The Breakfast Network recently reported the following:
BN Special: The man who posted the God-Kong Hee video speaks to Breakfast Network
The Youtube video clip that went viral showing City Harvest Church founder Kong Hee “speaking” to God was posted by a church member who said he did it to “expose Kong and his lies”.
In an exclusive interview with Breakfast Network, he said that the 3½-minute clip he uploaded was a recording of a sermon the senior church pastor had delivered during a religious conference in Australia in April last year. He said he had obtained the clip last year from C3 Church Watch, a group that monitors the activities of a Sydney-based church, whose founder Phil Pringle is currently an advisory pastor with City Harvest Church.
According to the member, who posted the clip on Youtube under the id “anointedforworship”, Kong had made the same remarks during a church service last year to City Harvest members as well. He said he decided to make it public only now because he wanted to “show the sublimal messages embedded in the sermon and delivered through the pulpit”.
The church member declined to be named as he is still currently worshiping at City Harvest Church. He told BN: “Just to be clear, I’m posting the video not to ‘destroy the church’ but to expose the deception within carried by certain individuals who go as far as to abuse the trust and authority given to them.
“I believe people need to be warned about deception, especially when it happens in church, to protect them.”
Since the clip was uploaded on Sunday, netizens have roundly condemned Kong’s remarks in which he compared his involvement in the ongoing court case to Jesus’ suffering. Along with five other church leaders, Kong is currently on trial for embezzling millions in church funds which he allegedly used to finance his wife’s singing career. The trial began in May and is expected to resume next month.
In the clip, which was recorded about two years after investigations into the alleged charges began in 2010, Kong also claimed that God spoke to him and apologized for putting him through the trial, and that it was necessary to “bring change to your generation”.
“For the first time in eight months, God, I heard Him cry. And he said ‘My son, Kong, thank you. Thank you for going through this’,” Kong told the unseen congregation.
“‘I need you to go through this alone, so that you and City Harvest Church can be the man and the ministry I call it to be. I’m so sorry, but you need to go through this by yourself, to bring a change to your generation.’”
So far, the clip has been viewed more than 69,000 times, with 54 Likes and nearly 2,000 viewers expressing their disapproval. A parody of the clip featuring pop group ABBA was posted by another Youtube user yesterday.
Netizens have slammed the recording as it was shared on Facebook and Twitter over the last two days. Youtube user “soulsessions” said of the clip: “What a load of bullshit”. Another user, “futurelady2k”, called it “Nonsense.”
In a report posted today, Yahoo! News said it had contacted City Harvest Church for a response but had yet to receive one. Other church members interviewed said the clip may have been misinterpreted or taken out of context.
Credit goes to C3CW for getting me access to the footage from Presence Conference 2012. Cheers.
[I apologise in advance for the occasional skipping. Its a little bit of a rough edit, but everything’s there.]
Here is my next review on the C3 Church movement. The theme of this review is ‘the price of a human soul’. I review Andrew Kubala’s statements at Presence Conference 2012, namely, that we can sow a financial ‘seed’ offering for the salvation of our loved ones. I point out that no amount of money can buy salvation, and that the redemptive price of a human soul is the blood of Jesus Christ ALONE shed on the cross. It is ONLY by Christ’s sacrifice that sinners are saved; this one offering accomplished salvation once for all and is never to be repeated.
Please share this video with anyone you know who attends a C3 Church affiliated with Phil Pringle or Andrew Kubala, especially if they attended this year’s Presence Conference 2012 (April 10-13, Darling Harbour Convention Centre, Sydney)
City Harvest Church’s Kong Hee’s statement regarding charges
Updated 11:43 PM Jul 25, 2012
SINGAPORE – Founder of City Harvest Church, Kong Hee, has released a statement on the charges brought against him. The following is his statement in full.
“The Prosecution has brought 3 charges against me, which I have carefully considered with my lawyers.
“I do maintain my integrity, and will rigorously defend that integrity against these charges.
“I have and will continue to place my faith and trust in our judicial system. I will explain the facts and circumstances to the Court, and am confident that I will be vindicated.
“Sun and I would like to take this opportunity to thank God for all the people who have blessed us with their love, kindness and prayers during this challenging period of time. We have been tremendously humbled by the support and encouragement from the public, family and friends. We especially thank all those from City Harvest Church and the Christian community at large. They have been a constant source of strength.
“I respect the Court proceedings which are underway, and will not make any comment about the charges until the appropriate time and forum.”
By Qiuyi Tan/Claire Huang | Posted: 25 July 2012 0952 hrs
SINGAPORE: Another person has been charged in relation to the City Harvest Church court case.
City Harvest Church’s former finance manager, Serina Wee Gek Yin, was read 10 charges – six related to criminal breach of trust and four to falsifying accounts.
She joins five others, including founder Kong Hee, who were charged last month with misappropriating money from the church’s building fund.
Some S$24 million was allegedly transferred from the church’s building fund account to two companies as bond investments.
These were alleged to be “sham transactions” meant to mask the diversion of the church’s building fund to finance the pop music career of Sun Ho, the wife of Kong Hee.
A further sum of $26.6 million was allegedly used to create the impression that the sham bonds had been fully “redeemed”, a process called “round-tripping”.
Wee, 35, was the first amongst the defendants to arrive in court on Wednesday, wearing a black dress and sunglasses.
She was accompanied by her husband and her lawyers.
Court papers said she was involved in a conspiracy to misappropriate millions of dollars of church funds which were allegedly channelled into bond investments.
Wee allegedly instigated a church accountant to record false entries in the church books on four occasions.
In court with Wee were the five other church members who had been charged earlier.
They are Kong Hee, senior pastor Tan Ye Peng, investment manager Chew Eng Han, finance manager Sharon Tan, and board member Lam Leng Hung.
From as early as 7.30am Wednesday, City Harvest Church supporters gathered at the carpark outside the Subordinate Courts.
They began to stream into the court at around 8am.
The court session lasted all of 15 minutes and every minute was filled with tension.
Supporters of the church packed the public gallery within minutes of the courtroom opening, while people from the media and the defence lawyers of the six accused persons filled the other half of the courtroom.
Kong Hee is represented by Mr Edwin Tong, while the rest have engaged senior counsel.
During the session, prosecution and defence came to agreement that the next mention will be 5 weeks later, on 30 August, so that all cases can be brought up at the same time.
All six are claiming trial and are out on bail of S$500,000 each.
[Email email@example.com for access to the original audio/video of Kong Hee played in this review.]
I received some positive feedback from my last video review and so I decided to record another. This particular review focuses on Phil Pringle’s negligence in allowing Kong Hee of City Harvest Church Singapore to collect the opening offering on opening night at Presence Conference 2012, all the while being under investigation for misuse of church funds, about which Phil Pringle was completely aware and yet failed to mention any of the relevant details concerning the investigations to those attending the conference and watching online via live webcast. I critique Kong’s offering talk wherein he twists God’s word to fleece the audience.
Instead of getting the facts, the audience was fed a one sided propaganda piece, painting Kong as the victim and Phil Pringle as the hero who swooped in to save the day. As you watch this review, ask yourself: would the audience have been so willing to hand over their money at the conference if they knew that the man encouraging them to ‘give’ was currently under investigation for misuse of church funds? I don’t think so. This review will focus on Phil Pringle’s NEGLIGENCE in allowing all this to happen.
Please share this video with anyone you know who attends a C3 Church affiliated with Phil Pringle, especially if they attended this year’s Presence Conference 2012 (April 10-13, Darling Harbour Convention Centre, Sydney)
Below you will find links to the news articles I play in this review.
City Harvest’s founder Kong Hee, four others arrested – 26Jun2012
[Disclaimer: I agree with the statement made by Deputy Prime Minister and Home Affairs Minister Teo Chee Hean in this video that the law should be allowed to take its course and speculation or pre-judgments should be avoided. Therefore, I do not endorse Joanne Chan’s explanation concerning how CHC’s funds may have been misused over the years (see video at 2:20), as this could be considered by some as speculation and pre-judgement.]
City Harvest’s founder Kong Hee, four others charged – 27Jun2012
Part 1 contains the video of the Warragamba Dam prophecy. We encourage you to watch it. If you read Part 2 of this series, it is possible to understand why C3 tied this prophecy with Presence Conference 2012. If you read Part 3 of this series, you’ll see Pringle explain this prophecy a bit more for clarities sake which helps us understand this prophecy better for this article. This article will provide a transcript of Phil Pringle’s Warragamba Dam prophecy. We will pull apart the prophecy and examine it’s message.
WARRAGAMBA DAM TRANSCRIPT
The video records the ‘Warragamba Dam prophecy’ as follows:
“I’ll tell you another thing. That as I was standing here tonight, God spoke to me about a really weird thing. He said, “People have said that the Warragamba Dam will never be full again”.” – Phil Pringle, C3ChurchWatch – C3 Presence 2012 Exalts Pringle As A Prophet (Makes False Prophecy): 3:32, 15/06/2008.
