C3 Tirade Brigade

C3 members continually tell those outside the C3 movement to “judge not lest ye be judged”. This scripture is taught to them out of context by C3 leadership.

However, the teaching and behaviour of C3 leadership is much worse. C3 leadership continually criticize, demonise, damn, condemn and slander those that disagree with their doctrines and practices. This page is dedicated to their two-way tongues.

PHIL PRINGLE

“When I meet some believers…I can’t believe …their brain is this big (holds up thumb and forefinger together). They can see through a keyhole with both eyes…they’re so narrow-minded.” – Phil Pringle, http://203.89.236.8/ramgen/ccc/11060610am.rm, Sunday Morning Service, C3 Church Oxford Falls, 11/06/2006.

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“Don’t you dare be thinking I can’t grow a church! This is how you grow a church! One person touching another! Connecting! Getting on the same page!” – Phil Pringle, Presence Conference 2012, Open Night.

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“But I don’t find that all the time. I find some believers who are still very small minded. Very miserable. Very upset. Very offended. very tight about all sorts of things. And often times- this is the tragedy of that, they’re only like twenty five years old!

I’m going, “You’re too young to be this screwed up! You’re too young to be this hard-headed about doctrine- and about- and to get all angry and bitter and tough about- PLEASE! What are you doing?!? Don’t talk about the stuff. BE the stuff. Don’t fight about words like grace. BE GRACIOUS! Amen!” – Phil Pringle, Phil Pringle ‘Grand Designs | Spare Not’, http://www2.myc3church.net/videos/phil-pringle-grand-designs-spare-not-0, C3 Church Oxford Falls, 09/06/2013. (Accessed 11/06/2013.)

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“And listen to me! When you’re thinking about and talking about this church, you speak it up amen! Build the church! Don’t tear the thing down! That place is changing peoples lives! They are changing this community! They are touching people all around the world for goodness sake! Today it might be easy but there’s – I can guarantee you something’s going to happen in the next twelve months that will make you think ‘uuh-ahhh, I’m not buying this, uuh-ahhh’.

Resolve on the inside. You’re gonna be a builder with your mouth and not a destroyer. On the side of the throne of God is Jesus the Intercessor, praying for you and me. On the other side is the Accuser of the Brethren. Day and night. We choose which side we’re gonna be on. Every day of our life. I’m speaking up the people of God or I’m on the other side with the other guy, pulling them down.

So if you’re into the Facebook thing and you’re online right now and you’re sort of [mocks]  ’un-yunylunylun’ – amen! I’m talking to you! Thank you Jesus! Amen?” – Ps Phil Pringle: Fresh Start – Beginnings AM, http://www2.myc3church.net/videos/ps-phil-pringle-fresh-start-beginnings-am, C3 Church Oxford Falls, 05/02/2012. (Read and listen here at C3C3: According To Pringle, C3 Church Watch Is Satanic.)

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“I found this: that every time a parent or a family start to get critical about the church, one of the first things that happens is that the kids stop coming. And if you want to cut out your family and your legacy from the house of God, just get critical. Just start to defend your position and justify a resistance to what God is doing with some criticism – and you’ll find it actually severs the Spirit.”– Phil Pringle, http://www.ccc.org.au/podcasting/ppmow.xml, Uploaded 21/07/2009, (19/07/2009). (Read and listen here at C3CW: Criticise Elisha Or C3 Church & You’ll Sever The Spirit Of God Over Your Family.)

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“Mr Flannery says, “Guys. The governments paying me a hundred and eighty thousand a year to let you know what’s gonna happen in the future. It’s never ever gonna be full again. So we need to build a one billion dollar desalination plant (which they did build and now is in moth balls), and we need to tax everybody an extra hundred bucks to actually build the thing in Sydney.”

People should come to church. [Applause] People should come to church.

We got greenhouse people predicting all kinds of stuff today. But we need some prophets who are carrying a presence on them that can see into the future. People who can work miracles and break a drought. Who can speak to seas and storms and tsunamis and say “Stop!” Men and women of enormous power.” – Phil Pringle, Presence Conference 2012, Day 4, Day Sermon, Friday, 13/04/2012. [READ CONTEXT HERE]

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“DON’T you DARE criticize and pull down your pastor or anybody else around here! If you want to do that, just go now! We’re having too much fun to have the critics and the miserable people around! Just leave now! If you want to be a builder then stick around. Most fools criticize and- you know, that’s the fact of the matter. Any fool can criticize and most fools do. The deal is, Jesus called us to build the church and we build it with words. We prophesied off the negative circumstance of the valley.

We don’t go, “Aw! Oh look at these dry old bones! Golly! Their hopeless, those people! You know, my God! Dod you see her this week? She had the same dress as me, on. You know, I don’t know. Look at her hair! My God!” We get caught up with silly little things. Especially if you get offended… There’s stuff that’s gonna happen in church! And you might have your little pot plant commitment going on. You know, you’re a pot plant church! [inaudible] I met them! I mean church member.

