What Did Kong Hope To Achieve By Misleading CHC To Think They Would Own A Stadium?

02 Monday Sep 2013

Posted by Nailed Truth in C3 & Pringles Associations

Tags

2013 Global Presence Conference, c3, C3 Christian City Church Oxford Falls, c3 global, c3 oxford falls, C3i, ccc, ccc Presence Conference, ccci, cccof, CHC, Christian City Church, city harvest, City Harvest Church, global presence conference, Global Presence Conference 2013, Kong Hee, Phil Pringle, Presence Conference, prophesy, stadium, stadiums, visualise

This year at the 2013 C3 Global Presence Conference, Kong Hee made the following comment.

“I’ve learnt one thing about Pastor Phil: he’s a prophet of God. He’s very dangerous when he tells you that this building is created for you or built for you or developed for you. Because in 1995, he said the same thing to me. He said, “The SunTec Convention Center is- developed for you”.

And then, I just checked a video a few years- uh, just recently, Pastor Phil. In the year 2000 I think. Or 2001. You spoke to our entire congregation. And you said, “You know what? You guys are going to SunTec Convention Center”. And so we did. And all the troubles began.

So it’s all your fault, Pastor!” – Kong Hee, C3 Global Presence Conference, Day 1, Session 1, 2013.

Kong has made it clear that Phil Pringle has been saying that he will own the SunTec Convention Center. So why did Kong Hee mislead his congregation into thinking CHC would be moving into stadiums? Why was he purposely deceiving people rather than stating to his congregation that he had in mind of owning the Convention Center?

Here are some CHC members recalling a specific event where Kong Hee was misleading them into thinking they were going to moving into a future stadium.

“All the figures revealed about the expenditures for “Crossover” project are mind blowing!

What irks me is that Pastor Kong preached that the Arise and Build was for building God a great house, he showed pictures of huge stadiums even just prior to the point of announcing Suntec. And so we gave our best, our bonuses, our savings, our holidays.

Now we hear from their own mouths that all the money went into the Crossover. We’ve been executive members for more than 10 years and this is the first time we hear about our BF money being used for other purposes. We had to hear it from the courts!

To set the record straight, we never knew or even agreed for such use of the BF. We were all hoodwinked. We were all lied to. This is criminal. Since they have already admitted to using our BF in this manner, not for its original intended purpose, we are now considering a class action suit to get our money back plus damages. If Eng Han can get his all back, so should we. We don’t need to wait for the trail to be over. Anyone else with us? Any lawyers here to advise?

Looking at all the finances for the Crossover, something looks fishy. The amounts seems unusually inflated even for Hollywood standards. It obviously included non crossover expenses like Kong’s travel of $700k. I can’t help wonder if the amount paid to the people to work with Sun was exactly as stated or there is a mark up, commissions and middle man fees for a invisible go between, with the money lining the pockets of Kong and his team. They are surely capable of that!”

Source: CHC Confessions, Faecbook, https://www.facebook.com/CHCConfessions/posts/660357897316924, 30/08/2013. (Accessed 02/09/2013.)

Another CHC member wrote:

City Harvest Stadium?!?

After Pastor Kong Hee shared last week, about no longer just settling for any ol’ auditorium or concert hall… I think it is in the heart-beat of every City Harvest Church member:
GIVE US THAT STADIUM!!!

Hahaha!!! Especially when Pastor showed us the pictures of all the photos… WOW! It is absolutely mind-boggling & faith-stretching… but at the same time, very exciting!

This is my absolute favourite…

The Allianz Arena in Munich… Just look at the size of that!

So it is time for us all to see the great JOY ahead of us! 🙂

Source: Posted by Sandra, City Harvest Stadium?!?, http://sanses.com/2007/10/city-harvest-stadium-2/,31/10/2007. (Accessed 02/09/2013.)

We think the video we have below is what these commentors may be referring too. (Pay special attention to Kong encouraging people to use the New Age technique of visualisation.)

A Good Example Of Pringle Teaching Dishonestly

24 Wednesday Jul 2013

Posted by Nailed Truth in Pringle's Behaviour, Pringle's Doctrine/Gospel, Pringle's Influences, Pringle's Language, Pringle's Methods

≈ 7 Comments

Tags

c3, c3 church, c3 cult, c3 global, c3 iglobal, C3i, c3i global, c3iglobal, ccc, ccc global, ccc oxford falls, cccglobal, ccci, cult, deceit, deceitful, deceitfulness, deception, deceptive, false, false teacher, false teaching, global, lies, lying, Phil Pringle, Pringle, tithe, tithes, tithing

Before tackling this article, please read the following:

Pringle Mocks Corrector

More Christians in his church should tell Phil Pringle to “stick to the bible”. The topic of money is a common message preached at C3 Church. While we do not hear the faithful gospel preached of Christ and Him crucified, it is impossible to escape C3’s ten minute money-grubbing message. People need to face the facts. Phil Pringle has an unhealthy obsession with money and making up fables.

