The Breakfast Network recently reported the following:
BN Special: The man who posted the God-Kong Hee video speaks to Breakfast Network
The Youtube video clip that went viral showing City Harvest Church founder Kong Hee “speaking” to God was posted by a church member who said he did it to “expose Kong and his lies”.
In an exclusive interview with Breakfast Network, he said that the 3½-minute clip he uploaded was a recording of a sermon the senior church pastor had delivered during a religious conference in Australia in April last year. He said he had obtained the clip last year from C3 Church Watch, a group that monitors the activities of a Sydney-based church, whose founder Phil Pringle is currently an advisory pastor with City Harvest Church.
According to the member, who posted the clip on Youtube under the id “anointedforworship”, Kong had made the same remarks during a church service last year to City Harvest members as well. He said he decided to make it public only now because he wanted to “show the sublimal messages embedded in the sermon and delivered through the pulpit”.
The church member declined to be named as he is still currently worshiping at City Harvest Church. He told BN: “Just to be clear, I’m posting the video not to ‘destroy the church’ but to expose the deception within carried by certain individuals who go as far as to abuse the trust and authority given to them.
“I believe people need to be warned about deception, especially when it happens in church, to protect them.”
Since the clip was uploaded on Sunday, netizens have roundly condemned Kong’s remarks in which he compared his involvement in the ongoing court case to Jesus’ suffering. Along with five other church leaders, Kong is currently on trial for embezzling millions in church funds which he allegedly used to finance his wife’s singing career. The trial began in May and is expected to resume next month.
In the clip, which was recorded about two years after investigations into the alleged charges began in 2010, Kong also claimed that God spoke to him and apologized for putting him through the trial, and that it was necessary to “bring change to your generation”.
“For the first time in eight months, God, I heard Him cry. And he said ‘My son, Kong, thank you. Thank you for going through this’,” Kong told the unseen congregation.
“‘I need you to go through this alone, so that you and City Harvest Church can be the man and the ministry I call it to be. I’m so sorry, but you need to go through this by yourself, to bring a change to your generation.’”
So far, the clip has been viewed more than 69,000 times, with 54 Likes and nearly 2,000 viewers expressing their disapproval. A parody of the clip featuring pop group ABBA was posted by another Youtube user yesterday.
Netizens have slammed the recording as it was shared on Facebook and Twitter over the last two days. Youtube user “soulsessions” said of the clip: “What a load of bullshit”. Another user, “futurelady2k”, called it “Nonsense.”
In a report posted today, Yahoo! News said it had contacted City Harvest Church for a response but had yet to receive one. Other church members interviewed said the clip may have been misinterpreted or taken out of context.
Source: By Yen Feng, BN Special: The man who posted the God-Kong Hee video speaks to Breakfast Network, http://www.breakfastnetwork.sg/?p=6564, 30/08/2013. (Accessed 06/08/2013.)
In the below quote, Pringle narcigetes 2 Samuel 30:6 to justify, explain and warn his congregation on some peculiar things. It is clear in his use of the text he seems to somehow see himself as a ‘king’ over his church and within the offline or online communities. To clarify, the New Testament does NOT teach that a pastor is a king, nor is Phil Pringle Jesus or Moses. If you have been reading the various articles on Phil Pringle here, it should be pretty clear he is clearly a false teacher and a false prophet. It is this type of person Jesus warns us against in Matthew 7.
In this article, we reveal Pringle provides some interesting information in a sermon he gave in 2011.
Pringle teaches that people in his church may “get wounded” and experience “distress” and “grief”. If it was the world persecuting the church that is understandable. However, Pringle provides the context of his warning. He says Christians in his movement could experience with other Christians (in or outside his movement) traumatic experiences that may test their loyalty to him and his movement. If it’s gossip this is understandable. However, once again – the point of controversy within the framework of his teaching evolved around him. Which leads to our next point.
Pringle reveals he has been approached by people who have said that they will “go to the newspaper”. He emphasises that he has heard people say this “many times” to him. This tells us that people HAVE expressed their concerns to him and he has rejected them, their reports or corrections. The result being, people have seemingly stated to Pringle they will “go to the newspaper” because issues were not personally resolved with Pringle.
Pringle alerts us to the fact he is aware what people are saying on Facebook and blogging communities about him and his movement. In June 2011, MyC3ChurchReview (MC3CR) was established around the time C3ChurchWatch started up. It is possible that Pringle may have been referring to the manager of the MC3CR site who also started a twitter account with about three followers. In spite of what is being said online regarding his teaching or practices, he has shown that he would rather mock them or ‘stone them’. This only goes to show Pringle refuses to be corrected or deal with certain false doctrines, his false gospel, scandals within his movement, bad behaviour or false methodologies.
Here is the transcript:
“The leader who had transformed their lives, turned them into men (feared by the entire country side)- now they want to stone him because they are in such grief because the “soul of all the people was grieved. Every man for his sons and his daughters.”
When people are upset they want to blame somebody. And, “Isn’t he the guy who led us down to do this battle down there? Let’s just stone him!”
It happens. It’s not- not uncommon. Moses. “Isn’t he the guy? Let’s stone him!” Jesus. “Let’s stone Him!” You know. These guys had a- they we’re always addicted to getting stoned. [Audience laughs] It’s like, “Let’s just stone him! Let’s just throw stones! Let’s gossip! Let’s go to the- let’s go to the newspaper!”
