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asheville, bank fraud, boat, c3 asheville, c3 asheville scandal, c3 church, c3 church asheville, courts, crime, criminal, dean sweetman, Dimitris, felon, fraud, kong, Kong Hee, Nick Dimitris, ostrich, Phil Pringle, Pringle, scandal, Sweetman, wolf
Related articles:
C3 Asheville Scandal – C3 Pastor Facing Prison (Part 1)
C3 Asheville Scandal – C3 Pastor “Pleads Guilty In Bank Fraud Case” (Part 2)
C3 Asheville Scandal – Sweetmans Do Nothing Against Fraudulent C3 Pastor? (Part 3)
C3 Asheville Scandal – Four “People… Have Pleaded Guilty” Including “[C3] Minister… Nicholas Dimitris” (Part 4)
C3 Asheville Scandal – C3 ‘Pastor’ Nick Dimitris: The Liar (Part 5)
C3 Asheville Scandal – Massive Financial Judgment Against C3 Asheville Pastor Nick Dimitris (Part 6)
C3 Asheville Scandal – While Dean’s Playing Slick, Nick’s In The Knick (Part 7)
EITHER DEFEND A WOLF OR GET OFF THE C3 CHURCH BOAT?
Dean Sweetman (overseer of the C3 Church Americas), has dodged the vast majority of questions put to him on this web site. However, the big question that remains unanswered is how Dean could have possibly allowed Nick Dimitris to remain in his C3 Pastoral position for so long, all the while turning a blind eye to what was apparent to so many others, remaining deaf to the entreaties of Nick’s victims (and marginalising the victims of the felon he was so keen on defending), and ignoring the advice of those who have shown far better judgement than himself.
When C3 Pastor Nick Dimitris was found guilty and was awaiting sentencing, we recalled a churchwatcher quoting Dean for upbraiding those in C3 Asheville with the ultimatum,
“your either with us and Nick or get off the boat”.” [Source]
Now Nick has now been sent up the river on “the boat” for a year and day. Wasn’t Dean Sweetman on the same boat as Nick Dimitris? Why isn’t the C3 leadership with Nick? When did they conveniently get off?
It’s a tragedy that Dean’s precious pastoral protege is being packed off to prison.
Does Dean think that maybe Nick didn’t tithe enough? Dean is surely aware that Phil has “prophesied” over Kong Hee, (serial plagiarist and confessed crossover deceiver), that “Not one day shall this fair head spend behind bars”. Couldn’t Dean have asked the one and only Phil Pringle, (that great globe-trotting apostle), to pray for Nick’s protection, and thereby have kept him out of the slammer?
This whole shabby affair further tarnishes the already none-too-stellar reputation of C3, and provides a stark object lesson of how prosperity cults in their lust for success and wealth, are quite willing to sacrifice the innocent in order to preserve the positions of the powerful and privileged New Age gnostics who run the show.
THE OSTRICH OVERSEER
Dean Sweetman stated,
“Re Asheville, I will not be commenting until the court proceedings are over. Even when there is a full resolution you will not find me tearing people down publicly on an Internet blog.
If you know me you know that my intentions we [sic] good and I continue to believe for a strong healthy C3 Church in Asheville.” [Source]
Among other churchwatchers who wrote how they witnessed the majority of C3 Asheville church members leave, another churchwatcher asked Dean,
“Still choosing to stay silent on Asheville Dean? Hoping it will go quietly into the night and vanish? Not willing to address it at all?” [Source]
Dean stated,
“… All I can say at this stage is that we are awaiting the outcome of the trial and are hopeful things will be resolved favorably for all concerned.” [Source]
In other news, we were informed on Monday by the District Court that Nicholas Dimitris was scheduled to be sentenced Tuesday 11/26/13, in Asheville at the Federal Courthouse at 10:00 AM in Courtroom # 1 on the 3rd floor.
His Attorney was David G. Belser. The Asst. US Attorneys assigned to prosecute Mr. Dimitris’ case were Don Gast and Michael E. Savage.
If for some reason David G. Belser, Don Gast and Michael E. Savage asked Dean to remove Nick Dimitris as a C3 Pastor before his sentence, would Dean say the same thing to them as he did to us? How can the C3 Church Movement afford to have Dean Sweetman as an overseer if his head is full of sand?
Phil Pringle must be absolutely livid at how all this has played out, and all the more so given that damning details of exactly what has transpired have become public knowledge thanks to the internet. Imagine what it would be like to have been a fly on the wall when Dean had occasion to discuss this matter with Phil Pringle. Perhaps Dean would be willing to share with us the gist of that particular conversation?
I’ve been trying to figure out what Dean Sweetman’s agenda is. I just can’t believe he’s that incompetent or just in total denial. If he worked for a company (which have to abide by things like corporate governance) he would have been fired by now. Maybe it was that simple, filling up his ears with proverbial sand and hoping it would all just go away.
