”
Rom 3:23 states “for all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God…”
That would indicate clearly that all have fallen short of the glory of God and that you hold to the doctrine of Total Depravity. But then you say you do not adhere to it as “Augustine/Calvin do and TULIP Calvinists do”.
Then how do you understand it to work? Did you know that the TULIP was founded on the Pauline theology in the New Testament? We did not make this an arminianist/calvinist issue. We wanted to know if you believed in Total Depravity.
We asked you this question because Rick Warren is a heretic on a number of levels. He has been exposed again and again to espouse the Pelagian heresy. Yet you defend him. Why? Did you know the early church opposed Pelagius at the various councils from 418AD onward? Why should the global church tolerate a heretic like Warren?
Pelagians say that faith is a human faculty. You seem to say the same thing.
“God provides the grace we provide the faith.”
How on earth can you reconcile this statement to your first sentence, “I am a Rom 3:23 guy”? As a ‘pastor’, it appears you oppose your own theology.
We asked you to explain what you mean. You haven’t. Again and again, you avoid any theological dialogue when pressed and make shallow, pouty comments on articles you don’t like. Can you please provide theological depth so we can understand you better?
We like giving people the benefit of the doubt. You mock us for not representing C3 fairly. But it appears you deliberately want us to conclude wrong things about you and the C3 movement. Why don’t you help? We’ve asked for clarification and definition on a number of issues. Please help us understand you and C3 better.
I’m not sure of your point here Simeon.
You guys need to lighten up. You just come across bitter and angry.
“You just come across bitter and angry.”
And you, Dean, come across as an addle-brained flip-stack who has only two neurons – and neurons that are not synapsing particularly well, at that.
Your bio on the web says that you are an “emerging author”, but you have thus far shown no sign whatsoever of being able to formulate a coherent defence of your position (let alone mount a convincing argument), you struggle with reading comprehension, and you handle the English language with even less aplomb than Phil Pringle wields a paint brush.
What are you going to write? Dick and Dora?
Zorro, yes yes you are correct.
I dropped out of high school after the 10th grade (St Paul’s 1980)
I only completed one year of ministry training college (1983)
I was never much good in the class room. Some mile dyslexia and some ADD I’m sure.
Stay hydrated.
“I’m not sure of your point here Simeon.
You guys need to lighten up. You just come across bitter and angry.”
My point? Read what I said and you will get the point:
“You mock us for not representing C3 fairly. But it appears you deliberately want us to conclude wrong things about you and the C3 movement. Why don’t you help? We’ve asked for clarification and definition[s] on a number of issues. Please help us understand you and C3 better.”
Don’t tell people that your critics are purposely misrepresnting you when we’ve asked you to clarify and define what you are talking about.
What so direct about the questions and answers? When nothing specific were raised in the question and no details given in the answer, what’s so direct in the face is that. What’s so courageous about AR’s question or Kong’ answer. Just a tame Q&A showtime for the members. Good for Kong, Dean is not in his defense team. Have not seen him write anything of substance to rebut arguments.
“You guys can’t even use your real names on a hate blog, so it is really you who have no credibility.”
Talking of credibility, Dean, there are some questions that you appear to have been studiously avoiding. Could you please tell us:
(1) From which institution did your wife obtain her Master’s degree?
(2) From which institution did your wife obtain her Doctorate?
(3) For how many years in total was your wife engaged in tertiary study in order to obtain her Doctorate (including the years she spent obtaining her Bachelors’ degree)?
The foregoing questions are quite straightforward; I can’t for the life of me imagine why you are so coy about answering them – especially when one considers the alacrity with which you venture your opinions on so many other topics addressed on this web site (no matter how sadly ill-informed those opinions may be).
1. What is your real name?
2. Where do you go to church?
3. What areas of leadership do you serve in?
4. What level of education do you have?
5. What books have you written?
6. Does you thesis have more then 40,000 words?
7. Do you have over 600 footnotes in your thesis?
8. How long have you been married?
9. Have you raised any children?
10. Are those children serving Christ?
11. Have you walked with any people lately that are dieing of cancer?
12. Have you counseled any pastors who want to give up on ministry and kept them from doing so?
When you answer these maybe you will be qualified to question Jill Sweetman and her academic achievements.
Can’t wait “Zorro”
“When you answer these [questions] maybe you will be qualified to question Jill Sweetman and her academic achievements.”
Tsk, tsk, Dean.
You claimed that your wife had a PhD, and, when queried as to where she obtained it, you answered “Trinity”. When asked to elucidate on this, you maintained a stony silence – until, having been pushed and prodded, you now respond with a flurry of questions of your own; a clear sign of your desperation.