Pringle continued his prophecy,
“He [God] said, “Watch me. That thing is going to overflow. And as it overflows, a revival is going to come through the nation. It’s like a sign. The power of God is gonna touch this city with revival. The Spirit of God is gonna fall on this nation, is gonna fall on this city. The power of God is gonna pour down out of heaven. Rains are gonna come. A storm is coming.
Two storms are coming on the earth. One storm is the storm of revival. One storm is the storm of the glory and the power of God. Another storm is the storm of nervous anxiety, of terror and of fear. But my glory will fill my house,” says the Lord.
“If you will build my house, if you will commit yourselves and not give yourselves comfort but will build the house, I will fill this place with my glory,” says the Almighty God.
“My power will fall on this place. My Spirit will fall on this place! My power will fall on the people. I will raise up an army of preachers and teachers and church buildings. I will raise up a people who will expand this house! These seats [motions with hands to seats in C3 OF building] will be full! Those [motions with hands to seats in C3 OF building] seats will be full! Every service you come, you will queue in line to be in the house of God! There will be playing many, MANY singers, musicians and people who will pronounce the glory of God! My glory will fill this house! I will fill the earth with all of my glory,” says the Almighty God.
Come on people! It’s time to shout!” – Phil Pringle, C3ChurchWatch – C3 Presence 2012 Exalts Pringle As A Prophet (Makes False Prophecy): 4:01, 15/06/2008.
THE STORM CONUNDRUM
Pringle claimed that God said,
“Watch me. That thing is going to overflow. And as it overflows, a revival is going to come through the nation. The power of God is gonna touch this city with revival. The Spirit of God is gonna fall on this nation, is gonna fall on this city. The power of God is gonna pour down out of heaven. Rains are gonna come. A storm is coming.”
This idea that a storm is coming seems to suggest a double meaning. On one hand, there is going to be a literal storm of rain to cause the Dam to overflow, and on the other hand, there is going to be a spiritual storm which will bring revival…
Pringle seems to confirm this idea as he continues to prophesy…
“Two storms are coming on the earth. One storm is the storm of revival. One storm is the storm of the glory and the power of God.”
Ok, yep. Seems straight forward enough, now here’s where is gets confusing….
“Another storm is the storm of nervous anxiety, of terror and of fear. But my glory will fill my house,”
Err… what? A “storm of nervous anxiety, of terror and of fear”? This doesn’t seem to make any sense in light of what came before it. Based on the previous imagery, everyone is expecting the other storm to be a literal storm of rain to overflow the dam.
Chris Rosebrough from Fighting for the Faith (who reviewed this prophecy on Kong Hee’s Fleecing of the Masses), was also confused by this. Responding to Pringle’s “storm of nervous anxiety, of terror and of fear,” Rosebrough states:
“Well that’s kind of a convoluted prophecy. I mean, he said two things. And which one was does the dam again?” – Chris Rosebrough, Kong Hee’s Fleecing of the Masses, Fighting For the Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041112q.mp3, 1:16:44, 11/04/2012.
Good question. Now, do we have two or three storms? The storm of nervous anxiety makes no sense. Where is Pringle going with this? Has he simply lost his train of thought? Or is he suddenly second guessing himself and going back on his original statement that the Dam will literally overflow? After all, we heard Pringle in Part 3 point out that,
Can we claim this is a legitimate prophecy after Pringle’s performance already?
THE CATCHMENT AND THE CATCH
Pringle quickly derailed from prophesying about “the storm of nervous anxiety” and jumped straight into ‘prophesying’,
“If you will build my house, if you will commit yourselves and not give yourselves comfort but will build the house, I will fill this place with my glory,” says the Almighty God.”
Chris Rosebrough examined the prophecy and made this observation about the above ‘prophetic’ statement,
“Yeah! Now we got a condition!” – Chris Rosebrough, Kong Hee’s Fleecing of the Masses, Fighting For the Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041112q.mp3, 1:17:00, 11/04/2012.
Pringle describes the revival,
“My power will fall on this place. My Spirit will fall on this place! My power will fall on the people. I will raise up an army of preachers and teachers and church buildings. I will raise up a people who will expand this house! These seats will be full! Those seats will be full! Every service you come, you will queue in line to be in the house of God! There will be playing many, MANY singers, musicians and people who will pronounce the glory of God! My glory will fill this house! I will fill the earth with all of my glory,” says the Almighty God.”
First off, if God was speaking to Pringle, God was using Pringle’s hands to point out that revival was going to hit the C3 Church building (‘Gods house’). This revival describes that all the c3 church auditorium “seats will be full”. Not to mention that every service C3 members attend, they “will queue in line to be in the house of God”. Indeed – that would be an impressive sight to see at the C3 Oxford Falls campus.
Secondly, because this prophecy is defining what is happening at C3 church, God specifically says He will raise an army of preachers, teachers and church buildings (ever seen a building join an army?). Pringle also says that there will be “many, MANY singers, musicians” … “AND” a convoluted “people” who will “pronounce the glory of God”.
So it is clear that this prophecy will happen at C3 Church and NOT at Presence Conference 2012. But what was the condition for all this? Commitment. The big ‘if’.
If people committed themselves to C3 Church, God will bring revival.
This is legalism. This is works. This is not the Spirit of Grace speaking to Christians. This is an insult to Jesus Christ and His finished work. Only Christ is perfectly obedient. Is any man perfectly obedient and committed to being in contract with God? The bible records that God couldn’t find one person who was faithful except Jesus.
But contrary to scripture, Pringle made the following claim to c3 a few days after the dam overflowed:
“Every week we turn up… seeing your faithfulness, your strength… those who’ve come through all the stuff and being faithful to Him and being true to Him – in spite of difficult circumstances and- I’m believing that there is definitely a breakthrough day coming up ahead of us.” (read fully in Part 3)
After reading Part 3, it seems clear that once the dam floods, ‘IF’ C3 was faithful to God, revival will come. Now Pringle has told his congregation revival WILL COME because he has seen his church’s “faithfulness” and “strength”. The reason their will be queues is because the church will have every seat full. And this amazing revival (glory) “will fill this house” (C3 Church) and trigger God to “fill the earth with all of my glory”. We will examine the ‘Revival’ that came to C3 in part 4.
But after examining the prophecy, we’ve highlighted two reasons why this is false:
1. The stuff up in prophesying about a third storm (which makes no logical sense).
2. The condition that C3 must fulfill to bring revival.
In closing, Chris Rosebrough states,
“You know, even if this was a so-called fulfilled prophecy, that doesn’t make him a prophet of God. Because according to the biblical test of a prophet, number one, they have to be one hundred per cent accurate in all of their prophecies. Period. Somebody who says “Thus sayeth the Lord” and the “Thus sayeth the Lord” doesn’t, well, come about- that person is a false prophet and they’re to be rejected. ” – Chris Rosebrough, Kong Hee’s Fleecing of the Masses, Fighting For the Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041112q.mp3, 1:18:17, 11/04/2012.
Pringle has a track record of prophesying falsely:
“But there’s another test too. Even if what they prophesy comes true, the bible tells us in the book of Deuteronomy “and they have you follow after false God’s or false doctrine”, that is not a prophet of God. That’s somebody that God has sent to test.
See, just cos somebody can predict whether or not a dam’s gonna have water or not in it, doesn’t make him a prophet of God. What makes them truly a prophet in the biblical sense, is whether or not when they open their mouth, they rightly handle and proclaim God’s Word and preach Christ and Him crucified and raised again on the third day for our justification- salvation by grace alone, through faith alone by Christ’s work alone. If that’s not what the so-called prophet is preaching, he’s a false prophet.” – Chris Rosebrough, Kong Hee’s Fleecing of the Masses, Fighting For the Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041112q.mp3, 1:18:43, 11/04/2012.
That’s alright. C3ChurchWatch has a page recording every single scripture Pringle has mangled, so far.
Can Phil Pringle or anyone in C3 claim they were faithful all the way to the end for God to go, “Yep! They’ve done what I told them to do – now I’ll do my part”? In spite of his prosperity gospel, false doctrine and bible garbling, Pringle thinks so. After all that we’ve researched on Phil Pringle, why should we trust him on this prophecy and coming revival?
These articles are tackling the false Warragamba Dam prophecy made by Phil Pringle. At Presence Conference 2012, C3 aired this Warragamba Dam prophecy twice on video.
It’s worth highlighting some articles that were published in 2007 onwards.
Reporters were pointing out how Flannery’s predictions were falling flat. Two years later from 2005, the media and other sources made the following reports. In 2007, news reports recorded Sydney and parts of NSW were deluged.
Bolt’s 2007 article ridiculed Flannery on another topic saying, “And forecasters in the US, meanwhile, downgraded predictions for hurricanes this year; for the second year contradicting claims by noted alarmist Tim Flannery that warming was making hurricanes worse.”
