Pastor Nicholas Gervase Charmley and Chris Rosebrough weigh in on a bizarre sermon by Mark Kelsey. The sermon is titled, “The “I’m an Idiot” Revelation”.
In the past, Phil Pringle has stressed in leadership gatherings that he doesn’t want intellectual people in his movement. (He calls them “intellectual idiots”.)
Instead, Phil Pringle wants passionate people in his movement who can be shamed into worship, conform to his emotionally manipulated environments and groomed through crowd control methods. Read and watch the article below:
If you browse the articles on C3 Church Watch, you will be quick to discover how these emotionally controlled environments and dishonest giving sermons trick people into thinking they are giving money to God.
With the above information in mind, Mark Kelsey in the below sermon further convinces people that they should get the idiot revelation to keep them going to C3 church. You can hear Chris Rosebrough review this sermon by Mark Kelsey here:
NOVEMBER 16, 2012
CREFLO DOLLAR AND FACEBOOK CURSES
• Email
• Stylish Adult Baptism
• Creflo Dollar and Facebook Curses
• Franklin Graham Shocked by Cult Reference to Mormonism on BGEA Site
• Sermon Review The “I’m an Idiot” Revelation by Mark Kelsey, C3, Oxford Falls, Australia
Source: CREFLO DOLLAR AND FACEBOOK CURSES, Fighting For The Faith, http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2012/11/creflo-dollar-and-facebook-curses.html, 16/02/2012. (Accessed 02/02/2013.)
To show how absurd the theological teachings are of Mark Kelsey Mark said this:
“God’s aim for you and I is the glory of God. It’s not salvation. His aim for you is not salvation. Most Christians do not understand this. God’s aim for you is not salvation. Salvation is a means to an end. His aim for you is to restore you to His original intention, for you. He has an image of you that is so glorious. So His aim is that, ok. So there’s the aim: the glorious version of you. The ‘I’m no longer an idiot’ version of you.” – Mark Kelsey, Mark Kelsey – The I’m An Idiot! Revelation (Part 3 of 4), 3:15, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5-cHpfqTLQ, Uploaded by changefilm on Nov 28, 2008. (Accessed 16/11/2012.)
Gervase Charmley had this to say about Mark Kelsey’s comment:
“It has been said that “A difference that makes no difference is no difference at all”, and frankly it seems to me that is what is going on here. The problem seems to be that he has some idea of what “salvation” is that comes short of the fullness of it, and so he can say in effect “God’s aim for us as Christians is not salvation, but salvation”. Which makes no sense. It’s incoherent, that’s my thought on this.” – G.N. Charmley, 15/11/2012.
You can watch the original sermon here on youtube.
Some people still may be skeptical about Pringle’s connections to New Thought/Occult influences. Here is another article that explores these associations. Pringle gets a casual mention alongside other problematic preachers and non-Christian teachers.
We have Herescope’s permission to reproduce this article.
Herescope writes,
“CHUCK NORRIS
HIS BELIEFS, HIS ASSOCIATIONS, HIS MISSION
By Gaylene Goodroad
When I finished my online E-booklet, My Life in “The Way”, exposing the Buddhist/Taoist/New Age roots of the martial arts,[1] I also documented the inseparable relationship to its Western point man, Chuck Norris.[2] Norris is a martial artist, actor, author, political activist—and professing Christian—which necessitates the need for discerning Christians influenced by his celebrity to weigh his beliefs, his associations, and his mission with the Bible.
CHUCK NORRIS: HIS BELIEFS
Now I urge you, brethren, keep your eye on those who cause dissensions and hindrances contrary to the teaching which you learned, and turn away from them
(Rom. 16:17)
As I documented in My Life in “The Way”, Mr. Norris kept his 1988 autobiography, The Secret of Inner Strength: My Story, very secular. While there is no mention of a Christian conversion or belief in the Lord Jesus Christ, he admits to being influenced by New Thought/Human Potential gurus, Napoleon Hill and Dr. Joseph Murphy.[3] Mr. Norris routinely utilizes and affirms the use of visualization techniques throughout his book while recounting famous karate matches with other notable martial artists. Commenting on this practice I wrote:
Much could be said concerning the occult/metaphysical nature of the human potential movement, but suffice it to say, it is NOT Christian. Napoleon Hill was given his formula of success—the “Supreme Secret”—from unseen visitors on the astral plane calling themselves “The Venerable Brotherhood of Ancient India.” They taught Hill the power of visualization and his famous maxim, “Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve.” His most popular book, Think and Grow Rich, influenced millions. This demonic philosophy is behind such motivational teachings of the late Norman Vincent Peale, Robert Schuller, and Rhonda Byrne, author of The Secret.[4]
With prompting and inspiration from his second wife, Gena,[5] Norris wrote a second “Christian” autobiography, Against All Odds, in 2004. In it, Mr. Norris says that he trusted Christ as his Savior at age 12 (sometime in 1952), while making a commitment to Him sometime later after going forward at a Billy Graham Crusade.[6] Despite this public profession of faith, Mr. Norris fails to recant neither his New Thought/Mind-Science techniques nor the core philosophies of the martial arts—teachings and practices that are completely incompatible with true Christianity.[7] Also troubling is an underlying “might makes right” attitude inherent in the fighting arts. On page 30, Mr. Norris records this story:
The ambushers beat him up badly [an Air Force policeman] and robbed him. [He] was a black belt in tang soo do. When the slicky boys found this out, they were so horrified at the potential reprisal they might suffer, they printed an apology in the local paper. It did them no good. When somebody messes with one black belt, he or she is challenging the whole organization. One of our members tracked down several of the attackers. He killed one and injured two. The police arrested him, and he was sentenced to three years in prison. He was back out on the street in two weeks. The lesson was clear: Mess with one member of our group, and your messing with all.[8]
The Bible says that murder is wrong and that vengeance belongs to the LORD.[9]
On the contrary, Mr. Norris has retained this unbiblical mixture of beliefs and practices and has made them a primary part of his life’s work. I documented his most disturbing belief (and teaching) in my E-booklet:
Forty-four years after his professed conversion, and in between his two autobiographies, Chuck Norris published another book in 1996 entitled: The Secret Power Within: Zen Solutions to Real Problems. This book is a real problem for Christians. The reader discovers the “secret power within” on pages 127-130: “Ki: The Universal Power.” “The fact is that everyone has ki, which is really little more than a technique of visualization allowing one to utilize the internal energy that we all have and letting it flow through the body…”[10]
On page 36 of My Life in “The Way”, I made this observation followed by a probing question:
By now, the Christian reader is rightfully confused regarding the source of Mr. Norris’ “secret inner strength,” and “secret power within.” Has he made the same deleterious leap as Michael Chen and Rev. Jordan in equating the impersonal “ki” force (kundalini power) with the Holy Spirit of the Living God—the third person of the triune godhead? Has he unwittingly become a de facto false teacher of Far Eastern mysticism in woolen garb like this author did before fully repenting—and renouncing the martial arts? Let the evidence speak.
