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advisory pastor, Advisory Pastor Phil Pringle, c3, CHC, City Harvest Church, CityNews, CN, foolish virgins, fresh oil, lamps, oil, Phil Pringle, Pringle, virgins, wise virgins
The scriptures teach us Jesus giving this parable (emphasis ours):
“Then the kingdom of heaven will be like ten virgins who took their lamps and went to meet the bridegroom. Five of them were foolish, and five were wise. For when the foolish took their lamps, they took no oil with them, but the wise took flasks of oil with their lamps. As the bridegroom was delayed, they all became drowsy and slept. But at midnight there was a cry, ‘Here is the bridegroom! Come out to meet him.’
Then all those virgins rose and trimmed their lamps. And the foolish said to the wise, ‘Give us some of your oil, for our lamps are going out.’ But the wise answered, saying, ‘Since there will not be enough for us and for you, go rather to the dealers and buy for yourselves.’ And while they were going to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast, and the door was shut. Afterward the other virgins came also, saying, ‘Lord, lord, open to us.’ But he answered, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.
The point of Jesus’ parable of the Kingdom is very simple: Be ready! Keep the faith. “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.” Phil Pringle thinks likewise. This article will be examining how CHC fails to discern Phil Pringle’s dubious teaching. The title of the below article ‘Give us oil in our lamps’ is fortunately named, capturing the absolute foolishness of the reporter and CHC members that were duped by Phil Pringle’s teaching.
CityNews boldly reported that CHC knows Phil Pringle, “for wearing many hats, and wearing them well”, being “a talented artist and painter”, “inspiring preacher and teacher“, “a powerful prophet“, “a good friend to CHC” and for “being a conduit of God’s anointing“.
A true prophet cannot teach false doctrine. A true preacher and teacher cannot teach false teaching, especially if they are claiming they are a “conduit of God’s anointing”. That would be dangerous.
CityNews states that Phil Pringle shared a “revelatory offering message about how God requires from each giver a specific offering, and nothing else will atone for it” and then got “to the main purpose of his visit to CHC that weekend, to impart a fresh touch of God, the fresh oil of the anointing of the Holy Spirit”. CityNews further reports Phil Pringle saying, “I have been burdened for these meetings over the past week […] The fact is, God wants to empower every one of us. I am believing God, that He will touch you, empower you, fill you with the fresh oil of the Holy Spirit!”
No, Phil. We have already been given the oil of the anointing and the faith once and for all delivered to the saints. What are you selling CHC?
“Children, it is the last hour, and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come. Therefore we know that it is the last hour. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us. But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all have knowledge. I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and because no lie is of the truth. Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. No one who denies the Son has the Father. Whoever confesses the Son has the Father also. Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you too will abide in the Son and in the Father. And this is the promise that he made to us—eternal life.
I write these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. But the anointing that you received from him abides in you, and you have no need that anyone should teach you. But as his anointing teaches you about everything, and is true, and is no lie—just as it has taught you, abide in him.” 1 John 2:18-27
“Beloved, although I was very eager to write to you about our common salvation, I found it necessary to write appealing to you to contend for the faith that was once for all delivered to the saints.” Jude 1:3
John stresses that “it is the last hour”. Therefore, because we have been anointed by the Holy One “from the beginning”, we must abide in the faith that God has once for all delivered to the saints. As Jesus explained in his endtime parables that included the virgin parable,
“Therefore keep watch, because you do not know on what day your Lord will come. But understand this: If the owner of the house had known at what time of night the thief was coming, he would have kept watch and would not have let his house be broken into. So you also must be ready, because the Son of Man will come at an hour when you do not expect him.“
CityNews reports, “The five foolish virgins did not prepare enough oil in their lamps in case the bridegroom was delayed, and when he was delayed, they had no oil to light their lamps.” So why is Pringle encouraging people to come to him to get the oil for their lives? The parable said that the wise already had enough oil. It was the foolish that asked and then were told to go to the “dealers” to get more oil. They had to buy the oil.
Who is the dealer in this parable? It appears that Phil Pringle is the one trying to “make merchandise” out of the foolish virgins in the name of God. It was the foolish virgins that went on the journey back and forth from the dealer. Phil Pringle even said the fresh oil he gave, “is something to take back with you, to nurture for the journey ahead”. Is he the one John and Jude were warning the wise virgins (his disciples) against? What does anyone gain from buying oil from a false anointing “conduit” to find that the doors are closed?
CityNews published this article back in November 2010 and informed their readers that Phil Pringle, “in his second weekend with CHC” operated from his new role “as advisory pastor”. Any Christian should be able to stand faithful and ready on God’s Word so when Christ returns, they will be allowed entry. So why did CHC parade their new Advisory Pastor Phil Pringle and his message? At best Phil Pringle distracted CHC members from standing steadfast on the faith once and for all delivered to the saints.
Give Us Oil In Our Lamps
The first anointing service by advisory pastor Phil Pringle ushers in a refreshing touch from God.
City Harvest Church’s advisory pastor, Phil Pringle, is known in CHC for wearing many hats, and wearing them well. Many know him as a talented artist and painter, a consummate and entertaining storyteller, an inspiring preacher and teacher, a powerful prophet, and a good friend to CHC. But during the services over the weekend of Nov. 6 to 7, he revealed another aspect of his ministry: being a conduit of God’s anointing.
EMPOWERED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT
Well aware that the services that weekend was going to be different from what the church was used to from Pringle, the congregation was abuzz with anticipation and expectation right from the first service of the weekend at the Jurong West Street 91 premises. Pringle opened his time at the first service with an exuberant proclamation. “You are excited! God is excited, the Holy Spirit is excited, and Jesus is excited! The only person I know who is not excited today is the devil!” Pringle declared amidst a thunderous clap offering to God, setting the stage for the things to come.
