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Tag Archives: c3 2020 vision

Prophet Pringle’s God-Given 2020 Vision Lie (Part 5) Which C3 leader do you believe?

21 Wednesday Jan 2015

Posted by Nailed Truth in Pringle's Influences, Pringle's Laws, Pringle's Methods

≈ 4 Comments

Tags

2020 Vision, 2020 Vision lie, c3, c3 2020 vision, Christian A Schwarz, Gordon Moore, lie, lies, Natural Church Development, NCD Conference, Phil Pringle, Pringle, prophet, Prophet Phil Pringle, Schwarz, Vision lie

“I’ve never found that God asks us to do something that is within our means or within our resources. And so the Vision that we have is always going to be bigger than we currently are. They always call for faith and that’s why it’s so exciting because God calls us to do things that are beyond our abilities. So we’re relying on him. and his power to make it happen.”

Source: Phil Pringle, C3 Church Culture Video, Vimeo, http://vimeo.com/61320694, 07/03/2013 at 10:56 PM.

If you are a C3 member and were told that your pastor, Phil Pringle, has been constantly lying to you about receiving direct visions and instructions from God just so he can manipulate you, what would you think? Would you shrug it off and keep attending C3? Would you feel disgusted that Phil Pringle abused your trust in him as a leader? Would you feel unclean that you are serving a man who is using your God to manipulate you for his own selfish ends?

LIES, LIES AND MORE LIES FROM C3 LEADERSHIP

Let’s look at the facts.  For years Phil Pringle has been hell-bent on trying to deceive his congregation into believing that God gave him his 2020 Vision. Remember when Phil Pringle said, “God has given us a strategy and as we follow that pathway, we will find ourselves expanding right around the world?”.

The fact is that Phil Pringle lied.

God did not give Phil Pringle the 2020 Vision, nor did God give Phil Pringle and his leadership team a “strategy” to fulfill his 2020 Vision.

Christian Schwarz helped Pringle and his staff formulate the 2020 Vision and various strategies to see this come to pass. If C3 want to lay claim that God used the NCD to give Pringle the God-given 2020 Vision, then Pringle and C3 leadership still lied by omission. Why portray Phil Pringle in all their propaganda as a prophet receiving a timely vision from God to plant 1000 churches by the year 2020?

CHRISTAN A. SCHWARZ AND NATURAL CHURCH DEVELOPMENT?

The truth is that Christian Schwarz, the operations manager of the Natural Church Development Organization, helped Pringle and his staff formulate the 2020 Vision as well as the various strategies to see this Vision come to pass.  A few years ago Schwarz interviewed Pringle’s close friend, Gordon Moore. Moore is the man who is speaking as a representative of the C3 Church movement in the video below. In this interview Gordon discloses where the 2020 Vision originally came from as well as the source of their  church growth strategies. The proof that Pringle’s “God Given 2020 Vision,” as well as the strategies to carry it out, did not come from God is in the following statement from Gordon:

“We have formulated as a result of all of this [NCD workshops] our 2020 Vision which is to have a thousand churches with a average size of five hundred.”

So why hasn’t Phil Pringle and his leadership team told the truth about the fact that they were being led by the Natural Church Development strategies of Christian A Schwarz? Why lie? Might it be that  Phil Pringle thought that if he convinced his congregation that it was God’s vision rather than his own that the people would support it?  Who is Phil Pringle really trusting to lead his church?

These are serious questions considering the fact that people at C3 genuinely believe that Pringle is a prophet and gets direct visions, (like the 2020 Vision), from God.  Trusting in, and following, false teachers and false prophets is one of the ways the devil keeps people from true faith and the true repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Moore also revealed his thoughts what would happen if C3 did not fulfill the Phil Pringle’s God-given 2020 Vision:

“However if we don’t, we’ll be pretty happy with the journey because we’re going to be healthy on the way through. But our feeling is that we’re probably going to do pretty well  with our vision.”

There you have it folks. Gordon Moore does not care if Phil Pringle gets away with lying in the name of God to manipulate the tens of thousands throughout the C3 movement. If they fail the 2020 Vision, as long as people are “pretty happy with the journey”, why should Gordon Moore and Phil Pringle worry about desecrating the integrity and character of God? How can anyone in C3 feel “pretty happy” when these men boldly lie in the name of God to manipulate them?