Where people have kind a got their little pot plant going on here and they been at a couple of churches. They’re looking around, going like, “Aww, I don’t know. You know, I’ve been hurt before in church life. You know, and something’s gonna happen. Something bad’s gonna happen – OH THERE IT IS! Alright I’m off!” Pick up your pot and off you go! And sit down at another church. That’s not unity. Break the pot. Let your roots go down in the congregation. Build something that lasts. You will flourish in the courts of God because you are PLANTED in the house of God! You’ll flourish once you’re planted.” – Phil Pringle, “God Creates With Words” // Dr. Phil Pringle // 02.12.12, Vimeo, http://vimeo.com/37288145, Uploaded by C3 Church San Diego, 22/02/2012.

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“If you get offended, get it right real quick. If you’re critical of a place, just leave! Go! You know- I honestly- you just don’t want to stick around and go, “Ahlahlah!” like this! We’re having too much fun! Amen! Get on the same page and walk to the beat of the same drum and say, “You know what? We’re gonna be a one mind and speak the same thing in Jesus mighty name. We’re gonna stand up, being an army that marches together into the future.” So when the building fund comes around say, “I’m in. Even if I can only give five bucks, I’m in! If I can give five hundred, even better. I’m in! If I can give five thousand, I’m in! Five hundred thousand, I’m in! Whatever! I’m in! It’s all of us just being involved with what God is trying to do. If I’m going to be in a connect group, I’m either going to be a leader or part of one. I’m gonna be there on Sunday pastor. You can trust me.” – Phil Pringle, February 12 – Dr. Phil Pringle: – “Keep Moving In The Valley”, 35:04-36:18, http://media.cccsandiego.com/Media/02%2012%2012%20PM.mp3, C3 San Diego, Night Service, 12/02/2012.

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“Get a hold of it! Be apart of it! Say, “I’m a Vision Builder.” Say, “I’m a Vision Builder!” [Audience: “I’m a Vision Builder.”] Yeah! Get rid of Saul’s thing of putting the church down. If you’re a critic- awwwe! Get over it! Get beyond that! Stop reading those blogs! Move on! Amen! … That’s Lot’s stuff. Lot wants to read that stuff.” – Phil Pringle, Ps Phil Pringle – AS FAR AS YOU CAN SEE, 89:00, http://www2.myc3church.net/videos/ps-phil-pringle-far-you-can-see, C3 Oxford Falls, 03/07/2012.

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“I find that if people are very honest with themselves, if they use theology to try and counter-act tithing or giving it’s generally because they don’t want to give. If they’re real honest. I’d rather they say that, “I don’t want to give.” Don’t try to twist scripture! You’ll do that with other scriptures when they’re inconvenient… And you start to twist scripture and you’re in a dangerous position. It’s called deception. So I’d rather you get honest and say, “Oh! I don’t want to do this.” And then you can deal with the real issue.

But finding scriptures that will suit what I want and convenient. Or theology or bloggers or somebody else is going to back me up – it’s like the people you council and they don’t listen to your councilling that they go to the one that  eventually find who agrees with them. And that’s not what you want! You don’t want that life because that will never change you! You want the stuff that challenges you!” – Phil Pringle, Ps Phil Pringle: Financial Excellence Part 2, http://www2.myc3church.net/videos/ps-phil-pringle-financial-excellence-part-2, Sermon (PM), 22/05/2011.

MARK KELSEY

“If you haven’t started tithing, start tithing. Ignore the soothsayers. Ignore the bloggers. Ignore all that rubbish. It’s rubbish! Everybody say rubbish [Audience: Rubbish!]. It’s a bunch of rubbish! They don’t know what they’re talking about! We need to be convinced what the Word of God says and be generous, praying, praise-filled people. Amen? I reckon we’ve got the greatest and strongest church in the world and that we’re moving together as a great army of God. Amen?” – Mark Kelsey, Justin Richards, 37:50-38:19, http://www2.myc3church.net/videos/justin-richards, Night Service, 20/05/2012. (Accessed 11/06/2012.)

40 thoughts on “C3 Tirade Brigade”

  1. Sue Jull said:

    This C3 sounds a lot like the Sovereign Grace Ministries in Maryland, USA. Planting church movement. Coming out of the Catholic Charismatic movement in the 70’s, these guys wanted to have their own ‘ministry’. Knowing just a little more than the dry mainline churches, were able to attract a following. Many people have been injured over the years, now have a website, “Sovereign Grace Survivors.”.

    Apparently, C3 is just one of these ‘wolves in sheep clothing’ who have sprung up around the world. Things have never been ‘right’ in the ‘church’ since it was first established by Constantine–because Papal ‘authority’ was and that cornerstone of the Church!—-NOT CHRIST– men declare themselves Vicars–the Head of the people! When Christianity became ‘churched’–it never produced ‘the peaceful fruits of righteousness’. Read the history books. Once ‘freed’ from the law, born-again believers are immediately told to take another VOW, “Church Membership” (circumcision) — dividing their hearts’ affections, become Lukewarm. They are lead to be gathering together to ‘build a church building’ (golden calf) to worship God as being their ‘sacred duty’. Naive children who are serving the ‘church’–believing they are doing service to God! Became ‘nameless, faceless’ sheep–subjects of abuse. These wicked Shepperds have beaten and robed the sheep–thinking the Master is a long time coming back!

