It is a pastor and teacher’s role and duty to protect the sheep from wolves in sheep’s clothing. It is their biblical duty to expose them and cast them out of God’s flock.
If you attend C3 Church, please take note what pastors around the world are starting to say about Phil Pringle. It would be wise to heed their counsel.
___________________________
Pastor Ron Parker comments on Phil Pringle:
“As I look through this material [on C3 Church Watch], I recognize The New Age movement and its deception. Like Rick Warren and his Purpose driven New Age theme, the world is falling into a trap to ensnare the man with itching ears with a new gospel, which are lies. I can see how the deception works descreetly and makes it look good. Satan himself was created by God and was a beautiful Arc Angel. So he makes bad things look good to our eyes. But the Bible is true and Satan is a liar. We are set free from the world by Jesus Christ and Him alone. Saying all that, I would put Phil Pringle and Rick Warren in the same class!” – Pastor Ron Parker, Cornerstone Community Church, 16100 Hwy 71, Savannah, MO 64485.
___________________________
Pastor Gervase Nicholas E. Charmley comments on Phil Pringle:
“Phil Pringle Is A Twit” Says Pastor Charmley
Pringle Says Honour Bevere With Money “To Trigger The Impact of Grace In Your Life”
Is Phil Pringle Responding To Rosebrough & Charmley’s Criticism?
– From Bethel Evangelical Free Church, Hanley, Stoke on Trent.
___________________________
International Christian Radio Presenter Chris Rosebrough comments on Phil Pringle and the C3 Movement:
The Pirate, The Presence & The Peddlers
Rosebrough Claims Pringle & Furtick’s Fleecing At Presence Conference Is “Flat-out Criminal”
Excerpt: “… I’m going to be playing the audio from a video segment where they are – where Phil Pringle is basically getting people geared up to give for a miracle offering. Give money and you’ll receive a miracle. It’s – I mean it is- so, so blatantly obvious and just terrible as to how they are, you know, fleecing the people attending the Presence Conference! And using God as the pretense for it. It’s- it’s- uh-ah-ih- I don’t even want to say it borders on criminal. I think it’s flat-out criminal. I can’t see that this is not a crime in the Kingdom of God, what these men are doing. Steven Furtick and Phil Pringle, both.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (8:20), 13/04/2012.
Chris Rosebrough Critiquing Phil Pringle At C3 San Diego (12/02/2012)
___________________________
Moriel Ministries Pastor and teacher Jacob Prasch comments on Phil Pringle and the C3 Movement:
“… When people get fed up with being financially exploited and begin to leave the church, the heavy shepherding takes over and these people are told “they have a spirit of rebellion”.
All of this mess comes from the ‘Mixture’ of secular psychology and the vain philosophies of the world with biblical psychology and Christian doctrine. This same mixture is why we see so many Christians in churches like Toronto Preacher Phil Pringle’s City Church in Sydney get involved in things like Amway and in pyramiding schemes. Psychologised Christians are prone to such things because such schemes are based on psycho babel disguising itself as biblical principles…” – Jacob Prasch, Understanding “The Mixture” from 1 Thessalonians, http://www.moriel.org/articles/sermons/understanding_the_mixture.htm. (Accessed 08/02/2012.)
Ps Prasch: “Pringle Gets Involved In Things Like Amway & Pyramiding Schemes
___________________________
Pastor, Missionary and Teacher Salvador Hayworth from KwaZulu Mission and Moriel Missions South Africa comments on Phil Pringle and the C3 Movement:
“When I see this material and see the doctrine and practices of the C3 church crowd, I cannot help but notice that biblical prophecy is being fulfilled before our very eyes. 2 Peter 2:1-6 prophecies [sic]
1 But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall privily bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their lascivious doings; by reason of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And in covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose sentence now from of old lingereth not, and their destruction slumbereth not. 4 For if God spared not angels when they sinned, but cast them down to hell, and committed them to pits of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5 and spared not the ancient world, but preserved Noah with seven others, a preacher of righteousness, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, having made them an example unto those that should live ungodly;” Their destruction does not sleep. We don’t make judgment about these kind of teachers,. God has already made the judgment. These men are to be avoided. Just as those who camped with Korah went down into Sheol with Korah, so those who camp with these men will share in the same judgment.”
Church Leaders Speak Out
___________________________
Pastor Tony Dean from Moriah Ministries comments on Phil Pringle and the C3 Movement:
“There are millions upon millions ensnared in this false ‘Church’, and the only way they will ever be led out, is by having the true Gospel preached to the mega-masses, and by exposing the lies of their leaders. Only the Gospel is the power of God unto salvation, not gimmicks… the Gospel alone! Most of these people have never heard the true Gospel, and sadly, as you will discover, many do not want to! They are quite content to further indulge their sensuality and call it ‘a fresh move of the Holy Spirit’. . .
False prophets and false teachers abound, from Phil Pringle’s C3 enigmatic empire, to Brian Houston’s delusions of grandeur, and every nutcase in between, the professing Christian Church is literally infested with tongue wagging termites leading the deceived away into perdition. And we are told to not be ‘judgmental’ by mentioning the fact.”
And also says:
Well, as expected Senior Pastor of the Oxford Falls Christian City Church, Phil Pringle has exposed himself as a false prophet by shamelessly proclaiming in the Lord’s Name that an event would take place which did not. . .
