INTRODUCTION
The more Phil Pringle speaks about Kong Hee, the more he exposes himself. This article examines Phil Pringle’s introduction to Kong Hee’s session on Thursday night at Presence Conference 2014. Before doing that, we want to point out how manipulative Phil Pringle and Kong Hee appeared to be at the conference, constructing the week in such a way that Kong prospered at the expense of those who attended the Conference.
KONG JOB 1
Before Kong Hee spoke on Thursday night, Phil Pringle got Kong Hee up on the previous day to present misleading information over Kong Hee’s case. Was this a plug to encourage Christians to invite friends for Kong Hee’s free night session at his Presence 2014 Conference?
Phil Pringle’s Kong Job At Presence 2014 (Part 1)
In the above article, consider this statement as you read/listen what Phil Pringle says in his introduction to Kong Hee. Phil Pringle has made it clear that he knows what Kong Hee is going to be talking about – and it’s not going to be about Jesus. It was going to be about Kong Hee’s “trials and tribulations”. And Phil Pringle was right. Kong Hee preached all about himself and his trials.
“Pastor Kong and I are friends and we go back a long way and uh- he has recently in the last three and a half years faced one of the most serious- uh- trials and tribulations that I’ve known of any minister to travel through and I know he’ll be referring to that somewhat tomorrow night.”
KONG JOB 2
On Wednesday afternoon, was Phil Pringle establishing a scenario that disallowed questions?. If anyone noticed what Phil Pringle was doing at Presence 2014 Conference, they would be right in questioning Pringle’s motives. Why did Phil Pringle misrepresent the Singaporean government? Why did Phil Pringle distort the attendance figures of City Harvest Church? Why did Phil Pringle distort the evidence over the investigations, trial and case? Why was he so keen to get large crowds for Kong Hee’s night?
Was Phil Pringle using Houston’s authority and his own to shut down any critical thought over Kong Hee’s case and his attendance at Presence Conference 2014?
Phil Pringle’s Kong Job At Presence 2014 (Part 2) Hillsong “Stands” with C3 & CHC?
KONG JOB 3: PRINGLE USING PSYCHOLOGICAL MANIPULATION TO TRICK PEOPLE
And now this observation: Phil Pringle “praying” for Kong Hee before he “preaches”.
What Phil Pringle gave at Kong Hee’s introduction was not a prayer. Phil Pringle was simply weaving his way into people’s hearts, minds and wallets, manipulating people to blindly accept Kong Hee’s stories without question – to eventually have them financially support Kong Hee’s court case. Why would a pastor do this? Here are a few observations we made on Pringle’s introduction.
Once again we will quote the Presence Conference 2014 brochure to reveal how orchestrated Phil Pringle has constructed his Presence Conference sessions. Nothing is by accident?
“The entire experience has been created with you in mind […]” [Source]
Keep this in mind when hearing what Phil Pringle says,
“I know that the power and the presence of almighty God is going to come in here, touch our lives in this incredible atmosphere Israel has prepared with leading us in our worship. Where God can come and touch each one of us here tonight.”
“Can you close your eyes? Just reach out to the Lord, and to the back now, and all round this auditorium, I’d like you to lift up your voice in some level, and let’s just pray for one minute here to prepare our hearts and open our soul for God to touch our lives, in Jesus’ mighty name.”
Take note that Israel Houton is from Joel Osteen’s popular Lakewood Church. Phil Pringle would have used Israel’s popularity to draw Christians into his Presence Conference that Thursday night for Kong Hee’s session. Phil Pringle says “this incredible atmosphere” was something “Israel has prepared with leading us in our worship”. It is important to note that Phil Pringle is attributing the musical experience and the emotional level of the group gathered to the “Holy Spirit”.
Consider how C3 teaches their C3 college students in their final year how to manipulate and persuade people. Is this what Pringle is doing?
“You will need to consider whether your audience will oppose or agree with your ideas. You also need to consider their values and attitudes. The recent movie What Women Want with Mel Gibson explored just this idea. Gibson played a male chauvinist advertising agency star. He developed the ability to read women’s minds following an accident. This new-found talent allowed Gibson to come up with advertisements that women loved. Why? He started with what women wanted rather than starting from his own experiences.”
“This facility of reaching into the mind of your audience might not be so simple outside life in the movies, but it does demonstrate that the real test of an effective message is not what the originator of the idea holds dear. Rather, understanding how the audience is thinking about an issue is critical, and respecting their perspective on things that will affect them will pay dividends.” [Source – Understanding Influence]
It becomes clear that Phil Pringle is capitalising on people’s expectations of “God” for his own benefit – weaving his own agenda through their trust in his “prayers” and controlled atmospheres and false expectations. At the end of the night, it is Kong that touches people’s hearts – not God. Not once did Kong Hee preach a sermon on the bible. He preached his life, not Jesus.
People clearly weren’t sure where Pringle was going with this. When people often have their eyes open and have their arms folded, it often means they are observing, considering or being cautious about what is being said by someone. It’s clear that Phil Pringle notices this resistance among people and tries to disarm the discerners in the crowd when he says, “You may have never done this before but I’m urging you, every single person, to unfold your arms, close your eyes, reach out to heaven, and ask Him to speak to YOU here this evening in Jesus’ mighty name”.
The rest of this prayer appears to be like psychological antics and suggestions, similar to the ways Derren Brown converted atheists to believe in God.
KONG HEE’S LAWYERS CONUNDRUM?
Pringle states,
“Recently his lawyers submitted a case to the judge to consider where he would dismiss all charges. That’s two weeks ago, there’s another two weeks to go. On May 5 he will come back with a decision, 11 days. And – ah – so we need to believe God and pray together, that – it seems like an impossible circumstance, not even the lawyers are that positive about the outcome. However they must be feeling somewhat positive to actually even attempt that – ah – all charges be dropped, in Jesus’ mighty name. Let’s believe God right now!!”
So now Kong’s lawyers are “not even … that positive about the outcome”? Didn’t Pringle say this the previous night?
“God bless all the lawyers here but they have to always consider the hypothetical negative and defend against that and these lawyers are feeling so somewhat positive that they have submitted a thing that says, let’s drop all the charges judge, there’s no case against these people even though it’s been going on for three and a half years.”
Yesterday, the lawyers were hopeful which is why Pringle requested, “that we fill this auditorium with believers who are supporting one of the great churches of this century” and stand for Kong “in a really powerful way” (more like monetary way). But today these lawyers are “not even … that positive about the outcome”? Is Phil Pringle deliberately playing with the facts so he can play with people’s emotions to get them to financially support Kong after his session?
THE PRAYER: THE POWERLESSNESS OF PRINGLE’S GOD
And now to demonstrate just how futile and wretched Pringle’s faith is:
“Father! The power of God comes upon this circumstance, in the name of Jesus.”
Well that didn’t work did it Ps. Pringle? So much for your faith, anointing and prophetic office. It took the Singaporean government to prove you were a fraud. The “power of God” and your prayer of faith clearly failed to deliver Kong Hee from their hands yet again.
THE PRAYER: PRINGLE’S CONFESSION OF KONG’S GUILT?
Phil Pringle continues:
“The power of God comes upon this circumstance, in the name of Jesus. Let the church rise and stand, not in judgment but in mercy.”
When is mercy given? You only give mercy when someone commits something wrong.
Above, Phil Pringle wants the church to show mercy to Kong and not judgment “in this circumstance”. Why would Phil Pringle say this? He has been parading the story that Kong Hee is innocent. Yet now Phil Pringle is publicly praying for the church to rise and stand “in mercy” for Kong in the circumstances he is facing. The church doesn’t need to stand for mercy towards Kong if Kong Hee is innocent. However the church can stand for mercy if Kong Hee is found guilty (if biblical procedures are met).