    But who can bare the Truth–read your history books! The churches have always been full with myths and fables–murder and greed!–Christianity since Constantine has not been based on ‘absolute Bible truth’…not joined together with the God of Love and Forgiveness!–but this Church God exalted by the Vicars–leads men by the Spirit of IDOLATRY to exercise deceit and succor hypocrisy. And in our day, these deceivers have gone from bad to worse! — a startling fact. COME, LORD JESUS.

  2. Gary macDougall said:

    Sue, you have made a good point. All of us would do well if we went back in history and looked at all the pagan customs freely celebrated in todays Christianity. This sheds light on the deceptions of wolves like Pringle. eg His Easter egg drop over Sydney is just part of pagan customs from back in Constantine’s day.
    Pringle’s current deception can be understood from Isaiah 49:2 “…He has hidden me And made me into a polished shaft, in his quiver he has hidden me”.
    We are like arrows in God’s quiver. However if an arrow has lumps and bumps on it , when it leaves the bow air currents working on the lumps and bumps will cause the arrow to fly off direction.Before a christian goes into ministry God works in their lives over many years to polish the shaft of the arrow and smooth out the lumps and bumps. That is why in Hudson Taylor’s case you have two very thick books 1. “Growth of A Soul” and 2. “Growth of A Work.”
    Back in NZ when Pringle was first saved he was shoved into ministry by the Bartons without being “polished” by God. Now he is like an arrow flying at a great speed but in the wrong direction. He is not on the target. He has missed the mark.

    • The legacy of the Bartons and Company tenure at Sydebnham AOG is a fascinating but horrible story about the ultimate train wreck.

      Came a time, came a man, Marcus Arden was his name, He set up Hippie love shops all around NZ giving away things for love, but then he had his epiphany and started what was to become The Jesus movement in the early seventies.

      The movement soread like wildfire as young folk clamoured to get aboard spritual things for Comet Kahoutek, Children of God through to the Cooper Sect from Rangiora,

      Then in the middle came the likes of Peter Morrow and in our story Dennis and Babara Barton who led the band at Sydenham AOG which up until then was a fairly conservative church, you know ladies wear hats and men were clean shaven and wore suits and into their midsts came the great “unwashed” with tie dyed shirts, faded jeans, sport shoes, mandatory tote bag and long hair and beards.

      At first the church could not take it but Bartons persisted and the church was filled wit young folf from all over the world literally.

      Along came a couple of art students Pringle and Wayne Tindall who were then “annointed” to ttake over the young people,

      Meetings every night but at that stage the prosperity thing had not kicked in.

      At the time of the Jesus marches in NZ Pringle and wife had been appointed house parents to a complex bought with church funds called Hebron House where about 20 young folk lived communilly which was his reward when his over grown community based in Oxford terrace had outgrown itsellf… the Lord ( Barton provided)
      These young folk became the eletist clique and while other communities were established like Trent Street, they refused to come under the control of Bartons, Pringle and co rather choosing to ties the wagons to the established eldership of the church ala Earl Mead, Brother Wade etc.

      In the mean time Pringle took over the organising and then hijacked the running of the big Jesus weekend in Christchurch which instead of being focussed on Jesus became focussed on the Pentecostal churches.

      Many folk at AOG Sydenham became dismayed at the direction that the young folk were going and on the emphasis on young folk and many who had been in the church for years felt hey were being shut out and that old teachings and the learning to walk in the spirit before expounding doctrine was being ignored which led to the infamous church meeting where a call for renewing the Pastors tenure was soundly rejected and Bartons were dumped

      Pringle and Tindall realising their control was going to slip through their fingers jumped ship, followed the Bartons until he decided to pitch his tent in Lyttleton, a port twn serving Canterbury.

      His place was taken by another converted Hippy Alan Boddy who was groomed and appointed by the paedophile head of AOG NZ and ipso facto head of Christian Life Bible college Lower Hutt where Boddy was head student, it was all mapped out for him.

      Boddy then surrounded himself with loyal supporters like Reeves and company and proceede to wax lyrical about relationships which led to a crazy time of young people going down the aisle.

      Sadly, a lot of those marriages failed through infidelity, coming out and repressed problems and many jumped the ditch to Australia where they started churches until their hands on ministry to other peoples wives became a problem.

      Bad teaching and trusting spiritual babies to minister and control spiritual babies led to this debacle and ultimately the destruction of the Sydenham AOG.

  3. Ignore the bloggers. Ignore all that rubbish. It’s rubbish!

    I used to think Kelsey was an OK guy but one realises, with hindsight and a level of objectivity that in the video you linked to, he’s just parroting the “party line” and I shake my head at his rhetoric. He offers no intellectual insights into why it’s “rubbish,” apparently, it’s rubbish on his say-so alone. It’s so shallow and juvenile.

    The problem with most of these 50+ pastors is that this is all they’ve ever done (fleecing the sheeple) and they’d never get a job in the corporate world so in a way, they are trapped and have to keep punching the clock.