If a prophet claims to speak and see on behalf of God and their claims do not come to pass, the bible in the Old Testament commanded that the false prophet be stoned. If these false prophets are found in the church, they are too be excommunicated and condemned for their lies and blasphemy. However, such action in C3 culture is considered to be “unloving”. As we have documented continually, C3 loves their false prophet to the point that they will demonise and slander those that question their prophets behaviours outside their church.

Our question to C3 members who wish to defend the blatant lies of Phil Pringle:

If Pringle comes to you and rips you off blind with his lies and false visions, why do you put up with it?

We will be looking more at the Natural Church Development organization as time progresses.

Below this video is the transcript.

Source: Results of NCD in C3 Churches, Results of NCD in C3 Churches, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzIPWHQLydE, Published on 14/08/2012. (Accessed 17/01/2014.)

TRANSCRIPT

“Results of Natural Church Development in C3 Churches in Australia”

Christian: “We just spent a wonderful evening with Gordon Moore  here in the restaurant in Brisbane. But he discussed and shared a lot about experiences that this church has made. Uh, Gordon, your representing the C3 Churches which is according to our research, the healthiest denomination that we are aware of. At the same time the denomination that applies the principles of NCD most consistently. Can you share about what roll National Church Development play in your overall strategy.”

Gordon Moore: “Uh, sure Christian. First of all I’d like to say thank you very much for coming to Australia. We’ve been really looking forward to sharing with you and hearing from you. Um. NCD has probably been the one of the greatest tools we have encountered. I guess first of all in our journey as a movement of churches we started out very organically. Uh, naturally with a move of God and just seeking to plant churches. We found that NCD helped us bring that empirical evidence of growth and health in the life of the church. So our movement has embraced NCD as our number one health analysis tool. We use it in oversight. We encourage all our churches to do this. But we go further than that. We actually take the results and the consultation that comes from your team and seek to apply that to the local church level and also the nation and to all our churches in the movement.

Christian: “Let’s us ask real quickly. Where do you expect your movement to be in the year 2020?”

Gordon Moore: “Funny you should say that Christian. We’ve formulated as a result of all of this our 2020 Vision which is to have a thousand churches with a average size of five hundred. The thousand churches is our quantitative vision that we look for growth, we look for the kingdom of God to grow in advance and also the five hundred average size is a quality measurement. Where after a “kind-of” church. A church that ranges somewhere between four hundred and eight hundred, that has a team that is viable, that has the resources to go out, plant churches and fulfill the commission of Christ.”

Christian: “And if we meet again in eight years from now, will you say, ‘We have arrived there’ or do you sense that you will be far away from that?”

Gordon Moore: “We’re on track to meet that. However if we don’t, we’ll be pretty happy with the journey because we’re going to be healthy on the way through. But our feeling is that we’re probably going to do pretty well  with our vision. I mean if you aim at nothing you’re gonna hit it every time, right? So we believe that having a vision is important but the most important thing is that we are vitally connected to Christ and our lives our healthy. And that reflects in our churches as well. That our churches are healthy communities that are growing and manifesting Christ to a needy world.”

Source: Results of NCD in C3 Churches, Results of NCD in C3 Churches, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzIPWHQLydE, Published on Aug 14, 2012. (Accessed 17/01/2014.)

We will be looking more at the Natural Church Development organisation as time progresses.

RELATED ARTICLES

Prophet Pringle’s God-Given 2020 Vision Lie (Part 1)

Prophet Pringle’s God-Given 2020 Vision Lie (Part 2)

Prophet Pringle’s God-Given 2020 Vision Lie (Part 3)

Prophet Pringle’s God-Given 2020 Vision Lie (Part 4)

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Prophet Pringle’s God-Given 2020 Vision Lie (Part 2)

27 Sunday Oct 2013

Posted by Nailed Truth in Pringle's Behaviour, Pringle's Beliefs, Pringle's Doctrine/Gospel, Pringle's Methods

≈ 25 Comments

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2020 Vision, c3 2020 vision, c3 church, c3 church movement, C3 leaders meeting, ccc, ccc 2020 vision, ccc church, ccc vision, college, conference, conferences, false prophet, false teacher, god given, god given vision, god vision, Habakkuk, leaders meeting, Phil Pringle, Presence Conference, Pringle, Prophet Phil Pringle, vision, Vision 2020

For a very long period of time we have seen Pringle play word games and use deceptive means to convince people that his prophetic 2020 Vision from God is being fulfilled. The reason why we are tackling this issue now is because of recent footage we managed to find online.
In our first article we established that Pringle had received a ‘God-give’ vision to PLANT 1000 churches by the year 2020.