Phil Pringle has been caught out uttering what the Bible calls, ‘Vain Imaginations’ and according to Scripture has invited the Lord’s rejection and wrath.
I am quite confident the Charismatic Spin Machine is presently working overtime to get around this one! And while some may consider this matter a small thing let me assure you the Heavenly Father does NOT!
“Phil Pringle – False Prophet” Christian-Witness Ministries Claims
___________________________
C3 Church Watch 
False prophets are many these days and they have nothing to lose. Unlike the Old Testament days when false prophets were put to death these days they get away with murder.
There are a lot of false teachers out there including Pastor Tony Dean from Moriah ministries. They go around telling whats wrong in other churches yet they fail to see their own faults in their own church.
It does help to know background information on the guys running this site and others.
I’m not a supporter of Pringle and also information I have on the guys running moriah ministries I would not trust them either.
Just read this. Interesting Alan that despite your accusatory criticism of Moriah Ministries Australia and of me Tony Dean, that I have never once heard from you personally regarding your concerns as is the responsibility of a professing believer in Christ (Galatians 6:1). While I consider your remarks bordering on slander, I invite you to contact me to discuss your concerns rather than hiding behind the anonymity of a blog post throwing your stones. moriah@adam.com.au is my email address. I’ll look forward to hearing from you.
I just read this. Really Alan? So you have issues with Moriah Ministries Australia and with me in particular (Tony Dean) do you? How is it then Alan that with all of your complaint and distrust of us which you are so freely prepared to telegraph to others, that you have never once contacted me personally or Moriah Ministries Australia generally pertaining to your complaints as is the responsibility of a believer in Christ? (Galatians 6:1) While I consider your comments bordering on slander, I invite you to contact me personally to discuss your issues. You can contact me through our secure mail at: http://www.moriah.com.au/contact.html
Looking forward to hearing from you.
Tony Dean
Director – Moriah Ministries Australia
O ye who believe! there are indeed many among the priests and anchorites, who in Falsehood devour the substance of men and hinder (them) from the way of God. And there are those who bury gold and silver and spend it not in the way of God: announce unto them a most grievous penalty-
These bastards who are the so called pastors (husband and wife money spinners) at C3 Hobart Tas have stolen a families son to marry their daughter and now he has been brainwashed into locking out his family( non c3) His family have not been allowed to see their new grandson ever. How is it that a Christian pastor would believe this behaviour fair or not cruel for a family and what other christian pastors drive new BMWs and live in a million dollar house and live off rental property?????? Go figure?
@ angry
have you been part of the hobart c3 congregation?
Whoever wrote this is firstly too gutless to post their name and is obviously very twisted! I am simply astonished at this garbage. Wake up and take a look at yourself.
Hey Angry, have you ever thought about the fact that the pastors may have gotten wealthy before they pastored the church or that any person has a right to start a real estate business to fund their retirement as the church pay is usually lousy? I don’t know these pastors, they may be money hungry grubs or they may be good godly people that have been smart with their money, their inheritances or whatever. All I’m saying is unless you have facts that they are robbing the people in the church blind by paying themselves ridiculous amounts of money, you probably should shoot off at the mouth like that and judge.
I personally think that if government officials and other public figures have their incomes published, pastors of churches probably should to as they are holding a public position but if they make a lot of money on a side business, that’s fine.
I have spent decade working in ministry and my pay average has been below $35k a year, no retirement plan. Starting a business and making some money is not some evil thing, it’s when it owns you that it becomes a problem.
The worst parts of hell are reserved for phil pringle who is spiritually dirty and his satanic pastors
But thats wrong to say and wish over ps Pringle!
I was in his church for 6 years and i worked hard give money and served as if it was for God.
While i dont agree with C3 i must pinch in and say that its NOT A CHRISTIAN thing to think and wish even when you are mad…Bless ps Phil and let God be the judge of that.
Time heales all wounds…i was there…..
how would you know sarah
Hi Paul,
As you can see, people have been significantly hurt by the C3 Church movement. Many attempt the biblical route of meeting leaders or members who have done them wrong privately. Many have tried to bring correction to leaders or members who embrace weird or false teaching within the movement.
As a result, some have been demonised, some have been shunned, others have been slandered or destroyed by the movement. So we think it is healthy for people to express their raw feelings. However, we do have guidelines that we wish commentors take seriously.
This means we do not necessarily endorse what individuals say. Furthermore, we would like to inform you that Phil Pringle is not a Pastor. His diploma is false and his teaching is founded on New Age and occult practices (visualisation, universal principles to obtain wealth and health, speaking things into existence).
Since he considers himself a prophet, (an Elijah, John the Baptist and Messiah-like figure) and considers his movement has the answer to the problems for the universal church, this would place him and his movement with that of Joseph Smith and his Mormon cult. Christian churches who join his movement are considered true churches. What sets them apart from the Universal church is C3’s unique unscriptural teaching and false methodologies.
Within the C3 Cult, members are taught not to think no negative thoughts, speak no negative words, hear no negative and to hang out with no negative people. Yet faith is redefined to mean ‘thinking or feeling positive all the time’. This is thought, emotional and behavioural control.