I wouldn’t be surprised if Phil Pringle is thinking about parachuting one of his other guys into the US right now to try to restore order and reputation. Mind you the US is full of prosperity preachers already, so maybe it’s not a key market.
Anyway time will tell. Kong Hee on the other hand will be a much bigger issue for C3 and in particular for Phil Pringle.
The whole sorry saga reminds me of the classic fable “Emperor’s New Clothes”. http://deoxy.org/emperors.htm
Dean Sweetman every single Christian has fallen for a lie to one degree or another. We are all sinners after all. Are you going to face the truth, swallow your pride and stop defending the indefensible? Note especially verse 12.
Deliver those who are drawn toward death,
And hold back those stumbling to the slaughter.
*If you say, “Surely we did not know this,”
Does not He who weighs the hearts consider it?
He who keeps your soul, does He not know it?
And will He not render to each man according to his deeds?* (Proverbs 24:11-12)
Amen to that!
Dean Sweetman, echoing Thinker’s exhortation…we have all believed lies, and unwittingly told them to others. We have all intentionally lied. We have all hated, been greedy, and sought to do what we believed to be right in our own eyes. Not one person here is innocent. We are all wretched sinners at the mercy of a holy, sovereign God who will not allow sin to go unpunished. The good news is that when we are convicted of our sin, led to repentance by the Holy Spirit, and place our faith in Jesus Christ, we are saved from the punishment we deserve. Truly, this is the Gospel!
It is a painful thing to be convicted of our sin, and an extremely difficult process to repent of it…in fact it leads to a lifetime of repentance. Anyone who says otherwise perhaps has not experienced it. I pray, with all sincerity and hope for your future, that you will be called to repentance by the Holy Spirit. If and when that call on your heart comes, know that I will be the first to support you as a born again brother in Christ.
Dean, please at least consider the possibility that you have been taught serious error and are spreading that error to others. I take no satisfaction in pointing this out to you, but I do it out of concern for your soul. I urge you to act with compassion and a gentle spirit towards those here who are God’s people, who have been harmed by C3 and its leaders. If you believe you have done nothing wrong, then surely it will not hurt to be kind to those who are suffering and are earnestly seeking God’s truth. A genuine love for God’s people is a sign of the Holy Spirit working in you.
Dean, I pray that our precious Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ will have mercy on you, and lead you to His truth. In Christ’s love, Sherryn
Btw I found this clip from PP on criticism: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r3gKPhHCf_s. It might be on this site already as it’s a year old but it was new to me.
What’s striking about it is the lack of any mention of accountability. All he’s really saying is whenever someone disagrees with the C3 leader, or criticises them, ignore them (and whatever they’re saying) and forgive them. It’s an extremely very self centred way of thinking and I think speaks volumes about their authoritarian structure. Positive comments on what the C3 Leader is doing are good, comments pointing out what they’re not doing so well, well let’s forgive them, ignore the comments and move on.
Maybe that’s what Dean’s approach has been? Ignore all the warning signs, ignore the critics, the blogs etc pointing out the obvious, forgive them and keep doing what you’re doing?
To be honest I don’t think that’s too bad a video, but you’re right – how do they take on board constructive criticism? Or are “pastors” these days like politicians – out of touch with their electorate?
We have that video ready in an article somewhere. The faith that Pringle and the C3 movement teach is very narcissistic and arrogant. They do not seperate faith from vision, positive attitude, selfishness, personal gain and influence. In that video it looked as though Pringle was teaching people how to prevent critics from challenging their pastors constructed realities.
Hey churchwatcher. I wanted to give you another update on Asheville: Although I can’t verify this completely I believe that the church in Asheville is no longer apart of C3. I heard it through the grapevine so to speak….and then I checked the global website and C3 Asheville is no longer on there. There site which was tied into C3 America’s website system is no longer up as well.
What does this mean if it’s true you might ask? Not much really….either Dean couldn’t stand the heat anymore and was coming to the realization he made a mistake( not that he really cares that he might have hurt people but that it might reflect back badly on him and C3) and cut ties. Or Nick probably sensed this might be close to happening and cut ties to try and protect his little “kingdom”.
Regardless of which scenario it was the situation in Asheville is beyond sad…many people and families are badly hurt and many more continue to be hurt because even with Nick on his way to prison in February he will not let the church go. C3 is very messed up I understand that now but even knowing that how could they let this go on? How do you let a man who has plead guilty and is involved in a massive case of mortgage fraud continue to lead a church? At the very least you would have thought they could have sat him until things played out in the court system. Instead they let the situation go from bad to worse. There lack of action and regard for people was beyond comprehension….It was reckless and negligent and lacked any common sense.