None of your questions are the slightest bit relevant to the matter at hand, Dean. All they are is a laughably clumsy attempt by you to avoid having to admit the truth – that your wife’s so-called PhD is bogus; that it is not worth even so much as a piece of toilet paper.
Don’t you *ever* again tell anyone here that they have no credibility, Dean, because your credibility and that of your wife is now in tatters. (Excellent job, by the way, of letting your light so shine before men that they might glorify your great gnostic master Phil Pringle).
And now, here are some more questions for you:
1. What level of education did Jesus have?
2. What books did Jesus write?
3. Did Jesus’ thesis have more then 40,000 words?
4. Did Jesus have over 600 footnotes in His thesis?
5. How long was Jesus married for?
6. Did Jesus raise any children?
You’re not very bright, are you? You know neither the Scriptures nor the power of God, and you have your mind firmly fixed on the things of men. You are a blind man being led by the blind, and you wouldn’t know the Holy Spirit if you tripped over Him. You boast of your wife’s so-called “academic achievements” when her degree wasn’t even earned at a University, and, risibly, you have the bare-faced temerity to quiz others regarding their credentials as though you and yours are a yardstick. Well here’s a newsflash for you, sunshine: just because C3 regard those with an IQ of over 100 as geniuses doesn’t make it so.
Attn Dean (ok your bit is further down).
I like results, but you know what? I’ve kind of had enough; enough that there’s so much going on, and so much stuff we can’t do about it. I want this Kong trial over. I want the real attitude of the whole project. Even if Kong genuinely wanted it and his heart was in evangelism, he definitely did it the wrong and illegal way. But I think as it all unfolds, it was just to push her music career, and it was very well covered up. I also think he has false teaching. My opinion.
I’d love the Asheville thing to be over too; for Dimitris to be sentenced (remember, he pleaded guilty). Moreso I’d like to see what Dean or Phil are going to do about this soon-to-be convicted fraudster.
Phil – I don’t know. For years I thought he was the great apostle every one made him out to be. Then I read stuff from Garry McDougall and Yonothan. Maybe I’m getting critical in my old age. Maybe you take the bad with the good. But hey – everyone loves Kong! They call him a “Great Leader”! We’ll soon see won’t we. Convicted or acquitted.
As for you Dean Sweetman – at least you’ve got the male body parts to come on here, unlike other c3 pastors who might be checking this out, and if you are, hi Phil! Hi Kong! So Dean, I’ve got some suggestions (for real): why don’t you quit your c3 post, truncate off from all of it and go solo? Get your own church as independent, set up accountable leadership and you can do your own thing. Maybe even just go itinerate. Or go to another church, and set up itinerate from there. Jill can have a non-restricted counselling ministry. Let the Asheville thing go; plus when you move on from c3 you don’t have to pay the franchise fees (or whatever they are but I know there is something in there; may have to ask my friendly c3 pastor J ). So you probably don’t like my suggestion, but hey, just in case stuff goes down, you’d be right. I mean, how many politicians “retired” before team Gillard or team Bligh got annihilated in the polls?
Thank you for your suggestions Simeon.
Appreciate your tone, not as bitter as others on here.
I too will be awaiting the out comes of the trials, (Asheville & Singapore). Until them I prefer to withhold judgment.
Regarding my relationship to C3, I am committed to playing what ever roll is asked of me and growing and planting more churches for the next ten years. I will look to slow down a bit after that.
C3 is more than just one man or a ministry. The life time friendships that Jill and I have are irreplaceable. C3 is not perfect, nothing that involves human beings ever is. But it is a great fit for me and I am looking forward to many more fruitful years serving under Pastor Phil & Chris and the rest of the C3 leadership.
The outcome of Asheville Dean? He already pleaded guilty. He’s just awaiting sentencing. Crime committed. Guilty plea entered. Church destroyed by massive inaction. You don’t seem to get it. Nick has left a wake of destruction behind him and you are the chief enabler as he ruins the few he has left. Everyone is meant to wait around under a conman for 18 months to 2 years while some judge makes the decision you should have made in January of 2012. You missed it bud. Stop him from taking the cash of hard working people and squandering it because clearly, to any reasonable person in the know, that is what this man does. You’re enabling innocent people to be conned as we speak.
Why don’t you call the ex board or staff or 200 church members and ask them? You’ve not done that at all have you? After you gave your ultimatums or they left of their own accord, you’ve not made a single follow up call with anyone to check on anything. You blindly follow the words of one insane man and discount the hundreds of trusted men and women of God who have great reputations in the community.
