We would like to be factual as we can on C3ChurchWatch. If there is any information on C3ChurchWatch that you think is not accurate, please contact firstname.lastname@example.org. All constructive criticisms and scrutiny will be appreciated.
About This Blog
This blog is about monitoring the C3 ‘Church’ movement. The head of this movement is Phil Pringle.
- We will be observing the C3 Movement’s values by critically examining their beliefs.
- We will be examining their teachings by comparing their doctrines, behaviours and methods to the historical texts of the bible.
- We will be learning about Phil Pringle, head of the C3 movement, by exploring his history, knowing his influences, sources and correctly defining his language.
- We will be monitoring the C3 organisation’s vision, events/issues and outcomes and compare them to the standards of the gospel and New Testament church, revealed in the New Testament scriptures.
- We will be testing Phil Pringle’s spirituality by comparing the persons of the trinity in the bible with Pringle’s ‘Godly’ encounters, his Jesus and his prophecies from ‘God’.
We encourage people to view our LoveIs Policy Statement.
About The C3 Organisation & Movement
In 1980, New Zealand born Phil Pringle and his wife Chris, (supposedly) started Christian City Church in Sydney. Their church today is located at Oxford Falls. This blog is designed to watch and monitor C3 Church Oxford Falls and its pastors, specifically Phil Pringle. Today they have many C3 organisations around the world…
Why We Started This Blog
This blog exists solely to warn people of the dangerous C3 Church. The main desire of C3ChurchWatch is to inform people about this dangerous church, those both inside and outside the movement. We ask for your prayers both for us and those caught in the C3 Church Movement.
Email all comments/questions to email@example.com
Glad to come across this site. My family and I left a C3 in Perth nearly 2 years ago, after having been members for just over 2 years, completely fed up with the unbiblical teaching, manipulation for money, hierarchical top-down ‘power and authority’ nonsense that’s spouted as ‘leadership’. We longed to hear the simple Word of God being taught and expounded and, particularly, we did not want our young children to be continually exposed to an environment where a parody of Scriptural teaching and doctrine existed.
Apologies if this is personal, so please do say so if you cannot respond. Are you a former pastor/elder/member in c3, or do you still attend?
anonymity such a wonderful thing…makes it possible to say anything about anyone without fear of reprisal or even whether what is said is true..
Jessica Ping said:
he always quote: show me your friends i will show you your future, now you just look, who is Phil best friend? Kong, avanzini, robb thompson from USA, and i heard a church from Indonesia also, in the bible they re called false prophet, because they only concern about money. they don’t care about souls . CEO DoersTv.com research from 100.000 people from Facebook said they don’t like to watch the Christian TV program because they manipulate, intimidate people to get money by teaching tithes . these all joker teaching mickey mouse theology. so you have to mark them who are his friends. why Phil and all the gang like to come to overseas ? because they get a lot of money as offering, they forget they are called to be servant/ slave not as CEO / BOSS. this is scam or Money politics in the most charismatic church. wake Up church !!!!
” don’t like to watch the Christian TV program because they manipulate, intimidate people to get money by teaching tithes ”
Somebody preaching to the camera and soliciting support.
Viewer donations cover their costs.
Your “love gift” to TBN may help keep Christian TV on the air!
Sally Black said:
I am very concerned about the C3 church in Denpasar Bali Indonesia. Many of my friends of all faiths and spiritual beliefs lost their lives in the Bali bombings. Since then Bali has been very fragile and struggling to maintain a balance and respect for all religions. I am very worried about the aggressive nature of the the C3 missionaries working in Bali, particularly Suzanne Faulkner and Craig Faulkner. They taget the poor and marginalised children of the local Hindus in Denpasar and relentlessly pursue them to change their religion, often without their families support or knowledge. when they reported to C3 headquarters that 120 poor Denpasar children were attending church on Sunday they were ordered to increase tis number to 600.
This must stop before the Hindu community reacts against these people.
Hi you all,
sorry but I have to concern what Ron writes. I visited over a period of 3 years a C3 Church in Germany (Hanau) and discovered exactly the same unbiblical things like a) unbiblical teaching, b) manipulation for money, c) hierarchical top-down ‘power and authority’ nonsense that’s spouted as ‘leadership’.
Trying to get into a dialogue with the pastor about the unbiblical leadership understanding led to being treated like an illoyal reb ell. No feedback or constructive critisism is allowed, people don´t grow in theire faith, it´s the opposit. I don´t find the living Jesus Christ in that church, the local leader Manfred Schwarzkopf sees himself as the Captain and no other thinking or own opinion is accepted. I can´t speek for the global movement but I definetly know that the church in Hanau is a dangerous one which teaches not the whole gospel of Jesus Christ even if they say they would do so. What I found was an organizational and a people cult cult and an absolut reigning authoritarian leadership style that leads people into bandages instead of freedom. No love, no fruits that the bible talks about.
Jesus sets people free and gives them life! His spirit makes us free and does not bind us to an organization or any person. Warnings!: C3 Church Hanau is not the place where you find biblical concepts and the leadership of Jesus Christ, the son of God who is the King of Kings and Lord of Lords who reigns forever! Don´t visit that church!
Danke für Ihren Beitrag. Da Sie die Hanauer-C3-Gemeinde kennen, gehe ich davon aus, dass Sie Deutsch können. Ich habe ähnliche Erfahrungen gemacht. Ich finde es ziemlich schwer, in Hanau eine gute Freikirche zu finden. Welche Gemeinde würden Sie sonst empfehlen? Über einen Tipp würde ich mich freuen. Danke!
Oh no, and now they are coming to Frankfurt with a different name called Hopecity church. I saw them ‘advertising’ in the city centre last Saturday. They try to sell their image as a ‘hype and modern’ church having non conventional Sunday service. I dont understand Why people are so attracted to all the phenomenal teaching and spectacular way of praise and worship? Isn’t it more important just to focus on God’s words and have a truly God-centered worship?
Klavier wrote that he didnt understand the spectactualr way of praise and worship. Hopefully 2 Samuel 6:14 helps you understand a little about extravagant praising. King David was a great example of going crazy for God.
For you beeing a follower of our LORD, there is a lot of the “I”-word found in this article… Better to read a bit in Luke 6,41 before judging others. May GOD bless you
I am a c3 member and am grateful to be in a church, maybe we pray for all Christians and pastor who are reaching souls , and can make a mistake through our human judgement, than watching where they can go wrong, who are you and I to point a finger ? after all we are all human, we are not God , he Is the great judge who judge all, he love the good and the bad, as a c3 member I will not judge you nor judge phil pringle because the fear of the lord is the beginning of Wisdom, and God love and will always uphold any churches including c3 churches, whoever will believe in the name of jesus will be saved. It is finish on the cross.
big red said:
I think the idea isn’t that the “men of God” are human – I think the idea is that the “men of God” aren’t held accountable for their actions.
so sad said:
i had dinner with a c3 pastor a little while ago, in the convo he quoted several comments that showed me that it wasnt the church for me,”we dont want revival here, the people here dont want it, we are after souls………this was his comments, i have one problem with this.it doesnt matter what he wants or what the people want, its what god wants that matters…a yr later i went back to the church as i heard he had a different heart, to my surprise he was talking about the new $50k carpark going in,that the church had done offerings/building fund for , and in his next breath went on about 2 pastors that had just got back from africa and witnessed kids dying as they couldnt get them to hospitals in time as the village didnt have a car, he then asked about the church giving into that in the next few weeks, he wanted $5000…
any man of god would let the church members get muddy feet for a few months and put off the car park for a few months and give money for a car to save kids…….i can only imagine god shaking his head………
Eve Kelman said:
Yes I tend to agree we are not in position to judge only God can do that. I persoanlly think Phil Pringle is doing the best job he can for God.
So you’re not a Christian?
“For who knows a person’s thoughts except the spirit of that person, which is in him? So also no one comprehends the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God. Now we have received not the spirit of the world, but the Spirit who is from God, that we might understand the things freely given us by God. And we impart this in words not taught by human wisdom but taught by the Spirit, interpreting spiritual truths to those who are spiritual.
The natural person does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned. The spiritual person judges all things, but is himself to be judged by no one. “For who has understood the mind of the Lord so as to instruct him?” But we have the mind of Christ.” 1 Corithians 2:11-16
So I am trying to figure out how nutty this C3 church is because I think my nephew is marrying a girl who attends the Toronto C3 church. He is jewish and we are worried that he will become a Jesus nut job, but what I am reading in these comments is that C3 is not following the bible teachings close enough. So am I to believe that he is semi safe and he won’t become a born again jesus freak? Or its all the same shit its that C3 is crazy just not on the crazy level you would like to see it at?
Different people posting here – posting as an ex C3 member. Spent a long time there before the Lord sovereignly moved us on. Now attending a conservative non-pentecostal church and loving the doctrines of grace.
You sound familiar; do I perhaps know you from somewhere else in the blogosphere?
as a follower of Christ, it deeply saddens me to see such a huge effort made by professing Christians to persecute other Christians. This website defines itself not by what it stands for, but only what it opposes. It professes a preference for a “grace message”, but has not one shred of grace in its pages. People are hardly drawn into the Kingdom by tawdry displays of in-fighting and criticism like this…
I agree that we should not spend too much time throwing stones at our Christian brothers & sisters as it is sinful & grieves the heart of God; but at the same time there is a need to be increasingly watchful and discerning about what we are hearing being preached in some of these churches.
Personally, I am deeply concerned about some of the unbiblical teaching I have heard taught at C3 Melb about tithing, prosperity and divine health. Some of what is taught is simply not true, and it upsets me hearing it preached as gospel truth!
For Example: I do not belive that if you do not tithe to the curch, you are stealing from God and therefore under a curse! Rather, I believe in the gospel, and as such I believe the law was done with at the cross and that we are free to be generous as we feel led by the Holy Spirit.
So true !!!
In the old testament times tithing was a 10 percent offering but in the new testament times it became a gift offering. You are not forced to give money and God does not punish you or think of you any less if you don’t.
Also to note that offerings when given could be anything you own, people gave livestock and land.
“[…] it deeply saddens me to see such a huge effort made by professing Christians to persecute other Christians […]”
They are not “other Christians”: they are heretics, they are liars, they are frauds and they are deceivers.
“People are hardly drawn into the Kingdom by tawdry displays of in-fighting and criticism […]”
And how many people do you think are “drawn into the Kingdom” by being told that God wants them to be rich? And how many by being told that they are “cursed” if they don’t “tithe”? And how many by following men rather than God? And of those who are “drawn in”, how many are truly saved, and how many do you think prove to be fruit that remains?
If Phil Pringle and others of his ilk would repent of their arrogance and of preaching a false gospel, then there would be no need for blogs such as this. As things stand, however, this blog does a great service both to God and those who truly belong to Him.
You feel quite strongly about not tithing and lets be real, its easy to see why we wouldn’t want to tithe. However Tithing is separate to offering and something taught throughout the bible. There is no reason for us to abolish tithing? In fact New testament teaching follows the act of tithes.
I firmly believe in the power of God to speak through his word and if the bible says not to tithe than show me where otherwise why should we teach against a God given principle?
This website has great referencing to scripture about tithing and everyone should read if they doubt tithing being relevant to New Testament believers.
On an extra note:
This site fighting the church is not something I feel God would want us to spend our energy on. Yes 100% we should question and be aware for satan is cunning and a snake. However God is the only Judge, so let him judge! we are not to cast the first stone, point the finger or any other number of things Jesus taught. Hopefully these verses help you understand my perspective, and I pray that you will be completely open to God so that you can be powerful for growing his kingdom and not bringing down people.
Beloved, never avenge yourselves, but leave it to the wrath of God, for it is written, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay, says the Lord.”
A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back.
Know this, my beloved brothers: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God.
“There is no peace,” says the Lord, “for the wicked.”
Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you.
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.
Some great verses and maybe everyone on this site will figure out what our intentions are and should be.
ALSO REAL IMPORTANT:
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.
God has put C3 and all mega churches into authority, an interesting thought
Do you go to a C3, Hillsong or AOG fellowship?
Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God.”
Funny you say that – Hillsong and C3 aren’t. These cults think they are above the authorities going by the way they behave and speak.
Joshua S. said:
>>as a follower of Christ, it deeply saddens me to see such a huge effort made by professing Christians to persecute other Christians.
“Persecute” other Christians? You have to be joking. I bet you haven’t the slightest idea of real persecution; otherwise you wouldn’t say that.
We’re not the ones causing divisions. Phil Pringle is, by his harmful teaching and graceless leadership, and the evidence is documented. In Scripture we’re told to “watch out for those who cause divisions [because] such persons do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites” (Romans 16:17).
So you are saying Phil doesn’t serve the Lord yet he has lead 2 million people world-wide to Christ? And how are you serving christ by telling people that christians are false teaches? Let God judge and criticise, not you. He see’s everything, YOU DON’T!
Is it only 2 million? I thought it was 200 million. Or is it 20 million?
Anyway, if you’d just like to come down to the front, Jesus wants to make you rich, successful, happy, and dumb (especially dumb). There’s no need to repent; just show us the money – that’s it, cough up the cash and God will forgive (remember that miracles cost extra).
“And how are you serving christ by telling people that christians are false teaches?”
We’re not, sweetheart: we’re telling people that false teachers are not Christians. (Perhaps you missed comprehension when you went to primary school).
Joshua S. said:
>>Let God judge and criticise, not you.
Aren’t you criticizing me? Stop being ironic. You appear as a fool. I don’t think you understand the issues. Get some head-knowledge, read some theology, and think a little harder before you post uninformed and asinine non-arguments. (And don’t tell me I’m being unloving, because that’s a non-argument too.)
>>We’re not, sweetheart: we’re telling people that false teachers are not Christians. (Perhaps you missed comprehension when you went to primary school).<<
Zorro…Can you feel the love tonight! (Lion King Music playing in the background)
Wow. Your ”love for doctrine” has blinded you from the most important love you can give…”loving your neighbor”. Correcting is biblical. Insulting someone is not.
“Correcting is biblical. Insulting someone is not.”
Well I’m sorry vb, but the constant stream of twaddle being peddled by addle-brained know-nothing numpties such as FHL is simply too tiresome to go unremarked.
If FHL doesn’t care for being insulted, she should keep quiet (she’s actually a classic object lesson with respect to the very sensible prohibition of women presuming to “teach” in church).
Joshua S. said:
>>Your ”love for doctrine” has blinded you from the most important love you can give…”loving your neighbor”.
Pfft. As if those were mutually exclusive.
I would urge anyone here to find a church without any fault at all. There are things being taught in many churches that are off the rails, not just pentecostal but in the church of christ, baptist, presbyterian and many others.
As I have attended most churches through my life I can easily spot the faults no matter where I go.
The most perfectly accurate statement on this website.
I’m sure Joshua S would agree with the following….
“A gospel which is after men will be welcomed by men; but the true gospel of the grace of God needs a divine operation upon the heart and mind to make a man willing to receive into his utmost soul such a distasteful truth. My dear Brethren, do not try to make it tasteful to carnal minds. Hide not the offense of the cross, lest you make it of none effect.” – C.H. Spurgeon
The “teaching” at C3 is certainly tasteful to carnal minds. Division comes when those who want to go deeper, are accused of being divisive. A good example of that would be Ed Young Jnr’s rant against Reformed theology recently.
Kings with their kingdoms…
Joshua S. said:
Ah, “The Spurgeon-ator!” Of course I agree. These new men have not only changed the medium, they’ve changed the message (the gospel), and that’s unacceptable. They’re also anti-knowledge and anti-doctrine. That’s bad for Christianity.
Amen to that!
I fully understand what you are saying and for the most part agree. However what I see is an earnest contending for the Word of God. It is the Word of Grace as well as the doctrine of Gods truth that brings real and total healing and prosperity in the life of the believer. I was a former member of a small sect of sincerely incorrect christians who did manipulate and control. It is a very thin line.
Nick Tompson said:
Well said Stu, you are spot on.
Well said Stu. While some may have concern over the C3 Church, let’s not forget the plank in our eyes before we remove the speck in someone else’s eye. As a pastor, whenever I disagree with a particular teaching from a certain pastor or church, I would teach and caution the church but without making a direct reference to name and church concerned. Why can’t we just focus on teaching believers the pure Word without mud-slinging. We are called to guard the doctrines of the church, but let’s do it with grace so that we are above reproach; and also to avoid stumbling non-believers.
“While some may have concern over the C3 Church, […]”
People don’t have “concern”, RB, they have contempt for a high-handed attempt to hijack the Gospel. Heresy is heresy; there’s no way to sugar-coat the fact.
“[…] let’s not forget the plank in our eyes before we remove the speck in someone else’s eye.”
Speak for yourself RB; there’s no plank in my eye.
“As a pastor, whenever I disagree with a particular teaching from a certain pastor or church, I would teach and caution the church but without making a direct reference to name and church concerned.”
As a pastor, you should perhaps note that Jesus did not tip-toe around the sensibilities of the Pharisees when he was publicly condemning them, nor did Paul hold back from giving God’s enemies an open rebuke when it was called for.
“Why can’t we just focus on teaching believers the pure Word […]”
That’s exactly what we would ask of C3 – why can’t they repent and preach the truth?
“[…] without mud-slinging.”
Actually, it’s C3 who muddy the waters by preaching a false gospel.
“We are called to guard the doctrines of the church, but let’s do it with grace so that we are above reproach […]”
Let’s do it in whatever way is most effective.
“[…] and also to avoid stumbling non-believers.”
It is in fact “churches” like C3 that stumble non-believers – why do you suppose that so many non-Christians see the church as being full of greedy money grubbers?
That deals with the substance of your post with the exception of your opening statement:
“Well said Stu.”
Which is, of course, your own opinion, and one to which you are entirely welcome.
Zorro I’m very curious to know what type of church you attend??
Todd M said:
Having spent 3 years at a C3 church in Atlanta and never once having a personal conversation with Dean Sweetman, I started to realize something was going on. We left and never looked back however we know many folks still there and it is sad to see them suffer alone when there is a Christ who cares about them. Prosperity preaching is alluring. I say kudos to this site for shedding a light on this faux church. When Jesus overturned the temple did he worry about his “grace message”?
Gary MacDougall said:
Basically the tithing scam works similar to Catholic indulgences. Both work on fear. With tithes the christian is afraid that God will curse them. If there is a hiccup in their financial situation then Malachi is used to condemn them. The believer is then manipulated to get into a worse situation by giving more money to the church. I can understand non-believers always saying “awww the church always wants your money”. On this issue the heathen are basically right! C3 is more interested in numbers and the money of the pew warming sheeple than they care about their souls.
1. Their is NO “church” that is religious denominationalism…let’s get rid of that “church” right from the start…Upon this rock I get that I will build my ekklesia.
2. Tithes – Malachi as quoted was to the Priests on account of them robbing GOD.
There is no OLD or NEW Testament/Covenant record of tithes being in the form of money though money was in use in those periods. Only those who lived from the land tithed on their crops or livestock. The tithe was only on each tenth so if you had 95 you tithed on the 90. If you were other than a farmer of land or livestock you were not required to tithe……therefore not everyone was required to tithe.
3. COVENANT – we are under THE NEW..The Old was FULFILLED in Christ.
Neither Jesus ever required or even mentioned anything about tithing.
Let us remember what Jesus told the man who asked Him what else can I do to inherit the eternal life? Jesus told him; go and sell everything that you own and GIVE IT TO THE POOR. My question is why didn’t He said; and give it to the synagogue (Church, its equivalent within the Christian world).
It is worthwhile also to read the chapters 24 and 25 of the book of Matthew and see on what basis people will be welcomed into His Kingdom, or will be rejected and condemned when He returns to this earth, this time not to die again, but to judge every one of us.
Why Jesus didn’t even mentioned about tithes, on the contrary He clearly made emphasis about helping or not helping the needy, period.
So, my question to Phil Pringle, Johnny Cho, Kong Hee and any other false teachers, and peddlers of wrong doctrines around the world is: to which side do they think Jesus is going to send or direct them to go.
I would like, that at least one of the above mentioned peddlers of wrong doctrines give us an answer
You need to do two things, Dib:
1) Start reading your Bible.
2) Start listening to the Holy Spirit, rather than to men.
You won’t make any spiritual progress at all until you do.
Btw I’ve noticed your debate is very spirited, so please know that I’m not attacking your other points about c3. It just seems to me that any belief in the doctrine of submission takes us further away from the Church/New Covenant that Jesus died for.
I’ve been reading a lot of pentecostal church survivor stories online. It seems that much damage has been done by false preachers who said similar things to your statement, and much resentment is directed at churches that reinforce outdated notions of gender.
IMHO It would be a shame if other righteous Godly men & women shut down to your opinions because of that problematic statement.
Dib, it comes down to whether it’s better to be united in a lie, or divided by the truth. A lot of Christians prefer the former while more and more are becoming persuaded by the latter.
There were a lot of contentions in the early church as well… A casual reading of Acts will show that sects of Pharisee believers were insisting on Gentiles being circumcised and obeying the law of Moses. Many of Paul’s writings were polemics against this. Simply put, “Christian unity” is somewhat of a myth. Wasn’t Jesus put to death by the church of his day?
Wasn’t Jesus SUPPOSED to be put to death by the church of his day?
Yeah, I will agree with that. But now, ask yourself – did that come about because of his adherence to “Christian unity” or because of an outspoken belief in truth and a willingness to call leaders out on hypocrisy?
From Daniel Neades “Better Than Sacrifice” post this morning……
“Jesus prayed for the unity of all believers:
I do not pray for these [my disciples] alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one, and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me. John 17:20–23
Notice that immediately prior to these words, Christ prayed:
Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. As You sent Me into the world, I also have sent them into the world. And for their sakes I sanctify Myself, that they also may be sanctified by the truth. John 17:17–19
The context of Jesus’ prayer for the unity of those who would believe in Him is the sanctifying truth of God’s word – the very word that the Apostles subsequently delivered to the Church, and through which we now believe in Christ.
Through that word, we are being made ‘perfect in one’ – the word of God itself creates Christian unity. And through that uniting and perfecting word, we know that the Father sent His Son to die in our place, that the Father loves us for the sake of His Son and puts His righteousness to our account. Through God’s word, those who believe it have confidence that:
having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ, through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. Romans 5:1–2
God’s word, then, is essential to our Christian faith. We hunger for sound doctrine, because sound doctrine is nothing other than that word, faithfully delivered.
The Christian life depends upon sound doctrine. But is it harmful to Christian unity to rebuke false doctrine and separate from those who wilfully assist in its propagation? Some seem to think so. Yet Christians are nowhere in Scripture called to unite around false doctrine or practice, but to reject error and instead speak the truth in love to one another. We are to ‘contend earnestly for the faith which as once for all delivered to the saints’ (Jude 3).
Christian unity originates with the unity of the Spirit that we have in Christ through His word. Paul writes:
I, therefore, the prisoner of the Lord, beseech you to walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, with all lowliness and gentleness, with longsuffering, bearing with one another in love, endeavoring to keep the unity of the Spirit in the bond of peace. There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. Ephesians 4:1–6
Notice that, even as he exhorts the Ephesians to keep the unity of the Spirit, he roots that unity in ‘one body and one Spirit’, ‘one hope of your calling’, ‘one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all’. These are the things of which sound doctrine speaks – ‘the faith which was once for all delivered to the saints’.
It is immediately obvious that false doctrine – that which is contrary to the faith once delivered – is necessarily destructive of Christian unity, for it seeks to lure people away after other bodies, other spirits, other hopes, other lords, other baptisms, other gods.