Argh! Golly! How many times I heard that? “I’m gonna get all the press down there and yuhyuhgruhyuh!” You think it doesn’t happen? There may even be a day when you’re tempted to think that because something happened when you want out to battle and family members or friends or yourself- you get wounded and you’re in such distress, such grief- that’s the moment where there’s deep loyalty tests.
And you find those moments in life! Everybody does! “I’m gonna Facebook them! Obladyuhyuhyuh!!!” “You wont like any of this on my blog baby! Iya-blurdludludludludle!!! Blog away!” Everybody can have a shot of being heard! I’m gonna tell the whole world, “You’ve got three followers on Twitter!” – Phil Pringle, Ps Phil Pringle: Prayer 4 – I Like People, http://www2.myc3church.net/videos/ps-phil-pringle-prayer-4-i-people, 77:01, C3 Oxford Falls, Sunday Night Service, 25/09/2011.
There is one last thing to consider. Don’t you think it’s odd that Pringle implies that he’ll only listen to you depending on how big your following is on twitter? What other standard must a Christian uphold so that Phil Pringle might listen to their concerns and act on them?
We’ll end with Mark Dever talking addressing the faulty ‘church growth’ standard and application that ministers like Pringle adhere too.
Pringle says in his book ‘Keys To Financial Excellence’,
“Some people ask me if they should tithe on the net or the gross amount. I tell them I’m the wrong person to ask if they’re looking for an easy answer. God should come first, before the government, in His claim on our finances. I’ll bet Jesus is pretty weary of being at the end of the line, waiting for our meager leftovers. He shouldn’t even be in the line! He gets the first of all our income, not the IRS, not the medical insurers, not the bills, not the kids, not the vacation, not the recreational vehicles. Our tithe comes from all the money we earn, which includes the amount we earn that goes to pay our income taxes. In simple terms, my answer is that we should tithe on our gross income, which means all of our income-whether it is gifts, benefits, dividends, earned income-anything that brings financial increase to us. One-tenth of it all belongs to God. That’s not too much to ask of a God who gave it all to us in the first place.
We must realize that tithing is only the beginning of giving. Once we have given God the tithe that belongs to Him, we can then begin to give offerings to the Lord that are above and beyond the tithe…and bring above and beyond abundance!” – Phil Pringle, Keys To Financial Excellence, 2003, pg. 81-82.
Would you say this is good financial advice from Phil Pringle? We encourage readers to compare the last paragraph above to the Vision Builders brochures.
Pringle protests that he doesn’t preach the prosperity gospel.
We’ve documented Pringle saying that Jesus died to make people rich. But did you know Pringle also teaches that Jesus was also buried and resurrected to make you rich? Phil Pringle gave this giving sermon on Resurrection Sunday 2012.
He teaches people again to sow money so they can grow money trees (1:36). Using a seed packet analogy, he contradicts the scripture Hebrews 11:1 he used at the start of his talk (2:35 and 3:07). He goes on to say,
“If He [Jesus] can beat death, he can beat the GFC. If He can beat death, He can beat any debts you’ve got in your world. All you gotta know is that it takes the sowing of a seed.” (3:56)
Pringle turns Christ’s death and resurrection into a financial principle in how to get money:
“The reason you and I are here this morning is because one seed was sown and one human life died in the ground and it’s risen again. That exact same principle applies to our giving here this morning. God has such a longing in his heart to bless you.” (4:19)
Finally, Phil Pringle encourages his members to give money as follows:
“And so right now, why don’t you and I get involved in a resurrection offering? A victorious offering! One that rises from the dead! You might say, ‘My finances are dead’. Well, here’s a moment to resurrect them. Here’s an opportunity to take the hold of a principle that God’s put in our hands.” (4:41)
This is not a biblical teaching and is completely disregarding the importance of Christ’s resurrection. Apostle Paul said,
“I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,” Philippians 3:10
Pringle clearly wants to know a Jesus and the principles of the resurrection so he can get money.
Pringle also teaches that money is Christ-like. In fact, it is probably safe to say that Pringle has great difficulty separating Jesus from filthy lucre. As his quote above teaches us: money dies, money becomes victorious and money rises from the dead.
Finally, Pringle prays to God in regards to this offering, “your ways are not our ways”. Who is Phil Pringle trying to deceive here? How is this God’s way? Does God really care about us acknowledging a principle that resurrects our finances? Or does God care about the way His Word is handled?
“You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you… After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing?” Galatians 3:1-4, NASB
“But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?” Galatians 4:9, NASB
“Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope.For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.
You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth? That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion will pay the penalty, whoever he may be.” Galatians 5:2-10, NASB
The scriptures also say,
“He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,” Titus 3:5, NASB, (Emphasis mine)
Before Pringle ‘lovingly’ bashes his critics (7:22), Pringle once again teaches people at C3 they can earn God’s grace by works. More specifically – if you give money, God gives you access to ‘grace’.
“And as you and I become givers in the kingdom of God, we’re gonna find ourselves accessing this grace. This unbelievable, inexhaustible, unending grace of God. Empowering you to have an abundance for every good work.” (6:57)
Click the time link above to see him make that specific comment or watch him say it in it’s proper context below.
You would have noticed C3 had plastered behind Phil Pringle this ‘scripture’:
“He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.” Titus 3:5
Was this orchestrated? Was this a coincidence? We can conclude it is very convenient for the scripture to be edited the way it was so Pringle could peddle this false doctrine that clearly contradicted the edited scripture. How is the moral and honest behaviour? Is this not leading people away from fundamental Christianity?
EDIT 05/05/2012: On the 4th of May, Phil Pringle twittered that his “media guys” had put something together to help with his message this coming weekend.