CHUCK NORRIS: HIS ASSOCIATIONS
For there must also be factions among you, in order that those who are approved may have become evident among you
(1 Cor. 11:19)
It has already been established that Mr. Norris’ faith is a heady mix of Christianity, New Thought and Zen Buddhism. A closer inspection reveals that his peculiar brand of Christianity is strictly of the charismatic Word-Faith variety. He has been a motivational speaker for T.D. Jakes Ministries and the Trinity Broadcasting Network (TBN),[11] as well as Ed Cole Ministries. He will be a featured speaker at the 2010 Lion’s Roar Global Men’s Summit in Dallas in November,[12] a ministry of the Christian Men’s Network (CMN) begun by the late Cole.[13] Dr. Cole was nurtured under the ministry of Aimee Semple McPherson, becoming an Assemblies of God pastor within two years of his conversion.[14] He later became a men’s motivational lecturer and the inspiration for Promise Keepers.[15] Cole has mentored many influential men including Bill McCartney, John Maxwell, Pat Robertson, Kenneth Copeland, Oliver North, Kong Hee, Sunday Adelaja… and Chuck Norris.[16] Adelaja, a key New Apostolic Reformation (NAR) apostle and 7 Mountain/Sphere Mandate promoter, has led teaching seminars with Norris, ex-New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani and Mel Gibson.[17] Among many Word-Faith notables, Norris will share the Lion’s Roar Summit platform with Mike Hayes, Kong Hee, Brian Houston, Jack Hayford, Eddie Long, Phil Pringle, and Jim Garlow,[18] Christian right activist and chair of Newt Gingrich’s ReAL (Renewing American Leadership).[19]
Norris endorsed Joel Osteen’s 2004 book, Your Best Life Now,[20] and in the introduction to his latest book, Black Belt Patriotism, Mr. Norris commends Rick Warren’s Purpose Driven Life.[21] Mr. Norris received an honorary doctorate from Liberty University in 2008,[22] the same school that hosted the “Awakening 2010 Conference” in April that featured prominent Dominionists,[23] and that invited Mormon Glenn Beck to deliver its 2010 Commencement Address.[24]
Chuck Norris, along with his wife Gena, is also on the Board of Directors of the National Council on Bible Curriculum in Public Schools (NCBCPS),[25] which appears to be a commendable organization until a closer examination is made. The vice president of this council is (Ret.) Col. Jim Ammerman, an apostle in C. Peter Wagner’s International Coalition of Apostles (ICA), a component of the New Apostolic Reformation (NAR), and personal friend to John Hagee and Kenneth Copeland.[26] Among the luminaries on the NCBCPS Advisory Board, is Janet Folger Porter, the May Day Event organizer who lost her Faith2Action radio program on VCY America after Herescope posted a series of articles exposing her ties to Dominonism.[27] Porter, like Norris, also writes a column for WorldNetDaily.[28]
Also noted is NCBCPS Advisory Board member, David Barton, a patriotic Dominionist and historical revisionist,[29] who has influenced not only the NCBCPS curriculum, but Fox News host Glenn Beck[30] and the Texas State Board of Education.[31] Barton’s version of history is also a prominent feature of Norris’ latest book, Black Belt Patriotism, How To Reawaken America.[32]
Todd DuBord, Chuck Norris’ chaplain (TopKick Productions) and researcher,[33] was interviewed on Wallbuilders Live! (Barton’s radio program) in March of 2009 by Rick Green, a former Texas legislator marked by ethical improprieties who failed an attempt at becoming a Texas Supreme Court Judge in April 2010—despite glowing endorsements from David Barton… and Chuck Norris.[34] In the radio interview, DuBord referred to Black Belt Patriotism as a “Christian Cultural Manifesto,”
…A hardcore look at what our Founders believed and a way to reawaken America and to get back to that vision—very similar to what Wallbuilders is all about. In fact, we [Chuck and Todd] use many, many resources from Wallbuilders and always appreciate your guy’s ministry.[35]
David Barton also has strong ties to former House Speaker, Newt Gingrich, founder of Renewing American Leadership (ReAL),[36] and possible presidential candidate in 2012[37] —who also has a working relationship with Chuck Norris. In 2008, Norris appeared in drilling ads for Gingrich’s American Solutions for Winning the Future campaign.[38] In May, Norris was a featured speaker at the National NRA Convention in Charlotte, N.C., alongside Gingrich, Sarah Palin, U.S. Rep. Mike Pence, R-Ind., Lt. Col. Oliver North, and Glenn Beck,[39] who frequently features Barton on his TV/radio program[40], and related special events.[41]
Chuck Norris has not only thrown his celebrity behind a famous Word-Faith author (Osteen), a Texas Supreme Court judge hopeful (Rick Green), but also endorsed former Republican Arkansas Governor and Fox News host Mike Huckabee for president in 2007-2008.[42] Incredibly, Huckabee appeared in an ad with money preacher, Kenneth Copeland, in the December 2007 issue of Charisma magazine and spent a week on Copeland’s TV daily broadcast, the Believers Voice of Victory—at the same time that the Senate Finance Committee launched an investigation into the Copelands (and several other multimillion-dollar Word-Faith ministry moguls).[43] Instead of distancing himself from Copeland, Huckabee accepted a $29,000 personal donation from Copeland, held a fundraiser at the Copeland estate raising upwards of $100,000[44] —and even appeared in a live webcast pastor’s conference sponsored by Kenneth Copeland Ministries requesting emergency funds. One report says that following Huckabee’s plea, $111,000 in cash was raised for Huckabee, with an additional unspecified amount given in campaign pledges presumed to be in excess of a million dollars.[45]
As mentioned previously, Chuck Norris is a columnist for WorldNetDaily (WND),[46] a conservative online news source founded by Joseph Farah, a Dominionist sympathizer[47] with radical right views.[48] Farah just re-released his Dominionist-leaning 2005 book, Taking America Back: A Radical Plan to Revive Freedom, Morality, and Justice, as well introducing his latest work, The Tea Party Manifesto: A Vision for an American Rebirth earlier this year.[49] In September, WND and Farah will host the “Taking America Back Convention,” in Miami, FL. Speakers will include author, political commentator, and syndicated columnist Ann Coulter, Rep. Michele Bachmann R-Minn., constitutional lawyer Michael Farris, Home School Legal Defense Association (HSLDA), Alan Keyes, Christian right political activist, and Bible teacher Chuck Missler (Koinonia House).[50]
CHUCK NORRIS: HIS MISSION
Brethren, join in following my example, and observe those who walk according to the pattern you have in us. For many walk, of whom I often told you, and now tell you even weeping, that they are enemies of the cross of Christ, whose end is destruction, whose god is their appetite, and whose glory is in their shame, who set their minds on earthly things. For our citizenship is in heaven, from which also we eagerly wait for a Savior the Lord Jesus Christ
(Phil. 3:17-20)
Despite the personal notoriety, Chuck Norris considers his life’s mission to be KickStartKids, a martial arts program for at-risk school children that former President H.W. Bush helped him start in 1992.[51] Norris has said, “martial arts training provides them [at-risk children] with the core values and philosophies associated with leading a productive and healthy life…”[52] According to Norris, those “core values and philosophies,” taught in the KickStart program, square with the Bible. “The martial arts is a philosophy that is pretty much the principles in the Bible. Even though we can’t talk about Jesus, we can talk about what Jesus talks about in the Bible—love, loving your neighbor, being good people.”[53]
It has previously been established that the root philosophies and underlying values of the martial arts are completely at odds with the Bible.[54] Nevertheless, Mr. Norris has a vision to establish this program in every school in America, growing his nearly 7,000 students into 24,000,000 and beyond.[55] All the proceeds from Norris’ book sales and projects like his World Combat League, airing on the Versus Channel, go to KickStartKids.[56] In 2009, Norris received the McLane Leadership in Business Award by President Bush Sr., “for his service to America’s youth.”[57] Accepting the award, Norris told the audience, “I’m a product of what martial arts can do for you, it turned my whole life around…It changed a young, insecure, nonathletic kid into a world champion and renowned actor.”[58]
In keeping with his “service to youth,” Chuck Norris and Pastor Todd DuBord wrote The Official Chuck Norris Fact Book in November of 2009.[59] The book (published by Tyndale Publishing) is a compilation of mythical sayings (in the spirit of Paul Bunyan) with inspirational messages woven in—“many of which reintroduce Americans, particularly our youth, to our Founder’s America.”[60] These Chuck Norris “facts” have become an Internet phenomenon, such as “Chuck Norris puts the laughter in manslaughter,” and “There are no weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, Chuck Norris lives in Oklahoma.” Norris has even become a cult hero among American—and Iraqi forces.[61]
Norris posed the following questions in a March 2009 column posted in WorldNetDaily, “How much more will Americans take? When will enough be enough? And, when that time comes, will our leaders finally listen or will history need to record a second American Revolution?[62] Six months later, Norris wrote a piece entitled: “The Secret Weapon in America’s Revolution.” Here is the “secret weapon”:
I believe young people will play a critical role in reawakening and returning America again to its Founding Father’s vision, ways and principles…I believe there exists a latent power in this particular generation that waits to be awakened and reveal its full potential…I’m not talking about selling them on a partisan platform, but a patriot one (as our Founders had.)…[63]
(This sounds alarmingly like Dominionism’s “New Breed.”)[64] In the Black Belt Patriotism chapter entitled, “Calling All Millennials!,” Norris gives this charge to his younger readers:
We need you to help us reawaken America and rebuild what our Founding Fathers started…If you’re a Millennial, consider this an invitation. We need your help. I need your help to join me and millions of others in a revolution (or, if you will, a rebelution), not to abandon the principles of the past but combine them with social action in the present to build a better tomorrow. In other words, it’s time to make some noise![65]
In the introduction to this book, Chuck Norris makes this statement: “I’ve committed the rest of my life to help Old Glory rise again to her heights of splendor.” He followed his remarks with a visit back to the Alamo (coincidently the same locale for the Patriot Pastor’s Tea Party Rich Scarborough held July 7),[66] proudly detailing the human casualties in this infamous battle. He concluded the historical narrative by saying, “They lost that battle but would provide the inspiration to win the war. Their fighting spirit rallied the new found republic and still does to this day. So when you think all is lost in America, remember the Alamo!”[67]
Human beings were killed in this armed revolution. Is this the kind of “revolution” he has planned for the youth—the Millennials— of America? Decide for yourself. Norris closes this intro with a quote from General Sam Houston, former governor of Texas and leader of the Texas Revolution of 1835.[68]
We view ourselves on the eve of battle. We are nerved for the contest, and must conquer or perish. It is vain to look for present aid: none is at hand. We must now act or abandon all hope! Rally to the standard, and be no longer the scoff of mercenary tongues! Be men, be free men, that your children may bless their father’s name.
From ‘Thoughts From My Reformed Self‘, Stokes writes this review on Chris Pringle’s Presence Conference Session on 13/04/2012.
C3’s Chris Pringle Butchers the Gospel In Job to Teach Prosperity Heresy
I’ve already reviewed one message from the Presence Conference in Sydney and have already seen enough to convince me that no one should attend this conference unless as a rescue mission to evangelize the lost that can only become more lost than they were before by believing anything that’s taught here. But we are building a case and making an argument and, keeping that goal in mind, there can never be too much evidence.
For more on the entire C3 Church Movement headed up by Phil Pringle and his wife, a great source is C3Churchwatch blog.
So this time I am reviewing a “sermon” that makes Steven Furtick seem like a breath of fresh air. Chris Pringle already has a strike against her as I consider her preaching because she is a woman who is not only defying the biblical mandate against women teaching groups including men, but further defies God’s word because she holds the office of co-pastor of C3 Church in Sydney with her husband Phil Pringle. Since the Bible clearly forbids women from holding this office in the church, we know right off what low regard Ms. Pringle has for the authority of God’s Word.
But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet, 13 For it was Adam who was first created, and then Eve.” (1 Tim. 2:12-13).
“Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach (1 Tim. 3:2)
So there’s one strike, but she has enough strikes to finish off a full lineup through all nine innings! These are the big strikes, which accompany the strikes against her throughout the sermon. First, this message is not about Jesus. It is not taken from the Bible. It is not about the gospel. It is, however, packed with narrative of the history of C3 church, with a heavy dose of anecdotes from the life of Phil and Chris Pringle.
