A commentor on a critics site said,
I just want to tell you how much I appreciate the existence of your blog, which I only found a few days ago. I am getting married in six weeks, in my C3 Church, and two weeks ago one of my parents told me that they refuse to attend my wedding after reading C3 Watch, which they say is “scary stuff” and they are unable to “celebrate your C3 marriage”.
It has given me great heart that their ranting does not go unchecked or unwatched. While it does not diminish the pain of having someone refuse to be part of a key point in my life, it does help bolster my faith in humanity which was feeling sorely beaten!
Stay blessed, brother and may the peace of Jesus be with you.
Source: Kath Chapman, c3churchwatch not worth the effort!, C3ChurchWatch Watch, http://c3churchwatchwatch.wordpress.com/2013/02/02/c3churchwatch-not-worth-the-effort/comment-page-1/#comment-155, Comment made: JANUARY 13, 2014 – 8:04 PM. (Accessed 08/02/2014.)
The author of the site Steve, (also known as Steve Rowe, FL), said:
Oh gosh, I am so sorry to hear this. We will pray for you and hope that your parent will have a change of heart.
I hope you will have every blessing in your marriage and a really blessed wedding on the day.
Source: Steve, c3churchwatch not worth the effort!, C3ChurchWatch Watch, http://c3churchwatchwatch.wordpress.com/2013/02/02/c3churchwatch-not-worth-the-effort/comment-page-1/#comment-156, Comment made: JANUARY 14, 2014 – 10:06 AM. (Accessed 08/02/2014.)
Maybe Kath needs to “Honour her mother and father”. They may have VERY good reasons for not wanting their daughter to be married under the authorities of C3 Church. Consider this story:
A young couple I know very well; who have attended C3 Oxford falls since its beginning are very distressed. They have been dating for 3 years and are engaged they had a future planned. The young lady spends ALL her spare time working for free at the church. Her Pastor has now advised her not to marry her fiance because he doesn’t believe in tithing.
Incredible!
Source: https://c3churchwatch.com/c3-confessions/#comment-10633. (Accessed 08/02/2014.)
You do not have to read C3 Church Watch to have concerns over the C3 Church Movement but the reason people read this blog is because they had concerns in the first place!
NOTE: ALL LINKS PROVIDED IN THIS ARTICLE WERE ACTIVE ON 10/02/2013.
C3 Church Watch 
To Kath
As someone who went through similar many years ago can I beseech you yes to honour your mother and father. To put the Church before them is as Jesus said is to ‘Make the commandments of God of no affect by your traditions’ Our family did the same thing in another denomination and eventually when I came to a better understanding I was repenting of what I had done .It is very difficult to change the past so have a wedding your parents will be present at and you will never regret it .We still have, over 20 years later, pain and repercussions in our family from a decision to put the “Church” before the commandments of God.
Take Courage
and follow Christ and not man.
An anonymous person on your blog shared a brief story about anonymous people that has not been verified nor proven.
Hmmmm it looks like C3ChurchWatch is a little defensive and insecure.
May I also ask how much pastoral experience/authority/knowledge you have in order to publicly and obnoxiously tell someone you have never met on how to engage with their parents?
YOUR BLOG IS RIDICULOUS
@ Doggy, as a casual reader and ex-C3 church goer, I would say this blog is anything but ridiculous. The posts are generally well researched with links/evidence provided. Now I left C3 a long time ago (well before this blog), but I can say that the things this blog is picking up on correlate with my own personal experiences. In fact, the C3 push to fool the congregation into thinking God’s blessings can be purchased for a $ price seems to have gotten even worse. I’ve seen families torn up over debts incurred to pay more money to the Church, including my own.
False doctrine like this needs to be exposed, and if you don’t believe me, go to a C3 church see if you can sit through one mass where they don’t talk money at some point. Miracle offerings, love offerings, building funds, buy the pastor’s books, his artwork, pay for the course, it is relentless. And all the time the pastor flaunts his wealth because he is a “man of God, and God wants you too to be rich. So give as much as you possible can”. And in the meantime no comprehensive audited financial statements are ever seen. Have you never wondered why?