We hope the Singaporean people consider this “prayer”. Phil Pringle knows Kong Hee and what he has done better than all of us.
THE PRAYER: PRINGLE MALIGNING THE GOVERNMENT AND CHRISTIAN MARTYRS?
It appears as though Phil Pringle realised what he said – and once again attempted to cover up his confession with the next line.
“We stand with our brothers and sisters throughout the world who are under pressure. In the name of Jesus!”
This is just wickedness on Pringle’s behalf. “Pressure”?
Christians have always stood “with our brothers and sisters throughout the world who are under pressure”. Those Christians under “pressure” are the ones who are murdered, crucified, stoned, hanged, torched, massacred, mauled, shot or tortured for their faith. What Kong Hee is going through is nothing of the sort. To use the death of Christian martyrs around the world to further Kong’s cause is just diabolical. While John the Apostle saw in revelations the prostitute get “drunk with the blood of the saints, the blood of the martyrs of Jesus”, Pringle is using “the blood of the martyrs of Jesus” to portray the Singaporean government as unfairly persecuting Kong Hee. The imagery Phil Pringle is using is provocative to say the least, so that Christians around the world have a poor view of the Singaporean government.
THE PRAYER: STANDING WITH WHO?
One thing we would like to ask Phil is, who he is praying for when he says, “We stand with our brothers and sisters throughout the world who are under pressure”. Why isn’t Phil Pringle standing in solidarity with his convicted mentor Yonggi Cho? Or why isn’t Phil Pringle standing with the victims in C3 Asheville who were fleeced by C3 pastor, now convicted criminal Nick Dimitris? Phil Pringle is either standing with the martyrs or Pringle is standing with those who are the persecutors of the Christian faith.
PRINGLE’S VIOLATION OF THE SCRIPTURES
Phil Pringle stated,
“I told our church we’ll leave judgment to the courts, our job is to be merciful.”
What does this mean? Merciful to what? Keeping an alleged criminal within the pastoral office? Last time C3 showed mercy to an alleged criminal within the pastoral office (Nick Dimitris), they didn’t deal with the convicted criminal at all. In fact, Dean Sweetman allowed this man Nick Dimitris to hold the pastoral office until he was thrown into jail:
C3 Asheville Scandal – The Wolf & The Ostrich (Part 8)
And then Dean Sweetman’s son had this to say about his dad:
“You have to understand that Nick Dimitris deceived everyone… including Dad.”
Clearly Dean Sweetman took Pringle’s advice and ignored C3 members, leaders and critics who tried to alert Dean about Dimitris. You would think Phil Pringle would learn from his past mistakes and not repeat them. You would think that Phil Pringle would honour God and His Word above the behaviour of Kong Hee and his “geisha” wife Sun Ho. According to Prophet Phil Pringle, 1 Corinthians 5, Titus and 1-2 Timothy is not applicable to this circumstance.
KONG HEE USING DISHONESTY, PSYCHOLOGICAL MANIPULATION & PRINGLE’S PAPACY
Kong said,
“Tonight we’re not trying to “psych” ourselves to praise God, we’re not trying to “psych” down the blessing! So wait, wait, wait, wait – so when I count to 3, I want you to clap the way the angels must have clapped when Jesus rose from the dead.
I want you to shout the way the angels must have shouted when Jesus rose from the dead.”
Why would Kong Hee think people came to Presence Conference that night to psych themselves up? Why is Kong Hee trying to promote the notion that people shouldn’t “psych” themselves up when he deliberately is trying to “psych” people up before his session? It should be obvious to discerning individuals that Kong Hee lead the way in “psyching” people up before his session so people could swallow his stories without questioning them. What’s worse is that Kong thought he could “psych” the crowds up to the point where they were could be as celebrant as all of heavens angels celebrating “when Jesus rose from the dead”. This is simply… creepy. Why would a so-called “pastor” say this?
With some analysis, we could conclude this is a psychological issue on Kong’s behalf – a man who sees Pringle as some form of infallable Messiah-like figure like the pope. (Go through our archives to read how Kong Hee elevates Pringle to unhealthy positions). Pringle is Kong Hee’s Messiah-like deliverer. Consider what Kong said previously,
“I saw the name list so I’m here for the last few years. I’m not invited next year so I feel kind of sad but that’s OK, that’s OK. Ah, tonight could you just one more time, I don’t know when I’m gonna come back, if I’m gonna come back. But I believe I will because deliverance comes from the Lord, amen?”
So who can deliver Kong Hee from the Singaporean authorities? Who can raise Kong Hee up from his figurative “pit”? Who can show mercy and favour on him? Thanks be to “god” through Phil Pringle his lord?
Deliverance truly did come from his lord Phil Pringle, who indeed affirmed the crowds that Kong Hee will be speaking at Presence Conference 2015. The heavenly resurrection shout of all the people at Presence Conference 2014 worked, (that is unless the Singaporean authorities have the final say over these two spiritual frauds).
KONG’S INTERESTING OBSERVATION
“Do you know the last 4 years, the last 47 months, Ps Phil has been to City Harvest Church 34 times? That means it’s once every 5 weeks, now that is the commitment of the friendship, our 22 year friendship. “
It has been alleged by CHC attendees in Singapore that Pringle is paid around about $100,000 each time he speaks at City Harvest Church? Can anyone else verify this? Is that amount actually in Singaporean dollars? This would be fascinating considering that both Phil Pringle and C3 announced many years ago that they do not take a salary from church. So how did Phil Pringle earn money to purchase a $3.4 million house? (We were informed that the house was sold for $3.4 million. Clarification would be greatly appreciated if this figure is not accurate.)
If this was the price of the house, we couldn’t help but notice what Kong said. If Pringle travelled 34 times to Singapore and indeed received a $100k? pay check each visit, that’s $3.4 million right there.
KONG – SINGAPORE’S MOSES
“And when I’m in a tough spot – between the rock and a hard place, Phil Pringle is there, once every 5 weeks, to lift up my hands, help me pastor the church.”
Kong Hee is using “cult speak”. While normal people will miss what Kong Hee is saying above, Kong is subtly implanting the idea in the listener’s mind that he is an infallible prophet like Moses. Once again, this is another dig at the (Amalek) Singaporean authorities:
“Whenever [Kong Hee] held up his hand, [CHC] prevailed, and whenever he lowered his hand, [Singaporean authorities] prevailed. But [Kong’s] hands grew weary, so they took a stone and put it under him, and he sat on it, while [Pringle] and [A.R Bernard] up [Kong’s] hands, one on one side, and the other on the other side. So his hands were steady until the going down of the sun. And [Kong Hee] overwhelmed [the Singaporean authorities] with the sword.” Exodus 17:11-13
Kong Hee and Phil Pringle have used this technique a numerous times against the Singaporean authorities and it is simply unethical and un-Christian behaviour for both of them to operate like this. This only comes to demonstrate that these men are “impastors”.
KONG’S IMPORTANT ACKNOWLEDGEMENT
“You know I got text messages from all around Asia, China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Malaysia – all watching right now. I know my church, they’re all watching the service right now. So on behalf of churches, thank you so much, one more time Ps Phil, Ps Chris (more clapping).”
This is a VERY important acknowledgment to Pastor Phil. And this is a VERY important acknowledgement Kong gave to his Singapore church and his CHC churches around Asia. We suspect that he’s acknowledged all these CHC church members to tune in for one very important reason: to give money to financially support Kong Hee’s legal defense. We will see why this acknowledgement is important in two article’s time in what actually takes place after Kong Hee’s sermon.