  4. Gary macDougall said:

    Bill , you have touched on a very relevant truth that is related to my post above about arrows that aren’t polished and are msiing the mark.Pringle was sent flying as an arrow that was always going to go off course. At the beginning he was a miniscule degree off the target line but as time projects outhe has become further off course.

  5. “DON’T you DARE criticize and pull down your pastor or anybody else around here!”

    It’s bad news for you, Phil: a lot of people at your “church” are awake up to you. Some are leaving and some are staying, but they’re *all* talking – and they’re saying that things are not as they should be. They’re saying that there is no presence of the Holy Spirit any more, and that the “church” is interested only in money, and is becoming increasingly strident and dictatorial in it’s attempts to control and manipulate people.

    And they are right.

    So those who are being criticised are receiving exactly what they deserve, and there’s no way that you can stop it – in fact, the more you try to stop it, the worse it will become. In particular, there is no way that you can quash the dissent that is being expressed on the Internet; this is your biggest problem, and it’s one that simply isn’t going to go away.

    • I wonder if that is true even as it seems so clear .

    • We could check with Kong Hee – I think he knows a little bit about this subject…

    • kreewater said:

      Can anyone please explain to me why the individuals who lead up these “mega churches” all have American accents? (And poor ones at that!) It is SO irritating!!!

      Mr. Pringle, the word is “doing” not “doin'” and the fake rolling of the “r’s” is just ridiculous.

      They all do it!!!! I am not being unduly critical, I am just curious. Most of these fellows come from New Zealand – perhaps someone could also explain to me why so many come from that tiny country. Is there no work to be done in NZ – no people to be saved?

      Fake American accents and New Zealand birth certificates? What is the explanation for these common factors in so many of them? I am really interested if anyone has an explanation.

  6. ‘I used to think Kelsey was an OK guy but one realises, with hindsight and a level of objectivity that in the video you linked to, he’s just parroting the “party line” and I shake my head at his rhetoric.’

    It’s true; Mark Kelsey is a huge disappointment: he could have been someone in God, but he threw in his lot with Phil instead.

    “The problem with most of these 50+ pastors is that this is all they’ve ever done (fleecing the sheeple) and they’d never get a job in the corporate world so in a way, they are trapped and have to keep punching the clock.”

    Has anyone else noticed that some of the pastors appear a little haggard, like they’ve worn themselves out striving in the flesh? Or maybe they’ve realised that Phil has been conning them all along – can you imagine what it must feel like to hit late middle age and belatedly discover that you’ve spent your entire working life chasing a mirage, and, worse than that, that you’ve encouraged others to chase it as well? Can you imagine the sleepless nights of those who realise that they serve a peddlar of lies, and that they have been diligently peddling lies on his behalf?

  7. Gary macDougall said:

    “Can you imagine the sleepless nights of those who realise that they serve a peddlar of lies, and that they have been diligently peddling lies on his behalf?”
    Zorro sad but true.
    You are right they have been “chasing a mirage”. The saddest part is that the flocks have been caught up in the deception.
    Essentially, way back at the beginning when Pringle & the Bartons split AOG , Sydneham they had the attitude of “getting back at the AOG and competing with another church”.Their bitterness and arrogance started as a seed back then and now it has grown into the C3 tree with its deceptive and bitter fruits.
    I don’t think Pastor Barton humbly accepted the fact that he was voted out. (It was very democratic and fair anyway).He imparted the bitternesss and rebellion into Pringle and they stole over half the sheep and the seeds of C3 deception started growing. This is not an overnight thing but goes right back to its roots.The problem is very deep in Pringle’s rebellious attitude and ego.
    I may be wrong but I think Brian Houston may have a bit of this as well, and Pringle and Houston are friends…partners in crime!

    • “Their bitterness and arrogance started as a seed back then and now it has grown into the C3 tree with its deceptive and bitter fruits.”

      As it is written in Hebrews “See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.”

      It is abundantly clear that Phil has missed the grace of God – he’s all about works and law. It’s interesting to see that scripture links that with a bitter root, and that the end result of such things is that many people are defiled. It all sounds exactly like C3.

  8. ‘ he’s all about works and law’

    Hebrews 11:6

    New International Version (NIV)

    6 And without faith it is impossible to please God, because anyone who comes to him must believe that he exists and that he rewards those who earnestly seek him.

    Yet Pringle claims,

    ‘ Where people have kind a got their little pot plant going on here and they been at a couple of churches. They’re looking around, going like, “Aww, I don’t know. You know, I’ve been hurt before in church life. You know, and something’s gonna happen. Something bad’s gonna happen – OH THERE IT IS! Alright I’m off!” Pick up your pot and off you go! And sit down at another church. That’s not unity. Break the pot. Let your roots go down in the congregation. Build something that lasts. You will flourish in the courts of God because you are PLANTED in the house of God!’