I would invite you to read through the archives of this blog and examine for yourself.
That’s odd. ‘Mass’? I’m not sure you could have spent that much time with C3, Icarus. Or maybe that is what you did – sit through one ‘mass’. Mass is a Catholic institution.
Anyhoo,we digress, because the post above is not talking about money, methods or marketing media. It is talking about marriage, and in particular, one young woman’s wedding day which has been tragically spoilt because one, yes, one of her parents has read this blog and now won’t set foot in a C3 church.
Which is actually saying more about the responsibility of blogging and even reading blogs than it is about Kath’s personal life.
Maybe this blog says some things which have a degree of truth to them, but there is always, and I mean always, another side to every story, which means that if you only believe one person’s viewpoint you might not get all the facts, or all the story.
Therefore, you are hard pressed to make a judgment based on only the prosecution’s evidence, which is why, in our court system, we also have a defence. Why should blogs be any different?
Someone is saying here that Kath should honour her father and mother, which is correct, Biblically, but they miss out the other part of that instruction which actually says fathers shouldn’t provoke their children to wrath.
And how do you define honouring a parent? What if each parent has a different perspective? Does anyone, in this case, know if both parents are saved, or if they are even together, because only one of them objects to the marriage taking place in a C3 church?
But, look, where does it say that the one parent who will not attend the wedding has said they shouldn’t marry? It only says that parent will not attend the wedding because it is on a certain church. I think the author of the post is being presumptuous to say they have not endorsed the marriage.
And what of the other parent? Presumably they will be attending or Kath would have said that neither parent would be present. But she only refers to one as not wanting to attend.
So what clause does the legal fraternity here add to this situation, when one parent endorses the marriage at C3 and the other doesn’t want to attend? Have you scripture for this?
Bare in mind that scripture also says that a man shall leave his parents and cleave to his wife. Now I take this to mean that it is perfectly acceptable and honourable to leave our parents for marriage. In fact, parents are to let their children go when they have found a suitable marriage partner.
I hope they all find happiness and are allowed to enjoy their big day.
Ah yes, my apologies. I’ve been going to a traditional church lately. Service, not mass. But in the 90’s I sat through years of C3 services, home groups, you name it (and whatever you want to call it). Anyway glad we got that important point sorted, as other readers might have been baffled. Good pick up.
My comment was in reply to Doggy’s last sentence which was a criticism about this blog. I happen to think this blog serves a valuable purpose. You talk about:
…”but there is always, and I mean always another side to every story, which means that if you only believe one person’s viewpoint you might not get all the facts, or all the story.”.
And I agree. This blog is a check and balance to the propaganda coming out of C3. So using your own logic, you agree as well. As does “Kath”. Otherwise where is the “other side of the story”? Who is asking the hard questions? Have you asked Phil Pringle why he was twisting the facts or withholding information from the Kong Hee trial? Have you asked PP what the deal is with his Doctorate? Because to anyone outside of C3 it looks like he got it from a diploma mill. Hardly conduct which you would expect of a church leader. And there are many such questions this blog asks.
To be honest this particular story didn’t interest me a great deal. “Kath” could have gone to Vegas to get married by Elvis and it would have been a much better story, with more interesting wedding pics.
But what does interest me is your response. Have you ever heard of the saying “Can’t see the forest for the trees”? The important point of the story, is that a parent has concerns about C3. The church. The wedding is incidental. It could have been a baptism or a funeral for that matter.
You’ve read my post and I think I’ve mentioned some important features of C3 which I believe validate the parent’s, or the blogger’s, or whoever’s concern about their conduct. Yet you merrily skip over those entirely in your response, focusing largely on the wedding.
You missed the point completely.
Anyway I’m sure if there is anything on this blog that think is factually incorrect and you have evidence to the contrary I’m sure you can present that to the blogger and they’ll take it into account.