In his second weekend with CHC in his new capacity as advisory pastor, Pringle said, “This service is going to be slightly different.” After sharing a revelatory offering message about how God requires from each giver a specific offering, and nothing else will atone for it, and how the church must learn to chase away the “vultures” that gather around the offerings out of Genesis 15, Pringle wasted no time in getting to the main purpose of his visit to CHC that weekend, to impart a fresh touch of God, the fresh oil of the anointing of the Holy Spirit.
“I have been burdened for these meetings over the past week,” Pringle shared with the Sunday morning crowd. “The fact is, God wants to empower every one of us. I am believing God, that He will touch you, empower you, fill you with the fresh oil of the Holy Spirit!”
Speaking out of Matthew 25, Pringle shared a sobering message about the parable of the 10 virgins. The five foolish virgins failed in their duty to the bridegroom, in honoring him and lighting up his way, and were closed off from his house. “The Bible says that out of the 10 virgins, five were foolish, and five were wise. The five foolish virgins did not prepare enough oil in their lamps in case the bridegroom was delayed, and when he was delayed, they had no oil to light their lamps.”
Pringle declared, “The Christian life is not hard—it is impossible! We cannot do the things that Jesus has asked us to do, unless we have the oil of the Holy Spirit!” He taught that, too often, we tend to substitute information for impartation, and miss out on the wave of God’s revival. Just like how a phone works, things such as contacts and applications in the phone are worthless unless there is power, and it is plugged into a source of power. Similarly, “the things in the kingdom of God need replenishing and recharging,” Pringle declared.
Pringle then exhorted the church, in this time of trial and testing, to face the future with the power of the Holy Spirit. Just as in the Word of God to Zerubbabel spoken through Zechariah, it is not by might or by power, but by the power of the Holy Spirit, Pringle shared, that “we can speak to the mountains in our lives.”
It was time, then, for the church to receive the new oil of the Holy Spirit, to make it through difficulties in life. Drawing a parallel with the 10 virgins’ lamps and the lives of the believers, Pringle said, “We need to have enough oil to go the distance. When the oil dries up, we start burning our wicks, which is relying on our own strength. That is why people get ‘burned out’.”
He then used King David in the Bible as an example, of how with greater responsibility came the need for the constant refilling of the oil of the Holy Spirit. David had three immense steps to take before reaching a different level in his life—going before Saul who wanted to kill him, becoming the king of Judah, then finally becoming the king of Israel. “He had to be equipped and equal to each level of challenge to overcome it, through the anointing of God.”
As a reminder to the church, Pringle said, “People tend to not notice, that waiting takes up as much oil as working. The five foolish virgins ran out of oil while they were waiting for the bridegroom, and did not have enough left to do their jobs.” Pointing out how the door was shut to the five foolish virgins, Pringle noted, “The oil of God in our lives keeps us ready for the opportunities that God has for us.”
PREPARING FOR GREATER OPPORTUNITIES
Finally, he shared why the other five virgins did not share the oil with their peers. “There are some things that you can’t get from someone else; you have to get it from God yourself, by reaching out and seeking God.” On that note, Pringle moved into a powerful time of ministry, which saw words of prophecy being spoken over various people, and the laying of hands on the congregation. People cleared out of their seats, and streamed to the altar area. A mighty move of God swept through the services as wave after wave of people were ministered to.
Toward the end of the service, Pringle emphasized, “This is not just an experience in the front, but this is something to take back with you, to nurture for the journey ahead.” With such an evident working and presence of God, Pringle issued a salvation and re-dedication altar call which saw people streaming to the front of the stage, giving their lives to Jesus, giving a fitting end to an awesome time of being in the presence of God.
“When Pastor Phil prayed for us, I felt a very strong presence of God, reminiscent of an Asia Conference session!” Alexander Liu, 29, a property executive, shared enthusiastically. Josiah Ang, 19, who had just returned from his National Service stint in Australia, said, “I feel that it is a fresh touch from God for me, especially after being away for over a month. We should continue to seek the filling of the Holy Spirit to keep us burning.”
Vera Li Zeng Ying, a 16-year-old student from Chong Boon Secondary School echoed Ang’s sentiments. “This is my first time experiencing an anointing service, but it was more than just a mere experience. I felt that this is a new start in my life. The moment Pastor Phil prayed for me, I felt God release all my fears and struggles. It is His Spirit that makes me believe I can overcome every obstacle!”
Source: By Jeremy Chua, CityNews, Give Us Oil In Our Lamps, http://www.citynews.sg/2010/11/give-us-oil-in-our-lamps/, 27/06/2014. (Accessed 27/06/2014.)
C3 Church Watch 
The parable of the ten virgin shows that we can lose our salvation. Jesus only took 5 of them. If you are luke warm God will spit you out.
You cannot lose your salvation, Annette. That’s an incorrect reading of the parable.
John 10:27-28 “My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me; 28 and I give eternal life to them, and they shall never perish; and no one shall snatch them out of My hand.”
Jesus says that no one shall snatch them out of his hand – can we snatch ourselves out of Jesus’ hand? No, we can’t, because the term “no one” includes the person who is saved. You cannot snatch yourself out of Christ’s hand.
John 6:37-40 “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day.”
Our eternal security revolves around the person of Christ and his work, not our faithfulness, not our goodness, not our ability to maintain ourselves.
“Our eternal security is purchased by Christ, promised by the Father, and sealed by the Holy Spirit.”
That’s true, Churchwatcher. I totally agree with you. We cannot lose our salvation as long as we are genuinely seeking The Lord, God knows who are His. However, we are to work out our salvation with fear and trembling. If we are genuinely seeking The Lord then He will cover our weaknesses and cause us to stand.