This is insightful for us to understand what goes on behind the scenes. It seems safe to say that Phil Pringle endorses the content in regards to what his “media guys” present in his sermons. With this in mind, it is highly likely that Phil Pringle gave them the distorted Titus 3:5 scripture that read, “He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit”.
For a friend in Sydney (a city in which I had no friends until Facebook changed all that), I am venturing into uncharted territory on this blog. C3ChurchWatch is covering the C3 Presence Conference in Sydney Australia. C3 Church is led by Phil Pringle but has a global presence. So check out my friend’s web site. Chances are, there’s an extension of the “movement” near you. (See this map for all the churches connected to C3 in Australia: http://www.c3churchglobal.com/churCch)
The conference has thankfully wrapped up for this year, though as you can see at the beginning of this video, they’re already heavily recruiting for next year’s conference. Steven Furtick was the headliner for Friday the 13th, 2012. I have heard enough of both Pastor Pringle and Pastor Furtick in the past to know that Friday the 13th is an appropriate date for pairing these two. Goodie, goodie… Can’t wait! Here we go:
0:30 Opens with a plug for the hundreds you can spend on the C3 schlock in the “Resource Center”.
0:35 Montage full of sappy music and all the “best lines” from the conference. These guys are like Woody from Toy Story where the same 10 lines come out over and over again if you just pull the string. Montage includes Phil Pringle working the crowd into frenzy so that they can feel some sort of glory cloud, or whatever, descend on them to make them sway and close their eyes and…. Ew! What is that?!
1:27 … Pulling out all the stops I see. Emaciated “Jesus” hanging on cross, live on stage in apparent agony.
3:20 Montage over. Phil Pringle on stage.
3:40 Phil and Laura (Not sure who Laura is in all this) say they’re not tired at all and ready to go for another week. I’m sure they’re just kidding Jake. Don’t have a heart attack. Doing some giveaways now to “delegates”? What are “delegates”? I don’t speak C3 I guess.
4:30 Ovation for the delegates/volunteers. Got it. Apparently part of their volunteer duties was to serve coffee and give hand massages and baklava to attendees in the TLC lounge. Teaching them about taking up the cross I guess… not!
5:28 Laura just announced 1000 already registered for next year. Rather than saying, “Cool, way to go!” Phil Pringle said, “That’s great! Let’s make it 3000 by the end of the night. What do you say?” Reminds me of my days in sales at Dell. They announce deadline for early registration end of May. Price doubles after then. And Phil is showing his great faith by announcing he is booking a bigger place.
7:23 Here is the carrot they used to get people to register today: attendees got their name in a drawing for the prizes. This first giveaway is four nights in a five-star hotel. $300 in spending money vouchers and VIP seats at next year’s conference. Yep, that’s the way to deny the flesh which wars against our spirit.
9:40 Steven Furtick takes the stage.
10:15 Immediately starts praising all the audience for their many worthy qualities. Scratch, scratch, scratch.
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions. (1 Timothy 4:3)
10:53 Gets big “Awww” from audience for confessing he missed his daughter’s first steps to be there. Should’ve stayed home, Steven. That’s time better spent.
11:33 Double-entendre. Just had to point out everything he misses being away from home and away from his wife.
12:06 Cues the audience to applaud their Pastor Phil, and his wife, Chris… the… co-… pastor…?
12:31 ”I’ve been thinking, what do I say about ______, [since] it’s the last session of the conference.” That blank ought to be filled with Jesus or God, right? No, he was meditating on what he should say about Pastor Phil. I’m curious how long before I time stamp a new subject before he stops talking about him. He’s got to pay it forward since Steven himself was honored so well by the speakers at his own Code Orange [scheduled] Revival.
13:28 Just getting started honoring Phil with a pithy saying. “God is not the God of either/or; He’s the God of both/and.” Chapter? Verse? Where is that in Scripture?
14:10 Summary so far: Pastor Phil and Chris, both “fun and focused”. I don’t recall that in Paul’s list of qualifications for overseers.
14:15 ”Spirit-led and smart”. A rare quality indeed. Got anything about Jesus? God? Bible? Almost 15 minutes in here.
15:00 Still sucking up to Phil. Now he’s “brilliant”, but not in the underwhelming Aussie sense. Makes joke about the Australian overuse of “brilliant”. Phil has to keep this in mind later as you’ll see at the end.
15:50 Says “Let’s get to it” and grabs Bible. Any bets on how long it takes to read from it?
16:15 Says he prayed for God to “lead him to the message” simultaneously with putting Bible back down. Ironic…
16:40 Moves away from Bible to little book of notes to announce title of message: “The Most Encouraging Message You’ve Never Heard.”
17:08 Segues back somehow to flattering Phil as well Bishop Dale Bronner (Word/Faith heretic), whom I predict he is about to quote.
17:30 ”Opening to Matthew 11:1-11″ he says… He’s reaching for the Bible and….
17:40 Fail. Now telling the audience “The Lord wants to give someone the courage to act.” That’s definitely not in Matthew 11.
17:50 Instructing on how to tell you’ve caught a vision. Is there a fever involved?
18:00 Vision – Action = Daydream. Got it. Now Matthew 11?
18:18 Reading Matthew 11 about John the Baptist in prison, asking “Are you the One?” Doesn’t even blink before making the passage about everyone there in Sydney and their “disappointed expectations.”