I don’t think it’s quite fair sinnomore to say the Parent ..one of her parents “has read this blog and now won’t set foot in a C3 church”. What if this one parent read this blog and proceeded to compare C3 teachings VS the Holy Bible? Give them some credit for being a discerning individual.
Mes, mon ami, Mr tt, Kath herself said so in her comment (albeit on another blog):
“one of my parents told me that they refuse to attend my wedding after reading C3 Watch, which they say is “scary stuff” and they are unable to “celebrate your C3 marriage”
I done think you understand what happens when a young couple is planning their marriage and the big day (which is about now) is about to come along.
What parent refuses to attend their child’s wedding on the basis of reading a blog? Is that any way to win your adult daughter to Jesus even if it was true she had stumbled into some church which said things you don’t agree with. You put religion above family, your own kids?
So you abandon your kids ‘cos they grow up and do something you wouldn’t do?
Grown up kids – adults for goodness sake, not even under your roof anymore?
There’s something wrong with this whole deal.
Why are you even defending it?
Sinno, I for one agree with you. The parent was wrong to introduce the stress of not showing up to a wedding based on reading a blog. So we agree there, although I suspect the family has bigger issues if that’s quoted as the reason as it seems a bit lame to me. Perhaps they really don’t like the guy she’s marrying and are searching for excuses? Who knows. I for one hope they sorted out their difference and had a great day. Even if it was without an Elvis impersonator.
Now let’s move on on the reason for the parent’s concern about C3. Perhaps they read about the dodgy Doctorate? The false prophesies? The twisting of scripture to entice people to give them money? The way they allowed Nick Dimitris to continue as pastor even with significant evidence of bank fraud?
I’m interested, do you have any concerns about those as well, or are you just really really, passionate about weddings?
Sounds completely fishy…a C3 person admitting [ shock, horror] that someone won’t step foot into a C3 place..and Churchwatch is to blame..[Not the Bible, not knowing God’s word..]What drove them to doubt C3 in the first place? to then make them seek out churchwatch?.C3 Headquarters probably got their ‘creative’ arts team for this one.
@tt,
‘What drove them to doubt C3 in the first place? to then make them seek out church watch?’
I think you got the order the wrong way round, there, tt, Cart before the horse, so to speak.
Again, Kath tells you what drove them to doubt C3. It was ‘after reading C3 Watch, which they say is “scary stuff”’.
So they read c3churchwatch, believed what they said, and decided it is ‘scary stuff’ so were made afraid or uncomfortable about entering a C3 church. Even for their own daughter’s wedding.
Why are you still being an apologist for this sadly misled parent in this unfortunate incident, or for what c3churchwatch has helped to cause?
All joking aside, show me some honesty here, because isn’t it c3churchwatch’s aim to discourage people from going near a C3 church? Would you see this as a sign of success for the blog?
@Icarus,
‘Sinno, I for one agree with you. The parent was wrong to introduce the stress of not showing up to a wedding based on reading a blog.’
You should have stopped right there. That is the correct conclusion.
@Sinno, what has C3churchwatch helped to “cause”? The only thing this blog does is put a spotlight on some of the nonsense coming out of C3.
If Phil Pringle was awarded a Doctorate from a reputable university (and not a suspected diploma mill) the blogger wouldn’t have have anything to write about.
If C3 pastors stopped twisting scripture in the relentless demand for money from their congregation, the blogger wouldn’t have have anything to write about.
If C3 pastors would be open and transparent about the relationship with CHC, including if any financial support has been given to KH, the blogger wouldn’t have anything to write about.
If Nick Dimitris didn’t commit bank fraud, and if C3 leadership didn’t let him stay on as pastor in the face of the evidence, the blogger wouldn’t have anything write about.
Have you spotted the clues yet?
How about you move on from the wedding, they’re probably happily married now, and spend some time looking at some of the issues this blog raises, such as the ones I just listed. If there is anything in this blog that is factually incorrect, and you can provide evidence of that, you should let the blogger know so they can correct any factual errors.
This is very sad. Still in denial, Icarus. Still condoning the offensive condescending manner of the suggestions in the post.