So it is clear that in 2007, (Flannery either taken out of context or not), many predictions Flannery made were wrong. The Australian media weren’t buying his claims. The rains came down and the floods came up. Journalists, bloggers and critics had their say on Flannery, climate change and how his predictions were wrong.
So Phil Pringle got a ‘prophecy’. So what? What was the point of broadcasting this twice at Presence Conference 2012? The Dam was brimming with water on the 3rd of March. So revival should have broken out the next day at C3 Church, right?
Not so. Phil Pringle and C3 seemed to link this prophecy to being fulfilled at C3 Presence Conference 2012. (We will examine the faults with this in Part 3.)
We have reason to believe that Pringle WAS involved in the editing process. In our article ‘Who Is The Liar? Phil Pringle Or God?‘, we have a screen grab of a tweet from Pringle saying,
“Can’t believe what our media guys have put 2gether to help with my mssg this wknd”.
This reveals Pringle has a say in how things are presented before being shown at church events. Obviously Pringle would have endorsed the Warragamba Dam Prophecy video before it aired. However, he also may have been with his “media guys” in the editing process.
In a below video snippet captured on the last day of Presence Conference 2012, you will see Pringle clearly pitting the news and Flannery against himself and God – they were wrong, he was right. It seems Pringle’s understanding of this entire escapade is what C3 portrayed in the Warragamba Dam video. We shall dare ask the question in this section: Was this really a reaction to something Phil Pringle doesn’t like OR an opportunity to make Pringle look good? Before tackling this question we need to look at what was said on the last day at Presence Conference 2012.
The Piper Playing The Sniper
On the last day of Presence Conference Pringle showed the prophecy video again. A bit later, Pringle then spoke in reaction to Flannery and the media. It is worth watching Pringle’s behaviour towards Flannery here:
“You’re thinking, you’re going to die. You’re thinking it’s impossible. You’ll never gonna make it through. But He’s got higher and deeper purposes going on, so that you can be a carrier of a power from another world. And the capacity to carry that power into people’s lives means that you need to flow with Him. So that when He tells you to do something ridiculous, like to say- when you’re looking everyday at the front page of the Sydney Morning Herald and saying, “The dam is empty. The dam is empty. We’re never gonna have it again…”
Mr Flannery says, “Guys. The governments paying me a hundred and eighty thousand a year to let you know what’s gonna happen in the future. It’s never ever gonna be full again. So we need to build a one billion dollar desalination plant (which they did build and now is in moth balls), and we need to tax everybody an extra hundred bucks to actually build the thing in Sydney.”
People should come to church. [Applause] People should come to church.
We got greenhouse people predicting all kinds of stuff today. But we need some prophets who are carrying a presence on them that can see into the future. People who can work miracles and break a drought. Who can speak to seas and storms and tsunamis and say “Stop!” Men and women of enormous power.” – Phil Pringle, Presence Conference 2012, Day 4, Day Sermon, Friday, 13/04/2012.
Did Pringle Prophesy Out of Reaction?
Did Pringle hide his prejudices and his own opinions behind the supposed prophecy of God?
Pringle believed that people had said that the Warragamba Dam would never be full again. With the failed predictions in 2007, it seems safe for Pringle at best to prophesy out of reaction that the dam would be full.
He is not happy with Flannery at all. To treat Flannery the way that Pringle did in the conference was VERY rude, critical and condescending. (The irony is Pringle vehemently opposes critics and those who judge him and his ministry. So who is Pringle to now criticise and judge?)
[On a side note, we observed that Pringle used powerful imagery with his words when he referred to the desalination plant as being “in moth balls”. Over the hundred sermons we’ve examined, that turn of phrase seemed foreign to his speech, so we did a quick check to see if Pringle relied on his critics to glean this terminology. We found this:
Malcolm Holland reports in his article Professor Stuart White saying that “the desalination plant “should be put in moth balls until the next severe drought”.” Did Pringle refer to a critic’s comments in his criticism to Flannery?]
Even away from the outburst, Pringle was pitting himself against the “greenhouse people”. He clearly doesn’t like “Greenhouse people predicting all kinds of stuff.” So someone like Pringle had to come along to save the day.
We know that Phil Pringle has strong associations with the Liberal party. He’s expressed his liberal views from the pulpit before. Even in the above snipe, Pringle has shown disdain to the Liberal Party’s opposition. There is a good chance this prophecy was spoken out of irritation and reaction against his politically prejudice views against the “greenhouse people.”
Therefore, one has to ask the question: how could he make the claim he made in 2008?
“That as I was standing here tonight, God spoke to me about a really weird thing. He said, “People have said that the Warragamba Dam will never be full again”.”
The above comment in the prophecy video contradicts his outburst above. How is what God’s said “weird” when Pringle clearly was irritated continually by “the front page of the Sydney Morning Herald and saying, “The dam is empty. The dam is empty. We’re never gonna have it again…”?”
Why would God say “People have said that the Warragamba Dam will never be full again,” when it’s fairly obvious that the media DID ridicule claims that the Warragamba Dam will never be full again? C3’s own media sources they used IN THEIR VIDEO proved this for us. For Pringle to be this narrow minded only highlight’s that he really had a bee in his bonnet; a bone to pick with the political spectrum he often disdains. It seems plausible he prophesied out of reaction against those he didn’t like.
Did Pringle Pridefully Prophesy?
It is evident that Pringle uses the prophecy to elevate himself.
In the above outburst, Pringle personally alludes to himself being the reason people should come to church (he was the one who gave the prophecy). The evidence suggests above that Pringle sincerely believes he broke the drought, otherwise he wouldn’t have said, “we need some prophets who… can work miracles and break a drought”. The connection Pringle made was that ‘prophets’ like himself. can break droughts.
It’s also worth noting that at Presence Conferences and giving messages at his own C3, Pringle does teach people he is some amazing prophet, or even an ‘Elijah’. It is possible, he is glorifyng the fact in his mind that he broke the drought as Elijah did in the scriptures.
It becomes quite clear when you watch the prophecy video in his Friday session, that Pringle uses the prophecy to elevate himself and the C3 Movement. Don’t believe us? Watch the sermon here:
We will even further make the claim that this convenient prophecy helped market C3 Church to gullible Christians and churches who were enticed to the Presence 2012 event. Why? We recorded Pringle saying this in 2011.
It makes a lot of sense why Pringle wants C3 to “become more cross-denominational, not parochial about just being C3.” In pushing the video the way Pringle did at his Conference, his motive becomesmore and more questionable. One “motivation that [C3] have” is that other churches and Christians from other churches “get involved in what ]they’re] doing.” Pringle wants C3 Presence Conference to “be a blessing” to other churches alright! On the first Presence 2012 night, Pringle checked what denominations were present.
The question should then be asked: if the prophecy was of God, why is Pringle using it to elevate himself and his movement? Isn’t the Spirit of God behind the utterance of a prophecy meant to point us to Jesus (as Jesus Himself said in John 16 & as Pringle himself said in the sermon above)? Why is this spirit elevating Pringle and C3? Why is this spirit not pointing to Jesus?
The video said that on the 15th of June 2008, according to Phil, God decided to act out of character. In the Warragamba Dam prophecy video at Presence Conference 2012, (in front of thousands of Christians around Sydney (and online webcasts)), Pringle said:
“… God spoke to me about a really weird thing. He said, “People have said that the Warragamba Dam will never be full again”.” (3:32)
Who exactly was saying “the Warragamba Dam will never be full again” after the deluge the previous year? As we covered in the previous article, no media that C3 covered said straight out “the Warragamba Dam will never be full again”. Flannery was quoted by Sheehan saying, “There’s only two years’ water supply in Warragamba Dam”. So we have Flannery (and his followers?). The above media articles in 2007 put to rest the Warragamba Dam fear.
But Phil Pringle said that God came to him in June 2008. Why?
Why did God delay to give His prophetic message to Pringle? Did Jesus really miss the boat here?
To demonstrate how absurd ‘God’s’ behaviour was to Pringle, observe the timeline in this diagram. This should help explain why ‘God’ delayed his message for so long.
It is rather a convenient prophecy to make don’t you think?
Tim Flannery’s prediction failed the year before. In Part 1 in this series of articles, we demonstrated that C3 mislead people by pitting the media and Flannery against Pringle’s Warragamba Dam prophecy. But when you examine when Pringle ‘prophesied’, there was no media or Flannery to oppose him. The media didn’t believe the predictions. 2007 came about and the rain came instead. Warragamba Dam didn’t dry up. The media criticised Flannery and all moved on… Except Pringle.
As we now see, the timing of this prophecy was very convenient. Instead of prophesying in 2005 when Flannery’s ‘predictions’ were initially made, he waited until 2008, several months after the critics were already having a go at Flannery. Prophet Pringle’s a bit late to the bus don’t you think?
