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Amanda, Amanda Wells, Bethel, DNA, fake, fakes, false prophet, false prophets, fraud, frauds, GCC, Glory City Church, Katherine Ruonala, Mandy, Patricia King, prophet, Ruonala, wells
“Like a muddied spring or a polluted well are the righteous who give way to the wicked.” Proverbs 25:26
A Deceptive Prophecy Given To the Glory Gathering During December 2012
This piece will be our last piece on Amanda Wells for hopefully some time. This article will look at a certain ‘prophecy’ given by Gold Coast “prophetess” Amanda Wells, to Katherine Ruonala and the Glory Gathering aka Glory City Church, situated in the inner Brisbane suburb of Kelvin Grove, in December 2012. (Amanda Wells’ comments in italics.) You can see the full prophecy at the bottom of this article.
“Over the last couple of days I’ve just been praying, “God what’s for 2013?” I had a word as I was walking yesterday and I wrote to Pastor Katherine and gave it to her. And I really believe that 2013 is going to be really, really pivotal because God is a triune God. Everything God does is in threes. Father, Son, Holy Spirit; Heaven’s in threes. And so, next year, 2013, is a pivotal year because it’s the third year. It’s like the third day. God’s going to break out. And as I was praying I heard God say that “Glory City Church is going to break out.”
Well, well, well, Amanda – what do you know about that? “I had a word as I was walking yesterday and I wrote to Pastor Katherine and gave it to her…” and who or what was the source of that ‘word’ Amanda?
Was there an underlying passage or two of scripture that supported the ‘word’? No? How about the confirmation of two or three credible, reliable ‘witnesses’ (mature brethren) Amanda? What, none? Hmmmmm – doesn’t look good does it, Amanda? “It’s like the third day” – how very NAR of you!
“There are going to be Glory Gatherings in Australia and overseas. And those Glory Gatherings are going to turn into Glory City Churches and I saw three for this year particularly. One overseas, maybe two overseas, but definitely in Australia as well. And I just saw over Pastor Tom and Pastor Katherine such an apostolic anointing coming. They’ve been standing in it but now the apostolic anointing is really upon them; it’s being released.”
Looks like there’s going to be a ‘multiplication of churches’, “…and those Glory Gatherings are going to turn into Glory City Churches and I saw three for this year particularly” but then again, that might just be the good old fashioned ‘cloning’ or ‘rebadging’ process, mightn’t it? There is absolutely no guarantee that this ‘prophecy’ is of God, no matter how holy and righteous it may sound. In fact, it sounds just like the ‘church growth’ ideology, doesn’t it? Oh dear Amanda, we do hope that ‘pastor Katherine’ didn’t give you a love offering for this one – she may have to come calling for a refund sometime soon…
Let’s remind ourselves briefly, of what scripture demands of prophets:
“Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment. But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent. For you can all prophesy one by one, so that all may learn and all may be exhorted…” (1 Corinthians 14: 29, 30)
We don’t want to confuse or conflate the ‘gift of prophecy’ (as above) – that which is used in a normal gathering of believers, with the “office” of a prophet, which Amanda Wells claims to hold. If her prophetic utterance/gift wasn’t judged by the brethren at her local church, during a normal church service, then she automatically goes into the big league of NT Prophet – end of story. So her ‘prophecy’ must be judged accordingly for 100% accuracy – nothing less. Sorry about that Amanda, but they are the rules. The gift of prophecy is always judged at the local level, but NT Prophets are held accountable for every word they say on the national/international scale.
There are two clear instances that come to mind from scripture – Agabus, prophesying a famine (Acts 11:28,) which is a historically recorded fact, during the days of the Roman Emperor, Claudius Caesar, and the other time, was when Agabus prophesied over the apostle Paul, concerning his fate:
“As we were staying there for some days, a prophet named Agabus came down from Judea. And coming to us, he took Paul’s belt and bound his own feet and hands, and said, “This is what the Holy Spirit says: ‘In this way the Jews at Jerusalem will bind the man who owns this belt and deliver him into the hands of the Gentiles.'”… (Acts 20:10, 11)
The Book of Acts record both prophecies coming from Agabus, a recognized NT prophet – and both prophecies came true, just as the prophet had said. Notice that modern day ‘prophets’ are often ambiguous in how they deliver their ‘divine words’ concerning people, places and events? Like the word ‘building’ – during 2012 the Glory Gathering did look at several buildings, as options for larger congregations, but what is Amanda saying here, in her ‘prophecy’? A larger church building or a buildup of numbers…?
“And so, as it is, you’re going to see building start, and the building is going to bring structure. The structure is not to keep God in or keep God out, or keep you in or keep you out, but it’s to bring order because now the Church is going to face a time of great order. And some of you might be a little bit upset about that, but know that God is saying, “This is the time of order” because He’s bringing divine order.”
“…because now the Church is going to face a time of great order…” Well that just about does it for us – this tripe sounds just like the old Shepherding and Discipling doctrines of the 1970’s and 80’s – great order? What kind of rubbish is ‘Amanda’ foisting on top of poor old ‘apostle’ Katherine Ruonala? It sounds more like ‘top down control’, doesn’t it? Well, Amanda does attempt to explain this great ‘order’ that God is bringing to the Glory Gathering sometime soon:
“This is the time of order, because He’s bringing divine order.”