    Pringle says,

    OH THERE IT IS! Alright I’m off!” Pick up your pot and off you go! And sit down at another church. That’s not unity.
    ( Pringle suggests that other churches are more useless than his church )

    And then he suggests that you will FLOURISH IN GOD if you turn up at his church—– by saying,

    Break the pot. Let your roots go down in the congregation. Build something that lasts. You will flourish in the courts of God because you are PLANTED in the house of God!

    IS C3 THE ONE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????/

  9. Gary MacDougall said:

    Eyes, Pringle suggests bringing you pot plant with you.Yes! it seems he wants every one to go his joint!
    Zorro’s scripture from Hebrews is enlightening:-
    “As it is written in Hebrews “See to it that no one misses the grace of God and that no bitter root grows up to cause trouble and defile many.”
    What we see now is a result of the bitter root of the AOG, Sydneham split era.

    • Really? Because Phil Pringle hasn’t set up a website to complain about it or anyone involved so I don’t think he is the one holding onto bitterness from whatever that situation was. Whoever hates his brother ……you know how it ends. A whole website dedicated to hating one minister and movement?? How does this bring glory to God?For your own sake you need to let go of the bitterness and resentment that seems to be driving this website and start something that will have eternal significance. It is never too late to let go of hate and learn to love…or even forgive.

    • kreewater said:

      Bella, Pringle uses his “stooges” to speak for him on this site, as he is too cowardly to speak for himself……. unless it is to preach to the converted in his own Church. This site is not, as I understand it, dedicated to “hating” anyone! If people had been less tolerant of cult leaders in the past, so much heartache and even lives, might have been saved.
      May I respectfully suggest you go back and read ALL the comments on this site and the storiesof some of the people who have been hurt by Pringle and C3. Then please go to Pringle (as the Bible instructs) and suggest that he get in line with Bible instructions and go and apologise to some of these folk! That’s not the instruction of those who run this site but of the One who gave us the Bible!

  10. “A whole website dedicated to hating one minister and movement??”

    Not at all, Bella.

    Phil is not a minister, he is a fraud – as is his “movement”.

    It is entirely Scriptural that wolves should be corrected, and, if necessary, rebuked. (Of course if you had read your Bible, you would know that).

  11. It seems strange that the rot seems to have emminated from the lack of good teaching at Sydenham AOG following the Read. Mulveigh and Averills who were teachers to be replaced by evangelists ala Bartons who could not ever be called a scholar.

    Travelling snake oil preachers like the unfaitful Clark Taylor came and pushed people down on their backs and kicked out the demons with much noise and shouting……yeah miracles were happening in Christchurch……

    Then across town was the Morrow mob led by yet another Australian peddler who rose to be the anointed apostle (someone say for Petes sake) andrsonality the cults of peronality began.

    It is intersting to tie the current leaders or financil controllers as I call them with the Associted Pentecostal Churchs of Christchuch and their migration across the ditch.

    I have spent many years getting over the false teachings and ministry at AOG and whilat Pringle followed by Boddy ran riot with the young people and I have to wonder at passing through Christchurch and seeing that the old church sites now Spotlight craft shop and the Oden theatre gone pre the quake.
    How many young peoples lives wwre ruined by Pringle and Barton plus Boddy and Reeves and their inept teachings it makes me angered at the duplicity of it all as if you questioned the teaching you were i need of deliverance.

    People dont need miracles they have that in their salvation the just need good sound doctrine taught by those who have studied and have learned to actually walk instead of driving chariots.

  12. It seems that C3 pastors (and others) have adopted Lenin’s famous maxim “the heart on fire and the brain on ice”. But that was never God’s will “Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.” (Matthew 22:37). Let the thaw begin!!

    C3 pastors tell us firmly and repeatedly, that they should remain un-challenged. Whatever happened to God’s Word where we are instructed to test ALL things? The brain-washing I suffered is now over and I’m now able to think and behave the way God has instructed. I was once in a 3C church where it was taught that we must not question or challenge the pastor. He was God’s “anointed”. We must obey, regardless! To have a weekend away with family was even a “no no” as we were expected to be in attendance, every Sunday. What was happening was I was drowning in a sea of a set of new Laws. Once under Law now under God’s Grace, was not to be in the scheme of the pastor. We were given a new set of Laws, the pastor’s Laws, which had to be obeyed.

    I fully support free will New Testament Giving. Let me make that clear. Christians who honor God’s Word will soon discover that “Christian Tithing” or the “principle of tithing” is not taught in the New Testament. The proponents of Christian Tithing know the Bible is not on their side and so have turned to baseless arguments, guilt inducing sermons, threats, character assassination, emotional appeals, and scripture twisting to force this invented tithing principle into the minds of Christians. But these methods are the same techniques used by the cults to manipulate and extract money from their members. By exposing this false doctrine we are preventing the encroachment of cultic techniques into the Body of Christ –Be aware: tithing is just one weapon in the current cultic move pushing into the Christian Church.
    Take Paul de Jong. pastor of “Life Church” in Auckland, New Zealand and a board member of Riverview Church in Perth, Australia. Dr. Russell Kelly is a USA based theologian who earned his doctorate with a thesis on tithing, and is author of the book “Should The Church Teach Tithing?” Paul de Jong is held up as a defender of Christian Tithing doctrine in Australia and New Zealand. But when his confident assertions on the subject were examined by tithing expert Dr. Russell Kelly they failed to stand up Biblically. Confronted with this in-depth review of his teaching Paul de Jong has, so far, not provided a rebuff to any of Dr. Kelly’s points. Found on the website of Life Church Parramatta (an ex-3C pastor, whose credentials were revoked when he headed a 3C church in Girraween NSW) states: “The responsible giving of tithes and offerings: as taught in the scriptures, as part of our worship to God. (Gen 14:20; Mal 3:8-10; 1Cor 16:2; 2Cor 9:6-7; Heb 7:4-6)”. Nothing changes it would appear. That is found under the heading: Who are we? And then under Theology, on the Website.