This delay makes the prophecy that ‘God’ gave Pringle pointless and irrelevant. Anyone could say that one day that Warragamba Dam could be full. It doesn’t take a prophet of God to say that.
But this does raise the question: Does that make the media prophetic like Pringle? Of course not. They were on the case BEFORE Pringle prophesied in the first place (see articles above) and continued to do so after he prophesied (in the following articles below).
It seems that the Warragamba Dam prophecy video made Pringle out to be the only one opposing Flannery’s predictions. But all the above articles clearly demonstrate that this is simply not the case. He seemed to speak out of reaction and pride. In light of this information, Pringle’s ‘divine’ prophecy seems almost redundant.
While writing this article, our hands were continually connecting with our foreheads rather forcefully, in utter disbelief. The amount of distortion that occurred in Phil Pringle’s three minute at the C3 Presence Conference 2012 was mind-boggling. The more we examined the video, the more stunned we became in how deceiving this video really was. This is part 1 of a series of 3 articles, addressing the brilliant con artistry of Phil Pringle and the C3 Movement. And when we say con artistry, we really mean it. If anyone can show us how any of this was accidental, we would love to know. E-mail us at firstname.lastname@example.org or feel free to discuss this article below.
C3 PITTING MEDIA & FLANNERY AGAINST PRINGLE’S PROPHECY
At the C3 Presence Conference 2012, Phil Pringle had a video made of himself about a ‘prophecy’ he spluttered on the 15th of June, 2008. In the video, C3 pitted Phil Pringle against the ‘voice of the media’ and Tim Flannery. However, the way they presented the information made it look as though Tim Flannery made the majority of the comments in support of the media. Here is a picture from the video:
We will be looking at the transcript, each snippet (from 1-5) to see if C3 Church gave a correct view of the information they presented and finally looking at a number of sources and a timeline of the prophecy that Pringle gave.
First off, C3 said this about Tim Flannery (3:00):
“In 2005, [Snippet 4B background of ‘article’ appears behind Flannery] Professor Tim Flannery predicted that [snippet 1] Sydney’s dams could be empty in as little as two years due to global warming. [Snippet 2]
Audio excerpt: “Mr Flannery has warned that Sydney will soon be facing extreme difficulties with water.”
[Snippet 3] Climate change expert Tim Flannery has sad that even the rain that falls isn’t actually going to fill [Snippet 4A] Sydney’s dams and river systems. He’s also stated that we are running out of water [Snippet 5]– and time.”
By reading the above transcript, we will demonstrate not only what is wrong with the 6 snippets but what is also untrue with the audio statements. Flannery did not say, “we are running out of water – and time”. Paul Sheehan did. Read ‘Snippet 1’ for more information.
Flannery did not say that, “even the rain that falls isn’t actually going to fill Sydney’s dams and river systems”. While he said something like it – Flannery did not specify that these dams and river system were either Sydney’s dams and river systems or specifically Warragamba Dam. What’s even worse is that this is a quote taken out of context, which will be addressed in ‘Snippet 5’. At best, C3 misrepresented Tim Flannery (Chief Commissioner of the Government’s new Climate Commission), in front of thousands of Christians. Watch the video below at 2:57 to see the ‘prophecy’.
C3 had the snippet alongside the face of Tim Flannery,
“Running out of water – and time
April 25, 2005″
This was the shock-jock title of an article by Paul Sheehan from the Sydney Morning Herald. If there was anything C3 could have used, it could have been Sheehan’s article. This article quotes Flannery saying,
“There’s only two years’ water supply in Warragamba Dam,” says Flannery, “yet Frank Sartor [NSW Minister for Energy and Utilities] is talking about the situation being stable … If the computer models are right then drought conditions will become permanent in eastern Australia.” – Paul Sheehan, Running out of water – and time, http://www.smh.com.au/news/Opinion/Running-out-of-water–and-time/2005/04/24/1114281450815.html, 25/04/2005.
They could have quoted Flannery saying the above. However, C3 didn’t. It was also Sheehan that made the claim,
“The water restrictions now in force in Sydney are never going to be lifted, except after a run of freak conditions, just as Warragamba Dam is never again going to be full unless there is a freak period of high rainfall unlikely to be sustained.” – Paul Sheehan, Running out of water – and time, http://www.smh.com.au/news/Opinion/Running-out-of-water–and-time/2005/04/24/1114281450815.html, 25/04/2005.
Observe how Sheehan used the word ‘unless’ in the above quote. This article is speculative at best. This article did NOT say that the Warragamba dam will be empty. C3 simply grabbed the shock jock title to push their agenda for ‘Prophet’ Pringle’s sake. They distorted information for their gain.
C3 also had up next to Tim Flannery the quote,
“Sydney’s dams dry in just two years.”
This may have been something Tim Flannery said. But once again lets look at the context,
“Leading environmentalist Professor Tim Flannery has warned that Australia is now entering long-term climate change, which could cause longer and more frequent droughts.
He also predicts that the ongoing drought could leave Sydney’s dams dry in just two years.
Professor Flannery, who is the director of the South Australian Museum, has told ABC TV’s Latelinethat global warming is threatening Australia’s chance of returning to a regular rainfall pattern.
“Three major phenomena are depriving Australia of its rainfall,” he said.
“One of them is just simply the shifting weather patterns as the planet warms up, so the tropics are expanding southwards and the winter rainfall zone is sort of dropping off the southern edge of the continent.”
He says the second phenomena is disturbances in the ozone layer.
“That is causing wind speeds around Antarctica to increase and, again, drawing that winter rainfall to the south,” he said.
The third phenomena, which Professor Flannery says is the most worrying, is the recurring El Nino weather pattern.
“That’s occurring as the Pacific Ocean warms up, and we’re seeing much longer El Ninos than we’ve seen before and often now back-to-back el Ninos with very little of the La Nina cycle, the flood cycle, in between,” he said.
Professor Flannery says that all adds up to back-to-back droughts, and if he had a say he would ration water use.
“If you think there’s only a 10 per cent chance that this rainfall deficit’s going to continue for another few years, you’d be pulling out all stops to preserve water,” he said.
The ABC reported Flannery supposedly saying, “ongoing drought could leave Sydney’s dams dry in just two years.” This could be ABC referring to Flannery’s out-of-context claim made on Lateline (read Snippet 3). Or it could be that ABC could be referring too Sheehan’s article. Flannery explains in this article, just like in Landline the importance of the ‘if’.
“If you think there’s only a 10 per cent chance that this rainfall deficit’s going to continue for another few years.”
“Professor Flannery says that if Sydney’s dams dry up, the city’s ground water supply would last just 10 days.”
There is nothing wrong with Flannery giving listeners a probability on drought conditions and hinging possibilities on an ‘if’. If Australia does’t behave resourcefully towards water, we naturally should expect water shortages. After examining the way the interview is conducted – the article comes across as speculative at best, especially with Flannery exploring, “the worst case scenario for Sydney”. Speculation after speculation.
At least with this article, C3 could have possibly claim one news article explored the option that the drought could be prolonged because of global warming. The article however, did not say that the Warragamba Dam would not be filled again. Global warming or not, C3 misquoted an article again. This article was not saying Warragamba Dam was never going to be full again. Once again, they distorted information for their gain. Strike 2.
C3 then published another quote, this time not from Tim Flannery but from the Herald Sun:
“In 2005, Flannery predicted Sydney’s dams could be dry in as little as two years because global warming was drying up the rains, leaving the city “facing extreme difficulties with water””
Here is the context:
“Small problem, though: after so many years of hearing Flannery’s predictions, we’re now able to see if some of the scariest have actually panned out.
“And we’re also able to see if people who bet real money on his advice have cleaned up or been cleaned out.
So before we buy a great green tax from Flannery, whose real expertise is actually in mammology, it may pay to check his record. Ready?
In 2005, Flannery predicted Sydney’s dams could be dry in as little as two years because global warming was drying up the rains, leaving the city “facing extreme difficulties with water”.
Andrew Bolt possibly misquoted Flannery from Lateline. McKew posed a hypothetical question to Flannery:
“MAXINE McKEW: Well, I’m not asking you to be alarmist, but in fact, what would you say is a plausible worst-case scenario that you and, say, other scientists in the Wentworth Group have come to agree on?
TIM FLANNERY: Well, the worst-case scenario for Sydney is that the climate that’s existed for the last seven years continues for another two years. In that case, Sydney will be facing extreme difficulties with water, and of course, large cities are the most vulnerable of all structures to water deficit because you’ve got 4 million people there who need water just for everyday survival, and in the case of Sydney, there’s very few back-up reserves. Sydney’s ground water supplies are only about 13 gigalitres, which is about 10 days’ worth of supply. So there are not many options for Sydney and, of course, without water you can’t make power, you can’t wash, you can’t clean your food, you can’t have industry. So there are some quite severe problems if the current trend continues. I really do hope that that doesn’t happen, but as I say, something will have to change in order for Sydney to get out of that predicted future.” – Landline, Flannery warns on global warming, http://www.abc.net.au/lateline/content/2005/s1389827.htm, 10/06/2005. (Accessed 29/05/2012, Emphasis mine).