(Was the Glory Gathering church in any particular kind of disorder, before Amanda’s prophecy? Perhaps, but we’ll never know…)
“It’s a time when He’s going to release apostolic leadership in the House…”
Ah well, now we have it – now we’re getting to the crux of it – more “apostles”! Of course, you see brethren, you can’t have more (NAR) churches, unless you have more (NAR) apostles, can you? So this great multiplication of ‘apostles’ has to take place first, and no doubt Katherine Ruonala would’ve been working overtime in order to concoct some kind of class (Apostolic 101?) in order to cater for the ‘demand’ of Amanda’s ‘prophecy’. But if the ‘prophet’ who identifies just who the new order ‘apostles’ are, is proven to be a fake, then the whole “apostolic succession” goes out the window, doesn’t it?
“Because the apostolic leadership must multiply and actually take the DNA of Glory City Church into places around the Earth.”
What, pray tell, is the ‘DNA’ of Glory City Church? Is it that stamp of ownership that enjoins everything that is NAR here in old Brisbane town? Probably. DNA is a church growth code word for ‘culture’ – those who understand the church growth jargon will see it straight away. We saw this same “DNA” nonsense in another Brisbane church back in 2007, and that’s all it is – our culture, our vision, our loyalty to our pastor/pastrix – that’s what is meant by a churches’ DNA.
Amanda is merely babbling on about how the Glory Gathering is going to expand worldwide, and in so doing, will either clone or rebadge dozens of other ‘churches’ with the Glory Gathering’s DNA as a mainstay of their global agenda, going forward.
“And so you’re going to see the apostolic leadership and don’t get upset when it happens, but know that God has an anointing on this House.”
Why are we not surprised? Because we saw all of the NAR rot setting in at that church several years ago – and left. Bill Hammon, Brian Simmons, Patricia king – TODD BENTLEY!!! In 2011 it was Cindy Jacobs and Che Ahn. Yes, the whole line up of NAR heroes was present throughout the time of our visitation. Of course, all of this ‘false profit’ nonsense was predicated on the ‘anointing’ flowing from the fingertips of these ‘apostles and profits’!
Katherine Ruonala has managed to ingratiate herself with the top shelf ‘heavies’ of the NAR movement in our day, and has reaped some handsome ‘rewards’ for doing so. She gets to host all of the above once or twice a year, and she also gets to travel on the international speaking/preaching circuit at least two or three times a year as well, but ‘apostles’ like Katherine, could never get up in the first place, without the ‘nod’ coming from a group if recognised ‘prophets’ – that just wouldn’t do – and that’s where Amanda Wells comes in. She is a ladder climbing deceiver, who poses as a business coach by day and a false prophet by night. Make no mistake brethren, this woman has not one ounce of the Spirit of God abiding on her.
There are some strong links between the Glory Gathering and Bethel – the veritable headquarters of everything NAR, situated at Redding in California, and run by Bill Johnson, with some of Katherine’s more ‘advanced’ disciples, choosing to be further deceived by spending some six months or more “going to the next level” in God, by attending Johnson’s School of the Spirit type ministry. Of course, that costs a lot of money – thousands of dollars per student, per year. Katherine Ruonala styles herself after well-known women Evangelists, such as Aimee Semple McPherson and Maria Woodworth Etter. She is a publicly avowed devotee of William Marion Branham – the Granddaddy false prophet of them all.
But, nevertheless, Amanda has said it (the divine ‘word’) – and we’d better believe it if we know what’s good for us. So, it looks like the following year (2013) was all done and dusted, not long after Amanda had unwrapped her Christmas presents.
“Multiplication is coming in this place. And it’s not just coming in here but it’s coming around the world. And you’re going to see the DNA of this House start to be planted in every place, even around the world. It is an amazing year in Jesus.”
But then again, a casual observer would be well within their rights to question this Bible based babble, wouldn’t they? No scripture to support the ‘word’ of Amanda, no multiple witnesses to confirm that it was from God, and absolutely no way of knowing whether it was an accurate New Testament prophecy at all. “Well done” Amanda – we’re sure that Katherine will have you back again sometime soon for one more go around the block!
CONCLUSION
So how do we assess ‘Amanda’ against the backdrop of the current NAR landscape? Do we try and find a ‘home’ for her amongst the myriads of emerging “apostles and prophets”, or do we discern the kind of spirit that is behind such folly? The NAR isn’t the first organisation to emerge on the world scene, claiming that they are the only ones – they have the ‘new revelation’ – and that “they” collectively have the monopoly on God, because they are the New Dawn, heralded by their own personal apostles and prophets. So, if you want to exchange the ‘old church’ for a ‘new church’ – then you also have to replace the original ‘apostolic/prophetic NT team’, with an ‘NAR apostolic/prophetic team’, and make it stick – it’s that simple!