He clearly does not put his faith in God. Rather, Pringle puts faith in his works and finances. Question Pringle’s prosperity gospel and there is a good chance you will be labeled, criticised, ostracised, demonised or even isolated by the leadership. The tithe doctrine specifically is Pringle’s golden calf. In the past, the tithe has been called by C3 leadership the “foundation” or “cornerstone” to every believers life.

This false doctrine is both binding and destructive. This keeps poor Christians in C3 stuck in their poverty. This false doctrine has divided families and churches. Still, Phil Pringle conveniently refuses to examine the historicity and the biblical truth of the tithe. This doctrine helps no one except the false and deceptive ministry of Phil Pringle. Yet he insists Christians must tithe.

In a Sunday night sermon titled ‘Financial Excellence Part 2’ (22/05/2011), Phil Pringle slandered (blasphemed) God. He did so by putting words in God’s mouth. Pringle unashamedly went out of his way to mislead his congregation on his false tithe doctrine. Phil Pringle invented his own theology to convince and intimidate his congregation to continually financially support his ministry.

Before you read and listen to this segment of Phil Pringle, we wish to warn you of following deceptive methods false teachers like himself use on Christians.

WARNING 1: Always hold the pastor accountable to the words he uses. If he his playing with words, DO NOT LISTEN TO HIM.

WARNING 2: If a pastor is wrongfully confusing what God is saying to what he is saying, DO NOT LISTEN TO HIM.

WARNING 3: If a pastor does not read the biblical text to justify his claims, DO NOT LISTEN TO HIM. (i.e., if he tells you a biblical story and hi-jacks the biblical narrative for his own means.).

WARNING 4: Always check what the pastor is saying in the NAME of God to what God actually says in His Word.

WARNING 5: Always make sure that the Pastor is using biblical reasoning to teach you and NOT emotional manipulation (e.g., guilt, group intimidation).

Below, Pringle breaks all the rules of how a pastor should teach, behave and rightly approach biblical texts.

PRINGLE PLAYING WITH WORDS

In the below transcript you will see Pringle mislead the congregation by calling his financial insights to the bible a “bible study”. How can Pringle call what he taught a “bible study” when he never read the texts in Joshua and Genesis? He never even gave biblical references. This was not a bible study. (A bible study actually involves the pastor explaining what the bible means by reading it and handling the contexts of what is said correctly.)

Throughout the below segment, Pringle kept redefining what the tithe was in very obscure ways. He does this to convince Christians that the tithe is biblical. Ask yourself: is the tithe continually defined by Pringle as ‘a tenth’ or something else? Does it keep changing itself meaning to suit Pringle’s theology or agenda?

PRINGLE PLAYING ‘GOD-AND-SWITCH’ AS IN ‘BAIT-AND-SWITCH’

To actually grasp what Pringle is doing in this segment of teaching, please watch the video at the bottom of this article (one minute in).

Good preachers clearly distinguish when God is speaking through the scriptures. They make sure that their voice is separate from God’s so no man is confused between a man’s words and God’s Word. Not so with Pringle. Pringle at one point speaks as though God is saying something through the scriptures. However, the listener can get easily confused over either God or Pringle speaking to you.

It was incredibly difficult to transcribe this video. In particularly when Pringle said,

“If you give me that [Jericho] then the rest of the land is yours. That’s the first fruits, that’s the tithe. That’s the tree in the garden for Adam.”

Was Pringle telling us this or was he telling us this is what God was saying in the book of Joshua?

PRINGLE AVOIDING THE BIBLE AT ALL COST

Using the books of Genesis and Joshua, Pringle starts arguing his case for the tithe. He AVOIDS reading these texts to support his argument. Instead, Pringle hi-jacks the narrative, lies about God saying things He never said and makes stuff up according to his personal pet theories.

