The famous preacher Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,
“A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats.”
Do you think that a C3, CHC or Hillsong Pastor comes across more like an entertaining clown rather than a faithful shepherd? Chris Rosebrough from Fighting For the Faith wrote an exceptional article what the role of the pastor should be. Sadly, we do not know any C3 pastors or Hillsong Pastors who reflect the role of a proper biblical Christian pastor.
When you call these pastors out on their antics their responses are predictable and consistent and usually go something like this:
Example 1
Church Attender: Hey pastor, why don’t you ever preach exegetical sermons? I feel like I’m not being fed here because your sermons usually only contain 3 or 4 verses taken out of context in order to teach some relevant life principle.
Pastor: Why are you so selfish? The church doesn’t exist for you. It’s not about you.
Example 2
Church Attender: Hey pastor, why did you have the worship team begin our Easter service with AC/DC’s Highway to Hell rather than a song proclaiming Jesus’ victorious resurrection from the grave? AC/DC is worldly at best and satanic at worst and that blasphemous song should not be brought into God’s house.
Pastor: Why are you so selfish? The church doesn’t exist for you. It’s not about you. Church isn’t for the already convinced its for the not yet convinced.
Example 3
Church Attender: Hey pastor, why are you preaching about movies rather than preaching God’s Word like 2 Tim 4:1-3 commands?
Pastor: Why are you so selfish? The church doesn’t exist for you. It’s not about you. Our church exists for people who are not yet believers.
Notice that each time the pastor answers using the standard seeker-driven talking point and doesn’t answer the question but makes a blanket claim that the church doesn’t exist for believers and therefore the person asking the question is guilty of selfishly believing that the church exists for them.
Anyone who’s been railroaded by these tactics knows that something is way off about these claims being made by seeker-driven pastors but don’t exactly know how to put their finger on the problem or know how to put it into words. This post will help you do that.
Notice that every time the word pastor has appeared, thus far, in this post that I’ve bolded it and underlined it. That is to help you spot the irony of the statements being made by seeker-driven pastorsand that irony will help you identify the underlying error in their tactics and methodologies.
Here’s the irony…No where in scripture does it say that the church exists for unbelievers. BUT, there are clear passages that state that pastors and elders are to serve the church. Therefore, it is ironic and foolish for a pastor, whose job is to serve the church to justify methods that don’t serve Christians by claiming that the church doesn’t exist for believers.
Here are the key passages that address this topic. We’ll begin by first looking at the passages that discuss spiritual gifts. The reason for this is that the ability to teach God’s word is a gift given by the Holy Spirit to certain people within the body of Christ.
The Purpose of Spiritual Gifts is to Build Up the Church Not The World
The Bible teaches that God, The Holy Spirit gives different gifts to different believers for the building up of the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:4–7). Teaching is one of the gifts that the Holy Spirit gives to pastors and this gift is to be used specifically for believers.
“(In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth? He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,”
In clear and unambiguous language God states that shepherds (pastors) and teachers in the church exist to equip the saints (not unbelievers) and to build up the body of Christ (not the world). This is clear and irrefutable.
Those Who Have the Gift To Teach Are Commanded to Feed Christ’s Sheep by Teaching the Word of God
The duties of shepherds and teachers within the church are governed by the instructions given by Jesus Christ.
“When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him,“Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.” (John 21:15–17)
Notice that in this passage Jesus doesn’t tell Peter to entertain goats or dazzle the world. Instead, Christ soberly and firmly reinstates Peter after he’d denied Jesus three times. And Peter was reinstated into ministry and that ministry was to shepherd and feed Christ’s sheep. These commands by Jesus to Peter stuck with him his entire life. Peter himself would later exhort elders (pastors) with these words:
“So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight,not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you;not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock. And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.” (1 Peter 5:1–4)
This shepherding language is also use by the Apostle Paul when he addresses the elders of the Church of Ephesus. Here are Paul’s words of exhortation:
“Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them.” (Acts 20:28–31)
It’s clear from these passages that pastors are not literal shepherds and that Christians are not literal sheep. All of these images are metaphors that help create a mental picture of the difficult and sacrificial work of pastors. So, when Jesus told Peter to “feed my sheep” what was Jesus referring to? What does a Pastor/Shepherd feed Christ’s sheep with?
The answer is simple, the Word of God, and two passages will suffice in demonstrating this fact:
“[Jesus] answered, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.” (Matthew 4:4)
“But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.
I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.” (2 Timothy 3:14–4:4)
No commentary is needed for these verses because they clearly teach that God’s Word is ‘sheep food’ and that pastors are to be feeding the scriptures to Christ’s sheep.
The Bottom Line
The next time you hear a seeker-driven pastor attempt justify his shallow sermons and entertainment driven stunts by claiming that “the church doesn’t exist for believers”, kindly inform him that regardless of who the church exists for, his job exists to serve believers and Christ’s sheep and that if he won’t do his job that he’s rebelling against Jesus Christ Himself.
Source:Chris Rosebrough, For Whom Do Pastors Exist?, http://www.letterofmarque.us/2012/10/who-do-pastors-exist-for.html?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=for-whom-do-pastors-exist, 19/10/2012. (Accessed 23/02/2013.)
Christian Witness Ministries reports Phil Pringle teaching the following.
The Question being: “What do you think is under this sheep clothing-?
Is it — a real shepherd, a wolf or a false prophet?” (Matthew 7:15)
Phil Pringle ( PP ) was recorded at Wellington on the 19th March 2002
PP ” The atmosphere you create will attract spiritual power. Spirits live in spiritual atmospheres. You can create an atmosphere that attracts God or repels God.”