The title of Chris Pringle’s message is “The Scent of Water”. Before you write off that title as ridiculous, in all fairness, that phrase does appear in Job 14, but she fails to present a message that really has anything to do with water or anything that water represents. Instead, she centers the message around the idea of seeds and trees. Sometimes the seed is a dream, sometimes it’s a person. Sometimes the tree is your dream, sometimes it’s you and sometimes it’s the church. Sometimes you’re supposed to bury your seed and let it die. Sometimes you’re supposed to be the seed and reach up to the “scent of water”. Sometimes you’re supposed to shut it in a woodshed and forget about it. (You think I’m kidding, don’t you. Just wait and see for yourself.) As erratic as her imagery may be, her speaking style is more so. I lost count of the times she interrupted herself. Chris Pringle is a world class bunny trailer.
I also sense much untruth in her little stories. I would lay bets that the anecdote supposedly pulled from their early marriage in the middle of this message is more of a yarn or a tall tale. I will make a case for that notion, but admittedly can’t prove it. But my suspicions are not unfounded.
Sidebar to Address an Annoying Habit Among Modern Worship Bands.
I’ve been told by my husband, who used to play keyboard for a worship band, that what I witness at the beginning of this video is called “vamping”. Here is what I’m talking about. The video opens with the end of a worship song. There is no telling what song, because the way they draw out the finale always comes out sounding the same. The female vocalist always wails emotionally above the sound of the band, following no particular melody and maybe repeating stock phrases such as “Oh, Lord” or “We love you, Jesus”. The guitars are pounding one or two chords over and over and over, and the drums draw out a final cymbal-crashing finale over several minutes. All of this is provided with a backdrop of a video of a glittery waterfall pattern, designed to mesmerize. Everyone on stage is most definitely caught up “in the Spirit” because they have their eyes squinched tight and hands raised. So this is called “vamping”? That’s appropriate, I think, considering it’s obviously designed to seduce.
vamp2 [vamp]
noun 1.a seductive woman who uses her sensuality to exploit men.
verb 2. to use feminine charms upon; seduce.
Here I’ll start the “play-by-pay” of Chris Pringle’s morning session. I started out making links that go straight to certain spots in the video, but that started becoming too time consuming so they cease about 20 minutes in:
0:40 Music leader asks everyone to pray for floodgates to open on their neighbor. Sounds dangerous! C3′s hazard insurance premiums are going to go through the roof!!
1:15 Music Leader starts speaking in “tongues”. No interpreter. And I know from personal experience that this is a skill that you can learn to exhibit on demand. Not buying it though he’s making it more believable than some do. Chris Pringle’s efforts, which are on display towards the end of this video, display a need for more practice to be convincing. The music leader follows his burst of babble with a series of bumper-sticker phrases back to back – altogether lacking in meaning or grammatical sense.
2:52 Finally winding down the “vamping” to outline agenda for the evening.
3:43 Encouraging crowd to applaud a pastor in the audience from Lausanne, Switzerland. Ahhhh, Lausanne, hometown of the ecumenical movement. He’s being congratulated for breaking 600 in attendance at their particular C3 site. These interludes between music and message are giving me flashback to my days in sales. They sound suspiciously like they’re conducting a sales rally, complete with shout-outs to the regional managers who put up the best numbers, etc.
Good grief. Pastor from Lausanne being called up to the stage and asked to pray for everyone, but could he do it in French.
5:22 Swiss Pastor prays in French. I guess we’re going back to the Dark Ages, where it’s acceptable to lead worship in a language the congregation doesn’t understand. He does follow with a separate prayer in English, not a translation, just a different prayer in English. He was way more excited while he prayed in French. Too bad we’ll never know what he was excited about. This was followed up with much silliness from the worship leader about how cool French sounds. Music leader actually instructed audience to make a silly French sound in unison.
8:03 Introduces “Pastor” Chris, listing her many amazing qualities.
10:20 He finally finishes praising “Pastor” Chris, who now takes the stage. She proceeds to pay it forward and praises the crowd for theirmany worthy qualities, and becoming verklempt out of love for her people.
11:30 ”I believe in you, all that God has for you,” she declares. Then she has a moment where she says something more honest than maybe she herself realizes: “This is not a teaching session so put away your notebook.” Kind of begs the question, just what kind of session is this?
“It’s going to start popping, out of the earth, out of your heart, out of your lives.” Will this require medical attention?
13:00 Introduces daughter, Rebecca, who “works like a Trojan horse”. Odd simile. She is aware, isn’t she, that Trojan horses are made of wood and require the effort of multiple other people just to get them point A to point B?
13:17 Presenting Pastor Phil’s paintings on stage up for sale. She says anyone who things they’re in “fat city” are under a delusion. They need to sell art to pay their bills. So we’re supposed to believe that Phil Pringle is a starving artist? Really? How about selling the Rolex on your wrist, Pastor Phil? That would pay a lot of bills.
14:14 She starts engraining the concept that money is a “supernatural seed”. Very smooth little insertion of the concept here. “We sow that supernatural seed, and now it’s your turn.”
Does sales pitch for Phil’s paintings, complete with the claim that they are “anointed” with the same power that rests on Phil. That’s a bold assertion. By the way, I am an amateur artist and have even painted some through the years. In my amateur opinion, these are not particularly spectacular paintings. I mean, they’re okay. They remind me of greeting cards. And I think I remember from the review I did of the Furtick sermon that they sold one of these for about $30,000. These definitely do not rate that kind of price tag. The only way people are paying that much is because they believe the Spirit of God will somehow come with paintings. Click here to view where she’s showing them on stage.
I am thinking that the punishment for actually has got to worse for collecting money claiming to sell the Spirit than for trying to buy it. And the punishment for the latter was certainly bad for Simon the magician:
18 Now when Simon saw that the Spirit was given through the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money,19 saying, “Give me this power also, so that anyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” 20 But Peter said to him, “May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! 21 You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. 22 Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. 23 For I see that you are in the gall[c] of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity.”
15:37 Chris introduces Bif and Kim Tyson, members of C3 whom I sense are about to be exploited to tug heart strings and to get emotion flowing in the room. The wife is in a wheel chair and is paralyzed from the waist down from a car accident a year ago. That is certainly horrible and sad but doesn’t it literally add insult to injury that they are about to let themselves be used like puppies are used to sell paper towels?
16:37 ”Bif’s story [the woman in the wheelchair], in my heart, has something to do with the supernatural seed” gushes Chris. She is working hard to insert that “seed” concept whenever possible. Later in the conference, Phil Pringle shamelessly uses this so-called principle to draw money from the attendees.
Chris says they are “sowing their supernatural seed” as she presents as a gift one of Phil’s paintings to the couple. Wow that’s a tiny painting! They chose one so small that I can’t recognize what it’s a painting of. Big applause though. Uh, Pastor Chris. There’s a verse I’d like to share with you:
“Beware of practicing your righteousness before other people in order to be seen by them, for then you will have no reward from your Father who is in heaven. (Matthew 6:1)”
18:03 Soundman Jordie comes to fix mic which is rattling against earring. Did she just make a pass at him?! She was obviously joking, but ew! He’s probably a quarter of her age and she’s the pastor’s wife… or actually she’s one of the pastors.
18:49 She says, apologetically, “I’m going to get to the Bible.” Promises, promises…
19:10 Gratuitous insertion of reference to her making love to her husband. She apparently received these particular earrings while they were… you know…. Thank you so much for that image. Where’s the Ambien? I’m going to need a dreamless sleep tonight. She also decides to share that the mic is caught in her bra. It’s kind of embarrassing the antics they go through to get it untangled. Raucous laughter from the audience.
20:29 ”It’s all about this seed—this relationship”. Oh, I forgot that one. The seed is also a relationship. Got it.
20:38 Okay, this is starting to bug me. She is using Jordie’s mom as an illustration but has forgotten her name. This is the fourth or fifth time within only about 20 minutes of combined Chris Pringle/Phil Pringle footage that I have witnessed them forgetting somebody’s name among those that works on their staff or are part of their church. This is supposed to be the flock they’re shepherding and they don’t even care enough about these people to remember their names! Each time they stumble like this, they try to whitewash over it with flattery. She immediately starts to refer to Helen, whose name she forgot, as her sister.
20:46 Tells story about Wendy (Jordie’s mom) and how she had brain cancer and wasn’t a Christian. She was brought to Jesus and healed of her brain cancer. Jesus did not receive any glory for this, but these things were credited to the life-changing power present in the connect groups at C3. Not a WORD about God, about Jesus, about his healing Power! This is going to be a very long message.
21:35 ”This awesome, supernatural seed is going va-va-va-va-va in the earth.” What is that word? Is that a va-va-va-va-verb?
21:53 Chris refers to the so-called prophecy regarding the filling of the Warragamba Dam.
I have to insert here that there is absolutely nothing so far that would clue anyone in that this is a Christian gathering. Chris is now talking about “God’s supernatural power”. What god? Which god? I think I’m going to stop capitalizing god (as well as her “holy spirit”) until she gives some reason to do otherwise.
22:06 She is just babbling at this point. She is making no sense, but she believes whatever she’s babbling “with all her heart”
22:26 ”You have literally been drawn here by the scent of water.” I think you need to look up what “literal” means. A few sentences later, “There’s something that happens in a seed that’s in the earth… something that’s hidden…. dark, black, possible even dead. I know that the holy spirit today is going to revive and turn things around, supernaturally as you and I lift up, look up to the scent of water.” I refuse to capitalize this woman’s holy spirit.