There were other movements that have made similar claims in times past – one of those being the Mormon Church. Founding fathers Joseph Smith and Brigham Young also had similar claims towards divine inspiration and revelation – claims that have subsequently proven to be false. Essentially, Mormonism looks to be ‘Christian’ in word and deed, but further investigation has revealed modern day Mormonism to be little more than a pagan cult, couched in Christian ‘terminology’. It builds ‘temples’ and baptizes people ‘for the dead’. We’ve even heard that tithing is mandatory and it is checked regularly.
Mormonism was predicated on Smith allegedly finding a number of secret golden plates – plates with strange writing on them, which could only be properly discerned by using the two magic ‘peep stones’ named “Urim and Thumim”. By looking through the two (glass) stones, Smith and Young claimed that the writing on the golden plates could be deciphered, and that is where the Book of Mormon came from – of course it did… aided and abetted by visions from the (fallen) angel Moroni.
This is pagan priest craft at its best – it is also age old Gnosticism – “we have the secret knowledge of the ages, and it can only be discerned by our high priest/priestess” – for a small sum of money – votive offerings as well as regular ‘seasonal’ ones too. “First fruits anybody”? Or maybe we can have ‘Honour the witchdoctor” offerings, or maybe we can even offer our time, talents, energy and money, as well as our spouses and children. And in very special cases (of gross deception) we can even offer the family home upon the altar of this pagan sect, called the NAR.
So how does this work for ‘Amanda’ and her ilk? Well the ‘peep stones’ have been replaced with books, CDs and DVDs as interpreted by Amanda. The ‘golden plates’ of Mormon fame were whipped away back into heaven by Moroni after they had been ‘translated’. Strange isn’t it, that when you and I go looking for verifiable Biblical proof, there isn’t any. Unless you’re looking for jewelry manifesting in the carpet, oil just dripping off ‘Pastor Dezastor’s hands and false angelic presence and revelation manifesting in their meetings. Which you find in the modern day NAR, and where equivalent forms of deception were found in the early Mormon church.
And what was Mormonism the answer too? Christianity? Didn’t they have their own apostles and prophets “take the DNA… into places around the earth”, convincing Christianity they were the church, the whole church and nothing but the true church? If they want to use the word “DNA”, then the only DNA the church has is the Word of God. Faith comes be hearing and hearing the word of God. Not so with Amanda and Glory City Church. It looks as though the “DNA of [Glory City Church]” is more or less the culture of their church. It is not the historic Christian faith that is the DNA, it is their Glory City culture.*
Joseph Smith was a plagiarist and a scammer – he stole stories from other writers that went to make up the Book of Mormon. He also sold “holy Wheat” to desperate farmers, suffering the ravages of drought.
But… Amanda, have you stolen your ‘revelations’ from others? And what have you got on special this week? “Anointed” CDs and DVDs? Buy one get one free?
Why are we not surprised.
AMANDA WELL’S PROPHECY
Over the last couple of days I’ve just been praying, “God what’s for 2013?” I had a word as I was walking yesterday and I wrote to Pastor Katherine and gave it to her. And I really believe that 2013 is going to be really, really pivotal because God is a triune God. Everything God does is in threes. Father, Son, Holy Spirit; Heaven’s in threes. And so, next year, 2013, is a pivotal year because it’s the third year. It’s like the third day. God’s going to break out. And as I was praying I heard God say that “Glory City Church is going to break out.”
There are going to be Glory Gatherings in Australia and overseas. And those Glory Gatherings are going to turn into Glory City Churches and I saw three for this year particularly. One overseas, maybe two overseas, but definitely in Australia as well. And I just saw over Pastor Tom and Pastor Katherine such an apostolic anointing coming. They’ve been standing in it but now the apostolic anointing is really upon them; it’s being released.
And so, as it is, you’re going to see building start, and the building is going to bring structure. The structure is not to keep God in or keep God out, or keep you in or keep you out, but it’s to bring order because now the Church is going to face a time of great order. And some of you might be a little bit upset about that, but know that God is saying, “This is the time of order” because He’s bringing divine order.
It’s a time when He’s going to release apostolic leadership in the House. Because the apostolic leadership must multiply and actually take the DNA of Glory City Church into places around the Earth. And so you’re going to see the apostolic leadership and don’t get upset when it happens, but know that God has an anointing on this House. Multiplication is coming in this place. And it’s not just coming in here but it’s coming around the world. And you’re going to see the DNA of this House start to be planted in every place, even around the world. It is an amazing year in Jesus.
Source: Amanda Wells, Prophetic Words, Glory City Church, http://www.glorycitychurch.com.au/propheticwords/, Prophecy given 30th December 2012. (Accessed 04/11/2014 at 14:26pm.)
*We will be doing a future article on Katherine Ruonala and Glory City Church.
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DNA is a whole evening out where “experts” get to decide whether you have the ‘right’ DNA – the right demeanour which means’: ” is this ‘tithing unit” dumb enough to wear various abuses without complaining or leaving?”
ALERT!! More from The Heresy Factory…….