PP then describes how Jesus wants to clean up certain areas, and focuses on the toilet.
PP “Jesus came to ‘clean us up’ “.
PP further describes how Jesus wants to clean certain areas of our lives that are ‘messed up’.
PP “He wants to clean up the brown smears on the bowl”.
Then in reference to the atmosphere (in the toilet) PP continues on.
PP “The power of God is a tangible force.”
PP goes on to describe the power of God as ‘stuff’.
PP “The stuff of God can actually live in your clothes. It can get in the carpet, it can get in your hair. The stuff of God, the anointing. This stuff can get into your body and heal it. This stuff can get into your bank account. Praise God, now we’re talking amen. I need some of that in my bank account. It’s imparted through the laying on of hands. It’s inside your body, when you lay hands on people it travels.”
LC – The whole idea that God is stuff is in essence Monistic. I.e. The concept that creation and God are essentially one and the same. It is a materialistic worldview and not supported by the Bible…
“Monism is the view that reality consists of one fundamental, ultimate essence. It comes from the Greek mono, which means one. All is one. Therefore, in monism God and the universe are the same thing. This would mean that energy, motion, matter, thought, consciousness, etc., are all of one substance but are perceived differently.
Monism stands in opposition to the dualism and pluralism but is often defined the same as pantheism, the teaching that God and the universe are the same thing.
Monism is unbiblical because it denies the distinction between God and creation.”
Pringle protests that he doesn’t preach the prosperity gospel.
We’ve documented Pringle saying that Jesus died to make people rich. But did you know Pringle also teaches that Jesus was also buried and resurrected to make you rich? Phil Pringle gave this giving sermon on Resurrection Sunday 2012.
He teaches people again to sow money so they can grow money trees (1:36). Using a seed packet analogy, he contradicts the scripture Hebrews 11:1 he used at the start of his talk (2:35 and 3:07). He goes on to say,
“If He [Jesus] can beat death, he can beat the GFC. If He can beat death, He can beat any debts you’ve got in your world. All you gotta know is that it takes the sowing of a seed.” (3:56)
Pringle turns Christ’s death and resurrection into a financial principle in how to get money:
“The reason you and I are here this morning is because one seed was sown and one human life died in the ground and it’s risen again. That exact same principle applies to our giving here this morning. God has such a longing in his heart to bless you.” (4:19)
Finally, Phil Pringle encourages his members to give money as follows:
“And so right now, why don’t you and I get involved in a resurrection offering? A victorious offering! One that rises from the dead! You might say, ‘My finances are dead’. Well, here’s a moment to resurrect them. Here’s an opportunity to take the hold of a principle that God’s put in our hands.” (4:41)
This is not a biblical teaching and is completely disregarding the importance of Christ’s resurrection. Apostle Paul said,
“I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,” Philippians 3:10
Pringle clearly wants to know a Jesus and the principles of the resurrection so he can get money.
Pringle also teaches that money is Christ-like. In fact, it is probably safe to say that Pringle has great difficulty separating Jesus from filthy lucre. As his quote above teaches us: money dies, money becomes victorious and money rises from the dead.
Finally, Pringle prays to God in regards to this offering, “your ways are not our ways”. Who is Phil Pringle trying to deceive here? How is this God’s way? Does God really care about us acknowledging a principle that resurrects our finances? Or does God care about the way His Word is handled?
“You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you… After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing?” Galatians 3:1-4, NASB
“But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?” Galatians 4:9, NASB
“Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope.For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth? That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion will pay the penalty, whoever he may be.” Galatians 5:2-10, NASB
The scriptures also say,
“He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,” Titus 3:5, NASB, (Emphasis mine)
Before Pringle ‘lovingly’ bashes his critics (7:22), Pringle once again teaches people at C3 they can earn God’s grace by works. More specifically – if you give money, God gives you access to ‘grace’.
“And as you and I become givers in the kingdom of God, we’re gonna find ourselves accessing this grace. This unbelievable, inexhaustible, unending grace of God. Empowering you to have an abundance for every good work.” (6:57)
Click the time link above to see him make that specific comment or watch him say it in it’s proper context below.
You would have noticed C3 had plastered behind Phil Pringle this ‘scripture’:
“He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.” Titus 3:5
Was this orchestrated? Was this a coincidence? We can conclude it is very convenient for the scripture to be edited the way it was so Pringle could peddle this false doctrine that clearly contradicted the edited scripture. How is the moral and honest behaviour? Is this not leading people away from fundamental Christianity?
EDIT 05/05/2012: On the 4th of May, Phil Pringle twittered that his “media guys” had put something together to help with his message this coming weekend.
This is insightful for us to understand what goes on behind the scenes. It seems safe to say that Phil Pringle endorses the content in regards to what his “media guys” present in his sermons. With this in mind, it is highly likely that Phil Pringle gave them the distorted Titus 3:5 scripture that read, “He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit”.
For a friend in Sydney (a city in which I had no friends until Facebook changed all that), I am venturing into uncharted territory on this blog. C3ChurchWatch is covering the C3 Presence Conference in Sydney Australia. C3 Church is led by Phil Pringle but has a global presence. So check out my friend’s web site. Chances are, there’s an extension of the “movement” near you. (See this map for all the churches connected to C3 in Australia: http://www.c3churchglobal.com/churCch)
The conference has thankfully wrapped up for this year, though as you can see at the beginning of this video, they’re already heavily recruiting for next year’s conference. Steven Furtick was the headliner for Friday the 13th, 2012. I have heard enough of both Pastor Pringle and Pastor Furtick in the past to know that Friday the 13th is an appropriate date for pairing these two. Goodie, goodie… Can’t wait! Here we go:
0:30 Opens with a plug for the hundreds you can spend on the C3 schlock in the “Resource Center”.