23:05 Chris Pringle has a severe case of A.D.D. She gets scattered and stalls and follows every possible bunny trail. For instance, she just came to an abrupt stop to address the band behind her. She realizes they had not been dismissed and wondered if they minded still being on stage. She then inquires of someone in the front row (Phil?) if the band is distracting. I have to answer for her not half so distracting as her self-inflicted interruptions! She then shows remorse for bringing up the subject, thinking they might feel unwanted and tells them that she loves having them up there because they’re her kids, all of them, and she’s “Momma Chris”. Then immediately admits to not knowing the name of the girl on the drums, which rather spoiled the effect of her little speech.
Informed of the drummer’s name, Chris is flustered as if she ought to have known her name. (Yes, she should have.) Chris then remarks on their striking resemblance to Erica and Darlene. This gives evidence that she doesn’t know any of them well or their faces would be quite distinct from one another. A brief attempt to get back on track lasted about two seconds before stops again inquire how she’s doing on time. At this point, this is a valid concern since her various self-inflicted interruptions have probably eaten up the clock. It shows a lack of respect for those in the audience who paid money for this conference. She seems quite unprepared and doesn’t seem to concerned, though, that she’s wasting the time they paid for.
24:28 Starts talking about Steven Furtick’s message and how she had a flashback to her life in the80s while Steven was preaching.
25:00 Chris asserts that that her holy spirit moves and speaks in those times our mind wanders. She’s making a case, it seems, that those with A.D.D. are spiritually gifted. She’s encouraging an undisciplined mind here and making it a virtue.
25:18 Chris says the holy spirit wants to get us to reach up to the scent of water. If this is true, her holy spirit is going to have to train me how I reach for a smell and what water smells like exactly.
25:44 Out of the blue, interrupts herself again to tell the audience that she has lost 10 kilos and not 12 as she had claimed yesterday. This couldn’t be more out of place. I think she has no ability to keep thoughts that pop into her had from popping right out of her mouth.
26:55 Another bunny trail to announce Phil’s 60th birthday is next month. Feels the need to share their vacation plans and says something that I gather is inappropriate, but she’s using Australian slang, with which I’m unfamiliar. It might be really bad for all I know, so I’m going to not quote her.
26:28 Says guiltily and apologetically, “I’ve got to get onto the message. I’ve almost read a scripture… It’s part of a scripture.” We’re almost a half-hour in. That would be nice. But is that all we’re probably going to get? A verse? Part of a verse? “Don’t worry about what I’m saying. Just pick up the good vibes. Okay?” Wow… she’s getting her theology from the Beach Boys?
26:56 ”I’m going to get to this little supernatural seed, and it’s a trick. There’s a trick in the supernatural seed. It’s actually in the natural seed as well.” This sentence makes absolutely no sense to me! I’m lost. Chris then circles back to continue to her earlier story about her flashback to the 80′s. Here, Chris talks at length about the history of C3 and its humble beginnings. ” Phil was, blah, blah, blah… and I was blah, blah, blah… and we were blah, blah, blah….” Can we have something more along the lines of “Jesus did…”, “God ordained…”, and “His Spirit has…” and pull from their story that’s already been recorded for us?
29:06 ”Some things, we can’t see but god can see. It’s hidden in the earth. We don’t know it yet. Some of your pastors and leaders are there right now.” I have a prediction that the magic trick for getting the seed out of its hiding place is to plant more seeds. In the world of rosperity preachers, “seed” always means money.
29:37 ”Every day, we were reading this book by T.L. and Daisy Osborne. A Daily Guide to Miracles.” Hmmm…. This is the title of a book by Oral Roberts. The actual title is A Daily Guide to Miracles and Successful Living through Seed-Faith. When I look up the authors she just cited, I find that T.L. Osborn was Roberts partner in street evangelistic meetings in the 1930′s. Here is my first piece of evidence that she’s making this story up. If this book had so much meaning to them, she would have remembered who wrote it. What I suspect really happened is that she pulled this quote off of Osborn’s website and assumed it was Osborn’s quote. Then decided to build an entire fictitious anecdote around the quote.
30:20 ”The holy spirit said to me ‘Go home and get that painting’” Claiming direct divine revelation, but as we’ve covered already, no reason to believe this is the Lord. She does this so many times in this hour-long message, it would make the review far too long to cite every instance.
30:44 ”T.L. had said in this chapter, ‘take your very best, the cream of your heart, and sow it to God.’” As we already covered, if this came from the book, Roberts said it, not T.L. This quote was hand-picked as words well-crafted to move the audience to take their “best” and give it away and this will unleash god’s blessing. She’s priming the pump to convince them to give away their best. She said this about the one finished painting and it really doesn’t make much sense: “Right then and there, I sowed Sydney. I sowed Sydney; I put it in the earth. I covered it up. And I shut the woodshed door.” Chris has stopped making sense. She sowed Sydney? Is Sydney the earth? Is Sydney a seed? How do you “sow” a city? I suppose Chris would accuse me of not seeing with my spiritual eyes. I don’t think that’s the problem though. This language, all of it, is foreign to the language I find in scripture.
31:50 ”I know, as I was praying this morning, the Lord said to me some of you have to shut the woodshed door. You’ve got to shut the door and trust god with that seed.” This cracks me up! I can’t help hearing now the recurring line from the movie Cold Comfort Farm: “I saw something NASTY in the woodshed!” And by the way, what she shut in the woodshed was Phil’s only finished painting, the only means by which they would possibly make any money. I have a REAL hard time believing that these people passed up the chance to auction off a painting like this. She has it up there as a prop on stage and I have a hard time believing that this painting survived all these years because of sentimentality. I’m thinking he painted this one for the occasion, or maybe to have many occasions where they use this same story.
32:50 Chris finally reads from Scripture:
John 12:24 “Very truly I tell you, unless a kernel of wheat falls to the ground and dies, it remains only a single seed. But if it dies, it produces many seeds.”
Now the Amplified: “I assure you, most solemnly I tell you, unless a grain of wheat falls into the earth and dies, it remains just one grain, it never becomes more, but lives by itself alone, but if it dies, it produces many others and yields a rich harvest.”
The Message: Listen carefully. Unless a grain of wheat is buried in the ground, dead to the world, it is never any more than a grain of wheat. But if it is buried, it sprouts and reproduces itself many times over.
33:55 And then, as if she’s summing up that one verse (do we really need a summary of one verse?) she says, “Even though you can’t see it, the tree is definitely in the seed”. I think she’s missed the point of the passage. This is wheat, not an acorn. It multiplies rather than grow into one big thing. But that doesn’t fit her purposes of preaching about big dreams, so she’d rather ignore that. Not to mention the whole passage surrounding this verse is about denying yourself and taking up your cross, which would sound quite foreign coming out of Chris Pringle’s mouth. Now she’s going back into their life story and talking about how attractive Phil was back then. Says something about Phil in bicycle shorts. Ugh! Please stop!
34:44 While riding his bike in 1980, god spoke to Phil and asked him to go to Littleton. The lesson here, apparently, is they let Sydney die (their desire to have the church in Sydney) and so a door opened in Littleton. This is law, not living under grace. It’s a quid pro quo.
35:30 She says that if the seed (and it’s left to your own creativity and imagination as to what your particular seed might be) is buried in the earth, “leave it dead because something’s about to happen. Here’s what I’m going to say. It’s not just about planting a church…. Growing a church… It’s the DNA, the supernatural connections of the DNA in that seed is what is going to cause that seed to go POP! Snap, Crackle, Pop in the earth!” Again, she’s speaking a foreign language.
36:30 Chris is still talking about her life and of trees and seeds. She keeps producing strange sound effects to describe the rumbling seed as well as many sentence fragments and incomplete thoughhts.
36:58 ”The lord said, I’ve given you this city.” This is a grand claim indeed. Sort of the opposite of what Jesus did when he turned down being given all the kingdoms of the world. This is not biblical language unless you go all the way back to Joshua where God commanded the Israelite army to commit entire cities to destruction. We have been given a very specific kind of authority, according to Matthew 28:18: To proclaim the gospel, to batize and to teach all Jesus commanded.
37:04 Chris makes a statement you can tell she’s proud of. She utters, as if an oracle of god, “When we want to, we’re not ready. When we’re ready, we don’t want to.” This amazing insight drew a round of applause. I guess it just sounded so deep and inscrutable, the audience decided that it must be amazingly wise. Phil is in the audience grinning, as if his wife has just proven her utter genius. She follows this up with, “When we’re cocky, god’s not interested. When we’re freaking out, crapping our pants. We’re ready. When we’re hiding in the wine press…That’s when god puts our hand on us.” Crass language aside, this is again a quid pro quo. We receive from God when we have our act straight.
37:55 We need to make sure we do it right. (More law, no grace, no gospel. It’s all about what we have to do. Have you got anything for someone who doesn’t have it all together?) We must do what god wants because we have to make sure the conditions are right for the seed to go “pop”. (Wow I’m glad to have exited this religious culture full of pressure to make sure we’re “doing it right” so that we don’t “miss God’s will”. It’s very freeing to know that we do not have the ability to get in God’s way. He’s quite a bit stronger than us.)
38:05 ”We need to listen to our leaders and make sure it’s the right place, the right time.” Okay, this is a biggie. She’s asserting that she and Phil are god’s mouthpiece and the populace had better listen to them or their seed’s not going to “pop”.
38:24 Getting Veklempt again, thanking her husband for listening to the holy spirit. “Thank you, babe!”