    Do any of these pastors have a Doctorate? My experience, and it’s comprehensive, showed me that if you can demonstrate a perchant for the dramatics, dance around, shout loudly and maybe have a wife who can sing or play an instrument, you are in line to become a pastor in a 3C church. Then, you teach and preach the 3C Doctrine! You are given charge and instructions to build a new church. Bring in the hoards of unsuspecting folk. Take their money. Engage in “deliverance” escapdes and shock them with YOUR power. It’s all a “stage show” contrived and rehearsed.

    Suffice to say, put away your credit cards and your cash and forget tithing 10 percent. Forget the Law these pastors place upon you as yoke that is so often too difficult to bear. Give, but give freely and ask GOD to direct your giving. It may not be where you think! Take care out there everyone. TEST ALL THINGS.

    • Great comment there; totally agree that you can now think and behave the way God wants you to. I am still unlearning stuff from years ago.

      I also agree with your qualifications to be a C3 pastor. Yes I know a few genuinely good ones, but a lot of the time – if you’ve got charisma and/or are committed, you inherit the (often erroneous) title of Pastor. And where is the biblical training? Understanding of the Word?

      I find it interesting the sudden attack on blogs etc was mid 2012 – correct me if I’m wrong but it was last year that PlebChristian was doing his (very good) sermon reviews. Maybe c3 felt threatened…

  13. The critics here have a man of god syndrome. You are expecting Phil Pringle, Kong Hee and probably every other pastoral leader in the world to be God and they are just as flawed as we are. The only difference is that at least they are actually trying to build up people’s relationships with God and to win them over before it’s too late. The enemy clearly has you in his grasp and your tongue speaks it.

    To me, it sounds like you are a Christian, but critical of the C3 doctrine. I can tell you, your time is probably better spent criticizing the cults first. But, I don’t know how your criticisms will encourage one to make a change from one doctrine to another by attacking them. The position and criticisms you make haven’t changed my agreement with C3 and because I know the enemy seeks to steal, kill and destroy and that includes churches.

    Instead of this criticism, you should go into a quiet room, and start seeking the Holy Spirit. Seek peace instead of being consumed with the spirit of the enemy.

    • kreewater said:

      No Joe, not “to be God” but rather to “behave like Christ”…………. to practise Christianity as our dear Lord taught it. The instructions in the Bible are clear – a blueprint by which we are supposed to live. Pastors and leaders will be held to a HIGHER account – at least that’s what the Bible tells us.

      Your comment that “you sound like you are a Christian, but critical of the C3 doctine” is astounding. Are you saying that there IS such a thing as “C3 doctrine”? Shame on you Joe! Chrstianity is the ONLY doctrine to which we should all be adhering. You have now stated what most of us have known for a long time and what this web site is trying to expose…………….. that there is indeed a “C3 doctrine”.

      May I repectfully suggest that YOU go to a quiet room and start seeking the Holy Spirit. Any “C3 doctrine’ is a false doctrine as there is only one doctine and that is the one Christ preached!

    • “You are expecting Phil Pringle, Kong Hee and probably every other pastoral leader […]”

      Phil Pringle, Kong Hee, et al are neither pastors nor leaders; they are lying wolves.

      “The only difference is that at least they are actually trying to build up people’s relationships with God […]”

      What a load of absolute tripe. They are grandstanding buffoons who are intent only on making a name for themselves and lining their own pockets.

      “The enemy clearly has you in his grasp […]”

      How ironic it is that you should say that.

      “[…] it sounds like you are a Christian, but critical of the C3 doctrine. […]”

      C3 doesn’t have “doctrine”, they peddle lies and heresy.

      “I can tell you, your time is probably better spent criticizing the cults first.”

      C3 *is* a cult, genius.

      “The position and criticisms you make haven’t changed my agreement with C3 […]”.

      Good on you. Keep giving C3 your money; I’m sure that your 100-fold increase is just around the corner. Jesus often mentioned the principle of buying blessings, didn’t he?

      “Instead of this criticism, you should go into a quiet room, and start seeking the Holy Spirit.”

      LOL. Instead of *your* criticism, *you* should start reading the Bible for yourself, and measuring against it the unadulterated nonsense that Phil spouts. (While you’re at it, why don’t you try asking Phil to his face where he got his “doctorate”, and see what sort of response you get).