0:35 Montage full of sappy music and all the “best lines” from the conference. These guys are like Woody from Toy Story where the same 10 lines come out over and over again if you just pull the string. Montage includes Phil Pringle working the crowd into frenzy so that they can feel some sort of glory cloud, or whatever, descend on them to make them sway and close their eyes and…. Ew! What is that?!
1:27 … Pulling out all the stops I see. Emaciated “Jesus” hanging on cross, live on stage in apparent agony.
3:20 Montage over. Phil Pringle on stage.
3:40 Phil and Laura (Not sure who Laura is in all this) say they’re not tired at all and ready to go for another week. I’m sure they’re just kidding Jake. Don’t have a heart attack. Doing some giveaways now to “delegates”? What are “delegates”? I don’t speak C3 I guess.
4:30 Ovation for the delegates/volunteers. Got it. Apparently part of their volunteer duties was to serve coffee and give hand massages and baklava to attendees in the TLC lounge. Teaching them about taking up the cross I guess… not!
5:28 Laura just announced 1000 already registered for next year. Rather than saying, “Cool, way to go!” Phil Pringle said, “That’s great! Let’s make it 3000 by the end of the night. What do you say?” Reminds me of my days in sales at Dell. They announce deadline for early registration end of May. Price doubles after then. And Phil is showing his great faith by announcing he is booking a bigger place.
7:23 Here is the carrot they used to get people to register today: attendees got their name in a drawing for the prizes. This first giveaway is four nights in a five-star hotel. $300 in spending money vouchers and VIP seats at next year’s conference. Yep, that’s the way to deny the flesh which wars against our spirit.
9:40 Steven Furtick takes the stage.
10:15 Immediately starts praising all the audience for their many worthy qualities. Scratch, scratch, scratch.
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions. (1 Timothy 4:3)
10:53 Gets big “Awww” from audience for confessing he missed his daughter’s first steps to be there. Should’ve stayed home, Steven. That’s time better spent.
11:33 Double-entendre. Just had to point out everything he misses being away from home and away from his wife.
12:06 Cues the audience to applaud their Pastor Phil, and his wife, Chris… the… co-… pastor…?
12:31 ”I’ve been thinking, what do I say about ______, [since] it’s the last session of the conference.” That blank ought to be filled with Jesus or God, right? No, he was meditating on what he should say about Pastor Phil. I’m curious how long before I time stamp a new subject before he stops talking about him. He’s got to pay it forward since Steven himself was honored so well by the speakers at his own Code Orange [scheduled] Revival.
13:28 Just getting started honoring Phil with a pithy saying. “God is not the God of either/or; He’s the God of both/and.” Chapter? Verse? Where is that in Scripture?
14:10 Summary so far: Pastor Phil and Chris, both “fun and focused”. I don’t recall that in Paul’s list of qualifications for overseers.
14:15 ”Spirit-led and smart”. A rare quality indeed. Got anything about Jesus? God? Bible? Almost 15 minutes in here.
15:00 Still sucking up to Phil. Now he’s “brilliant”, but not in the underwhelming Aussie sense. Makes joke about the Australian overuse of “brilliant”. Phil has to keep this in mind later as you’ll see at the end.
15:50 Says “Let’s get to it” and grabs Bible. Any bets on how long it takes to read from it?
16:15 Says he prayed for God to “lead him to the message” simultaneously with putting Bible back down. Ironic…
16:40 Moves away from Bible to little book of notes to announce title of message: “The Most Encouraging Message You’ve Never Heard.”
17:08 Segues back somehow to flattering Phil as well Bishop Dale Bronner (Word/Faith heretic), whom I predict he is about to quote.
17:30 ”Opening to Matthew 11:1-11″ he says… He’s reaching for the Bible and….
17:40 Fail. Now telling the audience “The Lord wants to give someone the courage to act.” That’s definitely not in Matthew 11.
17:50 Instructing on how to tell you’ve caught a vision. Is there a fever involved?
18:00 Vision – Action = Daydream. Got it. Now Matthew 11?
18:18 Reading Matthew 11 about John the Baptist in prison, asking “Are you the One?” Doesn’t even blink before making the passage about everyone there in Sydney and their “disappointed expectations.”
20:00 Got to give Pastor Furtick props. He catches that Jesus had announced earlier in Matthew that he was to fulfill the prophecy that he would “set prisoners free” and that John may have been tempted to doubt since that wasn’t happening for him. Not many people bring that up.
20:30 He thought Shawshank Redemption was a warm and endearing picture of prison?! Has he seen the movie?
21:00 Stand-up Comic Interlude (From here forward to be cited as SUCI): “Some of you are sitting next to your disappointed expectation.” Already had one regarding the use of “brilliant” in Australia and regarding missing his wife. So the SUCI count is up to three.
21:38 Talking about Steven’s life now.
22:15 SUCI #4, but sort of fell flat. Win some, lose some.
22:45 SUCI #5
23:00 Segue from Steven’s life to everyone else in audience now. Apparently we’ve all asked the question, “Is this it?” And you always need someone to encourage you.