If Pringle read out Genesis 2-3 or Joshua 6-8, then any hearer would realise that the tithe is not even mentioned in these ancient documents. You don’t think Pringle knows this? And what he says isn’t new. The sermon ‘Financial Excellence’ is based off his book ‘Keys To Financial Excellence’. His teaching has been expanded and extracted from his book ‘Keys To Financial Excellence’:

Pringle’s Curse Attack Gets A Wiki-Whack

Phil Pringle not only makes up his own theology in regards to the city of Jericho being a tithe, he also teaches that the Tree of Knowledge of Good and evil is the tithe. Once again, if anyone was reading Genesis 2-3, they would see that Pringle is not honest in handling the God’s Word.

PRINGLE’S MESSAGE

Below is part of the transcript we just critiqued and the video.

“So here’s the Lord saying, “You’re robbing”. You’re taking something that belongs to God. It’s the tithe. You’re sticking it in your pocket. [Inaudible] Bless me. It aint gonna happen.

There’s a guy called Achan in the scripture. And look- If I’m stirred up about anything to do with this message, it is this point I’m making right now. Because, here’s the thing, Achan- does anybody know who Achan is? Achan?

Ok. Here’s the picture. Real quick little bible study.

Joshua comes to Jericho. God says, “March around the thing- seven days. Seven days, seven times. Shout. PHEOW! The whole thing will collapse. But,” he says, “that city is the tithe.”

“Don’t touch anything in the city.” It belongs to God. The whole lot. It was ‘under the ban’ was the literal words. Devoted to destruction. “If you give me that then the rest of the land is yours. That’s the firstfruits, that’s the tithe. That’s the tree in the garden for Adam.”

It’s the firstborn of every animal born on the earth. It’s the first. It’s the tithe.
‘kay. So everybody does it.

“Phew! Don’t touch it! Don’t touch!” Achan sees a big lump of gold. He says, “I’ll take that”. Puts in his back pocket. Goes into his tent. Digs a hole. Puts it in. Hides it in a couple of garments. [Inaudible.] Digs a hole. Hides it.

The next- they’re ready to go to the next town, Ai. Little town. A-i. That’s a little name, three thousand people, bam! Just go up there. Josh is- says ‘Oh, we wont even send the whole army up. We’ll kill these guys in no time at all’. Bam! So he goes up. They get defeated.

Israel gets defeated. About thirty seven of their own soldiers die. Achan doesn’t. One of the soldiers. He doesn’t. They come back. Josh is on his face. He says, “God! How did that happen? We took Jericho with big thick walls! Then we got beaten at Ai, by a nobody group!”

God says, “Somebody took the tithe.”

He says, “What do you mean?” He says, “You gotta find out who did this.” So they find out. Do a little investigation.
“Achan. What are you doing?”

“Woah!” … This is why I’m stirred up about it. Because it’s not about just me individually. It’s about the whole church. I’ve a corporate responsibility to the entire Kingdom of God. To the whole body of Christ.” Phil Pringle, Ps Phil Pringle: Financial Excellence Part 2, http://www2.myc3church.net/videos/ps-phil-pringle-financial-excellence-part-2, Sermon (PM), 22/05/2011.

Below you can watch him say this in the snippet about one minute in.

PRINGLE LYING TO PEOPLE ABOUT GOD

Phil Pringle has a shepherds responsibility to handle God’s Word correctly and NOT lie and slander God and His word for financial gain. If anyone did do a “bible study” reading Joshua 6-8 while Pringle preached, they would notice Pringle made up things God never said.

God didn’t say,

“that city [Jericho] is the tithe.”

God did not say,

“If you give me that then the rest of the land is yours. That’s the firstfruits, that’s the tithe. That’s the tree in the garden for Adam. It’s the firstborn of every animal born on the earth. It’s the first. It’s the tithe. ‘kay.”

When Joshua consulted God in regards to his military losing the battle at Ai, God did not say to Joshua,

“Somebody took the tithe.”

Phil Pringle is making God say and teach things God never said. In other words, Phil Pringle is blaspheming by taking the Lord’s name in vain.

Firstly, this false teaching of the tithe goes against the heart of the Father, goes against Jesus and His finished work on Calvary and the Holy Spirit. Why? It is through Christ we find blessing and freedom away from the curse and condemnation of death, God’s Law and His wrath. As Christians we do not receive the Holy Spirit, God’s promise and blessing by our works. The entire letter to the Galatians makes this case. This is blasphemy no matter which way you look at it, again taking the Lord’s name in vain.

PRINGLE USING INTIMIDATION AND CROWD CONTROL

Pringle lets his emotions run in this portion of his talk. His tone is accusative against Christians for not tithing. If you watch further beyond the transcript, he starts personally confessing his works and his faithfulness to the tithe.