As Christians I am asking that everyone pray for the people here in Asheville. Those who are out from under Nick’s hold(he is a conman mind you) and those who for whatever ever reason cannot seem to realize who Nick is and get away…Please pray for them. Not a day goes by that I don’t think of the people that are trapped with Nick and his crumbling kingdom. God help them get away in JESUS name!
“In that video it looked as though Pringle was teaching people how to prevent critics from challenging their pastors constructed realities.”… excellent way of putting it!
I fully agree ‘constructed realities’ probably sums up the vast majority of their dreams and ideas they want to believe into existence. Discernment of what is of God and what is not is key here. Some pastors clearly like to create their own universe or bubble to live in.
The wolf and the ostrich went to sea,
In a dodgy old C3 boat.
They took some money, (’twas sweeter than honey),
And they paid homage to a goat.
So where has ostrich man gone? Are you there Dean? You seem to be conspicuous by your absence, notwithstanding the fact that you previously claimed to be withholding comment only because legal proceedings were still in train. Are you waiting until you hear the cell door clang shut behind tricky Nick? Are you perhaps holding off until all avenues of legal appeal have been exhausted? Was a confession of guilt from Nick’s own mouth – apparently a most uncharacteristic instance of truthfulness on his part – not enough to convince you?
Anyway, looking on the positive side: this sorry saga could get you the start as an author that you so clearly lust after – I can see the title of the book now – “True Crime: C3, The Felon, and Me”. Maybe they’ll turn the book into a movie, with Phil Pringle playing the part of Nick Dimitris (he’d slip right into character with no trouble at all, don’t you reckon Dean?)
It looks like Dean is MIA. Where are you Dean?
Tell us, do you think that things turned out OK? After all, you did say that you were “hopeful things will be resolved favourably for all concerned”. (My personal opinion is that things turned out favourably for those victims at C3 Asheville who were duped by Dimitris, since they have now been vindicated).
Of course, there are also those who are guilty who didn’t end up in the dock – the ones who unquestioningly supported Dimitris, and who, even now that he is a convicted felon, are content to sit on their hands. But that’s the great thing about knowing God, isn’t it Dean? We know that nothing can be hidden from Him, and that His justice will prevail in the sight of all men – and although judgement may tarry, yet in its time it will come swiftly. Doesn’t it give you a warm inner glow when you meditate on the certainty that those who wink at evil, and who go to great lengths to conceal their hypocrisy, will one day be called to account?
Anyway Dean, I’d just like to say what a wonderful ambassador you’ve been for the C3 movement with your commentary here. You’ve provided us with some wonderful insights into the mind of a C3 leader, and in particular you have shown just how high the bar is set for those who aspire to membership of C3’s inner circle of anointed ones. Maybe, since you really have proved to be a standard bearer par excellence, Phil Pringle will honour you with a big promotion – I reckon he should make you the Executive Regional Overseer for C3 Antarctica.
More like a silly joker from C3
And just like that, he was gone.
It seems that poor old Dean couldn’t stand the heat in the kitchen; that he found the unvarnished truth just too confronting. In the time-honoured tradition of C3 bullies everywhere, Dean has slunk off with his tail between his legs to hide behind a lectern. You can’t blame him, really – now that Nick Dimitris has been sentenced to gaol, there’s really nothing more that Dean could say to hide the embarrassment that he is feeling, or to address the welter of criticism that has proven to be so well-justified.
Don’t feel too bad about having received a right pasting from those who comment here, Dean. Although you might be an aspiring apostle on the rise in your fantasy world, and a big frog in that small muddy pond that is C3, here you are just another in a long line of lacklustre losers who have played at being apologists on behalf of their gnostic pope, Phil Pringle. And although some may have expected so much more in the way of substance from someone of your supposedly illustrious station, your dismal performance wasn’t a surprise to those who understand that C3 is nothing more than a theologically bankrupt personality cult, as evidenced by the fact that not a single advocate of that execrable movement has ever made the slightest impression here – outside the comfort of the C3 reality-distortion bubble, they invariably prove to be nothing more than pathetic weak-kneed dolts who present with all the authority of a week-old lettuce (so much for being “Spirit-filled”).
C3 is a joke. Why don’t you have a look in the mirror, Dean – you might be able to spot the punch line.
C3 does not accept anything it does is wrong. It ignores criticism, accountability, transparency, truth, and the gospel. Sure they read from the gospel now and again but I think most readers on this site are aware of the twisting that goes on.
I don’t consider C3 much different from a “boiler room” stockbroker, where they talk people into spending money on worthless stocks that the firm holds and later dumps, and the only ones who profit are those in the boiler room. Similarly C3 pump false prophesies and promises of “God’s blessing” and wealth so you may become rich. Instead, they just become rich. The only difference is that there are no regulatory bodies (like the SEC) to investigate C3.