If Phil Pringle is the head of the C3 Church movement and is unrepentant in his teaching, his sins and the hurt he is causing in the body of Christ – then yes, sadly, he will be heading for hell. Just as false prophets were cast away before Jesus into hell (Matt 7), so too will Phil Pringle. That is, unless he repents.
“…what other christian pastors drive new BMWs…”
Phil Pringle does, and so does his wife. Some of the other “pastors” at C3OF drive Mercedes Benzes. And all this while they advise those who are in “out of control debt” that “the tithe should be [their] first priority”.
It must be nice sitting at the top of the gnostic pyramid; it’s sad that Judgement Day is going to ruin the party for so many well-heeled peddlers of the prosperity gospel.
It is quite possible that Phil and his wife derive their income from other sources as I am led to believe that he does not receive renumeration from C3
Would it not be best and honest to find out first before alleging?
Grow up !!!!!!!!!!! and stop having resentment
“Grow up !!!!!!!!!!! and stop having resentment”
Are you talking to me, Paul? Would you like to explain to us why “pastors” at C3OF should be living high on the hog at the expense of their hapless congregants (who are, in fact, sheep without a shepherd)?
Would you like to explain why “pastors” need expensive foreign cars? Would you like to explain to us why it is acceptable for “pastors” to love money and possessions?
My guess is that you wouldn’t – indeed, my guess is that you can’t. That is why it is *you* who is resentful, as so clearly evident from your comment, which is nothing more than a juvenile outburst that is entirely devoid of substance.
Why is it that C3 apologists are so uniformly dull and predictable?
Please email us what you know to c3churchwatch@hotmail.com and we’ll try and examine this further.
Its very simple Phil owns the church and has access to all the money and accounts. He does not need a wage. You can see the accounts if you look hard enough, $2million goes out every year to rental? Phil used to preach that he would never borrow money from a bank, why is their a huge bank loan now? Where did it go. Does he rent the church back to the congregation?
What are his comments today about the Jailing of Kong Hee? AND on it goes.
Hope it has nothing to do with the TOWNSENDS!
When I see this material and see the doctrine and practices of the C3 church crowd, I cannot help but notice that biblical prophecy is being fulfilled before our very eyes. 2 Peter 2:1-6 prophecies 1 But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall privily bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Master that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction. 2 And many shall follow their lascivious doings; by reason of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of.
3 And in covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose sentence now from of old lingereth not, and their destruction slumbereth not. 4 For if God spared not angels when they sinned, but cast them down to hell, and committed them to pits of darkness, to be reserved unto judgment; 5 and spared not the ancient world, but preserved Noah with seven others, a preacher of righteousness, when he brought a flood upon the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, having made them an example unto those that should live ungodly;” Their destruction does not sleep. We don’t make judgment about these kind of teachers,. God has already made the judgment. These men are to be avoided. Just as those who camped with Korah went down into Sheol with Korah, so those who camp with these men will share in the same judgment.
After finding this website and reading these comments Iam so glad I escaped them. I was going to one of their churches for a number of years and had assisted in youth ministry. Upon having two sudden deaths in the family not one person from that “caring” place even called me to offer their condolences. At the time I was deeply upset, how could Christians behave like that. I felt like I had passed my use by date and from their actions (or lack of) I could only conclude they are users, manipulaters and money hungry. Now I thank God they treated me like that and I escaped.
I am glad you escaped, Sue. Escapees for Jesus!
Dear,Sue Smith,
For this reason we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to ask that you may be filled with the knowledge of His will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding; 10 that you may walk worthy of the Lord, fully pleasing Him, being fruitful in every good work and increasing in the knowledge of God; 11 strengthened with all might, according to His glorious power, for all patience and longsuffering with joy; 12 giving thanks to the Father who has qualified us to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in the light. 13 He has delivered us from the power of darkness and conveyed us into the kingdom of the Son of His l
Colossians 1
New King James Version (NKJV)
Hi everyone,
I have been attending the c3 church nearest my house for just over a year now. I know most of you are probably now keening over in pity for my plight- but wait.
During the services at my church I can honestly say that I have only ever felt disconcerted with the sermon material once. When we had Phil Pringle as a guest preacher for our young adults service.
He started with the whole prosperity gospel shindig… And I, as well as several others from the congregation walked out mid- service.
I am very much the type who studies the Word in my own time in order to ensure that my beliefs, and those preached on sundays align with the scripture and I can honestly say that my pastors have never even alluded to the prosperity teachings during a service.
Our belief statement on the website is also markedly different to that of the c3i’s… The statements regarding both reaping benefit through tithes and the evidence of salvation being manifested in the gift of tongues have both altered to align more scripturally.
I have even had a friend of mine (who’s a Baptist minister) attend a service with me and did not find the teachings to be unbiblical.
Still, my church refers to themselves as c3… Still attends the presence conferences and sings c3of songs.
What does one do in this situation? Even though I am convinced that my church is removed from the overpowering and blatantly unscriptual charisma of Phil Pringle, should the fact that they are still affiliated with the c3i disturb me?