This does not stop Pringle teaching to his congregation that if individuals aren’t tithing, they are accused by God of “robbing,” cursed by God Himself and blocking the progress of his C3 church movement. This is This is why he says,

“I’m stirred up about it. Because it’s not about just me individually.”

The onus is on non-tithers to do what Pringle says or else. His lies mixed with his intimidation is in our opinion bullying. It is of our opinion he is using misleading tactics to force non-tithers in his congregation to tithe, using his own congregation against them. Think of it this way. After this sermon, how would members react to people who say they don’t tithe? After this sermon, do you think non-tithers would dispute this teaching against other members? Do you think they will feel isolated and alone in their thoughts on this matter?

Overall, this is a good example how a false teacher would teach and behave behind a pulpit. Phil Pringle’s false message and deceitful methods are clearly evident in this sermon.

Kong Hee Casting A “Power of Confession” Over Steven Furtick At Presence Conference 2013

02 Sunday Jun 2013

Posted by Nailed Truth in C3 & Pringles Associations

≈ 24 Comments

Tags

c3 church, c3 global, c3 global presence conference 2013, c3 international, C3 Presence Conference, C3 Presence Conference 2013, C3i, ccc church, ccc global, CCC Global Presence Conference 2013, ccc Presence Conference, CCC Presence Conference 2013, cccglobal, ccci, City Harvest Church, Global Presence Conference 2013, Kong Hee, power of confession, Presence Conference, Presence Conference 2013, Presence Global, Singapore

If you are still questioning if Kong Hee is a Word of Faith heretic, here is Kong at Presence Conference encouraging thousands of Christians to cast a “power of confession” on Steven Furtick to speak at City Harvest Church, Singapore.

We would like to remind our readers that this is not a Christian practice and must NOT be practiced.

Kong isn’t laughing. If you watch the clip, Kong is very determined to get Steven Furtick to speak at his church. The force is strong with the Kong.

We may be looking at doing an article on this if there are any questions as to why this is not a Christian practice.

An Analysis Of Kong Hee’s Money-Scheming ‘Church’

10 Friday May 2013

Posted by Nailed Truth in C3 & Pringles Associations

≈ 11 Comments

Tags

analysis, c3 church, c3 global, C3i, c3iglobal, C3OF, cash, ccc global, ccci, ccciglobal, cccof, Christian City Church, Christian City Church Oxford Falls, City Harvest Church, con, cult, cults, health and wealth gospel, Kong Hee, money, Phil Pringle, prosperity gospel, rort, scam, scandal, Suntec, Suntec City, wealth, word of faith, word of faith cult, word of faith cults

When people critique Kong Hee’s Church they are also critiquing Phil Pringle and his church. We know personally that Kong Hee sees Phil Pringle in an infallible light as a personal master, mentor, pope and Prophet of God.

Kong Hee To Phil Pringle: “You created this mess! You’ve Got To Come And Help Us Fix It”

Not only is Kong Hee a disciple of Phil Pringle, he imitates Phil Pringle in many ways in teachings, conferences, service layouts, financial events and advertising, etc. As Kong Hee said,

“Many people come to City Harvest Church and they look at our church. Look at our pulpit. Our Rise and Build. And they say, “Hey! Why is it that in Australia they kinda copy after you?”

‘Thinking Free And Fair’ offers their analysis of Kong Hee’s City Harvest Church,

An analysis into the wealth of City Harvest Church

Update: I have updated this analysis with a new article in the aftermath of the Pastor’s arrest.

Although I am aware that City Harvest is one of the richest churches in Singapore, I am still shocked that it is rich enough to pay SGD310 million for a stake in Suntec City. Nevertheless, an entity which is able to amass such wealth is certainly worth studying. I was determined to understand the secrets to the church’s wealth.

I apologize upfront if the points raised give offense to loyal followers of City Harvest Church. Please regard this article as a business analysis of the factors that contribute to the wealth of City Harvest Church, not as an insinuation that the Church got rich through questionable means. The fact is that CHC is very rich and this makes for a fascinating academic exercise to examine its sources of wealth. Just treat it as a business case study. I have tried my best to stick to the facts. Please correct me if there are factual mistakes. However, if there are differences in opinions, please disagree with courtesy.

1. Clever packaging of Sunday services

The income of a church is dependent on the tithes collected (10% of income from church-members). Therefore, the earning power of a church is highly dependent on its ability to retain its existing church members and attract new ones. The larger the church membership, the greater its earnings.