39:12 Still talking about the story of C3. Asks C3 Pastors to stand up to be honored with applause for, I guess, letting their seed die. It’s interesting that the one verse she’s read so far happens to be one that does not mention Jesus. This is natural since Jesus was the one who said it, but we the audience doesn’t know that because she didn’t read the verse in context.
39:49 ”Look at you! This is our seed! This is our DNA!” Veklempt.
39:58 Chris has an honest moment: “My message is in sort of bits. I’m sorry. But that’s just how I am. I’m all in bits.”
40:15 Chris introduces a little gum tree prop. Still talking about the story of the beginning of C3 church.
41:20 ”The supernatural seed is protected by the power of the holy spirit…. That’s why Habbakuk says, “Wait, wait, wait… keep your expectations high. Just wait…” Habbakuk says what?? Well, it could be she’s talking about this. It’s a popular verse among those who expect special revelation from God. But what this verse is talking about waiting for is God’s judgment, which is quickly approaching:
Write the vision;
make it plain on tablets,
so he may run who reads it
For still the vision awaits its appointed time;
it hastens to the end—it will not lie.
If it seems slow, wait for it;
it will surely come; it will not delay. (Habakkuk 2:2-3)
Chris continues on to give the pastors there a pep talk. Chris says if they don’t have that “positive expectation”, then get with someone who does. This sounds like “Hitch your wagon to a star.” Again, this brings me back to my sales days, except it’s starting to be more reminiscent of my very first sales job in Mary Kay.
42:08 That’s why Habakkuk says, “Write it down. Make it real plain. Date it.” I see the write it down part, but not the “date it”. That sounds more like a quote from a book on setting goals. And Habakkuk was told something specific to write down. Is she claiming everyone there is to expect revelation with the same authority as what Habakkuk received?
42:40 Now talking about the original land purchase back in 1980. How is this not boring the audience to tears? But she’s treating it like some story that will effect life change: “The story of C3 church is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes”. Wait a minute. That doesn’t sound right.
42:50 Chris is now reminiscing about a tree-planting day C3 celebrated, which I predict will turn out to be a momentous event with great spiritual significant. Chris and Phil planted a tree which looked like it was going to die which, of course, is just like your vision which looks sick and dying.
44:07 ”He used to be a tree-hugger, my man, when he was on acid.” Niiiiiice.
44:30 Big picture of big tree put up onto the screen. This is supposedly proof that if you just believe, your dream can grow from a sickly little seed… or tree… or bad idea… or something… like… ummm… never mind.
44:54 The holy spirit said to her to get a painting and bring it today – a painting of two women fetching water. Chris assumed it must have special meaning for “someone here today” to not give up. “Draw water. Draw water from the wells of salvation.” What? Is that a verse? If it is, she must have just googled it so she could throw in a verse at this point. But she didn’t cite it so I’ll look it up. Here it is in context:
You will say in that day:
“I will give thanks to you, O Lord,
for though you were angry with me,
your anger turned away,
that you might comfort me.
2 “Behold, God is my salvation;
I will trust, and will not be afraid;
for the Lord God is my strength and my song,
and he has become my salvation.”
3 With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation. (Isaiah 12:1-3)
Chris Pringle has managed to quote the one verse in the passage that implies our part in the matter. God as our savior is absent from anything she quotes.
45:17 Speaks for a while on how we should speak nice things to our little tree and hug it and don’t be mean to it and criticize our tree. Awww… poor little tree. /sigh/
46:15 Rains are coming, floodgates of heaven are open. This is really kind of boring me. This is boilerplate prosperity-speak. When did the sappy music start? I didn’t notice. But it’s apparently time for it, because she’s gotten to the “You could be here today…” part.
46:35 ”We want you in the family tree. Turn to your neighbor and say, ‘I’m in your family tree’” This is a versatile tree. She’s shifted her metaphor. The tree – it’s a dream, it’s a church, it’s everything but what was originally intended in the text.
46:51 ”Here’s my scripture, and it’s the scripture of my message.” She says in a tone of voice that says, oops, I sure got off track, because she proceeds to cite a verse that she hasn’t even mentioned yet: Job 14:7 “Even a tree has more hope.” What? Let me look up this verse:
For there is hope for a tree,
if it be cut down, that it will sprout again,
and that its shoots will not cease.
What translation is she reading from? And she only read a third of one verse. She’s talking about this as if this verse is about giving encouragement to people who have been discouraged in their dreams. How dare she compare the type of thing she’s talking about with what Job went through. He lost all his children. He’s covered in boils. He lost his fortune in a moment.
47:28 Reaching up to the “scent of water” again, then proceeds to finish reading Job 14:7 and a few more verses following. Oh, so here’s where the “scent of water” came from. The plant reaches up to the scent of water. She said the “holy spirit quickened this verse to her.” In other words, she was reading this and suddenly was filled with her own bright ideas. Here is what she read:
For there is hope for a tree,
if it be cut down, that it will sprout again,
and that its shoots will not cease. Though its root grow old in the earth,
and its stump die in the soil, yet at the scent of water it will bud
and put out branches like a young plant. (Job 14:7-9)
Here is what follows it:
But a man dies and is laid low;
man breathes his last, and where is he? As waters fail from a lake
and a river wastes away and dries up, so a man lies down and rises not again;
till the heavens are no more he will not awake
or be roused out of his sleep. Oh that you would hide me in Sheol,
that you would conceal me until your wrath be past,
that you would appoint me a set time, and remember me! If a man dies, shall he live again?
All the days of my service I would wait,
till my renewal should come. You would call, and I would answer you;
you would long for the work of your hands. For then you would number my steps;
you would not keep watch over my sin; my transgression would be sealed up in a bag,
and you would cover over my iniquity. (Job 14:10-17)
This is the gospel! She’s right on its doorstep! This is about how we are like that tree, cut down, seemingly dead, but only asleep. And Job is trusting God to call him on the last day, but after his wrath has past and that his sins stay buried, but he will rise up at his voice. This is about the resurrection on the last day.
For we know Job says later in chapter 19:
For I know that my Redeemer lives,
and at the last he will stand upon the earth. And after my skin has been thus destroyed,
yet in my flesh I shall see God,(Job 19:25-26)
Wow, she’s right on the doorstep of a beautiful gospel passage, but she has absolutely no interest in that, because that will not help her and Phil build their C3 kingdom.
48:00 Getting crowd whipped up. She repeats various concepts about seeds, saplings, and scent of water and throws in some tongue babbling.
49:00 ”I’m going to tell you a little story”. Oh, goodie! It’s story time with Mama Chris. Oh my goodness, what comes next is just painful. She mentions someone in the band who she says she loves. Chris says she’s his “white mama”. And she says then that of course he’s got a mother. She proceeds to succumb to the irrational need to mention her ethnicity. She stumbles between whether to call her white or colored and you can tell Julian is uncomfortable and embarrassed for her. Why was that information even necessary? It just provided an opportunity to put her foot in her mouth. Chris goes on to explain that she has added him into her family tree and he’s now one of her sons. Julian just got married and apparently Chris performed the ceremony.
50:05 Chris says god wants us to see the invisible, supernatural seed of destiny in young men and young women. Okay… seed of destiny. Got it.
50:30 /sigh/ Now she’s talking to the little tree.
51:50 Starts singing snippet of some rain song.
51:40 She’s going to pray over Julian and he’s going to represent a seed of the future in our churches represented here to breathe upon this new seed.” She instructs all the musicians in the audience to stand up to be prayed over and she prays for god to “pop that seed in him.” She ends “In the name of Jesus.” First mention of Jesus.
53:00 Now talking more about C3 and what they do… blah, blah, blah. Then more about Chris’ life story. “God spoke to me… I had this revelation: everywhere I went, all the fruit, all the seed, all the trees, that were coming up with new life were through the church.” Scratch, scratch, scratch those itching ears. She then says she made a vow that she was not going to make Kone famous but make Jesus Christ famous. And may I say… epic fail. You are showing yourself inept at making Jesus famous. She spends the next several minutes telling Chris Pringle’s story. Also tells about some girl in Uganda with a tragic story, and C3 became her hero.
58:37 LOL! Is Phil Pringle asleep!?
59:05 Video about girl in Uganda. Apparently a testimonial of how much better her quality of life is now thanks to C3.
1:01:00 Instructing everyone to lift their hands to heaven to the “scent of water”.
1:01:25 Praying. Floodgates of heaven and more “pop, pop, pop”. “Up, up, up” over and over again. “Thank you Lord that you rebirth vision.” He does? Where do you find that in the Bible? “Let that dream flicker, flicker, flicker. Breath upon it holy spirit.” She’s apparently now seeing all sorts of things and relaying what’s in her mind’s eye.
1:03:19 Instructing everyone to pray in the spirit, then starts babbling. Making up her own repetitive song now, full up nonsense about rising and stretching and coming out of the earth. I’m so ready for this to be over. I’m pretty sure what she’s doing right now is supposedly prophetically singing, singing what are supposedly words from the lord over the people interspersed with tongue-babbling.
1:05:12 Now declaring seeds are popping and churches are coming out of oblivion. Coincidentally, I find myself wishing for oblivion at this point. “Send us to the graces of the earth.” Pardon? That sentence has no meaning. Music has been growing constantly in intensity. But soon softens. She’s getting ready for the hypnotic portion. She’s talking in that rhythmic way. It doesn’t matter what she says. It’s rocking the brain to sleep. “Paint your brush across our souls Lord, so that we’ll be attractive to others. So we’ll be irresistible.” That sounds just a bit like a description of the devil. He is covered in a disguise as an angel of light.
1:08:08 Putting in plug to register for a Women’s conference.