20:00 Got to give Pastor Furtick props. He catches that Jesus had announced earlier in Matthew that he was to fulfill the prophecy that he would “set prisoners free” and that John may have been tempted to doubt since that wasn’t happening for him. Not many people bring that up.
20:30 He thought Shawshank Redemption was a warm and endearing picture of prison?! Has he seen the movie?
21:00 Stand-up Comic Interlude (From here forward to be cited as SUCI): “Some of you are sitting next to your disappointed expectation.” Already had one regarding the use of “brilliant” in Australia and regarding missing his wife. So the SUCI count is up to three.
21:38 Talking about Steven’s life now.
22:15 SUCI #4, but sort of fell flat. Win some, lose some.
22:45 SUCI #5
23:00 Segue from Steven’s life to everyone else in audience now. Apparently we’ve all asked the question, “Is this it?” And you always need someone to encourage you.
23:45 First instance of “Turn to someone and say…”
23:50 Rest of passage he ends with “no one greater than John the Baptist” (and mumbles quickly yethteonewhoisleastinthekingdomofheavenisgreaterhthanhe…). Pastor Furtick says Jesus was giving John affirmation and encouragement. Strange. Neither John nor his disciples were even there to hear that. Talk about squishing a passage into a mold to fit your message.
25:50 Clears up that John’s disciples nor John were there. Where’s he going with this?
26:16 Seriously?? “It’s quite possible that Jesus has been talking about you… behind your back.” And may I say that’s some mighty wild speculation you’ve got going on there. Chapter? Verse? Scratch, scratch those itching ears.
26:55 ”Now why would he do that?” So now we’re going to speculate in order to find the possible reason for the fact you already arrived at by speculation. Brilliant. (See what a flexible word that is?)
28:00 ”Here’s my theory.” Okay, that’s not what you’re supposed to preach. [next breath] “1 Corinthians 2:5 says our faith shouldn’t rest in men’s wisdom but in God’s power… Maybe Jesus wanted John’s faith not to rest on how good John was doing, but in how good Jesus was.” Well, yes, that’s certainly true. Why did you say “maybe”? And what does this have to do with God talking behind our backs, and doesn’t obsessing about whether he is or not defeat Pastor Furtick’s own point he’s trying to make now about getting our eyes off of ourselves?
28:28 So much for the brief turn in the right direction. He shifts back… to talking about Steven Furtick. “There have been times in my life…”
29:00 ”God takes away affirmation to take us to a place of deeper affirmation in the Spirit.” Pastor Furtick, how in the world are you extracting this from John 11? Audience loves it though. Scratch, scratch, scratch.
29:50 ”Even though we don’t get to hear everything that Jesus said about John [because] this is a summary.” Where does it say this is a summary? “He says many more things about John. There’s a further discourse in Matthew 11.” (And of course he will not read it. Can’t blame Steven. I don’t think I’ve heard any two people interpret that passage that follows in the same manner. It’s a difficult passage and I don’t blame him for not wanting to tackle it, but a good pastor at least attempts it. Not worth a federal case though.)
30:00 Steven is going to share three affirmative statements that he believes God might be saying behind your back. How in the world does it help me to speculate on what God might be saying behind my back? Wouldn’t it be wise to focus on what we know he already said to me in his Word?!
30:24 ”I felt like the Lord put on my heart to tell somebody today.” Oh now, it’s the Holy Ghost answering machine. God is having trouble getting through to people so he has enlisted the help of Steven Furtick.
30:38 Yikes: “Hear the Word of the Lord; God wanted me to tell somebody…” That’s a bold statement
30:44 Affirmation #1: “You’re doing better than you think you are.” (Please note in link to Pooh bear quote below that I personally think two of these three points are inspired more by Pooh than the Bible.) In Romans 12:3, am I not exhorted not to think of myself more highly than I ought but instead with sober judgment? 2 Corinthians 4:4 says that the god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers. Are you saying that our blindness is concerning not being able to see how good we are? But I guess I’d better make a way to get this to jibe with the rest of my Bible, because we’re adding a new book. Steven said this is the “Word of the Lord”.
31:35 SUCI #6
31:50 ”But then you’ve got to tap into that place, when Jesus says to John…” So when I am feeling poorly about my own performance, I need to tap into what Jesus said about John? Wow, this is twisted logic. He’s saying that Jesus had a good reason for not saying these things to John’s face, but is encouraging us to imagine Jesus is saying them about us? So what he’s arguing would have produced inordinate pride in John, we’re somehow going to handle better? And how do you know that those to whom you speak are “doing better than they think”? What if I’m a complete screw up? What if I’m a heretic? What if I’m a serial killer? You have thousands, probably millions, watching this conference. Odds are that you are proclaiming this to some sociopaths of the highest order!
32:30 Long general string of general affirmations proclaiming how very wonderful everyone is in the room. Everyone’s now applauding. Scratch, scratch, scratch. And apparently, if you say it loud enough, it really makes it true.
33:00 Back to Steven’s life. “Pastor Mickey” did better than he thinks because he poured into Stephen when Steven was young and now Mickey is flying all over the world vicariously through Steven Furtick. I don’t know if Pastor Mickey’s going to be bragging about that one on Judgment Day.
34:05 Called the audience a crowd of “world-changers”. Scratch, scratch, scratch.
33:22 SUCI #7 about teenagers being demon-possessed. I have a 14-year-old son and admit that’s actually kind of funny.
33:55 ”Find somebody and touch them and tell them, ‘You’re doing better than you think you are.’” There. My beagle is sleeping at my feet. I just told her. She’s duly affirmed and looks truly peaceful. But that’s actually is what she always looks like. Oh well. Don’t try this on a human, folks. You’ll do more damage than you think you will.