Annette – it sounds like you trying to do a work only the Lord can do, he preserves us, he enables us, he understands our weaknesses, he disciplines those he loves. When you use the word “if”, it becomes a “quid pro quo”
“Quid pro quo “something for something” in Latin means an exchange of goods or services, where one transfer is contingent upon the other. English speakers often use the term to mean “a favour for a favour”; phrases with similar meaning include: “give and take”, “tit for tat”, and “you scratch my back, and I’ll scratch yours.”
That’s not biblical.
James 2:10, “For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles in one point, he has become guilty of all.”
Gal. 3:10 “For as many as are of the works of the Law are under a curse; for it is written, ‘Cursed is everyone who does not abide by all things written in the book of the law, to perform them.’”
So what is the parable saying, Churchwatcher, in your own words, not other scripture verses.
Annette – do you accept that we use scripture to interpret scripture to make sense of the text, not our opinion. My words are worthless, only God’s word is true and Jesus himself in the text, says He will lose none that the Father has given him.
John 6:39 “This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.”
There’s the danger of becoming bound up in works righteousness. This is the method used by Catholics, Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses. I can’t stand before the Lord and say I kept my “salvation” by my own faithfulness, if I take credit for that then I am boasting (works righteousness).
I don’t use scripture to interpret scripture, I just take it in its context.
Yes – context is so important. But when passages we’re trying to interpret seems difficult, or vague, we can go to clearer passages that speaks on the same topic more clearly. This is important to do, or we can easily come to wrong conclusions.
Churchwatcher, I don’t find it to be a difficult passage at all! You don’t need any other scripture to interpret it, unless your relationship with God is merely intellectual.
Annette – Being snide about loving God’s Word and judging another for doing so, is a spiritually immature statement. Does that sound unkind? Yes, it probably does, so all comments will be carefully considered before approving.
John 10: 27-30. He clutches us firmly and securely with His hands.
Sorry Churchwatcher, I’m not trying to be snide, I’m just saying I believe in what a phil Pringle is saying, in this regard, but that doesn’t mean that I believe in some aspects of his theology, ect, ect ………
Typical scripture twisting methods of a false teacher = Phil Pringle. He’s interpreting/reading information into the text that is not there. It’s called “eisegesis”.
When we accept Jesus Christ as our Lord and Saviour we receive a deposit of The Holy Spirit as a guarantee of our inheritance. However the same power that rose Jesus out of hell and seated Him at Gods right hand is available to us. When we accept Christ we are still pretty sinful, not positionally but actually. It takes time and also our decision to cooperate with God and seek Him, allowing Him to transform us. Humility and obedience is important. As we are cleansed and delivered our body, the temple of God, will be more of The Holy Spirit and less of sin. I die and Christ Lives. The cares and stress of the world, and our inherited sins can weaken us and our struggle is against principalities Nd powers of darkness. So we need to drink from the water of Life. Come to me you who are heavy and ladened and I will give you rest. This is what Phil is talking about. Gods Word talks about the importance of laying on of hands. Gods power and strength to overcome.
@Annette – In order for your understanding to work, ALL 10 virgins must have been saved (gone into the Banquet) and then 5 of them must have been asked to leave (loose their salvation). The parable does not say that though does it.
I agree with Churchwatcher otherwise you are offering no security, or indeed peace, to the Christian at all. Rather, you are offering the constant battle of “am I good enough or not”.
Yes Annette we can be sure and we can be comforted by fact that we will never loose our salvation for all the reasons sited by Churchwatcher above.
Blessings,.
Then what happened to the other 5? Did they to through the tribulation as a punishment, and have a second chance to repent?
The parable indicates they were not saved. “I do not know you”.
“And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came, and those who were ready went in with him to the marriage feast; and the door was shut. Afterward the other maidens came also, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open to us.’ But he replied, ‘Truly, I say to you, I do not know you.’ Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour.”
That’s what I’m trying say, the other five thought they were saved but they weren’t. I tremble at the thought.
You all sound like you are all intellectual encyclopedias, you don’t even get what I am saying!
We are all learning Annette -= it’s quite a journey coming to an understanding of His amazing grace and unmerited favour.
There’s none righteous – only Christ.
Yee-har!
Well my poor horse got sick (he didn’t have enough faith apparently), and I lost my cowboy hat…and the outback is just too cold at this time of year, and because there’s another theological debate going on, I just HAD to come back to suburbia…
@churchwatcher:
“The parable indicates they were not saved. “I do not know you”.”
Also refer Matthew 7:21-23…about doing signs and wonders in His Name, driving out demons…Jesus said “I never KNEW you” (my emphasis).
I was actually waiting for PP to break into some offering message or distort Scripture for $$ but thankfully he didn’t.
Look having grown up in a Pentecostal church, experiencing “refreshings” etc, it’s interesting to look at what the Bible says and what was taught/experienced during these times, about the “anointing”. Like @churchwatcher said, we are all on a learning journey, in some things re-learning, or completely unlearning.
Instead of getting worked up, how about we open our Bibles (or apps) and see what the Scriptures say and ask the Spirit to teach us. I have actually been asking for discernment as opposed to opinion however it makes me nervous lol…
But during my brief trip out west, I learned there’s a lot of interesting/heretical/dangerous things happening in the Church right now. Like the good ol’ 90’s song says, “Open the eyes of my heart Lord”. I pray for discernment in all things. Oh wait, Paul says to test all things, bonza.
Or you are all so Holy, Or, as most people, unaware of our sinfulness and the spiritual war that we are in.
So you are saying we are not in a spiritual war, according to Ephesians?
I’m not superwoman, I’m glad I get to drink from the water of Life! I’m a fallen sinner saved by grace, I’m glad I get to be transformed and be a temple of the presence of God.