And now you want to continue a handful of one-sided debates on claims that are already reiterated over and over and over on other threads ad infinitum as if that is all you care about.
As I said, you should have stopped right where you agreed that ‘the parent was wrong to introduce the stress of not showing up to a wedding based on reading a blog’.
You almost got it right.
Step 1: question motives of commentor. Is the commentor being critical? sarcastic? wanting to correct or provide clarification?
Step 2: respond to the REAL pain. How would Y’shua respond? Remember the first miracle documented in the Gospel of John?
i don’t think I agree with the way this article was approached. very sloppy and unprofessional. but sadly, I know of a of a friend and his wife who attended C3oxford falls and other local c3 churches. his wife believed the tithe doctrine. he didn’t. in a c3 counselling session she didn’t know how to deal with him not tithing. she believed he was cursing the family. he got counselling on this and was rebuked for not tithing. he refused to tithe and the church backed her and they ended up divorcing! my mate was working himself to the bone and she would buy expensive things to show the outworking of their faith which is why he wanted counselling. you don’t realise how bad this doctrine is until you see things like this happen and my friend left sydney after this.
Wow. This is the C3 experience in a nutshell. I’ve seen this sort of bent doctrinal view manifest in a variety of personal disasters over the years In C3 – from what I’ve seen personally, the divorce rate and disintegration of families in C3 must be sky-high. They are definitely very cult-like in their techniques to break families apart.
The volume of people is high but the personal misery of the adherents eclipses that. Sure, most of the pastors have “status anxiety” – many are aging and see themselves as underachieving in life, many of the adherents are similar – but the lack of teaching combined with the techniques of control and manipulation is a very bad cocktail.
C3 is just about a spent religion. I feel, regrettably after a promising start in the 1980’s – we all wanted Phil Pringle and the movement to succeed – it’s best days are behind it.
The view must be extraordinary up there on your self made pedestal! This site is nothing more than a “Christian gossip tabloid! Well done on being part of the problem and not the solution! Yay You!
Hi Icarus,
I have in the past commented on this blog questioning the relevance of a site … The moderator has chosen not to post it! My thinking is there are safer ways for Christians to have an intellectual debate regarding divergence and interpretation of scripture than it being in the public domain like this. Apparently, though this site is more about provoking controversial argument and strife and avoids accountability them-selves!
And No, I do not attend a C3 church or in fact any other church. Yes – in the past I have been heavily involved in “church” in many capacities including leadership. As to whether I will ever consider returning to church in the “traditional” sense again? Maybe… The church without walls isn’t so bad either! In saying that, I am quite familiar with C3. Credentials sorted??? Brilliant!
Irrespective of my position on church attendance or affiliation or lack there of – I find this blog reckless and irresponsible. It is a public blog, therefore it is not to be assumed every one stumbling upon it will be of Christian orientation or understanding. (I found it looking up my daughter’s dance school) If your all so mature in your faith, which you obviously are attempting to appear so, then you should know better than to take issues like this so public. The effects of such a blog with you all airing your opinions and personal grievances reflects badly on “Christianity”.
An exert from my un-published comment;
As this is a public blog, your audience is not to be presumably solely Christian – and as such I think careful thought need to be executed when setting ones self up as a self appointed “church watcher”! Although I really am a no-body who’s opinion is without validity, it does stand to prove that it is the possibility that it will be the no-bodies reading this. It is also the no-bodies who can be easily dissuaded from attending a church at all purely due to the content of such a blog…
“I am currently studying a double major in History & Sociology, my concern with sites like this, is that history is littered with people proclaiming to have the ultimate truth and persecuting others in the name of self righteousness. What makes one person think they are any more right than another? Or justified in pulling someone else down and smearing their name through the mud? How does one justify that?