If you have not read our previous article, Prophet Pringle’s God-Given 2020 Vision Lie (Part 1), do so now.
 
In this article we will examine how Phil Pringle is purposely going out of his way to convince his members that his church is PLANTING churches daily to ‘fulfill’ the 2020 vision.

IS PHIL PRINGLE YOUR HABAKKUK?

In the past, we critiqued a giving sermon that had Pringle twist the definition of ‘church plant’. We were being overtly cautious at the time because we believed our critics would accuse us falsely of making up the transcript or find some minor fault with us if we accused Phil Pringle of being highly deceptive.

C3 Giving Sermon Transcript: Just Another Manic Sunday

“Let Me Just Talk To You Out Of A Scripture” – Pringle’s Use of John 3:16

In our “Let Me Just Talk To You Out Of A Scripture…” article, we think it is important to reiterate the following information:

In his message Phil Pringle does not seem to know basic arithmetic:

56 people + 36 wanting to plant a church + 16 churches rebranded + 2 church plants ≠ 120 Church Plants

We are almost forced to believe that Dr. Phil Pringle doesn’t have a basic knowledge of church missions and biblical terminology. Pringle is calling ‘church planting’ a “group of pastors” to be “thirty six churches” and “a guy in Bulgaria who has sixteen churches” who possibly “wants to hook” into the C3 movement…

Pringle continues to make dishonest and unsupported claims suggesting that his organisation is responsible for one church being planted every day in Jesus’ name. Pringle says, “I know you were doubting out there but it’s okay. I have my moments too. And so you and I believing together- we’ll start to see ten churches a day being planted and growing”…

Pringle begins to mix his phrases through his address so that it becomes difficult to know what Pringle actually means…

… previously in his message to garner funding he only talked about the number of churches that were being added to his movement, not how many people “will come to Christ all around the world today”. We can rightly conclude he is still talking about the 120 churches he was talking about previously because he confirmed that these churches were coming into the C3 Movement, “right now in Jesus’ name. That’s just in four weeks time”.

Pringle continues, “That’s just in the existing churches. Now once these new ones are coming in. And they come into Christ, they become disciples, they become empowered and they become ministries themselves”

It is important to ask whether more accurately these alleged thousands being saved from his aforementioned C3 church ‘plants’ are not rather those people in existing churches being rebranded into the C3 fold. This is flawed thinking to confuse such people who join the C3 banner with salvation into Christ. The conclusions we come too after such dialogue is not good.

If Pringle is saying churches who join C3 “come into Christ, …become disciples,” “become empowered” and “become ministries themselves”, that would make C3 a cult. That is, if Pringle believes their movement is the only true church with the right teachings and formulas for salvation then he himself has set his movement to be a cult…

The sermon that we critiqued was given on the 24th of October, 2010. We managed to get video footage of Phil Pringle later that week repeating the same false material to his staff and C3 college students.

First we want to show a video snippet that features Pringle at the start of his sermon portraying himself as a type of Habakkuk. In this snippet, Pringle stresses that leaders shouldn’t have a vision but a ‘God Vision’. As he is the leader, Pringle attempts to establish at the beginning of this sermon that he is a ‘leader’ leading by ‘example’ with his ‘God Vision’. Pringle is the Habbakuk of C3. He is the watchman and knows the future where the movement is heading. He has the vision to go forward. (Heaven forbid you question his infallible God-given direction.)

Here is the video. Below is the transcript.

“I just want to touch on a few things here today for all of us. As students and staff. Number one, is uh- vision: the importance of it. And how much we need that if we’re gonna change this world. We won’t achieve anything without a vision. But it needs to be a God vision. Okay?

Just having a vision is really not the answer. And so in all the business manuals and coaching, training, you’ll hear about how important vision is. But that’s just a vision people are dreaming up in their own mind. We need to have a God vision inside of us.” – Phil Pringle, 00:16, C3 Church Sydney and C3 College combined staff and students meeting 27 October 2010, http://vimeo.com/16260821, October 27, 2010 6:30 PM.