Why don’t you call the parents of his ex or even call Emily’s parents, they will tell you, they intensely dislike Nick for what he has done. Here’s the number. http://www.adamsandreese.com/powell-g-ogletree/ BUT YOU WON”T WILL YOU BECAUSE YOU DON”T LOOK INTO A DAMNED THING.
It’s the not listening or even seeking the truth that has driven so many to anonymously post Dean. It’s your inaction.
And the tone of the people on here??? I’ll put that down to the fact that some people gave tens of thousands, even hundreds of thousands to see C3A get going. Some gave their whole lives to this thing and won’t step foot in a church again and you pissed on it all so excuse us if our tone isn’t pleasant enough for you.
~… unlike other c3 pastors who might be checking this out …~
Oh, they check it out all right – and it drives them absolutely nuts.
Phil Pringle is doing his level best to conceal the truth about Kong Hee from C3OF attendees, and here is C3CW splashing all the embarrassing details around on the web, and – even worse – linking back to CHC Confessions on facebook. It has been reported that Phil is looking distinctly crook these days, and there is a widely-held suspicion that it’s because he’s tossing and turning at night as he wonders how he’s going to explain the truth when it finally becomes to difficult to hide it any longer. In particular, Phil is probably wondering how it will look if Kong goes to Changi – especially since Phil “prophesied” that Kong wouldn’t spend a single day in gaol.
And of course, the deacons at C3OF have been warned to keep an eye out for those who are speaking against Phil or his precious cult, so it looks like the paranoia is really starting to bite deeply. And who could forget that sources from ~inside~ C3OF have provided valuable information for those running this web site – even stuff that Phil tried to censor by having the cameras switched off at one stage during a service. It seems that C3 is leaking like a sieve, Phil. Maybe you should remind your people to stay off these nasty, nasty web sites – it’s bound to work eventually, if you’ll just keep hammering home the point (don’t forget to mention the exact web addresses they should avoid).
Dean Sweetman: “C3 is not perfect, nothing that involves human beings ever is.”
There are three things, no four things, that are perfect in C3 church which Dean Sweetman cannot deny:
1. The 2020 Vision that God gave Phil Pringle: “To plant 1000 churches by the year 2020 with an average attendance of 500 members”.
2. The prophecies God give Phil Pringle.
3. The leadership God has given C3 Church.
4. As a result of the leadership God has placed in C3 Church, the teachings of these leaders are perfect.
If you question these, Dean Sweetman would like to have a word with you. Right Dean?
“Throwing anonymous bombs of criticism and hate is the epitome of cowardice.”
Actually Dean, leaving a convicted felon and known con-man in charge of a church is the epitome of cowardice. You fear men rather than God, and you have love for neither the truth nor God’s sheep. But God is the defender of the widow and the fatherless, and He will uphold the cause of the weak in the sight of all men. You will pay a price for your turpitude, your total abrogation of responsibility, and your disgraceful dereliction of duty. Since you have knowingly and wilfully allowed Dimitris free rein to commit the crimes to which he has confessed, you share with him in his guilt as though you yourself had been responsible for those acts.
God will rebuke you to your face – you and all of your worthless colleagues who fraudulently hold themselves out to be pastors – and when He does, you won’t tell him “I’m not sure of your point here” or “You just come across bitter and angry”, because you will be too busy begging His forgiveness as you grovel in the dirt like the lily-livered lickspittle that you so clearly are. (If it’s any consolation, the great Phil Pringle himself and his adoring legions of lame lieutenants will be face-down in the dust next to you).
Dean you are confused. This site ís not about throwing hatebombs. This site is about Godly love. Having the strength of character to warn christians about deceptive and ungodly behaviour that does not line up with Gods Word. Sadly this deceptive behaviour is commited by so called christian leaders who are stealing peoples money and using it to live an ungodly selfish lifestyle. If that isnt bad enough they are twisting Gods Word to manipulate and guilt trip christians to give or be cursed.
You are free to have your opinion. It may be more credible if you did it out in the open instead of anonymously.
When a Leader or public figure has had this much public attention and scrutiny, and the allegations have highlighted glaring areas of bad decision making and apparent deception, in order to enable trust to resume and to restore confidence, they need to communicate with the people who believed in their ministry or worked for their cause…..and if they want any credibility, they also need to communicate with the wider community who have been concerned about the issues.