23:45 First instance of “Turn to someone and say…”
23:50 Rest of passage he ends with “no one greater than John the Baptist” (and mumbles quickly yethteonewhoisleastinthekingdomofheavenisgreaterhthanhe…). Pastor Furtick says Jesus was giving John affirmation and encouragement. Strange. Neither John nor his disciples were even there to hear that. Talk about squishing a passage into a mold to fit your message.
25:50 Clears up that John’s disciples nor John were there. Where’s he going with this?
26:16 Seriously?? “It’s quite possible that Jesus has been talking about you… behind your back.” And may I say that’s some mighty wild speculation you’ve got going on there. Chapter? Verse? Scratch, scratch those itching ears.
26:55 ”Now why would he do that?” So now we’re going to speculate in order to find the possible reason for the fact you already arrived at by speculation. Brilliant. (See what a flexible word that is?)
28:00 ”Here’s my theory.” Okay, that’s not what you’re supposed to preach. [next breath] “1 Corinthians 2:5 says our faith shouldn’t rest in men’s wisdom but in God’s power… Maybe Jesus wanted John’s faith not to rest on how good John was doing, but in how good Jesus was.” Well, yes, that’s certainly true. Why did you say “maybe”? And what does this have to do with God talking behind our backs, and doesn’t obsessing about whether he is or not defeat Pastor Furtick’s own point he’s trying to make now about getting our eyes off of ourselves?
28:28 So much for the brief turn in the right direction. He shifts back… to talking about Steven Furtick. “There have been times in my life…”
29:00 ”God takes away affirmation to take us to a place of deeper affirmation in the Spirit.” Pastor Furtick, how in the world are you extracting this from John 11? Audience loves it though. Scratch, scratch, scratch.
29:50 ”Even though we don’t get to hear everything that Jesus said about John [because] this is a summary.” Where does it say this is a summary? “He says many more things about John. There’s a further discourse in Matthew 11.” (And of course he will not read it. Can’t blame Steven. I don’t think I’ve heard any two people interpret that passage that follows in the same manner. It’s a difficult passage and I don’t blame him for not wanting to tackle it, but a good pastor at least attempts it. Not worth a federal case though.)
30:00 Steven is going to share three affirmative statements that he believes God might be saying behind your back. How in the world does it help me to speculate on what God might be saying behind my back? Wouldn’t it be wise to focus on what we know he already said to me in his Word?!
30:24 ”I felt like the Lord put on my heart to tell somebody today.” Oh now, it’s the Holy Ghost answering machine. God is having trouble getting through to people so he has enlisted the help of Steven Furtick.
30:38 Yikes: “Hear the Word of the Lord; God wanted me to tell somebody…” That’s a bold statement
30:44 Affirmation #1: “You’re doing better than you think you are.” (Please note in link to Pooh bear quote below that I personally think two of these three points are inspired more by Pooh than the Bible.) In Romans 12:3, am I not exhorted not to think of myself more highly than I ought but instead with sober judgment? 2 Corinthians 4:4 says that the god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers. Are you saying that our blindness is concerning not being able to see how good we are? But I guess I’d better make a way to get this to jibe with the rest of my Bible, because we’re adding a new book. Steven said this is the “Word of the Lord”.
31:35 SUCI #6
31:50 ”But then you’ve got to tap into that place, when Jesus says to John…” So when I am feeling poorly about my own performance, I need to tap into what Jesus said about John? Wow, this is twisted logic. He’s saying that Jesus had a good reason for not saying these things to John’s face, but is encouraging us to imagine Jesus is saying them about us? So what he’s arguing would have produced inordinate pride in John, we’re somehow going to handle better? And how do you know that those to whom you speak are “doing better than they think”? What if I’m a complete screw up? What if I’m a heretic? What if I’m a serial killer? You have thousands, probably millions, watching this conference. Odds are that you are proclaiming this to some sociopaths of the highest order!
32:30 Long general string of general affirmations proclaiming how very wonderful everyone is in the room. Everyone’s now applauding. Scratch, scratch, scratch. And apparently, if you say it loud enough, it really makes it true.
33:00 Back to Steven’s life. “Pastor Mickey” did better than he thinks because he poured into Stephen when Steven was young and now Mickey is flying all over the world vicariously through Steven Furtick. I don’t know if Pastor Mickey’s going to be bragging about that one on Judgment Day.
34:05 Called the audience a crowd of “world-changers”. Scratch, scratch, scratch.
33:22 SUCI #7 about teenagers being demon-possessed. I have a 14-year-old son and admit that’s actually kind of funny.
33:55 ”Find somebody and touch them and tell them, ‘You’re doing better than you think you are.’” There. My beagle is sleeping at my feet. I just told her. She’s duly affirmed and looks truly peaceful. But that’s actually is what she always looks like. Oh well. Don’t try this on a human, folks. You’ll do more damage than you think you will.
35:00 Getting loud and telling them to “clap by faith”. Really?
35:38 ”I get to preach a lot of places. You’re special!” Really, guys, tell me you’re not going to fall for that, are you? Now moving on to tell Phil Pringle how awesome his church is.
36:30 ”Please receive that from my heart.” He’s speaking of the encouragement, “You’re doing better than you think you are.” So is that from God or from your heart? Which is it? Then quotes but does not give reference. “It’s God’s kindness that leads you to repentance.” Tell us about that kindness please. Why is God so kind? How do we know it? Hint, you find it all in the Bible and it has nothing to do with self-affirmation but is seen on the cross, which actually only affirms our lost state and our need to be saved from our sins.
36:50 Affirmation #2: “You matter more than you think you do.” Scratch, scratch, scratch.