There are great C3 Churches out there, very many in fact that are not a chip of the old block – c3of. It’s a bit of a mystery to me. Many churches that joined for the relationships they had with others that were not PP or anyone from Oxford Falls. Many of the pastors have things that bother them about C3 but choose to stay in relationship in the hope that things will change. If your church is not doing things unscripturally, don’t be alarmed but keep an eye out. Your pastors seem like good people, they’ll walk their own path. Oh, and salvation by evidence of speaking in tongues has never been a C3 doctrine as far as I know…I’ve never heard it preached or taught ever…if it’s written somewhere, I stand corrected but it’s never been taught. Reaping benefit through tithing is taught non stop though. You should feel free to bring up your concerns with your pastors that you have with C3 and let them know how you feel. Perhaps if enough people do, it may affect change. If they shut you down and don’t give you honest answers and tell you to blindly obey, then you have a problem.
” Reaping benefit through tithing is taught non stop though ”
Nice observation ‘Mr Smith’ seeing as though c3 has changed the old testament ‘tithing law’ to help themselves .(Or rather adopted it from other denominations, thus aligning themselves with others who try to manipulate GOD’S word to suit themselves).
Eyes, I’m not defending it, just stating a fact. And you are right, tithing is not a new testament principle. Giving is always something we do, christ gave everything for us and in order to be christlike, we should do the same but giving ten percent to a church is not biblical. I’ve been taught that forever and it’s nice to wake up and see the truth. Most pastors would never stop preaching it as they think it will be the end of their buildings, bmw’s and wages. If only they could grasp the new testament concept that all we are, everything we have, 100% is God’s. He is our king, not any man.
What church us that
James 1
New International Version (NIV)
1 James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations:
Greetings.
Trials and Temptations
2 Consider it pure joy, my brothers and sisters,[a] whenever you face trials of many kinds, 3 because you know that the testing of your faith produces perseverance. 4 Let perseverance finish its work so that you may be mature and complete, not lacking anything. 5 If any of you lacks wisdom, you should ask God, who gives generously to all without finding fault, and it will be given to you. 6 But when you ask, you must believe and not doubt, because the one who doubts is like a wave of the sea, blown and tossed by the wind. 7 That person should not expect to receive anything from the Lord. 8 Such a person is double-minded and unstable in all they do.
9 Believers in humble circumstances ought to take pride in their high position. 10 But the rich should take pride in their humiliation—since they will pass away like a wild flower. 11 For the sun rises with scorching heat and withers the plant; its blossom falls and its beauty is destroyed. In the same way, the rich will fade away even while they go about their business.
12 Blessed is the one who perseveres under trial because, having stood the test, that person will receive the crown of life that the Lord has promised to those who love him.
13 When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14 but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.
16 Don’t be deceived, my dear brothers and sisters. 17 Every good and perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of the heavenly lights, who does not change like shifting shadows. 18 He chose to give us birth through the word of truth, that we might be a kind of firstfruits of all he created.
Listening and Doing
19 My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, 20 because human anger does not produce the righteousness that God desires. 21 Therefore, get rid of all moral filth and the evil that is so prevalent and humbly accept the word planted in you, which can save you.
22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says. 23 Anyone who listens to the word but does not do what it says is like someone who looks at his face in a mirror 24 and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediately forgets what he looks like. 25 But whoever looks intently into the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues in it—not forgetting what they have heard, but doing it—they will be blessed in what they do.
26 Those who consider themselves religious and yet do not keep a tight rein on their tongues deceive themselves, and their religion is worthless. 27 Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress and to keep oneself from being polluted by the world.
Its good to see that phil Pringle @c3 are starting to reap what they’ve sewn they speak down to people are controlling manipulative ruin people’s lives preach twisted scripture and bully people. I love the fact that they are being exposed for who they really are unfortunately the ruined lives cannot be mended
Dear Sarah
Your words are right on target and I personally appreciate them very much. Justice is paramount.
Ruined lives can mend through gracious and truthful words of compassion that you have already spoken above.
God bless you on this last day of 2012.
I can’t believe the venomous remarks and absolute hate of a Christian Pastor that I read in this column. I will pray for you all. If you do have these firm convictions – remember that as Christians we should forgive and not condemn 70 x 7 times.
Are you all Christians or a few hateful persons under many synonyms.
Satan loves this kind of hate.
Hi Lee
You are absolutely incorrect. We should forgive and not condemn 70 x 7 times ONLY if the offender repents. What does the Bible say?
“Take heed to yourselves. If your brother sins against you, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him. And if he sins against you seven times in a day, and seven times in a day returns to you, saying, ‘I repent’, you shall forgive him.”
Luke 17:3-4, Jesus Christ, New Testatment, The Bible, NKJV
There are very few Christians who are unwilling to forgive offenders who repent. Repentance by an offender involves taking full responsibility for the offence in humility. Without such repentance, it is very difficult to restore the relationship between the victim of the offender’s sin and the offender. It is this repentance in relationships that’s missing in the church today. Such repentance makes it extremely easy to forgive the offender because such repentance involves the offender owning the sin and confessing the truth that they have wronged the victim.
It is far from wise of you, Lee, to fire off in your comment when it has no basis in the words of Jesus Christ Himself that I’ve quoted above. People like you are the reason that the church has become so weak today.
I can see that you and your followers (possibly pseudonyms as remarked by Lee) have grouped themselves as Judge and Jury Masquerading as ‘Christians’ but behaving as foul mouthed spitting serpents with venomous biblical babble finger pointing.