So IF they ARE truly desiring to show that they are now being honest and admitting some wrong doing, or that changes have been made, there are avenues of public communication such as a recorded public meeting, websites, face book, media releases etc. that are available to them to clarify their stand and help reduce some of the confusion and distrust that has built because of their many questionable decisions and actions.
By the lack of any public apology or acknowledgement, it would appear that Kong Hee and Sun Ho have NOT said publicly that they were wrong for SPECIFIC issues.
They have NOT called it SIN and REPENTED publicly.
And they have NOT said that they are SORRY for the damage done to people’s ability to trust leadership, and to the credibility of the Body of Christ.
They have NOT offered to return donations/offerings to those people who have felt that they were deceived.
The CHC website STILL justifies sinful behaviour (especially in actors, artists, and musicians) in the Crossover Project propaganda…(I urge you to check it out….especially the garbage about ‘persona’ and Sun Ho’s entrance to the US).
ANYONE CAN SAY “I HAVE MADE MISTAKES AND DONE STUPID THINGS”…..
But it takes integrity and honesty to address specific areas, in repentance and SHOW THE FRUIT OF REPENTANCE!
There is clear evidence that they have not repented:
Kong Hee says: “I maintain my integrity” (and his many other statements claiming that he is being attacked and persecuted….even saying that God required him to go through this for God’s plans and purposes for his ministry). Kong Hee again said this sort of thing just this week at the VLC Conference, even quoting scripture to imply that he is suffering for his faith – and this was AFTER that Q&A session that AR.Bernard conducted. To most people, that Q&A session looks like a damage control attempt…..if it was real repentance, he would not have said what he did on Tuesday morning in Perth….and we would have seen a humbled man who shows insight).
Sun Ho said “I am truly glad that I have been fully vindicated” ….sounds a bit like the Proverbs woman.
Proverbs 30:20 This is the way of an adulterous woman: She eats and wipes her mouth, And says, “I have done no wickedness.”
The reason people write anonymously is to have a voice and warn others without reprisal….because unfortunately some churches have a culture that it’s ok to shoot the voice of concern, ignore it when people go through appropriate avenues of complaint, and not deal with the Leadership who is in error…because they are the ‘untouchables’.
Change that culture and people will feel safe to put their name to their concerns!
Dean, did not Kong and the leadership tell you about how they sued one Mr Poon a few years back for suggesting that CHC funds were used for funding Sun’s Chinawine’s style singing career. Did Kong fail to tell you that Mr Poon was made to take up an advertisement in the papers to make a public apology causing him to suffer financial loss and humiliation. And now that it has been found to be true, did Kong and the leadership approach Mr Poon to apologise and make restitution. Did he mention that during the Q&A time with AR or for that matter did he even mention any specific thing that he repented of that would make it an ‘honest’ answer. With such vindictive leadership you should know why many ,especially church members , remain anonymous when they write comments. Dean, as a holder of some doctorate qualification, surely you can write something of substance than just accuse anonymous writers here of cowardice and hate. To tell you the truth, Mr Poon’s humiliation exposed how vindictive CHC leadership is. We are no fools.
@ Dean – if I may respond to your questions?
1. What is your real name? = Well-known
2. Where do you go to church? = small local Reformed
3. What areas of leadership do you serve in? = Former C3 pastor. Now run small group Bible study, much involved in church community.
4. What level of education do you have? = Very well-educated. Unfortunately not so well-educated at C3 Bible College – what a waste of time and money. Unqualified lecturers (at the time) reason enough .
5. What books have you written? = N/A
6. Does your thesis have more then 40,000 words? = N/A
7. Do you have over 600 footnotes in your thesis? = N/A
8. How long have you been married? = 45 years.
9. Have you raised any children? = 5
10. Are those children serving Christ? = Yes
11. Have you walked with any people lately that are dying of cancer? = At least 4, a most humbling experience sharing their hope, and longing to be with the Lord.
12. Have you counseled any pastors who want to give up on ministry and kept them from doing so? = No, but have encouraged some to consider leaving C3.
By the the way, I don’t have an issue with Jill’s credentials however I DO have an issue with the cover of her book. Seriously looks like a really bad Mormon tract.
The Masters Seminary started by John Macarthur has the same accreditations as Westpoint and Annapolis, a pity we will probably never see that sort of credibility applied to a C3 Bible College any time soon.
@ Dean – my apologies re question 3 = former C3 lay pastor. Remember when that system worked really well? Before really unqualified connect group leaders took control of people’s spiritual lives? What a bad move that was.
Good for you Berean. I applaud your commitment to serve Christ what ever church it might be. Believing for God’s best for you and your family.