VIDEO
TRANSCRIPT
(Phil Pringle) Well, I would like us all to stand up now if we could – ah –
we’re going to welcome our speaker for the evening – ah – and before we do I
want us to spend a few moments in just praying. I don’t want to – ah – take
too much time – ah – but I, you know, singing -ah – another worship song
right now. We’d normally do that but I want us to have some time at the end
of the evening to actually do that.
We aim to finish -ah – by 9:30 each evening, mostly so that the children are
looked after and – ah – the parents of kids are catered for and -uh – it’s
important we do that.
But you know as we are standing here, I know that the power and the presence
of almighty God is going to come in here, touch our lives in this incredible
atmosphere Israel has prepared with leading us in our worship. Where God can
come and touch each one of us here tonight.
Can you close your eyes? Just reach out to the Lord, and to the back now,
and all round this auditorium, I’d like you to lift up your voice in some
level, and let’s just pray for one minute here to prepare our hearts and
open our soul for God to touch our lives, in Jesus’ mighty name.
“Heavenly Father tonight we believe God that right here in this house you
can touch our lives, touch our hearts. Pour out your Spirit, touch every
life Lord, in this building.”
You may have never done this before but I’m urging you, every single person,
to unfold your arms, close your eyes, reach out to heaven, and ask Him to
speak to YOU here this evening in Jesus’ mighty name!!
“Father, by your power, by your Spirit, touch each person here.”
Pray for the person on your right hand without touching them or things like
that. Pray for the person on your left and believe God will reach into each
heart here tonight.
“Power, life-transforming power, in Jesus’ mighty name. Father, we believe
God, that nothing less than the miraculous will happen in people’s hearts
and lives here this evening in Jesus. And everybody said: amen!”
Give the Lord a great clap offering. I want you to stay standing as we
welcome Ps Kong hee to the stage tonight, amen?
(Phil Pringle continues) I want to thank you all for standing with this man
of God. He’s facing one of the toughest times I’ve ever known anybody to
face over the last four years. Recently his lawyers submitted a case to the
judge to consider where he would dismiss all charges. That’s two weeks ago,
there’s another two weeks to go. On May 5 he will come back with a decision,
11 days. And – ah – so we need to believe God and pray together, that – it
seems like an impossible circumstance, not even the lawyers are that
positive about the outcome. However they must be feeling somewhat positive
to actually even attempt that – ah – all charges be dropped, in Jesus’
mighty name. Let’s believe God right now!!
“Father! The power of God comes upon this circumstance, in the name of
Jesus. Let the church rise and stand, not in judgment but in mercy. We stand
with our brothers and sisters throughout the world who are under pressure.
In the name of Jesus!”
I told our church we’ll leave judgment to the courts, our job is to be
merciful. Brothers and sisters standing together no matter what pressure
they are facing, no matter what cause we think it is. Once again welcome Ps
Kong Hee, one of the pastors of the greatest church, one of the greatest
churches in the world. God bless you.
(Kong Hee) “Woooooh”, come on! Somebody shout “wooooooooooh”, hallelujah!
Now just remain standing for a moment. You know, you guys have been clapping
and praising. You’ve been jumping and shouting. Tonight? Just one more time!
I saw the name list so I’m here for the last few years. I’m not invited next
year so I feel kind of sad but that’s OK, that’s OK. Ah, tonight could you
just one more time, I don’t know when I’m gonna come back, if I’m gonna
come back. But I believe I will because deliverance comes from the Lord,
amen? Yeah, but just hold on, when I count to 3, the bible says “clap your
hands all you people, shout to God with a voice of triumph”. Tonight we’re
not trying to “psych” ourselves to praise God, we’re not trying to “psych”
down the blessing!
How many know 2000 years ago the blessing’s been won on the cross of
Calvary, amen? So wait, wait, wait, wait – so when I count to 3, I want you
to clap the way the angels must have clapped when Jesus rose from the dead.
I want you to shout the way the angels must have shouted when Jesus rose
from the dead.
Let’s lift up the entire roof tonight! Are you ready? On the
count of 3….1-2-3!! Clap your hands everybody. Shout to God with a voice
of triumph! Hallelujah, hallelujah, hallelujah. Come on, give Him praise,
give Him praise, give Him praise. Jesus!!! (yelling)
Oh, hallelujah, give the Lord a big clap one more time, hallelujah.
“Woooooooooooh”!! Amen, amen.
Before you’re seated, turn to somebody on your left and right, look at them
eyeball to eyeball and say “You’re gonna like the Chinese boy!” Come on,
just tell them that – “You’re gonna like the Chinese boy!”
“Woooooh”!! Amen.
Ps Phil, Ps Chris, you guys, just been amazing. How many of you appreciate
our great host Phil Pringle, Chris Pringle? Let’s give Ps Phil and Ps Chris
a big clap! Hallelujah. Thank you for your friendship, your love. Do you
know the last 4 years, the last 47 months, Ps Phil has been to City Harvest
Church 34 times? That means it’s once every 5 weeks, now that is the
commitment of the friendship, our 22 year friendship. And when I’m in a
tough spot – between the rock and a hard place, Phil Pringle is there, once
every 5 weeks, to lift up my hands, help me pastor the church.
Let’s give Ps Phil, Ps Chris a big clap offering one more time, thank you
pastor.
You know I got text messages from all around Asia, China, Hong Kong, Taiwan,
Malaysia – all watching right now. I know my church, they’re all watching
the service right now. So on behalf of churches, thank you so much, one more
time Ps Phil, Ps Chris (more clapping).
Source: youtube=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fV1rOQgOTkI
C3 Church Watch 
Dear oh dear oh dear.
Either Phil knows nothing about the Kong case and honestly believes he has no case to answer, or he’s that salesman who’s about to lose the sale and throws in all the last minute lines….”I’ve got a family to feed….”, “I know you’re 99.9% certain….”
It’s embarrassing and the more Phil pushes, the more it’s all gonna come crumbling down if Kong is convicted. Oh I love the change in language.
Have you ever considered that Phil actually does believe that Kong is innocent?
Or that if he did the wrong thing it was a mistake and not something intentionally evil that would disqualify him from ministry?
Disclaimer: I would not support a “crossover project”, and do not tithe to a mega church, neither do I give offerings to similar ministries. But, I do know that many people make mistakes with tax and financial matters while having good intentions.
And their aren’t many people I would wish to go to jail. Some of you seem to relish the thought of a minister going to jail. It’s surprising to me.
Why should pastors be viewed differently when they break the law. When a minister in the government is jailed for misuse of public funds or other crimes , it is alright to be glad that justice has been served. If a pastor is jailed for misused of church funds or other crimes , it is not right to think the same? No one relish anyone going to jail, not just pastors which we think about. Did you think the elders who brought the case against Yonggi Cho relished that he was found guilty. Of course not, they met with him first and asked that he repents but he chose to answer his case in court. We don’t relish pastors going to jail but we will certainly rejoice to see their true repentance and renouncement of false wealth and health prosperity gospel and cesae robbing the saints. But sadly they all dig in for battle instead of repentance. The humble pie is too demeaning for the celebrity pastors. They prefer to be ‘unjustly’ jailed and come out a ‘hero’ but only to the brain washed followers.
Q – I know phil is deceived and self deluded but he’s not that stupid to think kong is innocent. He just wants Christianity done his way, cause then he gets to be the king.
Churchwatcher, do the prosecution lawyers know about this? Have you considered contacting them with all this information?
The chief prosecutor Ms Chionh.
http://app.lsc.gov.sg/data/AR/2011/html/6-economic-crimes-governance.html
Perhaps you should contact them yourself? Your coverage clearly shows Hee and Pringle are using very shonky tactics to get funds to pay for his trial from gullible listeners. Legal perhaps but very immoral!!!!
You must have a special level of hatred for someone to suggest contacted officials in another country about things said in a church.
You call it hatred, I call it a desire for justice.