Amanda Wells on the DNA between Pharaoh and the Egyptian Pick 5….
|-| “Pharaoh and King Nebuchadnezzar have started dreaming again, and it will be the Joseph’s and Daniels who have the interpretation, but if they are not released….the riches that are in the dark and secret place in our cities stay hidden.”
|-| “Religion mountain is changing, the DNA in the seeds that having been quietly growing is one of radical lovers.”
|-| “This next generation are warrior lovers, never has the world seen this”
https://www.facebook.com/TheAutralianPropheticCouncil?hc_location=timeline
And here’s another dangerous piece of Babbeled garbage from the same Australian Prophetic Council.
Now you can be an apostle AND a prophet too – you can mix and match or swap from one ‘anointing’ to the other – virtually at will – isn’t God wonderful ???
It saddens me to see you spending your days on the internet writing spiteful words about people you have never met in the name of God. Take the log out of your own eye before trying to remove the speck from your own. If you truly cared about your sisters and brothers you could get the same message across without such a condescending, hateful attitude. It is clear that you don’t love Amanda Wells or Katherine Ruonala. Jesus loves them. I Challenge you to come to Glory City Church and meet them personally. I have seen two deaf people healed in one week at my Church, and approximately 5-10 people get miraculously healed every week. I have seen a physical cloud of Glory descend upon the church twice and I have been there for a year. Take the log out of your eye and stop writing things about people and Churches you don’t know. These are your sisters and Brothers, and they love God with all their hearts and minds and they Love you. I know them personally, and the word Narcissistic would be the last word I would use to describe them. They are as humble as a human can possibly get. Perhaps you should learn a bit from the positive you see in them; if you can see any positive in them at all.
Justin – it’s funny how you assume we have not met these people or know them well.
Jesus has nothing to do with false prophets and says, “Depart from me you lawless ones. I never knew you.”
Stop defending the damned, otherwise Christ will damn you with them. Read Matthew 7; 24.
“They are as humble as a human can possibly get.”
Not according to the Bible.
These liars, who have the audacity to affix God’s holy Name to their unholy blasphemies, are not humble at all.
By the way, it was Moses and Jesus who are as humble as a human can possibly get.
Numbers 12:3: “(Now Moses was a very humble man, more humble than anyone else on the face of the earth.)”
Romans 5:6-8: “You see, at just the right time, when we were still powerless, Christ died for the ungodly. Very rarely will anyone die for a righteous person, though for a good person someone might possibly dare to die. But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us.”
These liars are nowhere near Jesus in character or in any other way.
I was raised in a Christian family, but everything I learned about Christ was purely intellectual. Because of this I went searching for God after leaving home and got into psychedelic drugs because it offered a gateway to the spiritual realm which is what I was desperate to experience. I eventually became addicted to hardcore drugs for two years. The first time I stepped into Glory City Church I was reborn in the spirit and saw God for the first time. I tangibly felt his presence as he removed all my addictions and my need for chemical highs. I felt more bliss than all the drugs I have ever taken in my life, combined, and I tangibly felt him remove all the sin in my life. I was left on the floor in tears for an hour, and it was the single most impactful experience I have ever had and ever will have. When I was reborn, Christ instantly improved my artwork tenfold by giving me the ability to see the world through a different perspective. I also had Scoliosis and it was miraculously healed.
Almost every other person in my church has a similar story. I have seen hundreds of healings, the casting out of demons and radical love transformations from the worst kind of people to the best kind. And after being transformed by Christ, I do the same works as Christ did, and I have brought home many of his lost Children, healed more sick than i can count and cast out more demons than i can count.
“Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.”
Stanwick, do you pray for people and see them healed? Have you cast out demons? I am not assuming that you have not. Im not criticizing you here, I genuinely want to know your personal experience with God and what you feel in your heart when you read this. Do you believe Satan is the one doing the healing, and bringing unbelievers into a relationship with God? Do you think that maybe there is a possibility that God is the one who is healing the bodies, minds and hearts of broken people, and not Satan?
Regardless of whether one or more of the prophets in my church have made mistakes ( I am not admitting I know of any but I will give myself the benefit of doubt), do you honestly not see any good in what my church has done?
I’m not going to argue the legitimacy of my Churches prophets, because I know your heart is hardened to this and you arent going to listen. What I want you to do is to ask yourself is whether or not you think Jesus is proud of the spiteful words you are writing about his children, regardless of whether they are lost or whether they belong to his family. If they are lost, are your words bringing these people closer to Christ, because Jesus loves them so much he died for them.
Do you believe your words are impacting the world for the better? Do you believe that your words are going to bring Katherine closer to God? Or that perhaps your time might be better spent actually talking to people in real life and encouraging them to become more like Christ by being the example Christ wants you to be?
I don’t know you, and even if I did I will not judge you. It’s clear to me though, that you have had some hardships in the past with Churches that would have caused you to be so passionate about pointing out the evil in the world. All I am doing here is trying to persuade you that it is better to shine the light than to point out the darkness and condemn people, because when you shine a light you both point out the darkness and eradicate the darkness at the same time. If you want to change peoples lives, you must do it through love, like Christ did.
Justin, it was depressing in the extreme, to read your post. It is simply more evidence of the level of naiveté of so many who attend Glory City Church who have fallen under the dangerous leadership of people like Ruonala and Wells. Let us take you through a few things.