37:00 ”John felt completely discarded. I’m using a little bit of my imagination.” At least you admit it. But is that what you’re called to do as a pastor, to preach your imagination? Immediately also says, “Maybe, I’m reading a little too much into the text.” Yeeeeees. “That’s somebody in here [in the audience].” Bingo. You’ve just arrived at where you’re reading too much into the text.
37:25 Now talking about Steven’s childhood. Trading card story.
39:00 ”It took someone who knew the value to retrieve something that I’d given away too easily. Some of you are giving up on yourself too easily.” My response is only found a few verses before where he started tonight:
“And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.” (Matthew 10:38, 39)
39:20 Now talking about our need to go into the “enemy’s camp to retrieve what you gave away too easily”. Wow, this is dangerous ground. Doesn’t this sound a lot like what Jesus did for us already? Where is he getting this from this passage?!
39:28 Assertion after assertion: “You can tell the value of something by the price that was paid for it.” Doesn’t that contradict the story he just told about the baseball cards. Steven didn’t pay much for them, thus disguising the value. And in our case, we are given value by the price paid for us on the Cross, but it doesn’t prove that we were valuable in the first place.
39:38 Steven just said Jesus’ blood was shed for us to prove our worth. /sigh/ Chapter? Verse? Got anything about our sin and the need for atonement?
39:45 ”You have infinite potential, in Jesus name!” Why does everyone keep tagging that onto the end of assertions as if it makes it better? It only makes it more blasphemous.
40:00 Launching into Code Orange testimonial of some sort; a horrible, sad story about boy who died in car accident while his parents were at revival. Ugh, It’s sounds like he turned that poor boy’s funeral into a Steven Furtick pep rally. He even made someone else’s funeral about him. Ick.
41:17 ”Do you want to know what I texted?” Actually, no. Can you tell us about the text in that beautiful leather-bound tome sitting useless on the podium there?
41:30 Story about God talking to him again. Put the bulletin from the funeral into the rocks in the valley where Joshua told the sun to stand still. Interesting. Take it from someone who knows. Pastor Furtick is carrying a whole lot of guilt over the fact that his parents were at his revival and not with their boy when he was killed in a car wreck. He’s acting like someone desperately trying to make some restitution. I know what it’s like to carry misplaced guilt over the death of a child and this man has it in spades. Pray for Pastor Furtick. I keep seeing signs of his heart softening in this sermon. I can’t put my finger on it, but…. something is just a bit different.
42:00 Oh dear, he is apparently trying to convince the parents that their son’s death “counted for something” and did make a difference, because people are starting Bible studies and such because of him. I have some personal experience with families who have lost children and this approach is usually not taken well. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure they don’t want to think God took their son to accomplish some purpose of his. But even if they did, it’s still probably not what they want to hear right after he dies. I understand what he’s trying to do, but I think it could be misguided.
And on a different note, he’s trying to comfort the audience with: “you matter so much more than you think you do.” (Throwing this in for free, but I found that I found a lot of peace when I learned that I matter less than I thought I did. It’s a comfort to know that God is big enough to keep me from screwing everything up. Just sayin’.)
43:00 ”I’m not leaving you [John] in that prison because I’ve forsaken you. I’m leaving you in that prison because you’re so strong; you’re so mighty!” May I point out the obvious here? Jesus left John in that prison because his purpose was not to free people in physical prisons but to free us from our Sin. He did not come to conquer the romans or Herod. He came to conquer death.
43:11 Again, he’s turning it around again to apply it to everyone listening to say that they are exactly like John the Baptist.
43:40 Affirmation (but not really) #3: “It’s less about you than you think it is.” Hmmmmmmm… Is he trying to get the Matt Chandler monkey off his back now? Trying to prove he doesn’t think the Bible is about himself?
Wow, now he’s saying he had to throw that third point in there or you’ll “take this message the wrong way” and is taking the time to mock his first two points. This is one weird schizoid sermon!
44:12 ”He must become greater; I must become less…” Yes… Yes…
44:20 ”Want you to leave this conference on affirmation overload, but we want it to be the right kind of affirmation, otherwise it will backfire.” Like giving ammunition to your critics?
44:45 Now quoting Hebrews 12: “Consider Jesus, who endured such hostility from sinners.” Encouraging the audience to step back and see there’s a bigger picture than your immediate surroundings.
45:00 ”I’ll bet John got his affirmation when he saw him face to face,” says Pastor Furtick. You don’t have to speculate there, Steven. We know that the righteous will be told “Well done, my good and faithful servant.” (Matthew 25:21)
45:14 ”The Lord wanted me to tell you…” Again with the Holy Spirit answering machine! The Lord has already told you to proclaim his Word! You’re not doing that, so it’s hard for me to believe that he’s taking the time to speak to you personally when you’re ignoring what he’s already clearly commanded you: “Preach the Word, in season and out.” (2 Timothy 4:2)
45:40 ”Your dream is rotting in prison.” /gasp!/ Not that!
46:00 ”God can do anything in your life.”
46:07 Obligatory sports analogy. Oh my goodness. Is he going to make Jesus, our advocate, the referee challenging the ruling on the field? That’s a terrible analogy.
47:25 ”This is going to be a turning point in someone’s life right now.” Maybe so, but for the better?