Paul goes on to tie the ‘unity of faith’ with ‘the knowledge of the Son of God’, explaining how both develop as God’s appointed ministers of the word equip the ‘saints for the work of the ministry’:
And He Himself gave some to be apostles, some prophets, some evangelists, and some pastors and teachers, or the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ Ephesians 4:11–12
We have the word of Christ delivered through the Apostles and prophets of old. That same word, once delivered, is even now proclaimed, explained and applied by evangelists, pastor and teachers. These ministers of the word are charged with equipping the flock by that word until:
we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; Ephesians 4:13
God has charged them with this task so that:
we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ—from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. Ephesians 4:14–16
In other words, Christian unity develops as sound teaching overcomes the winds of false doctrine, and Christians mature together into Christ by the speaking of truth (and, contextually, the true doctrine of God’s word) in love.
Sound doctrine gives life. False doctrine, though, is the enemy of true Christian unity, the enemy of the Faith, and the enemy of our souls. Unity of faith cannot arise where false doctrine is tolerated.
A little (bad) leaven leavens the whole lump, making it unfit for consumption (Matt. 16:5–12; 1 Cor. 5.6; Gal 5:9). Likewise, water from even the purest well is rendered deadly by even a tiny amount of poison. So it is with false doctrine. That is why those who understand these things are ‘quick to argue theology’.
Hold fast the pattern of sound words which you have heard from me, in faith and love which are in Christ Jesus. That good thing which was committed to you, keep by the Holy Spirit who dwells in us. 2 Timothy 1:13–14
No, no, no Dib: you need to read with your eyes *open* and listen with your ears *unstopped*.
“I mean, what are deaf people supposed to do?”
Deaf people are meant to go to C3 and get healed 😉
Gary MacDougall said:
“Out of the abundance of the heart the mouth speaketh” what does Phil talk about all the time and what does he twist scripture to refer to?
Jesus said you cannot serve God and mammon. There are a lot of ministers in the world today not serving God! In fact they are serving their own greed and covetousness.
You can make the scriptures mean anything. Do you realise that the bibkle even talks of cricket?…Peter stood up with the eleven and was bowled!” errr um ‘bold’!
Colour me Skeptical said:
Dib – Braille system is a method used by people who are visually impaired to read and write, you, on the other hand, are a person who is intellectually impaired with serious limitations in adjusting to a normal social environment outside the coercive emotional persuasion of a certain socialogical/theological cult – but hey!!! you go along now and give you life savings to your leader’s superannuation fund if it makes you happy – we are more concerned about the name of Christ being blasphemed among the nations because of your malignant apostate movement…….
Colour Me Skeptical said:
Now ya talkin’…!!!!
Colour me Skeptical said:
@Gary – I think Dib should do the opposite of Peter and sit down now because he is ‘stumped’….
@ Gary – did you ever hear Phil Pringle suggest that two women died as a result of opposing his ministry (in NZ)? We heard him make that claim in the early years of CCC (now C3).
@Berean – when I was at School of Creative Arts, Phil told a story about a local council member who apparently vehemently opposed the approval for the current Oxford Falls campus. Phil drew the story out, claiming that this guy said that he would rather a tyre burning dumb be put there than Phil’s CCC church.
Phil then wrapped the story up by stating that this councillor died in a “mysterious car crash.” His moral to the story was that you don’t touch the Lord’s anointed. Phil was saying that the guy died as a result of opposing the C3 movement. Unbelievable but true.
I meant to type “dump” not “dumb.” Also, Phil implied from his story that the council member died within a very short space of time after opposing him.
When you think about it, it’s a pretty outrageous thing to think, let alone voice in a public setting. The council members family would have a real case of slander if someone had an audio recording of this.
I think I heard that too. It might be in one of his books. Do you have a year he gave that story?
Dr Zorro said:
Any attempt to manipulate others by putting into them the fear of physical harm is clearly cultic.
This sort of unconscionable behaviour is consistent with other symptoms displayed by those in authority at C3OF, and it is very disturbing.
@Dib – “he’s just stating the facts…” WHAT facts? That someone who opposed Pringle happened to die? Really, Christians of the Phil Pringle variety do this a lot. It’s called a FALSE POSITIVE. Look it up. Pigeons have been observed to do this so it seems you’re in appropriate company then Dibs?
The “facts” are that people die in car accidents all the time. It obviously (if it did actually happen!) just so happened to occur when Phil was in the process of applying for council approval.
The “fact” that no names are mentioned by Phil only introduces further skepticism and eye-brow raising. If there is no way of confirming the story, should it be believed?
I’m obviously moving way too fast for you Dibs!? I was addressing your comment “he’s just stating the facts.” So… let me go a bit slower for you, your intellect is obviously incapable of keeping up:
A – How is it a “fact” when no verifiable names have been mentioned and the story cannot be tracked or traced? Do we have minutes from council meetings? If so, where are they? Pringle may well be making the whole story up as an exercise in prejudicing his audience. That is not an improbable scenario.
B – If this were true, (that’s an IF Dibs) then shouldn’t the family of the council member who passed away be alerted that Phil is using this man’s death as a springboard for cultist authoritarianism?
This thing is wrong on so many levels and here you are like an arrogant prick trying to prick holes in semantics? Do you have no conscience or compassion for others? Clearly not.
What can I say Dibs? I’m just “stating the facts.”
But in all seriousness, I cannot comprehend someone defending Phil in this instance. What if that was your brother, uncle, cousin or Dad Phil was using? Didn’t your Jesus say whatever we do to the “least of these” we have done unto him? Just a thought.
I heard this story aswell.
Gary MacDougall said:
Bill said “Phil then wrapped the story up by stating that this councillor died in a “mysterious car crash.”
If I was one of the investigators I would turn attention onto Phil.
He proves his lunacy by making a statement like that. He has even implicated himself in murder!
The now deceased has land.
Phil wants land.
Phil boasts that deceased dies in “mysterious car crash.”
Lady Diana also died in a “mysterious car crash.”
@ Bill – The way we heard him tell the story is similar, a “subtle” implication that those who were opposing Phil were actually opposing God Himself. And the stories about Warringah Council? Heard plenty, though not that particular one.
This reminds me of the “Steven Furtick Prays A Company Down” clip……watch to the end to hear how “powerful” Steven Furtick is.
Dr Zorro said:
The difference is that Shane Warne had the good sense to retire, whereas Phil is well past his use-by date and showing no signs of being aware of that fact.
Thank you dibs for voicing your opinions and views on C3ChurchWatch. Although many may disagree with your comments, thank you for your time and energy to correspond with those who have issues with the C3 church movement.
Gary MacDougall said:
” If this were true, (that’s an IF Dibs) then shouldn’t the family of the council member who passed away be alerted that Phil is using this man’s death as a springboard for cultist authoritarianism?”
I think Bill has nailed it perfectly. The pertinent part is ” a springboard for cultist authoritarianism?”
When you think about this deeply it’s very meaningful.
Dibs, you would do well to take this comment of Bills seriously.
Your right it’s pretty disgusting to speak about another one of Gods creations that way. Basically dehumanizing a soul because he’s not pro c3
Pingback: Don’t Oppose Pringle Or God Might Kill You? « C3 Church Watch
Gary MacDougall said:
Phil is a bit presumptuous. He is claiming he is ‘anointed’.However he preaches deception and a false gospel. It doesn’t add up.
Dr Zorro said:
Oh, it adds up all right, Gary.
You just need to understand exactly what sort of anointing it is, and where it comes from …
James Iz said:
Prophet Pastor StevenFurtick…I hope you prayed for all those people from the 77 stores who just lost their jobs.
Btw I left C3 too after I was verbally abused by staff and the leadership did nothing. Very unsound place.
Danny C (@DanielCrowter) said:
Brother, I don’t think we should be afraid to say it like it is. Some people are clearly bothered about the unbiblical teachings of c3. We shouldnt be so worried about what other ppl think but primarliy what God thinks. Paul and Jesus himself were brutally bold. plz Let these guys be likewise.
We must stay alert at all times. I was at c3 college & heard a talk that
Made out you could die if you oppose Phil Pringles movement. That is not acceptable. It’s manipulation & fear based preaching. Very very dangerous.
I was around C3 or simply CCC as it was then in the late 80s/early 90s, back when it was in a warehouse in brookvale. Ever wondered how the oxford falls set up got paid for..ask anyone who was there in the 90s about the Building Fund *shudders*.
I’ve read a few posts on this blog with references to books, sermons and conferences in the last ten years or so and really nothing much has changed, it was all happening back then as well!
Would love to talk to you about your experience at C3 in earlier years. Can you please email us at: C3ChurchWatch@hotmail.com?
Just want to say something important at this point – there are those who blog here believing that certain topics should be honestly qualified to do justice to the blog.
One topic would be the pastoral “manse”.
Having been there, I can say it’s a nice home, in a nice suburb but not the best house in the best suburb. It’s not a home gained through “sinister” means, and I have no problem saying the financial control of C3 is under a qualified board. Now that may raise hackles but rest assured, some things are well done there.
Just what is a “qualified board”? When I attended CCC as it was known years ago, the pastors always preached that the “books were open to anyone, anytime to inspect. However, when anyone asked to see them, they were immediately accused of being up to no good and castigated severely for not trusting the leadership (and usually became the subject, by way of example, of the following week’s sermon)! The “boards” of most of these large “commercial’ churches are carefully selected “insiders” who can be “trusted” to do what is required. When, and if, elections are held, they are carefully manipulated so only those “chosen” ones can stand for election! My CCC Pastor had a more than generous salary, but used his Church Credit card to make personal purchases which should have come from his own salary. No one DARED to question him such was the “power” he held over his sycophantic followers. Are the books audited by an outside accountant or their own “inside church accountant”? And I know my CCC Pastor’s house was better than most because I, personally, was “ordered” to work on it (for no charge of course) to prove my subservience to God!!!!! So PLEASE take care before you begin assuring anybody that these “boards” are “qualified” or even know what really goes on most of the time.
@ Gary – I wouldn’t say anything on this blog that cannot be verified by facts. Which is why I can say certain things about “pastoral manses”.
It’s important to remember the standard we expect of church leaders should be one we apply to ourselves.
A lot of people give willingly to organisations like C3 – I should know, we were willing partners in the endeavour to grow the “vision” and it was only by God’s grace our eyes were opened. My prayer is that all, including senior pastors, come to that gracious knowledge through His sovereign intervention.
What is important for the integrity of this blog is that speculation is not the norm.
As much as I have HUGE concerns with C3 as an organization (I can’t call it a church), and its inability to present the true gospel of Christ and Him crucified, I don’t believe it exists to “manipulate/scam money out of the sheeple using pyschology and mind control techniques”.
It certainly appears that way to outsiders, I’m sure, but those caught up in it (including the pastors) are as much victims of believing a false gospel as those who have realised and left.
If the truth be told, I have a huge compassion for those still caught up in the “juggernaut” of the vision that Phil Pringle truly believes is from God. Do I believe it will implode? I don’t know but one thing is for sure, God, in His sovereignty, is allowing it to continue at this time.
And one by one, then a trickle then perhaps a stream of people will be led out by Him into greener, more nourishing pastures. That is the God who truly saves and doesn’t leave His own unattended.
Let’s keep the main thing (the gospel), the main thing. Speculation leads to gossip, then gossip can lead to slander and I’m quite sure that’s not the aim of this blog.
We don’t want people coming here to be quickly turned off by “facts” that can’t be verified.
@ Doug – would my answer be to your satisfaction? Some people are blessed with inhertitances from parents, enabling them to buy property, others maybe not so blessed.
As a sovereign grace believer, my view of God is that He doesn’t have to TRY to do anything. God is never taken by surprise, God is sovereign – subject to none, influenced by none, absolutely independant. Doing what he pleases, as He pleases, everything caused or allowed by Him for His own perfect purposes.
Romans 9:19 “You will say to me then, ‘why does He still find fault? For who has resisted His will”
That same “free will”, like ours, is still limited by their/our sin nature.
I have total confidence that whatever is happening at C3 is under His divine jurisdiction and judgement for a false gospel if they do not repent.
Psalm 103:19 ” The Lord has established His throne in the heavens and His sovereignty rules over all
As sad as the Jim Jones cult and its fruit was, God allows humanity to commit sin for His own reasons and to fulfill His purposes.
Could He have prevented it? Of course, but He chose to let the events unfold exactly as they did. And I guarantee, though we may not understand this side of eternity, His glory will be revealed even through the events of that dreadful cult.
Regarding C3, every day I see more and more things that disturb me, having access to various FB/Twitter/Instagram/blogs etc.
But I can’t get angry any more, I’ve noticed my anger so easily turn to bitterness (it had stopped being a “righteous” anger). So I’m trying to shift away (it’s not easy) from that focus to a point where my prayer is simply that God has mercy on them, as He has on me, and opens their eyes to their error.
For what it’s worth, I do believe that the adverse internet publicity C3 has been getting , via programs like “Fighting For The Faith” etc has got their attention.
They have never had to contend with that kind of bad publicity before, not from within the Christian community.
They would be even more concerned if they realised just how vast a reach, and how well-respected, within that Christian blogosphere, their “critiquers” are!
I have a comment above in moderation – that’s one answer. But I believe the real issue is God’s sovereignty and man’s responsibility. Let’s start with Jesus’ crucifixion…
Acts 2;23 “….this Man, delivered over by THE PREDETERMINED PLAN AND FOREKNOWLEDGE OF GOD….”
Acts 4:27-28 “………..both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together TO DO WHATEVER YOUR HAND AND YOUR PURPOSE PREDESTINED TO OCCUR”
1 Peter 2:8 “…for they stumble because they were disobedient to the word, AND TO THIS DOOM THEY WERE ALSO APPOINTED”
So we have evil men ordained by God to crucify Jesus, as testified by the Bible, though you and I may not understand it, we still have to submit to what the Bible teaches about God’s providential hand in all things.
Ephesians 1:11 “…also we have obtained an inheritance, having been PREDESTINED ACCORDING TO HIS PURPOSE WHO WORKS ALL THINGS AFTER THE COUNSEL OF HIS WILL…”
Even Job concludes with this prayer “I know You can do all things, AND THAT NO PURPOSE OF YOURS CAN BE TWARTED..”
But we have a very real, very terrible Satan, but even He bound to do only what God allows. ( Martin Luther “Even the devil is God’s devil.”)
So we come to Jonestown and it’s awful consequences. Jim Jones used fear and paranoia to bring his followers close to him, while becoming increasingly more paranoid himself. Those followers are still responsible for following a man rather than Christ.
Yet God allowed it to happen, His hands were/are not tied. That’s the belief that I grew into, as a Christian (at C3), that God’s hands are tied unless we do such and such, that He can do nothing unless in response to prayer etc etc. A cosmic “quid pro quo” and it’s simply not biblical. Can I blame C3 for my warped view of God or do I have to take personal responsibilty? Obviously the latter.
God did allow the Holocaust, and Hitler, and Jim Jones and earthquakes and tsunamis and the awful list goes on. We try to apply our finite understanding to His infinite wisdom in allowing all this. We simply fail to recognise the incalculable difference between God and us.
We only have to read Revelations to see the final vindication of all things. In the meantime, we pray that His Will be done and trust Him even if we don’t like the results.
Gary MacDougall said:
“Can I blame C3 for my warped view of God or do I have to take personal responsibilty? Obviously the latter.”
I would suggestblame both.
Yes Jesus and all the events surrounding his life were prearranged. They were prophesied throughout the Bible.
Other situations are generalities eg. “take heed that no man deceives you” applies to Jones and Pringle and his flock fleecers.
Man’s will plays a big part.
@ Gary – some things about me. I’m a monergistic, complementarian, Calvinist. 🙂
@ Gary – some things about me. I’m a monergistic, complementarian Calvinist.
Gary macDougall said:
Berean I don’t believe it’s a good idea to put labels on ourselves because we can all sorts of fancy dog tags that divide us into different camps.The early church had that problem with followers of Paul or Apollus.Why can’t we all just be followers of Jesus?
Anyway, one thing is for sure…we are not followers of Pringle!
@ Gary – by definition, those titles I give myself are biblical. I’m a sovereign grace believer, who gives all glory to God for my salvation, that I bring nothing to the table except my sin and finally that though gifts for men and women may overlap, there are biblically designated ones that do not.
One of the MAJOR problems at C3 is allowing women in the pulpit – the reasons why not? Well demonstrated by Christine Pringle.
1 Timothy 2:12-12 “For I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and the Eve.”
“One of the MAJOR problems at C3 is allowing women in the pulpit – the reasons why not? Well demonstrated by Christine Pringle.
1 Timothy 2:12-12 “For I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and the Eve.””
Please go watch a bunch of slave movies, like 12 Years a Slave or Amazing Grace. Lots of scripture peppered throughout that ‘justified’ slavery.
How times change, yet they don’t.
Problematic statements that are inherently sexist (even if backed up by scripture written in a very different social context) detract any other valid points about false teachers because much rage against false preachers is BECAUSE they generally preach harmful, subjagating doctrines like submission and, well, overall sexism.
Not all Christians share your particular viewpoint on gender in the church. Please be mindful of that, especially given that women who’ve been harmed at churches like c3 are reading this blog & may be especially sensitive to being shouted down by a man.
“Not all Christians share your particular viewpoint on gender in the church.”
Zorro didn’t offer his view. He exposed that C3 rejects God’s Word on the grounds that God says this about women teaching in the church:
1 Timothy 2:12-12 “For I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and the Eve.”
“How times change, yet they don’t.”
Time’s can change for the good and times can change for the worse. We can all see that times are changing for the worse with the rise of liberalism. The church on the other hand has not changed for the last 2000 years. Why does it have to change now?
By saying this:
“One of the MAJOR problems at C3 is allowing women in the pulpit – the reasons why not? Well demonstrated by Christine Pringle”
followed by this”copy n paste:
1 Timothy 2:12-12 “For I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and the Eve.”
Zorro HAS certainly revealed his worldview on women in the church. Your view too, is apparent in this statement (caps emphasis mine in the absence of bold letters, don’t mean to be shouty):
“He exposed that C3 REJECTS GOD’S WORD on the grounds that God says this about women teaching in the church”.
You are both writing from the perspective that a woman’s spiritual discernment & intellectually faculties can’t be given the same weight one would give a man’s because God Says So. Therefore, no authority, no preaching. Woman be quiet!
A youtube video exist of Ed Young Snr YELLING at a woman in his church the most misogynistic drivel I have ever spouted in a church, because she whispered a question to her husband. He YELLED scriptures and things like LISTEN TO YOUR HUSBAND.
THAT IS false teaching.
Paul is not God. Paul’s writing were also used to justify slavery. Do we still condone that practice? No. Should the church continue to look for hypocrisy within its own house and keep fighting for social justice? YES!
I hope that as more opinions & experiences are shared, seekers of truth continue to question the many lies that operate within church theology. For without such critical examination of ‘truths’accepted in religion, this relevant blog would not exist. You questioned the status quo and found it very wanting at CCC, despite scripture being used to justify dodgy practices too.
“I hope that as more opinions & experiences are shared, seekers of truth continue to question the many lies that operate within church theology.”
“Seekers of truth”. We didn’t ask you to start spreading liberalilst views on our site. Please refrain from doing so. If you are truly a seeker of truth and want to hear God speak, hear what God is saying through Paul:
1 Timothy 2:12-12 “For I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet. For it was Adam who was first created, and the Eve.”
It is not our opinion getting in the way. It is not Paul getting in the way. It’s you. It is not our fault if you choose not to listen to God on this issue. His Word makes it clear and He explains through the Apostle Pauls writings why a woman is not to teach or excercise authority over men.
Why do refuse to listen to God on this issue?
We will restate that we hold to the doctrine of complimentarianism. A woman is not be belittled or marginalised in the Christian community. Both men and women are important in serving out God’s purposes ini His assembly.
^ While we don’t mind you commenting Gary, can you please act more mature on C3 Church Watch? We like to promote intelligent discussion.
Thank you for support.
I came across this blog while searching for online commentary about C3 services and their music. I live in an inner city suburb, metres from a C3 church. I am interested to know what if, anything, is taught to the congretations about good witness in the communities and neighbourhoods they decsend on several times a week? Nothing in their general attitude or behaviour constitutes good witness or basic consideration for their neighbours (with the exception of a couple of people who have been pleasant, polite requests to do something about the music have been met with nothing but hostility)
Hi MM, I was one of the naighbors and I visited C3 for 2 years i my inner city area, I came from a sordid back ground and fell into some old behaviours whilst attending C3, I was asked to leave and tolt how to correct myself befor I was allowed to return. I never heard Jesus in any of the conversations I had when I was asked to leave by the assistant pastor nor was there any follow up from them during my time away, It seems all I heard from them is they were a church for the lost and money, money money. Things like God is waiting to see what you bring so He (God) can deliver and many other twisted scriptures to raise money for a new building. I went back in to an atmophere of suspission and doubt, not hearing anything about Jesus and forgiveness. So in answer to you question MM they don’t reach out and they seem to be about the mother church C3 Oxfordfalls. I for 1 can’t believe I’m posting this or reading what I have.
Gary macDougall said:
MM You will not change their music because loud music is part of their modus operandii. You have made a good point …they blast the neighbourhood with music annoying the neighbours and then preach “love your neighbour”! If you research this site you will see that nothing adds up!
Gary thanks for taking the time to respond. Hoping for a civil neighbourly outcome where everyone’s happy…but i find this church particularly unapproachable. Very different to the neighbourhood churches I grew up with, which really were part of the local neighbourhood and community. I know my comment was a little outside the objectives and purpose of this blog so I appreciate the feedback.
The only thing worse than noisy neighbours is when the offenders are a “church”.
Gary is quite correct; C3 is a cult, and couldn’t care less about you or what you think – unless you have money that you can bring to their table, you don’t count at all.
C3 boasts that they are “contemporary”, which in a sense is true: they chase after the things of this world – their reward is in this life – and their worldly desires are matched by worldly attitudes and worldly methods. They are therefore pompous, arrogant, and self-centred, as reflected in their unwarranted hostility towards you: their understanding is that they are right and you are just some ignorant loser.
Needless to say, the fruit of C3 is not a reflection of the attitudes and behaviour that should accompany the true Gospel of Jesus Christ. The time will come when they will receive harsh judgement for their hardness of heart.
I have witnessed the psychological damage this cult has had on now ex-members. It’s sickening to say the least. I also hate the fact that they teach creationism (also just as sickening in my opinion).
Gary and Zorro- thank you. You are both correct. I have either been told first hand or heard second hand from other “complainants” things such as “we are a church we can do what we like” or a simple “f- off”….i grew up going to church, going to an anglican school so I am aware of what a community church should be. And quite frankly, i know right from wrong, respect versus disrespect. I do know that some other people in our area have been really disrespectful to the church which i also disagree with. Its a strange place. After reading through this blog, i feel for the people who are blinded. You cant buy miracles (and for the church goers reading my post- that opinion comes from watching videos of your leader, not the entries and comments posted here) I already felt irate every sunday when our day was disturbed, i felt more irate when i read on philpringle.com that he loves the local church- local church means local community, not setting up in a building somewhere, bringing people in from somewhere else, in a local neighbourhood. Not once have we ever heard from or been invited or been acknowledged by the church on our doorstep. Its not a local church, its a building.
Guys im sorry for my outburst, i know this is quite outside the objectives of this blog. But i’ve lived where I live longer than the church has been there so I am not a new person coming in and objecting to a local institution. I also have a reasonably solid religious background and am community-minded. I am happy for a church to be across the road. What makes me so frustrated is the attitude and ongoing struggle. But I appreciate your time and responses. Maybe my posts offer you a fresh view of what its like to live near a branch of C3 (as opposed to being a current or ex participant).
Jake- thank you
There are things that can be done; here are a few suggestions:
Write letters to the local council and your local member of parliament expressing your concerns.
Contact the media and say you are having problems with a cult’s anti-social behaviour (see if you can get a few cameras on the building’s doorstep one Sunday morning; cults hate media exposure the way that dark hates the light).
If they own the building, ask if they are fully compliant with all government regulations; for example rules relating to fire safety. Do a little digging.
If they don’t own the building, discuss the problem with their landlord (perhaps call him when a service is in progress and let him listen to the noise over the phone).