Firstly, rest assured that we at churchwatch do NOT “spend our days on the internet writing spiteful words about people we have never met in the name of God”. We spend our days doing many things but let us assure you that one of those is NOT idolising false teachers and fake prophets. We do spend some of our time doing exactly what the BIBLE instructs Christians to do in obedience as follows:
Romans 16:17-18 ESV
I appeal to you, brothers, to watch out for those who cause divisions and create obstacles contrary to the doctrine that you have been taught; avoid them. For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.
Ephesians 5:11 ESV
Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them.
Galatians 1:6-9 ESV
I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ. But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed. As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed.
1 John 4:1 ESV
Beloved, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.
1 Timothy 5:20 ESV
As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.
Matthew 7:21-23 ESV
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
There are other verses of course but you surely get the idea from these. It is not clear what you mean by “people we have not met in the name of God”. What makes you assume that the people at churchwatch have not met Ruonala or Wells? It would be unwise for you to assume that none of the people at churchwatch have met either of them, and as for meeting them “in the name of God”, that is another bewildering statement so we are unable to comment on what you mean by meeting people “in the name of God”.
“Take the log out of your own eye before trying to remove the speck from your own”? Again, a bewildering statement and better left for you to ponder yourself as to what you mean. If this is an example of how carefully you read and quote the Bible, perhaps a little more attention is required. Though it must be said you have not mangled God’s word any more than Ruonala and Wells do every time they speak so perhaps this is indicative of a deep rooted problem with the teaching in Glory City church, which incidentally is carried about by women in the case of Ruonala and Wells and the Bible strictly forbids women to teach in church as you will discover if you read for yourself and cease listening to these two fake teachers.
1 Corinthians 14:34-35 ESV
The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says. If there is anything they desire to learn, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church.
1 Corinthians 14:34 ESV
The women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
Timothy 2:12-15 ESV
I do not permit a woman to teach or to exercise authority over a man; rather, she is to remain quiet. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith and love and holiness, with self-control.
There are other verses of which you might avail yourself but we are well aware of Wells and Ruonala’s twisting of God’s word in regard of women teaching and you should make yourself careful to NOT listen to their attempts to persuade people for their own ends but rather read what GOD says about the subject. That is of course, if you choose to serve God and not your idols. In fact, Chris Rosebrough of Fighting For the Faith has reviewed a talk Wells’ did on this very subject and you might be well advised to listen to that. You will find the sermon review on the Fighting for the Faith website. Pastor Chris Rosebrough has been doing apologetics ministry for over a decade. He holds both a Bachelor of Religious Studies & Biblical Languages from Concordia University Irvine and an MBA from Pepperdine University. According to his biography he is currently pursuing a Master of Theological Studies from an American Theological Seminary all of which are bona fide Institutions. Of course this may not as impressive to you as hearing the word from some who claims they “hear voices” or get their instructions from God and angels or through dreams but we at churchwatch are committed to obeying the Bible and not a couple of would-be, self-appointed, narcissists who crave attention at any price and in doing so are not only risking god’s wrath but leading an entire congregation of people down a very dangerous path.
Churchwatch is neither condescending nor hateful towards those preaching from the Bible but will never be accepting of those who preach their own word for their own personal gain. Jesus himself referred to the false prophets and teachers as “vipers”, evil and adulterous, “children of the devil” and “hypocrites” and instructs us to call out these fakes. Would you therefore accuse Jesus of being hateful and condescending? It might be wise to consult your Bible on these matters before rushing to foolishly defend those whom Christ himself told us to rebuke!
We have no argument that Jesus does indeed love Ruonala and Wells. Jesus suffered and died for both of them didn’t He? But knowing Jesus loves us does NOT give us a licence to disobey His instructions and make up own rules and that love will not save them on the Last Day unless they turn from their sin. Only repentance and turning from sin can save people and even though you seem to not realise it, Ruonala and Wells are not exceptions to that truth.
We note that you make mention of healings you claim to have witnessed but not of the gospel of repentance and forgiveness of sins in Jesus Christ being preached. Do you attend church for the purpose of seeing “magic tricks”? Why have you proclaimed supposed healings in your post and yet have failed to mention those (if any) who are being brought to their knees in repentance of their sins and coming to the full knowledge of forgiveness for those sins? When those you are defending refuse to repent of their sins it is hardly surprising then that they are not preaching it and leading others to the true Gospel message. Performing supposed healings will not now, not will it ever, guarantee that those claiming to perform them or those claiming to witness to them will be saved and be granted eternal life as a result. As for seeing physical clouds of glory descend “twice” in your church we can only advise you that such a perceived sighting neither will be the cause of anyone entering into eternal life. It is perhaps time for you to avail yourself of the power of suggestion and the other parlour tricks used by illusionists which have been in existence in the Church since Jesus time and about which He very carefully warns us!
Lastly Justin, these are NOT our sisters and brothers and again you seem to be under the mantle of very erroneous teaching. We would never yoke ourselves to false prophets and false teachers and those who attempt to deceive others into believing in fantasies in order to build up their own power base and for financial gain.