“zorro” ( fake anonymous blogger) your vastly inaccurate comments as usual are noted.
Dean
“[…] fake anonymous blogger […]”
So Dean, it seems that you wish to discuss fakery.
What an unpredictable and complex character you are; this is a tack that one would have least expected you to take. However, since you have been brave enough to broach the subject, would you please like to tell our many readers:
1. Why does your wife tout a fake PhD?
2. Why do you allow her to do that (you *are* in charge in your marriage, aren’t you?)
3. Why did Phil Pringle once tout a fake PhD? Why doesn’t he talk about it any more (embarrassment at being found out, perhaps?)
4. Isn’t it the case that serial plagiarist and confessed crossover deceiver Kong Hee also has a pretend PhD from an unaccredited diploma mill?
5. Exactly how many pentecostal / charismatic / WOF “ministers” advertise bogus academic qualifications that you know of?
6.Are these people too intellectually dull to aspire to a genuine tertiary education? Are they too lazy? Do you believe that that these frauds have even a shred of integrity?
Would you care to cover other aspects of fakery with which we know you are quite familiar? How about C3’s preaching of a fake “gospel”, whereby people are compelled to “tithe” under the threat of being “cursed” for non-compliance?
As always, I await your reply with interest.
Do convicted people not go straight to jail in the US or are they dealt with in absentia and given time to surrender?
He will surrender in February.
have the c3 people no discernment? just looking at the photo of Nick, his eyes, his expressíon, i would personally not trust him. He doesnt look like an honest godly person at all.
Interesting that he gets the option of surrendering rather than unlike here where you go straight to jail after sentencing.
If c3 keep him on until then they will lose all credibility. Wouldn’t the c3 charter say something about having a conviction and not being able to serve? Even in the business or political world – Einfield, Sit Terry Lewis, Gordon Nuttall etc – massive falls from grace. So what will happen here?
Come on Phil and Dean, be upfront. What will you do with Nick as pastor?
Surely Emily Dimitris takes sole lead as she also hold a Senior Pastor position (and I’m guessing all the salary / perks and benefits that go along with that)?
She hasn’t been convicted for anything so given her job title it should be business as usual for that congregation.
The church doesn’t have any money. Emily won’t do it. Nick will give it to someone who he knows will give it back after a year…someone loyal and brainwashed.
What’s troubling is that Nick Dimitris can place C3 Asheville under leadership more worse than his own and still justify his actions to anyone by something like this:
“It is not just about leadership skills. It’s about anointing.” – Phil Pringle, You The Leader, 2005, pg 271.
Gnostics will always win. They’ve got the revelation. Not you.
Dimitris was given until February by the judge because of his plea to be present at his child’s birth expected at the end of January. He will be told by the Bureau of Prisons when to report to begin his sentence after February 1st. Because he has cooperated with authorities and plead guilty they do not think he is a flight risk and his punishment will be served in full as there is no parole in federal prison. After his 1 year and 1 day he will have 3 years of supervised release.
He has 30 days from his judgement to file an appeal but because he plead guilty the only way they will accept that is if he has evidence that someone coerced into signing or some other illegality to makes the plea invalid.
But since he signed 2 of them and at sentencing was read back his guilty plea, his attorney verified he counselled him to sign it and he affirmed that he still pleads guilty their is little he can do except get his house in order to be absent for the next year.
Judges are not in the habit of doling out sentences that get overturned in appellate court. It is a bad record of their judicial over site. Plus the prosecution already stated that he got a once and done plea agreement. If he doesn’t take this deal they will come after him for all the other fraud they uncovered in the investigation. Trust me this is a good deal for Mr. Dimitris it could have been a lot worse.
Wow thanks for the info.
I also agree about sentences not being given if they face a prospect if getting reviewed on appeal.
In this respect, stepping back one notch in the court process, I would suggest that, just like here, Police won’t charge without reasonable evidence (or it will get No Evidence To Offer), and Prosecution won’t present a case unless there is a reasonable prospect of the accused being convicted. And I say this in refernce to the Kong Hee trial. Not that he is guilty, but there must be something going on, otherwise refer above.
So sad to think….all of this mess could have been avoided if “oversight” would have done what was needed. Why ruin multiple families “church home”. Why not get rid of the ONE instead of 250???? Makes ZERO since. Hoping that maybe just maybe a lesson has been learned in all of this. It’s sad to see many families hurting out there. I feel like a pastor should be held accountable and if there’s an integrity issue it should be brought up and dealth with accordingly. Not shoved under the rug and definately not by saying “back us up or leave” ridiculous.
churchwatcher – thankyou for clearing that up in my mind. “the faith that pringle and the c3 movement teach is very narcisstic and arrogant. they do not seperate faith from vision, positive attitude, selfishness, personal gain and influence”. That combination is toxic, which is why i refer to c3 as a cult. I see so many people in bondage who are remaining so, which is a tragedy, since Jesus sacrificed so much to set us free.