1. How many people would be giving so much of their own hard-earned money if they knew what was really going on?
2. Would Pringle still be able to enter Singapore if authorities knew about what was being said by him about the government etc.?
People have to work so hard these days to cover living costs – why should people be expected to pay Hee’s lawyers’ bills as well?
Q – Just letting you know it wasn’t a church, it was a conference venue in the city centre, streamed live world-wide and in particular, Singapore. But if you want to call it a “church” because the attendees are believers, why did they do altar calls for salvation at every session? Great way to represent Christianity, fleecing the people attending (those “unsaved” too apparently) to pay for a man’s legal fees, in light of the circumstances surrounding the trial. And the fact that a week later they were all found to have a case to answer, despite Phil Pringle’s declaration of “no case to answer”.
You don’t know what you are talking. If you want to know real hate, check out what the leaders of City Harvest did to one Mr Poon some years back when he first raised the concern about church funds being wrongly used. Kong and the leaders gave him a real love letter to withdraw his remarks and apologise publicly by publishing the apology by way of advertisement in a local paper or be sued. Now the truth is out. So much for your version of love. Your kind of love is one that worship the pastors like gods and emperors and therefore above the laws but not for ordinary folks like us who should just stay silent, endure the wrongs and don’t report on your pastors if they are responsible for sexual abuses and misuse of funds etc. because it’s is not christian love.Just sweep them under your carpet of love. It is your kind of love that got Yonggi Cho into what he is now and what Kong is facing today.
No Q – not a hatred for people, but a hatred of evil.
The Singapore AG chambers has demanded pastor Tan of City Harvest to withdraw and apologise for 2 contemptuous tweets against the Singapore justice system. Phil and Kong better be careful with what they say in Australia.
“He’s facing one of the toughest times I’ve ever known anybody to
face over the last four years”
Right, life must be hard in that Sentosa Cove penthouse…
KH and his wife managed to live a life of extreme luxury throughout preying on vulnerable people, with his stories of “such and such downsized their apartment to give to the building fund”. But they got careless and started to believe their own hype, his wife thinking she could be the next Beyonce at age 40 being the clearest manifestation of that.
KH will never be poor, even if convicted he’ll just do a Swaggart and declare he’s back and has seen the error of his ways. Pringle will then undoubtedly profess that the Lord has forgiven him. I feel no pity for him, only for those in his congregation who he took for a very expensive ride.
@Thinker. Nobody was forced to give. If I went to that conference and didn’t feel that it was right to give money for legal expenses I wouldn’t have.
Your questions.
1. I have no idea. Who knows what is really going on. This case has gone on for a long time and still isn’t over. But anyone in Australia who wants to be informed about the situation can look on the internet. Has Pringle forbidden people from researching the case?
2. I don’t know. I don’t think he has said anything that would see him unable to go to Singapore. If a church leader prayed for OJ Simpson at a conference, would that get them barred from entering the US while a trial was going on? I don’t know. I’m not a legal expert – esp not re Singapore. It is alleged here that someone was warned over tweets in Singapore. They were warned – not put in jail. But, I don’t know. Ask an international lawyer.
And finally like I said, Christians don’t have to give to every appeal for money from the pulpit. There are appeals for offerings in many churches for different things.
“Has Pringle forbidden people from researching the case?” Yes, though we wouldn’t use the word “forbidden”. He has told his church not to visit sites that discuss the matter. Which of course produces the opposite effect – you would think he would have a better understanding of human nature?
I didn’t know that was the case.
Q – We are not concerned about you who did not give to Kong’s defence funds. We are concerned about many who were deceived because the truth was held back from them. Yes, they don’t have to give but tell them a sob story about some unjust thing happening to a godly pastor , then make an appeal and see the ‘love’ offering flow in.
Q- if you ever bothered about truth, you would check out before saying things. The writer of the tweets were not warned but a demand was made for him to withdraw and apologise for what he wrote. They were not casual remarks but scandalous ones against the courts. Please check things out yourself first.
Set Free – there will be an article about the story in a day or two.
I stand corrected.
Q: thanks for your response.
“Nobody was forced to give.” Technically I am sure you are correct. However having seen footage of C3’s emotionally charged services no-one but the most hard-hearted, cynical person (who did not have prior knowledge of C3’s strategies) would not feel “led” to give if they were in the position to do so.
No one really will know if funds would dry up or not if the whole truth came out until it happens. I would expect they might drop considerably as well as church attendance figures. Some extremely forgiving and merciful people might still choose to support Hee if he expressed and *demonstrated* genuine repentance. Although some might view that as extremely irrational or naïve those followers would at least be doing that with their full consent.
Apparently Singapore has some fairly strict censorship and defamation laws, resulting in some foreign news outlets being sued. http://www.internations.org/singapore-expats/guide/16087-safety-security/limitations-of-civil-freedoms-in-singapore-16091
http://kellywarnerlaw.com/singapore-defamation-laws/
“no-one but the most hard-hearted, cynical person (who did not have prior knowledge of C3′s strategies) would not feel “led” to give if they were in the position to do so.”
I don’t relate to that. Perhaps I am more cynical than most.
I was thinking more of the committed C3 follower than a first-timer or occasional attendee.
You must be, Q.
Okay, guys here is some homework for you. Probably fun homework. I’m just trying to get to the facts in all of this.
Can you answer the following – relevant to many of the articles posted here.
1. Was Ronald Poon ACTUALLY forced to apologise via newspapers in Singapore back in 2003? Was he actually threatened with legal action? And why did he apologise if he wasn’t wrong – if he was a man of integrity.
2. Is it ACTUALLY true that Pringle gets 100k for preaching in Kong’s church? Is there proof of this or is it just a rumor?
3. Is it true that Yonggi Cho got a retirement package of 18 million US dollars?
I see lots of allegations written and lots of blogs quoting other blogs. I’m not interested in whether churches have coffee or what kind of suits people wear. I AM interested in truth. Facts. I’m not interested in whether a Pastor is a calvinist or not or in the woman pastor debate. But I wouldn’t give offerings to a church that pays a man 18 mill for retiring. Nor would I be part of a church that gives such lavish stipends to people for preaching.
There are plenty of facts surrounding the Ronald Poon case and his eventual vindication – you want us to do the research for you? It’s available. It took almost 10 years after Ronald Poon questioned CHC’s integrity before the authorities intervened.
“He dared to question City harvest Church”
http://news.asiaone.com/News/Latest+News/Singapore/Story/A1Story20120628-356025.html
AsiaOne Thursday, Jun 28, 2012 “In 2003, he had to make a public apology after questioning whether City Harvest Church used church funds for Ho Yeow Sun’s music career. Mr Roland Poon had been going to City Harvest for a few years when he began to feel uncomfortable with some of the church’s practices, said a report in The Straits Times today. Then a businessman, he had donated money towards the City Harvest church building at Jurong West. A close family friend of Mr Poon’s who asked to remain anonymous told The Straits Times that Mr Poon was uneasy with the way the church leaders used the church service to promote Ho Yeow Sun’s music. Mr Poon also asked the church leadership how church funds were being used. When Mr Poon’s questions to the church were not answered, he wrote to The Straits Times, saying it was not ethical to mix secular matters and religion – he added that he was “encouraged” to buy Ho’s music, and alleged that church funds were used to finance Ho’s publicity campaigns. Mr Poon’s friend also said the church would sue Mr Poon if he had no evidence to back up his allegations. Traumatised, he retracted his statements and issued apologies in five publications while the church issued its own reply to his allegations. Mr Poon left City Harvest Church after the matter concluded and now worships in another church.”
@Churchwatcher. I’ve read that. I’m asking if here is any other evidence that Ronald Poon was threatened with legal action. (besides an “anonymous close family friend”.”