Later on, he recaps what he said earlier on Sunday (which is the transcript you read here). Transcript is below.

“Empowering saints is giving. Is delegation. It’s getting people to do things for God.  And- and uh, (hm-hm!), so we- we want to release people all the time to get stuff done. And I think it’s awesome! Every- I mean, every week, just about, we see a brand new musician up on the stage. And uh- to get people preaching in chapel. All these things.  But the ultimate goal is that we will get people to plant churches and grow churches all around the world.

In the last- uh- (I haven’t- I haven’t done a really detailed study on this though). Well let me- let me explain this. And I mentioned it on Sunday but for those who didn’t hear, I’ll say it again.

In Bali, (which was what? Four weeks ago? Four weeks ago? I think it was. One month? Yeah. [Crowd laughs] Thanks! Thanks Jake! It wasn’t four weeks. It was a month ago), and ah- In Bali, we had our South- East Asia conference, okay.

So a guy comes out. He says, “I’m joining the movement with my churches”. I said, “How many churches have you got?” He said, “Forty eight 48”. In a place called Myanmar [Burma]. So I said, “Okay”. And I really wanted to clear this up. I said, “It’s not just you joining? You’re actually- all these guys are coming?”

“Yep.”

Then another guy from Indonesia, (Philippines, sorry!), he was joining with eight churches. And then we were celebrating planting two churches at that time. All up that’s fifty eight churches. Right there, okay, four weeks ago. Then, another one of our overseers, has just come back from Indonesia. And he says, uh, he’s just having, he’s got thirty six churches just on their way in as well. That’s- ah- how many’s that? Ninety- ninety- four! Ninety four churches, okay?

Then, ah, in- in Africa, East Africa, the uh, the guys over there said they got about a hundred pastors and leaders. And there were thirty churches in Tanzania, Congo, bla-bla-bla, somewhere else. I thought, “I don’t know if they’re brand new or half new or whatever”. So I thought, “Oh! Just count half of them”. So that’s like a hundred and- that’s a hundred and ten. Hundred and nine actually.

Then Simon told me that he’s talking to a guy in Bulgaria. Ah- who is a really good guy. He’s got sixteen churches. And he is also hooking up. He’s got a big church, one of the biggest in Bulgaria. It’s about six hundred. That’s a big church in that part of the world. So that’s one hundred and twenty. One hundred and twenty churches in one month. That adds up to a growth rate of around about four churches a day. Okay? You know, like- I s- I- I know! I know! So, what are you doing here?

You’re getting ready to look after these churches. You’re getting ready to grow these churches.” – Phil Pringle, 24:16, C3 Church Sydney and C3 College combined staff and students meeting 27 October 2010, http://vimeo.com/16260821, Uploaded October 27, 2010 6:30 PM.

SO WHAT? WHAT ARE WE SEEING?

Let us believe Phil Pringle for a moment. Let us establish for a second that the 2020 Vision IS from God. Pringle has emphatically stated that this 2020 ‘God Vision’ or ‘God-given vision’ is to PLANT 1000 churches. But what are we seeing? We are seeing a man trying to convince his various audiences that the 2020 Vision is being fulfilled for the glory of God. 

But were 120 churches PLANTED in his movement over one month? No.

If Pringle was following the ‘God Given’ 2020 vision, he would be planting churches and not rebranding, converting or assimilating churches into his movement. If he is not planting church, isn’t Pringle opposing the ‘God Given’ 2020 Vision?

What else are we seeing? Let’s say that those 120 church joined the C3 movement. What does this mean?

It means that a third of his churches were established in ONE MONTH. If any person examined his claim in ratio to the current number of churches in his movement a few months later, they’d know that Pringle was lying to them. Where are these church ‘plants’ today?

This actually raises more questions. Is the C3 Church Movement mainly made up of church plants or rebranded churches? If the C3 Church movement fills up with redbranded churches, does this mean that the movement itself is failing God and His 2020 Vision?

We are about to discover that the C3 movement is mainly filled with rebranded churches.

ARE CHURCHES REALLY BEING PLANTED OR REBRANDED?