Romans 16:18 ESV
For such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.
Revelation 2:2 ESV
“‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false.
Matthew 24:24 ESV
For false christs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders, so as to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
Deuteronomy 18:20 ESV
But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’
Jeremiah 23:26 ESV
How long shall there be lies in the heart of the prophets who prophesy lies, and who prophesy the deceit of their own heart
As for your statement that Ruonala and Wells love God with all their hearts, neither you Justin, nor any of us at churchwatch can possibly know what is in the hearts of anyone. And so we are instructed to test all things and since Ruonala and Wells operate in direct contrast to Biblical instruction, we wonder how you have come to the conclusion that “they love God with all their hearts”. Jesus condemned many of those who purported to be Holy and to love God by saying “………you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness” (Mat 23:28).
Matthew 7:21-23 ESV
“Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’
2 Corinthians 11:13-15 ESV
For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.
2 Peter 2:1-3 ESV
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you, who will secretly bring in destructive heresies, even denying the Master who bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of them the way of truth will be blasphemed. And in their greed they will exploit you with false words. Their condemnation from long ago is not idle, and their destruction is not asleep. May we respectfully direct you back to the Bible and away from those who are preaching their own gospel and dazzling you will illusions. Of course if you were to request documented medical proof from a CERTIFIED medical practitioner attesting to these “miracle healings”, that would be quite acceptable. After all the Bible instructs to TEST ALL THINGS so you should not mind doing that. And we, at churchwatch, would be open to the presentation of such proof.
Now as to your assertion that Ruonala and Wells love us here at churchwatch…. well it would appear that you have once again made assumptions. We refer you, as just one example to Wells recent post when she was called to repentance over her false claims. (And by the way, she has made manyh false claims and there are yet much more to be revealed which will dispel any illusions you may have that she is a prophet of God!) We ask you just how you determined they love us here at churchwatch given the spiteful and derogatory remarks for example made by Wells in her social media posts in her reference to her having being called out over her stealing of other peoples’ work (i.e. her constant an blatant plagiarism). Just what exactly is your measure of how much these two love us here at churchwatch, Justin?
And finally you claim that “Narcissistic” would be the last word you would use to describe them and that they are “as humble as a person could possibly get”. That would also be the last word we here at church would use, Justin…. and the first ….. and every word in between.
Narcissistic is defined as having or showing an excessive interest in or admiration of oneself and one’s physical appearance. You clearly are not familiar with the posts made and the constant reference to themselves and their own personal anecdotes and stories about themselves when preaching.
A Narcissistic personality is one which is indicted by having an inflated sense of one’s own importance, a deep need for admiration and a lack of empathy for others. All of these are blatantly evident in the talks given by each Ruonala and Wells and if you really familiarised yourself with them both and tested all things as we are instructed by the Bible to do , you would have no trouble in finding a plethora of examples.
Would you be defensive of a leader who lied to those who followed them? Do you consider lying a sin? Do you consider that if such a person were to be proved to have lied many times it might be unwise to consider that they were therefore telling the truth when they make all the other outlandish claims regarding healings, prophecies and visions etc?
Finally, Justin, Wells herself admits to being, and takes pride in being, a “wolf” as evidenced 14th June from her Facebook page.. What self-respecting “Pastor” would ever admit to such a thing given that the Bible warns us about wolves……… so perhaps before you write such accusatory nonsense again you might like to go to your leaders and tell them they need to repent of their abhorrent behaviour!
Matthew 7:15
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
1 Timothy 5:20 ESV
As for those who persist in sin, rebuke them in the presence of all, so that the rest may stand in fear.
Ephesians 5:11 – And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove [them]
“I’m not going to argue the legitimacy of my Churches prophets, because I know your heart is hardened to this and you arent going to listen.”
No you’re not going to argue it because you know you’ll lose because they are false prophets.
“Do you believe that your words are going to bring Katherine closer to God?”
Closer? She’s already not close to God at all. In fact, nothing can move her farther away from God than she already is. The Bible forbids her to be a pastor, by her claiming to be one, she lives in total rebellion towards His Word. And you ignore His Word too.
Look, it wouldn’t matter if 4 angels named Eeny, Meeny, Miny and Moe worshiped with you on Sundays, that doesn’t override 1 Timothy 2:12-13, the Bible does not consider Katherine to be a ‘pastor.’
Finally, I couldn’t care less if you put up a 50-page essay of your ‘supernatural encounters’ on your website, nothing trumps Scripture. Nothing. Especially not your flimsy human emotions gone wild, your silly dream of Heaven, your new age ‘merging consciousness’ theory, and all Glory City Church’s false prophecies.
“do you honestly not see any good in what my church has done?”
You’re asking people to compromise the Word of God for some selfish encounter. Nothing justifies doctrinal error. Nothing trumps Scripture. You have so many heretical teachers visiting Glory City Church it’s astounding anyone still attends:
http://www.glorycitychurch.com.au/visitingministries/
Stanwick, you didn’t answer any of my questions. The closest you got to answering one of them was to state that your words towards Katherine can’t push her any further away than she already is because she is as far as one can be from Christ. The only reason why you would say this is because you must admit that your words are not bringing her closer to Christ. Shouldn’t your goal be to love your enemy, and pray for those that persecute you?