47:53 ”Sometimes the official says” (after coaching audience that they need to get ready to get real loud and emotional soon “we’re going to take it through the roof in a second”.) [dramatically] “Upon… further… review… [cue sappy music] the ruling on the field is overturned.” Our situation is only hopeless because we’re looking at it from the wrong angle. Really?! That is NOT the solution for our lost condition proposed by the Bible. The truth is, we are to agree with God that it is hopeless and cry for mercy! Wow…
49:16 ”I believe the divine verdict for somebody tonight is, ‘Upon… further… review’” [music and audience getting louder and louder, and so is Pastor Furtick of course.]
49:30 Whipping up crowd. Band getting louder. Girl in band jumping up and down with arms up in the air, reminding me of high school pep rallies.
49:57 ”In His Presence, anything is possible!” Chapter? Verse? Crowd now “shouting to God with a voice of triumph.” What are they triumphing over and based on what?
50:11 Starts praying, sort of. Thanking him for all the encouragement he’s brought through the message tonight. His eyes are going in the exact same places they were when he was addressing the crowd. Who is he really talking to? Now asserting what God’s voice is telling them right now, and not quoting from God’s Word…
50:40 Wants to pray for specific people. “If you know God is speaking this message specifically to you… shoot your hand in the air and let me pray for you.” What do you want to bet these are going to get carefully counted as people making decisions for Jesus to boost those stats? And upon what are they basing their belief that God is speaking this message to them? Their gut feeling?
51:05 Making “positive confession” over the people with hands raised via recap of three points of message.
51:29 No, here’s the stats they’ll count. He told them to put their hands down and now he wants to pray for those who need a “brand new start with Jesus Christ.” I’ve heard this “gospel presentation” from Pastor Furtick before. The false gospel of the “God of the fresh start, of the second chance.”
52:00 ”Allow me the privilege me pray with you to begin a relationship with Jesus Christ. This is the gospel: that He lived the life you couldn’t live; He was sinless. He died the death you should have died.” (Wow, is he going to totally land on his feet here?) “They crucified him. The greatest agony he suffered on the cross; it was not the scourging; it was not the whip. All of that was terrible. It was the separation from his heavenly Father that he had to experience when he said, as we heard this week, ‘My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me?’ When he prayed that, he was also making an announcement that because he was forsaken for you, you don’t have to be forsaken ever by your heavenly Father.”
(I have to insert here that this falls short. He did mention that Jesus was sinless but was not clear the he was forsaken because of taking our Sin upon himself and that’s why he was forsaken, because of our sin. And at this point, we don’t even know what a sin is, because the Law hasn’t been preached. As far as we know at this point, a sin is letting our dream rot in prison or not believing God is talking behind our back or something. We have no idea.)
“There’s a divine reunion, and the access to that is by faith, because here’s what happened: when he rose again on the third day (assuming the crowd knows this I guess) there’s a literal bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. It happened. He’s taken into heaven. Now he sits at the right hand of God.” (Covering the apostles creed, but I’ll bet he doesn’t get to the next part, that he will come again to judge the living and the dead.)
“His grace is available to anyone who will repent and believe. That’s it.” (Repent… from… what?! It’s like you’ve given someone the news the Governor commuted their death sentence and they didn’t even know they’d been convicted of a crime!) “To completely trust him with your life, place your faith in him.” No, placing your faith in him is not so much “trusting him with your life” as trust in His life, death and resurrection. I am not capable of perfectly trusting God with my life.
“By Grace you are Saved” (Pulled from context) “If you know you are not in a right relationship with the Lord tonight…” How would they know that? Y’all have done everything there at C3 to make sure that they feel “in tune with God” complete with altered state of consciousness that probably results from the loud repetitive music and rhythmic mantras Furtick cheered from the stage.
Gives instructions for magic prayer to bring them in right relationship with God, of course with “heads bowed, eyes closed” or the prayer won’t work I guess because that’s always part of the procedure. Instructing everyone to pray it out loud together, I guess so those who really need to pray it won’t be embarrassed or so maybe someone will accidentally get saved. Says this prayer will cause them to saved and cleansed and forgiven if they want to give their lives to Jesus Christ. Problem, the Bible says Jesus gave his life for us, not the other way around. And… Salvation, cleansing and forgiveness come, according to God’s Word, from baptism, receiving his body and blood through the Lord’s Supper, and through the proclamation of the gospel:
Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins…” (Acts 22:16)
“For this is the blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.” (Matthew 26:28)
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes… (Romans 1:16)
54:00 Steven Furtick’s “Sinner’s Prayer”: “Heavenly Father, I come to you now. I confess that I’m a sinner. I need a Savior. I believe you died for me Jesus. I confess you rose again. I ask you now to give me new life. Change my heart. I want to follow you. I want to be like you.”
55:00 Asking crowd to shoot their hand in the air on the count of three (while eyes are still closed) to say they prayed that prayer. Saying he’s not trying to emotionally manipulate. Asks those with hands up to come forward to… altar? There’s an altar? I just see a stage. No manipulation? Furtick keeps prompting and flattering those who come forward for their boldness and the music is continuing to swell.
56:00 ”Come on, come on, run to this altar! Run to Jesus!”
57:05 Starts addressing people who have come forward regarding their “decision” and picks up Bible and tucks under arm. Interesting. Maybe he is just preparing for his exit of the stage. But he takes his Bible. Where’s his tablet he was using? I think that’s still on stage.