1:08:36 Music leader comes up. Giving instructions for stuff happening later that day aaaaand… we’re done.
Please pray for these people who have attended these conferences that they may hear the real gospel, that the Lord of the Harvest would send workers into the field. And pray for the wolves, these deceivers to be exposed.” – Cindy Stokes, C3’s Chris Pringle Butchers the Gospel In Job to Teach Prosperity Heresy, Thoughts From My Reformed Self, http://thoughtsfrommyreformedself.com/2012/05/12/c3s-chris-pringle-butchers-the-gospel-in-job-to-teach-prosperity-heresy/, 12/05/2012. (Accessed 19/05/2012.)
Below is the transcript of Phil Pringle’s Sunday morning resurrection offering talk.
“Well we’re going to receive our tithes and offerings right now. A resurrection offering. And if you look on your seat, you’ll find a card. And obviously we’ve put out more seats this morning. So if you haven’t got a card and you need one to record credit card details to put in the offering bag, please raise your hand. And an usher will look after you. Just raise it up and wave it around and an usher will make sure you got one. That will be great. Thank you.
There’s an Eftpost machine people use at the end of the service as well. Thank you.
Hebrews chapter eleven and verse one says, ‘Now faith is the substance of things we hope for and the evidence of things we haven’t seen’. James also says that, ‘Faith without works is dead’. So to say, ‘I believe’ but not do anything about that faith is- it’s a faith that doesn’t have any effect on your life or for anybody else’s for that matter. When we come to an offering, that is one of the great acts of faith that you can get involved in.
The Bible talks about giving in exactly the same way as sowing seeds. When Paul talks about giving he talks about sowing seeds, he’s not giving an agricultural lesson, he’s talking about the giving of our finances is exactly the same as putting seeds in your garden out the back. Now if you put no seeds in there, put no seeds in your garden and you say, ‘Lord, I’m praying that I’ll have a great harvest of tomatoes over there and potatoes of here and carrots over there, it doesn’t matter how hard you pray, nothing is going to happen, because there are some basic laws that you’ve got to observe when you’re sowing seed. And that is, number one, you’ve actually got to sow the seed. Put it in the ground. And you can lay hands on it, you can speak to the ground, you can do all kind of things. But faith steps out and actually does something. It actually puts seed in the ground.
Now here’s the thing. That scripture we looked at said, ‘it’s evidence of things not seen’. When you go up to Bunnings Hardware store and you buy a packet of seeds, you say, ‘I want to grow some apple trees’. Okay, so you open up the packet and inside you see all these seeds, but on the outside you see the picture of a tree. And you can say, ‘I thought I was buying a tree’. But you look inside and all you’ve got is seeds. You’re saying, ‘I’ve got ripped off. Bunnings ripped me off’. They didn’t rip you off. They said, ‘You’ve got the potential of that tree inside this packet’. There’s the evidence. You’ve got a vision – evidence, visual evidence – of what’s going to happen in the future if you plant the seed.
And so when you and I step out in faith – and faith is measured, often by the level of our stepping out. Paul goes on and says, ‘Look! If you just plant a few seeds here, that’s all the harvest you’re going to have. But he says, ‘If you sow so abundantly, you sow without restraint, no holding back, you’re going to find yourself reaping a harvest of abundance in your life.’
And I know we live in a world where lot of negative news about finance, economy and housing and jobs today. But we live under a different economy. As soon as you ask Christ in your life, as soon as you put yourself under the government of God, you’ve entered into a totally different realm of economics. And his realms are obviously higher than anything earth’s got [scripture please?]. He’s risen from the dead for goodness sake. If He can beat death, He can beat a GFC. If He can beat death He can beat any debt you’ve got in your world. All you gotta know is that it takes the sowing of a seed.
Even Jesus said about Himself when he died, ‘Unless a seed falls into the ground and dies, it’s going to remain alone. But if it dies it’s gonna bring forth a lot of fruit’. The reason you and I are here this morning is because one seed was sown. That one human life died in the ground and it’s risen again. That exact same principle applies to our giving here this morning. God has such a longing in his heart to bless you, to liberate you from a lot of the anxieties and stresses that come in a world of economics like we’ve got today. And so right now, why don’t you and I get involved in a resurrection offering? A victorious offering! One that rises from the dead!
You might say, ‘My finances are dead’. Well here’s a moment to resurrect them. Here’s an opportunity to take hold of a principle that God’s put in our hands. Step out in faith. Trust Him that that’s going to work just as surely as you putting a seed in the ground at home. This is going to be like that for your life right now. Don’t miss out on the opportunities God puts in our way every week at church. We can take a hold of this and say, ‘You know what? I’m going to break through this week in Jesus name’. Let’s take what we’re giving and get ready to give.
Heavenly Father, right now, what a privilege, what an honour, to celebrate the birth, the death and the resurrection of the greatest life ever lived: Jesus Himself. And we pray here today Lord that as we follow your ways, not our ways, as we opt for obedience, rather than just staying outside in the desert world of people who have never subscribed to the ways of God.
Heavenly Father right now, we come to you with this offering – a generous offering, an offering of faith for a breakthrough in our financial world, for breakthrough in our economics, in our family, in our housing, in our jobs – and we’re believing here today Father that nothing can hold us down in the grave but by the power of your grace, you’ll raise up every area that’s been killed, every area that’s been crucified , every area that’s been dead in our world today, with a mighty victory. In Jesus name.
Please read Genesis 3 before reading the below blog post by Phil Pringle. Next time someone says ‘Look how fruitful Phil Pringle is’, point them to this article.
Phil Pringle blogs,
Beauty
“Genesis 3:6 “And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes…”God is not just utilitarian. He is also an artist. He creates beauty pleasant to the eyes. Creation not only gives us food and resources for life but beauty for the soul. We cannot afford to underestimate the power of art to feed the soul with beauty. Christians are like trees. Our congregations, churches, music, preaching should be ‘pleasant’ to the eyes, ears and soul of people everywhere. The idea the church should be austere, ascetic is wrong. Hardly anyone remembers Savonarola and his ‘bonfires of the vanities’, but everyone in the world recognises the enduring witness of Michelangelo’s ‘Sistene Chapel’ ceiling and Da Vinci’s ‘Last Supper’ (considered ‘vanities’ by religionists). God’s thumbprint in creation is ‘beauty’, something man can never match! See you in beautiful glorious church!“ – Phil Pringle, Beauty, http://philpringle.com/_blog/Phil_Pringle_Blog/post/Beauty/, 27/10/2009. (Accessed 13/05/2012)
D.R. McConell Observes Faith Teachers Connections To Occult Practice
Ralp Waldo Trine
New Thought Leader Ralph Waldo Trine (1866-1958) is widely-read of all New Thought writers. He has influenced many big names, including E.W. Kenyon, Kenneth Hagin and the infamous Henry Ford.1
D.R. McConnell (B.A., M.A., in theological and historical studies), offers insight into the Word of Faith Movement in his book ‘A Different Gospel – A Historical and Biblical Analysis of the Modern Faith Movement‘. McConnell traces the history of the Word of Faith Movement from Hagin to Kenyon to Kenyon’s influences at Emerson College.
McConnell provides convincing evidence that Kenyon’s work was plagiarised by Kenneth Hagin. Kenyon was influenced by various other metaphysical cult experts such as Ralph Waldo Emerson (who Pringle quotes in some of his books), Mary Eddy Baker and Ralph Waldo Trine. Many Word of Faith teachers look up to Copeland and Hagin and have been influenced by writers like metaphysical cult writers Ralph Waldo Trine, Ralph Waldo Emerson and E.W.Kenyon.
Ralph Waldo Trine wrote a book called ‘In Tune With The Infinite’, written in 1897. D.R. McConnell quotes R.W. Trine in his book ‘A Different Gospel’ (pg. 173 in pdf which you can download two quotes down):
“This is the law of prosperity: When apparent adversity comes, be not cast down by it, but make the best of it, and always look forward for better things, for conditions more prosperous. To hold yourself in this attitude of mind is to set into operation subtle, silent, and irresistible forces that sooner or later will actualize in material form that which is today merely an idea. But ideas have occult power, and ideas, when rightly planted and rightly tended, are the seeds that actualize material conditions.” – Ralph Waldo Trine, In Tune With The Infinite, Chapter 11 – Plenty Of All Things – The Law Of Prosperity, pg. 104. (Emphasis mine)
“It is significant to note that Trine attributes the confession of prosperity to “occult power.” Trine believed that “thought is a force, and it has occult power of unknown proportions when rightly used and wisely directed.” This usage of occult powers is, of course, a practice that the Faith teachers would publicly reject. Nevertheless, the Faith teachers must come to grips with the fact that those who began the practices of positive mental attitude and positive confession attributed their ability to acquire riches to psychic and occultic power. For example, Trine advocated the occultic practice of visualization as a means to become prosperous. He instructs his followers in the art of visualizing prosperity through mental suggestion and verbal affirmation.” – D.R. McConnell, A Different Gospel…, The Doctrine of Prosperity, 1988, pg. 173-174.
McConnell quotes Trine again on pg. 175 (which you can read in the pdf on pg. 104):
“Suggest prosperity to yourself. See yourself in a prosperous condition. Affirm that you will before be in a prosperous condition. Affirm it calmly and quietly, but strongly and confidently. Believe it, believe it absolutely. Expect it, keep it continually watered with expectation. You thus make yourself a magnet to attract the things that you desire.” – Ralph Waldo Trine, In Tune With The Infinite, Chapter 11 – Plenty Of All Things – The Law Of Prosperity, pg. 104.