I believe that anonymous religious hate sites such as your own should be closed and the internet cleaned up. Your comments are not representative of Christianity.
However this may not be possible as Satan is the accuser and possibly your greatest influence and supporter/sponsor.
You have set yourself up to be Judged.. True Christians will not be intimidated by your hate.
“You have set yourself up to be Judged.. True Christians will not be intimidated by your hate.”
Then Phil Pringle must not be a true Christian, because the articles and comments on this web site, revealing as they do the deceptive and fraudulent nature of his C3 movement, have got him really badly rattled.
Andrew Mackinnon….. Who the hell do you think you are to speak to a woman like that…. Get it together you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about!!!
I suggest you apologise
Here’s a few scriptures for you…
Proverbs 18:2
A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing his opinion.
Proverbs 29:11
A fool gives full vent to his spirit, but a wise man quietly holds it back.
Matthew 5:22
But I say to you that everyone who is angry with his brother will be liable to judgment; whoever insults his brother will be liable to the council; and whoever says, ‘You fool!’ will be liable to the hell of fire.
Titus 3:1-11
Remind them to be submissive to rulers and authorities, to be obedient, to be ready for every good work, to speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,
James 1:19-20
Know this, my beloved brotherse: let every person be quick to hear, slow to speak, slow to anger; for the anger of man does not produce the righteousness of God.
Peace x
Lee
When you come out of a C3 Church, out of the muddy waters, and stand on the shore, you can see much more than you could when in those filtjy waters. I found it hard to swim to shore but I swam a little harder each day and finally found my Saviour on the shore, waiting for me.
I had to do it myself! I exercised my will that was taken from me in a C3 Church. I was blinded and brain-washed. I couldn’t see it then, until I broke free of the chains that bound me (the 2 Pastors and their wives).
To be free is to be free indeed and I feel wonderful, as indeed I should, being a child of God and walking with Jesus. I now have joy and no fear of man.
I found Jesus and was set free from the Law of sin and death.
I joined a C3 Church and the Pastors and their wives, put me under THEIR set of Laws and I almost withered away until I headed for the shore and met with my Jesus once again.
O they are deceptive. They appear to be Godly, but they demand obedience and they demand your money. It’s THEIR way or their wrath and persecution in full measure.
Enough said. It’s all in my past and today I am a living testimony of the freedom and joy to be found outside any C3 Church/Cult.
Lee, I have given my own testimony based on my experience over many years. Don’t trash what I’ve said please. I speak from my heart, from my lived experience. You may defend a C3 Pastor based on your own personal experience, but don’t do it just by taking the high moral road.
Greasy Grace comes to mind as I read your missive.
This is serious and many lives have been trashed over many, many years.
“I can’t believe the venomous remarks and absolute hate of a Christian Pastor that I read in this column.”
Phil Pringle is not a pastor by any stretch of the imagination; whether or not he is a Christian remains an open question.
Sorrow oh I mean Zorro
You are simply delusional…. You have absolutely no idea what you are talking about… I am an ex c3 member and I do know what I m talking about !!!
Hey Luke Allen
I’m an ex-C3 member too, one who was once heavily involved, almost unofficial leadership. Believe me, the more I look back and look into what is happening, the more I understand all these claims about c3 being a cult (their words), c3 “leadership” (ie running the church as a business), and the ever-increasing push on money. Why would Mark Kelsey – in a baptismal service – spend almost the whole time talking about money and tithing? Is baptism a declaration of salvation or a declaration of you starting to give loads of money to c3? And believe me, the content/importance of money in that message is replicated throughout the c3 movement. Not all, but many, including the big ones.
I think I’m more than qualified to comment on what happens in c3. Maybe if they stop the constant hype and the continuous pushing for money, they might become more relevant. Perhaps if they stop trying to put millions into massive buildings (that aren’t even full in the first place) and having expensive comfortable chairs and instead into the community, they would be more effective than the big LCD screens and light shows. Perhaps if they didn’t make Pringle’s “You the Leader” mandatory leadership reading, we wouldn’t be faced with single-eyed yes men. Admittedly, there are some good parts of thT book – and there’s some absolute bollocks.
And believe me, there are numerous people in my position who are leaving c3 because they want substance, not some inward looking money-focused church.
Hey Lee and Andrew – please refer me to a church where a) you can be told what you have to say for an offering message, b) your sermons have to pass senior leadership review before you preach (obviously because they let people preach who have no or little theological training, but full of “your best life” opinions), c) take a cut of the offerings taken for visiting speakers/other church departments.
If other churches do, I stand corrected. But the above seem very controlling, and 2/3 are very money focused.