There are many who go to church but regularly depend upon some religious experiences, and ‘manifestation’ to drive their ‘faith’. Mysticism ,emotionalism and some imagination are necessary ingredients to produce a good feeling to convince themselves that they really got a fresh annointing and ready to be back on the road again. The Word and the Holy Spirit (and His annointing ) in them seem so unreal and powerless that they need a human medium to impart some tangible fresh feeling of annointing.
The Bible tells us that there is only one Baptism in/of the Holy Spirit but many fillings.The best illustration of being filled with the Holy Spirit is not as in a cup being filled but as in a sail of a boat that is opened up to allow the wind to fill and power it. Similarly Christians are to open up their sails as in submitting and surrendering themselves and their will to the will and power of the person of the Holy Spirit daily.The word of God becomes like the rudder that sets the direction we should move in daily and the Holy Spirit ,the wind that fills the sail and empowers that to happen. Any ‘charging’ you need cannot be through plugging yourself to any human or ‘prophet’. Isaiah 40:31 says it plainly: ” Yet those who wait for the Lord will gain new strength; They will mount up with wings like eagles, they will run and not get tired, they will walk and not become weary.” There you find your daily supernatural divine fresh fillings or ‘annointing’ if you so wish to call it. And there can be no lazy shortcut or human substitute or channel to deliver that. No, Pringles is not God’s appointed channel.
Churchwatcher, you are not correct. When one has indeed come to the Lord, having carried his cross to follow him until one is truly his and is able to hear his voice, then the devil cannot snatch him away from the Lord. Then such a person’s salvation is assured. The many who have not come to this stage of discipleship can be snatched away by the devil. Kong Hee once entered through the narrow gate and was walking the narrow road but midway, he was snatched away by the devil’s temptations of wealth, fame and power. And now, Kong Hee has himself entrapped to do evil. Jesus did not submit to the devil’s temptations. Israel’s first king (Saul) was appointed and anointed by God, but he lost his place. We should never assume our salvation is secured but we should always watch ourselves carefully lest the devil snatches us away from the Lord.
Jacob – Have you been bought with the blood of Christ? I’m assuming you have, so what are YOU doing to keep yourself “saved” that doesn’t put you in danger of the warning made by Paul to the Galatians.
Galatians 3:1-3 “O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh?”
It’s a serious heresy if you believe we keep our salvation by our works. We fall into the error of trying to keep our salvation by what we do. This is the danger of Arminian theology (which I think you may be). Because Jacob, “you are sounding more Arminian than Arminius”.
Jacob – Jesus said:
John 6:37-40 “All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”
If Jesus loses ANY, then the Father made a mistake in giving them to the Son and Jesus wasn’t able to do the will of the Father. Which means he, Jesus, would have sinned.
You see the problem, Jacob?
Hmm
Firstly, I’m sure we all know people who were committed to Christ, who were serving in the church etc, who showed a genuine faith in Christ.
Then for some reason, like in the Parable of the Sower, either the sun came up and caused the young plants to wither, or the thorns grew up and choked them. So in reality, they have left the faith. The same could be said of those hurt in churches and turn their back on the faith.
So in these instances, when they are not following Christ – are we doing a Rob Bell and saying it doesn’t matter they don’t have a relationship with Christ anymore? That on the last day, when they stand before Jesus, instead of saying “I never knew you”, He’ll say, “Oh..I kind of knew you once, haven’t seen you in ages, aww, come on in mate….”? Yet those who did miracles etc in His name won’t be going in?
Besides, the original post re PP’s teaching and its correct or incorrect interpretation has unfortunately deviated into who is right and who is wrong concerning “losing” or turning away from faith in Christ.
Eg – there are plenty of great apologetics sites, ie CARM, Pirate Radio. But it doesn’t mean *everything* they say is right, or the interpretation they take. I’d give examples but I’ll be straying further from the topic.
I think PP’s message above has some decent analogies to it but doesn’t it specifically refer to being ready for Christ’s return?
As a regular contributor here I hope we can show each other a bit more gentleness, from both sides of the argument, rather than the “I’m right you’re wrong” approach.
I would hate for a blog which has been so effective and thought provoking for those trapped in false teaching and church molds to become one where constructive debate is swallowed up in unswerving, and God-forbid, firm-handed mediation.
God bless
Squidaloopa – if we stick to what scripture actually says, we will all get along. 🙂 There are some who come here just to be divisive and they usually don’t get their comments out of moderation. Then there are those who (occasionally) just want to argue and accuse others of being “intellectuals” in an unloving way, perhaps because their own journey has only just started out away from false teachers. It is a long hard road at times, in one sense a de-programming, and that’s extremely difficult.
@churchwatcher
“perhaps because their own journey has only just started out away from false teachers…. In one sense a de-programming”
Yes – and despite personally believing I have a long and secure relationship with Christ, I am *still* deprogramming.
@Squidaloopa – welcome back ‘pardner’… in a way you are right about stating that we often ‘deviate from the topic or thread’ but the problems then becomes that, issues which arise out of that topic or initial thread need to be addressed They are real for people on both sides of the debate and can’t be simply swept under the carpet. 🙂
On the one hand you do have people who are still ‘popping out of church moulds’ and all that his entails. then you have others who have opted for their alternate view of scripture, which is often opposed to their former views.
What if I were to throw a real spanner in the works by mentioning Demas in 1 Timothy 4:10? Demas could have been a promising young minister of the Gospel, but apparently the bright lights of Thessalonika drew him back. Paul would not have had an ‘unsaved’ man on his ministry team, so what can we say?
“For Demas hath forsaken me, having loved this present world, and is departed unto Thessalonica; Crescens to Galatia, Titus unto Dalmatia.”