Flannery answers the hypothetical. He is speculative in this piece. C3 also ‘reported’ that Flannery said, “Sydney will be facing extreme difficulties with water”. They too, like Bolt, took Flannery out of context.
As you can see, Andrew Bolt from the Herald Sun was also taken out of context by C3 Church. Bolt’s article was criticising Flannery’s ‘prediction’. C3 misquoted Andrew Bolt’s misquote. It’s also worth noting that Bolt’s article was not written between 2005 and 2007. It was written in 2011.
Bolt’s did not write to promote Flannery, rather to criticise him and his prediction. C3 took this critics criticisms against Flannery by misquoting Bolt AND gave the impression that the was written in 2005. C3 used this visual aid along with the other misquotes to mislead Christians to believe their outstanding ‘prophet’ Phil Pringle is powerful against the oppositional media.
Fancy C3 Church twisting the words of a critic to validate Pringle’s office of ‘prophet’. AGAIN, C3 distorted information for their gain. Strike 3.
We know they grabbed their quote from this blog because it is the same font, same italics, same linkage.
SNIPPET 4B (B for Background)
C3 Church not only twisted the article for their gain, they also used JustMEinT’s General blog article for the background of their portrayal of Tim Flannery and the five snippets in their video. In the below picture, you can see the segment of text C3 used for the background of their video on Pringle’s Warragamba Dam prophecy. The body of text that makes up the background is the following:
“He was chosen for this $3,000 a week (3 days a week) job for his expertise, his communication skills, and his track record in the competitive business of sounding alarms about the dire consequences of our “carbon polluting” ways. His alarms, he claims, are based on an anthropogenic global warming theory that has been confirmed by an overwhelming consensus of scientists to be ninety per cent probable – the implication being that there is only one chance in ten of him being wrong.
But how can his teachings and preaching ever be tested? Most of his apocalyptic prophesies are projected far enough into the future for him to be well and truly beyond accountability when they are proved right or wrong.
When it came to Australia’s rainfall, however, Flannery threw caution to the wind and declared that the apocalypse is now.
Compare the above text from the critics blog to the background of C3’s expose of Flannery and the media.
To make matters worse, the hyperlink on the snippet C3 took, takes you to Andrew Bolt’s article, ‘An excuse from Flannery and his dud prediction’, (written on the 01/03/2012). The link on the snippet takes you to Bolt’s article that is ridiculing Flannery. Strike 3 and 4.
This blog article was also published on the 2nd of March, 2012. This article was NOT written between 2005-2007. This contradicts the C3 report that Flannery (and others?) in 2005, were saying that the Warragamba Dam will never be full again. This article is NOT saying that the Dam will be empty. It is ridiculing Tim Flannery. They visually misrepresented the quote and the slab of text that made up the background.
C3 has no excuse for their distortion and misrepresentation of the facts. They are not afraid to mock, criticise and condemn bloggers and critics. So why are they now stooping lower then those they condemn, twisting their words and articles to elevate the prophetic status of their leader, Phil Pringle? AGAIN, C3 distorted information for their gain.
Who knew C3 Church would twist the words of a blogger and the bloggers article to validate Pringle’s office of ‘prophet’? Strike 5.
“even the rain that falls isn’t actually going to fill our dams and our river systems…”
This is a quote from statement C3 used was taken from the ABC show Landline. The transcript reads:
“SALLY SARA: What will it mean for Australian farmers if the predictions of climate change are correct and little is done to stop it? What will that mean for a farmer?
PROFESSOR TIM FLANNERY: We’re already seeing the initial impacts and they include a decline in the winter rainfall zone across southern Australia, which is clearly an impact of climate change, but also a decrease in run-off. Although we’re getting say a 20 per cent decrease in rainfall in some areas of Australia, that’s translating to a 60 per cent decrease in the run-off into the dams and rivers. That’s because the soil is warmer because of global warming and the plants are under more stress and therefore using more moisture. So even the rain that falls isn’t actually going to fill our dams and our river systems, and that’s a real worry for the people in the bush. If that trend continues then I think we’re going to have serious problems, particularly for irrigation.” – Sally Sara, Landline, Interview with Professor Tim Flannery, http://www.abc.net.au/landline/content/2006/s1844398.htm, First published 11/02/2007. (Emphasis added. Accessed 20/04/2012)
An article that C3 could have used could have been the following:
Instead, we are given distortion after distortion for their gain. Strike 6.
Visual imagery is powerful when handled either correctly or incorrectly. How C3 and Pringle presented the information was deviant at best. Each media snippet was NOT saying (as the video suggested), that the Warragamba dam will never be full again.
Could this be an accident? If it was an accident somehow, C3 and Phil Pringle failed spectacularly. If anyone can prove this was an accident, we would be very keen to hear your take on this. It’s hard to fathom this was an accident at all. It seems more than reasonable to say this was deliberate. (Would C3 honestly think someone would record this video, go through their claims individually with all the hype going on and critically examine the snippets presented?)
We think it is personally safe to say that Phil Pringle and the C3 Movement went out of their way to handle these articles FALSELY to exalt the prophetic office of Phil Pringle.
They disregarded the dates these articles were published and took material out of context for convenience-sake to elevate Pringle before other churches. They wanted to parade their prophet. Instead – they paraded an amazing series of distortions before other church denominations on Presence Conference 2012 open night. But it get’s worse (and more absurd). Get ready for part 2.
This article will look at the Presence Conference 2012 speaker line-up at the Presence Conference website (Phil Pringle, Steven Furtick, Kong Hee, John Bevere). Consider this article as a platter of resources, that can allow people to look at the speakers themselves.
We regret writing so harshly on the speakers. However, the purpose of this article is to warn Christians in love about these men and the dangers of the Presence Conference 2012. Unfortunately, every invited speaker has revealed they are both heretical and dishonest to say the least.
Pringle says on his Presence Conference website,
“BE CLEANSED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT AND LET A POWER COME UPON YOU THAT WILL CHANGE THIS WORLD”
You will never forget a Presence Conference with Phil Pringle. His sessions on miracles, anointing, vision and freedom are life changing. Phil is the author of 10 books, a speaker, television host, successful artist and President of C3 Global, an international network of nearly 400 churches. He is the Senior Minister of one of Australia’s fastest growing churches, C3 Church and he has spent over 30 years pastoring and equiping hundreds of ministers to plant churches around the world. Phil has seen powerful moves of God and the glory of God filling the atmosphere.
We have made it clear in the past that Phil Pringle is a prosperity preacher and connected to the heretic Kenneth Copeland.
Just like famous heretics Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Hagin, Jess Duplantis, Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland (ministers Pringle likes to be associated with), Pringle also teaches that Jesus went to hell and suggests that Jesus lost his divinity on the cross.
Pringle also manipulates church statistics and words to convince people he is a legitimate Christian minister and to convince Christians to give him money. He’s also convinced people he has churches that aren’t even part of C3 yet and worse – don’t even exist.
He’s made claims that he oversees 1,200 C3 churches or around 500 C3 churches. His website still says he runs 258 churches or oversees around 300. The above blurb says he now has 400 churches. Is Phil Pringle lying to convince anyone to come to his Presence 2012 Conference? You decide.
… and have observed Pringle using the church as a business tool to sell his paintings and merchandise (more will be written about this). He also reveals his motivation to get other Christians and their churches to join his movement.
One has to wonder not only what he will preach on this year but what type of speakers he has invited to his conference this year.
The C3 Website has a photo of Steven Furtick with a quote next to his face. How can Furtick supposedly state “There is a lost, hurting, broken dying, desperate, sorry world without Christ”, when he himself abuses Christians, sensors the gospel and elevates himself to some type of messianic figure?
If Steve Furtick is indeed saying this, he needs to explain his track record of bad behaviour and appalling teaching. Why does he openly condemn Christians who want to know Jesus? Why did he sensor the gospel at his 2012 Code Orange Revival?
If Christ is so important, then why does he say the church is the answer and not Christ? If the church is the answer, then why does he say that his church is not for people who want to know Jesus? Why was he hostile against the gospel at his revival by sensoring it? If Christ is important at all, why did Furtick cheer Perry Noble on for promoting him as Messiah?
It’s disturbing that Phil Pringle is STILL endorsing Steve Furtick to give him the platform to thousands of Australian Christians. Long-term critic of Steve Furtick, Chris Rosebrough has labeled Steve Furtick and Elevation Church a cult.