I tend to believe this story. But, given that Ronald Poon went to all the trouble to make the apology and came back to the church and claims to have done so on the advice of a trusted church leader from another country, I would like to see more proof.
If I were Ronald Poon I would have stuck to my guns. And now I’d be suing Kong Hee.
But….if Ronald Poon was a Christian, why did he retract his statement. That makes him a liar. So he either lied first when he went to the media, or he lied later when he apologised. Which is it?
Maybe you don’t know much about research? Have you done much work in higher education? Saying that an anonymous family friend said something doesn’t mean it’s true.
Perhaps if you can find some statements that Ronald Poon has made PERSONALLY after he published the apologies, it would be helpful.
Maybe i just have higher levels of cynicism than some of you? Of maybe I’ve spent more time in higher education?
“you want us to do the research for you? ”
Yes!!! You guys spend your lives on a website attacking churches you aren’t even associated with. You should be expert researchers!
I found what you posted in a few minutes. I want some more. Like statements from Ronald Poon. – not just what some anonymous guy said to a newspaper.
So, has Ronald Poon publicly recanted his apology, and said he was lying and covering up for Kong Hee? If not, why not?
@Q : ” Of maybe I’ve spent more time in higher education?”.
Do you mean ‘OR i have…? dear oh dear.
Q – since when did we become employed as your research assistant to do your bidding. Go do your own homework .Who knows you might find some paint to whitewash the tombs since you have so much ‘loving feeling’. For start try finding information and evidence to show that Yonggi Cho was slandered, betrayed and framed. Then try helping Kong Hee.
@setfree. I’ve spent hours today and yesterday reading about CHC. And Yonggi Cho. I don’t believe that Cho was slandered, betrayed or framed. I think he made a very bad mistake in approving the sale of stock to his son, and for giving him a position of responsibility in the first place join by his character and past misdeeds.
I’m asking if anyone has any evidence of the 100k figure Pringle gets – I don’t base my opinions on what someone on the internet says they heard. (otherwise I’d be convince the world trade centre was knocked down by Bush).
I’m doing my homework. I thought since the people here spend so much time each day dredging up dirt on anyone associated with Pringle that you guys would be the go-to guys and have the links at your fingertips.
No need to get aggressive. You should have been set free from all that…..
“whitewash tombs” – biblical sarcasm at it’s best! lol
Not my place to help Kong Hee. I’m not a fan of his. I’d like to know if there is proof that he threatened Ronald Poon with a law suit, why Ronald Poon apologised as a Christian when he was such a courageous ethical man, whether anyone can verify that Pringle gets 100k singapore dollars every time he preaches at CHC, and also whether anyone can verify Cho’s 18m retirement package. So far I got two copy and pastes that I’ve already read.
So, with all due respect and I’ll put this as kindly as I can…..I don’t think you guys should put this page down on your resume if you ever apply for a job as research assistants.
Theres a difference in job description between “Anonymous Adhoc Copyandpaste Blog Commentator” and Research Assistant.
If it’s true that Pringle got 100,000 Singapore dollars for each of his over 30 visits to Singapore then people should be aware of that. Also, if Cho really did get 18 million as a retirement package than it’s worth knowing – because many people are defending him as a man who lives simply.
Believe it or not, I share many of your concerns. Drop the attacking of everything these guys do – right down to coffee and suits, keep your criticisms off their belief in tithes, women pastors and the Message, and more people will listen to you.
And be careful to make your research more conclusive.
And maybe harden up a little and don’t act like cry babies when someone asks for verification.
@ q : “keep your criticisms off their belief in tithes, women pastors and the Message”.
Sorry ‘q’…the Holy Bible doesn’t agree with that.
Q: “So, with all due respect and I’ll put this as kindly as I can…..I don’t think you guys should put this page down on your resume if you ever apply for a job as research assistants.”
Expecting some unpaid person with no access to that foreign church’s finances to do a quick Google search to provide a preacher’s last payslip for a guest trip overseas is as unrealistic as a student trying -via Google – to access information resources from another university’s library’s online database for FREE.
That ain’t gonna ever happen unless that pay-packet is shown in an online news report, but mere journalists’ reports don’t count in your eyes as evidence do they?
Wow, thinker. You mean you trust journalist’s reports as evidence? Which ones? Murdoch press? Fairfax? CNN? Fox? Sky? Bloggers? Wikipedia? NYT? BBC! SBS!!!! ABC!!!!?
Google is useful and a great boon is many ways, but trust and evidence are big words. Especially for a thinker.
@thethruth
“Do you mean ‘OR i have…? dear oh dear.”
Listen pal, you are being infantile. Did I offend you and you are resorting to being a complete fool?? So now you will try to score points because of a typo of one letter?
Okay. Shall I bash back? lol
I meant “or”. Anyone with any sense would realise that. But, do you know much about the old saying about glass houses?
You said “dear oh dear”. Perhaps you’d like to correct the punctuation on that.
Come on princess. Don’t be silly and embarrass yourself. A person who tries to be clever attacking someone over a type leaves himself wide open with “dear oh dear.”
Let’s do a deal. I’ll overlook your lack of punctuation skill, and you overlook posts written on an iPhone.
dear oh dear ……..Indeed!
Let’s get back to the issues.
delancey, I tend to trust official news sources more than personal blogs* because qualified journalists provide the material. I also form my opinions using multiple news sources of different political persuasions. I hope you do the same.
* blogs that make concrete claims but then don’t even provide one single reference with academic/ professional journalism credentials
For other readers’ sakes I did the search re Yonggi Cho’s retirement package. http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/611326.html
Approx. 1/2 way down:
….The most explosive part of the allegations is the sheer amount of money supposedly received by David Yonggi Cho. The elders claim he received a severance payment of 20 billion won (US$18.7 million) when he stepped down as head pastor in 2008 – and that even that was decided without their knowledge or any voting by major church decision-making bodies. They also said no information was available on the whereabouts of 12 billion won (US$11.2 million) a year paid between 2004 and 2008 – 60 billion won in total – for “special missionary expenses.”
You’ve got more chances of being hit by lightning than finding Pringle’s preaching payslip via Google. Finding the person who’s in charge of finances of the church visited and contacting them directly might give slightly better odds. I doubt anyone would do that for an outsider under current circumstances unless expected to by Law.
“but mere journalists’ reports don’t count in your eyes as evidence do they?”
No they don’t. It would depend on the journalist. Do you know many journalists?
And as I said, the journalist didn’t say anything about Cho’s retirement package. The journalists reported someone saying what it was. There is a big difference.
Again, I’m not saying the amount is wrong. I’m asking whether you have anything more than one journalists REPORTING that one elder SAID something.
If you’d like a list of all the mistakes and errors and half-truths journalists have made over the years…..we could be here for a long time.
So, no. I don’t base my life on a journalists report.
Many people have bad experiences with journalists too. I know I’ve been asked for a comment only to be told that the journalists can’t use it because “her boss is looking for a different angle”.
But in case you are just young and naive, I’ll give you some advice. Don’t believe everything you hear in the news. Check around.
“Sorry ‘q’…the Holy Bible doesn’t agree with that.”
Just trying to help. SO what church do you go to Thinker?
“to do a quick Google search to provide a preacher’s last payslip for a guest trip overseas is as unrealistic as….”
lol I never suggested that. I find it strange that you even thought of that. Have you done much study of anything in your life?
I go to an IFB- Independent Fundamentalist Baptist church. In a small regional area it is the most biblical church available. Some doctrines they are way more insistent that everyone *must* believe to be a church member e.g. premillenialism than I believe is necessary (I agree, but don’t agree that’s essential) but their love of the Gospel is extremely refreshing.