    • “[…] Kong Hee […] [is] just as flawed as we are.”

      Really?

      So if Kong Hee is just as flawed as you, are we to understand that you have your own “church” from which you have stolen the equivalent of S$23,000,000?

    • Most of these self proclaimed leaders suffer from “Grandiose Narcissism”! Recently a friend who has also been a “victim” of these C3 miscreants, wrote this to me and I thought it worth posting some of what she said…….

      “Most of the Pastors (not all) are on a good wicket.

      Whoever tells them they are in need of deliverance and prayer because of their behaviour??
      Who would ever dare to tell them to have a hair-cut and straighten up??
      Who would dare tell them that their Sermon was so far away from God’s Word, they frighten God-fearing men and women??
      Who would dare to tell them to get a job in the real world and see how ordinary people are suffering??
      Who would dare to tell them that their advice and UNTRAINED counselling would be dismissed as nonsensical or totally inaccurate??
      Who would dare to tell them to pray and fast because they were straying??
      Who would dare to tell them that they are a con-man?? (or woman).
      Who decided to make their wives pastors as well? What are her credentials?? NONE!!
      Who would ask to see the Credentials of these Pastors?? They are self-perceived and then self-professed and self-credentialed Pastors. We are supposed to believe them!! ”

      It set me to thinking. We would never dare go to a doctor for attention to our physical needs without being assured that he/she was well-trained and credentialed YET we willingly put our spiritual well-being (arguably more important) into the hands of these charlatans and frauds and never question their credentials or run a fairly simple” back-ground” check. I have a family member who runs her own high profile ministry and makes the most outrageous claims about her past and qualifications. Gaining her ‘credentials’ by correspondence from a “Bible school”, she is now referred to as “Reverend”. Good grief! The most simple check done by even an untrained person at no financial cost would show her up to be the fraud she is – raking in the dollars and fortune-telling (she calls it having the gift of prophecy!) over any poor dill who will stand still long enough to listen. it is disgusting and shameful what these creeps do in the name of God but more disgusting if we do not check them out thoroughly before we place our spiritual growth in their hands. Just because they are gathering in the crowds doesn’t mean a thing – the Bible tells us to “test all things” not to “follow the crowd”! Some of the biggest frauds in history have drawn large crowds.

      Take the advice of my friend and hold your “Pastor” to account as my friend suggests (above)

  14. “…you know, and something’s gonna happen. Something bad’s gonna happen – OH THERE IT IS! Alright I’m off!” Pick up your pot and off you go! And sit down at another church. That’s not unity. Break the pot. Let your roots go down in the congregation. Build something that lasts. You will flourish in the courts of God because you are PLANTED in the house of God! You’ll flourish once you’re planted.”

    I was accused of this in a church back in 1992. I had got on really well with the pastor, his wife and many others, but surprisingly, this silly attack on me (without justification) came from the church secretary/receptionist.

    I had explained to the pastor as to my reasons for leaving (I had moved from one suburb to another) and he and the team there had accepted those reasons as being valid. I had healed from some previous abuse in a cultish commune, and it was time to move on with my life. New opportunities for work and fellowship awaited me on the coast, and I looked forward to it.

    So I went around one Sunday morning, cheerfully but a little sadly, saying my goodbyes to one and all, as they had been a very good church to me in the midst of my troubles, but when I got to ‘sister J’ she let fly with an almost verbatim remark.

    “Oh brother, you’re just potted, and NOT planted!” she almost yelled at me in front of a couple of dozen people. I didn’t understand what she was saying at first, but then the pastor came over, took her aside and spoke to her – gently. She apologized afterwards for her behaviour, and I graciously accepted it, but it just goes to show you folks, that some people in the church scene think that they OWN you!

    We were bought with a price – the precious blood of the Lamb of God, Jesus Christ – HE owns me, and nobody else. They can have their “greenhouse churches” where everybody has been ‘unpotted’ and planted in the house of C3, COC, HS, ACC, Isee, and all the rest of them. I just want to be planted in the house of the Lord, and become that fruitful vine, so that where ever I am I can be a blessing without being marked for ownership. I am not anybody’s ‘pot plant’, and neither are you!

    Jesus Christ is our good shepherd and we are His sheep. People shouldn’t be so foolish as to obey the words of this false profit, who is obviously using scripture twisting exercises in order to build his own kingdom, and not the kingdom of God!
    Guilt tripping people into staying is a cult tactic and never was a part of orthodox Christian belief or practice, in any man’s language.

    Austin Hellier
    ‘planted in the house’

  15. Actually, there were only a few statements there that I think I had a problem with. If Mark Driscoll or John Mcarthur said the same thing, people would think nothing of some of those comments.

    • squidaloopa said:

      Are you referring to Phil’s and Mark’s quotes?

      Well to a degree I agree with some of them. But why such offensive defence from Phil and Mark? Because they can’t handle criticism? They don’t like their agendas/attitudes exposed?

      Well on this site we’re not (all) accusers; well I won’t be for one. And based on your (Q’s) previous comments to only want “evidence”, I applaud you.