Despite your attitude towards me, I agree with most of what you believe and you probably agree with most of what I believe. I agree that Scripture trumps experience, but all my spiritual experiences co-incide with scripture.
But the way that a person interprets scripture can be different from person to person, and as humans we are prone to error. You are not perfect in this regard, and neither am I. You of all people should know that even experts on intellectually knowing scripture can use it heartlessly to justify whatever behavior they want (just look at Westborough Baptist Church, or better yet, the Pharisees that crucified Jesus).
You should also know that scripture must be taken in its original context, and also be read with the light of the Holy Spirit. I don’t know your stance on this, but I am willing to suspect that you aren’t the type of person to stone your neighbor to death if he works on a Sabbath (otherwise you would be in prison). There is no command from God in the verse from Timothy, and no suggestion that Paul was establishing church policy for all time. Furthermore, if what he said was universal, then why were there female ministers in the Churches of Philippi, Thessalonica, Cenchrae, and Rome? So even if you disagree, please don’t act like your way of seeing the world is the be all and end all of all Biblical Doctrine.
Now, lets get back to the main question that you avoided.
““Very truly I tell you, whoever believes in me will do the works I have been doing, and they will do even greater things than these, because I am going to the Father.””
Let me ask you again. Have you or do you do the works that Christ did? Again, I am not assuming you don’t; I am generally curious as to the relationship you have with our Dad and whether you believe that what Jesus said here was referring to healings, casting out of demons, etc… Do you believe that the healings and other miracles that have lead to the salvation of many in Brisbane were the work of Satan? I never once said that these miracles are proof that the one doing the praying is saved, because that has nothing to do with my question. I am not a self-glorifying miracle worker. I don’t chase miracles; my goal is to love people like Christ did, and if an opportunity arises to pray for someone, I will gladly do so.
And finally, I would like to address the core issue I see here. This is just my point of view, and I apologize if I am mistaken, but from what I see in your words I can tell that you have been hurt by someone or maybe a whole group of people within a Church, and I see you ascribing the same negative feelings you had with that encounter to other people whom you do not know (like me).
You don’t know me. You don’t know the slightest thing about me. Yet here you are judging me, claiming the moral high ground whilst mocking my innermost life-changing experiences with Christ. I am incredibly passionate about Jesus and I would die in a heartbeat for him. You automatically assume that I am a fraud and that all the knowledge and experiences I have had with God are “flimsy human emotions gone wild”, and that the experience of heaven that left me unable to speak for hours was “silly”. There is no Scriptural reasoning behind the loveless, arrogant, condescending things you have just said. The core issue here is that I don’t see ANY love in the way you use your words.
You could have easily said “I find it hard to believe the experiences you claim you had with God” but instead you chose to insult and belittle someone you don’t know. If you are trying to bring people closer to Christ, you are most certainly doing the opposite if you speak to unbelievers this way. I am not offended, I am just shocked at your attitude.
You say your words with bitterness; a bitterness that did not come from me or Katherine. It came from a terrible experience you had, possibly when you were younger. And I am sorry for what happened. But I know that if you give these negative feelings to God you might see things differently. I am totally fine with you spreading your opinions and interpretations of Scripture. I am even fine with you criticizing my church and trying to bring down the prophets. What I am not fine with is the unloving way you speak to people whilst wearing the badge of Christ.
Amanda Profitess Wells performing an exe-fleece-sis…..
|-| “KEY TO YOUR WHOLE LIFE. TITHE. Why is tithes in Malachi plural? The answer is because there are three tithes.”
|-| “WHEN YOU SOW A SEED GIVE AN ASSIGNMENT TO THAT SEED! Every seed has a DNA within it to tell it what to grow!”
|-| “Now when speaking about tithing, remember we are talking about the 3 dimensions of tithing, the WHOLE tithe.”
|-| “Tithing opens the windows of heaven for our land. Remember Jews thought function, Greeks thought form. Greek thinks; open window, a Jew thinks; what does a window do? It lets you see out of it! So when God says ‘I open the windows of Heaven’ He is saying, ‘I will let you see My vision for your life. I will let you see in the heavenlies, what I have been seeing all along.’”
|-| “So to honour God in the FULL tithe, is to open up a vision system, so you can see what He sees. You will go toward what you see! If you thought the same thoughts as Bill Gates for the past 30 years, you would be where he is today! You are what you think! So TITHING opens up a whole new thought process within you.”
http://amandawellscoaching.wordpress.com/2013/06/10/debunking-the-myths-about-tithing-to-tithe-or-not-to-tithe/
http://wellsministries.com.au/site/debunking-the-myths-about-tithing-to-tithe-or-not-to-tithe/
Well, in that case, I’ll just dump some livestock and produce on Amanda’s front door step – she should be happy with such a Biblical ‘tithe’ as espoused in Malachi…
The only people who paid money to the Temple at ‘tithing time’ were the ones who lived too far away for them to give “fresh” produce etcetera – hardly anyone paid their ‘tithes’ in ca$h – but of course, Amanda wouldn’t know what to do with all of the livestock and produce.