Whenever a C3 Church plant is about to be undertaken in the C3 Church movement, the news is often huge. For example, leading up to it’s establishment, Phil Pringle and other leaders were monotonously advertising, Facebooking and twittering the C3 Hong Kong church plant. If churches were being planted everyday, Pringle and his leadership would be plastering the news everywhere. However, they don’t.

We would like to conclude that the majority of C3 churches are not church plants but takeovers. To say that churches are being rebranded is not accurate. A takeover is more appropriate since C3 specifically targets churches and assimilates them into it’s collective.

What should be evident in the above transcripts is how C3 uses their conferences to target and market to churches to join their movement. In the name of ‘relevancy’, a C3 conference can easily make local churches feel inadequate, boring and irrelevant. Who cares about the local church and cultural sensitivity when C3 is the answer to your church’s problem! (Who could resist the enticing relevant music, the flashy lights, and the manufactured presence of God?)

Consider again what Pringle said in the above transcripts.

“In Bali, we had our South- East Asia conference, okay.

So a guy comes out. He says, “I’m joining the movement with my churches”. I said, “How many churches have you got?” He said, “Forty eight 48”. In a place called Myanmar [Burma]…

Then another guy from Indonesia, (Philippines, sorry!), he was joining with eight churches. And then we were celebrating planting two churches at that time. All up that’s fifty eight churches…”

“And then Simon came back from the European conference and he met a guy in Bulgaria who has sixteen churches. And he wants to hook in as well.”

May we remind you again what Pringle said how he wanted people to see his Presence Conference:

“We really want  to become more cross-denominational, not parochial about just being C3… And it’s so important that we just, you know, spill the banks, go over, lower the wall, let the water run through the city and be a blessing. And not out there just to drag people into- you know- and to get people into and- many people will get involved in what we’re doing and that’s good. But I don’t want that to be the only motivation that we have. I think that if we have the motivation to be a blessing beyond us, that would be a really good- a really good idea.” – Phil Pringle, C3 Leaders Meeting With Phil Pringle – May 2011, Youtube, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DgTdtB-ha0s, Uploaded by CCCOF on May 5, 2011.

So we can rule out the fact that this ‘vision’ is about ‘planting churches’. We’ve now established this to be false. While we can argue that C3 does rebrand churches, it doesn’t accurately describe the malicious scheming and marketing attempts they use to target vulnerable churches through their conferences around the world. If what is said in the transcripts is true, then one third of all C3 Churches are takeovers. However, C3 appears to inform us that they have taken over more churches than they have planted.

If people are still not convinced that the 2020 Vision is a lie, this next bit of information should convince you.

THW 20/20 VISION FAILING IN VISION

We wrote an article back in December of 2011. In it we had screen grabs and older information on the location of C3 Churches around the world .

C3 Reports It Has Roughly 243 Churches Globally

Now the date is the 27th of October 2013. All the screengrabs you see and read below are recorded on this date.

If people visit the c3churchglobal.com website, click ‘CHURCHES’ and you will come across to this page (http://c3churchglobal.com/church):

proof_c3churchgloblal-trueplants_21-10-2013

You will be taken to this map. You will notice links at the bottom of the right hand corner: “VIEW: ALL | PLANTS”. This wasn’t available two years ago. This is recently added. If you click ‘ALL’ you will see this map:

proof_c3churchgloblal-trueplants2_21-10-2013

So why does the C3 Church Global have a link to PLANTS? When you click the ‘PLANTS’ link, you will see the following map:

proof_c3churchgloblal-falseplants_21-10-2013

Going by the newer information what are we looking at? There are only seven church plants in America? Five church plants in Europe? Three church plants in Europe? Four church plants in Asia? Four in the South East Asia Pacific rim? Four in Australia? About nine in New Zealand and a few around Fiji?

With the information given, that is about fourty churches in total that C3 Church considers ‘Church Plants’. Yet the C3 movement brags of planting anywhere between 240 to 400 churches worldwide? And what are the churches in blue? Church takeovers?

If this information is true, than Phil Pringle has failed spectacularly to fulfill his 2020 Vision. If God did give Pringle the 2020 Vision, then we have the C3churchglobal website exposing Pringle for the false prophet that he is.

NOTE: We would like to ask for your help next article. If you can help us find churches that C3 has taken over, please email us links, screen grabs, testimonies or other forms of evidence. Our email is c3churchwatch@hotmail.com.

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