      And this is what I try and base all my comments on this site on – Proverbs 3:30 – “Do not accuse anyone for no reason – when they have done you no harm.”

      Look at some other comments – we previously ascertained who the “too young to be this messed up!” comment was about.
      For the majority of the other comments, I find a very, very fine line between being positive and using a bit of mind control: “DON’T you DARE criticise and pull down your pastor or anybody else around here!” (are we criticising or being critical?), NOT to look at blogs, you MUST tithe, if you don’t tithe you’re distorting scripture.

      Another thing Phil, and unfortunately other c3 pastors say (and I have experience of this), is they mock people who either a) get hurt by the church, or b) disagree with what is preached/attitude etc of the church. Regarding (a) – so, having your marriage break up – that’s nothing to get upset about? Yes, it happens at c3! I can point you to a few I personally know about happening right now.

      What a SHAME when people are so dedicated (bent?) on serving in their church (and the 2 of 3 I know of recently are in the same c3) rather than pulling out and saving their marriage. No, church is more important! Being on roster is more important! “Well, mummy wanted me to stop singing at church, but I CAN’T do that! She doesn’t understand church is the MOST important thing in my life! If she can’t handle that she can leave! Naughty mummy!”. I’d better stop now or I might get a cease and desist letter!

      And finally – some of the stuff on here – the genuine articles, not the mudslinging, MUST be getting to Phil, Mark, leadership etc. There are 4 mentions (emphasis mine):

      “If you’re a critic-awwwe! Get over it! Get beyond that! Stop reading those BLOGS!” – Phil

      “But finding scriptures that will suit what I want and convenient. Or theology or BLOGGERS or somebody else it going to back me up…” – Phil

      “If you haven’t started tithing, start tithing….Ignore the BLOGGERS. Ignore that rubbish. It’s rubbish! Everyone say rubbish! The don’t know what they’re talking about! We need to be convinced what the Word of God says…” – Mark (extras to add that we apparently don’t know what the Bible says re tithing.)

      “So if you’re into the FACEBOOK thing and you’re online right now…” – Phil

      PS – Can’t speak for McArthur, however many – including elders – are leaving Driscoll’s church. Maybe he’s going along the same lines?

    • kreewater said:

      I too have witnessed first hand the mocking of people by the Pastors of C3 of those who have been hurt or disagreed with them. I would have thought that if people were REALLY sincerely following Christ, the very moment that they heard a Pastor mocking others (for whateve reason) a giant alarm bell would have gone off! If you are sitting in Church and hear your Pastor scoff at or mock people who have been hurt or who have left through disagreement, you should get up and walk away immediately. The “pulpit” is not for carrying on like this – it is for preaching the gospel of Jesus. If you sit there and listen – or worse still, if you laugh or clap in agreement when this happens, you are in need of some immediate and intense self-examination.

  16. I’ve just read this page. It sounds like they are actually focused on building the church.

    I agree with what they are saying. Don’t make it your mission to tear down the church, build it up!

    • We don’t tear down the church Dan. We expose dangerous and illegally operating cults that dare to hide themselves under the disguise of Christianity.

    • Are people not coming to know Jesus through this ministry?

    • This is the issue. Tell us which Jesus Hillsong preaches and we will answer you.

      2 Corinthians 11:

      1I hope you will put up with me in a little foolishness. Yes, please put up with me! 2I am jealous for you with a godly jealousy. I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him. 3But I am afraid that just as Eve was deceived by the serpent’s cunning, your minds may somehow be led astray from your sincere and pure devotion to Christ. 4For if someone comes to you and preaches a Jesus other than the Jesus we preached, or if you receive a different spirit from the Spirit you received, or a different gospel from the one you accepted, you put up with it easily enough.

    • A more technical question, what do you mean by illegally operating?

  17. Why are you all against these guys. I’ve just read the quotes you put up and it sounds like good teaching to me.

    Good on you C3 keep up the good work!

  18. Jonny logeye said:

    Suggest you watch Ps Phils preaching and scriptural quotes from last Sunday and take a good hard long look at your website.

    • You’re so confident that Phil’s preaching has changed, you’ve given your “real” name? Thanks for the vote of confidence in Pringle, “jonny logeye”.

  19. I agree with Phil Pringle. That’s good teaching. People on this church watch thing are caught up in a pharisaical spirit. I can be and have been very critical to my and my family’s detriment. Criticism needs to be tempered.

    • Thanks for commenting Longmal.

      There are former members of C3 who have been commenting here and on https://churchwatchcentral.com/ for years. Their testimonies are just as important to us as your feedback.

      Phil Pringle’s reputation is gaining quite a bit of publicity as he and his movement continue their “vision-casting/ed” incursion around the globe. As this movement (and others like Hillosng) grows, the more discerning Christian starts to compare what he says to the Word of God and unfortunately it falls far short of biblical integrity. Let it also be noted, he is a proven false prophet.

      Very fair and biblical critiques of Phil’s sermons are given here:

      http://www.piratechristian.com/search?q=phil%20pringle&f_collectionId=55de6923e4b0316f2d24335c

      Cheers, team Churchwatch

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