58:25 ”Repeat after me: I am a new creation in Jesus Christ; I am a new Creation in Jesus Christ. Hallelujah!” /band swells again/
58:38 Phil Pringle back on stage. Praying for God to fill everyone with the Holy Spirit and with peace and to let them have “an experience that is undeniable”. Yeah, they’ll at least have an experience. And we know that these guys teach you that no one can argue with your “experience”. Pastor Phil doing the thing with the low-talking, forcing everyone’s attention to be fixed on him because they have to strain to hear. Getting ready for a big crescendo. Keeps throwing out buzz words in rhythmic, mesmerizing way:
“Holy Spirit… the Anointing… Power of God from on High… Fills hearts…. And Changes worlds… in Jesus’ name” You can feel… yourself getting… sleepy and… very suggestible. Then says gently, “Hey guys, look this way.” (Still in gentle tone) This totally reminds me of when a hypnotist transitions from bringing the person into the altered state of consciousness to carefully placing whatever suggestion is needed. It will be very interesting to see what Phil Pringle chooses to say next:
Fixed his attention on a particular teen crying next to stage and asking, still rhythmically, why he’s crying. He just wants to be happy. He starts naming, still rhythmically, all the people that are near the stage that love him and that “we all love you. You matter more than you think.” Again addressing another teen. Boy this guy is good. I am mesmerized and I can’t stand the guy.
1:00 Phil Pringle starts singing Beatle’s song for no reason whatsoever, other than the kid saying he’s 17 and the age mentioned in the Beatle’s song is 17. Again, with a soft mesmerizing voice. Then talks to another teen. Why is he picking all the teens? Is that all that came forward? Telling him to stick to his decision, don’t let his friends drag him of. “You’re strong. A very powerful young man.” Mesmerizing, mesmerizing. I’m blissed out just listening to this. The dude freaks me out. How many more minutes of this? I might be catching a plane to Sidney if I’m not careful. Won’t bore you, more of the same. Only addresses the young people that came forward. “Do you feel different after praying that prayer? How do you feel? You feel incredible?! There’s a cartoon called The Incredibles, isn’t there?” How hip and relevant for you to know that, Phil. “They’re powerful. You’re more powerful.” And this imitator of C.S. Lewis’ green witch continued to mesmerize them. We need the stench of Puddleglum’s burning flesh to wake us up here. Wow.
Now flattering a 12-year-old saying he thought he was 18. “Are you a good boy? … Isn’t that nice… you look like a good boy. God’s proud of you. He’s very happy you’re out here tonight.” Wow. He’s now telling them about the “born-again motor” that’s been put inside of them to empower them to do all the things that God wants them to do. Wow, that’s a new one. Haven’t heard that one before.
1:05:25 Fail! Phil Pringle just calls one of his staff members by the wrong name when he calls her up on stage to tell everyone up front to follow her out. Then spends time flattering her to make up for the fact that he forgot her name. She seems to swallow it, laps it up. Ugh!
1:07:15 Band whipping things up again. Crowd goes while. Phil thanks crowd and tells them they’re “stellar”. He pauses before “stellar” because he probably wants to avoid “brilliant” since Steven Furtick so perceptively pointed out that that word has little meaning in Australia. So he pauses before “amazing” too. Probably a little irritated that Steven narrowed his already limited vocabulary of flattery, which he’s doing now, continuing to flatter the crowd. Scratch, scratch, scratch. Just announced a painting (found out later Phil Pringle is selling his own paintings. People ting they’re anointed or something.) is up to $30,000 (silent auction?), announced by Laura. Nice. So glad y’all are making even more money than you’ve already raked in tonight. Talking up next year’s conference, register now. Brags about 21-day fast they went on before this conference.
Okay, gladly that’s all. But I should insert one last disturbing note. I was informed by my friend Mr. Jake Elliot that this particular sermon was actually the bright spot in the whole conference. It was downright orthodox in comparison with what the other speakers put out there the rest of the week. And here is the Pooh Bear Clip I promised. I couldn’t help but be thinking of this particular clip and wondering if this is more where Steven Furtick got the inspiration for this sermon, more so than the Bible.
Chris Rosebrough has once again hit the airwaves on ‘Pirate Christian Radio’, slamming the behaviour of Phil Pringle and Steven Furtick at Presence Conference 2012. Listen to him at ‘Fighting For The Faith’ to critique Steven Furtick pulpit pimping at Presence Conference (12/04/2012) below:
• LCMS Seminary Prof Promotes Lectio Divina
• The Church’s Most Dangerous Enemies
• Steven Furtick Prosperity Pimps for Phil Pringle at Presence 2012
• Good Easter Sermon by Jonathan Hunt
Rosebrough states at the beginning of his program,
“… I’m going to be playing the audio from a video segment where they are- where Phil Pringle is basically getting people geared up to give for a miracle offering. Give money and you’ll receive a miracle. It’s – I mean it is- so, so blatantly obvious and just terrible as to how they are, you know, fleecing the people attending the Presence Conference! And using God as the pretense for it. It’s- it’s- uh-ah-ih- I don’t even want to say it borders on criminal. I think it’s flat-out criminal. I can’t see that this is not a crime in the Kingdom of God, what these men are doing. Steven Furtick and Phil Pringle, both.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (8:20), 13/04/2012.
When Furtick says at 28:25 on Rosebrough’s show, that Elisha tells the widow in 2Kings 4 to give, Rosebrough responded,
“No! Elisha did NOT tell her to give. Not one red cent. He just lied and blasphemed the name of the one-true God by mis-using his Word, to pimp this people for money.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (48:30), 13/04/2012.
Rosebrough correctly points out that Elisha asked the woman what was in her house. She said she had the oil. But Rosebrough points that she never gave that oil to Elisha. Instead he instructs her to keep the oil, get large containers and start filling. She was blessed with a miracle. A gift of grace. She did not give to get.