After examining the articles that C3ChurchWtach have written, it becomes quite apparent that Furtick is not telling the truth. If you examine the evidence that Rosebrough puts before you, it’s easy to come to the same conclusion – Steve Furtick is not a truthful minister. In fact, it is safe to say that Steven Furtick is creating a
It should be made known that Kong Hee has been exposed in his country as an alleged plagiarist. This was the blog that exposed Kong Hee,
As ‘Transitioning’ points out, Kong Hee’s publisher has many loopholes in their explanation and says Kong Hee’s “alleged plagiarism issue is no big deal now compared to the CAD probe into CHC’s financial affairs”. This latter issue still seems to be ongoing, Phil Pringle helping in KH’s effort to support his ministry.
In spite of all this, the people Kong Hee endorses are issues themselves (Steve Munsey, John Avanzini, Yonngi Cho, etc).
His use of scripture in his sermons are manipulative and misleading at best, sprinkled with heresy, pagan philosophies and vain imaginings. Kong Hee has proven to be a faithful disciple under Pringle’s prophetic direction and is just as ruthless exploiting those in his church that are unemployed like Pringle.
With this background knowledge, why is Phil Pringle inviting the cult-like leader Kong Hee to speak at this years Presence Conference? He is not faithful to scripture, faithful to the church, faithful to the poor or faithful to the community. Hee is continually misrepresenting Jesus for worldly reasons.
This brings up an important issue regarding Hee’s wife. Kong Hee loves his wife Sun Hee (and fellow pastor at his church).
After much deliberation on what to write about Sun Hee we’ve finally concluded that you can decide for yourself by watching her music video ‘China Wine’. (She is the female singer of this video clip (00:20).)
(Edit 18/04/2012: Kong Hee justified his wife’s role and played down the intelligence of pastors who criticised them both:
“I think the struggle many pastors have is the difficulty to separate her association with me (as a pastor’ wife) and her career as a singer. I agree that if she is a “pastor” or “preacher,” perhaps the video would have been inappropriate. But Sun is not a pastor…
Some [Pastors] said she was promoting free sex and immorality. But any intelligent, objective viewer would know that the whole drama is not about sex; if anything, it portrays the reality of a fallen secular world…”
After examining Kong Hee, his wife and his controversial ministry, one must ask: What kind of message will Kong Hee bring to Presence Conference?
C3 seems to suggest that Bevere said, “We need men and women who will speak the word of his grace. The word of his power and bring change.” They also mention his books,
“(The Bait of Satan, Drawing Near, Driven by Eternity, The Fear of the Lord and others)”
It’s odd they didn’t mention this ‘grace’ preachers book, “Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing” (2007). The book title says it all; how can you attract (earn) the favor (grace) of God on your life? It’s odd he says we need men and women who “speak the word of his grace” but promotes the exact opposite in his mentioned book.
We’ve discussed Bevere’s doctrine of tithing and his belief that if you submit to leaders like himself, God will make you rich and receive double portions of God’s Spirit. Read it here:
While it is good to biblically submit to Godly authorities, Bevere confuses it and delivers a burden-binding ‘gospel’ message. While his book seems to promote a lot of truth, there are concerns that should be bought to light on his false gospel of salvation-by-submission.
To preach the message of the gospel is the central mission of the church for all people to hear and know about Christ crucified. If anything contrary is added to the gospel or any truth taken away from it, then one must question the legitimate authority of that teacher, prophet or shepherd.
But we can safely say the hidden gnostic principle on ‘honor’, (John Bevere says he has discovered), has made him deviate from the central gospel of salvation.
“I didn’t understand the honor principle. I was in the process of learning. Now I want everyone to know!” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 37.
To make matters worse, Bevere reveals he is a word of faith teacher by stating On page 102,
“Simply put, the promises of God are not automatic; they must be acquired by faith.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 102.
What else are we meant to gain if Christ has already “blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing” (Eph 1:3)? What else are we to acquire if we are told to “count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus” (Phil 3:8). What are we to gain that we haven’t gained already?
We will see Bevere is promoting himself, his authority and his gospel of works-by-faith. Paul, in imitating Christ’s authoritative nature (Philippians 2:5-11), uses his Godly apostolic authority in this way towards the Thessalonians (emphasis mine).
“… Nor did we seek glory from men, either from you or from others, even though as apostles of Christ we might have asserted our authority” Thes 2:6
And as Jesus said (our highest authority),
“Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me.” John 8:54
A quick reading of John Bevere’s book gives a strong impression that Bevere is lacking in humility and loves to be recognised by the world (pg. 34-35, 36, 45). He’s bold enough to claim,
“I learned that day it had nothing to do with me but how I am received as one sent by God. The prisoners valued, honored, esteemed me. The church members said with their body language, “We’ve heard it all. We’ve heard it all. We’ve heard many guest ministers; what do you have to say that’s any different?” The vast difference of results stemmed from one word-honor.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 38.
So Bevere likes to be honored. Like this?
“Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes, and love respectful greetings in the market places, and chief seats in the synagogues and places of honor at banquets,” Luke 20:46
His message through out the book is that God CANNOT bless or favour you unless you earn it through submitting to leaders like himself. Convinced about his faith-by-works message, Bevere shows hostility to Christians who do not submit to church leaders. He attacks biblical reason by convincing Christians that they,”are a people trying to understand Kingdom principles with a democratic mindset.” (Pg. 44.) In saying that the democratic mindset is the problem, he leads us to believe that the honor principle, (which he believes is the key kingdom principle), is the solution to earning God’s grace and blessing. (That’s what this whole book is about.)
“The kingdom of God is not a democracy. So if we relate to God with a democratic mindset we will not connect with Him. We will be without the protection of His authority and can be easily misled. Could this be why Jesus said so many in our generation would be deceived?” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 44.
He is saying that the kingdom of God is not characterised by equality. Furthermore, if we relate to God with a mindset of being equal with one another or approach the kingdom of God with a democratic mindset, Bevere says we cannot connect with God. What is the alternative of being democratic that Bevere is insinuating? Dictatorship? Thou-shalt-not-question-me?
Has Bevere not read Paul say the following?
“On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other.” 1Corinthians 12:22-25
Bevere is also insinuating that Jesus says that many will be deceived by this faulty democratic thinking in regards to the kingdom of God.
No John. People become deceived by following false teachers, leaders and self-proclaiming prophets (pg. 37) like yourself with your false gospel of works. The gospel saves the simpleton. And Christ is the protector of His disciples (John 17:12) and the guardian and true shepherd of His sheep (Psalm 23, John 10). Those who don’t want Jesus chase after false ministers like yourself.
Observe how prejudice and hostile Bevere gets towards Christians who prefer house churches,
“This Western mind-set is the cause for most church splits in America, and why so many people are resorting to home churches. These professing believers do not want to be under the authority established by Jesus Christ Himself.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 45.
Professing believers? Why is he implying they are not under the authority and lordship of Jesus Himself, or even saved? Why is he alluding to them being the ones causing division? Is Bevere not acting as judge concerning trivial things (Colossians 2).
Only those who do no Only those peddling a false gospel with false doctrines based on the traditions of men are causing division. Bevere claims “They lack true New Testament government and accountability” (pg. 45). New Testament government? Like a dictatorship? After all, he’s not teaching about a kingdom based on 1 Corinthians 12. His attack on Christians continue,
“… you find many believers who have been hurt or offended and are therefore disillusioned with church structure. They’ve resorted to home churches in order to live without accountability.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 45.
The proof of his false teaching is constant throughout his book, deviating from scripture and replacing words in scripture with the word ‘honor’ to support the teachings in his book. (eg. replacing words like blessing, time, praise, esteem, submit with honor). This is not how you treat the teachings of God. This ‘man of grace’ starts attacking the gospel of grace. Bevere says,
“There are three benefits for honoring these [abusive] leaders. First, if treated unfairly, our obedience to submit puts our case in the hands of God who will judge justly (see Pet. 2:21-23). If we take matters into our own hands, God steps back and we are on our own, a miserable place to be.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 58.
What does he mean if we react to bad leadership that “God steps back and we are on our own”? What do we do if we are obedient to bad leadership? Why should we be called to submit to bad leadership? Bevere explains,
“Why are we called to do this? To position ourselves to receive a blessing (reward). So when you are mistreated, especially by someone in authority, you can get very excited because you are being set up for a reward.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 58.
Once again, aren’t we already blessed with every spiritual blessing in Christ? If we aren’t seeking this blessing in submission, does that mean we are not saved? Is Bevere implying we can lose our salvation since he blurs the lines, scriptures, definitions and contexts? If anyone critiques Bevere or has issues with him speaking at Presence Conference (or any leader speaking at the event), would he even consider them Christian or saved? Bevere makes this claim,
“If you are truly born of the Spirit of God, you will recognize and esteem authority. In fact, show me a person who has no regard for authority and I will show you a person who is not a child of God. It doesn’t matter if he’s prayed the sinner’s prayer and goes to church weekly. He who has no honor in his heart is not saved.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 46.
We can conclude that people who suffer from Oppositional Defiance Disorder cannot ever be saved according to Bevere. However we can agree with Bevere on this.