Maybe she could open up a market stall and sell it all at a ‘prophet’? And let’s not forget that very specifically, some of the annual tithes were meant for the widows, orphans an those unable to work (disabled people – the lame, blind, the elderly etc…)
So when Amanda starts to give (proportionately, according to her gross income,) to those very worthy causes, we may then consider her to have some knowledge of “tithing’ – until then, I strongly suggest that each of you put your wallets and purses away…
Her kind of ‘tithing’ does not meet the Bible standard, as given clearly in the Old Testament. When the Lord says that “you have robbed me, in tithes and offerings…” the context suggests that the quality of the offerings were way below standard.
There is no suggestion in Malachi 3 that God’s people were with holding cold hard ca$h from the Lord or the Temple, as money was never the main part of ‘tithing’…
In Malachi 3, God is referring to the priests.
Read the beginning of Malachi 2. Warnings are adressed to the priests who were not using the tithes as intended. Mathew 3 is the follow on to that warning.
The priests, not people of Israel, were robbing God.
The same thing happens today, hence the pringles, Kong hees, Yongi Chos etc
I just took a look at the Australian prophetic Council page.
Has anyone checked the drinking water over there recently?
Amanda Wells—September 8 2013:
“As I was praying for the prophetic round table this year..”
There..is a round table? Where is Merlin and sir Laugh-a-lot when you need them.
Amanda wells is really hooked into this 3 thing isn’t she?
She stated elsewhere God does everything by three’s. Beg your Pardon amanda?
All this time i never even noticed!..God made 3 earths, 3 suns, 3 moons, 3 gardens of eden, animals into the ark 3 by 3, 3 stars in the sky, 3 adams, 3 eves’.
How could i possibly have missed this information from the Bible?
That caroline leaf 21 day brain detour..er..detox is sounding pretty good.
NAR self-proclaimed, self-exalting, nonsense.
‘thetruth’…and 3 Amanda Wells! God help the world!
Oh my, there’s 5 minute I’ll never get back. That Amanda Wells speaks so much nonsense that she should consider going into politics and join PUP. She’d give Jackie Lambie a run for her money in the ridiculous ramblings department.
“Then the Lord said to me, “The prophets are prophesying lies in my name. I have not sent them or appointed them or spoken to them. They are prophesying to you false visions, divinations, idolatries and the delusions of their own minds.”
(Jeremiah 14:14)
That is why the false prophets prophecy falsely – because God has not sent them, neither has He given them anything to say. They’re making it up as they go along, and you’re paying for it – in your own hard earned $$$$$.
Regarding this “DNA” nonsense – one church I attended years ago, held a special evening, where there was a meal, followed by a video presentation. Afterwards, an elderly couple were introduced to me.
Later on I would conclude that our ‘friendly chat’ after the event would be pulled apart, and that church growth concepts would be used to assess me (like a piece of meat in the butcher’s display window) as to my suitability for membership, based on my existent/potential “DNA” compatibility with that churches’ culture – vision, goals, aims, “the way we do things” methodologies.
The problem for ministry wannabees like Katherine Ruonala, is that they come to a place where they finally realise that, if they want the global church mandate to be realised in their active lifetime, they have to become proactive about it.
Young believers under her influence often have their plans for study, travel, marriage and family suppressed in favour of *her* plans for those people.
If they want to retain their ‘junior’ ministry position (often known as a “internship”) then they will toe the pastor’s line, and drop everything – immediately – and pack a suitcase and travel nationally or even internationally, as part of her “support” team.
This internship can consist of anything from attending the School of the Supernatural (- after they have paid hundreds or even thousands of dollars – so they can “go to the next level”) to working various behind the scenes jobs (all at no pay) including such mundane things as cleaning toilets, preparing for/cleaning up after major food and fellowship events
Sometimes they will be farmed out to other local churches “for the weekend” and this kind of activity takes the place of regular attendance and involvement with church, family and friends. as young and inexperienced devotees run themselves ragged in order to show their loyalty towards “pastor Katherine’s” hidden agendas.
Once a month, the Glory Gathering host a “Youth Alive” type meeting. Lots of youth from other churches roll up for a great night out – in God. Lots of bright lights, NAR “Jesus Culture” style music and “fire tunnels” are put on via way of entertainment – but no parents or pastors beyond a certain age from other churches, are allowed to attend. “Youth” only.
Much like Hillsong and C3, the Glory Gathering seeks to import the youth from other churches (part way to “sheep stealing”) and also seeks to rake off the money from the rich through it’s regularly run tithing sermons. Of course, ‘pastor’ Katherine seeks to use anything she can from her contemporary churches (Hillsong et al) dotted across the Australian landscape, while maintaining her own unique form of deception.
There’s so much super-spiro talk with these “prophets” that I find it hard to determine whether someone is actually sold out for Jesus or the new age god. Whatever happened to a simple message of the Gospel? There’s so much man-focused nonsense being fed to christians today… The world sees it too.
JAG