Rosebrough makes this claim about Steven Furtick,
“Steven Furtick is prosperity pimping here, priming the financial pump for Phil Pringle and the Presence Conference. And he’s doing it by mangling God’s Word.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (46:48), 13/04/2012.
In critiquing Steven Furtick’s offering talk, Chris Rosebrough stated that Furtick’s talk was “unbelievable” and “just blasphemy” (50:00),
Rosebrough picked up on something Furtick said and re-quoted him saying,
“Did you hear that sentence? “I’ve got many things from God that money can’t buy but it started with what I had.” Money. BUY-YOUR-MIRACLE. This isn’t Christianity. This isn’t God, the Holy Spirit speaking through Steven Furtick. That’s a different spirit.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (53:40), 13/04/2012.
Chris continued and critiqued Christian McCudden, the C3 worship band and the miracle offering promo. Rosebrough exposed the scam of this as it played and summarised the event saying,
“Steven Furtick has turned into a full-blown prosperity pimp, twisting God’s word and priming you know people to give large amounts of money. He’s a now a studious student of the a prosperity pimp, known as Phil Pringle down there in Australia. This is not Christianity. You can’t buy miracles from God. In fact, scripture talks specifically about those who would try to buy miracles from God.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (1:03:52), 13/04/2012.
Chris Rosebrough highlights that Acts 8:4-24 deals with a similar issue with the C3 Presence Conference 2012. The point of Simon trying to buy the power and gifts of the Holy Spirit from Peter results in Rosebrough stating,
“These people think that they can BUY God’s gifts. Buy. BUY! Purchase God’s miracles. And what’s happened here is that Phil Pringle and Kong Hee and John Bevere and Steven Furtick- well they’ve turned themselves into- well, miracle men who can perform miracles or give miracles for a price. Just give money to them and God will somehow will be impressed. And they can purchase these wonderful gifts of God. God’s mercies and promises can’t be purchased. It shows that, well, Steven Furtick ‘n Kong Hee ‘n Phil Pringle… Well, they’re no different- NO different than Simon the Sorcerer. In fact, I think Peter’s words to Simon the Sorcerer apply perfectly to men like Phil Pringle, Steven Furtick and Kong Hee: “May your silver perish with you because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money. You have neither part nor lot in this matter for your heart is not right before God. Repent therefore of this wickedness of yours and pray to the Lord if possible the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. For you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity”. That’s right. That’s right – it applies.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (1:06:45), 13/04/2012.
Some may make the claim, “Who is Chris Rosebrough to make such a claim against such men?” Chris Rosebrough has stated that he will be reviewing the Presence Conference. At the end of his review, we encourage those judging Chris Rosebrough (who criticised these preachers), to consider these questions:
1.Who has proven to be worthy in handling the teachings of God correctly?
2.Who represents the counsel and person of our Lord Jesus accurately?
3.Who then should have a higher or more respected position to judge rightly and correctly?
So far, Pringle unfortunately has proven again and again incompetence in handling God’s Word on C3ChurchWatch (please browse the archives).
Unfortunately, Kong Hee, Steven Furtick, Phil Pringle and John Bevere have disqualified themselves as teachers of Jesus Christ with their dishonesty, bad conduct, bad teaching methods and woeful scripture handling.
If you feel lead, please pray for the C3 Church Movement and the speakers at this Presence Conference. Please also pray for the victims who may have suffered from this ungodly teaching.
Scattered through the New Testament are scriptures that explain the church is the people of God, the body of Christ. (1 Corinthians 12, Romans 16:5, Ephesians 1:22-23, 1 Peter 2:9.)
In one of his C3 leaders meetings, Pringle teaches his leaders that the church and the kingdom of God are two different things. He explains that the church is an organisation.
Pringle builds on this and teaches that church members live in the church and disciples live in the kingdom.
Can anyone explain where on earth Pringle got this teaching from? Is this is a holdover from Catholicism? What scriptures does he use to prove such absurd teaching?
An Enigmatic Messy Message
In the below video, C3 members will lay claim that the church is family; “the gateway to heaven”; “the place where Christ is”; “where his people are”; “an exhilarating experience”; “a real place where we gather together to worship”; “a God thing”; “not just a building – it’s us as people”; “His house”; “His strength”; “home”; and others, some implying that the church is either a gathering or specifically the C3 church or movement.
Could Pringle’s faulty fundamental doctrines explain why Pringle’s church members said what they said in this video?
While the video may be heavily edited, is it not concerning that the greater global body of believers isn’t recognised in this clip? Should it be concerning that Phil Pringle is teaching his leaders flawed fundamentals?
“And the deal – some people accuse that – just what I said then, saying, ‘Oah! That’s prosperity gospel’ or whetever. I’ve never preached a gospel other than about Jesus my whole life. That’s the gospel: Jesus Christ. Beginning and end. You know I got no other message then that one.” – Phil Pringle, Steven Furtick ‘Stay Behind The Guide’, http://www2.myc3church.net/videos/steven-furtick-%E2%80%98stay-behind-guide, C3 Church Oxford Falls, 15/04/2012.
It’s odd that Pringle says that he preaches “the gospel: Jesus Christ. Beginning and end. You know I got no other message then that one.”
Below is the context of the above clip. While watching the video, ask yourself these questions:
Did he preach just “no other message” but “the gospel: Jesus Christ”?
Is he preaching prosperity gospel nonsense?
Is he contradicting himself?
You decide: Is Pringle preaching Jesus or prosperity nonsense?
C3 Church Watch 