Now admittedly, Paul does not specifically indicate the Demas had “lost his salvation”, but he did categorically state that Demas had ‘left him’ and further qualified that by saying that he ‘had loved this present world’.
The apostle John states quite clearly in 1 John 2:15:
“Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him.”
So, allowing one scripture to interpret the other, we could say that Demas loved the world and the love of the Father was no longer in him, couldn’t we? No scripture twisting or proof texting here (no need it’s – plain and clear to me).
I find that often people of Reformed leanings fail to understand where others are coming from on this issue. Correct me if you think that i’m wrong, but it seems to me that they believe:
“that those who believe they can lose their salvation, somehow or other lose a portion of the Holy Spirit”. I know that this may cause confusion, but it is important to appreciate these differing perspectives, if we are to get on with it.
The Holy Spirit cannot be broken up into little pieces and apportioned out to each believer, so He cannot be ‘lost’. It is the work of the Holy Spirit (character and nature of Christ) in the life of an erring Christian that is lost. As Paul stated to the Galatians:
“My little children, of whom I travail in birth again until Christ be formed in you,”
(Galatians 4:19)
and again in Revelation, where Jesus states to the Ephesian Church “you have lost your first love” (the love of the Father?)
“Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love. Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.” (Revelation 2:4, 5)
So it is possible to hold a view in scripture that a person who has gone their own way, will lose the work of the Holy Spirit in their life, will lose the love of the Father/their first love and will go into darkness (lose the light that the candlestick of God’s word gives us,) if they do not repent.
Christ also commanded the Ephesian church to “do the first works” so you can’t leave works out of the equation either, although I firmly believe that a Christian works “from” their salvation – not “for ” it!
To my knowledge, Demas did not repent… and Paul did say that he “loved this present world…”
If according to Pringle it is impossible to live a true Christian life, then God is unrighteous to require us to live one. An unrighteous god is not God. And, according to Pringle, if indeed we cannot do the things Jesus wants us do without the oil of the Holy Spirit, then Jesus has taught us wrongly and should instead say “seek ye the oil of the Holy Spirit” instead of saying “seek ye the kingdom of Heaven and His righteousness”.
Yes, it is hard to live a live of righteousness. Our sinful nature is always tearing us from walking the righteous path. But it is possible to do what Jesus wants us to do. It will require us to carry our cross daily, to die to our sinful nature, pressing on, step by step, to our own Calvary until we died to become a new creature. To God, righteousness is not arrival, but our earnest struggle to make our way to where He is. Holiness is not a white sheet, but God removing the stains of our past sins.
During the walk to our Calvary, Jesus will ask the Father to send us the Holy Spirit to guide, comfort and advocate to us the things of righteousness and to remind us of everything Jesus has taught and said to us. Yes, by the leading of the Holy Spirit, we can live a life as Jesus’ disciples. The Holy Spirit leads but we must ourselves provide the traction. If we are not willing to walk to our Calvary, the Holy Spirit will not force us and can do nothing to make us become a true disciple. This has nothing to do with the oil of the Holy Spirit. Pringle has certainly an illusionary understanding of the truth.
How preposterous that, according to Pringle, the oil of the Holy Spirit can dry up, leaving us to start burning our own wick i.e. relying on our own strength. Is the oil so limited that it could not power us all the way home to the Lord? If Pringle is right then Jehovah Jireh is not an ample provider. And again Pringle said “the things in the kingdom of God needs replenishing and recharging —– O dear, is there nothing everlasting in God’s kingdom.
Have to disagree with you all on this one. You are all misinterpreting things. The power of God is there to help us overcome sin and strengthen us as we walk through this valley of the shadow of death. It’s not works based, it’s depending on God.
Why are we “all misinterpreting things”? If you say it’s not works-based then we are in agreement.
We need to be empowered by the Holy Spirit and drink from the river of life. We don’t have to, to be saved, but we get to, to help us in this walk. So I’m in agreement with Phil, for a change. You are reading into things that are not there.
We receive the Holy Spirit at conversion, not just a little but the total indwelling of His presence. He doesn’t leave us “floundering”, and He empowers us to serve in the gifts he distributes throughout the body of Christ.
Annette – you seem to want to debate the point needlessly?
I don’t agree with you, churchwatcher
What don’t you agree with, Annette?
Thants just the same as saying when we receive salvation we are no longer sinners and don’t sin anymore, which is untrue.
No one is saying that, Annette. We all sin daily and we are liars if we claim we don’t. With respect, you’re “arguing” with someone who is not disagreeing with you, just pointing out the need to stop talking past each other.
Delancey – you comments are not approved, that’s the decision of other moderators.
http://carm.org/does-hebrews-10-26-teach-that-we-can-lose-our-salvation
Churchwatcher, you don’t know everything, have you ever considered the idea that you may be wrong on some points. No use just chucking scriptures at people, as your answer. That’s not an answer at all, and quite insulting. And no, I’m not being unloving just because I don’t see it your way.
Of course none of us know everything – but your disparaging scripture over “opinion” is not the answer either. If we can’t rely on God’s Word (contextually), we find ourselves back in the arena of experiential “theology” – famously misused by churches like C3 and Hillsong. Experiences given a higher value than scripture.
Dear Churchwatcher and Annette, salvation is a very personal thing. It is not just theology or what we hear others say about it but it is totally experiential – the mental and emotional pain, the feeling of aloneness (not loneliness) and the uncertainties of what is going on, and the leading and encouragement of the Holy Spirit which breaks the confidence in oneself and reattaches that confidence to the Lord, anchoring the reality of God the Father, and Jesus His Son to one’s deepest inner self. This is the Way, which will bring us to the Truth, and to everlasting Life, which is salvation. True discipleship is salvation, and it is not free; but you cannot buy it with money or with utterances of praise and worship. It is free to those who will walk the Way that Jesus will show. It is not free to the one who sits comfortably in the pew. This Way is obedience to the Word of God, sacrificing whatever earthly crowns we have, to become righteous and to receive sonship of the Father and to pick up new crowns in the kingdom of God. For God is choosing and preparing a race for the New Earth. God has declared, “I am making everything new, and it is done.” Many are called but few are chosen. Though the Calvary walk may be long and tumultuous (for some, like me), there is an end, after which there is great joy beyond human expressions. At this point, salvation is secured.