From time to time, call the senior “pastor” to discuss the situation with him (you could do this at a time that might be convenient for you, but not necessarily for him).
Get a petition circulated amongst local residents. Take photocopies and put them on the windscreens of all those who attend the offending C3. (Something along the lines of “We, the undersigned, would like you to know that we find your behaviour and attitudes offensive, and that as a result you are most unwelcome here”).
Zorro- thank you for your advice (I couldnt work out if/how to reply to your message below!). I hope it doesnt come to those solutions. My intention when I first posted here was to see if there was any “talk” (for want of a better word) within the church about their presence and impact on the neighbourhoods they are a part of. If there was positive talk, then I thought I could approach from that angle- but it appears not. Your suggestions are actually not unreasonable. In fact I came across media articles where disgruntled residents had taken similar action to what you outlined (albeit not against C3 churches) as I was looking online the night I found this blog. I dont think I have it in me to do some of things you suggest (but thats just me- it took me a long long time to even post on this blog!) A petition as a starting point is not a bad idea.
Thank you again.
I have not attended a C3 church although I have heard him speak on occasion. I know a few who attends. Neither am I fan of Kong Hee or his wife. Agreed, his message flavours with the more contemporary than the traditional doctrinal teaching. However, I am quite surprised that well meaning people actually have set up a website and appointed themselves to be “watchmen” on C3!! Who appointed you? I’m sure C3 have their own flaws, and PP coud have said some of those silly things but at least his church is making a positive impact in the community (even ift means offening a few in the neighborhood). For every one of you disgruntled ex member, there are probably many more who have found personal and partial growth in C3. Nobody held a gun to your head and said “give”. If you don’t believe in tithing, no one is forcing you to give, and I hope that you are till experiencing abundance in or live. If you prefer poverty instead, thats fine ok, according to your faith. If you don’t like the teaching, leave, as many of you have, but don’t criticize thse who choose to go there because they want to. It is such arrogance on your part to deem them ‘heretic’, ‘cult’ , ‘deception’ etc. Many people there genuinely love and serve God, who are you to judge their sincerity and faith? So ths church doesn’t turn you on, big deal. It works for any others, and it is such arrogance on your part to determine that YOUR expression of faith is better, more spiritual, more sound, more sincere etc. Guess who is being the Pharisee now? Be careful that you don’t become the exact object you are criticizing. Reading ths blog is starting to reveal the very same attitudes that people are accusing C3 of! If you think you are much better, let’s see how your own ministry adds up and what type of fruit it’s producing. It’s is very easy to find fault with anyone, especially when they are very public figures, so your “research” here is of limited value. I suggest that some of you guys should stop whinging (they didnt vist me…boo hoo…) about your past hurts get on with serving God more productively than ths alleged “watch”. Would you rather have someone on the street doing drugs, in a club/pub getting drunk or be in a church, including one as imperfect as C3, even if it means having “rock msic”. At least they are reaching out to the youth. Yes, C3 is not perfect and I sure has many flaws, and certainly not for those who prefer a more “sedate” atmosphere. But a “watch” like this is but time waster, has litte edification value, and appears to be a pity party for those who have had previous grievances. Move on, guys.
“At least they are reaching out to the youth.”
Kit in reply to some of your comments- which I assume are in reference to some of mine- as stated Im from an inner city neighbourhood. Drunks, prostitutes and drug takers are the norm- in fact they operate from the doorstep of the church except on sundays and I once warned a parishioner who was clearing the garden bed to be careful. But these other people keep to themselves and rarely disturb anyone. Unlike the church. And yes “rock music” as you labelled it, which it isnt, is offensive. I am yet to see the work done in my local community and would gladly welcome it, support it and reconsider my position and opinions if it was evident. You have said you dont attend C3, so I am not sure from what experience you are making some of your comments. If you take the time to read through some of the blog posts, you may find, like I have, that they are researched and considered.
One last comment for Kit- I am the only person who has made comment about the church and their “rock music” or not visiting (which by the way is not what I said at all!) and I have acknowledged that my comments are outside of the objectives of this blog. So dont criticise the others based on my own post please.
agree 100%,active member and love it!
“[…] his message flavours [sic] with the more contemporary than the traditional doctrinal teaching.”
We can see your problem right there: doctrinal teaching is not “traditional”, it is *truth*.
Your whole argument is based on your own ignorance: you start out at a point where you are deceived, and then proceed rapidly from bad to worse as a result of your spiritual dullness. The blindness that you display, and the fatuity of the fallacious reasoning that naturally follows, make you an object lesson regarding C3 apologists.
Hi Kit,(please read for your own safety)
” I am quite surprised that well meaning people actually have set up a website and appointed themselves to be “watchmen” on C3! ”
The Bible uses the role of a watchman to describe the work of a prophet among God’s people. The role of a watchman is vital to a full understanding of the work of God in the end time.
God said to the prophet Ezekiel, “Son of man, I have made you a watchman for the house of Israel; therefore hear a word from My mouth, and give them warning from Me” (Ezekiel 3:17).
C3 Church Watch( as far as to my knowledge )is a mere blogspot exposing false teaching.So far i have not become acquainted with anyone from C3 Church Watch that claims to be an actual PROPHET(“Watchman”),or an Elijah or an Ezekiel for that matter.Clearly you are in error because you do not know the scripture.
” For every one of you disgruntled ex member, there are probably many more who have found personal and partial growth in C3. ”
Nobody will find will find any growth in C3 whatsoever for righteousness does not come from C3.Righteousness comes from GOD and is by faith in JESUS CHRIST.Once again you have neglected scripture.
The scripture says,
Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. (Galatians 2:16)
” Nobody held a gun to your head and said “give”. If you don’t believe in tithing, no one is forcing you to give, and I hope that you are till experiencing abundance in or live. If you prefer poverty instead, thats fine ok, according to your faith. ”
If you do believe in tithing please note that it is part of the law that CHRIST abolished.
The scripture says,(Colossians 2)
13When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, 14having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. 15And having disarmed the powers and authorities, he made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them by the cross.
( for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified. (Galatians 2:16) )
” Guess who is being the Pharisee now? ”
The Pharisee was bound up by the law, mate.C3 Church Watch does promote LAW BONDAGE,therefore your comment is proven to be out of order.
” I suggest that some of you guys should stop whinging (they didnt vist me…boo hoo…) about your past hurts get on with serving God more productively than ths alleged “watch”. ”
Do you REALLY know what you are talking about or are you just making it up in your head as you go.Do you REALLY know that people are thinking(they didnt vist me…boo hoo…)this, or are you just making it up in your head.Are you suggesting that people from C3 Church Watch are not serving God productively or are you just judging without reason or cause,and with audacious(inventive)allegations.
” Would you rather have someone on the street doing drugs, in a club/pub getting drunk or be in a church, including one as imperfect as C3, even if it means having “rock msic” ”
One of my old CHRISTIAN CITY CHURCH pastors was a well known “DRINKER”and the other(a youth pastor)became a “LESBIAN”.
And now i leave you with one last scripture,(James 1)
5 If any of you is deficient in wisdom, let him ask of the giving God [Who gives] to everyone liberally and ungrudgingly, without reproaching or faultfinding, and it will be given him.
6 Only it must be in faith that he asks with no wavering (no hesitating, no doubting). For the one who wavers (hesitates, doubts) is like the billowing surge out at sea that is blown hither and thither and tossed by the wind.
7 For truly, let not such a person imagine that he will receive anything [he asks for] from the Lord,
8 [For being as he is] a man of two minds (hesitating, dubious, irresolute), [he is] unstable and unreliable and uncertain about everything [he thinks, feels, decides].
Like I said,rant and rave all you want, I guess we will have to agree to disagree. I am not offended by your actions (although some of you are using very strong language). You don’t know me and you accuse me of making things up in head, deceived, ignorant, spiritual dullness etc. “Statement of love”? Hard to believe reading the comments on this page. And on all the verses quoted on judgement, you conveniently leave out matt 7:3. A “gift of judgment”? Is there such a thing in the Bible? I wonder who is justifying their own behavior here! Who said tithing was meant to be practiced as a “law” today? I didn’t. Abraham tithed to Melchizadek under grace, before the law was established. You give a tenth because you want to (give cheerfully), not because you have to. But clearly you lot think if giving as giving to man, not God because people should “bring change not tithe”. Cos if you really understood what it means to bring an offering to God…. And finally, like as though it has been only a C3 leader that has been gay or drunk! Seriously, you guys need to grow up and stop being so bitter. Be careful! Heb 12:15. I do know what a biblical watchman is, thank you very much for the basic bible lesson. But the website is called C3 watch! So it is clearly obsessed with C3’s faults ( and yes, they do have them, probably more glaringly than other obscure ministries). just one last stir, I am not a C3 apologist, I don’t even partake in any of their ministries. Anyway, it’s been fun. Throw in a bit of C3 plus point and watch the C4 (explosive) go off and the pack tear it apart! All the best with your alleged self appointed “ministry” and try not to hurt anyone yourselves, huh?
” Who said tithing was meant to be practiced as a “law” today? I didn’t. Abraham tithed to Melchizadek under grace, before the law was established. You give a tenth because you want to (give cheerfully), not because you have to. But clearly you lot think if giving as giving to man, not God because people should “bring change not tithe”. ”
I did not say you stated that tithing was meant to be practiced as a law today.I said,”If you do believe in tithing…… “But thank you for suggesting that you want to practice this law cheerfully!And Abraham tithed to melchizedek before the law was established-sure thing!And MOSES was also circumcised before the entire law was established,but as we know from the book of Galatians,circumcision is obselete in the new covenant.If circumcision wich oblegates a man to obey the entire law is now obselete,then how can the rest of the law that was against us and that stood apposed to us be contemporary?
As I read through various comments by and the responses of these so called “watchers of C3”, I am amazed at the sheer rudeness, arrogance and presumption of these “watchers”. Clearly “out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaks”. You go on and on about how “graceless” PP is, and your own responses to some of the comments below demonstrate the very lack of grace and almost a Pharasiac attitude that only your views are right. Clearly these responses themselves are not “seasoned with grace”. (Col 4:6) . And clearly there is a very big deal here is about money. People are not as naive as you think, if they chose to give, let me assure you few would be doing so because it’s “law” or because they want to get rich. Some people actually do give cheerfully and in faith, and simply because they want to contribute to a cause, mission or activity that they want to support. Some actually do give as an act of worship and who are you to mock that? Don’t know why you go on and on about law vs grace, no one is really confused about that, I don’t think, if you read their comments carefully. Nobody ever said that you MUST give because its a law. If you really want to be useful, why not create a model that really works and lets see the fruits of it: salvation, discipleship, joy, sacrifice, worship etc. instead, all I can see here is bitterness, anger, pride. The bottom line is that many people who attend C3 (not me, ok?!) will testify how thier lives have been healed, changed , delivered, transformed by thir relationship with Jesus (not PP, let’s get that clear up front). You can’t argue with a personal testimony or a miracle in ones own life. Again, it’s all about Jesus, like it, or not, as imperfect as the vessel may be the C3 church might be. Tearing it down is easy, You haven’t shown us a better working model yourselves, so maybe you should just zip it.
Kit – you keep reassuring the readers here that you do not attend C3 (“not me! Ok!?”) but you clearly have some stakeholding in the church, whether its directly or indirectly via close friends and relatives, by the voracity of your comments. As far as I can see, everyone else has been quite forthcoming about their relationship with this Church.
No, honestly. I do not attend this church, listen to their music, pod cast etc. in the past 10 years, maybe I seen one of thier tv shows. I only know one person who attends it (recently). My comments is just that I don’t like the spirit to which comments are being made about it, or for that matter, any other church that is clearly making an impact (+ve or -ve depending on your views).
How is it clearly making an impact?
I agree with you Kit on some of your points. I do think this site is severe, and could have been done in such a way that the message C3 Churchwatch wants to convey is put out there but without the venom. Keeping articles etc that explain C3 Churchwatch’s biblical positions on certain doctrines and their application to C3 is fine, but the continual comments and article and after article seems obsessive compulsive and poisonous to all, especially to the authors.
Having been a member of C3 for 25 years, but no longer there , I truly understand the author’s points of view and C3 certainly have distorted certain doctrines (in my opinion). Kit, C3 do tell you if your don’t tithe you are under a curse and will be robbed, so giving cannot possibly be cheerful, you do it out of obligation, sometimes cheerfully, but at the same time there is fear. That is not right. There are many young vulnerable people also who give, give, give, sacrifice everything, to the point of not owning their own homes etc, whilst the leadership do own their own homes.
I guess what I’m trying to say, is there must be a good balance, with this website and with C3.
Agree with you. If the money aspect doesn’t make you feel good ( I’ve never heard giving positioned that strongly before) then I would leave too. But apart fom that, I hope you still found a good presence of God, fellowship, some other teaching that heled you grow while you were there. 25 years is a long time to be unhappy about something. Anyway, where ever you are, hope you find yourself in a home church that you are happy with and growing! 🙂
Hey Glittergirl, as someone who’s been attending a C3 for 12 years, I completely agree with this. I can’t get into slamming it so much and agree there is some good teaching (in ours at least, by most preachers), but you are a spot on with the money, and even after a short sojourn away from C3 a few years ago, I’m still trying to unlearn the twisted money doctrine. Yes I believe you will be blessed when you give to GOD, but I’ve been there, done that, read Phil’s book, agreed with all they money doctrine, and given under fear for many years, until I got set free. And it’s an awesome feeling to give cheerfully, and not tithe under compulsion. God bless!
As a former staff member of Oxford Falls, I can assure you that independent sites like this are needed, despite the language & snark that its readers use.
We woud like to inform you that it is hard to navigate what comments we should allow through because there are many hurting people who want to be heard. Sadly we cannot allow their comments as they are pretty crass. We hope the comment section can be a place for people to share their pains and wounds and we are starting to see the environment starting to foster.
From what we are seeing, Zorro seem to be defending C3 Church Watch. He seems to come across as defending those who are confused and not quite sure what to think anymore with all the false Christian claims.
Someone pointed out Zorro was a like a dad defending his children, sitting the critics down at the dining room table and drilling their comments to powder. It was an interesting image to have of Zorro.
That does not mean he gets everything right. We monitor his comments too and he knows it.
I do not attend C3 CHURCH either.As a matter of fact I am not currently involved in any church or denomination.Perhaps you could direct me to the most appropriate one?
Why are you not in any church? There are so many around to visit and be committed to, even if you don’t want to go anywhere near C3.
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Not exactly the answer to my question.Do you mean that i should just go to any church that claims to be a church?
If there is one thing I have learned while being a C3 member, is to live life focused on christ. Anything that pulls your eyes away from God does not glorify him. Arguing about a churches theology on money is not keeping your eyes on christ. If less time was spent on debating theology, and more time was spent on teaching others about salvation, thousands would be saved. There is only one theology that matters, that jesus christ died for our sins so that we may experience eternal life with him.
“If there is one thing I have learned while being a C3 member, is to live life focused on christ.”
If you learned that (that’s and “if”), then you did so not because of C3, but in spite of it.
“Anything that pulls your eyes away from God does not glorify him.”
That’s true. Things like putting “pastors” on a pedestal, worshipping success, and making an idol of money do not glorify God; that is to say, C3 does not glorify God.
“Arguing about a churches theology on money is not keeping your eyes on christ.”
Preaching a false gospel as C3 does is not keeping your eyes on Christ. Also, no on is “arguing” about C3 “theology” regarding money, they are pointing out the truth – that C3 holds to heretical beliefs in that regard.
“If less time was spent on debating theology, and more time was spent on teaching others about salvation, thousands would be saved.”
Actually, if C3 stopped preaching and teaching heresy, then many could be saved.
I’m sorry you feel that way.
Agree will calebfrench 100%. I guess Zorro wants to leave his mask on. Removing it might help him have a wider vsion.
You keep on tithing then, Kit.
I’m sure that you will buy lots of wonderful blessings from God – even salvation for your relatives – just as C3 pastors claim you can.
I have not found yet one church out there that is 100% correct on everything they say and do, if you find one then let me know??
Also if you claim your on the absolute correct path then you are also fooling yourself without a doubt??
Also zorro there is nothing wrong with tithing as long as the person knows and understands exactly what tithing is. It is not 10% of what you earn but it is of any amount but only as a free will offering that you can choose whether or not to give.
I don’t see what all this fuss is about. All the things you complain about from C3 are not unique traits of cults. They are the danger of religion in general. Religion, by it’s nature, is a lie that was created to peacefully subjugate the masses, and prevent them from thinking in a way that would cause them to challenge authority. Any thing negative you say about C3, could just as well be applied to ALL religion.
Ta941, that is typed just like an atheist who has no wish to understand why some Christians are so concerned about false teachings by some so-called church ”leaders”. For something probably more on your wavelength – Think of the theory of evolution. Imagine some scientist claiming that Dawkins has it all wrong by quoting many isolated/discredited science journals and Dawkin’s books out-of-context and making lots of money doing so. Will atheists/scientismists keep their silence or will they seek to show everyone willing to listen his many falsehoods and poor evidence? In the process they discover he has Mickey Mouse qualifications and even got poor grades in that – will they keep silent about that as well?
C3churchwatch is doing true Christians a wonderful service by exposing this very ugly and deceitful ”church” for what it is – Amway marketing/ Ponzi schemes delivered in the language of Christianese (several bible verses and Christian phrases to make it sound ”spiritual” enough to fool naive bible-illiterate Christians). ”Give us your money and THEN God will bless you…” Other Christian apologists have shown Pringle’s messages are so bad he even has musicians playing in the background to keep that ”atmosphere” *translation* maintain altered consciousness (induced via repetitive and over emotional songs and beat) to stop people from thinking clearly enough for themselves.
C3churchwatch, keep up the great work and make sure you pray for a lot of spiritual protection and wisdom from God. Like others have said the more well-known this website becomes the more C3 supporters will try to stop the truth from coming out. It is a very painful process for some to learn that their church ”leader” is so wrong, please continue to present all the factual evidence as kindly as possible so their faith is not damaged permanently.
Does anybody know what happened to Chris O’Brien? He just vanished around 2004. What as the truth there?
Chris O’Brien, as far as anyone knows, moved to Darwin with his family and no longer sings. There were issues that caused him to lose his job, issues that hurt not only his career there but others as well. Though these issues were serious enough to cause him to lose his job, they were not “unforgivable”. The treatment of his wife and family, by the church, is another story.
There was no “moral failure”, the problems involved attitude towards other musos, song copyrights and financial gain (enough said there). People can speculate about this but it’s better to leave it alone.
Sad to think that someone like Pat Mesiti can be forgiven and restored for adultery yet that same forgiveness is not offered for an offense not on that scale – especially when the family (though not guilty of anything) asked for it.
A message for C3 & Pringle is this from Galations1:6,7…”I marvel that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel. Which is not another,but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.”
If Paul had the internet, I’m sure as he traveled by boat or donkey, he would have his 3G stick in his Notepad and going after the gospel perverters.
Can I ask when this website was started and why? Was there a specific moment you thought to start this up, a specific thing C3 did?
It has been really bizarre reading through all these comments.
I have been attending a C3 church for a couple of years and love it. I have met the most amazing people and have grown as a Christian through all experiences there. I know it is a big movement and I thought there would be some people out there who don’t like it, but the venom put through these comments is astonishing.
I grew up in a small church, some would say a community church. It was like a community, but I was really spiritually hurt there and the opinions of the youth group I attended were not wanted. Years later my family moved and I started going to a local C3.
I tithe for a number of reasons, but C3 never made me. I want people to be able to find Christ like me and the programs put on, really bring people into the church. I can’t speak for every C3 but with ours they do. And my 10%, though not much, is my continual giving into that. I don’t give a lot when I have a lot and then nothing if i have less. I want a continual flow of my finances that I have been blessed with to go to others. Is it just a money problem you all have?
I have met people with their lives changed through meeting Christ like I’m sure you all have, but the ones I have met have been in C3. I have met people who don’t like the way C3 does things and have moved on, but never so bitter, although our church is growing so there can’t be an equal amount on either side.
The Pastors are great people, they don’t all have flashy cars or houses. I guess some do, but they are not Ferrari’s or anything, plus they have jobs as well as being a pastor and they worked hard to get where they are.
What C3 churches have you been to that has caused you so much offence? I don’t know how personal you guys get on here about naming names, though I guess you’d have to put some information on otherwise you are just anonymous screen names with an opinion.
I am really interested to hear this stuff.
I was You, several years ago.
Then I worked for CCC Oxford Falls. The mothership!
It’s hard to explain the process of going from complete, sincere involvement to jaded wariness without losing anonymity. I also don’t want any trolls running rampant with examples out of context. So, no details sorry. I will say just enough to piss off both sides of the debate:
– I don’t *hate* C3 BUT…
– For all their apparent good intentions & supposed accountability, money IS open to abuse, in both large & small ways. Some financial things there disturbed me. Remember that many people tithe despite their poverty (in fact it’s encouraged! Be that woman with the pennies!) and this is one reason why churches ought to be both super-vigilant AND independently audited by a non-christian, no bullshit 3rd party.
– It’s homophobic. Any church that hosts ‘pray the gay away’ preachers like Sy Rogers ought to be called out for it.
– An above commentator will be pleased to know that despite ‘allowing’ women to preach, they very rarely do so on Sundays, aside from the odd Wife of a Celebrity Pastor. Sexism is alive & well at C3. Unlike blokes, female bible college students won’t get much chance to preach outside of connect groups post school. Unless you go on a mission trip holiday & preach overseas. Or marry a guy earmarked for a future church ‘plant’. Which leads me to…
-It’s not a ‘plant’. It’s a franchise. Call it what it is.
– NEPOTISM. Oh my goodness.
I could go on writing but this quote encapsulates why over time I changed my tune about C3:
“My Spidey-sense is tingling!” – Spiderman
Please define what you mean homophobic. C3 Oxford falls shows no sign of homophobia to it’s gay members. They’ve been careful navigating those waters.
IMHO, I believe that gay-conversion preaching and therapy is damaging to both the individuals whose sexuality is in question & to the greater Christian church. It alienates people from Jesus & is a form of spiritual abuse, Which = homophobia.
Wow, there ARE actually gay people there! You’d never know it. The silence is telling.
I’ve known wonderful people at ccc, and very well-meaning pastors. I’m sure they’re very careful, nobody wants a distressed or suicidal young man or woman in the office. However, the very action of hosting false preachers is to legitimize their message and condescends to the very people Jesus reached out to – the marginalized, no matter the original intent.
I know, a lot of other Christians have different viewpoints to mine,…please resist the sermon, guys. I’ve read the scriptures. I’ve formed my opinions/personal beliefs about this and those beliefs are just as valid as yours.
“I know, a lot of other Christians have different viewpoints to mine,…”
We don’t have a viewpoint. God makes the issues clear about women in leadership and the issues of homosexuality. No where are we taught to fear or hate homosexuals. That is wrong. However, it is clear that God has an issue with the homosexual lifestyle just like he does with any other form of sinful lifestyle.
“I’ve read the scriptures. I’ve formed my opinions/personal beliefs about this and those beliefs are just as valid as yours.”
Sorry to be blunt and to the point. Your opinion is invalid and you are in flat out rebellion against and his clear teachings on this issue.
You are creating a God that suits the god of this culture and that is dangerous. God calls it idolatry. Please repent and submit to the clear teachings of Christ and his church.
“What C3 churches have you been to that has caused you so much offence?”
We’ve attended and have been raised by the mother church of the movement (C3 Church Oxford Falls). However, the continual reports we’ve heard of the disgusting behaviour of ministers and leaders in other C3 churches was worth starting this site. Good people have been destroyed financially, sexually and spiritually.
C3 targets nice people. We never wanted to start this site. A number of us have been programmed by C3 to think that this was unGodly to do… until I started reading the bible for myself.
When you start seeing how much Pringle and other C3 leaders LIE about God and His Word, you can’t shake the fact that they are heaping judgment on themselves.