35:00 Getting loud and telling them to “clap by faith”. Really?
35:38 ”I get to preach a lot of places. You’re special!” Really, guys, tell me you’re not going to fall for that, are you? Now moving on to tell Phil Pringle how awesome his church is.
36:30 ”Please receive that from my heart.” He’s speaking of the encouragement, “You’re doing better than you think you are.” So is that from God or from your heart? Which is it? Then quotes but does not give reference. “It’s God’s kindness that leads you to repentance.” Tell us about that kindness please. Why is God so kind? How do we know it? Hint, you find it all in the Bible and it has nothing to do with self-affirmation but is seen on the cross, which actually only affirms our lost state and our need to be saved from our sins.
36:50 Affirmation #2: “You matter more than you think you do.” Scratch, scratch, scratch.
37:00 ”John felt completely discarded. I’m using a little bit of my imagination.” At least you admit it. But is that what you’re called to do as a pastor, to preach your imagination? Immediately also says, “Maybe, I’m reading a little too much into the text.” Yeeeeees. “That’s somebody in here [in the audience].” Bingo. You’ve just arrived at where you’re reading too much into the text.
37:25 Now talking about Steven’s childhood. Trading card story.
39:00 ”It took someone who knew the value to retrieve something that I’d given away too easily. Some of you are giving up on yourself too easily.” My response is only found a few verses before where he started tonight:
“And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.” (Matthew 10:38, 39)
39:20 Now talking about our need to go into the “enemy’s camp to retrieve what you gave away too easily”. Wow, this is dangerous ground. Doesn’t this sound a lot like what Jesus did for us already? Where is he getting this from this passage?!
39:28 Assertion after assertion: “You can tell the value of something by the price that was paid for it.” Doesn’t that contradict the story he just told about the baseball cards. Steven didn’t pay much for them, thus disguising the value. And in our case, we are given value by the price paid for us on the Cross, but it doesn’t prove that we were valuable in the first place.
39:38 Steven just said Jesus’ blood was shed for us to prove our worth. /sigh/ Chapter? Verse? Got anything about our sin and the need for atonement?
39:45 ”You have infinite potential, in Jesus name!” Why does everyone keep tagging that onto the end of assertions as if it makes it better? It only makes it more blasphemous.
40:00 Launching into Code Orange testimonial of some sort; a horrible, sad story about boy who died in car accident while his parents were at revival. Ugh, It’s sounds like he turned that poor boy’s funeral into a Steven Furtick pep rally. He even made someone else’s funeral about him. Ick.
41:17 ”Do you want to know what I texted?” Actually, no. Can you tell us about the text in that beautiful leather-bound tome sitting useless on the podium there?
41:30 Story about God talking to him again. Put the bulletin from the funeral into the rocks in the valley where Joshua told the sun to stand still. Interesting. Take it from someone who knows. Pastor Furtick is carrying a whole lot of guilt over the fact that his parents were at his revival and not with their boy when he was killed in a car wreck. He’s acting like someone desperately trying to make some restitution. I know what it’s like to carry misplaced guilt over the death of a child and this man has it in spades. Pray for Pastor Furtick. I keep seeing signs of his heart softening in this sermon. I can’t put my finger on it, but…. something is just a bit different.
42:00 Oh dear, he is apparently trying to convince the parents that their son’s death “counted for something” and did make a difference, because people are starting Bible studies and such because of him. I have some personal experience with families who have lost children and this approach is usually not taken well. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure they don’t want to think God took their son to accomplish some purpose of his. But even if they did, it’s still probably not what they want to hear right after he dies. I understand what he’s trying to do, but I think it could be misguided.
And on a different note, he’s trying to comfort the audience with: “you matter so much more than you think you do.” (Throwing this in for free, but I found that I found a lot of peace when I learned that I matter less than I thought I did. It’s a comfort to know that God is big enough to keep me from screwing everything up. Just sayin’.)
43:00 ”I’m not leaving you [John] in that prison because I’ve forsaken you. I’m leaving you in that prison because you’re so strong; you’re so mighty!” May I point out the obvious here? Jesus left John in that prison because his purpose was not to free people in physical prisons but to free us from our Sin. He did not come to conquer the romans or Herod. He came to conquer death.
43:11 Again, he’s turning it around again to apply it to everyone listening to say that they are exactly like John the Baptist.
43:40 Affirmation (but not really) #3: “It’s less about you than you think it is.” Hmmmmmmm… Is he trying to get the Matt Chandler monkey off his back now? Trying to prove he doesn’t think the Bible is about himself?
Wow, now he’s saying he had to throw that third point in there or you’ll “take this message the wrong way” and is taking the time to mock his first two points. This is one weird schizoid sermon!
44:12 ”He must become greater; I must become less…” Yes… Yes…
44:20 ”Want you to leave this conference on affirmation overload, but we want it to be the right kind of affirmation, otherwise it will backfire.” Like giving ammunition to your critics?
44:45 Now quoting Hebrews 12: “Consider Jesus, who endured such hostility from sinners.” Encouraging the audience to step back and see there’s a bigger picture than your immediate surroundings.