Jacob – how is this not works righteousness?
The Father prunes the branch so that it can bear fruits. Those that do not produce fruits shall be cut and thrown into the fire. Churchwatcher – if bearing fruits is works, then yes, seeking the path of righteousness is works. If it is the Father that makes the barren branch produce fruits, then on Judgment Day, will God not show Himself unrighteous that He chose some who are barren of will to save but not all? The Father is righteous, and on that day, all that are judged – saints and condemned – will bow their knees and confess with their tongues that He is Almighty, merciful and all righteous God of heaven and earth. And all, big and small, will be glad.
“At this point, salvation is secured.”
This is one of the verses I hold onto as a recovering ex=RC: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=1+John+5%3A10-13&version=KJV
He that has Jesus has [present tense] life – not WILL have life, not MIGHT have life (if he lasts to the end) – HAS life, eternal life.
And this, Thinker:
Jude 1:24-25 “Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling and to present you blameless before the presence of his glory with great joy, to the only God, our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion, and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.”
Yes Thinker, believe on the Son of God, but be doer of that he says and not only hearer. And you shall see deliverance, and be touched by him. The love of the Father is upon you.
Jacob – you’re from Singapore? What church do you attend?
I don’t agree with pp on that point. “God requires from each person a special offering” – what!!!! that’s nothing but manipulation to get people to give out of fear, so pp can line his pockets and afford his $3mil mansion and his “important” lifestyle.
Dear Lord; thank you for your Holy Words which they are all true.
Your word says;
Asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, He replied to them by saying, The kingdom of God does not come with signs to be observed or with visible display,
Nor will people say, look! Here [it is]! or, see, [it is] there! For behold, the kingdom of God is within you [in your hearts] and among you [surrounding you.
Your word says;
Seek (aim at and strive after) first of all His kingdom and His righteousness (His way of doing and being right),…..
It is sad to see and hear that some people twist the true words of Our Lord God Jesus to preach their own interpretations for their own selfish purposes, and personal glory and not the Glory of our Lord.
If Phil Pringle had only continued reading the words and teachings of Our Lord, right to the end of Matthew chapter 25, as a whole, and not cherry picking, (The whole chapter deals with what our final destination will be, when Jesus comes back to earth to judge every one of us, for what we have done in our lives), Phil Pringle would have found what Jesus our Lord was saying and teaching as a whole, and still continues in doing so.
Unfortunately, and it is very sad that many of Pringle’s teachings and preaching’s contradicts, the real teachings of our Lord and God Jesus, and he partially or totally twists them for his own selfish purposes.
Interesting; Jesus at the end of Matthew 25, tells us what the final and eternal outcome will be, [for those who have failed to do it for Him].
Genuine salvation results in transformation of lives in Christ to bear fruits and do good works that glorifies our Father in heaven. They are the fruits that stems from genuine salvation but they are not the conditions required for salvation as then it will mean salvation by our merit or works or what some call Lordship salvation. And even then the degree of good works or fruits is imperfect and varies in each individuals as we remain under sanctification this side of eternity. If salvation is dependent on works in addition to grace, then it is no longer salvation by grace alone and we are no different from other religions unsure of eternity. In such a situation we will be more miserable than the heathen, walking in Christ but unsure of salvation , for who among us will dare to presume we will be saved because we merit it by our works. Only a self righteous Pharisee will dare to proclaim that he deserves the favour of God because of good works and that he is not like the poor sinner pleading for God’s mercy.
I agree with everything you said (and gave +1) except “Lordship Salvation” (LS) issue.
Some Christians assume that LS is like the Roman Catholic (RC) Church’s teaching.
RC: Faith + good works (done over a lifetime+ increasing holiness) -> salvation.
LS: Faith + good works (proving Jesus is Lord of their life) -> salvation.
I have read and listened to Christian teachers who subscribe to this view and concluded it is more like this.
LS = salvation by *faith alone*-> changed heart -> *demonstrated* by Christian making Jesus Lord and Saviour -> good works
Therefore Ephesians 2:8-10 and James 2:14-26 do not contradict IF genuine faith LEADS to good works.
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=ephesians+2%3A8-10&version=KJV
https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=James+2%3A14-26&version=KJV
Good explanations of the pro-Lordship position. http://www.monergism.com/topics/lordship-christ/antinomianism/lordship-controversy
If your understanding of lordship salvation is by grace alone and not grace plus works then we are in complete agreement. You are right, Jesus should not just be our saviour but Lord as well. I was referring more to those who ideas of salvation that depend on the measure of one’s submission to His Lordship amplified by one’s abilty or degree in the performance of obedience. Then that will add up to works and create uncertainty of salvation again, would it not?
Please Phil – or Steve – or other C3 or CHC attendee – tell us what this revelation is. If it’s anything like other “revelations” I’ve heard off the c3 pulpit, it is most likely person opinion that had no Scriptural basis.
That won’t ever happen unfortunately. Instead of “pay-per-view” it’s “pay-per-vision”.