D.R. McConnell also says,
“… the doctrine of prosperity is the result of two influences, one cultic, the other cultural. First, it is the result of metaphysical influences upon the founding father of the Faith theology, E.W. Kenyon. The metaphysical cults, particularly New Thought and the Unity School of Christianity, were the first to propogate the idea that God will make rich all those who know “the laws of prosperity” which govern the universe. Through Kenyon, this cultic belief entered the Faith movement and was expanded by Hagin and the other Faith teachers to a degree which even he himself would never have approved.
Second, the doctrine of prosperity is a gross example of the church’s cultural accommodation to the worldly values of American materialism. It is a direct contradiction of the examples of the Lord Jesus, the Apostle Paul, and all the heroes of the faith, who were “destitute, afflicted, ill-treated, men of whom the world was not worthy” (Heb. 11:37,38). The doctrine of prosperity is not worthy of such men.” – D.R. McConnell, A Different Gospel…, The Doctrine of Prosperity, 1988, pg. 173-174.
It is these metaphysical cult teachings that largely influence the Word of Faith/Prosperity Movement and the teachings of Phil Pringle’s C3 Movement. If you examine the teachings of Phil Pringle, the WoF teachers he looks up too and the leaders he influences around the world, you will notice the similarities between C3’s teachings and the teachings of the metaphysical cults.
In Pringle’s language, Pringle defines ‘faith’ as a “creative force”, “creative power of God”, “positive feeling”, “currency”, “attitude” and “knowing something no-one else does”. Read here:
An Example: Comparing Pringle’s Teaching To New Thought Teaching
Pringle continually emphasises how Christians must correctly use their faith to get what they want, often misusing scriptures in doing so. Ralph Waldo Trine earlier emphasised how much our thought force is based on “occult power of unknown proportions”. McConnell didn’t quote Trine on the following (emphasis mine):
“Recognize, working in and through you, the same Infinite Power that creates and governs all things in the universe, the same Infinite Power that governs the endless systems of worlds in space. Send out your thought. Thought is a force, and it has occult power of unknown proportions when rightly used and wisely directed send out your thought that the right situation or the right work will come to you at the right time, in the right way, and that you will recognize it when it comes. Hold to this thought, never allow it to weaken, hold to it, and continually water it with firm expectation.”– Ralph Waldo Trine, In Tune With The Infinite, Chapter 11 – Plenty Of All Things – The Law Of Prosperity, pg. 103.
There is no doubt that the C3 Movement has fallen ill to these dangerous occultic doctrines. For example, Pringle would often use Habakkuk 2 to teach the same thing as Trine.
“And the LORD answered me: “Write the vision; make it plain on tablets, so he may run who reads it. For the vision is yet for an appointed time, but at the end it shall speak, and not lie: though it tarry, wait for it; because it will surely come, it will not tarry.” Habakkuk 2:2-3
In context, this passage is about God instructing Habakkuk to write down a vision that is about Israel’s coming destruction. If anyone heeds the prophets vision, they are to take heed of the coming destruction. Those who flee, should not return. They may not see any sign of the destruction coming, but Habakkuk says it will not tarry.
Pringle says,
“WRITE IT DOWN! “Write the vision and make it plain on tablets.”
Habakkuk 2:2
Vision is to leadership what oxygen is to lungs. Essential! It’s the difference between life and death for a leader. Vision must be written down. Don’t just leave it in your imagination. Write it down. All the time. Receiving a vision is important. Writing it down is more important. The magic of a vision is in it being written down. What’s your vision? Write it down. Again and again.” – Phil Pringle, The Leadership Files Vol 2, File 42. Write It Down.
Pringle would twist the scripture and teach his church to write their personal vision down, run towards their vision and wait for it to come to pass. Pringle will use scriptures like this not knowing that he is echoing similar teachings to Trine: “Hold to this thought [Pringle: vision], never allow it to weaken [Pringle: write it down, make it plain and run for it], hold to it [Pringle: wait for it (or as he says, ‘Tarry’)], and continually water it with firm expectation [Pringle: financially support and commit to God’s house to see the vision come to pass]“.
In the process of writing this article (13/04/2012), Chris Pringle even mentioned this scripture in passing to describe this exactly on the last day of Presence Conference. This is just one example how the Pringle’s accidentally misuse scripture to justify this false doctrine.
It is worth noting that Pringle felt God warn him about dabbling in New Thought/ New Age teaching (emphasis mine).
“A number of years ago, in the pursuit of understanding management, I familiarized myself with a great variety of available business management materials and a lot of the positive mental attitude books that go along with them. Some of the material found its way into my preaching and teaching. I felt a growing discomfort in my spirit, without really understanding what it was.
One day, as I was reading a Deuteronomy 22:9, “You shall not sow your vineyard with different kind of seed, lest the yield of the seed which you have sown and the fruit of your vineyard be defiled,” I realized I could not afford to have a bag of mixed seed. I felt convicted to purify my message so that the material would only reinforce what the Word already says.” – Phil Pringle, You The Leader, 2005, pg 213.
Pringle may have obediently removed himself from worldly “business management materials and a lot of the positive mental attitude books”. But he did not disconnect himself fully from these subversive or subtle influences within or on the fringe of problematic prosperity-driven, WoF churches. For example, Laurie Beth Jones, Zig Ziglar, Bob Harrison, Pat Robertson, the Schullers, the Osbornes, Benny Hinn, John Avanzini, Kong Hee, Yonngi Cho, Peter Wagner, John C Maxwell (just to name a few) are influenced by the New Age and New Thought (or occult) teachings and principles which Pringle is influenced by.
As a result of Pringle’s focus and desire to see results and outcomes, in his driven philosophy that ‘the ends justifies the means’, Pringle has turned his ‘means’ and central ‘Christian’ doctrines into a hybrid faith. At best – his faith is not Christian at all – but echoes a New Age faith at best.
To end this article, we would like people to consider Trine’s teachings with Pringle’s teachings. Take note that Trine has no problem attributing his practices to occultism and pagan philosophies.
“Send out your thought – thought is a force, and it has occult power of unknown proportions when rightly used and wisely directed send out your thought that the right situation or the right work will come to you at the right time, in the right way, and that you will recognize it when it comes. Hold to this thought, never allow it to weaken, hold to it, and continually water it with firm expectation.” – Ralph Waldo Trine, In Tune With The Infinite, Chapter 11 – Plenty Of All Things – The Law Of Prosperity, pg. 104.
____________________________________
“THERE is a golden thread that runs through every religion in the world. There is a golden thread that runs through the lives and the teachings to all the prophets, seers, sages, and saviors in the world’s history, through the lives of all men of truly great and lasting power. All that they have ever done or attained to has been done in full accordance with law.
What one has done, all may do. This same golden thread must enter into the lives of all who today, in this busy work-a-day world of ours, would exchange impotence for power, weakness and suffering for abounding health and strength pain and unrest for perfect peace, poverty of whatever nature for fullness and plenty.
Each is building their own world. We both build from within and we attract from without. Thought is the force with which we build, for thoughts are forces. Like builds like and like attracts like. In the degree that thought is spiritualized does it become more subtle and powerful in its workings. This spiritualizing is in accordance with law and is within the power of all.
Everything is first worked out in the unseen before it is manifested in the seen, in the ideal before it is realized in the real, in the spiritual before it shows forth in the material. The realm of the unseen is the realm of cause. The realm of the seen is the realm of effect. The nature of effect is always determined and conditioned by the nature of its cause.
To point out the great facts in connection with, and the great laws underlying the workings of the interior, spiritual, thought forces, to point them out so simply and so clearly that even a child can understand, is the author’s aim. To point them out so simply and so clearly that all can grasp them, that all can take them and infuse them into everyday life, so as to mold it in all its details in accordance with what they would have it, is his purpose That life can be thus molded by them is not a matter of mere speculation or theory with him, but a matter of positive knowledge
There is a divine sequence running throughout the universe. Within and above and below the human will incessantly works the Divine will. To come into harmony with it and thereby with all the higher laws and forces, to come then into league and to work in conjunction with them, in order that they can work in league and in conjunction with us, is to come into the chain of this wonderful sequence. This is the secret of all success. This is to come into the possession of unknown riches, into the realization of undreamed-of powers.” – Ralph Waldo Trine, In Tune With The Infinite, Chapter 1 – Preface, pg. 2-3.
____________________________________
“Within yourself lies the cause of whatever enters into your life. To come into the full realization of your own awakened inner powers is to be able to condition your life in exact accord with what you would have it.” – Ralph Waldo Trine, In Tune With The Infinite, Chapter 1 – Preface, pg. 4.
____________________________________
“The moment we fully and vitally realise who and what we are, we then begin to build our own World even as God builds his.”– Ralph Waldo Trine, In Tune With The Infinite, Chapter 1 – Preface, pg. 6.
____________________________________
“Within yourself lies the cause of whatever enters into your life. To come into the full realization of your own awakened interior powers is to be able to condition your life in exact accord with what you would have it.” – Ralph Waldo Trine, In Tune With The Infinite, Chapter 1 – Preface, pg. 4.
____________________________________
“The optimist has the power of seeing things in their entirety and in their right relations. The pessimist looks from a limited and a one-sided point of view. The one has their understanding illuminated by wisdom, the understanding of the other is darkened by ignorance. Each is building their world from within, and the result of the building are determined by the point of view of each The optimist, by their superior wisdom and insight, is making their own heaven, and in the degree that they make their own heaven are helping to make one for all the world beside. The pessimist, by virtue of their limitations, are making their own hell, and in the degree that they make their own hell are they helping to make one for all mankind.”– Ralph Waldo Trine, In Tune With The Infinite, Chapter 3 – Prelude, pg. 9.