The issue here is not offence. I don’t know one person who doesn’t get offended by people (even you seem to be offended enough to comment against offense). But just like everyone else, we choose to let offense go. We know that it is not a good thing to hold onto. But this does not change the facts that Pringle continually lies about what God says in his Word and continually makes God out to be a liar in his false prophecies.
Pringle’s teaching, methods and behaviour only shipwrecks peoples faith. This site, if anything, is motivated by truth AND LOVE. This means when you have leaders like Phil Pringle conning people to buy miracles, buy grace and even salvation – truth itself is offended and love is sold to make money. And Jesus (the Truth, (John 14:6)), says to men like Pringle that they, “do not serve our Lord Christ, but their own appetites, and by smooth talk and flattery they deceive the hearts of the naive.”
This site has accurately demonstrated Pringle’s negligence in faithfully preaching the gospel and God’s Word accurately. And according to God’s Word, Pringle is disqualified (2 Timothy 3:1-9).
This is the truth. Please demonstrate likewise using the bible. Please engage with us on this level. Test what we say against Gods Word. This is our standard. Why? Because when we let the bible do the judging – we’re not. God is. We can honestly say that God is offended by the blasphemy that is being spread in his name in the C3 movement. In fact, God himself relates false teachings that come out of C3 to gangrene (2 Timothy 2:17).
At C3 Church Watch we are addressing this train-wreck movement as best we can. This movement is so disturbing you can’t look away. It needs to be addressed. Christians need to pull their family and friends out of this dangerous movement before Christians destroy their own faith.
If you think we are bitter, twisted and demonically possessed – then you’ve been listening to too much Pringle and do not understand your bible. Please – we would love your prayer for wisdom and Godly decision making. We would love you to pray for Pringle and the C3 movement. We would love you to pray for the leadership to repent and return to accurately handling God’s Word. We would love to see Pringle repent so we can embrace him and call him a Christian brother.
So please understand – we hate the lies, immorality and blasphemy that emerge from the movement. But we don’t hate people their. We consider them to be dangerous. But we don’t wish destruction on them. Can you honestly say our desire is to remain offended for the sake of offense and see C3 destroyed?
We choose to show love in a very black-and-white way but do not rejoice in evil. We do not rejoice in all the stuff we report. We are in fact sad for people like Phil Pringle and Kong Hee. We are praying about this. We pray that goodness comes out of this. Please earnestly see what we are doing.
Bless you Livelove.
People should stop and take a look at themselves before throwing stones at others. I’m not defending C3 but would God be happy with you and your crew attacking others??
You claim not to attack but yet the words on this site are doing just that.
Anything would seem like an attack if we are exposing lies that C3 make against the Word of God. By your standard God would not be happy with Jesus if Jesus was to apply your concept of judgment.
Churchwatcher I do know who you are and I know people that know you and what you stand for.
Unless you can claim you are perfect and without fault then playing the judge is not a good thing as these false teachers in all churches only have one true judge.
“I’m not defending C3 […]”
And then in the very next breath he states:
“Churchwatcher I do know who you are and I know people that know you […]”
So it’s quite clear, Alan, that you are remarkably well informed for someone who claims he is “not defending C3” – in fact, I suspect that you are very close to the action.
Would you care to reveal what affiliation you have with C3, and exactly what your motive is for commenting here, if not to defend a bunch of scripture-twisting hypocrites whose consciences have been seared with the hottest of irons? (Do you know what “transparent” means, by any chance?)
“You claim not to attack but yet the words on this site are doing just that.”
So tell us, Alan – does Phil Pringle attack people? Does he have those who have the temerity to disagree with him turfed out of C3? Does he mock his critics, whilst ignoring the substance of their arguments? Does he malign and belittle those who choose to worship God in manner that he does not consider to be “bright and relevant” (could you tell us please, Alan: exactly who was it who made Phil Pringle the yardstick by which God’s people should be measured?)
Have you given money to Phil Pringle, Alan? Why don’t you ask him if you can have a quick squiz at C3’s accounts, and see how you get on. What is it that C3 has to hide with regards to money? Did it ever occur to you to ask who is underwriting the comfortable lifestyle of C3OF “pastors”, who drive very expensive European cars? (Phil Pringle used to laugh off rumours that he drove a powder blue Mercedes, which is quite ironic seeing that these days he is getting around in a very nice BMW).
“Unless you can claim you are perfect and without fault then playing the judge is not a good thing […]”
That’s very interesting logic, Alan.
Lets play hypotheticals: if you were in the shoes of someone like Roland Poon, and you became aware that your “pastor” Kong Hee had diverted $24,000,000 from your churches building fund to underwrite his wife’s lavish lifestyle and Hollywood fantasies, would you refrain from dobbing him in because you yourself had once received a parking ticket?
I have no affiliation with any C3/AOG or any charismatic/pentecostal church. I grew up in the Church Of Christ in Australia from the age 10. I dedicated my life to God at the age of 17 back in the 80s.
Now as for you mentioning Kong Hee and the rest of his crew, they all got what they deserved. If anyone in church was to do the same I would never hesitate to dob them in even if it was a friend of mine.
Now as for all churches they should remove the charity tag and make them pay taxes like everyone else. Hillsong abuses the tax system and filter their music through their charity arm so they don’t pay tax, did you know that??
Now as for my motive for posting here is the fact too many websites pop up that turn into nothing but full of hate even though it wasn’t their intention to do so.
One such site is http://straighttalkmin.org/index.html
Moriah ministries a group I also know have a lot of misinformation on many churches.
Andrew Mackinnon said:
“Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple.”
Romans 16:17-18, New Testament, The Bible (NKJV)
Phil Pringle teaches that if somebody offends you, the onus is on you to “get over it”. The Bible teaches that if somebody offends you and they don’t repent, avoid them.
Phil Pringle teaches that if somebody offends you, the onus is on you to forgive them. But the Bible teaches something completely different. The Bible teaches that if they don’t repent, there is absolutely no requirement to forgive them.
“Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, ‘I repent’, you shall forgive him.”
Luke 17:3-4, New Testament, The Bible (NKJV)
“Moreover if your brother sins against you, go and tell him his fault between you and him alone. If he hears you, you have gained your brother. But if he will not hear, take with you one or two more, that ‘by the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.’ And if he refuses even to hear the church, let him be to you like a heathen and a tax collector.”
Matthew 18:15-17, New Testament, The Bible (NKJV)
The church has drifted into the false teaching over the past several years of saying that if somebody offends you (ie. sins against you), you have a problem. However the Bible clearly teaches that if somebody offends you (ie. sins against you), they have a problem which could result in their estrangement from the church.
It’s pretty simple but thanks to ineffective leadership in many churches, this isn’t taught in many churches. In fact, the church has deteriorated in Australia over the past fifteen years as a result of ineffective leadership. (In Phil Pringle’s case, I don’t believe he is even a Christian and I have more than enough evidence to support that contention which this website has disallowed me from referencing.) It’s cringeworthy to see ineffective leaders like Phil Pringle attempt to hold on to their control over the church of Jesus Christ while the church languishes. Phil Pringle would say, “Well, I started this church. It’s my church. Go and start your own church.” But it’s not his church at all. It’s the church of all the people who attend it. All of the people who attend it deserve good leadership and if Phil Pringle is incapable of providing it, he should make way for somebody who can.
Phil Pringle thinks he can gain credibility by wearing a denim jacket and leaving his shirt untucked. That might have won people over in 2005 but it’s not going to win people over today. People are looking for solid answers to pressing problems. The clothes a pastor wears mean very little. What matters is what is coming out of his mouth. What is coming out of Phil Pringle’s mouth is like a red warning light flashing continuously.
Yeah, they’ve totally mixed up the whole offence thing. I think its John Bevere’s books that have inspired a lot of pastors to get it the wrong way round.
@ Cephas – “Severe Bevere”, oh yes know him well. Pounds with the law and fails to bring the comfort of the gospel. Mainly instructs on how to obey your leader, calling those who actually take the biblical injunction to be discerning seriously, “critical”.
He gives a whole new meaning to the term “bully pulpit”.
God bless you Andrew! At last! Someone who actually KNOWS their Bible and quotes it correctly on the issue of “forgiveness”. Remember the events of the cross …… ONLY the thief who ASKED for forgiveness was granted it – if it was open slather, then both would have been forgiven and taken to Heaven with Christ! I sat for years in CCC churches and heard the pastors preach that “if a person had arthritis, it was a sign that they were carrying unfogiveness in their heart” (don’t ask me where this garbage came from because I have no idea of its origin). I used to cringe as I sat and looked around at some of our lovely elderly worshippers, clearly riddled with arthritis and witness the distressed looks on their faces. How DARE these leaders do this to these dear folk just because they couldn’t explain why their “healing powers” didn’t seem to work on arthritis in their healing meetings. Nauseating and nothing short of abuse of the elderly!!!!!
Jacqui Fenton said:
This is an extremely interesting website. I attended C3 for 5 years before i moved away from the area. I had lived away for 3, and have never been so close to god from the incredible foundation C3 had helped me build. I believe the pastors and leaders at C3 are biblical and practical. “In the world but not of it”. But each to their own… someone must have really upset you, sorry about that – chin up buddy. x
“In the world but not of it”.
Interesting choice of words, Jacqui.
So when C3 preach “God wants you to be rich”, that’s not of the world?
When they preach “God wants you to be successful”, that’s not of the world?
When they spruik “Your best life”, that’s not of the world?
“I believe the pastors and leaders at C3 are biblical and practical.”
Well you would, wouldn’t you, since you have such a warped perspective.
This comment should be deleted. Unsubstantiated accusations of sexual assault.
Wow…this website…really. I have seen hundreds come to Christ and come to the knowledge of the true living God and I know that God does not like when we argue like this. Might I suggest praying as opposed to putting time aside to argue and debate over certainly meaningful things in the Church and doctrine…let’s just pray instead. Check out the way Paul puts it when He is talking to Timothy about other leaders and those who are in authority over others but don’t know the truth or are not saved.
“Therefore I exhort first of all that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and GIVING OF THANKS be made for ALL men, for kings and all who are in authority, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life in all godliness and reverence. For this is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth. (1 Timothy 2:1-4 NKJV)
How can we be thankful or even pray for people that we don’t honor ourselves? Honor them with the words you say about them. Lift them up in prayer, supplication, intercession, and thankfulness please. This is good and acceptable in the sight of God. 🙂
Nick Tompson said:
Now that sounds like God’s way!
“Now that sounds like God’s way!”
Only to those who don’t know Him.
steve smith said:
This unsubstantiated accusation should be deleted. Unless there is proof, this is slander.
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Nick Tompson said:
Mate I think the real reason you started this blog is because you carry un-forgiveness. Get over your gripes and move on. Let the Holy Spirit do the pastoring. It’s not your place to judge!
“Let the Holy Spirit do the pastoring. It’s not your place to judge!”
Sorry Nick Thompson. I have to ask you which Holy Spirit you are telling us to follow.
A Holy Spirit that wrote the scriptures that taught us how Jesus and His apostles told us to judge? Or a Holy Spirit that pastors people to do nothing about immorality behind the pulpit?
“A person with a pseudonym has no right anywhere to make a claim to be able to publicly pronounce judgment on another Christian, and especially a leader.”
We’re within bounds then, because Phil Pringle is no leader, and the jury remains out as to whether he is in fact a Christian.
“Let the Holy Spirit do the pastoring.”
Like Phil Pringle does when he says – with a straight face – that God wants us to be rich?
The same old platitudes rolled out again, and again, and again. This is part of the “cult” teaching. If you DARE to criticise or bring attention to a problem “you are carrying unforgiveness” …………. did Jesus carry “unforgiveness’ when he criticised the Pharisees????? The day these hackneyed old phrases don’t get dragged out every time someone shows concern for what is going on in the church is the day the Christian Church might regain some credibility. And followers keep insisting they are not “brainwashed?????? PLEASE…………..
“Could you tell us your credentials and the basis on which you say you are articled to judge any man, let alone C3 leadership?”
First off – the bible is the central basis for any Christian and their credentials to judge any man INCLUDING the appalling leadership of Phil Pringle in the C3 movement.
Secondly, we don’t like how C3 mocks, slanders and criticises ‘critics’ while it parades a facade of not judging. We do not dare reveal those who use alias’ on C3ChurchWatch unless they are willing to put their names out their. The reason why most people don’t put their names out on C3CW is because they feel intimidated by C3. Since C3CW has demonstrated the fact that the C3 movement acts very cult-like, we don’t wish to put people’s jobs or families at risk. So please respect that people are finally getting the courage to speak out about their experiences as Kerri and others have.
We are not impressed of the vitriol some c3 pastors have expressed about this site. We encourage anyone to email us if anything we have written about C3 is slanderous. So far, their have been minor corrections and none from the C3 organisation itself.
On the topic of credentials..
If we did publish our credentials, it wont offer people much since we are dealing with a movement where the founders credentials aren’t presented 100% honestly. (Pringle’s claim of being a ‘Doctor,’ ‘Pastor’, ‘Prophet,’ and ‘Apostle’.)
We appeal to any Christians to test what the C3 Pasotrs say and what we say to the Word of God. This is the basis of who is in error and who is in the clear.
“Your anonymity invalidates everything you say.”
It’s ironic that you should say that, since you yourself post as “Don Diego”. Or do you simply assume that all we know that it’s you, Steve?
Lets say C3ChurchWatch had no credentials. One still needs to ask the question:
What is worse? A blog that hides their credentials in case C3 slanders them; or a church movement that has their founder parade dishonest credentials who slander, mock, sensor and condemn their critics?
To our credit – we are open to correction and criticism by critics
C3 on the other hand are closed to correction.
To our credit – we present the facts, what C3 says and come to logical conclusions.
C3 on the other hand does not engage in facts and instead publicly criticise, sensor, mock and slander people who dare question what they teach.
To our credit – we do not slander God publicly.
Key C3 leaders that represent the image of C3 Church on the other hand unashamedly slander and blaspheme God publicly.
To our credit – we consider how we handle God’s Words on C3CW.
C3 on the other hand, as we have proven, does not consider God’s Word to be handled accurately or thoughtfully.
If any church group is not handling or representing God’s Word accurately, then everything else that they do should be discounted. Why? Because they are failing to represent God fairly. How can anyone represent God accurately in action if they do not know Him (as He has revealed Himself in the scriptures)?
We will say this again:
“We appeal to any Christians to test what the C3 Pasotrs say and what we say to the Word of God. This is the basis of who is in error and who is in the clear.”
Those defending C3 – please take note what you are doing. You are changing the standard in how you should judge C3CW and C3. We encourage you to compare C3 to us in how we use the only credible standard: the bible. Also consider what other Christian Pastors, Teachers and Leaders say in regards to C3 Church.
Now also consider this:
Jim Jones paraded his good works.
Jim Jones had big numbers.
Jim Jones persuaded men away from God.
Poisoned and then gunned them.
You could say,
Phil Pringle paraded his good works.
Phil Pringle had big numbers.
Phil Pringle persuaded men away from God.
Now in hell, people found he conned them.
It is no wonder that Jesus said that false prophets would not get into heaven by parading their “good works” before him. (Matt 7.)
Our focus is the truth. God’s Truth is revealed in His Word. This is where credibility stems from.
This is our simple standard. Please follow the bible so we can have proper discussions here. If you want to defend C3, at least use the bible.
At least make C3 look biblically competent on their behalf. Please.
If you aren’t interested in this standard – please leave now. If you are not comparing C3 and us to this standard please leave C3CW.
If you are not willing to base Christian credibility off God’s Word, please don’t waste your time commenting here.
“Tell Zorro Don Diego was Zorro’s real name.”
If I hadn’t known that already, a simple Google search would have thrown it up.
So tell me Don, has God made you rich and successful, just the way he’s meant to?
simul iustus et peccator said:
@ Don Diego – don’t you hate it when bloggers won’t use their “real” names when commenting?
“Therefore, there is absolutely no valid reason for not telling people who you are.”
Well it would strain credulity at that!
“Or do you simply assume that all we know that it’s you, Steve?”
Didn’t mind, what’s ‘ees face ‘on his self conTROLLED blog
HE FITS THERE……….!OOOOOH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111
I’ve attended C3 for almost 10 years. I’ve met some wonderful people. I’ve met some not wonderful people. I’ve been witness to appalling acts of immorality by pastors in the movement, but I’ve also been witness to some amazing moves of God. Just because the leaders may be faulty at times, doesn’t change the heart of the people who are genuinely seeking God. I struggle with this as I don’t believe in being judgmental, but it is impossible to hear some of the sermons and not see the blatant omission of certain Biblical verses that warp the message to suit the speaker. There are many, many good, decent and loving people that attend C3 churches. Likewise, I believe there are many who would show one face to the world and a completely different face behind their own walls.
I believe this site does something important – it gets people’s eyes opened to the fact that there MAY be some serious issues happening that are swept under the rug. I have personally been involved in an ugly situation concerning a previous C3 location and through that process my discernment has only grown. It doesn’t mean I hate C3 in general as I believe my location (thankfully) is being led with integrity. What does discredit this site is the harsh words that people exchange towards one another. If a reader finds this site and is honestly curious and searching for truth, how will it help them to read bickering and belittling comments? If we truly keep it about facts – then this site is doing exactly what it was meant to do – inform.
Some of the comments made on these posts are helpful to readers like me who have questions but may not know where or to whom to ask them. I enjoy a good back and forth but only as a tool for understanding…not insulting. Again, I have been a C3 member for a long time, but that does not make me uninformed or a sheep or a bad Christian. I don’t agree with all of the teaching, but I know to question things that don’t feel right. I hope more people begin to do so. I won’t quote any scriptures to prove anyone right or wrong, I will simply say that everyone has a journey to go on in this life. How they get there is between them and God. I want to know when I go to bed at night that I have done everything I could to be a good person and to act in a way that lends credibility to the statement that I am a believer and follower of God.
Thank you for the work you do, everyone. Because if you’re researching out of offense, curiosity, necessity or desire…you’re still researching. Eventually you will find the truth.
That was a great post. And we agree with you. There are some terrific and beautiful people at C3 who only wish to see Jesus glorified. However, some serious housekeeping needs to happen in leadership. We don’t want to see genuine Christians in this movement be on the receiving end of the “acts of immorality by pastors in the movement.” These issues need to be discussed.
We do wish to inform and report as best as possible. We also don’t endorse the behaviour and comments of everyone on C3CW.
Thank you for your contribution. We would like to talk with you via email. Please contact us.
There are also some beautiful and wonderful people in the mormons. Even Mitt Romney looks a great guy. However they are all deceived.
“he always quote: show me your friends i will show you your future, now you just look, who is Phil best friend? Kong, …”
Jessica, Kong has recently been exposed as a con man and in a couple of days his trial will start. Maybe Phil can visit him in prison?
Look at Sun Ho, Kong’s wife, who was his assistant “pastor” and you will have a brilliant understanding of the depth of Phil’s discernment and spiritual stature! Phil, has proclaimed in the media, that Sun Ho, with her whorish and ungodly music and videos, was doing “god’s work”.
This site has a lot of information about Sun Ho, Phil’s friend.
“[…] you clearly admit that you have no Biblical training or credentials […]”.
So Don, what “credentials” do *you* have? Do you love to be called “pastor” in your meetings? Do you love to sit in the most important seats at all your conferences?
And could you tell us what credentials and Biblical training Jesus had, that lent him such credibility when he pronounced His scathing denunciations of the ever-so-erudite religious scholars of his day?
It’s clear that you are a blind fool whose carnal mind is firmly fixed on the things of this world.
Just for a change, it would be interesting to see Don Diego and Roundhouse point to particular issues raised here on this blog and explain why they think them unbiblical.
Telling other Christians not to judge what they see and hear at C3 or any other church denomination for that matter, when ironically, Don Diego and Roundhouse, are incredibly more judgmental than those who are trying to practice discernment as biblically mandated!
They would have us take Phil Pringle and C3 teaching on board without practicing any discernment. Why are there so many warnings about false teachers and false prophets in these last days (as we are almost 2000 years further down the track and closer to His return).
1 Thess 5:20-22 “..do not despise prophetic utterances. But examine everything carefully; hold fast to that which is good; abstain from every form of evil.”
The Ephesian church knew how to exercise spiritual discernment, they knew how to evaluate men who claimed spiritual leadership by their doctrine, how much more should we or is this church culture exempt because “look how big this movement is, look how many attend, look how many lives are being changed”.
When did the church start equating popularity with success? Particularly when it’s the small persecuted churches that are commended in the Book of Revelation, not the “campus-style” Laodicean model.
‘Firstly, who decides what is “biblical”?’
The Holy Spirit decides. Obviously you’ve never read of how Jesus taught with authority (which came by the Spirit), as opposed to the scribes and teachers of the law (whose understanding came from their fallen carnal minds).
“Sadly, for many believers, experiences trump the truth in the bible every time.”
That’s true: it’s exactly what happens at C3.
“[…] the bible clearly states that the prayers of a righteous man are powerful and effective, and that all His promises are Yes and Amen.”
That doesn’t mean that the answer to every prayer is “yes”. Perhaps you’ve never read that Paul prayed three times that his affliction would be taken away, and that God answered him with an emphatic “no”.
“Their interpretation comes from their own experiences and knowledge of who God is.”
Rubbish. My interpretation comes from the Holy Spirit. It’s clear that you have not read what is written: “He is the Holy Spirit, who leads into all truth.”
You would presume to lecture me (and others) on matters spiritual, but what you have done is to put your woeful ignorance of the Scriptures on public display. What is even worse is the fact that even the bits that you do know, you cannot understand! How ironic it is, then, that you should proclaim the fact that those who post here make fools of themselves. Have a look in the mirror: you are a classic product of C3 – someone who knows nothing and will believe anything.
That’s it? That’s all you have to offer in reply?
You can’t offer up so much as a single a verse in your own defence, or in defence of your “church” or your “pastor”?
Your reply only underscores what I have already pointed out: you hardly know Scripture, and what little you do know, you don’t understand. We can all see that leaves you with very little to say, which is really just as well, because your discourse is quite a long way from qualifying you as either an accomplished wordsmith or a master of reason and debate. (Though I will say, in your defence, that you write much more competently than does Phil Pringle, even though he does have a “PhD”).
That Guy said:
“Your reply only underscores what I have already pointed out: you hardly know Scripture, and what little you do know, you don’t understand.”
Oh, this is your best comment yet. So when exactly are you going to share your little pearls of wisdom about Scripture? Just a hint: “Call stupid anyone who does not agree with you”? Not actually in the Bible.
“I’ll take it then that you do not attend a particular local church and do not have a particular pastor or overseer you refer to.”
You are clearly fixated with this idea that we should be subject to the “oversight” of a pastor or suchlike. I assume that this is because you yourself are on one of the lower rungs of some mega-church’s gnostic ladder, gazing heavenwards with undying adoration to behold your glorious and infallible “leader”. But it transpires that just like all the pathetic apologists of your ilk, you haven’t read your Bible – you clearly don’t know that it is written “For you were like sheep going astray, but now you have returned to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls.” So you can keep your self-absorbed, spiritually-abusive, tithe-collecting, miserable excuse of an “uber pastor”; *my* shephard and overseer is Jesus Christ Himself.
“That is, as far as I can make out from scripture, a Biblically sound request.”
Yeah, sure, sure; whatever you say.
“[…] how do we know what basis you have for presenting your particular brand of attack on C3 […]”.
There’s a plumb line that you may have heard of – it’s called the Bible, did you know?
As for the “brand” of attack, it’s the “Holy Spirit” brand.
“This seems an unjust position from which to make claims.”
So maybe we should instead shut down this blog, pretend to have PhDs, then proceed to build a fancy complex (with other people’s money, of course), from whence we can flog fifth-rate books and seventh-rate art, all in between spruiking a watered-down, ear-tickling, non-Gospel.