Dear Berean, Did not Jesus say ‘my sheep knows my voice’ and ‘I have sheep also in other pens, I go to call them and lead them out so that there is but one flock, and I am the good Shepherd’? I was in a pen (not a C3 church or CHC), and I heard his call and I followed him, my Good Shepherd. Many pens are today dens of robbers. I too am a church-watcher but I hear of none speaking with the voice of the Shepherd to show the true Way. Only He, Jesus the Good Shepherd is able to show the Way and can ask of the Father to send a companion to walk with us every step on our way to Calvary. Now, I am not in any pen, but Zion – the kingdom of Heaven on earth. It is like what Jesus said it is in the Bible. He has not lied, but is faithful to speak the truth, and the Father has exalted him above all in heaven and earth. But to hear, one must have ears to hear. And to see, one must have eyes to see.
Salvation by grace alone is a lie. Grace is shown us when our past sins are blotted out and do not any more count against us. Being cleansed does not mean we do not get dirty again, and the unclean cannot stand before the Holy God. When we show ourselves worthy by earnestly seeking to walk the way of righteousness, God credits us to be righteous. At this point, our house is swept clean so that the Counsellor can abide. Soldiers will encamp around us to guard us against fiery darts although a few arrows will be allowed to hit. When in His hands, in His crucible to be made like gold, no one can snatch us away from Him. The amount of preparations undertaken in the heavenly realm just so to bring one home is beyond earthly minds, leaving one only to complete his or her journey to Calvary – no wonder the angels in heaven rejoice and clap their hands when a soul reaches home. Know this – grace erases our stains, but love sees us home.
Jacob – We are saved by grace through faith alone.
Ephesians 2:8 “For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God..”
Jacob – you say in your comment “When we show ourselves worthy by earnestly seeking to walk the way of righteousness, God credits us to be righteous.” When? That sounds like works righteousness. Scripture says that all of our righteous deeds are like “filthy garments”. Our own righteousness is simply not good enough and never will be, no matter how hard we try.
Isaiah 64:6 “For all of us have become like one who is unclean, and all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; and all of us wither like a leaf, and our iniquities, like the wind, take us away.”
Christ’s righteousness is credited to us when we place our faith in Christ. God imputes the perfect righteousness of Christ to our account so that we become perfect in His sight.
Not our perfection, but His imputed perfection.
2 Corinthians 5:21 “He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.”
I wish you no offence as you are seeking the truth. Paul is a fisher of men who casts his line into the water, and which at the end of the line has 90% food but 10% iron. Do not take his line. There are some who publish their understanding on who Paul is – please check them on the internet and ask God for the discernment you need. There are many walls that obscure the truth, Paul is one. Jesus speaks the truth, seek him only for he has the authority to open minds and scriptures to understand. But first give yourself ears to hear and eyes to see so that you may understand.
What church do you go to, if at all, Jacob? That’s some pretty weird theology you’ve got going on there, mate.
“please check them on the internet and ask God for the discernment you need”
No thanks, we’ll stick to the “all scripture is God-breathed” method, and that includes Paul.
Jacob- salvation is by grace through faith alone. The work of redemption has been fully accomplished by Christ at Calvary.He has won the victory very completely to give salvation very completely requiring no further help or works from us. Yes, all who are saved should live a life worthy of His calling and as you say ‘earnestly seeking to walk the way of righteousness” That should be the natural desire of a born again believer but you are wrong to say ‘for that God credits for us to be righteous’. Walking in righteousness is the evidence of true conversion not the condition for God to credit us as righteous because Jesus has done that and only His work on Calvary can credit us as righteous. And how can our ‘good’ and ‘righteous’ work be credited as righteous when to God it is like filty rags, unless you think that yours is not. I don’t know who you are but so far you sound like preaching some strange cult gospel.
“I don’t know who you are but so far you sound like preaching some strange cult gospel.”
Have to agree with you, Set Free.
I speak from experience based only on what Jesus speak and taught, yet do you call it cult? But I take no offence – for what one knows, one knows; and what one does not know, one does not know.
Dear Set Free, you will need to seek understanding of the plan of the Almighty God to make sense of everything. He is making everything new and is choosing and preparing a race for the New Earth, where the evil of man will have no place.
Jacob- I have heard these kind of gospel and rigid regulated style of discipleship in the Church of Christ(International) in Malaysia and Singapore. This is a fringe group with its own version of gospel. It is different from the main Church of Christ (COC) in Australia. In fact it is a break away group from the main COC whose gospel is orthodox but not the Church of Christ ( International) . Or maybe you are from other strange group. You must be checking your scoreboard daily to see if your righteous works and walk are sufficient enough to add to Christ’s work on Calvary and be passable for entry to Heaven. Honestly, I don’t know where to find the scoreboard to check my daily score. But I don’t think I need to as I am sure my works are like filty rags and I score zero and totally dependent on Christ victorious score at Calvary no matter how ‘successful’ or unsuccessful I am in my walk. Churchwatcher we need to beware of people writing here to confuse the less discerning.
@Churchwatcher – the beliefs espoused by ‘Jacob’ appear to line up with an early Church heresy called “the Ebionites”. They accepted the OT and the gospel of Matthew only, and not the rest of the NT. I may not be 100% accurate in all of this but I remember reading about them last year, and their links to the current Hebrew Roots Movement (HRM), although I would have to admit that ‘Jacob’ doesn’t sound too HRM to me.
Some hold the erroneous view that the apostle Paul was a ‘ring in’ – that he claimed a false apostleship and that we are not to listen to him – bunkum! The apostle Paul was raised up by God as a witness to the Jews in his conversion and as an apostle to the Gentiles in his ministry work. Seeing that he wrote the bulk of the NT we surely must give heed to his words, in conjunction with the other apostolic writings and the words of Jesus in balance.
People out on the fringe who hold views similar to those listed above have even gone as far as describing Paul as the Biblical ‘Antichrist’ – I cannot see that one at all, seeing that Paul himself warned us against the Antichrist in 2 Thessalonians 2…
“But during the services over the weekend of Nov. 6 to 7, he revealed another aspect of his ministry: being a conduit of God’s anointing”.