Public Record:
The Government submits that the amount of restitution to which the
Defendant (Nick Dimitris) should be ordered to pay is $3,273,226.59. This amount is owed to the victim banks. https://ecf.ncwd.uscourts.gov/doc1/13512377167
Hi everyone,
My name is Barn Sweetman. Dean and Jill Sweetman are my parents. There’s probably 3,000 things I could say to argue against some of the ridiculous things that have been said on this blog, but it honestly makes me feel nauseous just thinking about it. Seriously, I challenge you to think about this for a second. Imagine your parents, hopefully some of the greatest heroes that were in your life, being verbally abused like this. Picture it in your mind for a few seconds.
Now imagine being 8 years old, living with your family that had next to nothing and then being sent to move from Sydney, all the way to Atlanta to plant a church. Now imagine over the next 18 years watching your parents, move heaven and earth, to try and build healthy, amazing, and powerful churches that actually change lives. Let me reiterate that… that actually CHANGE lives.
Then all of a sudden, they start getting verbally attacked by a lynch mob who literally have nothing better to do than to destroy everything that your parents put blood, sweat, and tears into.
It’s just shocking. The lack of compassion and grace that gets tossed around this blog is just sickening. You’ve literally created a breeding ground of doubt, fear, and hatred with the soul purpose of tearing down the church. You are literally contributing to the destruction of the image of Christianity. Congratulations.
And the best part about it? From what I’ve seen, most of you are Christians. Most of you flippin’ believe in the power of the cross and that it actually changes lives. Yet you choose to criticize the ones that actually carry the burden and spread the gospel. If you actually understood the amount of pressure and faith it takes to build just 1 church, I guarantee you, you would be disgusted with yourself right now. Disgusted.
I’ll finish my rant on this note. I’m sure you all had some reason to point fingers at your church or C3 for something that hurt you. Grow up, forgive the people that have wronged you and move on. The church will ALWAYS be built by imperfect people and if you can’t accept that, go read John 8:7. The goal is to spread the Gospel… not destroy it.
Think about it.
Hello Barn Sweetman,
First off let me commend you for honoring your parents. I also want to say although I’m sure I don’t completely understand how it must feel, I’m sure it hurts to see what you feel as your parents being attacked occurring on this blog.
That being said I want to present a bit of the other side to you. I think a lot of people are venting at your Dad Dean because they are in fact hurt. Hurt by Nick Dimitris and hurt by his handling of this situation. He is in fact in a position where he is supposed to provide help and “oversight” in situations like these. I’m going to present to you a few facts about his handling of the Asheville church and you can decide for yourself if you can see why some people might be hurt at his handling of this situation.
But before I do let me tell you how I know this and why I am qualified to speak to the situation: I went to C3 Asheville, I was a leader in fact I even lead certain aspects of the church. I have been apart of a few church plants now so I do understand how hard planting a church can be. I’ve also been involved in the “Spirit Filled” church most of my life and I was apart of the C3 movement for many years. I had high hopes as did many others for a good local church in Asheville, I served and gave to try to help in seeing a community of believers established in Asheville. I like many others eventually wised up to Nick Dimitris and went to your Dad and practically begged for help and I was turned away and told if I couldn’t support leadership I needed to leave. So that is what I did….
Now for a few facts on your Dad’s handling of the situation in Asheville:
1. From the time that the scandal of Nick Dimitris’s court case broke in the news Dean never set his feet on the ground in Asheville. NOT ONCE. He sent others(more on this shortly) but never came once to observe things for himself, to ask questions, to seek out the truth, heck possibly even to make sure all the members were okay and being cared for, maybe even pray with some folks…. I would certainly think that a matter this big would require quite a bit more attention and emphasis than he gave it. We are talking about people’s lives afterall and if what turned out to be true(according to United States Justice system)was true then the implications would be devastating to a church.
2. He did however send Steve Hickson who recommended Nick be immediately placed on Hiatus from a leadership role in the church.-This was ignored as were all of Steve’s requests on how the matter be handled.
He later sent Phil Beuchler who said and I paraphrase-“Nick is not fit by the definition the Bible provides us to be a leader”-This was also ignored as well.
3. Dean was approached by several members of staff and pastors at C3 Asheville asking for Nick to be sat and for help in this situation- They were ignored and I can’t remember the exact tally but at least 7 staff left because of this. A worship leader, a young adults pastor and a youth pastor all were gone within months. There are NO original staff left.
4. Dean also saw 2 sets of boards/elders resign because after their pleading for Nick to be sat his response was to stick with Nick.