Im hearing you Lee these guys have nothing better to do , but to waste Gods time and those who are being saved
Andrew McKinnon, Lee – its so encouraging to hear your words of truth and discernment – you are both so spot on. The lives they ruin can’t often be fixed because of the wasted years spent in the church those years you can never get back let alone the damage to self esteem and trust. Don’t know where they get the idea that it is ok to speak down to people control them let alone the bad taste jokes – totally against God’s Word
Unfortunately I had attended a c3 church in sydney for about 5 years. I can barely remember the scriptures quoted in the sermons… I remember feeling “full of faith” (which is great) and gaining steps to live my “best life” (also great) but it wasnt until i left the church and moved up north (now attending another church (not c3)), that I realised that the word of God was hardly used by any c3 pastor I have listened to… It felt more motivating then anything to do with JESUS. I had spent more time on my iPod listening to podcasts from incredible preachers around the world, on my daily commute to work and back, who would actually base their sermons on JESUS and HIS WORD. The sole reason why we are on this earth, is to know more about our FATHER and how we can worship him and give him our ALL! Im tired of “feel good” sermons… Nothing wrong with them but people need to hear the truth about this man Jesus. Take the focus off ourselves and live to worship Jesus.
Well said Hope. Praise God there someone can see the difference! I have to say that their teaching is weak, they are superb at creating a ‘feel-good’ atmosphere just check out their Presence conferences- nothing more than Antony Robbin motivational style approach with a few tried and tested, tired old verses, rehashed and thrown in for good measure. Nothing is explained in great depth
Hope and Jeramiah, I think this is the crux of the c3 dilemma. The church certainly is very poor when it comes to the Word. While Phil Pringle is a good communicator – he preaches in a prophetic style – and often it’s quite good – interesting and engaging. But when the franchised “pastors” try the same – with trendy clothes, cool haircuts, plenty of verbal padding ” i’ m going to speak into your world, and it’s going to be awesome” – it’s just completely lame. When i brought visitors I would feel acutely embarrassed by the clumsy “try-hards” trying to emulate Phil Pringle without any power or anointing. I often found myself apologizing to my visitor I had tried so hard to get along.
Similarly the franchised pastors try to exercise leadership authority in the same way Pringle does. Unfortunately these people aren’t able to carry this off and disaster results. The big flaw with C3 is the control management style. It seems that their shelves are lined with old style “theory x” management texts. It’s like they’ve been left behind in the 1950s. The movement just hasn’t grown up and shows no signs of improvement.
While I’m not involved in c3 these days, I have visited c3 Marion, and Jude Blaney the leader there is a struggler, relying on his pretty poor political skill to keep thing afloat – and that’s why they are in so much strife. You won’t hear the gospel preached there. It’s fair to say that novice pastors like Jude are not of the same caliber as the early crop of talent when the movement was younger and more vibrant in the early 1990s. Jude Blaney was accepted into C3 based on the fact that he had “appropriated” a large amount of property from the Bethesda Movement. That not a valid qualification for ministry. The 20/20 vision has seen an influx of low quality pastors into C3 especially as 2020 looms nearer.
If only c3 were Bible based I would be able to overlook the many flaws and would probably still attend.
I knew Jude Blaney from the Bethesda days. From what I knew back then none of this current stuff surprises me.
There is definitely a class of “pastors” in C3 who are in the ministry just because they want to be. Often they have no experience in business (or successful business) and very few credentials. If they tried to get a professional type job they wouldn’t be able to function well – no one in the real world would put up with the self-righteous authoritarian attitude a lot of these guys portray – they’d quickly get rolled by any modern thinking manager/leader. Note Jude Blaney’s day job is a humble marriage celebrant,
Routinely they get involved in silly money making schemes – unfortunately they co-opt members of their congregations too. (See the stuff on Kong Hee for a large scale version of this vile way of operating).
Many cling to the ministry as a type of family business – they don’t have to work hard and they transfer financial benefits to their spouses – salaries , travel and gifts.
Jude should stand down. He’s wrecked the old Bethesda church at Marion and it seems its getting worse.with the big sex abuse payout.
C3 don’t screen their potential pastors well enough. They’ve made this mistake dozens and dozens of times over the years. No-one can really feel safe going to a C3 church because there’s quite a good chance the leader will be an unstable and politically driven person.
This is rubbish. C3 Marion and Pastor Jude Blaney are awesome in every way. Yes the pastor’s wife gets paid but she deserves it. Shes there every Sunday right up the front of the service supporting Pastor Jude.They have mad a huge sacrifice to be in the church and deserve the money. Its work like anything else.
Pastor Jude Blaney is not a “struggler”… He runs a very successful marriage celebrant business and is studying at University to better himself – he must be the oldest student there and that to be admired. GO C3 Marion!
It’s so obvious how bitter and offensive (being on offense) the c3 supporters are. It would be great if they calmed down and didn’t come on here bringing satan and satan followers into things. Talk about over the top. But I guess that’s the way they talk when they listen to sermons full of over the top hot air.
I agree….the C3 [confusion, cash and conundrum ] contributers seem very sure of what is Satanic and Evil….but not quite so sure of what is Christian!
Well souls are important not just finances to C3,hillsong, Bethel, Jesus Culture ,Joseph Prince Joyce Meyer and Jesus Christ and so many more your hearts want to criticize and slander’ so until you can do what they are doing bringing the Lords Will here on earth, and this wordly kingdom to a God Kingdom just shut up and look at the plank in your own eyes before you look at the speck in someone else’s
“Well souls are important not just finances to C3,hillsong, Bethel, Jesus Culture ,Joseph Prince Joyce Meyer and Jesus Christ.”
How do you know these ministries are winning souls to Jesus Christ? What Jesus are they offering?