“There is only one time-I repeat, one time-the bible tells us not to obey an authority; and that is when authority tells us to sin (do something contrary to the written Word of God.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 46.
The issue now is who’s authority we need to submit too; Bevere’s authority or God’s authority? Is Bevere confused or is he enticing us to sin by following a gospel contrary to the one the Apostles preached? The bible teaches us that Satan is the god of this age and even he has authority. Wouldn’t that make those who come under his authority false prophets? False teachers? Perverters of God’s Word? Many will claim to come with an authority and a message of authority. But who is teaching the true gospel of Jesus Christ? The point we’re trying to make is the same point Paul makes.
“… even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!” Galatians 1:8-9
To imply Bevere wants to see “men and women who will speak the word of his grace” while promoting a different gospel that damns is clearly hypocritical as his ‘honour principle’ is a different gospel (different message). It was Paul that placed an anathema on those who preached a false gospel like the works-based gospel of the false teachers back in the Galatian province. We suggest any reader takes Bevere’s advice and “not… obey [Bevere’s] authority.” How can his authority cannot be from God if Bevere is not honestly representing the God of the bible?
Just like Phil Pringle, Steven Furtick and Kong Hee, John Bevere is another dishonest minister speaking into the lives of thousands of Christians at Phil Pringle’s Presence Conference 2012.
Buying The Blessings of God’s Grace By Obeying Bevere’s Spiritual Laws
John Bevere is speaking at Phil Pringle’s 2012 Presence Conference. This article will look at John Bevere and a sample of his teaching. The last half of this article is an excerpt from his book, ‘Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing’, chapter 11, ‘Double Honour’. The first half is examining the scriptures he used in the excerpt of the above mentioned book.
If the title of his book is not concerning enough, Bevere writes how one can earn God’s favor and blessing by giving people like himself honor, luxury and money. He mishandled every passage in this excerpt. He reads his ‘honor principle’ into every scripture, mangling the word of God in the process.
The Apostle Paul says,
“… did I commit a sin in humbling myself so that you might be exalted, because I preached the gospel of God to you without charge? I robbed other churches by taking wages fromthem to serve you; and when I was present with you and was in need, I was not a burden to anyone. . . But what I am doing I will continue to do, so that I may cut off opportunity from those who desire an opportunity to be regarded just as we are in the matter about which they are boasting. For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ.” – Apostle Paul, 2 Corinthians 11:7-9, 12-13 (emphasis mine)
1. John Bevere’s Gnostic Principle Redefines Scripture
Bevere uses Matt 10:40 to imply that if you receive John Bevere you are receiving Jesus. And how we treat John Bevere is we will be treating Jesus and treat our Father in heaven [pg. 141]. Bevere is elevating himself to be equal in ministry and teaching with the Apostles of Jesus. It’s odd that the Apostles never taught Bevere’s ‘honor principle’ anywhere in scripture – they seemed to focus their message on Jesus.
Bevere tells us to apply his honor principle to the Old Testament scripture of 1 Sam. 2:30. However he is twisting the words of God spoken by a prophet out of context that was condemning Eli saying, “Why do you kick at My sacrifice and at My offering which I have commanded in My dwelling, and honor your sons above Me, by making yourselves fat with the choicest of every offering of My people Israel”. Bevere in his book is not focusing on Jesus’ sacrifice and offering, which is commanded to be preached in the church. In his book, Bevere actually alludes to getting fat off people’s offerings for luxury and personal reasons (for ministry reasons of course!). Back to the verse Bevere uses, we can only live under the truth of the cross and uphold that. We will always be falling short if we ever think we can honor the Lord faithfully. That’s what Jesus did on our behalf: honor the Lord perfectly to death. Now we live in the fulness of every spiritual blessing in Christ. (Eph 1:3.)
Bevere uses three different translations for us to ‘understand’ Proverbs 3:9 (ASV, AMP, CEV). He would have us read the passage as, “Honor the LORD by giving [John Bevere] your money”. (Read the context below.)
Bevere twists Paul’s words, abandoning the context of 1Cor 9:11,14. Bevere’s book is teaching Christians about the honor principle so that ministers like himself can gain from the gospel. He is not preaching the gospel, in fact – watering it down with his made-up principle. Paul is asking for the church to reap just a little because of the work he has done in the churches of Corinth (a very rich city). He didn’t wish to do so because he wants to show that his motive was to receive man’s money, power, influence, fame, etc. He didn’t ask for money so that none could accuse him and the gospel he preached was for filthy lucre’s sake. I purposely put no burden on people to give, as he says in vs 17-18, “If I preach voluntarily, I have a reward; if not voluntarily, I am simply discharging the trust committed to me. What then is my reward? Just this: that in preaching the gospel I may offer it free of charge, and so not make full use of my rights as a preacher of the gospel.” Bevere is doing the opposite to Paul and is expecting to be honored financially as one sent by God.
Bevere uses Philippians 4:15-16 (jumps 17) and vs 18. It’s a convenient verse for him to jump as he states he is unhappy when a church doesn’t offer him luxury or proper honour. Vs 17 has Paul say, “Not that I desire your gifts; what I desire is that more be credited to your account”. Gils commentary observes, “he [Paul] was fully satisfied and highly contented with what he had; he was not like the false teachers, that made merchandise of men; he sought not theirs, but them”. Considering that Paul would be happy sleeping in a car or a luxurious hotel, Bevere would only expect the ‘honor principle’ would work if a church supplied with luxuries so God could bless the church.
John Bevere uses Deut. 26:12 and Gal. 2:10 to suggest that his ‘honor principle’ is somehow imbedded in these verses and that money should be showered on ministers like Bevere so that people can be blessed back. These scriptures in context do not support his claims.
Bevere teaches that Elijah and the widow lived by his newly discovered ‘honor principle’ in 1 Kings 17, which is not true. Bevere misuses Malachi 3:8,10 as most prosperity preachers like himself do. He reads things into scripture and adds to scripture what isn’t there (Proverbs 3:9-10).
Bevere implies you can “buy the blessings of God” as “it is a spiritual principle God has weaved into His grace” using 2 Cor. 8:1-3. Paul is praising the Macedonians as being used BY the grace of God to not bless Paul’s own personal needs (8:20-21). It is by God’s grace he is using the Macedonians to help the church in Jerusalem- Paul and others being the instruments used to accomplish the collection for this cause.
2. Excerpt From John Bevere’s Book
Here is the excerpt from John Bevere’s book ‘Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing’.
In Our Meetings
In traveling and ministering in churches around the world, I’ve observed the results of ministry are vastly different in those that take care of our team with exceptional hospitality, and those who treat us as common travelers.
I’ve gone to places where I wondered why they asked me to come. They put us in run-down hotels or outside-entrance hotels; they have no bottled water or snacks in the room, and no service available. I’m greeted in the pastor’s office not with warmth and gratefulness for coming, but with more of an attitude of: I’m expecting this out of you. I’ve been treated by a few with the attitude [pg 138] of, “What we are doing here is important and you’re privileged to speak here.”
When I’m introduced the people sit and stare at me with a disinterested look. You can almost hear their thoughts: We’ve heard them all, what do you have that is any different? As I speak I feel as if I am on trial.
I come out of these meetings feeling worn out. I’ve spiritually plowed through the resistance the entire time, rather than being drawn from hungry hearts. Then the pastor will hand me an offering check so small that if his church received this amount every week they could not survive. I’m happy to report this doesn’t happen frequently.
I recall one specific incident: I was asked to speak at a conference with another minister for an entire week. The pastor shared that they had taken in over two hundred and fifty thousand dollars for the meetings. I was very happy for them. However, when I left they handed me a six-hundred-dollar check for our ministry. Barely a tip, and not a good one either; just 10 percent would have been twenty-five thousand. So it was a little more than two-tenths of a percent (that’s 0.2 percent).
I’ve learned it doesn’t affect our ministry, because God always gets us what we need through some other avenue. Every time in the past when churches have tipped us in this manner (I guess I really can’t describe that as a tip, because it is far below tipping standards) we get a huge gift in the mail the same week from an individual or we’ll go to the next church and they’ll give us an enormous offering. I love it, because it is as if God is saying to us, “I know.”
I’ve seen the faithfulness of God to supply for us, and I’ve never lost and sleep over it. My grief is for those who gave the crumbs; they’ve missed out on an opportunity to receive a great reward by honoring the one Jesus sent them.
On the flip side I’ve gone to meetings where from the moment I [pg. 139] was picked up at the airport until the time I was dropped off again, I was met with excitement and treated with extreme kindness and genuine hospitality.
I arrive in my hotel room and am welcomed with a large basket of fruit, drinks, and snacks that I could feed on for a week. The church checked with our office for what types of foods I like to snack on. I’ve even arrived to find presents awaiting me in my hotel room, such as a candle, nice pen, shirt, or cologne. They put me in the nicest hotels in the area and make sure I have room service and other amenities that make living on the road more like home. Not only do they do this for me, but for my traveling assistants as well.