I agree some doctrines in modern Christianity are questionable, and there should be a safe forum for intellectual debate on certain topics, However I’m not convinced a safe way to do that is by tearing others down via a public blog? We learn on the back of past held truths and progress is made because of them. I’m not sure it is helpful to intellectual inquiry to tear down and ridicule others so vehemently. Do you not think that perhaps making things so personal detracts from intellectual debate? Just a thought! I agree, Christians certainly should be encouraged not to check their brains out at the door when entering a church – and nor should they when they read sites like this.”
My question to you is, what makes you any more right in what you’re doing than those you are accusing, if equally this method has the potential to turn people away from the message of the cross?
I pose the question, don’t you think Christianity as a whole is already under enough attack without sites like this adding to the speculation or perhaps truth, that Christians are a bunch of back stabbing, bickering lunatics just fighting amongst themselves? On this topic, I would suggest “Christianity” doesn’t need this kind of publicity.“
end of exert;
I also challenged the author to seek out some of the good that C3 and other churches do and blog on that for a change- because shock horror – whether you like it or not, admit it or not, many churches this writer has chosen to defame – have and do good things for the community!
I find this blog a poor attempt at intellectual debate. It is not a sound reflection on Christian ethic or belief.
Selah.
‘Do you not think that perhaps making things so personal detracts from intellectual debate? Just a thought!’ Kylie ..John the Baptist didnt think so…Christ didnt think so when confronting the money-changers in the temple.As a history student, do you think winston churchill and roosevelt were ‘wrong’ to confront the Nazi menace THROUGH the media of the times?
“effects of such a blog with you all airing your opinions and personal grievances reflects badly on “Christianity”. Kylie as a student of History…do you think ‘appeasement’ is a solution? Biblical History is littered with MANY references to what appeasement concerning God’s Law leads to…In 2000 years of Christianity , many breakaways have formed and wreaked havoc in generations of lives because of the False teachings, false apostles and False gospels that Christians were warned about, and are at war with God’s Word-the Bible.
EVERY ! Biblical Apostle WARNED about false Teaching. Do you really think that ‘gossip’ can tear down Christianity? That Blogs like this Turn people away from Christianity?”.
You need to stop thinking locally and start thinking Globally as to what is happening to Christianity, the Destruction of young Christians Biblical Knowledge regarding the Heretical teachings that are invading the true Church.
Would you like to know what REALLY turns people away?
Heretical teachings as in the Little Gods heresy.[otherwise known as secular humanism].
Blasphemies of the Holy Spirit ,False Visions, False Man inspired prophecies…
Pastors parading their opulent lifestyles and calling themselves Christian apostles.
Blogs like this exist because we live in a democratic society…with a principle of free speech …the same freedom that allows agreement and dispute between individuals.
If you think blogs like this shouldn’t exist…then you suscribe to a mentality that is most prevalent in soviet Russia and North Korea…Censorship…THAT is pretty judgemental don’t you think? You may learn about this in your studies.
Have you presented your ‘views’ on other denominations sites? why not? Or is it just this one?
If Biblical discernment sites shouldn’t have free speech..then neither should Pringle and C3 propagandists have the right to spread their teachings through the public medium with ‘anointed paintings’ by pringle and suchlike nonsense.
Does not C3 have their own ‘sympathetic’ critical website as a reponse to this blog?
I was amused to see a C3 inspired ‘churchwatch watch’ site with their gossip…would you shut them down too? [although..i thought it was selling churchWatch timepieces..i would like a new watch!].
Finally, and seriously, no-one that i know of, that has been on this forum, has ever NOT wished that C3 patrons/members would read the Holy bible and see if it matches with what Pringle is espousing…but the fact is, and it is easily verified using the Holy Bible, that it is vain imaginings..and his appearance as a ‘self-proclaimed’ apostle/founder/president/CEO of a pentecostal/ apostolic church has been proven again and again to be a mere counterfeit of the true Bible Word of God.
Blogs like this do a lot of good, especially in Theological accuracy..despite some ‘gossip’…
On your Last day..your final judgement…Will you say to God you were Faithful to His Holy Word? The Holy Bible..Or will you say i accepted different doctrines and different teachings that i KNEW were not Biblical?