45:00 ”I’ll bet John got his affirmation when he saw him face to face,” says Pastor Furtick. You don’t have to speculate there, Steven. We know that the righteous will be told “Well done, my good and faithful servant.” (Matthew 25:21)
45:14 ”The Lord wanted me to tell you…” Again with the Holy Spirit answering machine! The Lord has already told you to proclaim his Word! You’re not doing that, so it’s hard for me to believe that he’s taking the time to speak to you personally when you’re ignoring what he’s already clearly commanded you: “Preach the Word, in season and out.” (2 Timothy 4:2)
45:40 ”Your dream is rotting in prison.” /gasp!/ Not that!
46:00 ”God can do anything in your life.”
46:07 Obligatory sports analogy. Oh my goodness. Is he going to make Jesus, our advocate, the referee challenging the ruling on the field? That’s a terrible analogy.
47:25 ”This is going to be a turning point in someone’s life right now.” Maybe so, but for the better?
47:53 ”Sometimes the official says” (after coaching audience that they need to get ready to get real loud and emotional soon “we’re going to take it through the roof in a second”.) [dramatically] “Upon… further… review… [cue sappy music] the ruling on the field is overturned.” Our situation is only hopeless because we’re looking at it from the wrong angle. Really?! That is NOT the solution for our lost condition proposed by the Bible. The truth is, we are to agree with God that it is hopeless and cry for mercy! Wow…
49:16 ”I believe the divine verdict for somebody tonight is, ‘Upon… further… review’” [music and audience getting louder and louder, and so is Pastor Furtick of course.]
49:30 Whipping up crowd. Band getting louder. Girl in band jumping up and down with arms up in the air, reminding me of high school pep rallies.
49:57 ”In His Presence, anything is possible!” Chapter? Verse? Crowd now “shouting to God with a voice of triumph.” What are they triumphing over and based on what?
50:11 Starts praying, sort of. Thanking him for all the encouragement he’s brought through the message tonight. His eyes are going in the exact same places they were when he was addressing the crowd. Who is he really talking to? Now asserting what God’s voice is telling them right now, and not quoting from God’s Word…
50:40 Wants to pray for specific people. “If you know God is speaking this message specifically to you… shoot your hand in the air and let me pray for you.” What do you want to bet these are going to get carefully counted as people making decisions for Jesus to boost those stats? And upon what are they basing their belief that God is speaking this message to them? Their gut feeling?
51:05 Making “positive confession” over the people with hands raised via recap of three points of message.
51:29 No, here’s the stats they’ll count. He told them to put their hands down and now he wants to pray for those who need a “brand new start with Jesus Christ.” I’ve heard this “gospel presentation” from Pastor Furtick before. The false gospel of the “God of the fresh start, of the second chance.”
52:00 ”Allow me the privilege me pray with you to begin a relationship with Jesus Christ. This is the gospel: that He lived the life you couldn’t live; He was sinless. He died the death you should have died.” (Wow, is he going to totally land on his feet here?) “They crucified him. The greatest agony he suffered on the cross; it was not the scourging; it was not the whip. All of that was terrible. It was the separation from his heavenly Father that he had to experience when he said, as we heard this week, ‘My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me?’ When he prayed that, he was also making an announcement that because he was forsaken for you, you don’t have to be forsaken ever by your heavenly Father.”
(I have to insert here that this falls short. He did mention that Jesus was sinless but was not clear the he was forsaken because of taking our Sin upon himself and that’s why he was forsaken, because of our sin. And at this point, we don’t even know what a sin is, because the Law hasn’t been preached. As far as we know at this point, a sin is letting our dream rot in prison or not believing God is talking behind our back or something. We have no idea.)
“There’s a divine reunion, and the access to that is by faith, because here’s what happened: when he rose again on the third day (assuming the crowd knows this I guess) there’s a literal bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. It happened. He’s taken into heaven. Now he sits at the right hand of God.” (Covering the apostles creed, but I’ll bet he doesn’t get to the next part, that he will come again to judge the living and the dead.)
“His grace is available to anyone who will repent and believe. That’s it.” (Repent… from… what?! It’s like you’ve given someone the news the Governor commuted their death sentence and they didn’t even know they’d been convicted of a crime!) “To completely trust him with your life, place your faith in him.” No, placing your faith in him is not so much “trusting him with your life” as trust in His life, death and resurrection. I am not capable of perfectly trusting God with my life.
“By Grace you are Saved” (Pulled from context) “If you know you are not in a right relationship with the Lord tonight…” How would they know that? Y’all have done everything there at C3 to make sure that they feel “in tune with God” complete with altered state of consciousness that probably results from the loud repetitive music and rhythmic mantras Furtick cheered from the stage.
Gives instructions for magic prayer to bring them in right relationship with God, of course with “heads bowed, eyes closed” or the prayer won’t work I guess because that’s always part of the procedure. Instructing everyone to pray it out loud together, I guess so those who really need to pray it won’t be embarrassed or so maybe someone will accidentally get saved. Says this prayer will cause them to saved and cleansed and forgiven if they want to give their lives to Jesus Christ. Problem, the Bible says Jesus gave his life for us, not the other way around. And… Salvation, cleansing and forgiveness come, according to God’s Word, from baptism, receiving his body and blood through the Lord’s Supper, and through the proclamation of the gospel:
Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins…” (Acts 22:16)
“For this is the blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.” (Matthew 26:28)
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes… (Romans 1:16)
54:00 Steven Furtick’s “Sinner’s Prayer”: “Heavenly Father, I come to you now. I confess that I’m a sinner. I need a Savior. I believe you died for me Jesus. I confess you rose again. I ask you now to give me new life. Change my heart. I want to follow you. I want to be like you.”