I watched a sample of CHC weekend service on its website. Compared to the boring Sunday classes I attended as a kid, CHC church service was most refreshing (Watch “The 10 Laws Of The Harvest”). The beginning part resembles a rock concert with good singing and enthusiastic audience. It is an entertaining way to enjoy your Sunday mornings. Going to church becomes a weekly event to look forward to rather than a chore to attend to.

With church services so well packaged for its customers, its customer retention rate and new customer acquisition figures should look good.

2. Extra revenue in the form of advertisements, sales of CDs

This church is unlike the other churches I know. It generates extra revenue through advertisements during its Sunday service(watch the videos). It sells audio CDs on its website. There is an online shopping cart for convenience to those who want to buy online.

3. Efficient collection of tithes

Church-members can pay their tithe online via credit card, eNets or even Giro!! Once members started donating using Giro, the earnings quality of the church improves. Donation collected via Giro tend to be more stable.

With a globalised economy, people travel round the world a lot and may miss Sunday services. In the past, the churches will lose income when these members fail to turn up to pay their tithe. Now, with online payment, they can continue collecting the tithe even when the church-member is working overseas for an extended period of time. With Giro, the church can continue collecting tithes for a few more months even when the member leaves the church as people have a habit of forgetting what they pay on Giro.

4. 30-fold, 60-fold, 100-fold returns on your church donations

This is where the genius of CHC lies and the secret to its superior earning power. In fact, I have yet to encounter any public-listed company on SGX, HKSE, NYSE, Nasdaq that demonstrates better potential.

The pastor preaches that God will give 30-fold, 60-fold, 100-fold returns on your tithe. But, you have to be generous in your donations first so that you will receive in harvest proportions. I guess that is the origin of the name City Harvest. Please watch the video “The 10 Laws Of The Harvest” yourself in its entirety and interpret for yourself.

It is a message that cleverly uses an astute understanding of human nature to maximize profits. If I were a CHC member, I will be tempted to increase my tithe as much as possible. Not mincing my words, I am doing it out of pure greed. I do not think I will be alone. It is perfectly fine if members of CHC strongly disagree and thinks that I am not representative for most of them. After all, I can only speak for myself.

5. Quality of customers

With the 100-fold return message, the kind of church members attracted will be most conducive to profit-making. Money-minded people will be attracted to the church. These money-minded people tend to be ambitious and have a great desire to make lots of money. Millionaire minds have a higher chance to become rich. Hence, the quality of customers that CHC attracts are of the highest quality. The richer the church-member, the higher is the church’s tithe per member.

Customer quality will be enhanced through the passage of time due to survivor bias. Suppose out of this pool of Millionaire-Mind Christians, 50% become satisfactorily rich and the remaining 50% still unsatisfactorily middle-class. The 50% who got rich will donate even more because they think their source of wealth comes from their donations. It is most unlikely they will cut back on their tithes because they will be afraid God will punish them by cutting back the returns. If they are not afraid, the church will be there to warn them not to do so. The remaining 50% who did not get rich will be disillusioned and probably leave the church. The loss is of little significance to the church. These people are not rich and their tithes will not amount to much.

Many Christians will be disgusted with the concept of using tithes to get rich. These people will probably leave the church after attending a few Sunday services. Again, the loss is of little significance to CHC. These people will not be highly profitable to the church even if they are rich because they are not going to tithe as much as the others who believe their tithes is the way to wealth.

To the credit of the Pastor, I think he has devised a wonderful process of filtering out non-profitable customers and sucking in the lucrative ones. There is only so much physical space that a church can have to service its church-members. To maximize profits, the church has to ensure that each unit of space is used for servicing lucrative customers.

6. Kill off competition

CHC has tremendous economic moat that kills off competition. In the video “The 10 Laws of The Harvest”, the Pastor cited Law #5 “Your Seed must be planted in Good Ground” which is an effective weapon in killing off his competition – the smaller churches. Many Christians feel that they ought to donate to the needy, smaller churches rather than rich mega-churches like CHC. The Pastor’s argument is that you do not get good returns like 100-fold in the small churches. You have to donate to mega-churches to maximize returns on your tithe because they have a track record (rich church members). In other words, the seed is not planted in good ground when you donate to the small churches. In his own words, “I don’t always give to the neediest but to the ground that will give the greatest yield”. To illustrate his point, he used an analogy on weak banks and strong banks. You do not deposit your money in a weak bank because it desperately needs fresh funds to survive. You deposit your money in a strong bank which invests your money wisely and yields good returns.