Must of missed the scripture in THE BIBLE that says or implies that righteousness comes from worldly (carnal, earthly, earthy, fleshly, human, lay, materialistic, mundane, natural, physical, practical, profane, secular, sublunary, telluric, temporal, terrene, terrestrial, ungodly) credentials (accreditation, authorization, card, certificate, character, deed, diploma, docket, document, documentation, endorsement, letter of credence, letter of introduction, license, missive, papers, passport, proof, recommendation, sanction, testament, testimonial, title, token, voucher, warrant) and is by faith in them.Can someone please point out this scripture so,that I may gain Christ and be found in him, not having a righteousness of my own that comes from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ—the righteousness that comes from God on the basis of faith!?
That guy said:
Probably because you made some perfectly valid points that they found too inconvenient to their cause and so chose to ignore it. They do that.
LOL, the brainwashed masses are right into projection, aren’t they?
The Bible makes perfectly valid points that Phil Pringle and his followers find too inconvenient, and so they choose to ignore them.
Phil also assiduously attacks his critics; the reason for this is his very thin skin (fear of man), and the fact that at some level he dimly understands that his “theology” is quite simply indefensible, being as it is nothing but a load of shallow and convoluted tripe.
Interestingly enough, Phil himself is also actually quite the role model when it comes to projection; the classic case being when he whined from behind the lectern that his critics should “grow a pair”. It’s clear that the students are like the master.
Dear oh dear! When will the projection stop?
C3’s juvenile and puerile slurs against those who stand up for God’s truth show everyone who hears them what kind of a “church” it really is.
Is C3 teaching that we can ask for anything and God will say yes? Yes to prosperity? Yes to a trouble-free life? Yes to MY desires?
If your prayers are not in line with God’s will (as Paul above) then the answer can be no – this will be for your benefit because God’s way is better than ours.
C3 appears too close to the nae it clai it doctrine. You can have YOUR drea, YOUR deisres, YOUR wealth. It is all ME ME ME with C3. Don’t you ever just get fed up and tired of the prosperity gospel? This is not the Jesus in the Bible – Jesus’ life did not emphasise money and wealth of the world and abundance.
An Aussie C3 Pastor visited our C3 Church recently. What did we get? ‘Come forward at the end for that debt and financial breakthrough’.
Such a shame – as people have left due to the ‘Pringle Factor’ and the back door is getting wider.
Interesting article in Herescope last week ‘The Cult of Evangelical Leadership’. If your C3 Church is losing valued families and others involved in frontline prayer and teaching ministries (like mine) it is worth a look to see some of the reasons why.
Link to Herescope is above left at the top of this page
We will have to start deleting belittling comments on C3CW if this is not resolved. Zorro – please don’t result in insulting people. Don Diego and Roundhouse, please do not go out of your way to defame what we are doing on C3CW with your malice intent. Simply dispute what we are doing that is wrong using scripture.
Zorro and Don Diego, the 2Cor 12 passage is a passage that many scholars have debated over the centuries. Please choose other passages that supports your arguments.
“Don’t worry yourself too much about this site. It’s just one of the many out there around the world who have taken it upon themselves to “correct” Christian leaders and Pastors (you know, those who are making a difference in this world and actually doing the work of the gospel), while all the while blowing smoke up their own backsides about how “awesome” their site is for “revealing the truth” about those ministers. Leave them to their smugness and pity parties. Let them stew in their bitterness while your life continues to be encouraged and challenged.”
What did you say Don Diego?
“Thanks Roundhouse! you’re right.”
You participated in Roundhouse belittling C3CW. So don’t act as though you aren’t here to defame what C3CW is accurately and factually presenting. We let Pringle and other leaders in the C3 movement prove firsthand how incompetent they are at presenting God accurately at all. (Have you seen “Pringle’s Oracle Debacles” yet?)
You later stated:
“I’ll take it then that you do not attend a particular local church and do not have a particular pastor or overseer you refer to.”
We do actually. We are accountable to five pastors and various elders from different denominations. They shall not be named in case you choose to disgrace them publicly. Zorro, hopefully wont name-call you or Roundhouse any more. We strongly suggest that you base your arguments on scripture.
Please find articles on C3CW and dispute them biblically. If you find anything that is said in those articles that you believe should be questioned, by all means freely criticise and correct them.
12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will suffer persecution.
As opposed of course to
12 Yes, and all who desire to live godly in Christ Jesus will achieve abundance and prosperity.
Paul nailed that fallacy straight away.
But, since you raise it, tell me, do you think those who live godly in Christ Jesus will ever achieve any kind of abundance or prosperity?
Hi Don Diego.
Do you think God can be reduced to a simple formula?
Does the Bible ever speak of prosperity for God’s people?
So why do most Christians not have it.
I’ll answer all our questions. When Jesus speaks of abundant life and the Bible speaks of prosperity it sure as heck isn’t talking about material possessions.
If it is then for most Christians that statement is a lie.
The abundant life relates to the abundance of the fruits of the Spirit. Love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, gentleness etc.
Today’s twitter stream Oct 13
@philpringle “Looking forward to speaking, together with Chris, in all services, answering questions ’bout relationships, from a bed!”
Yes, Phil Pringle, truly a man to be reckoned with.
Such originality, perhaps he’ll fare better than Ed Young Jnr and his similar antics.
“Looking forward to speaking […] from a bed!”
Could one assert, then, that this is one instance where Phil will clearly be lying behind the pulpit?
(Of course, those of us with understanding realise that where the Holy Spirit is absent from a “church”, vain and shallow teaching, cheap gimmickry and tawdry displays will be very much in evidence).
What on earth is Phil Pringle thinking? Obviously missed the fallout from Ed Young Jr’s failure to pull off the same stunt (with its resulting bad publicity a few years ago – not to mention the recent 24 hour rooftop “sexperiement” mega-fail).
Phil, try announcing you are going to do a verse by verse exposition of Romans and see how much that spiritually matures your “campus” attendees.
Just for a change, try trusting the inerrant, infallible, authorative, all sufficient Word for a change, and then you could put all this other nonsense to bed (pardon the pun).
Seriously? The statistics? As one pastor facetiously responded to that tweet “get a room”!
What was the focus? Not Christ, the BED on the stage was the focus.
How could you miss it?
Give the people the whole counsel of God in season and out of season if you want to see marriages restored – it’s all there in that Word.
If you want to use props have a marriage/relationship seminar (and they do, and they have). Having been told that there’s been an epidemic of broken marriages at that church over the years, one could reflect that’s a consequence of NOT hearing the gospel.
Yeah, being censored is a real shocker, isn’t it?
Maybe we should aspire to be just like Phil Pringle – he would *never* muzzle, marginalise, or malign his many critics, would he?
It’s not hard to come to the conclusion that the “Don Diego’s & Roundhouse’s” of this world simply do not understand, or more to the point, tolerate, the concerns people have here with Phil Pringle and the C3 movement. They bring nothing to the discussion that might cause others to change their minds, their own unloving attitude to those raising questions being clearly evident.
The more astute students of the bible have very real concerns, and having a love to hear God’s Word rightly divided, clearly recognise when it is not!
The most obvious concerns raised about Phil Pringle is his misuse of scripture, often quoting verses out of context and even more dangerous, using them in a way that’s more advantageous to whatever point he’s trying to make.
This failure to preach clearly honestly from the text of scripture can come down to two things – ignorance or rebellion. Or something worse, pride. In other words, what the man behind the pulpit has to say is more important than what God has said.
Despite this, “Don Diego” & Roundhouse continue to give high praise to a man, rather than defending God’s Word against such abuse.
James 3:1″Not many of you should become teachers, my brothers, for you know that we who teach will be judged with greater strictness.”
With the danger of that greater judgment hanging over his head, one would think this approval of Phil Pringle’s very unsound eisegesis, is totally misguided and unloving towards Phil on their part.
I really don’t think the removal of Don Diego’s (is that you, Steve?) posts is a very good look at all.
he would *never* muzzle, marginalise, or malign his many critics, would he?
Maybe, but would you?
Do I justify my behaviour on how others behave? Or on how I want to be treated by others?
“Maybe, but would you?”
Absolutely not; I was merely pointing out how ironic it was that Steve was taking umbrage at his posts ending up on the cutting-room floor.
I would be happy for Steve to be allowed to make a complete fool of himself by demonstrating that he thinks “apologetics” and “apologist” are terms that are interchangeable.
Wow – a friend of mine just passed this blog onto my husband (who in turn passed it onto me) as he is working on an expose blog himself – deceptionfree.wordpress.com
In 2006 I was apart of C3 Vancouver and after about 3 years of attendance I left.
The church was a far cry from the bride Jesus is coming back for.
The last service I attended was a service centered around giving more money to the church – because they had all these “needs”. I was outraged. The pastors lived in West Vancouver – aka Canada’s most prestigious postal code. Not only that – but in my experiences there – the body never once did any sort of out reach, nor did they support the community in anyway shape or form.
As a new believer at that time – I was fully aware that something was wrong here – and I started serving in a East Hastings mission by myself.
Regardless…Thank you for doing what you’re doing.
“Are you really? Why did you ban people then? They asked some important questions even if you don’t agree with them.”
Among many other things, we were tipped off that they were trolls. They don’t want to engage in theological or reasonable discussion.
It’s good to ask important questions. We encourage this. We do encourage criticism. We have in the past made changes to our articles from their criticisms. But their motive wasn’t their to keep C3CW accountable. Their overall commentary was to stain and ruin what C3CW do. They simply do not like C3CW. That’s okay. They don’t have to reply. They can criticise us privately if they think we need to address certain issues in our articles.
it is such a shame that a mass majority of proclaiming Christians never examine themselves to see wether they or their churches teachings are in line with the faith. Many have the same attitude as those caught in the cults and can not act nor discuss with those that oppose them in a rational and cognitive manner without getting offended. Christ, the apostles and the early church where continually defending the faith against false teachers and wrong teaching. The apostle Paul continually argued and defended the faith. He warned the Ephesians for 3 years day and night to the point of tears of wrong teachers and teaching within the walls of the church. When one Devours and studies books such as 1st and 2nd timothy, jude and Galatians etc, you will learn that the pure gospel must be defended and that wolves are amongst the sheep. Mark those who cause divisions we are warned. The division is not those who expose error butt those who bring in false or incorrect teaching also known as heresy. Heresy is what divides the church. The scripture declares mark those who bring in heresy. why ? because they are bringing in teaching opposite to what Christ handed down to the apostles who handed it down to the early church, who handed it down to us and remove us further away from the simplicity found in CHrist. If peter and many of the apostles where rebuked by Paul for teaching wrong teaching, well then I’m certain that C3 Pastors and leaders can get it wrong also. The question is do they have the same humility that the apostles had to admit and repent of their error?,from carmelo in witchcliffe Western Australia
Very true Carmelo.
The big problem with churches such as C3 and the various prosperity gospel teaching churches is the leaders of those churches use Christ as a smoke screen for their own worldliness and greed of power and position. They are nothing like the church Christ and the first disciples set up. Christ promised the disciples they would suffer much in his name. The gospels and letters make it clear that the life of a Christian is going to be tough at times and that through perseverance the Christian will gain wisdom, maturity and strength to hold firm to the faith. Not drive around in a Beemer or Merc and have a nice house on the Northern Beaches. One reading of the New Testament makes that abundantly clear.
One of the big problems with much of modern (western/Americanised) Christianity is that people don’t read God’s word for themselves. Instead they let someone like Mr Pringles tell them what it says. I wouldn’t want to be someone living in the western world on the day of judgement when God says “Why didn’t you follow my word?” And they say “We didn’t really think we needed to read the Bible for ourselves. We thought we would listen to Mr Pringle, he sounded so convincing and so right. Plus, we didn’t really believe what other people were saying about our church’s teachings, Mr Pringle was so convincing. We didn’t see any need to question Mr Pringle. We were loyal followers. It’s not our fault he wasn’t teaching your truth. Plus, we didn’t really have time to read all your word. It’s really long and confusing, you know? We were too busy doing stuff and didn’t have any spare time.”
Wake up folks, before it’s too late.
Get into God’s word; be like the Bereans, check out everything that you are taught against what God’s word says.
One of the best remarks that i have read on this entire ‘blog’ , CARMELO, Kudos!!!
Matt J said:
As an athiest, with a passing interest in so called churches such C3, I have enjoyed reading the comments on this blog. My favourite comment so far is by Bill, who ironically asked Dibs how he could believe in something without any proof. Gold. Anyway, everybody is entitled to a belief system and while I don’t have the same beliefs as others here, I’m sure we can agree that any belief system that uses the threat of physical harm as a means of garnering support or financial gain from its followers, is a system that required scrutiny and exposure fit what it truly is. I know somebody involved in this C3 organisation so I will be paying a little more attention to what is being said around me I’m future. Cheers everyone.
Matt J said:
Hmm. Please excuse my hasty typing which left more than one mistake in my comments.
Thanks for your thoughts MattJ.
We would like to encourage you to think about the historical validity of Jesus and what he did 2000 years ago. Have you actually studied the authenticity of the biblical texts and other sources outside the bible?
Food for thoughts verses…
NLT Matt 23:4, 13-15
WOW. You must be turning potential christians away by the thousands. The bible says “by this they (the unchurched) will know you, if you love one another”. I know, I know, you will say “but theyre heretics” “theyre evil” – whatever. Jesus ate with sinners. If these guys are so bad, sit down, have a meal and discuss this stuff like grown ups.
Can I ask; are you implying that all the C3 churches as bad as Phil Pringles (its rhetorical)? Because you are tarring them with the same brush and thats real bad buddy.
I think you may have made your point and its probably time to move on because I cannot find a shred of love nor grace in this.
Some of the other churches that “support you” seem to be getting their fair share of controversy and flack too. There are no winners in any of this.
If my wee spiel is water off a ducks back then heres a request:
YOU put up ALL your details i.e. tell us who you are, the church you go to, your educational background, theological background and full description of your beliefs. Please tell us your family information, friends you associate with, ALL information on your supporters, complete with full audited financials attributed from this site. Please enlighten us on how much you have given. We will need to know to whom and a a note on why you chose these recipients.
Once you have compiled this we will then all read this information, set up a blog and “judge (sorry correct) you as a brother” or follow you as an enlightened and worthy leader chosen by God.
Christians can sell out to the world and not even realise it. It happens every time we let the things we want from life overpower our judgement and Christian principles. It happens when we try to use prayer to further our own ends. It happens when wealth becomes an end to itself and justice flies out of the window. How can we avoid it? By prayer by seeking God out; by seeing ourselves as we really are and submitting wholeheartedly to Him. By realising we can count on nothing in this life and depending on Him, not just tacking an automatic God willing onto our own plans. There is a special danger in affluence. It cocoons people in false security. They are so well-insulated that they cease to feel for those who are cold and hungry. And values become warped. ( this is written in the Lion handbook to the bible). This is how I view c3 and why they’ve lost the way, that’s if they ever had it in the first place.
Been a member of c3 for 13 years and know phil and the guys well, you can “know people by their fruit” the bible says.i can feel it in my gut, i love c3 and love to hear the word being preached, infact im helping start another c3 now.mature christians can make a call on thier own no matter what the critics say.. is c3 correct in all they do? they are people so probebly not but its a great movment and the 2020 vision is coming to pass and so gad to be a part!
annette homer said:
Hi All, especially you Zorro. I am new as i just found this site. I thank God for it. As for all those Pious christians who disagree with pointing out false teachers and so called Christians JUST REMEMBER if someone had spoken out on Jim Jones and Jonestown, and WARNED PEOPLE, it may not have happened or at lest, not so many would have lost their lives. SO KEEP ON WARNING PEOPLE zorro and those like minded people. For all you lukewarm Christians out there read Matthew chapter 23. WHAT DID JESUS DO. Pointed out fake, false lover of self so called people. READ IT.
Pringle is just one of many of the false teachers of today. But if people knew their Bible, they would leave, thus making Pringle jobless.
Im sorry for what happened to the person who started this site. Can the person who started this site please contact me.
Thanks for the vote of confidence; it’s good to know that this site is making a real impact.
The “leaders” in the C3 cult have always relied on a tightly-controlled environment to shield themselves from censure, but the Internet has proved a game-changer that has left them with nowhere to hide.
Good on you Annette. You expressed profound good sense and logic!!!
If not C3, what church is the right one and how will you know.
Good question Jeffery. Many are asking. I have asked this question before. Now I found a good church that teaches us how to rightly divide the word of truth; according to 2 Timothy 2:15-16 (KJV)
“Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. ”
Christians nowadays do not study rightly the word of God, means we do not rightly divide the Bible (the word of truth) ; that which is for us to follow, or that which is not for us to follow, but only as a lesson and understanding of what happened in the past. Whether God is speaking to us, Gentiles, or speaking to the Jews; we have to differentiate, if not we follow the wrong instructions, and ended doing the wrong things for God. Please check http://www.graceambassadors.com (Grace Ambassadors) website, and you will grow in your Christian walk properly. I have now such peace in following Jesus, by meditating the teachings of Apostle Paul, the apostle to the Gentiles. He said, we are Ambassadors for Christ, and Ministers of God, not Royal Priesthood, which should be the Jews. But they denied their calling, and God, for the time being, put them aside. We Gentiles, are the Body of Christ, and not the Bride of Christ because Jews will be, in the new millennium. People in this Grace dispensation who are saved, will be raptured and heavenly bound before tribulation, while the Jews and those who still do not believed in Jesus will have to undergo tribulation and suffer. My church teaches very clearly the book of Revelation not like other churches teach. You may find it in Grace Ambassadors website, by Pastor Justine Johnson.
How will you know it’s right? When a church teaches Paul’s teachings and tell us to follow by rightly dividing the word of truth. When a church doesn’t tell you to pay tithes, but give love offering according to your faith. No force. There is no condemnation in Christ. We are saved by Grace, not because of our work. When we are given the right messages of God, our mind will not be confused, and we won’t go after false prophets. There is such peace in your soul, that only God’s word can console.
Blessings & Hope,
By what is being preached, what is being taught, and by what is being confessed in the creeds.
Does the pastor/minister preach the true gospel of Jesus Christ (Galatians 1:6-9)?
If you are hearing another “Jesus” being preached in its place, then it is not a Christ-following church and it’s time to move on. (Ephesians 1:22; 4:15, Colossians 1:18).
The pastor/minister will teach the truth of the Word as clearly given in the Bible (2 Timothy 3:15-17).
That truth being that we are sinners (Romans 3:23), that we need a savior, and that Jesus is the only way of salvation (Romans 6:23, Ephesians 2:8-9).
The gospel should be taught accurately, consistently and in “context, context, context”.
Gavin Goh said:
Matthew 7:17 – Even so every good tree brings forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree brings forth evil fruit.
Whether a church is on the right track aligning with God’s given vision can be seen through their fruits. If the church is impacting lifes of others and is growing, that is all that matters isn’t it? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. Let God do the judgment. Rather than spending time criticising, why not spend time reaching out, devoting your time to God and impacting lifes of others?
Gavin, “Evil flourishes where good men do nothing”!!!!!
With the greatest of respect, if your definition of what should be left unquestioned is “what is growing” and “what is impacting people’s lives” is the standard, then it is little wonder that the Nazi party grew to such heights whilst Christian Churches at the time sat back and did nothing. And please no one get on their high horse and assume I am making any sort of comparison between C3 and Hitler’s party. That will ony prove that you don’t LISTEN and read things CAREFULLY. My purpose is to simply say what a shallow and dangerous criteria it is such as that which Gavin has put forward by which we should judge a “fruit-producing” church. “Is it impacting lives?” “Is it growing?” That is NOT the criteria by which the Bible tells us to judge!!!!
Yes, no argument C3 probably is growing …. financially and in numbers. Is that really the point. One only has to read some of the posts on this site to see how NEGATIVELY C3 is “impacting people’s lives” also. And it is a fundamental purpose of the C3 to build up numbers so that the tithes build up accordingly. That kind of “growth” is hardly something to boast of is it?
The “turn-over” rate in these mega churches is astounding! As one group begins to question the leadership and what is happening in their church, they fall out of “favour’ and are replaced with a new panting group of admirers with stars in their eyes, who are waiting in the wings and being “groomed” to take their place. This is just the way it works and if you have doubts about it then go back over the church history and the church records (if you are permitted!)
Church leaders behaviour and character should emulate that of Christ. The BIBLE SAYS SO!!!!!! Jesus was NOT about building crowds (in fact He avoided them when He could in order to have intimate and meaningful relationships with individuals and small groups).
Jesus just preached the simple gospel message – no fanfare, no pop groups, no fancy buildings, no hoop-la………….. he lived simply and most importantly, He SERVED His followers – not the other way around!!!!!! (and you should take careful note of that particlar characteristic as it is NOT one which is practised by C3 leaders.)
Pringle surrounds himself, as do most other C3 leaders, with a panting, sycophantic group of followers who are just desperate for their turn to get near to him and be invited into the inner group of favoured people. It is CHRIST we should be trying to get close to isn’t it? The manipulation and scurrillous behaviour of some of the leaders in C3 is nothing short of disgraceful and an indictment on other Christians who never qustion it and allow it to continue AGAINST BIBLE INSTRUCTION TO QUESTION ALL THINGS AND HOLD ON TO THAT WHICH IS GOOD!!!
Jumping around on stage and being an “entertainer'”is NOT what Christ did. He was humble and unnassuming, reaching out to the marginalised in the community and not caring one iota what the “religious” people of the time thought of Him.
There are none so blind as he who cannot see.
To read Chis’ comment above where he states that C3 is a “great movement’ is so sad and makes the point of this site. It is just that ………”a movement”. I would never describe Christianity as such. And as for the 2020 vision you are waiting to see come to pass? You clearly haven’t been around too long or you would be aware that as the time for each “vision”, put forward by the leaders, comes to pass without it being realised in the way it was “prophesied”, a new one is presented and then everyone is lured by the “new” vision.
Please stop looking for signs and wonders guys. Just go out into your communities and spread the gospel message. And encourage Pringle to rid his stage of the “pop stars”and the glitz and the fake American accent and get back to loving people as Christ did. Would the church still “grow” Gavin? No, it would not because the majority of people sitting in C3 churches are there to be “entertained”. I watched C3 Pastors for YEARS preaching the message whilst jumping up and down on chairs, throwing glasses of water over people in the front rows etc – all good theatre!!!! But was it of Christ – NO!!!!! And I do have to wonder what Christ would have thought about the antics of preaching from a bed, or selling art in church……………. but then He would not have ever witnessed such things as He would have been out with the lepers, the down-trodden and outcasts spreading love and the gospel.
Rather than spending time defending your “leader” and throwing out sanctimonious challenges to the founders of this site, ask yourself has Pringle ever reached out to them or any of the other contributors to this site who have been hurt by some of his actions? Has Pringle ever approached them to sit down and debate the “issues” that are being raised here in a sensible and loving way? If you are going to defend Pringle and C3 then it is only fair that you go back to your Bible and read the passages which tell us how a church should behave and moreover, how a leader should behave!!!!!
As for the comment by Chris above that he knows “Phil and the guys well”……. No you don’t Chris…….. No you don’t! Because if you did your “gut” would be telling you that a leader who is not behaving as Christ said leaders should, is not fit to be leading at all.
Clearly some of the people who write on this site have been badly hurt by Pringle and his cohorts and the Bible CLEARLY INSTRUCTS that if we know our brother has be iffended we should FIRST go to him and speak to him BEFORE going to the altar!!!!!
I presume as a follower of the BIBLE you will go (as the Bible instructs you) to Pringle and ask him when he intends to do this? When he intends to contact these hurt people and try to make things right for them – first asking for forgiveness!!! The result would show you the real “fruit” of the ministry.You and the”guys” you have known for 13 years should examine what sort of “movement” this really is – or is it just another “boys’ club” – and a very lucrative one at that. Dropping “Prase God’ into the conversation every so often does NOT make a Christian.
If all these hurt people are so ‘”wrong” then Pringle wouldn’t mind in the slightest going to them and trying to put things right BEFORE he goes to the altar……. would he???