I see tay Paul Henselin posted a comment under his own name, unlike “Churchwatcher” and all the other anonymous people who spew their vitriol out on this site. Chruchwatcher and all you other anonymous posters on this site are cowards. If you really believe what you post, put your name to it!!
Dennis Zawislak said:
‘I see tay [sic] Paul Henselin posted a comment under his own name, unlike “Churchwatcher” and all the other anonymous people […]’
And we know that you are Dennis, which is really helpful: if you hadn’t apprised us of the fact, you would have been a nameless nonentity, whereas now you are a nonentity *with* a name. Excellent stuff.
“[…] who spew their vitriol out on this site.”
So Dennis, you are a big fan of projection by proxy, I see – like so many other naysayers who have come and gone on this site, your language is as unimaginative as it is predictable. It seems that the stock-in-trade of the offended pentecostal consists of nothing more than ad nauseum repetition of banality, bullying, and bluff. Don’t they teach you *anything* in your “House of God”, Dennis – or did you miss out on the anointing because you’ve neglected to “tithe”?
“Chruchwatcher [sic] and all you other anonymous posters on this site are cowards.”
And?
“If you really believe what you post, put your name to it!!”
How about this: if *you* really believe that Phil Pringle is anything but a greedy and manipulative new ager who twists Scripture for his own selfish ends, then state your case in a well-reasoned and Scripturally-based argument. If you don’t do that, we’ll understand that it’s because your position has no discernible merit whatsoever, and that you would consequently be exposed as a both a fool and a fraud, and hence a classic specimen of those sad C3 apologists who chance their arm commenting on this site – those who, in the face of God’s truth, invariably fail to stay their course.
Well, C3 think they are “bringing the Lord’s Will” here to Earth?….Yet ANOTHER cult teaching that Jesus Christ cannot, by His Power…do it without C3. I hope most of these people honestly seeking Christ find the Bible Truth…and stop feeding these wolves and Proven false Prophets.
Paul Henselin doesn’t seem to spend much time on Internet doing his homework. He’s just named a significant portion of the “Hall of Shame” (apart from Jesus of course).
Paul, I’d just like to say that, when I was a young Christian, I came across my fair share of false prophets and wayward ‘teachers’, but sadly, I didn’t see them for what they were at the time. We don’t always see these people coming.
It’s one thing for the local false prophet to drive past you in their flash new BMW, it’s another thing entirely for them to “run over you” with it, and some of the folks here have obviously been ‘run over’ and left to choke in the dust of their predicament without any apparent support from their ministers.
I used to drive past $chool of the Profits (yep – I got the spelling right) in Brisbane many years ago, They too taught the ‘prosperity’ doctrine, and the townsfolk used to drive past there on Sundays too – and laugh their heads off, at the 200+ old bomb cars in the car park, alongside 5 or 6 nice new shiny ‘Beamers and Mercs’.
Paul, the so called prosperity doctrine, only works for the people who preach it, not for the followers. In any pyramidal money scheme/scam, orders flow down from the top and tithes float up to the top. You will never prosper financially by following those people, unless you are prepared to sell your soul to Mammon, and “join the team” – it’s as simple as that.
As for the ‘teachers’ that you named, let’s just have a quick look at them:
Joyce Meyer teaches that you can’t go to heaven unless you believe that Jesus went to Hell, (“by faith you are saved through grace…” Ephesians 2:8)
Brian Houston tells us that “You need more money” and his wife tells us that we need more sex. (themes from books that each of them have written)
Bill Johnson tells us that we need to “bring heaven down to Earth” but Jesus tells us that ‘the Kingdom of God is within you”. (Luke 17:20-21)
‘Jesus’ Culture tells us that we need more music – in other words, THEIR music in CD and DVD format (I can see why Brian told us that we needed more money,)
Joseph Prince tells us that we need more ‘grace’, which is not grace at all (the way he preaches it) it end up being lasciviousness or a veritable ‘license to sin’ and then hide behind his distorted view of ‘grace’. (see Jude 1:4)
If these are the people who are ‘bringing the Lord’s will here on Earth’ then all I can say is “stop the bus, I wanna get off”! We are living in the last of the Last Days deceptions as prophesied by Jesus in Matthew 24, and have seen many unwitting and ignorant sheep devoured by the wolves of Matthew 7. We have seen deceptive and manipulative “moves of God” on such a grand scale as has never been seen before. (see 2 Thess 2:9)
You need to do some homework and some serious Bible study, and ask that the Lord will grant you some real grace, so that “the eyes of your understanding may be opened” (Ephesians 1:18-19) and you will no longer wish to defend the undefendable.
There is no “slander” in anything I’ve said – just the facts – facts that can be gained over Internet from dozens of credible reliable watchman style ministries. Please, do some homework and then come back and have some meaningful discussions with the folks here.
In general folks, we need to be hard on the false shepherds and hirelings, as the role of any false prophet is to lead seeking souls away from the narrow way and onto the broad way that leads to destruction. At the same time be gentle with the sheep, as many of them are hurting. If the Spirit of the lord is truly upon us (Luke 4: 18-19) then we will acts as good shepherds, who hear the Master’s voice and only follow him. (John 10: 1-18)
Mmmmm what’s wrong with more money sex or music ???
I’m confused ???