5. The church went from over 200 people to less than 40 without 1 visit from Dean.
6. He allowed a man who had plead guilty in a bank fraud investigation serve and lead a church for over 2 years as the paper wrote article after article. How was the church supposed to grow when people think the pastor is a crook?
7. He never removed Nick(a convicted felon-that’s what you are when you plead guilty) until after he was sentenced to a year in jail. Even then I think he just said okay you’re not a part of C3 anymore but left the church still running..still no visit…Where is the care for the people involved in his actions???
8. He has never to my knowledge called and asked for forgiveness to any of the people who were involved in and hurt by C3 Asheville.
Barn, when I look at your Dad’s actions in this situation I can’t see any care for the people involved. I can’t see any humility(not listening to staff and pastors some he had known for years, not listening to seasoned elders in the body, not listening to peers-Steve Hickson, Phil Beauchler, not listening to boards he helped appoint, not listening to members and founding members). I can’t see that he cared at all about this situation truthfully and that’s what hurts. These people involved are sons and fathers and mothers and daughters themselves after all and they are a part of the body of Christ. You think it’s hard to plant a church….Try giving your all into a church plant and watching it fall to pieces and the body scattered because “oversight” is sticking Nick, not just once but time and time again, fallout after fallout. That’s what about 200 people just experienced and there is a lot of pain. Some have left the faith. Do you realize that? SOME PEOPLE HAVE LEFT THE FAITH because of this situation. Still many others are completely disillusioned and don’t know what to do. This situation has been DEVASTATING. I spoke with your Dad on the phone and I expressed these concerns and I couldn’t hear that he cared at all and that hurt. I don’t say these things to hurt you or your Dad but you need to know the other side to the story and he needs to be reminded of this until he turns to God in repentance.
I’m sympathetic to you @David and what you experienced. I honestly think Dad could have handled this way better. But supporting a blog that purely desires to knock out a church movement isn’t the answer. You basically took your experience and assumed that every C3 Church is handled this way by doing that. You have to understand that Nick Dimitris deceived everyone… including Dad. Bringing out your pitchfork and going after blood isn’t the answer. If the church had been healthy enough to get through it and be supportive, despite who’s in leadership for the remaining time, there would be a healthy church standing today.
David don’t think that I don’t have a clue on what’s going on. I actually went up 3 times and helped with worship during the whole situation because they were running out of worship leaders. Each time I went up and watched has the congregation dwindled. It’s a very sad situation. But imagine the strength that could have come out of that church after the trial was over (guilty or not guilty) b/c people stood by in unity.
Really @Berean? I’m not naive. I know that the whole situation could have been handled differently. But you’re saying that he should step down because you think he didn’t handle a crisis in 1 church out of the 30ish he looks after? Really??? Your lust for vengeance and justice far out ways your thirst for grace. You’ve thrown the first stone without even looking at yourself. Have a little grace. Dad is by far not perfect, but if we build churches based on your standards, there wouldn’t be many standing. Once again, building churches is really hard b/c you’re dealing with people that are imperfect and have problems. Even the pastors. See some flippin’ reason before making ridiculous claims like that.
I think the thread through much of what David has said about Dean Sweetman’s leadership is his REFUSAL TO LISTEN. How many times have I heard that about C3 leadership. This is systemic and something flawed about the C3 mentality. The leaders can’t take feedback of any sort. The same is happening with C3 Marion and Jude Blaney. I wonder if its refusal to listen or he can’t listen. Has Jude Blaney been taught not to listen? Are C3 pastors taught not to listen? I honestly think so.
Hi Barn,
Thank you for taking the time to comment. I understand that you are supporting your dad and can relate to him.
So imagine for one minute that your dad is sacked. It’s convenient for the organisation. After how many years of service? After what he put his family through? After the many sacrifices made? He was so loyal. He loved that job and the people he worked with. He thought they loved him. He feels betrayed. Surely just one mistake out of 30 churches is OK. What would he do next? Most of his friends are there. Will they still keep in touch? What would he tell people? Would he have to start all over again? Does he feel tainted? Was it just? Does anyone care? He was told it was for the greater good.
Maybe this will help you relate more to the many people and their families who were part of the C3 Ashville “sad situation”. How many personal stories of betrayal, loss and grieving are behind your words “running out of worship leaders” or “congregation dwindled”? Imagine being one of those that dwindled.
Now imagine having the power of oversight but failing to execute duty of care for that local body, your main job description. What words come to mind? How about “Overseer Steps Aside”?
These people aren’t just collateral damage. These are your brothers and sisters in Christ.
Unhappy Toons
Love and unity need truth.
Without truth, love is blind and unity just ends up a mob mentality. eg. Lynchings have unity.
If unity is so important why did Dean issue such an ultimatum to the congregation to get on the boat or leave? It seems unity is the card played by leaders to the people to ensure compliance and not have to be accountable themselves.