55:00 Asking crowd to shoot their hand in the air on the count of three (while eyes are still closed) to say they prayed that prayer. Saying he’s not trying to emotionally manipulate. Asks those with hands up to come forward to… altar? There’s an altar? I just see a stage. No manipulation? Furtick keeps prompting and flattering those who come forward for their boldness and the music is continuing to swell.
56:00 ”Come on, come on, run to this altar! Run to Jesus!”
57:05 Starts addressing people who have come forward regarding their “decision” and picks up Bible and tucks under arm. Interesting. Maybe he is just preparing for his exit of the stage. But he takes his Bible. Where’s his tablet he was using? I think that’s still on stage.
58:25 ”Repeat after me: I am a new creation in Jesus Christ; I am a new Creation in Jesus Christ. Hallelujah!” /band swells again/
58:38 Phil Pringle back on stage. Praying for God to fill everyone with the Holy Spirit and with peace and to let them have “an experience that is undeniable”. Yeah, they’ll at least have an experience. And we know that these guys teach you that no one can argue with your “experience”. Pastor Phil doing the thing with the low-talking, forcing everyone’s attention to be fixed on him because they have to strain to hear. Getting ready for a big crescendo. Keeps throwing out buzz words in rhythmic, mesmerizing way:
“Holy Spirit… the Anointing… Power of God from on High… Fills hearts…. And Changes worlds… in Jesus’ name” You can feel… yourself getting… sleepy and… very suggestible. Then says gently, “Hey guys, look this way.” (Still in gentle tone) This totally reminds me of when a hypnotist transitions from bringing the person into the altered state of consciousness to carefully placing whatever suggestion is needed. It will be very interesting to see what Phil Pringle chooses to say next:
Fixed his attention on a particular teen crying next to stage and asking, still rhythmically, why he’s crying. He just wants to be happy. He starts naming, still rhythmically, all the people that are near the stage that love him and that “we all love you. You matter more than you think.” Again addressing another teen. Boy this guy is good. I am mesmerized and I can’t stand the guy.
1:00 Phil Pringle starts singing Beatle’s song for no reason whatsoever, other than the kid saying he’s 17 and the age mentioned in the Beatle’s song is 17. Again, with a soft mesmerizing voice. Then talks to another teen. Why is he picking all the teens? Is that all that came forward? Telling him to stick to his decision, don’t let his friends drag him of. “You’re strong. A very powerful young man.” Mesmerizing, mesmerizing. I’m blissed out just listening to this. The dude freaks me out. How many more minutes of this? I might be catching a plane to Sidney if I’m not careful. Won’t bore you, more of the same. Only addresses the young people that came forward. “Do you feel different after praying that prayer? How do you feel? You feel incredible?! There’s a cartoon called The Incredibles, isn’t there?” How hip and relevant for you to know that, Phil. “They’re powerful. You’re more powerful.” And this imitator of C.S. Lewis’ green witch continued to mesmerize them. We need the stench of Puddleglum’s burning flesh to wake us up here. Wow.
Now flattering a 12-year-old saying he thought he was 18. “Are you a good boy? … Isn’t that nice… you look like a good boy. God’s proud of you. He’s very happy you’re out here tonight.” Wow. He’s now telling them about the “born-again motor” that’s been put inside of them to empower them to do all the things that God wants them to do. Wow, that’s a new one. Haven’t heard that one before.
1:05:25 Fail! Phil Pringle just calls one of his staff members by the wrong name when he calls her up on stage to tell everyone up front to follow her out. Then spends time flattering her to make up for the fact that he forgot her name. She seems to swallow it, laps it up. Ugh!
1:07:15 Band whipping things up again. Crowd goes while. Phil thanks crowd and tells them they’re “stellar”. He pauses before “stellar” because he probably wants to avoid “brilliant” since Steven Furtick so perceptively pointed out that that word has little meaning in Australia. So he pauses before “amazing” too. Probably a little irritated that Steven narrowed his already limited vocabulary of flattery, which he’s doing now, continuing to flatter the crowd. Scratch, scratch, scratch. Just announced a painting (found out later Phil Pringle is selling his own paintings. People ting they’re anointed or something.) is up to $30,000 (silent auction?), announced by Laura. Nice. So glad y’all are making even more money than you’ve already raked in tonight. Talking up next year’s conference, register now. Brags about 21-day fast they went on before this conference.
Okay, gladly that’s all. But I should insert one last disturbing note. I was informed by my friend Mr. Jake Elliot that this particular sermon was actually the bright spot in the whole conference. It was downright orthodox in comparison with what the other speakers put out there the rest of the week. And here is the Pooh Bear Clip I promised. I couldn’t help but be thinking of this particular clip and wondering if this is more where Steven Furtick got the inspiration for this sermon, more so than the Bible.
Chris Rosebrough has once again hit the airwaves on ‘Pirate Christian Radio’, slamming the behaviour of Phil Pringle and Steven Furtick at Presence Conference 2012. Listen to him at ‘Fighting For The Faith’ to critique Steven Furtick pulpit pimping at Presence Conference (12/04/2012) below:
• LCMS Seminary Prof Promotes Lectio Divina
• The Church’s Most Dangerous Enemies
• Steven Furtick Prosperity Pimps for Phil Pringle at Presence 2012
• Good Easter Sermon by Jonathan Hunt
Rosebrough states at the beginning of his program,
“… I’m going to be playing the audio from a video segment where they are- where Phil Pringle is basically getting people geared up to give for a miracle offering. Give money and you’ll receive a miracle. It’s – I mean it is- so, so blatantly obvious and just terrible as to how they are, you know, fleecing the people attending the Presence Conference! And using God as the pretense for it. It’s- it’s- uh-ah-ih- I don’t even want to say it borders on criminal. I think it’s flat-out criminal. I can’t see that this is not a crime in the Kingdom of God, what these men are doing. Steven Furtick and Phil Pringle, both.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (8:20), 13/04/2012.