____________________________________
“Faith is nothing more nor less than the operation of the thought forces in the form of an earnest desire, coupled with expectation as to its fulfillment. And in the degree that faith, the earnest desire thus sent out, is continually held to and watered by firm expectation, in just that degree does it either draw to itself, or does it change from the unseen into the visible, from the spiritual into the material, that for which it is sent.
Let the element of doubt or fear enter in, and what would otherwise be a tremendous force will be so neutralized that it will fail of its realization. Continually held to and continually watered by firm expectation, it becomes a force, a drawing power, that is irresistible and absolute, and the results will be absolute in direct proportion as it is absolute.
We shall find, as we are so rapidly beginning to find today, that the great things said in regard to faith, the great promises made in connection with it, are not mere vague sentimentalities, but are all great scientific facts, and rest upon great immutable laws.” – Ralph Waldo Trine, In Tune With The Infinite, Chapter 5 – The Supreme Fact Of Human Life, pg. 23.
____________________________________
“Fear and lack of faith go hand in hand. The one is born of the other. Tell me how much one is given to fear, and I will tell you how much they lack in faith.”– Ralph Waldo Trine, In Tune With The Infinite, Chapter 6 – Fullness Of Life – Bodily Health And Vigor, pg. 41.
____________________________________
Thoughts of weakness actualize weakness from within and attract it from without. Courage begets strength, fear begets weakness. And so courage begets success, fear begets failure. It is the man of faith, and hence of courage who is the master of circumstances, and who makes his or her power felt in the world. It is the man who lacks faith and who as a consequence is weakened and crippled by fears and forebodings, who is the creature of all passing occurrences.” – Ralph Waldo Trine, In Tune With The Infinite, Chapter 9 – The Realization Of Perfect Peace , pg. 84.
____________________________________
“We need more faith in everyday life – faith in the power that works for good, faith in the Infinite God, and hence faith in ourselves created in His image. And however things at times may seem to go, however dark at times appearances may be, the knowledge of the fact that ‘the Supreme Power has us in its charge as it has the suns and endless systems of worlds in space.’ will give us the supreme faith that all is well with us, just as all is well with the world. ‘Thou wilt keep in perfect peace whose mind is stayed on Thee.”– Ralph Waldo Trine, In Tune With The Infinite, Chapter 9 – The Realization Of Perfect Peace , pg. 85-86.
____________________________________
“We are then led into the full realization of the fact that all things work together for good to those that love the good. Then the fears and forebodings that have dominated us in the past will be transmuted into faith, and faith, when rightly understood and rightly used, is a force before which nothing can stand. Materialism leads naturally to pessimism. And how could it do otherwise? A knowledge of the Spiritual Power working in and through us as well as in and through all things, a power that works for righteousness, leads to optimism. Pessimism leads to weakness. Optimism leads to power. The one who is centered in Deity is the one who not only outrides every storm, but who through the faith, and so the conscious power that is in them, faces storm with the same calmness and serenity that they face fair weather, for they know well beforehand what the outcome will be.”– Ralph Waldo Trine, In Tune With The Infinite, Chapter 9 – The Realization Of Perfect Peace , pg. 86.
____________________________________
“Affirm this, believe it, expect it. If you do this in full faith, you will somehow feel the intuition the moment you come to the right one, and this intuition will be nothing more nor less than your own soul speaking to you. When it speaks then act at once.
If you get the situation and it does not prove to be exactly what you want, if you feel that you are capable of filling a better one, then the moment you enter upon it take the attitude of mind that this situation is the stepping-stone that will lead you to one that will be still better. Hold this thought steadily, affirm it, believe it, expect it, and all the time be faithful, absolutely faithful to the situation in which you are at present placed. If you are not faithful to it then the chances are that it will not be the stepping-stone to something better, but to something poorer. If you are faithful to it, the time may soon come when you will be glad and thankful, when you will rejoice that you lost your old position. “– Ralph Waldo Trine, In Tune With The Infinite, Chapter 11 – Plenty Of All Things – The Law Of Prosperity, pg. 104.
____________________________________
“Faith, absolute dogmatic faith, is the only law of true success. When we recognize the fact that a man carries their success or failure with them, and that it does not depend upon outside conditions, we shall come into the possession of powers that will quickly change outside conditions into agencies that make for success. When we come into this higher realization and bring our lives into complete harmony with the higher laws, we shall then be able so to focus and direct the awakened interior forces, that they will go out and return laden with that for which they are sent. We shall then be great enough to attract success, and it will not always be apparently just a little way ahead. We can then establish in ourselves a center so strong that instead of running hither and thither for this or that, we can stay at home and draw to us the conditions we desire. If we firmly establish and hold to this center, things will seem continually to come our way.” – Ralph Waldo Trine, In Tune With The Infinite, Chapter 11 – Plenty Of All Things – The Law Of Prosperity, pg. 106.
____________________________________
“The great fundamental principles of all religions are the same. They differ only in their minor details according to the various degrees of unfoldment of different people. I am sometimes asked To what religion do you belong?’ What religion? Why, bless you, there is only one religion, the ‘religion of the living God! There are, of course, the various creeds of the same religion arising from the various interpretations of different people, but they are all of minor importance. The more unfolded the soul the less important do these minor differences become. There are also, of course the various so-called religions. In reality, however, there is but one religion.
The moment we lose sight of this great fact we depart from the real, vital spirit of true religion and allow ourselves to be limited and bound by form. In the degree that we do this we build fences around ourselves which keep others away from us, and which also prevent our corning into the realization of universal truth; there is nothing worthy the name of truth that is not universal.
There is only one religion. ‘Whatever road I take joins the highway that leads to Thee,’ says the inspired writer in the Persian scriptures. ‘Broad is the carpet God has spread, and beautiful the colors He has given it.’ ‘The pure man respects every form of faith,’ says the Buddhist. ‘My doctrine makes no difference between high and low, rich and poor, like the sky, it has room for all, and like the water, it washes all alike’ The broad-minded see the truth in different religions; the narrow-minded see only the differences,’ says the Chinese.”– Ralph Waldo Trine, In Tune With The Infinite, Chapter 11 – Plenty Of All Things – The Law Of Prosperity, pg. 119.
____________________________________
“When one comes into and lives continually in the full, conscious realization of oneness with the Infinite Life and Power, then all else follows. This it is that brings the realization of such splendors, and beauties, and joys as a life that is thus related with the Infinite Power alone can know. This it is to come into the realization of heaven’s richest treasures while walking the earth. This it is to bring heaven down to earth, or rather to bring earth up to heaven. This it is to exchange weakness and impotence for strength; sorrows and sighings for joy; fears and forebodings for faith; longings for realizations. This it is to come into fullness of peace, power, and plenty. This it is to be in tune with the Infinite.”– Ralph Waldo Trine, In Tune With The Infinite, Chapter 11 – Plenty Of All Things – The Law Of Prosperity, pg. 124.
____________________________________
“There is something in the universe that responds to intrepid thinking. The POWER that holds and that moves the stars in their courses sustains, illumines and fights for the brave and the upright. Courage has power and magic in it. Faith and hope and courage are great producers – we cannot fail if we live always in the brave and cheerful attitude of mind and heart. He alone fails who gives up and lies down.”– Ralph Waldo Trine, In Tune With The Infinite, Chapter 11 – Plenty Of All Things – The Law Of Prosperity, pg. 124.
======================================
1. “It is interesting that Henry Ford, pioneer of mass produced automobiles, attributed his success directly to having read “In Tune with the Infinite.” After reading the book, Ford ordered it on mass, and distributed copies freely to high profile industrialists. It’s a true mark of how powerful the book was and still is!” Ralph Waldo Trine, http://ralphwaldotrine.wwwhubs.com/, (Accessed 11/01/2011). (Pringle also loves quoting Henry Ford.)
Some interesting comments have emerged on C3ChurchWatch in regards to Phil Pringle and his ‘your best life now’ god. We hope to find out more information on these claims.
It has been stated:
“when I was at School of Creative Arts, Phil told a story about a local council member who apparently vehemently opposed the approval for the current Oxford Falls campus. Phil drew the story out, claiming that this guy said that he would rather a tyre burning dumb [sic] be put there than Phil’s CCC church.
Phil then wrapped the story up by stating that this councillor died in a “mysterious car crash.” His moral to the story was that you don’t touch the Lord’s anointed. Phil was saying that the guy died as a result of opposing the C3 movement. Unbelievable but true.” – https://c3churchwatch.wordpress.com/about/#comment-669
“did you ever hear Phil Pringle suggest that two women died as a result of opposing his ministry (in NZ)? We heard him make that claim in the early years of CCC (now C3).” – https://c3churchwatch.wordpress.com/about/#comment-668
“The way we heard him tell the story is similar, a “subtle” implication that those who were opposing Phil were actually opposing God Himself. And the stories about Warringah Council? Heard plenty, though not that particular one.” – https://c3churchwatch.wordpress.com/about/#comment-674
If you have seen Phil Pringle in the past also make similar comments, if you have audio or video of him saying such things, please email us at c3churchwatch@hotmail.com. Or feel free to comment on this post.
Edit 10/01/2014: Phil Pringle has recently retold the story of the women who opposed him in his sermons on the 29th of December 2013. Please read.
NOTE: SCREEN GRABS WERE TAKEN ON THE 16/11/2012.
Some people still may be skeptical about Pringle’s connections to New Thought/Occult influences. 
Some interesting comments have emerged on C3ChurchWatch in regards to Phil Pringle and his ‘your best life now’ god. We hope to find out more information on these claims.
C3 Church Watch 