“I used to drive past $chool of the Profits (yep – I got the spelling right) in Brisbane many years ago”
Ha, would love to know which one you’re referring to…if it was a while ago, I could probably guess….
Hey guys,
thanks for removing the SOP post – that’s really gonna help these people understand the issues, isn’t it? False profit ministries are every where, not just at Hillsong and C3, but then again if that is your focus – OK! Thanks for the airtime…
i’m just about to have my 35 year long testimony posted on The Narrowing Path blog – you can catch up with me there if you want, as it seems this blog just isn’t up for it…
Austin Hellier
.”removed”
Hey Austin,
When you say sop are you referring to the school by Gary Morgan? I ask because I experienced spiritual abuse there. When I voiced some issues I was kicked out and not allowed to graduate and they turned on me and threw false accusations at me. Then when I tried to go to other ministries and churches for healing and help they took sops side and refused to minister to me for fear of losing their relationship with him. It seems that high end leaders in the scene have an unhealthy amount of influence over others and people care more about listening to them because of their fame then Jesus? Multiple church leaders defended a spiritual abuser and therefore continued the cycle of abuse and became spiritual abusers themselves. I had no one to turn to for help and became isolated and pushed away from having a church life or community. I believe that many prophetic ministries are not really Christian as seen in my experience by their lack of fruit in how they treat people, they must operate in some kind of demonic power and make it look like they hear from God that way. True prophets would never treat me like I was treated there.
We are very sorry to hear of your experience. If you would like assistance in any way, please contact us.
If you want to have a good look at the progenitors of C3 and Hillsaong, then go to this link and look at a cult called “The Walk” and then the early “Vineyard” churches.
Looks to me like Naboth’s ‘Vineyard’ – after Jezebel had taken it over:
http://www.deceptioninthechurch.com/cultsandcharismatic.html
Bye
Austin Hellier
In reply to the tirade by dennis …”Seek not to know who said this or that, but take note of what has been said.” Thomas a Kempis.
Gees
How much money does Chris Rosebrough make annually?? What is his net worth? How does he make his money??? What kind of house does he have?? Does anybody know??
Ladybugmom09: Here you go! Email and ask him yourself – I’m sure you’re in for a surprise.
talkback@fightingforthefaith.com
The fly-by-night self made pastors are now in Singapore after Kong Hee appointed Phil Pringle as his successor and how did such a person get a work permit to work in Singapore strict government? Surely they should be alerted of Kong Hee acquaintances who are jailed Cho Yonggi, heretic Benny Hinn and now this…
He is a false teacher and obviously he may have ties to top men who allowed him in!
I attended C3 Auckland for a few years. I became uneasy with what I started to hear from the pulpit, sick of the pressure to give money, and began to question why all my friends were leaving the church.
I almost walked out when during the offering talk, one of the “pastors” (and I use quotation marks because one of my personal bugbears is their insistence on calling anyone in some sort of leadership role, as well as their spouse, a ‘pastor’ despite having no formal theological training… but i digress) says from the pulpit “there is no reason today why you should be poor. The only reason why people are poor is that they are either lazy, or don’t have enough faith”.
Final straw was when Phil Pringle came over to speak. There had recently been a massive “Rise and Build” push and the church had a new huge building, but alas, no huge projector to go with it! Only two projectors from the old building, which looked so small now on the huge back wall of the new building. So the big money push that night was to raise money for a new $30,000 projector. Because that’s what God wants for the church, right? And Pastor Phil made a huge deal about how he was personally going to put the first $1000 down right there, “and I believe you will get this new projector by the end of the week”.
And I’m thinking, really? I’m pretty sure God doesn’t care stuff all about a projector. But that is what it is all about at C3. Its about the “movement”, whatever that means really. Its about “5 ways to a better life”, “7 keys to financial freedom”. Its hype. I’m sure that a lot of the congregation, and many of the leaders, are well intentioned. But from my own understanding of who God is, I’m not sure its what he would have wanted.
M – was this in the distant past or more recently? Not that anything has changed.
I attended a C3 Church in Sydney’s South West for four years…the interesting thing is that God is faithful. I was hungry for the truth and the more I dug into the scriptures and sort out teachers with sound doctrine, the penny finally dropped whereby I, and my family had to leave. I thought I could stay there in the hope of maybe changing things for the better however the enemies’ deception is not to be underestimated.
The leadership was pointing the congregation to false teachers such as Joel Osteen…the very wolves they should be protecting the flock from.
They also had no problem with inviting a “female Pastor” to teach and preach at the church in direct disobedience to God’s word.
I learned that contending earnestly for the faith comes at a cost. My criticisms of Joel Osteen were perceived (as usual) as divisive, judgemental, unloving etc, as it prompted a month long series of “death and life are in the power of the tongue” sermons.
We are now in a church where the word of God is honoured and Christ is exalted…plus, there’s actually preaching on repentance, humility, contentment, personal holiness – it’s wonderful.
Gone is the psychological babel, the emotional, feel-good new age positivity, the pragmatic sermons, the secret/sensitive gospel.
You’ll never hear a charismatic/Pentecostal preacher teach on Matthew 7:21….I wonder why? Prophesying…casting out devils…working miracles… which movement is obsessed with these things? Depart from me – I never knew you.
AM