Are you suggesting people be united under immoral behavior and improper governance? When those around them are hurting? When leadership has not protected the sheep?
Again, church leadership has failed and it is amazing the low standard they require of their role.
True love and true unity are in Christ. (Not in propping up people’s careers.)
Good Lord there’s no way I’m going to read all this. I’m just going to skip it and ask you this. Apparently you don’t believe we build churches the right way and that’s fine. And I don’t necessarily believe you have a bad opinion. What church do you go to? I’m helping a church plant and I would love a great example (in your opinion) of a church that you believe does this really well?
I’m assuming you either attend a great church, don’t attend church at all (yet still believe), or you’re an atheist just aiming to divide us. I’m hoping you’re not the latter. There’s plenty of that going on on reddit ha.
Dear Barn, Sorry for the length of this… I know you like things short.
I speak as someone who was a committed member of C3 for over 15 years – inside the movement and in a variety of roles and across a number of local churches. I read the posts on this site with intense interest – much of what I experienced in C3 is stated here over and over again – which leads me to believe my issues with C3 were not personal but they are systemic to the movement. That’s kind of comforting.
If you grew up as a child in C3, have parents that are in C3, were given a filtered view of C3 through your parents, all your friends go to C3, know nothing but C3… is there the chance that you might have had a sheltered and narrow development?
Is there the chance that you view might be incomplete? I see you reacting on a very emotional level. It seems that the criticism found on this website is totally at odds with your mindset – it must seem to you perplexing and incongruous.
A common response of cult members is to completely dismiss criticism of the movement and in particular the leader. I’m not saying C3 is a cult but it has definitely showed cult-like traits for the past 10+ years. Movements become cults and eventually self destruct because they cannot objectively self-assess or take in criticism from those outside who have perspective (or those inside who have perspective). Invariably cults seem confident, decisive and arrogant.
Notably cults develop strong defensive techniques. Check out how the Kong Hee saga is being handled – this will obviously backfire on the movement causing major embarrassment and setting the movement back.Often one of the last defences is when the leader moves into being a seer – Phil Pringle has prophesied that Kong will not be jailed. (Personally I think this act will negatively affect Kong’s chances of keeping out of jail – just imaging what the judiciary think about that being splashed over the media! Not wise Phil – Kong’s lawyers would nave appreciated Phil’s little contribution.
There is also Jude Blaney situation and C3 Marion – traincrash waiting to happen.
Unfortunately C3 fits this cult-like profile. It comes down to a flawed concept or style of leadership.
The best thing for you would be to do some critical analysis of your own – in particular thinking about the leadership style in C3. Does it empower people? is there nepotism? Does it use authority in an abusive and controlling way? How is money used? Is there a warped sense of entitlement in the leadership group?
There are far more people who have been members of C3 who are now outside the movement than people who are in. That is a FACT for the Australian churches. What could a balanced and fair minded person conclude from that? Why does this site exist and is read by many people inside C3? Why do C3 people react so extremely against criticism? What does that say about the personal maturity and integrity of the leaders and the potential longevity movement itself?
Hi Barn, firstly thanks for contributing here. It would take considerable courage for a C3 church representative to post here. Not everyone here is out to get C3 church for personal revenge. My concern – deep concern in fact – is how your church is an EXAMPLE (not the only one) of what can happen when experience is first priority.
Excellent worship ministries are not a substitute for teaching. When does a C3church ever preach like the apostles commanded church leaders to preach? Man’s sinful nature, need for Jesus’ death on cross to pay for our sins, faith ALONE in Christ ALONE necessary for salvation….. e.g. Where *in the bible* did the apostles preach the *necessity* of tithing to receive God’s blessings in our lives?
You may think that is splitting hairs and I suppose to many people [who haven’t thought through the implications of what is taught] that is true. However there are many young Christians and seekers who have abandoned the faith BECAUSE they doubted their salvation. They didn’t have ecstatic experiences, speak in tongues, or receive blessings like it was promised to them if they accepted Jesus into their heart.
Speaking things into existence and thinking positively did not prevent personal tragedies,remove abusers from their lives, or turn things around for them. There should not be a need for people like myself to confront bizarre messages that they absorbed only after prolonged “worship” because their rational thought processes have been briefly paralysed. Online forums should not become casualty departments because of false teachings.
Yes we all know there are much worse preachers and cultists out there who are waaayy bigger fish in the sea than C3 – and there are so many people speaking and typing against them as well believe me!!! However “we’re not that bad….” is no excuse for that at all. If *any preacher* -large or small – knows better but still preaches what *gets results in man’s eyes* e.g. more church members- I wouldn’t want to be them when face God on Judgement Day.