Q, I have two degrees, one was a postgraduate that involved training re library and information resources at Victoria’s top health research hospital. There I saw all the advanced cataloging and websites in use and observed how health professionals were trained to access information from hard-to-access subscription-only health websites (that sometimes cost a fortune to access) and medical journals/ textbooks.
Now I am retired I have used that training to assist young Christians online in accessing reliable, informative AND reputable apologetics material, plus defending the Christian faith against atheists, pagans, charismaniacs and “stirrers”. What about you?
That’s cool. But you can honestly say that with all your research experience you think it was strange for me to ask if anyone had anymore than a copy and paste of one person’s comment about Pringle’s 100k stipend for each of 30 visits?
Really? That doesn’t make any sense. I asked for any other evidence, and you think that’s strange? I’ve been in charismatic churches for decades and I’ve heard lots of things. Yes, I heard someone report that they drilled down in Russia and put a microphone down and heard the screams from hell. And I heard several preachers say it. I wanted more proof. I never said it wasn’t true.
I am no stirrer. You have completely misunderstood.
It’s one thing to access reliable, informative, apologetics material. That’s great. There’s a lot of that out there. There’s lots of resources about church history. But I repeat, there is not a lot on the internet saying that Cho’s retirement package was 18 million. All I asked for was another source – and I was told by people here that if a journalist reported it, then that should be enough.
If you are saying that I am strange for not asking for further verification about those two figures then I don’t care how many degrees you have.
It is not stirring to ask for more information. If I had more than one journalist report that Cho got 18 million on retirement, I want to use that when I talk to people who say that he hardly has any money!
If you read all of my posts, you would by now realise that I probably agree with a lot of what you say. But, to me verification of facts is important. Otherwise I’d be believing that Bush planted bombs in the WTC. You used the word “charismaniac”. Some would find that offensive. But actually, I have a lot of problems with what is going on in the charismatic world. But when it comes to actual figures, i think they should be verified.
Maybe they don’t worry about facts in Victoria? Or maybe things have changed since you retired, I don’t know. But if someone said. “the doctor over in Geelong spent 200k of cancer research money on prostitutes, I want that to be verified.
If you really did what you say you did, you would understand that.
In other words,
you pasted this which I already read.
“The most explosive part of the allegations is the sheer amount of money supposedly received by David Yonggi Cho. The elders claim he received a severance payment of 20 billion won (US$18.7 million) when he stepped down as head pastor in 2008 – and that even that was decided without their knowledge or any voting by major church decision-making bodies. They also said no information was available on the whereabouts of 12 billion won (US$11.2 million) a year paid between 2004 and 2008 – 60 billion won in total – for “special missionary expenses.””
I think that’s worth confirming. Don’t you? I’m not saying it’s sin or evil. But I am saying that when Christians comment about Cho and his church, these facts if proven are worth knowing about.
As I said, given Elders claim this, I think it’s probably true. But, I want a little more than that. And no, I don’t expect to see a copy of the bank deposit.
Being attacked for asking for that is totally bewildering. Especially from a man with two degrees one of which is post-grad.
Then again, if you’ve already retired you probably went through when the competition to get into uni wasn’t so hard – esp for people with money.
But, I am in awe of your “higher education”. No need to be a “stirrer” though.
And, if you have any more sources for the 18 million amount, let me know. I never said the amount was a lie, I really want to know. Believe it or not on other websites I have argued with people who claimed that Cho lived very very modestly and had no money. But I don’t have figures. You get it? No?
Maybe I need to come up with an AFL analogy…..
Victorians…
Probably available in court documents. Perhaps we can do some research as the trial is now over but in the meantime, the 30 elders were part of a group obviously trusted by Cho or they wouldn’t have been elders in the first place.
“The elders made public a report from an investigation into three alleged improprieties by Cho made by a special investigation committee and ethics committee formed within the church last year.”
It appears they (the elders) initially tried to deal biblically with this issue ‘in house’
http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/611326.html
Q, that was a very quick search, like I said it was for the benefit of other readers. People are generally willing to trust newspapers for information. If news sources are unreliable, their reputation will be damaged and will lose readers and income.
Agree with Churchwatcher about court documents.
PS. Am QLDer again, and had to retire prematurely (Gen X, health issues). Not a cashed-up baby boomer unfortunately.
@Churchwatcher.
“Probably available in court documents. ”
Agreed. The 18 miilion figure for retirement would not be a crime, but it was probably presented somehow when accounts were examined.
“Perhaps we can do some research as the trial is now over”
Yes, I think it’s worth looking into.
“but in the meantime, the 30 elders were part of a group obviously trusted by Cho or they wouldn’t have been elders in the first place.”
That’s a good point. And as I have stated on other websites, it would be a huge thing for Elders to come out against the Senior Pastor in the Korean charismatic church culture – but especially in Cho’s church. There are probably thousands of elders, but the one who claims to have warned Cho sounds like he was a senior person. (Korea and Cho’s church is extremely hierarchical in a way that surprises most western Christians)
“The elders made public a report from an investigation into three alleged improprieties by Cho made by a special investigation committee and ethics committee formed within the church last year.”
I’d like to see the report and how it was received. There were huge numbers cited. Obviously the vast majority of elders sided with Cho, though that’s not surprising.
It appears they (the elders) initially tried to deal biblically with this issue ‘in house’
Yes it does. (Going by what those elders claim) And it’s a great example of how sometimes Pastors should listen to their elders.
http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/611326.html
The contents of this article deserve attention.
(Now, does that sound like I am a Cho/Pringle?Kong worshipper/admirer?)
@Thinker. Good move back to QLD. Sorry about the health issues. (sincerely)
I know what you are saying about newspapers. But there is a difference between a newspaper stating a fact and a newspaper reporting what someone SAID.
I have no problem with Time magazine saying that Mr X says that he was abducted by an alien.
As something that isn’t relevant biblically, but just as an aside, one problem especially in Asia is that in many countries the heads of religious organisations are EXTREMELY wealthy, and sons inherit the organisation. That can be a tempting thing for Pastors of large churches. Ironically, in some countries nobody bats an eyelid at Buddhist priests driving BMWs, and marrying a priest’s son (especially of a famous temple) is a great move for women. So, if you start your own religion, being wealthy and benefiting financially are seen as normal.
Doesn’t make it right, and the Elder made the point that Christians are different from cults. But just be aware that the culture is different.
People in Asia think nothing of going to temples and shrines to pray for promotions, university exams, rich husbands, business success etc. Even to win the lotto.
Ok – as we told Gordy, all comments to now stay on topic.
Q:
“…and sons inherit the organisation. That can be a tempting thing for Pastors of large churches.”
DON’T start me on nepotism.
It happens here and is my greatest dislike in churches today.
Back to the topic….
That’s a topic that deserves an article all of its own, Squidaloopa!
@Thinker For what it’s worth, I have two degrees and another post-graduate. I won’t get much more specific than that because I want to remain anonymous.
None of the study I did helped me get better at typing though. Or at winning friends and influencing people..
And….to quote a book title that is dear to everyone’s hearts here. .. “I need more money”.
🙂
@thinker. I’ve read that. I’m asking if anyone has proof of that. It seems credible to me, but I’d like some proof. More than an allegation.
Unfortunately for the proof it sounds like you want i.e. beyond all doubt you would have to see Yonggi Cho’s own bank balance and related paperwork with your own eyes. A bit impossible to do under the circumstances.
You have to decide whether you are willing to trust that country’s news service or not.
That country’s news service didn’t report that Cho received that amount. It reported that one elder claimed that he did. There’s a big difference.
I have no reason to believe that the man was lying. But, I’d like to see it from more than one source. I’ve heard a lot of things said by a lot of people. I’ve been in pentecostal churches for 30 years. I’ve heard a lot of things said – good and bad that ended up not being true.