Sorry about the “typos’ in my post – forgive me please.
You are a hipocrite…. You don’t need to watch….you’ve obviously been burnt some time by a church…. Mate get over it You dipshit…..
Brainwashed is as brainwashed does said:
Bad spelling and bad language.
What a wonderful example of someone who supports Phil the fraud and his fake church.
Why is one particular church being targeted here. Mpost discernmetn ministries I have read before reveal truth across the board..not one individual
bleeding obvious said:
“Why is one particular church being targeted here[?]”
Firstly, it’s not a church – it’s a pseudo-Christian personality / prosperity cult.
As to why it is being “targeted”, that would be because it is run by abusive and controlling bullies who preach a false gospel and who also happen to be liars, cheats and thieves. Does C3CW need any better reasons than these?
This is a great question that we may think about doing an article on. In a nutshell, the C3 movement is a cult-like movement that is intolerant of Christianity. It’s leader promotes an aggressive and almost a hateful attitude towards traditional Christian churches.
From what Pringle has expressed, traditional churches either need to convert to his idea of Christianity or die in their boring outdated traditions. However, Phil Pringle is keen to convince Christians that his form of Christianity is the real Christianity and has been rebranding churches around the world into his own movement. However, if anyone does not heed to this prophet’s God-given vision, his God ideas and teachings, to him they are a curse and a deadly destruction to his idea of Christianity.
This is why Phil Pringle needs to be excommunicated from Christianity. He is a threat to Christianity and is leading millions to hell through his manipulative tyrannical reign, false teachings and false gospel.
Even though Pringle seems to have a basic grasp on Christian ideas, his doctrines are heavily founded on pagan doctrines and fascist methodologies.
There is much dispute if the movement itself is as dangerous as the one who leads it. There are some solid Christian pastors in other C3 churches around the world that faithfully preach the Gospel and the bible in season and out of season.
Because Phil Pringle instructs all his pastors from all his churches to at least attend one of his conferences each year, his dangerous methods, teachings and philosophies are being promoted and reinforced in all his C3 churches around the world. So while most Christians would see nothing wrong with a C3 church in their local area, the destructive leaven that is spreading through Phil Pringle will get it’s way into other churches around the world. These churches are not neutral. They are undermining Christianity and swallowing up churches to promote the cult-like practices and demonic new age teachings from Phil Pringle.
If you wish to object to our claims, please research what is on this site first before accusing us of slandering a man and his movement.
This is the most destructive vile I have ever heard. Very dangerous. Very wrong. You have entered a new low and Im sure your hateful reply will be as eloquant
Did you “research what is on this site first before accusing us”?
Andrew Mackinnon said:
churchwatcher, you’re doing a great job. I’m surprised by your perseverance with this website and I’m grateful for it. You’re doing a lot of heavy lifting. Thanks a lot.
Phil Pringle is displaying the same negative, sociopathic character traits that Freemasons display in positions of leadership in all areas of society such as politics, the public service, corporate business, academia, the police force and the military.
It would be good if multiple people could write open letters to Phil Pringle asking him if he has ever been involved in Freemasonry and, if he has, is he currently involved in Freemasonry? It’s just a matter of putting pressure on him to answer these very simple questions.
None of us are getting any younger. Neither is Phil Pringle but he’s obviously displaying an intention to ride this opposition of ours out for at least the next ten years. Why not potentially bring it all to a close now by putting these simple questions to him?
I’m disappointed by the lack of grappling within Christendom with what Phil Pringle really represents – occult infiltration of the church of Jesus Christ.
More than you will know. The sad thing is, you are into this waaaaay deep into the tunnel to turn back. Dont get sucked into this evil vortex people. There are no winners. Just losers.
Floating on Tiptoes said:
I too was once a member, for many years of a C3 “church.” After years of spiritual abuse and damnable heresy, I could no longer live with the lies and deception. What i went through and witnessed there (as a leader), was anything but Christian. I tried to address the issues in a loving manner, but was effectively pushed out, lied about, and shunned. I praise God for every bit of pain and sorrow I experienced at the hands of these charlatans, because He used it to build me up in the true knowledge of Him, and the truth of Scripture. I am deeply saddened as I watch naive, trusting people blindly embracing the cult, and giving themselves over to the deception, criticising those of us who have experienced such pain and despair. We are accused of being hateful and critical even though we are the victims! So typical of a cult; anyone who leaves and speaks out is the enemy. C3 is not a church, it is a cult, and a very dangerous one indeed. Very few escape their clutches undamaged. Please continue your work in exposing them for what they really are.
I was a long time member of the C3 Movement and was built up to a leaders position. I saw and heard things from pastors and assistant pastors that was totaly unbiblical. I feel for thoes I have left behind and pray for them to be freed from the cluches of Pringles teachings. My wife is one, they encouraged her to stay with the movement and leave me, I thought God was against divorce well it seem to me C3 isnt. I thank God my faith has deepned and believe all will be revealed.
Illegally blonde said:
Tonto (ahem) says ” Don’t get sucked into this evil vortex people. There are no winners. Just losers.”
Well Tonto, you should know. Ever the compromiser, ever the excuse-maker, ever the one who should know better.
We thank God every day for opening our eyes, eternally grateful there ARE faithful men willing to speak out from the pulpit against false teachers, men who are faithful to preach the whole counsel of God, Christ with Him crucified, that it’s ALL about Him and not about us.
Not our best life now, but taking up our cross and following Him.
But you know that, even as you dwell down in your evil vortex of compromise.
@Floating on Tiptoes
Sadly, there are many toxic groups out there, not just C3.
Hi all… I was looking for some ‘Justin Peters’ updates on
Google and stumbled upon your site. It has been an interesting read.
I am placing a few thoughts with some passages to consider. Not being a scholar nor having ‘fleshly’ circumcision, so to speak, I love Ps Phil, Ps John, and Ps Neil, all from three different church denominations I had been attending for many years. The Lord be with them all. Amen.
My feeling is to consider my tongue carefully before I proceed that I should offend no one…for woe is me if any offense should come by me~!
Clearly I am a fool, that I may become wise; please consider this as you read on and forgive any offense, for it is unintentional.
As I read through your comments, Church, my heart thought that a Kingdom divided shall not stand. It is Love that we are commanded to do, not to hate; I think it seems far easier to hate than to Love, in this respect. So looking into the Word of Titus 3:2 “To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, showing all meekness to all men.” it is edifying that my mind was drawn to these words whilst reading your comments. I love being corrected by the Lord, then I know I am loved. Praise His Holy Name JHVH.
Many times I have heard sermons from the Pastors mentioned above and when I found them in error (remember, I am a fool), I considered my judgement on them and prayed the Lord Jesus for correction for these ministers and myself (hoping that my judgment was merciful and correct?). Sadly, I don’t always receive answers to my prayers (I am still waiting for healing). So looking into the Word of 1 Corinthians 13:9 “For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.”, James 3:1 “My brothers, be not many masters, knowing that we shall receive the greater condemnation”, James 2:13 “For he shall have judgment without mercy, that has showed no mercy; and mercy rejoices against judgment, I Corinthians 5:12 “For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not you judge them that are within?” and finally, Matthew 5:22 “But I say to you, that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment and whoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whoever shall say, You fool, shall be in danger of hell fire” it exhorts me to remember these passages in retrospect of reading your comments… CHURCH.
Personally, I know I am not perfect for it is contentions and controversies I think that destroy the works of the Holy Ghost, as do concerns/worries of this world. A fool cannot be corrected, but in Love it may be possible for a wise man to become a fool so that he can become wise.
Please also consider the passage Daniel 2:44 as I believe this is the ultimate state of the Kingdom of God as we are made perfect in Christ Jesus; for He alone is our Teacher, yet we are to show Honour to leaders. When this passage of change comes to pass my prayer is that the Leader’s of All the Church of Jesus Christ may be ready to distribute all their wealth to the poor as each one returns to their homes and we become house churches throughout the world, walking perhaps as it was in the beginning of the church at Pentacost… The Language of God will be in us all and Love will remain. Therefore, I hope that you all will practice Love.
In Jesus Christ, be cleansed of ALL iniquity; this I pray for myself and the entire church. Amen & amen.
Justin Peters is a great teacher. We would encourage you to look at his teaching on Word of Faith teachers and examine what Peters says about Word of Teachers like Phil Pringle.
“my heart thought that a Kingdom divided shall not stand.”
That is our heart too. Unfortunately, false teachers divide by counterfeiting the truth with their own destructive teachings and thus divide Christ’s church.
“It is Love that we are commanded to do, not to hate;”
Just to make it clear though, we are united in love through our confession of the biblical and historical gospel. (John 16.) It is from the gospel that we get the true definition and meaning of love. If we get our definition from our culture, the love found in church can be corruptible.
“So looking into the Word of Titus 3:2 “To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlers, but gentle, showing all meekness to all men.””
We encourage you to keep reading: “As for a person who stirs up division, after warning him once and then twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned.” Titus 3:10-11
You might want to check out the link at the top of this page ‘C3’s Tirade Brigade’ to see how the movement attacks people while never addressing their questions or concerns. Sadly, there have been many people hurt and destroyed by this man’s movement.
If you choose to investigate yourself, Phil Pringle has falsely prophesied a number of times, twisted God’s word for his personal gain and divides the body of Christ with his prosperity gospel. The worse thing about his behaviour is that he remains unaccountable to anyone to the things he says.
Thank you for your kind words, Churchwatcher. I appreciate the completion in Titus. I have also witnessed before Christ Jesus the error in the church and believe the Lord answered my prayer when I asked Him to lift the spirit of idolatry from one of His ministers. This I am very thankful for that the prayer was for the building of His Kingdom. However, when I did first enter the church I felt I was being used by the laymen and gossiped about. I am not a member of any church yet and am frowned upon by believers because I cannot circumcise to the church; yet I am circumcised in the Spirit and Love and obey God in my life. My desire is to please God and serve Him even in my poverty. The Lord be with you. Peace x
“I am not a member of any church yet and am frowned upon by believers because I cannot circumcise to the church; yet I am circumcised in the Spirit and Love and obey God in my life. My desire is to please God and serve Him even in my poverty.”
May the Lord bless you too. There are a lot of Christians who are disillusioned by the controlling churches of Australia (with Hillsong/C3/AOG background). So you are not alone.
We would also like to warn you about the growing emergent church movement in Australia. It is a postmodern ‘Christian’ movement that is very reactionary to false churches and are united in their doubt and skepticism. It is important you research this movement so you aren’t hoodwinked by them.
May you be in his Word daily so you may spare pain from false churches and movements. We would encourage you to enjoy the radio resources we advertise here so you can mature in Christ and grow in discernment.
God be with you on your journey in His truth.
Went to my last service last night . Been a member for nearly 3 years.Watched pringle get out of his brand new BMW 500 series with his minder then gave a service about vision builders and gave a twist and a spin on the scriptures and the conclusion he came up with was ‘to give’. It’s all about $$$$’s.
Andrew Mackinnon said:
I strongly encourage you to find a good church to attend so that you can have nourishing fellowship with Christians to satisfy your soul in the wake of leaving C3 church. Because I believe that the church of Jesus Christ in the western world has been heavily infiltrated by the occult and because I have strong and definite views about this which I believe would be derided by other Christians in the church in the west, I have avoided attending any other church after leaving C3 Church Oxford Falls in late 2007 (then named Christian City Church Oxford Falls). However, I can tell you that this is a very lonely road and you may find it very difficult to be a Christian without meeting up with other believers. Even if you just find two or three Christians of like-mind to meet with regularly, this would be a great source of fellowship for you.
I’m genuinely interested in your welfare because you’re not the one who should have to suffer from leaving C3 church. It is extremely frustrating to the Body of Jesus Christ that you have to exert a lot of extra effort to find a good church to attend on account of Phil Pringle being a false teacher/leader, but you will really benefit if you do. When you find one, if you have friends at C3 church who are similarly dissatisfied with Phil Pringle as you are, you could invite them to accompany you to your new church to make the transition to a new environment with new people easier for you.
The other viable option is for all the people who are commenting on this website to band together and meet regularly to form a church. I believe that it could be something very worthwhile to actively address a lot of the problems that are discussed on this website. It really doesn’t matter whether anybody among us has a degree in theology. We just need to read the Bible and apply it to our present day context in the year 2013.
It is really starting to appear that there is heavy persecution of Christians building up in the west and that the chief instigators are false teachers/leaders within the church itself pretending to be Christians like Phil Pringle. We need to throw these false teachers/leaders out of the church NOW. This has been a major problem in Australia for the past five years that people have been blogging about extensively over that time and it has been going on for more than three decades. The challenge is that Christians have been conditioned by these false teachers/leaders to be passive and compliant and to follow their false lead over a long period of time. They have been conditioned to believe that Christians who oppose their false teaching/leadership are rebellious.
I look forward to the day that C3 Church Oxford Falls is forced to replace Phil Pringle with authentic Christian leadership so that C3 Church Oxford Falls can be a safe place for all Christians to attend.
I hope that God blesses you, Nathan. As churchwatcher frequently alludes to, God can bless and keep anyone, anywhere He wants. His arm is strong and His concern for your well-being is real and present.
I like what Andrew mentioned about us all coming together from here, in Christ.
However, we are to come together in love and of one accord and speak evil of no-one… Clearly people are leaving the church as they see the ‘man of lawlessness’ sitting where Christ should be… what passage does it talk about the man of lawlessness being revealed and the great falling away occurring. This is sure to happen and those who are in Christ will be led by Him.
God can keep anyone anywhere, even amongst the wolves. For the weeds and the grass grow together and then the harvest happens…
The Lord be with you both.
Peace & love,
Chris Rosenbrough has some good teaching as mentioned above. Fortunately, there now seem to be a large number of ex C3 cult members whose eyes have been opened by God and they are being set free from Pringle’s cultish manipulations. Praise God for this website! Pray for C3Churchwatch and the good work they do.Pray that more cult members will see the bondage they are in.
“We would also like to warn you about the growing emergent church movement in Australia. It is a postmodern ‘Christian’ movement that is very reactionary to false churches and are united in their doubt and skepticism. It is important you research this movement so you aren’t hoodwinked by them.”
What movement are you referring to? Similar to the US Emerging church?
BTW I am an (ex) C3 attender….
It’s a very hard thing to distinguish. We hope to give you a rough and general since this is a very complicated topic. If what we say seems difficult to grasp, please look at the resource below.
To help answer you, Mark Driscoll has tried to distinguish the two. We think he did a reasonable job. However, we do not endorse him and his ministry as he has fallen further into apostasy. Why? He tried to be the ’emerging church’. However, both their ends lead to apostasy. And both are a global phenomena.
From what we know, the differences are this:
The emergent church is seen as a distinguished movement with a unique liberal/marxist identity.
The emerging church however is more of an optional method for churches to adopt worldwide. Rick Warren’s church would be a good example of being an emerging church. He wants to appeal to all faiths and different cultures and at the same time appeal to all denominations. This is why he is so controversial in Christianity and is known as ‘Chameleon Rick Warren’. He is encouraging the church to bend the knee to popular culture rather than Christ.
We would argue that C3 and Hillsong, to hide their embarassing Charismatic/Pentecostal/Word of Faith backgrounds, do the very sam thing. They try to remove what Pringle calls the “cringe factor” from church. However, this means that the gospel wont be preached and the Word of God would be watered down. Sadly, this is exactly what we are seeing.
While the emergent church is a leap into the pit of apostasy, the emerging church is a road that leads to the same end.
Those that endorse the emergent are people that Brian Houston and Phil Pringle are emerging church leaders they look up to, mainly Rick Warren and Bill Hybel.
Both the emergent and the emerging church movements are anti-doctrinal (anti-truth) and elevate deeds not creeds.
Both are incredibly gnostic and mystically driven with the emphasis of the leader/prophet/teacher with the only truth leading people forward. They are innovative with the way they approach the scriptures. For example, Brian MacLaren is bold enough to write books titled “A New Kind of Christianity…”, “The Secret Message of Jesus” and “Everything Must Change “.
However, if you look at the way the ‘Seeker Sensitive’/Emerging Church is going (and churches that wear that skin), they likewise are incredibly innovative with their theology and theological approaches to ministry. For example, Steven Furtick’s egg drop, preaching sermons on movies or emphasising creative expressions over God’s Word and Spirit. Only the ‘teacher/prophet/leader’ in the expression of the emerging church is seen as a true. Not the one who faithfully handle’s God’s Word to mature people in Christ (Ephesians 4).
If you are falling in love with the leaders ‘interpretation’ of scripture and methodologies of ‘winning souls’ to Jesus, you might want to compare what they are saying to God’s Word and leave.
THE EMERGENT CHURCH
The emergent church is a church movement that embraces postmodernism and tries to win the culture to the Lord through postmodern values and language. Some recognised leaders and teachers of this movement are Brian MacLaren, Rob Bell, Doug Pagitt, Tony Jones, Phyllis TickleBut because postmodernism is centered on no absolute truth and is based on subjectivity, it is the culture that defines constructs what truth is to them. This is based on subjective experiences. Therefore what this movement has embraced is liberalism. As a result they could embrace homosexuality, deny the virgin birth, deny the resurrection of Jesus, deny salvation is only found in Jesus, etc. They like to embrace all faiths within their culture or local community. They do not like to be defined and are united in skepticism and doubt rather than in God’s truth.
We will provide to you more information what postmodernism and liberalism are towards the end of this comment.
THE EMERGING CHURCH
The emerging church are churches that embrace culture and keep up with the times by being ‘relevant’. They say they aren’t compromising the message but end up doing so by accidentally engaging with postmodernism’s dance. They are trying to change the methodologies or church layouts, procedures and presentation. Nevertheless, to keep up with the culture’s needs they are walking with the culture into the obscurity of postmodern talk and values. Fortunately, churches can still steer off this road. Sadly, a good example to see who has failed in this approach is Mark Driscoll. He comes across reformed but has been hoodwinked into postmodern culture and language without realising it. We encourage you to tune into ‘Fighting For The Faith’ to listen to his journey.
The Seeker Sensitive/Purpoise Driven churches still carry the word of faith message but have renovated it to appeal to popular culture. This is why you often see churches preach from movies and honour cultural icons and events more than you hear these churches accurately preach from the Word of God. The preacher may elevate your dreams and potential which can have you drooling to have that divine insight the preacher has of God. They may ‘Vision Cast’ or renovate what Christianity is due to revelation God has given them.
Both the emerging and the emergent movements generally elevate the one’s leading. What makes them incredibly deceptive is the way they try to present authentic, real or honest Christianity. They do their best to identify with you where you are at.
So what should you do? Know the one who can identify with you completely: Jesus Christ. Get into the scriptures and get ready to stand before men the way Martin Luther stood before the Diet of Worms:
“Unless I can be instructed and convinced with evidence from the Holy Scriptures or with open, clear and distinct grounds and reasoning—and my conscience is captive to the Word of. God—then I cannot and will not recant, because it is neither safe nor wise to act against conscience. Here I stand. I can do no other. So help me God.”
We are living in similar times where the ‘church’ is starting to hate Christianity.
For more information on this, check out these important resources:
Church Of Tares
RESISTANCE IS FUTILE: YOU WILL BE ASSIMILATED INTO THE COMMUNITY
The Real Roots of the Emergent Church
We strongly urge saints in this hour to cling to God’s Word above all else:
“Do your best to present yourself to God as one approved, a worker who does not need to be ashamed and who correctly handles the word of truth.” 2 Timothy 2:15
And Jim, you and your family are in our prayers. It is hard to find good bible believing and gospel centered churches. May God keep you.
Thank you Saints for the word of warning. For me, if they are not against us, they are for us… I have discovered a few Saints in the churches, that I have visited in the Churches over many years, that are in the light. Journeying to find the Lord Jesus is not an easy task because there are so many men and deceiving spirits determined to guide you and deceive you; as if that were possible for the elect. My concern when I was seeking our Lord was to blaspheme the Holy Ghost. In essence I was tossed to & fro because I did not want to insult the Spirit of Grace. The only unforgivable sin is to blaspheme the Holy Ghost, I believe. Perhaps this is the trouble the weak sisters and brothers are having in the false prophet churches; fear that the spirit that they are following is the Holy Spirit and they do not want to blaspheme the Lord and commit the unforgivable sin!? Just a word of thought. Peace, grace and love to each of you in greater measure, I pray, Amen.
Ex attendee of C3OF here, still looking for a church on the Northern Beaches – any suggestions? As Andrew McKinnon so rightly pointed out, it’s a lonely road and I miss the fellowship of other Christians.
It is tough at the moment to find any good churches. Uniting and Presbyterian churches are very liberal (less so in Queensland). Some Anglican Churches are quite liberal (less so in Sydney). Some Lutheran and Reformed Churches are a hit annd miss.
Some churches claiming to be reformed are jumping on the relevent bandwagon and are on the subtle road to nonsensical Christianity.
Baptists Churches are unpredictable.
That does not mean that they are all bad. You may find the odd church in the above denominations to be very Christ and cross centered.
Believe it or not, there are some very theologically sound and Christ centered pentecostal churches around. They hold to the earlier reformed Pentecostal traditions and reject a lot of the nonsense spouted by a lot of false leaders and teachers today.
In the end it is all about checking what is out there and praying that you find a good church. In the meantime, enjoy some of our resources in our side bar. You can contact some of these people and find out where they can locate a good church in Sydney.
Hope this has helped.
There were woman who prophesied in church in the new testament if you go and research on it. 🙂
I know everyone is entitled to their opinion and that some of you have been hurt because not all C3 churches have set the right example for the masses but just for a second look at what you are saying and doing on this website 🙂 It’s exactly actions like this that are causing a decline of the church in Western culture. The world is divisive enough without current and ex-Christians pulling it down from the inside. The world can see there is no unity because we are behaving just like them so they don’t want any part of it.
If we claim to have Jesus as our Lord and Saviour we should test the word preached to us but sites like this are part of the problem not the solution. Any body can sit behind a computer and criticise, it doesn’t take much faith to tear people down. I would be sooooooooooooooo much more impressed if any of you were studying the word and sharing it the way you believe God is ministering to you, the way you obviously believe these people are lacking. Instead of complaining, be the change you believe God is calling you to be.
Unity is found in the preaching of the biblical gospel and teaching biblical doctrines. Division is found in preaching a false gospel and teaching false doctrines. If you confess you are a disciple of your teacher Jesus Christ, you need to do your scriptural homework before making shallow accusations. Impress us.
If that’s what it takes 🙂 Funnily enough, there is nothing in the bible about unity being found in the preaching of the biblical gospel and teaching biblical doctrines. This is of course one aspect of growth in a believer’s life but if we are going to use this tact as an argument we need to do this in a manner that is biblically accurate.
Upon using the concordance and searching my bible I noted that Paul beseeched us “to have a walk worthy of the calling with which you were called, with all lowliness and gentleness, with long suffering, bearing with one another in love, endeavouring to keep the unity in the bond of peace.” Ephesians 4:1-3. There is nothing at all in this passage about doctrine or teaching, only patience, kindness and gentleness. Furthermore, if this site fostered unity there would be a peace that followed with it and there is not, just a lot of hurt and anger. Hurting people have a habit of hurting others, I should know- even though I grew up in a Christian family who taught me good values I was abused sexually as a child and young adult by an older relative of my father and as a result for many years my words and actions were so toxic that I don’t blame anybody any more for not wanting to be around me.
Paul goes on to explain unity in Ephesians 4:4-6 by saying that “there is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.” Inspired by God Paul writes that we are all one body, so why is the one body tearing itself apart from the inside? Have any of you seen a disease that destroys the body from the inside? Cancer and autoimmune conditions are only a couple but it only takes a few cells or an external stimuli to be introduced to cause the body to deteriorate either through uncontrolled growth of toxic mutations or because the body is attacking itself. I have Hashimoto’s Thyroiditis, a medically incurable autoimmune condition where the immune system attacks the thyroid. Thankfully mine was caught early but I struggle to lose weight, I will forever have a goiter and if I ever try to fall pregnant I will have to be watched closely by a team of medical professionals to ensure that I develop a healthy foetus and do not spontaneously miscarry. If this condition is left untreated it destroys the body’s metabolic system so you gain weight and retain water, you are in a permant lethargic state and if you are a woman you can be left infertile or unable to carry a child to full term. This is the sort of thing that we are doing by attacking one another rather than the real enemy. An army that attacks itself has no power and is rightly a source of ridicule because they look ridiculous.