When I step in the pulpits I’m greeted with the people standing and giving a loud applause. They are thankful to God for sending them one of His messengers, and are excitedly anticipating hearing the Word of God. They listen to the Word attentively; no one moves or talks during the service, because they don’t want to miss one point. They welcome the presence of God during ministry time, and finally rush our resource tables to glean more from the books and curriculums.
These churches will talk with our office or me months and even years later and make comments like, “We turned the corner when you came,” or “Our staff and church has never been the same. It was as if we went up to another level.” I sometimes laugh inside, because maybe just the week prior I went to a church that treated us as common travelers. I ministered on the same subject and came with the same purpose, but the results were very small, and no comments were made after I left. It again shows it has nothing to do with me, but how I’m received.
Jesus says, “He who receives you receives Me, and he who receives Me receives Him who sent Me.” How would you want Jesus cared for if He was the pastor of your church, or if He visited your church to minister on a certain weekend? The fact is, the way we [pg. 140] treat those He sends us is exactly how we treat Him, and it is exactly how we treat the Father.
Honor The Lord
Let’s look again at the honor principle. God says, “Those who honor Me I will honor, and those who despise Me shall be lightly esteemed” (1 Sam. 2:30).
The scripture needs to be etched in our souls. Those who honor God, He honors in return. Say it loud: “If I honor God, He will honor me.” Recite it over and over, ponder it, and let it sink deep within your heart. To honor God is to attract His honor toward you. It’s an amazing reality! Let’s take this truth further; we read,
“Honor the LORD with your possessions, and with the firstfruits of all your increase.” – Prov. 3:9
We are told to honor God with our possessions. The Amplified Bible reads, “Honor the Lord with your capital and sufficiency [from righteous labors] and with the firstfruits of all your income.” The CEV reads, “Honor the LORD by giving him your money.” One way we honor God is by giving Him our money. My question is, how can we give Him money? He doesn’t use our currency. The answer is simple-in giving it to the one He sends you.
If you study tithes and offerings carefully throughout the Bible you’ll find they are given for three main purposes. The first is to provide for the appointed servants who minister to us, and as we saw clearly earlier in this chapter, they are worthy of “double pay.” Secondly, to provide for the minister’s needs to do the work of the ministry; and third, so that they can help the poor, the widows, the orphans and the outsiders.
I’d like to give you just one of the many scriptures relating to [pg. 141] each purpose. The first is seen in Paul’s words to the Corinthians: “If we have sown spiritual things for you, is it a great thing if we reap your material things? . . . Even so the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should live from the gospel” (1 Cor. 9:11, 14).
The NLT reads as follows: “The Lord gave orders that those who preach the Good News should be supported by those who benefit from it.” This principle is also seen in the Old Testament. The priests’ and Levites’ inheritances were to come from the tithes of the people. They were not given land to work as the other tribes.
The second point is seen in Paul’s words to the Philippian church:
And you Philippians yourselves well know that in the early days of the Gospel ministry, when I left Macedonia, no church (assembly) entered into partnership with me and opened up [a debit and credit] account in giving and receiving except you only. For even in Thessalonica you sent [me contributions] for my needs, not only once but a second time. . . . But I have [your full payment] and more; I have everything I need and am amply supplied, now that I have received from Epaphroditus the gifts you sent me. [They are the] odor of an offering and sacrifice which God welcomes and in which He delights. – Philippians 4:15-16, 18 (AMP)
You can see their financial gifts enabled Paul to accomplish the work to which he was called. Simply put, it takes money to conduct a public ministry. In his own words, Paul was “amply supplied.” Through giving they entered into a partnership with him in reaching others.
As for the third point, in the Old Testament God instructed that the tithe was to be given to the Levite (minister), stranger, fatherless, [pg. 142] and widow (see Deut. 26:12). In the New Testament the leaders all agreed: “They desired only that we should remember the poor, the very thing which I also was eager to do” (Gal. 2:10).
The poor would include the stranger, orphan, and widow. By giving to ministers, we can help those in need we may never meet.
As already stated, we honor God with our finances by giving to those He’s selected for ministry. So must ask, how many today dishonor God by withholding more than they should from the work of the ministry? Many don’t tithe, and many don’t give offerings to the laborers who have sown spiritual truths into their lives. They complain of hearing ministers ask for money, and make statements such as, “Why can’t they just preach to me without talking about offerings? Things have not gone well for me lately.” Could this be why they are struggling? They’ve not put God’s work first? So in essence they honor themselves more than they honor God [Haggai 1:5-9 (NLT)] . . . [pg. 143]
How clear can it be? Suppose some of the people we admire in Scripture would have had the attitude many have today in regard to ministers talking about money in hard times. There were many widows who died in the days of Elijah during the great famine. However, one lived because of the honor principle. She and her son had only enough flour and oil to make a final meal; then they would both die. However, the prophet told her to make him a cake first. Wow, would he have gotten persecuted today, both in churches and by the media. Many would criticize, “How could you take anything from a poor woman who is about to suffer starvation? You should give it to her first.” However, the Word of the Lord instructed the prophet to tell her to put God first by feeding his servant; if she would honor him in this way, God would honor her. She did, and God did what He promised; her flour and oil never ran out the entire duration of the drought (see 1 Kings 17).
When we withhold the tithe or offerings from those God sends us, we harm only ourselves because we dishonor the Lord. God Himself speaks through the prophet:
“Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed Me! But you say, ‘In what way have we robbed You? In tithes and offerings.” -Mal. 3:8
If I had to make a choice, I would rather rob a bank than God Himself. Why? Because I fear God more than man. I’m so glad I don’t have to choose; I would never want to rob either. However, God says, “You have robbed Me!” Notice He didn’t say, “You’ve robbed My ministers!” No, we rob God by not tithing and giving offerings to His servants, because to withhold from the servants He sends us is to dishonor Him. Hear what He continues to say: “‘Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be food in My house, and try Me now in this,’ says the LORD of hosts, ‘If I will not open for you [pg. 144] the twindows of heaven and pour out for you such blessing that there will not be room enough to receive it,” (v.10).
Notice God Himself states that the blessing of tithing would be so great there will “not be room enough to receive it.” So in essence, the blessing will be an uncontainable commodity. For years I’ve heard ministers say that God will bless our finances and possessions to such a degree we will not have room enough to receive it. I’d like to contend that point. Money is a containable commodity. If I had all the money in the world I could contain it. So what is God speaking of when He states we will not be able to contain the reward of giving? The answer is found in Proverbs:
“Honor the Lord with your possessions (these are your gifts to ministers or offerings to ministries), and with the firstfruits of all your increase (this is your tithe); so your barns will be filled with plenty, and your vats will overflow with new wine.” – 3:9-10 (words in parentheses and italics are mine)
Your barns represent your storage places. That would be your checkbook, closets, gas tanks, garage, etc. This is where we store our containable commodities. So it is true, He blesses our finances. However, what is the blessing which we will not have room to receive? The answer is found as we continue to read: “your vats will overflow with new wine.” A vat is a large container used to store wine. Notice in this scripture, this is what cannot contain the blessing of God, for He states they will overflow. What does new wine represent? In the Bible new wine represents the fresh presence of the Holy Spirit. God is saying when you honor Him, by giving to church leaders-giving to their churches or ministries, you will receive the full reward of the overflow of His presence! That is the most exciting promise of all.
Time and time again, I’ve witnessed those who are generous in [pg. 145] financially honoring their spiritual leaders are those who are blessed materially, and have enough to do every good work that comes before them. But it goes further. What I’ve also observed is they walk in an overflow of God’s presence. Why should this surprise us-it’s God’s promise? Understanding this truth answered my question of why I couldn’t sense a strong presence of God in meetings where honor was withheld-where the pastor was struggling, or where I’m treated like a common traveler. The people were not generous. However, once they became liberal and continued to do so, the presence of God was so much stronger in their church.
If you take the truths of this chapter and read the entire Bible, you’ll notice whenever the people of God richly gave, miracles, freedom, salvations, God’s presence, and prosperity would abound. We cannot buy the blessings of God; however, it is a spiritual principle God has weaved into His grace. Hear what Paul said of the Macedonian believers: “And now, brothers, we want you to know about the grace that God has given the Macedonian churches. Out of the most severe trial, their overflowing joy and their extreme poverty welled up in rich generosity. For I testify that they gave as much as they were able, and even beyond their ability” (2Cor. 8:1-3, NIV).
Paul attributed their generosity as a direct result of the grace of God. God’s grace gave them the capacity to go “beyond their ability.” Just as we can’t buy grace, we also can’t buy favor, but we certainly can position ourselves to receive it. By giving double financial honor to those who bring the Word of God to us, we position ourselves to be honored by God; included in that honor is grace and favor-it’s a spiritual law.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 138-146.