You here are cynical about Cho and Pringle. I’m cyclical about just about everything.
Been there and done that!
@ ‘q’: ” I’m cyclical about just about everything”.
Yes indeed, VERY ‘cyclical’. round and round?
Sorry, probably typed that on an iPhone. A spelling mistake. Stone me.
“Finding the person who’s in charge of finances of the church visited and contacting them directly might give slightly better odds. I doubt anyone would do that for an outsider under current circumstances unless expected to by Law.”
Then until you have more proof it might be wiser to not accept everything that a friend of a friend said.
People said lots of stuff about Billy Graham back in the day when everyone wanted to see he was just trying to rake in money through circus tent evangelism.
Maybe you’re not old enough to remember. But he was the guy everyone hated once upon a time.
“A friend of a friend”? – it was a serious journalist’s report. If that is not enough to satisfy you then like Set Free says you’ll only be satisfied by seeing the report yourself.
You’ll probably have to contact a Korean private detective, lawyer or any other professional permitted to access that church’s financial records.
Perhaps you will not believe the JFK shooting until you speak to Lee Harvey Oswald? Your logic is faulty.
Now you are being completely ludicrous. I repeat. You have given one journalist saying that one elder gave that figure. I’m not even saying I don’t believe it. Just wanting to know if there is anything more than that. And your Oswald analogy is not only faulty…it’s just lame!
Q- on Billy Graham, don’t try to pull a fast one. Billy Graham easily counter every money allegation by his accountability and transparency. His organisation regularly and voluntarily make their accounts public without being asked to or need to. He did not respond to allegation with silence, hoping it will go away.. He did not respond by asking for proofs. He proved them wrong by never failing to publicly publish their accounts and open them for examination. I am sure C3 or Hillsong do the same regularly. Right?
……………..sigh
Not trying to pull a fast one. Just saying that Billy Graham was routinely attacked back in the day. And probably some of you would also have been aghast at his salary and travel expenses.
I like Billy Graham. No fast one.
Don’t jump to conclusions that readers automatically accept everything that is presented in the feedback section. Speaking for myself, I always want to see serious evidence to support allegations. Unfortunately I am rarely disappointed…..
Q- to get black and white evidence on the Ronald Poon’s issue , you would have to raid the office of CHC. The paper that made the report is a reputable Singapore paper and has a wide circulation and the report is explicitly and clearly slanderous against CHC. If the damaging and slanderous report was false , then why did a big organisation like CHC not take stern action against the report and paper and let the public know the accurate version of the truth. If CHC was a dead man and cannot defend himself , then it would be an unfair report and then I would consider that you are doing a good deed to speak on the behalf of the dead who cannot defend himself. Otherwise it is akin to whitewashing a tomb, er sorry the smelly issue. Also neither did Ronald Poon refute it as a false report. It is also common knowledge among Christians in Singapore.
@ Q –
“Believe it or not, I share many of your concerns. Drop the attacking of everything these guys do – right down to coffee and suits, keep your criticisms off their belief in tithes, women pastors and the Message, and more people will listen to you.”
If we dropped all of that Q, then we mightn’t have too much to say, but due to the ongoing deceptive nature of Hill$ong, C3 and othersof their ilk, they won’t be changing their views anytime soon, and neither will we.
I say that, because I am sure that the mature, dedicated Christians who pitch in and help to expose false teachers and trouble makers on this blogsite each day,will do all they can to continue in the Truth as taught by Jesus Christ and his apostles.
They will not be swayed by any smarmy, seductive and self righteous babble coming from the mouths of those who hold God’s word in contempt and ridicule His people on a regular basis.
As you can see from “I can spell’s” contribution above, we don’t suffer fools either…
“16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
17And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
18Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.
19Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal,
The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” (2 Tim 2:16 – 19)
Spot on.
“self righteous babble”
…by any chance did you get that phrase from a Steve Taylor song? (The most thought provoking Christian artist ever). Actually it was with his band Chagall Guevara…
Steve Taylor is *EMERGENT. Here he is with emergent >> DONALD MILLER<< of all people! Plus, at the emergent FULLER YOUTH INSTITUTE.
~Andy
“As you can see from “I can spell’s” contribution above, we don’t suffer fools either…”
So, you’re at it too? You think it’s a sign of intelligence to notice typos? Okay. I’ll be more careful with typing on an iPhone.
But if we are all going to be fixing each others typing mistakes it’s going to be a rough ride.
Hi Squidaloopa – no I didn’t get the phrase from a song – it just came to me – a ‘revelation’ from the Holy Spirit…
I think that you guys (Thinker, TheTruth, Annette too…) have done a very good job this week, of fending off the false prophets and their unbiblical and heretical rants.
One thing I notice about them is that their scripture quoting is always out of context, but it is deceptively given in the hope that some will be missled by it, and be lulled into a false sense of trust with them.
Not so the soldiers of Christ who come online and weild the sword of the Spirit!
As for their nasty attacks on all of us, well Jesus said we’d be hated of all men for flollowing him and I believe it. Spewing out hate, under the guise of challenging our beliefs, and then turning nice again, after being nasty, is hypocrisy personified.
Another thing I’ve noticed, is that they never link to any credible material to back up their rants – no testimonies, and no sound doctrine are ever referenced by them. They just hang around lie flies around the hney jar, waiting for an opportunity to pounce on the least little thing – just like the Pharisees did with Jesus.
Useless, out of context scripture quoting will never replace that which is the leading of the Lord, through his word, and in typical form, they have rubbished the smaller, independent churches too.
Those churches may have an association with major evangelical denominations, but the leaders have managed to “divide the word rightly” for themselves, and have successfully used their discerning eye to keep these false prophets and their ilk, out of their churches.
As I said above:
“Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal,
The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, Let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.” (2 Tim 2:19)
Austin said, “Not so the soldiers of Christ who come online and weild the sword of the Spirit!”
What!!!!!!????????????????
Hey Thinker and TheTRUTH… did you see that???????/
Austin typed “weild the sword”
Come on guys!! Remember, you don’t suffer fools gladly.
weild……..???????
Come on Thinker and Truth, the spelling gestapo.
Wow, you know you’ve come to a real dark side of the internet when some web theologians think they are clever for picking up typing errors.
Okay…for the record. I DON’T CARE that Austin used the word “weild”. Most sensible people take it for what it’s worth. Except of course for Austin, Truth and Thinker.
But the silence from the soldiers of Christ was deafening. lol
PS, “in the hope that some will be misled”
Thinker and Truth and Austin ……you didn’t “dear oh dear” over that one either.
Why? Come on tough guy Truthy! Thinky! No sarcastic putdown of Austin? lol
But the serious point is this Austin. You claim to be a soldier of Christ. But you are guilty of slandering and gossiping and speaking evil of Billy Graham, because some guy overheard a conversation.
Please think. Perhaps Billy DID ask how much was in the offering after one crusade in one city in one year of his life. So? Maybe he already knew how many went forward because he already heard, or he saw. Maybe people were telling him that they were in trouble financially. Who knows? Maybe he needed to know. I don’t and you don’t. But, you will publish some slimy anecdote in order to make one of the most well respected ministers of all look bad. So, Austin, you really are a nasty piece of work.
Slander Billy Graham and pick on people for typing mistakes while making your own?
I feel sorry for you mate. You are proud of that?
Sad little man.
Are you actually over the age of fifteen? doesn’t sound like it.
Personally, i think austin put that error in there to get your attention, and it worked beautifully.
On the other hand, reading through your many rants,oh so many, there are NUMEROUS excuses such as:”I don’t remember” or “I can’t recall” and ‘i type really fast”. Ever heard the expression “a bad workman always blames his tools?”