I shall preface this next part by saying that C3 is not my home church, I am part of a phenomenal church family elsewhere. What I cannot and will not stand for is people attacking a church, whether it is deserved or not. I fully understand being hurt or misled by church leadership, in the time I have been at my church we have seen multiple leadership hand overs, huge debts we are only just paying off due to financial mismanagement and sexual immorality that tore the church apart. We now have a pastor who is not only strong as a leader and father figure to the church but also a man who imparts sound biblical doctrine and is teaching me to study the word. Who are we as God’s creation to judge what others believe God has called them to do? If it is not of God it will not last (Acts 5:38) but in the mean time if we resign ourselves to judge others critically God will use that same measure to judge us.(Matthew 7:1-2) The greatest commandment Jesus gave us is to love God with all our heart, mind and spirit and out of that love, love others as we love ourselves so in love I ask you to focus on the plank in your own eye before you look at the speck in theirs. The most famous verse about love is 1 Corinthians 13:4-7 “love suffers long and is kind; love does not envy; love does not parade itself, is not puffed up; does not behave rudely, does not seek it’s own, is not provoked, thinks no evil, does not rejoice in iniquity, but rejoices in the truth; bears all things, believes all things, endures all things.” We cannot pick and choose what aspects of God’s love apply to our walk and others, it doesn’t work that way. This is further supported in Galatians 5:14-15 which says “for all the law is fulfilled in one word, even in this’You shall love you neighbour as yourself.’ But if you bite and devour one another, beware lest you be consumed by one another.” 1 Corinthians 13:13 says “and now abide faith, hope and love, these three; but the greatest of all is love”. What is loving about this site, all I see here is more reasons why people won’t join the church, we can’t even love our fellow brothers and sisters even when we think their doctrine is unsound. This site fosters a sense of false humility, “at least we are not like those people”. False humility is pride in disguise and is just as dangerous as unsound doctrine because both move an individual away from the heart of God.
Just remember Alice to be careful of how you respond to information on this site as you may be accused of being connected to C3 as churchwatcher did to me in the past.
I’m curious about churchwatcher as he only seems to mainly target c3, hillsong and city harvest church
If i was to go out and be critical of churches I would then add these to the list 🙂
Church of Christ
Seven day adventist which is labeled in most church circles as a cult.
Presbyterian is legalistic and they have a court setup for disputes where man rules over them and not God. Also believe in John Calvin teachings which is false as I found out by talking to a presbyterian member. Did you know Jesus did not come to die and save all ?? that is also what a presbyterian pastor told me.
Catholic church does idols ring a bell here??
I’ll not go on as you can research these churches for yourself. 🙂
I am a rather new member of a C3 Church. I do recognize some of the critics, like every sunday a few minutes teaching about offerings and tithing.
They may be a bit pushy in this, but they don’t force anybody, and they also point out that you should net get into trouble by giving to much. Also they preach that you can help in church anyway you can, some people give more, some people give less and do more, some can do both. Together we all make the church.
Also, they do teach you straight from the bible, during the service, and in the connect groups, and in training that you can follow if you like.
They are growing, and have plans to expend C3 around the world, to serve more people and to have more people give their live to Jesus, which can’t be bad.
And with the power of Jezus, and the power of the word, I am convinced that if people are won for Jezus, by C3, but they don’t like some aspects of C3, they are free to join any other church.
I like the be yourself mentality, the open, one big family feeling. You don’t have to suit up, no probem if you are not there every sunday. They are donw to earth, modern, and know about the modern day life challenges.
About the tithing, building a church cost lots of money. And everybody knows that we also pay a lot of taxes, and what the goverment does with all this money, I am convinced C3 people are not perfect, but they take better care of the church spending then the goverments do with the tax spending !
But keep up the critics, it keeps everybody sharp.
Please help me understand why C3 church is dangerous?
Joe Hallam said:
It teaches the false doctrine of prosperity, leading people away from God’s truth, and ultimately to Hell…
I am a pastor in Canada and am unfamiliar with the C3 churches but I am familiar with similar blogs in North America dedicated to bashing different Christian ministries declaring themselves somehow to be doing God’s work in the process. While every church group has its own distinctions and emphasis, one should not ‘destroy the work of God for the sake of food’ (paraphrase from Romans). Some people are able to preach about finance, tithing and giving with a clear conscience while others preach doctrines of cessationism and that the Holy Spirit is somehow powerless to act in the present age while others teach on the Godhead or end times with different approaches..but Paul said that as long as Jesus was preached he would support that as the true gospel. I suppose that you will continue your self appointment without covering or counsel…claiming Jesus himself told you to do this…but I doubt that God is in this at all.
“.but Paul said that as long as Jesus was preached he would support that as the true gospel”
You might want to read the entire letter before twisting Paul’s words and bashing us with your hypocrisy.
Why defend the dogs that Paul himself condemns? God has made it clear to the church that he wants us to have nothing to do with false teachers.
Your ignorance on such fundamental truths is concerning.
churchwatcher your response to being questioned is not also a good christian attitude as it comes across as nasty to anyone that disagrees with you. From an outside person looking in, it does not look good as a whole.
Sure we all would love to see correct teaching in all churches, how do we know that what you confess to believe is also not without fault??
“Sure we all would love to see correct teaching in all churches, how do we know that what you confess to believe is also not without fault??”
Firstly, we openly encourage discernment. We emphatically tell commentors to read their bibles. We continually tell people to test everything that is said to the Word of God – including what we say.
We are sure to say things that are not right – and we are open to people emailing or posting us corrections. We consider everyone’s responses. We even acknowledge our unapproved comments that contain foul and abusive language.
By all means – challenge what we believe or ask the hard questions. However we deliberately try not to focus on issues like calvinism/arminianism or cessationism or end time discussions. We hope to tackle doctrinal issues that both sides can see eye to eye on.
You’re painting with a broad brush are you not, Vince? I wonder if Paul would have supported the ministries then of say Jim Jones or even David Koresh? I suspect we are supposed to exercise a modicum of common sense when using Bible quotations?
Would you mind putting your name/s and face/s up on your website, so people really seeking the truth can make an informed decision as to your character/s as well as the people you appear bent on diminishing. Using the objective-logic you propound, that would only seem fair and reasonable don’t you think?
They never would put their details on here as it would incriminate them for something else. I do sort of wonder who Tony Dean is (watchmen from downunder). Been doing some search on facebook the last few days. Also church watcher profile also says that he is american but living in singapore.
Will continue to do more snooping around 🙂
I for one would like to know your name as we’ll. You seem to be angry and judgmental. Do you think God is unaware of what’s going on down here? God I believe is able to set things right a little better than you. The purpose of the blog is to convince others that your point of view is correct rather than to seek out the truth.
I actually think Presbyterian church is a cult if you look into the background structure of the church especially in the USA.
Joe Hallam said:
C3 and Hell$ong are in NO WAY put in place by God…they are allowed by Him to be there to sort out the sheep from the goats…”having a form of Godliness”…These apostate churches are thriving because of the DECEPTION of these last days…
I am a member of a C3 Church, and after reading all of your comments and blogs, I can say that your opinion and statements are completely false. Although you are entitled to your own opinion, I have found none of your statements to be true from my years as a member of C3 Church.
It’s sad that “Christians” are trying to hurt each other on an online forum and sway non-believers from being somewhere where the Gospel is being preached and Jesus remains the number one priority.
Maybe this is why people call us hypocrites….we can’t even agree on what’s important.
Austinlarg…. I request that you immediately retract your statement that “your opinions and statements are completely false” or, at the very least, make note of an exception for any post that I have made.
Your statement that “I have found none of your statements to be true from my years as a member of C3 Church” is utterly insulting to me. Just where did you check any statements or facts that I have posted? You have made the claim so please now provide me with details of what research you did.
My statements regarding the misbehaviour of Phil Pringle and my personal experience with him (and all others at C3 I have mentioned) are absolutely accurate and I am prepared to present you with a signed Affidavit to that effect at any time you request it!
If you can get Mr. Pringle to refute, by way of a signed Affidavit, my claims about his behaviour during my family’s tragedy then I would be REALLY pleased. That would be a “gotcha” moment! Perjuring oneself by signing a false Affidavit goes beyond “misbehaviour” and is a criminal offence!
(I don’t think it would be too pleasing to God either by the way! But that may or may not bother Mr. Pringle.)
Please advise if you able to extract a signed Affidavit from Mr. Pringle regarding my account of his behaviour during my family’s traged as outlined when we were members of C3. I would think he would jump at the chance to provide you with such a document if he wishes to “clear” himself of any accusations I have made regarding his his behaviour as experienced by me and my family.
PLEASE!!!!! Do it!!! And I look forward to your response. And I REALLY look forward to your giving an account to the readers on this site of his reaction when asked to sign an Affidavit as to the events.
I am outraged that you have questioned my integrity by your post and ask that, as a Christian, you immediately withdraw it or at least eliminate me from your charges.
kreewater – I will say that me telling you that your opinion is false is unfair. After all, it is your opinion. So for that, I apologize. Let me try to clarify what I want to say:
Everything you’ve said is foreign to me. I’ve been in C3 for a few years at a leadership level and have not seen anything remotely close to what you claim. Am I saying you’re wrong? No. I’m just saying I haven’t seen that.
If what you’re saying is true (which it very well could be), then I’m sorry that you had such an experience. I’m not Pastor Phil Pringle so I can’t defend him.
This is what I HAVE experienced at C3 Church:
1) people keeping me accountable in life
2) encouragement to raise my child and honor my wife as a husband should
3) being challenged to be a man and take care of my responsibilities versus making excuses for things that have not happened
4) a new revelation of God’s goodness and grace to me
5) people coming into relationship with Jesus every week and being discipled weekly and groomed into a strong believer in Christ
6) a culture of worship that isn’t based on emotions or feelings; but on truth
Just a few of the things that happen on a weekly basis at the C3 Church that I go to. What you’ve created here is offensive to all Christians who go to C3 Church and the Pastors and leaders who pour out their hearts into building God’s kingdom. You’ve taken your experience with just a handful of people in C3 Church and generalized that across the board. That is not fair.
Again, if what you claim is true, then you have every right to be upset, hurt, disappointed, defensive, etc. But please do not generalize us all into one category based on your incident with a handful of people from C3 Church.
Austinlarg, the following is posted with respect:
1. You said “your opinions and statements are completely false” and then you go on to discuss “STATEMENTS” and NOT opinions. So, that is a very unsatisfactory way of trying to skirt around the fact that you made a very serious allegation against my integrity.You say you are in leadership at C3. Then isn’t Phil Pringle your overseer? Or your leader? Or your man at the top? Are you publicly disassociating yourself from his actions and his words? If so, what on earth are you doing serving as a leader in a C3 Church? You questioned my STATEMENTS, Austinlarg, and not, as you try to say in your backflp now, my “opinions”.
2 “IF what I am saying is correct”!!!!! Austinlarg, people in leadership at C3 simply don’t seem to be able to help themselves when it comes to impugning other people’s integrity in order to defend C3. “IF”??? You just can’t help yourselves can you? Did you not read that I was only too willing to sign an Affidavit regarding the matter?
3. How dare you even suggest that what I have “CREATED” here is offensive to all Christians who go to C3 church and to Pastors and Leaders who “pour out their hearts into building God’s Kingdom! ”
4. A “handful” of people from C3 Church? A handful! A handful which INCLUDES the “Chief poo-bah”! You cannot be serious.
Here we have just another person in leadership at C3 QUESTIONING THE INTEGRITY OF THE VICTIMS of these bullies inbstead of getting off their backsides and DOING something about correcting those who are the perpetrators.
It leaves me wondering just what version of the Bible the leaders at C3 use. I don’t see one single solitary reference anywhere in the Bible where we are told to question the victim’s integrity and to defend the bullies.
5. As to your 6 points of what you “HAVE” experienced at C3 church, I will pay you the courtesy of NOT saying “IF you have experienced…..” those things at C3. I, unlike you, accept that what you say is the truth.
6. Instead of washing your hands (as did Pontious Pilate) in order to disassociate yourself from the actions of this “handful” of LEADERs at C#3, might I most humbly ask why you are not outraged and demanding explanations from them……… I suspect that is what Jesus would have done!
7. The fish rots from the head down, Austinlarg!
What worries me about places like this website is we do not know how this affects readers, especially new Christians. Outsiders would be turned away from God through the actions of people on here and in real life.
I want to ask the question here, all churches except the independent ones have a central management right?? Wouldn’t the actions of the central management in any church bring that group of churches in disrepute??
We can go through many scandals on here from C3, City Harvest, Hillsong, Presbyterian, Baptist, Church Of Christ and more. These scandals in history would discredit every single church organisation in the world.
Now the independent churches would be the way to go wouldn’t it?? No central management to bring them down, if they go bad it only affects that group.
The news I was amazed at was the Presbyterian church ordaining gay ministers in the US. My friend who attends a Presbyterian church here in Perth tries to tell me they are not linked to the US churches but still they are under the same banner therefore all tainted right??
Time to quit all churches and just stay at home, maybe this is the safer option. I’m sort of guessing this is what some here are getting at on this site??
Joe Hallam said:
Are you still under the tithing curse?…at the end, you say, ”before you invest in”…be careful, as God does not need people’s money, but Satan’s little churchianity clubs do…
Joe do you understand what tithing is?? It was someone that was part of the old testament times. With new testament times it became a free will offering. I guess if we all totally stopped our free will offerings as well then all churches would cease to exist.
Ok did a small typo on my last reply, meant to say something not someone.
Joe Hallam said:
Yes, I do, and I know what it isn’t…It isn’t mentioned in the New Testament AT ALL….Perhaps you could enlighten me as to where ”free will offering” of MONEY, appears in The New Testament…You clearly attend one of these entertainment centres that masquerade as a church, as your moronic, and offensive name implies, and…let me guess…you read the ”Message” perversion. You are a people pleaser, If you want to please God, stop giving money to greedy prosperity pimps, and start blessing people with the truth of the gospel. Throw that NIV and message away and stick with the King James Bible…you will be blessed for doing so.
I actually do not attend a big church, we have about 30 people where I go. Now as for 10% that was mentioned in old testament times. Now in new testament time there were free will offerings made to the church. Offerings to the church in bible times could be of anything you own, livestock to land or whatever.
Do you know the story of Ananias and Sapphira who sold what they had to give to the church but lied and kept a portion of what they owned and were struck down.
Offerings to the church have always been there from old testament times to new testament times.
Now I wonder if your a christian at all because if you are then you would not have responded to me in the manner you clearly have. As for the name i use on here i am a game dev and I make games to teach and learn.
I really suggest you go look at yourself before you attack anyone on here
Taken from the King James Bible
34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
35 And laid them down at the apostles’ feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.
36 And Joses, who by the apostles was surnamed Barnabas, (which is, being interpreted, The son of consolation,) a Levite, and of the country of Cyprus,
37 Having land, sold it, and brought the money, and laid it at the apostles’ feet.
Basically offerings of land and whatever else was offered to the church and distributed among the church members to help benefit all.
Now the church I attend all free will offerings go towards the costs of hiring the building, the pastor does not draw a wage from it at all. He has a regular everyday job to survive. The money that is left over is put back into local community activities. which I am a part of every week. Friday nights I am involved in a food outreach which is only one small part of what we do. Last Christmas we made 150 hampers to give to poor families here.
I love helping wherever I can.
Joe Hallam said:
They were stealing money from the Apostles, and when they were caught, they lied about their crime to avoid punishment…sounds like Kong Hee and his harlot…they too will not escape punishment. See how you try to twist this to make it about present day tithing…instead of it being about the judgement of sin in the church. I know for a FACT that you are an apostate Christian, that is why you take the name above all names in blasphemy and deception,are you ashamed of your own name? Or is it that you just feel inadequate…Lastly, what authority do you have to tell me what manner I can respond with? Christians are commanded to judge false teaching within the church, I also suggest you stop playing those games, as electronic murder is still murder…even though you might think that it is ”only a game”.
I do not play violent games at all, I am actually against violent media as it is not needed for enjoyment.
You responded to me in a nasty way which is not becoming of a christian. Also I suggest you reread acts chapter 4-5 and you will see the people of the day were donating to the church. If you cannot understand this then you are lost my friend.
I am against the R rating for games in australia, not all games are violent and I am against all forms of violence in tv and games. You can have enjoyment and still avoid the violence that is out there.
Now a christian who attacks another in a nasty way whether it is by text or voice is not a true christian at all, if you can’t understand that then you are lost my friend.
I have a website for christian gaming, it was setup as a discussion piece to prove that you can still play games and avoid the violence. If you also think I play violent games then you are totally wrong.
The old covenant required 10 percent. The new covenant does not specify a percentage, nor do we. However, the new covenant admonishes people to give what they can, and tithing still provides an instructive point of comparison. For some people, 10 percent may be too much. But some will be able to give more, and some are doing so. Christians should examine their own circumstances and the better blessings they have been given in the new covenant through the atoning sacrifice of Jesus Christ for us and the gift of the Holy Spirit to us. Contributions should be given to the church for its collective work of preaching the gospel and the expenses involved in the local ministry and congregational needs.
Likewise, the new covenant does not specify any particular percentage for assisting the poor. Instead, it asks for equity — and we certainly have room for improvement in this.
The old covenant required simple percentages. Everyone knew how much was required. The new covenant has no set percentages. Instead, it requires more soul-searching, more training for the conscience, more selfless love for others, more faith, more voluntary sacrifice and less compulsion. It tests our values, what we treasure most, and where our hearts are.
I don’t tithe but I do give freely when I can afford to do so.
So Joe Hallam your part of the KJO (King James Only) movement right??
You may find this an interesting read
There are many Christians who do not understand the very serious nature of the King James Only heresy. They suppose that KJVers prefer the 1611 Bible over all other translations, believe that it is the very best of English versions, and perhaps use the KJV to the exclusion of all other Bibles. Unfortunately the King James Only movement goes far beyond such a moderate belief and practice. Instead it teaches that the KJV is the one and only perfect Bible and that all modern translations are corruptions of the Word of God. Christians who do not exclusively use and defend the KJV as the perfect Word of God are viewed as disobedient and/or ignorant. King James Onlyism teaches that true blue KJVers should separate from their less obedient brethren, or at least diligently seek to win them to “The Truth.” Those who teach these false views frequently display a smug confidence that they alone are the true defenders of the Word of God. More extreme forms teach that people can only be saved through the words of the AV 1611. Some KJV advocates teach that foreign language Bibles which were not made directly from the KJV or which do not closely conform to the KJV are not the Word of God and should not be used on the mission field, in some cases destroying people’s faith in the only Bible which they have. Various forms of such false doctrine have run rampant in conservative Christian churches, and especially so among fundamental Baptists.
Joe Hallam said:
No, I just prefer the KJV, I know I can trust that it has not had many verses REMOVED as have the catholic and the homo friendly versions. But you keep going with your New International Perversion, the Queen James, or the ”Message”…lol not even classed as a BIBLE! Or, perhaps, Brian(”you need more money”)Houston’s latest version will tickle your ears…”The Word”, complete with subliminal image of the veri chip technology on the front cover!…What the ….? Or, why not wait for Dope Francis and the U.N. to enlighten you with a muslim friendly version? You see, my blasphemous friend, it all depends on your discernment of the truth. The gospel is constantly warning us to NOT BE DECEIVED…It always puzzles me why any person who claims to be a Christian…would attack the most accurate and trustworthy word of God…
I have not once here attacked the King James Bible at all here as I actually prefer the King james over other translations. My mention of the fact there are some that take the King James Only stand to the extreme, which was mentioned in my last comment on here.
I don’t agree with Hillsong or Phil Pringle on a lot of doctrinal things. My church I attend has no connection to any Pentecostal church. It was funny how you assumed so much about me and where I stand on things.
Now I believe the King James is the most accurate, the only issue is the old english style can be easily misunderstood by so many christians.
Now you know my first name is Alan(not the same as the other that has posted here) but I am not dumb enough to post my full name on any public forums or other social media.
What I find is hilarious here is how you somehow thought I attacked the King James Bible on here.
The church I attend is an independent church that has no affiliation with anyone from Hillsong, C3 or CHC.
I do have a few questions for you Joe??
Does your church take some kind of collection from the attendees each time you have a service??
If not then how can your church survive with no money at all?? Do they run a business within your church??
If I can chime in on bible translation. In my study, I have seen over and over that the NEW AMERICAN STANDARD VERSION is the most accurate translation of scripture from the original manuscripts that exists today. King James Version I believe is runner-up.
When i study it is always good to have other translations to compare to. I will say that I have never used NIV, good news or The Word bible translations.
I use a free study program called e-sword which also matches up the KJV with both greek and hebrew translations.
I too, favour the New American Standard Bible, Alan, because as a very new Christian many, many years ago, I used to listen to people read from their Bibles in our home group and was, time and time again, brought to tears by the beautiful (dare I say “poetic “) sound of the words. Now I refer to one of five different translations when in doubt and am seeking clarification, but always find myself returning to the New American Standard.
The point is, I think, that whether we are told “Someone is knocking at the door” or “Someone is ringing the door bell”, the message is the same- we know that someone is letting us know that they are at our door!! As long as we don’t rely on some of the more “questionable” tranlsations or paraphrases, I think the Spirit will speak to us whatever translation we choose to read. Words are not as important as the message itself, in my view.
It is funny when i question the admin on here about a certain person that he doesn’t let my message to be seen. Maybe i hit the nail on the head of who the such person is 🙂
Those types of comments are automatically deleted. We don’t need angry emails or threats of defamation. This has been used on us before.
Continual name-dropping will result in expulsion from this website. We do not want people’s families, friends and communities threatened and treated badly by these cults.
Actually nothing I said then was an attack it was just a question. There was no threat made at all by anything I said 🙂
Hey churchwatcher you attend a reformed church right?? was something I read on here and other sites you own. I’m curious to know what is the difference from a reformed church compared to other Protestant churches.
Alan, there are different “denomination” groups commenting here. Some Reformed, some Charismatic, some Reformed Charismatic, some Pentecostal. The shared concern between the people commenting here is the issue of false teaching and the slippery slope of liberalism.
Generally Presbyterian, Anglican and Baptist churches hold to Reformed theology. The group New Frontiers (with great churches here in Australia) are charismatic reformed.
If you want a good description of reformed theology you will find it here
How does this line up with the theology of Hillsong and C3?
I have a friend of mine in sydney that has suggested while I’m here to go visit. I believe you know this church very well 🙂
“The opinions expressed on this site do not necessarily represent the views of all contributors. Each individual is responsible for the facts and opinions contained in his posts. Generally we agree but not always.”
So no women?
“I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet.” 1 Timothy 2:12 (NIV)
Of course! You guys continue to take this instruction from Paul out of context, even to the point of not allowing women to join your little cult it seems, presumably fearful that if you allow a woman to write here she will be teaching you and you will be in a state of on-going sin and unable to repent. So best not to allow that to happen. Perfectly understandable. Not.
Pretty ridiculous statement Newtaste – If you think a discernment blog is equivalent to a church, perhaps you need to either find a real one or leave the one you’re attending? When we read the bible we don’t see any instructions about discernment blogs disqualifying women from commenting. You can double-check here:
Truth be told, Kong Hee is linked to ex-methodist pastor Isaac Lim who is his godfather and his secret links in Xtron to get Festival Of Praise to source love gifts in undeclared $$$$$ from unsuspecting churches to donate annually to the tune of millions by-passing IRA taxes. in fact even they declare tax rebates 2.5X which attracts rich donors to give so they can gain back 2.5x more to avoid taxes !!!!