As to your father: thankfully he is a much better talker than type-er. I listened one of your father’s messages- his message was too man-centred (for my liking anyway) and the need for personal vision was talked about, not faith in Jesus Christ. I hope the latter is the exception to the rule because he sounds like a really nice man.
Hi Barn, I’m coming to this conversation late – apologies for that.
Hope your church plant is going well. As you asked for an example of a good church, will direct you to
http://www.ecfa.org
Recommend you sign your church up as a member from the beginning. Will help to establish accountability and sound operational principles from the get-go.
If you feel you can’t sign up to their seven standards, take the time to ask yourself why not.
Kudos to you for engaging in the conversation on this site. Know it can’t be easy.
Perhaps Barn should forward your link to his father Dean Sweetman, as he is head of C3 Americas.
Excellent. As for Sweetman thinking it is too long…Try the Holy Bible sometime…a LOT longer…. or will you ‘skip it’..???
Good one. You’ve got very clear logic. You assume that because I skip the ramblings of a clearly religious nut, that I skip reading the bible. But I’ve seen enough to understand what you guys are now. There’s no reasoning with you. Some of you you literally are a bunch of whacked out weirdos that are tired of the modern church and can’t even function properly in society. I thank God that people my age see your logic and usually just dismiss it before even trying to interpret it.
“But I’ve seen enough to understand what you guys are now. There’s no reasoning with you. Some of you you literally are a bunch of whacked out weirdos that are tired of the modern church and can’t even function properly in society.”
who are you to judge barn? who appointed you lord to judge us?
you can see through a keyhole with both eyes…you’re so narrow-minded.
you are very miserable. very upset. very offended. very tight about all sorts of things. and the tragedy of this is you’re only like twenty five years old!
if you want to cut out your family and your legacy from the house of god, just get critical. just start to defend your position and justify a resistance to what god is doing with some criticism – and you’ll find it actually severs the spirit.
you’re too young to be this screwed up! you’re too young to be this hard-headed about doctrine and to get all angry and bitter and tough! PLEASE! what are you doing?!?
just leave now! if you want to be a builder then stick around. most fools criticize and- you know, that’s the fact of the matter. any fool can criticize and most fools do. the deal is, jesus called us to build the church and we build it with words.
“just leave now! if you want to be a builder then stick around. most fools criticize and- you know, that’s the fact of the matter. any fool can criticize and most fools do. the deal is, jesus called us to build the church and we build it with words.”
What are you building? Ironically you’ve built a community that aims to tear other communities down. The fact that you guys can’t comprehend that is shocking. You’ve even assumed I’m “screwed up” based on a few comments I’ve made. You’re just reiterating my point that you can’t be reasoned with. Your basis for logic is just way different than mine.
“You’ve even assumed I’m “screwed up” based on a few comments I’ve made. You’re just reiterating my point that you can’t be reasoned with. Your basis for logic is just way different than mine.”
i’m curious barn.
what makes you say, “You’re just reiterating my point that you can’t be reasoned with”?
what makes you say, “your basis for logic is just way different than mine”?
Interestingly enough, ” Understanding Influence for Leaders at all Levels” – that Phil allegedly refers to either indirectly or indirectly to in You The Leader – the spin has happened for years and appears it will forever.
I recent heard hat there was jubilation that a song from a particular c3 had gone #1 in the iTunes inspirational charts! Well, it had! The single! For one day! And if the entire church, or at least half, get on and buy it, that will make it surge to number 1!!! This was about 6 weeks ago. Note that the song which was number 2 to it is still in the charts at number 7. The c3 song isn’t. It’s been proven you can cook the charts – refer mother who purchased all her daughter’s singles from every shop in her city so she could go #1….
See the hype? “C3 is the fastest growing movement in Australia!!”. I’d like to suggest it’s also one of the ones experiencing the most loss. And does it get questioned? Remember the movie 1984 – when the people were told the rations were increasing but were in fact decreasing.
Yes, spin and marketing exists everywhere. By why in the church??
UNITED CHURCH, 2B Huntsman Place, Asheville, NC
New name for Pastor Nick’s Church
UNITED CHURCH, 2B Huntsman Place, Asheville, NC
@barn Barn quotes,”Most of you flippin’ believe in the power of the cross and that it actually changes lives. Yet you choose to criticize the ones that actually carry the burden and spread the gospel. If you actually understood the amount of pressure and faith it takes to build just 1 church, I guarantee you, you would be disgusted with yourself right now. Disgusted.”
point proven. Don’t need to say much more. Sad thing is YOU have NO clue what this church went through. Served max capacity and guess what?!?!? Their pastors (youth, young adults, children’s) were NOT paid. Pretty sure we know all about carrying a burden. Lots of time and dedication and no pay…last time I checked God wasn’t about the fame and glitter c3 makes being a pastor about. Funny how you are defending ONE criminal vs 250 members. Weird huh??