I was going to reply to this and started too – and part of me would like too – but to be honest, mostly I just can’t be bothered! It ‘s like trying to argue with one of those door knocking religious types – they come to convert you and argue their point come hell or high water.. But rarely – if ever do they listen…
To much can easily be lost in interpretation and it is too easy for offence to be taken via this kind of dialogue. Neither of which would be my intention.
I wish you all the best. Cheers.
I posted my comment in the wrong place – my apologies… Please look under my previous comment for my response.Ta.
Kylie…no-one has ‘attacked’you ‘ridiculously’…and yes, i have read your comments carefully. I can see that you are passionate about Christianity, and God bless you for that. I don’t think you have made your point ‘explicitly’ but, what about the ‘gossip’of innocent christians who have escaped these organisations? Are they not ‘testimonies’ ? Nowhere do you mention the point that a LOT of ex C3 or similar cultures NEED to find that others have encountered the same thing. Simply focusing on minimal ‘gossip’ comments negates the good that is occurring as well. Many people have found speaking up automatic grounds for ‘shunning’, how will they get their message out? For instance, ‘gossip’ revealed the jimmy swaggart scandal, Baker scandal, kong Hee, and the list goes on and on, to THEIR shame…not Christ’s shame. How does this help the cause of Christ? How about many, many people NOT regarding their Minister as God Himself? what is YOUR solution?
If you could see the behaviour of some of these ‘new apostles’,CEO”s or directors OUTSIDE of ‘brandname church’, you would be horrified. The more ‘bad seeds’ out of the church, the better, and i think you agree with that. Every newspaper in the country has a gossip column, now referred to as ‘social commentators’ ,you would know this studying sociology, and you wouldn’t shut them down, remember, it is only ‘gossip’ until it is revealed as fact.
The majority of this forum, so far as i can see, focuses on false teachings and false teachers, and i wouldn’t call them or their love for truth, ‘disgusting’…if you would check youtube or the asian websites for their view on kong hee, Pringle and Cho…you will find their comments make this forum look like play-school.The beauty of forums like this is that everyone can express their view without fear of ‘censorship’.
Hi the truth.. your right I haven’t’ been attacked ridiculously I’ll admit that a bit exaggerated – sorry about that.. (as we have a virtual handshake) 🙂
Sadly, I have experienced this horror you refer to… (remember non church goer). I’ve been trying my best the past few years to prove God does not exist and religion is probably just a mental illness – an escape from the reality of life!! Sadly I have failed – and my thoughts still drift to being sadden by this kind of thing (we are who we are).
One of the saddest things about human nature is we interpret the world according to so many varying and diverse influences, and it becomes far to easy to judge and condemn people to the realms of our own understanding – interpreting them according to what we think someone is saying. This blog has pointed that out – for example I question how this blog is constructive, what is its point of difference to those who are being accused? and I am automatically assumed a part of C3. (Reflecting on a few comments on here, “If i wasn’t so intrenched, if I left i would see???)” Our Intensions in person are hard enough to read between one another, how much more can text be so easily be misinterpreted? I’m not even going to go to the bible ancient text – interpreted modern western mindset? The scholars who are amazing btw – don’t agree, what hope does the lay man have? Often many Including myself have interpreted the bible wrong due to this simple element. shesh!!
Although Personally I’m made of tougher stuff than allowing any comments on here to influence me or particularly effect my worldview (sadly i’m too stubborn). I can see how this could be different for someone else who might have commented on this blog, and was genuinely searching or questioning or needing a bit of Christian love. Thats my point… I just think ALLLLL of it is so unbelievably terribly sad.
Cheers big ears!! Take care!
I hope you’re not ‘gossiping’ about my ears ! Good luck Kyles, you’re a feisty one and i totally respect that..Christianity needs passionate people like you, and good luck with your studies.
Please excuse my many typos’ trying to listen to “home readers” as I type..
Thank you Mr/Mrs Church watcher for your reply. Appreciate you taking the time to respond.
You guys take care, and play nice! – K 🙂