Instead of these juvenile rants and ‘attempting’ to ‘defend the indefensible’ Houston/Pringle gospels, perhaps you could work on your own Spiritual well-being.
As for sarcasm, well if you are presenting your own ‘theories’ that way, i see fit to reply in exactly the same manner.
Thnks again ‘q’. Ever wonder if i mystiped that on purpose?
“I can’t recall ever…………”
wow. My rants? lol
Okay. thetruth. I make lots of typing errors. If you want to accuse me of sloppy typing, I am guilty as charged. I got attacked from about 4 different “discerners” and typed quickly.
Again. I am bad at typing. I’m fast but I make errors, and I don’t really care.
If you like, I will try to be more careful.
And I am over the age of 15. I responded the way i did simply to show how infantile it was for you guys to think you were clever for your “dear oh dears” and typing, when in fact in the very post trying to be clever you were sloppy.
But, if all you guys have is criticisms of typing errors, then that’s kind of sad.
But if you want to make an issue over it, I would pull you guys up all the time.
But…just calm down. It’s really ironic though. People who spend their time criticising other people are remarkably sensitive to even the slightest questioning.
lol
“They just hang around lie flies around the hney jar, waiting for an opportunity to pounce on the least little thing”
rotfl
I was attacked over typos by your fellow “soldiers of Christ”. Man, if I typed “hney jar” like you just did, THETRUTH would have granted himself a PhD for noticing and made some sarcastic remark to appear clever. Sad that he thinks finding a typo makes him look clever. Really.
So….I made the last few comments to make a point. MAKING FUN OF TYPOS is pathetic. But if you want to do it, at least be consistent and beat up Austin too.
For crying out loud. Get a life.
“lie flies around the hney jar”
Thinker? Truthie? No smart comments about the above?
“dear oh dear” ….. Okay, drop the typo attacks girls. I think I’ve made my point.
I don’t ever worry about typos/ spelling errors because:
1. human error. Not everyone has spell-check.
2. they are not *intended* to deceive, mislead, distract, or divert attention from the issue being discussed.
There are way more important issues at hand. On that I agree with you.
Thinker, it was only after ‘q’ had seen fit to inform everyone of his superior education that i had decided to question it.
Sorry thetruth, that comment wasn’t directed at anyone in particular. On plenty of different websites of all varieties grammar/ spelling nazis don’t do themselves favours. I admit I still do have that tendency but now choose to keep that to myself unlike when I was still young.
Those of superior education should prove it via example to the “unwashed masses”, not rely solely on mere claims….
okay, where did I talk about my superior education?
I can’t even remember. Do you have some kind of complex or something?
Don’t really know what you are raving about.
@Q “THETRUTH would have granted himself a PhD for noticing”.
Well thank you very much. I obtained my PHD at the same place your hero Pringle got his….Ebay.
In other news, I know the contention about PP’s Doctorate (I have read the C3CW article re PP, GM and KH)….I also note some people’s observations he is not using “Dr” much anymore.
Can anyone who goes to C3OF or is close to the action advise?
Again…you are totally weirding out. I am not a Pringle fan. Are you on medication or something? lol
“Can anyone who goes to C3OF or is close to the action advise?”
Sources inside C3OF have confirmed that Phil Pringle is no longer referred to as “Dr”, but there is nothing to report beyond that. I personally suspect that Phil has been so embarrassed by this affair that he has let it quietly drop, perhaps to the extent of avoiding discussions even with those in C3’s inner sanctum (an iron-fisted ruler cannot afford to look like a dolt, it just doesn’t do). It’s a safe bet that anyone who is on the teat at C3OF and who values their job would not dare to ever broach the subject with “Apostle” Pringle.
At any rate, we can reasonably infer that Phil has come to the conclusion that touting his “PhD” was damaging his credibility (which, naturally enough, reinforces the view that it was not the genuine article). If Phil’s PhD *were* real, he could, of course, get in touch with anyone who has made assertions to the contrary and ask them to withdraw those assertions, but it doesn’t appear that he has ever done so (perhaps he is just trusting in God to strike the naysayers dead – a fate which he has suggested has befallen his opponents in the past).
In truth, even amongst die-hard C3 fans, there probably wouldn’t be many who would entertain the thought that Phil is an intellectual by any stretch of the imagination, or that he is cut from the sort of cloth that would allow him to succeed in academic pursuits. And of course, Phil has, in the past, affected to despise those individuals who show themselves as genuinely intelligent; this would appear, in the light of his subsequent desire to be a “Doctor”, to have been nothing less than a nasty case of sour grapes. (It’s always rather sad to see a grown man who is not comfortable in his own skin). Another point worth noting is that Kong “I Maintain My Integrity” Hee provided oversight for Phil when he undertook his study – which is strange, because if I were doing a PhD myself, I wouldn’t want my efforts to be associated with someone who had been caught out plagiarising.
If you spent any time listening to Presence 2014/2013 Conferences, you would have heard both Kong Hee and Christine Pringle refer to Phil Pringle as ‘Dr’. Old habits die hard. Live-streamed around the globe too.
“[…] you would have heard both Kong Hee and Christine Pringle refer to Phil Pringle as ‘Dr’.”
Thanks for the update, CW.
I’m not surprised at Kong doing that (since he’s the same bloke who used to think that his talentless middle-aged wife was a pop star), but I wouldn’t have expected that Christine Pringle would have done so (notwithstanding the fact that she doesn’t always come across as the sharpest tool in the shed).
Maybe they are prepared to roll out the fake doctorate for special occasions such as the “Presence” conference(?)
“Sources inside C3OF have confirmed that Phil Pringle is no longer referred to as “Dr”, but there is nothing to report beyond that.”
Grrrrrrrrrr!! I attended c3 college a looong time ago and we head the staff tell us that we needed to call Phil Pringle “Dr Phil Pringle” so church members and visitors could see him in a better light and so I did.
Now I hear this and dig this info up, http://signposts02.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/c3pringle_credentials.pdf, and find out that I was mislead at college!!!! That college worshiped Pringle as a prophet by brainwashing us to believe he predicted 911!!!! HELLO!?! Using deaths in 911 to elevate prophetic office!?! Yuck!!!! And then they shovved down our throats Pringle getting an OAM from the Prime Minster John Howard!!!!
So does that mean Pringle mislead the Prime Minister of Australia with his false credentials??? And his college runs leadership classes?
Ugh I feel sick reading this. I was going to write all the things that disgust me about what I read (above) on Kong Hee’s attendance at Presence (dont get me started on his psyching the audience up either!!) but I have thought better of it…. I just know that through all of this, the Truth will come out, and Jesus will once again take his rightful place on the Throne. BUT, seriously how sick that Kong makes this journey all about him! How dare he! How dare they! It’s incredible to me the lack of humility. Guilty or not guilty, If i was on trial for my life, I would be humble and I would consider taking a break on ministering… Out of wisdom mostly…. why would you be parading around the world, preaching and campaigning for yourself like this????
Lastly, Kong’s wife and her China Wine music video….. Ugh Ugh Ugh…. Apart from being WOEFUL and embarrassing, it is a complete and utter slap in the face for God and His people… Not to mention the absolutely revolting sleazy dancing and lip-syncing.. I mean a (1.) pastors wife, (2.) a christian, (3.) a woman her age and (4.) a human being in general, doing this??? Kong & Sun, how does this edify and bring glory to God??? How on earth can you justify this!!??? I MEAN WHAT THE HECK IS GOING ON!?!?!!
I just can’t get over the complete mockery of God. Imagine what our beautiful Lord thinks and feels…
Heartbroken.
Yes the China Wine Video clip is just Gutter rubbish and C3 pastors and CHC try to excuse it as a Christian outreach project called “Crossover”, it sure was a Crossover a Crossover to the devil’s side !!!