When Furtick says at 28:25 on Rosebrough’s show, that Elisha tells the widow in 2Kings 4 to give, Rosebrough responded,
“No! Elisha did NOT tell her to give. Not one red cent. He just lied and blasphemed the name of the one-true God by mis-using his Word, to pimp this people for money.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (48:30), 13/04/2012.
Rosebrough correctly points out that Elisha asked the woman what was in her house. She said she had the oil. But Rosebrough points that she never gave that oil to Elisha. Instead he instructs her to keep the oil, get large containers and start filling. She was blessed with a miracle. A gift of grace. She did not give to get.
Rosebrough makes this claim about Steven Furtick,
“Steven Furtick is prosperity pimping here, priming the financial pump for Phil Pringle and the Presence Conference. And he’s doing it by mangling God’s Word.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (46:48), 13/04/2012.
In critiquing Steven Furtick’s offering talk, Chris Rosebrough stated that Furtick’s talk was “unbelievable” and “just blasphemy” (50:00),
Rosebrough picked up on something Furtick said and re-quoted him saying,
“Did you hear that sentence? “I’ve got many things from God that money can’t buy but it started with what I had.” Money. BUY-YOUR-MIRACLE. This isn’t Christianity. This isn’t God, the Holy Spirit speaking through Steven Furtick. That’s a different spirit.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (53:40), 13/04/2012.
Chris continued and critiqued Christian McCudden, the C3 worship band and the miracle offering promo. Rosebrough exposed the scam of this as it played and summarised the event saying,
“Steven Furtick has turned into a full-blown prosperity pimp, twisting God’s word and priming you know people to give large amounts of money. He’s a now a studious student of the a prosperity pimp, known as Phil Pringle down there in Australia. This is not Christianity. You can’t buy miracles from God. In fact, scripture talks specifically about those who would try to buy miracles from God.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (1:03:52), 13/04/2012.
Chris Rosebrough highlights that Acts 8:4-24 deals with a similar issue with the C3 Presence Conference 2012. The point of Simon trying to buy the power and gifts of the Holy Spirit from Peter results in Rosebrough stating,
“These people think that they can BUY God’s gifts. Buy. BUY! Purchase God’s miracles. And what’s happened here is that Phil Pringle and Kong Hee and John Bevere and Steven Furtick- well they’ve turned themselves into- well, miracle men who can perform miracles or give miracles for a price. Just give money to them and God will somehow will be impressed. And they can purchase these wonderful gifts of God. God’s mercies and promises can’t be purchased. It shows that, well, Steven Furtick ‘n Kong Hee ‘n Phil Pringle… Well, they’re no different- NO different than Simon the Sorcerer. In fact, I think Peter’s words to Simon the Sorcerer apply perfectly to men like Phil Pringle, Steven Furtick and Kong Hee: “May your silver perish with you because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money. You have neither part nor lot in this matter for your heart is not right before God. Repent therefore of this wickedness of yours and pray to the Lord if possible the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. For you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity”. That’s right. That’s right – it applies.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (1:06:45), 13/04/2012.
Some may make the claim, “Who is Chris Rosebrough to make such a claim against such men?” Chris Rosebrough has stated that he will be reviewing the Presence Conference. At the end of his review, we encourage those judging Chris Rosebrough (who criticised these preachers), to consider these questions:
1.Who has proven to be worthy in handling the teachings of God correctly?
2.Who represents the counsel and person of our Lord Jesus accurately?
3.Who then should have a higher or more respected position to judge rightly and correctly?
So far, Pringle unfortunately has proven again and again incompetence in handling God’s Word on C3ChurchWatch (please browse the archives).
Unfortunately, Kong Hee, Steven Furtick, Phil Pringle and John Bevere have disqualified themselves as teachers of Jesus Christ with their dishonesty, bad conduct, bad teaching methods and woeful scripture handling.
If you feel lead, please pray for the C3 Church Movement and the speakers at this Presence Conference. Please also pray for the victims who may have suffered from this ungodly teaching.
Scattered through the New Testament are scriptures that explain the church is the people of God, the body of Christ. (1 Corinthians 12, Romans 16:5, Ephesians 1:22-23, 1 Peter 2:9.)
In one of his C3 leaders meetings, Pringle teaches his leaders that the church and the kingdom of God are two different things. He explains that the church is an organisation.
Pringle builds on this and teaches that church members live in the church and disciples live in the kingdom.
Can anyone explain where on earth Pringle got this teaching from? Is this is a holdover from Catholicism? What scriptures does he use to prove such absurd teaching?
An Enigmatic Messy Message
In the below video, C3 members will lay claim that the church is family; “the gateway to heaven”; “the place where Christ is”; “where his people are”; “an exhilarating experience”; “a real place where we gather together to worship”; “a God thing”; “not just a building – it’s us as people”; “His house”; “His strength”; “home”; and others, some implying that the church is either a gathering or specifically the C3 church or movement.
Could Pringle’s faulty fundamental doctrines explain why Pringle’s church members said what they said in this video?
While the video may be heavily edited, is it not concerning that the greater global body of believers isn’t recognised in this clip? Should it be concerning that Phil Pringle is teaching his leaders flawed fundamentals?