Isaac channels funds from churches to his godson KH to Xtron for Video fees and guess where it ends up in pockets of the same gang of crooks. Shame on them.
Ex-worker at NCCS says mentor James Wong has properties bought hidden from taxes in Australia ! KH bought with rich Indonesian businessman co-founder of City Harvest a multimillion Sentosa Cove Bungalow – guess where they got funds from!
I’m a former member and to be honest, I only left because I felt God wanted me to develop my faith in a more organic environment (I didn’t fit in at c3 despite serving as a kids minister there for years). As someone who served there, there were definitely things that made me uncomfortable such as them preaching to kids to give them money and when it came to small groups, I would gear the topic away from money and focus more upon the kids giving their hearts and trust into Jesus, which I felt was more important. And I wasn’t the only one, there are lots of people who serve in leadership positions that do their best to keep Jesus at the heart of the message and project it well too. There is definitely a specific culture in the church that can make people uncomfortable but I didn’t find anything particular dangerous (maybe because I was surrounded by those who truly loved Jesus). So I won’t discount the church entirely and to be honest, I believe God, at the end of the day, is the best judge for them.
Lillmango – true story, how would you feel if a child was told that God WILL speak to him (apart from His Word) and that same child is devastated because God doesn’t? That’s what litte kids are taught and it’s wicked. How long before these same children are pulled aside by deceiving spirits because they believe it IS God speaking to them?
Yes, there are people there who think they can bring about change – they have been saying it for years, and nothing’s changed.
You say “I believe God, at the end of the day, is the best judge for them.” I say, in the end God WILL judge them.
I have seen and experienced this behaviour myself. It is tantamount to child abuse. It can leave a child psycholigically damaged for a long, long time. The sooner these idiots are dealt with the better. Also so-called “prophets”who are nothing short of “fortune tellers” should be dealt with. It used to be against the law and carried a gaol term for telling people’s fortunes! I’l like to see that law brought back!!!!!! That would get rid of most of them!!!!
The Bible is pretty clear on what will happen to those who cause little ones to stumble!!!!! But clearly many of these church leaders haven’t read their Bibles or they would be behaving with a little more care!
Joe Hallam said:
Wow, so sorry that you were made to feel ”uncomfortable” by the lust for cash at C3…the fact that you witnessed them fleecing the children is disgraceful enough, but you seem to think that it was somehow your fault for not ”fitting in”…? Please, let the word of God guide you and grant you a titanium spine so you can righteously judge these money hungry wolves! Glad you got out from that toxic, false teaching franchise. God will bless you.
So sad to read the above negative feelings & thoughts. In one I read, God did cause the holocaust, etc. God did not. Mankind did. We were all given a higher brain than any other species. we think for ourselves, we make responsible or irresponsible decisions, depending on our conscience. Blaming C3 in general is almost laughable. Only I’m not laughing. Every Church has it’s flaws. Take the Catholic Church as an example. What are it’s teachings? FEAR of God. Judgement day. We are all sinners & it is up to each of us to follow the path of Jesus. Jesus is by our side each & every day, moment. However, you are responsible for whatever you do, be it honest or dishonest. Choosing to be a murderer, rapist, pedaphile (Catholic Church eg of serious abuse of its power over the helpless & young with the tongue of the devil). As for C3, unlike when I was a Catholic, is not full of rituals that in the end mean nothing, is a joyful experience. At least it is for me to the one I attend. I cannot say that for all C3 churches, but when I attend mine, I walk out with the Holy Christ in my soul & yet had been an atheist for over 40 years. I was not coerced to attend. I found my way there & I found God, love, compassion & forgiveness of all my troubled days when I followed a destructive path for many years. I feel free of all those bonds & know I can turn to God when times are really hard. I love the fact we sing with great joy to our Lord. I love the fact I am learning so much what the Bible says. As for the issue of “tithing”, every Church expects you to do that. Yes, that is in the Bible.
Thank you my little C3 church I attend. Without it I’d be lost in the shadow of grief & depression after my brother died. My church family was so supportive. God bless you all. Just remember, it’s not God that creates evil, but mankind. It is up to you, each of you, to change, to be caring, to show love to your fellow mankind, to show compassion, to take responsibility for all the atrocities created by man. God isn’t going to change you. You must need to change yourself.
I am an X-C3er and supported them over my 10 years, my $$$ gifts were to God not to a Church. My exit was due to the change in worship and my wife refused to attend, and I discovered a small struggling local church that is inclusive. I must thank God for C3 movement as I came to Christ and while I am in a new season I feel my thoughts and energy should be put into obeying and building His Kingdom. NOT to LOOK back! I would recommend to this blogger he/she would be better to move on and put their energies into something productive.for the Lord. Paul wrote that some preach out of wrong motives however the Gospel is preached ( at C3). We should all focus on what we can do, the Bible does not promote gossip and meaningless chatter, we will all be judged for our fruit, we are not fruit inspectors but fruit producers.
Did anyone else hear or was I delusional… when Ps Pringle named in the Sunday Service … K J Rowlings as the top of his most inspirational people of this decade list??
Are we lifting up Jesus or the author of those evil books. Tragic!
Not at all.
He condensed that sermon into a blog article. It appears he considers JK Rowling to be some faith-filled visionesque Christian inspiration. Read it here:
Way back in the dark ages of 1987, back when Fairfax regularly covered religion, Phil Pringle was mentioned in the SMH, (along with Frank Houston). Maybe you could investigate why Pringle was wearing white suits to church back then? Rather odd. http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1301&dat=19871102&id=wCtWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=uuQDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6365,895016
Could we have a coffee somtime? Are you on the Northern Beaches? Went to C3 30 years ago and left to do ministry in another denomination and got a theology degree but have been back there over the last few weeks trying to find a good church. Would like to get my head around this, but too time consuming to read it all.
Email us. We will discuss things from there. Good luck finding a faithful church. You’ll be in our prayers.
Does anybody know what happened to David Holmes? Or Mick Martin? Or Katya Winspear?
Mick Martin was pastoring at The Upper Room : http://www.theupperroom.org.au/site/
An emergent church.
Dave Holmes – http://www.hopeacademy.com.au/David_Holmes_BIO.html
Katya Winspear – Little Lyrics – Children’s Music, Birthday Parties, Children’s shows : http://www.littlelyrics.com.au/
Tony A said:
I comment rarely but I’m in the mood. All I can say is, there will always be C3 churches and the like because people are ignorant and stupid. You can’t change that and you can’t really stop them in believing this deceit except perhaps, for a very few.
Instead of trying to “keep the b………s honest” we should spend our time finding the true way. There is a way out for those who want it and for those who want to stay let them keep on believing the nonsense.
Think for yourself and wise up.
Well, we were warned @ Tony A….
2 Timothy 4:3-4 “For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.”
I was shocked to see that this building had recently opened in Watson in north Canberra beside the Southern Cross Ten studios. http://i.imgur.com/YTk8SQN.jpg Of course you guys would be quintuply shocked – the pastor is, shock horror, a woman! http://www.c3churchwatson.com http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ulGIkw153q8
I spent many years in penty circles and saw power grabs, splits, conflicts of interest and the constant begging for more money for “God ordained” things like new marble bench tops, a café, overseas trips for pastors. I also many “pastors” with no formal qualifications or only in house qualifications such as attending their own college they set up to ensure their agenda is taught and followed. Questioning and objectivity was frowned upon. We were told not only to save sinners but save people in other denominations and bring them to the “one true church”. Every penty place I went too was a target audience church – they wanted a certain look and demographic and I saw first hand elders ask lower socio economic people or people with issues/mental health dramas etc to move on and try and different church. All the penty churches – big or small – used money for pretty bad purposes and not for outreach or genuine social justice or social care. Big churches needed to get bigger and small churches want to be like the big ones.
I know of several families who were bankrupted because they gave and gave and gave to the church on the promise of a massive return from God or false personal prophecy.
I also was sick of being bailed up by all the AMWAY people and it sickened me that they flocked/competed for every new person who came in door. EVERY penty church I have been to had AMWAY peeps in it. It seems AMWAY, pyramid schemes, wealth, greed, money, prosperity and penty churches go hand in hand.
Then about 4 years ago I decided to go back to where church began. I was sick of hearing from someone’s skewed theology, self taught ideology and hearing contradictions between guest speakers. And it led me to the Orthodox Church.
I have never looked back. Never had such peace, love and reverence. Never had such great truth teaching. I am home.
(WAM)tv (SOPCast) said:
These false teachers are not “corrupting” those following them, but are the judgment of God Who has sent exactly what they wanted! False teachers! Anyone who is looking for God WILL Find Him! And those looking for someone to “tickle their ears”, will find that also! This is what Scripture teaches and it is even evident from the comments here! Those seeking God have seen the Corruption, and left! Those who are seeking kind words, no judgment, 7 fold back for their Filthy Lucre Tithes, and a god who is mute and tolerates anything, have seen nothing wrong with C3!
Keep up the good work with this site. I am an atheist, but I have witnessed and heard of many worrying occurrences within this church. From my brother being tormented by the church members for leaving, being offered to “make a little extra money”, only to be driven to an Amway conference at a C3, by a sadly misdirected fellow, to many other first hand apocalyptic horror stories.
I remember vividly, going to the small local church growing up, and where as I have been an atheist for nearly 20 years now, I still remember the basic philosophies of the Catholic faith. Simply to be empathetic and compassionate to your fellow human beings. be humble and gentle. I don’t remember much more than giving my 20 cents to the collection plates, without all the painful guilt and fear inducing sermons about giving. If you cannot see anything wrong with the way C3 operates, then unfortunately you have a lot of learning to do. When you do leave, or are spat out of this church, don’t feel too silly. It’s not the mistakes you make, but how you learn from your mistakes, and the things you do next which determine who you are. Not Pringle!
Alexander Watson said:
I love this – it completely validates why I LOVE C3!! I’ve been a Christian for over a decade and been attending c3 for 10yrs this year. The power passion and biblically based principal that our pastors teach and lead by is second to none!!
C3 is UNASHAMED about talking about controversial topics and pushing the status quo – we are comfortable with the uncomfortable!
Yes there may be controversies and issues but when isn’t there in such a large organization? No one is perfect – and I’m yet to find any impartial reporting on this site
Hi Alexander. Christianity is UNASHAMED about preaching the controversial gospel of Jesus Christ (it can get you killed). So our question to you is this: What is the gospel – and do you believe it?
“Yes there may be controversies and issues but when isn’t there in such a large organization? No one is perfect – and I’m yet to find any impartial reporting on this site”
Downplay fallacy – appealing to evil as the ultimate standard to silence people. Since when does financially destroying people and covering up pedophilia in the name of Jesus the appropriate behaviour of your head pastor.
Joe Hallam said:
You ”love c3” because you hate the truth…
I think you’ve learned too much c3-speak.
Oh, your comment “….is second to none!!” proves you go to c3 mate. It’s all about th look, the image, “Your Best Life”. I too spent 10 years there listening to the hype, hype, hype.
I’m not saying leave – I’m saying to “work out your own salvation”. Step back, examine the doctrine against the Bible (not their interpretation), be honest with yourself, and maybe you’ll feel a weight literally lift off your shoulder like I did.
That’s in reference to Alexander BTW
C3 church teaches based on everything that the bible says. Its messages are always backed by scripture, not manipulated. the bible says jesus christ wants our hearts, and our hearts are tied to our money. Believe what you want, but dont pick n choose what you want to follow in the bible. Ive seen time n time again when giving my first fruits, like the bible says, that my needs were met in life….like an old bank acct coming to light, or a job offer in the nick of time, car payments lowered because ironically we owed more on our old car than we thought….foodstamps increase to maximum benefits….i could keep going. Just because there are those without enough faith in gods word to provide for us when giving up that in which our heart is tied to, or offering our first fruits, doesnt mean it isnt so. There was but one amendment book to the bible, the new testament. We cant change it around to accomidate how our lives have changed over generations. As it was then, so it is now. The power of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit has not diminished, so ask yourselves if it was just your faith that has.
“C3 church teaches based on everything that the bible says”? On what do you base that statement, Chris? On what you are reading yourself in the Bible OR on what C3 claims? I attended C3 for years and heard a great deal of unmitigated garbage preached which had nothing whatsoever to do with what I read in my own Bible BUT usually had a great deal to do with manipulating people into hearing what C3 leaders wanted me to hear. The common thread throughout comments such as the one you have posted which worries me greatly is this – there seems to be tendency to equate “giving” and “tithing” to what you will receive in return. And THAT’s a C3 teaching. Our tithes and offerings should be freely given, in my view, with NEVER a thought. or dare I say, even a hope, that we might be going to receive a blessing in return! (I’m sure someone will corrrect me if they think I am wrong in this.) You appear to be teetering dangerously close, in my humble opinion, Chris to the brink of “superstition”. All this focus on signs, wonders, prophecies (albeit fortune-telling in most cases) miracle healings etc………. we are getting so far away from the message Jesus delivered ……that we are all just terrible sinners saved by Grace. That’s it!!! Isn’t it? I am trying to remember when I ever heard such a message preached in my C3 church! Week after week, it was just how much we would be “blessed” if we put our faith in God…… and gave our money!
just because of what dirt you can dig up about individuals in c3 doesn’t disqualify the teachings of God in Jesus Christ through the scripture look at paul he was not perfect by any means yet he is revered as one of the greatest authors in the New Testament and to those of you who look at the gender thing do you not realize that the only cities that were told to not give power to the women in ministry worst cities that already worshiped women God knew this which is why he told the other cities that it was fine and the people were equal so say in the scripture here is a message for those people and if you choose to not listen to it then you’re a scared only of hearing the truth which may sell offending Lee be different than what you believe the Bible doesn’t lie and you must understand the whole thing to grasp what it is saying “This Is Who We Are” http://subspla.sh/1GgnmZC
I attended C-3 church with my sister in law was really taken back with the over powering loud music strobe lights in my eyes accepting debtt cards for the offering all around me people speaking in tongs falling on the ground etc has anyone out there experienced this same experience at C3 ? Something not right at this church
Sounds like your typical C3 Church. Sadly churches like this are becoming the rule rather than the exception…
Just reading Paul in 2 Corinthians today and after I came upon this. How does all this help non-believers become followers of Jesus. Paul said to the church at Corinth…those who criticise are looking at the surface only…and forgetting that we are all followers of Christ first and foremost. Surely we should all be able to state the facts and encourage and build each other, and bring correction or a more unified view of our faith. I don’t agree with everything taught at C3 and Hillsong, but I attend there because the Holy Spirit and the gifts are believed in at these churches. Anyone who really reads the Bible can see that historically there has been many ideas about what Jesus taught but many don’t hold up under scrutiny of the scripture. Always limited by Man’s interpretation of life and God’s love. If we followed all the scriptures to the tee as per these watchers’ version of scripture we would all end up very legalistic. Isn’t that what Jesus was correcting. Go back and read what Jesus did. Stop judging. Maybe you could ask for an audience with Brian Houston and Phil Pringle and look at the scripture with love point out and reason with them. Pray together and learn from each other. Both these men I believe you will find are truley believers. Love one another, love your neighbour as yourself. We are not perfect…..well I am not for sure. Maybe the hosts of this website think they are perfect. I cannot even find their names so I can research them. Lets dialogue together….there is much to dialogue about.
“I attend there because the Holy Spirit and the gifts are believed in at these churches”
Show me a spirit-filled believer in C3 or Hillsong and we’ll show you someone who will either leave because they have the Spirit of Truth in them or will stay because they don’t have a moral compass.
Stop judging!!!! Esther, with respect you need to familiarise yourself with the FACTS as to the way Brian Houston treated me and my family when I asked for his assistance in a very serious matter. The details are on the website if you care to REALLY think about who you should be instructing to “stop judging”! Brian Houston thinks nothing of judging people when he is asked to explain himself. Further, I have been requesting that either or both of these two men meet with me face-to-face for a “discussion” for YEARS after the rape of my child was covered up by church pastors and neither has even acknowledged my request let alone agreed to meet with me. Both these men are “true believers”, Esther? Just what is it that they “believe”. The Scriptures? Surely not…… otherwise why are they not obedient to them? Matthew 5:23-24??? Still waiting for them to come and see me, Esther! I don’t know how you have come to the conclusion that the hosts of this website are perfect but this is a standard retort from Hillsong and C3 believers whenever their “idols” are put under scrutiny! If you are so intent on quoting “love one another” then perhaps you should be quoting this to Houston and Pringle and reminding them of Tanya Levin, myself or the myriad of other people who have been damaged and abused by their churches and still trying to recover. Trying to convince yourself that there is not a problem with these churches and with their leaders will not make it so. And I can’t speak for the moderators of this site, but if you can arrange that “audience” (interesting choice of words by the way, Esther) with Houston or Pringle for me I would be VERY grateful. I would be REALLY interested to hear from them face-to-face why they refused to assist a child who had been raped! Of course, no doubt your “idols” could put a spin on things that might satisfy you but meet with ALL of us and you might get the truth!
Jon Bear said:
Great blog! There are millions of people being manipulated by this corrupt organization. Churches like this is one of the biggest reasons atheism is on the rise.
I am old school and love church in all simplicity and truth.Hope city and C3 church are connected but there 5 great factors I have found.
God the Father God the son and God the Holyspirit
That one can be real with themselves and with God
Family thru connect groups and fellowship
What true service is
In other words I realised that I didn’t go to church to be an observer of who was saying what but I went to partake from the Lord and listen to what God was saying.
I love church now more than I have ever loved church before.
I love the affection the British and I am always amazed at how courteous they can say thank you darling and no one ever valued me like my church family in Hope city and that takes me to church always. I serve in many teams because I love to serve and to connect with those in my teams. I love my pastors and Hope City as a family and I couldn’t choose anywhere else.
Read the book of Acts and in those days what one owned belonged to everybody so giving was accredited as unto God. “Give and it will come back to you good measure shaken together running over” no man spoke those words- it is the word of God.
Thanks for commenting Carolkim.
In the near future we hope to provide some biblically-based sermon reviews from Hope City, and Dave & Jenny Gilpin.
Cheers, Team Churchwatch.
I currently attend a C3 church and am trying to pull myself and my family out of there. Following is a list of things that have happened over a period of three years:
1. Constant pressure to give more money, at least ten minutes at every service dedicated to “encouraging” financial giving. There is heavy use of misquoted scriptures. Malachi 3:10 and 3rd John verse 2 particularly. During an “offering message”, the pastors daughter actually said that she is not a gambler, but giving money to the church was a sure bet, because you are guaranteed to see a return on your “investment”.
2. The children’s ministry just started using Dave Ramsey’s “Financial Peace JR” workbook in children’s church, now I am not opposed to teaching children about fiscal responsibility, but that is my job, not my church’s. Furthermore, the children’s pastor made an offhand comment to me when promoting the decision, “We’re going to make your kids millionaires by the time they are 18!”. My question to him was, why would you wish something like that on my kids? I’m going to give you a bible verse, that really doesn’t require a whole lot of interpretation. Matthew 19:24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.
3. The pastor frequently exhibits that he is extremely insecure in his own preaching ability. He scolded the associate pastor for preaching a really powerful sermon, (which actually did present the true gospel with vivid imagery, talking about God saving us when we were completely dead in our sin, unable to do anything for ourselves), and he scolded him because he kept the material to himself and didn’t let the senior pastor take credit for it by presenting it as his own.
4. The senior pastor frequently “senses” that there is a Jezebel spirit among the leadership, and that it must be prayed against, (His interpretation of when leaders are withdrawing due to lack of transparency on his part).
5. Members of the worship team are not held to any kind of standard in regards to their own personal walk with Christ, due to the shortage of talented musicians. (Members are told that they must attend Thursday night practice if they want to play Sunday, but the rule doesn’t apply to the main vocal singer, a 20 something that was kicked out by her parents, left the church several times, doesn’t practice)
6. Loyalty to the 20/20 vision of Phil Pringle is of paramount importance, C3 church is repeatedly promoted as being superior to other churches / denominations.
I could go on, but these are the things that I can rattle off the top of my head.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts about your C3 experience here, Spence.
A question – are there any more doctrinally sound churches in your area? If we can be of any assistance helping you find one, or if you wish to share anything else more privately, please contact us at firstname.lastname@example.org or email@example.com
Cheers, Team ChurchWatch.
Actually, the first thing I did when I started to feel like something was wrong at C3 was speak with a trusted pastor who was actually the first person to turn me on to Systematic Theology in high school. So I do have a recommendation from him for a doctrinally sound church in the area. Part of the reason I’m having a hard time leaving is because my wife is good friends with a few of the women. Everything going on is becoming more and more obvious though, so I have no doubt we will be walking away sometime in the next 4 months.
Two more things that came to mind:
Even the fiscal responsibility part is just a front for funneling more money into Phil Pringles pockets. All year, “presence” conference is peddled year round, encouraging church members to get on payment plans, because you can’t miss hearing from visionary leaders, especially Phil.
My youngest son has some pretty serious health issues, he’s 5 years old and all together we’ve spent over 8 months off and on living in the pediatric ICU at our local children’s hospital. God has been really good to us, keeping my son safe, working through the doctors and nurses to give him really great care. Anyways, the head pastor thought he’d express how much his family cared about our son by telling me he had given an extra large offering at presence conference to get a “prayer cloth” something that guaranteed Phil Pringle would personally be praying for my son. It literally made me sick to my stomach. My wife and I have seen God’s providence in our family so much, and you think you can buy healing. My son is only alive because of God’s faithfulness, and you think that isn’t enough somehow.
There are a lot of true Christians that attend C3 that either don’t know better because they are young believers, haven’t been there long enough, or haven’t gotten deeply involved enough to see the inner workings. Please dig into God’s Word for yourself, see if what they are saying is true or false, don’t take it for granted. See if the way they run things lines up with the Word. Especially if you have a family, you are responsible for more than just yourself.
From Portland, Oregon. Just in case anyone might think I’m making any of this up.
“C3 church is repeatedly promoted as being superior to other churches / denominations.”
I’ll 2’nd that statement by saying… A parishioner at CCCW (now Stairway Church Nunawading) said to me, “My daughter and her boyfriend attend the Crossway’s Church, but they wont find God until they start coming to CCCW.”
She was a nice lady, kind and considerate. However easily influenced and led. Brain washing, and zero accountability, is the nature of the ‘Beast’ at C3 Churches.
Many comment that we shouldn’t judge, we should leave that to God. Surely though God would want us to have discernment & that seems to be sorely lacking in the Church.
A friend of mine invited me to go to her church which happened to be 3C and ever since she first extended the invitation God put it in my heart to go. After a few weeks I finally went and I had nothing but a positive experience.
Could you please explain “a positive experience”, Gins. Do you mean they made you feel all warm and fuzzy at C3? Do you mean you heard how important YOU were? Did you hear about how you could decree and declare and make something happen? Did you hear how if you tithed you would get something back from God in return? Did you hear how God was going to heal that annoying sickness or illness you have? What EXACTLY was the positive message you heard? Because I GUARANTEE you did not hear that you are a rotten sinner like the rest of us saved by GRACE and that Jesus hung naked, bleeding and in agony on the Cross after being spat on and mocked because of OUR sin because he loved you so much that he took the punishment for YOUR sin …. now THAT would have been a positive message but I GUARANTEE you didn’t hear that at C3!
Please define “positive experience” , Gins. I, for one, would be interested.
No. I never heard that I was a sinner and needed to change the evil ways that the devil drags us into, such as: greediness and selfishness, arrogance and pride, lies and dishonesty.
All I heard for more than 20 years was that “God wants me to be wealthy, successful and healthy in this world”, and of course, in order to get these things, and above anything else I must tithe, and contribute with “raise and building offerings, miracle offerings, special offerings, love offerings, and some other offerings.
Where all these moneys went or keep going to, well, no body within the general congregation really knows.