I wonder why it has taken so many years for Pringle to reveal this ‘new’ aspect?
“main purpose of his visit to CHC that weekend, to impart a fresh touch of God”…
So ONLY pringle could do that? Not the Holy bible, not our Lord Jesus Christ, but….him?
Does pringle actually believe that God’s touch can wear out over time, and pringle will replemish it for you?
I only thing about this news article i agree with, is where CHC described pringle as a “storyteller”. I completely agree 100%.
Dear Churchwatcher, you asked if I am from Singapore and the church I attend. Yes, I am from Singapore.
Did not Jesus instruct his disciples to enter into homes of them whom they see worthy to sup, heal and to teach at close range? And in the synagogues or on the streets or from the hill slopes or from a boat near shore did he not speak openly but some in parables – that those without ears will not hear and without eyes not see the things they are not worthy of understanding? When enquired, did he not explain in private to his disciples? The secrets of the kingdom of heaven are revealed only to Jesus’ disciples who, today, are those who walk the Way to their own Calvary. If one has, more will be given; but if one has not, then whatever one has will be taken from him/her. True seekers will give themselves ears to hear and eyes to see lest they forfeit themselves to receive knowledge of the secrets of heaven.
No, I do not attend churches of man for they have not knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven.
Well, sadly it appears you have a “god” of your own making, Jacob.
We understand through studying God’s word that spiritual gifts are distributed throughout the body of believers. How then do you account for the office of teacher? A role given by God to edify His church.
This gift is given by the Holy Spirit, and it enables the pastor/elder to effectively communicate the word of God to others, usually in the context of the local church.
And as for your decision not to attend a gathering, fellowship or church, you’re opposing God’s instruction.
Hebrews 10:19-25″ Therefore, brothers,since we have confidence to enter the holy places by the blood of Jesus, by the new and living way that he opened for us through the curtain, that is, through his flesh, and since we have a great priest over the house of God, let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, with our hearts sprinkled clean from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for he who promised is faithful. And let us consider how to stir up one another to love and good works, not neglecting to meet together, as is the habit of some, but encouraging one another, and all the more as you see the Day drawing near.”
Beware of Pauline teachings. Of this, I will say no more.
Jacob, I’m guessing your bible must be a pretty “thin” version with all the Pauline epistles missing?
Are you trying to tell the church that God didn’t choose Paul, and that his gospel is false? The reason you seem to arrive at this conclusion is because you appear to be a “law keeper” yourself who doesn’t understand the covenants, doesn’t understand the differences in the Mosaic and the new covenant based on the grace of God, and you don’t understand the work of Jesus on the cross.
By rejecting what Paul wrote, you demonstrate that you are ashamed of the gospel that Jesus Christ gave.
It is bewildering to be told this: the Truth is in the Bible, but the Bible is not the Truth.
Jesus did say “This is what I told you while I was still with you: ‘Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms'”. Seek to know Jesus, your Savior through these scriptures that are written about him, including his own words in the four Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John); and, all the others are adjuncts – mostly good but some are deadly poisonous.
Please refrain from condemning me if you find you cannot accept what I have told you that the whole Bible is not inerrant, for this is the Truth. The doctrine of inerrancy of the Bible is a tall wall that has obscured many from the Truth of God.
Churchwatcher-The Pauline doctrines are the essential substance of the biblical christian faith. Without them you have a different gospel and faith. Jacob is only here to confuse and deceive the less discerning with his false teachings. Ignore him and my advice is keep him out. Waste of time to reason with him. He is here only to deceive.
Yes I agree. I think I made that quite clear by saying to him “By rejecting what Paul wrote, you demonstrate that you are ashamed of the gospel that Jesus Christ gave.” He falls under this category:
Galatians 1:8 “But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.”
@Jacob No, I do not attend churches of man for they have not knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven”.
So Jacob….if you do not attend the ‘churches of man’ you must be something other than a human being?
You have ‘the secrets of Heaven’…? What Holy Bible have you learnt this from?
Do you know more than all the Holy Apostles, Prophets and Martyrs?
May God lead you to His true Word..not your own interpretation.
That guy sounded real strange and eerie. Makes my hair stand.
Set Free – ever heard this analogy used about false teachers?
“Anyone trained to recognize counterfeit money knows the best method is to be so familiar with the real thing that the inconsistencies of the fake are obvious.”
So we look to the bible, “sola scriptura” as the final authority.
Jacob has his own stripped-down version. Reminds me of American President Thomas Jefferson and how “he created his own gospel by taking a sharp instrument, perhaps a penknife, to existing copies of the New Testament and pasting up his own account of Christ’s philosophy, distinguishing it from what he called “the corruption of schismatizing followers”. He eschewed anything that he perceived as “contrary to reason.”
Jefferson and Jacob fulfilling Ecclesiastes 1:9 “What has been is what will be, and what has been done is what will be done, and there is nothing new under the sun.”
Churchwatcher – do you wish me not to comment further and allow the ‘mystery’ you perceived about me to go unclarified. I am more than willing to answer any question or doubt anyone here may have. But I also respect your right to moderate as this is your site. I am a sinner who has simply followed Jesus commands, and I have endured the walk carrying my cross to my Calvary, and have seen things and heard from the Holy Spirit. Today, it is the Holy Spirit who teaches and leads disciples to the truth – just as Jesus said in the Gospel. Please tell me if I should remain silent or continue to post comments.
Jacob – your ongoing attack on the Holy-Spirit breathed Pauline Epistles cast doubt as to whether you’re even regenerate. Your comments are no longer welcome. You are deceived and need to repent.
So be it. We will only know who was right on the day of judgment – but one side will regret although it is too late. Good bye.