“Good for you Berean. I applaud your commitment to serve Christ what ever church it might be. Believing for God’s best for you and your family.”
Can everyone say ‘lip service’? You could not have been more two-faced Dean. You respect her with your words but advocate churches like hers. Since when has the c3 movement tolerated churches that do ministry different to them? According to c3 philosophy, churches that Berean attend are dying, irrelevant and replaceable. They have been noticeably mocked by Phil Pringle, c3 leadership and c3 college lecturers. You either need to be part of the c3 wave or die. This is why c3 has been approaching churches to join their movement or rejoice in their boasting when churches want to join their movement. They will help your church reach it’s potential. If you hold to the ways of traditional churches, you are against what God is doing now and will miss God’s calling to use you in this generation of church leaders.
If Dean argues against that this is what c3 believes, then he has not been reading Phil Pringle’s books or paying attention at Pringles leadership meetings.
Dear Dean,
Funny, it’s becoming to sound like a dear Dean Q&A column lol. But seriously you as an annointed person, as charismatics say of their pastors, should weigh every word you say. I once said to a pastor who would just shoot off his mouth that he is responsible for the consequences of responses that came from his careless advice. I told him as a pastor he should not be careless or casual in the things he said as he God holds spiritual leaders with a very much higher standard of responsibility and accountability in what they say, teach, or do. So coming to your advice to Berean, how can it ever be ‘whatever church’ you serve in ….a church with a different Jesus as in Oprah’s new age church etc? or Brain McB’s emergent style church where there is no such thing as absolute biblical truth etc ? or a church with a different gospel slanted to prosperity, health and wealth , or treating their mind like a God able to create things into being through their powerful positive thoughts and through visualisation etc as in CHC, C3 , Yonggi church, or the NAR churches with the burning of strange fires ????? Such are the churches who like the Isrealites that came out of Egypt and though they acknowledge that it was the God of Israel that delivered them out of Egypt and slavery but yet depicted and workshipped Him as a golden calf. Dean, do you know that the Chinese believe in a god they call the wealth and prosperity god whom they love to worship for obvious reasons, of course it is the same for westerners.
Dean,
I too now attend a reform church but I am not Calvinist, but not Amenian either. I simply just understand both side of views . I do devotion with help of John MacArthur’s daily devotional guide but like Wayne Grudem, I am no cessationist. Dean, leave the word of faith and break clear from Kong, Phil and the NAR ‘prophets’. Help make disciples not tickle itchy ears.
Dean Sweetman, thank you very much for continuing to contribute here.
I rarely comment because I never attended a C3 church. A lot of C3church issues and teachings discussed on this blog brings back memories of my non-denominational church that gradually became very charismatic. (“needing” to tithe omitted from its teachings though).
This fairly short radio segment may be of some interest. http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=928132339388
1. How do you assess spiritual growth amongst church members in your church?
2. Do you look at people’s growth in spiritual knowledge e.g. increased understanding of the bible/ Christian doctrine AS WELL as increased church attendance and people’s testimonies of their “changed lives” ?
3. If early Christians from first century AD could time-warp and understand modern 21st century English, if they attended your church one Sunday would they say *you* were preaching what the apostles preached? (No I am not a Science Fiction fan.)
P.S. I never give my true name online because of difficult *non*-Christian family members. There are more reasons for maintaining semi-privacy than just trying to sabotage your church anonymously.
@thinker – loved your link.
Love Trevor Hammack. Great teaching – listen to a lot of his audios for a few years now.
I listened to his 7 part series on the Charismatic Movement several times a couple of years ago. Very helpful for those coming out of charismania (as we were).
http://www.sermonaudio.com/search.asp?seriesOnly=true&currSection=sermonstopic&SourceID=vbc&keyworddesc=The+Charismatic+Movement&keyword=The+Charismatic+Movement
Will Dean listen? Who knows? I DO know C3 leadership have their favourites, T D Jakes and Steven Furtick sadly being some of them. And the congregation, still “toking the ghost” with Bill Johnson.
“2. Do you look at people’s growth in spiritual knowledge e.g. increased understanding of the bible/ Christian doctrine AS WELL as increased church attendance and people’s testimonies of their “changed lives” ?”
I would like to suggest that the only thing I see certain churches contribute to growth is numbers and how big their building is. And having to have multiple services, despite the crowd not being full in either. This contributes greatly to volunteer, ie music team burnout (of which I personally experienced).
I went to a church for several months who were aching for an extension on their building. Why? Because it was JAM PACKED on Sunday morning. When you couldn’t get a seat, that is literal.