The church has an iron-grip on its members who believe its message. As illustrated previously, its customer base is of the highest quality. This is its track record. Existing church-members will definitely not move to another smaller, needier church with poorer track record.

It has a very strong economic moat as it is very hard for its competitors to get its customers to switch over.

7. Providing a place where the rich can network

As the Pastor said, his church provides a good ground on which you can grow your riches. Rightly so, indeed. For property agents or insurance agents trying to hit their sales quota, City Harvest Church will be an ideal place to hunt for lucrative clients. This church concentrates several rich and money-minded people into a single location. The church offers a unique advantage to sell things. In a religious setting, people tend less to be on their guard and can be more easily persuaded to part with their money.

Businessmen also like to network in places where there are rich and powerful people who will come in handy in future. The Pastor has done a good job in gathering such people in his church and it makes good sense to make use of this advantage by joining the church.

The rich will attract more rich and the gathering moss snowballs to provide an ever-rising pool of donation to the church.

8. Preach what people like to hear.

As a teenager, I was discouraged when I read Bible verses like Matthew 19:23-24 “I tell you the truth, it is hard for a rich man to enter the kingdom of heaven. Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” and Matthew 6:24 “No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and wealth.”

It seems like if I become rich, I will be condemned to hell.

In the video “Rich God? Poor God?”, the Pastor preaches that it is absolutely ok to be rich. Some prophets of God were very rich. (Abraham, David, Solomon)

There is nothing more musical to a money-minded person than to hear that God is on your side in your pursuit of money. The church-members who are more money-minded will love this and donate even more.

9. God pays for the returns, not the church.

The church collects the money, but God pays for the returns. The church does not need to pay a single cent for the 30-fold, 60-fold, 100-fold returns on the donations.

This is as good as you do the work for me, but not only do I not pay you, I shall also collect your salary. You toil and sweat, but I shall eat your bread. God must surely be a miracle worker and people will pay handsomely for his service. I cannot think of a more advantageous economic position to be in to be able to collect money rendered by a miracle worker.

10. Social pressure to conform in church settings and ease of influence

If everyone around you donates, it is hard not to. When everyone else makes sacrifice, the one who does not will look like an outcast. There is tremendous pressure to conform in such a herd setting.

11. Tremendous future earning power

Take a look at the congregation and you will notice the large number of young people. The income growth of young people is the fastest in the population. In the Pastor’s words, “You may be poor today, but you will not be poor all your life”. That is a long-term business plan in cultivating its customers.

Therefore, if CHC can be viewed as a growth stock, its prospects are very bright as its young customers will accelerate its earnings.

12. Stable earnings in times of depression

Besides being a growth stock, CHC can also be viewed as a defensive and safe stock. People pray hardest when they fall in hard times. Strangely, some people have an urge to tithe when they are in financial troubles.

In fact, in the video (The 10 Laws Of The Harvest), a couple came on stage. They talked about the dire straits they were in when they started out. Things change when God challenged them to GIVE themselves out of poverty (exact words from the speaker). Despite not having any money, they still pledged $250 to the building fund. In his own words again, “we often emptied our savings to give to the House of God knowing that this will be the answer to our financial problems”. Hence, not only will the church earnings be stable in times of depression, it may even grow.

13. Using Prosperity as a theme to appeal to customers

The Pastor preaches Prosperity Gospel which revolves around money. His business genius lies in choosing this theme for his church. Money has universal appeal. Everyone worships money regardless of race, culture, age, gender, sexual orientation. In one fell swoop, he has enlarged his market to cover the entire world. It is much easier to convert people to your belief by dangling money and promising great prosperity. After all, who does not love money?

By enlarging his potential market catchment with a greater chance of increasing membership, more donations will flow in.

14. Tax benefits as church is registered as a charity

This creates a huge, unfair advantage compared to all other businesses. This is what landed CHC in controversy. Enough has been said.

If one day the Pastor switches to become a businessman, I will definitely consider investing in the company that he heads and founds.

If City Harvest Church is listed on the Singapore Stock Exchange, I will certainly buy it. It will be one stock that I am confident of hitting a return of 30-fold, 60-fold, 100-fold returns.

PS: People tend not to question critically when it comes to religion. A charming smooth talker can easily sway minds with his interpretation of the Bible. In the final analysis, Faith is about simply believing. You cannot approach it scientifically because there is no way to test religious theories using the scientific method. We will only know the real truth when judgment day comes.

The danger is that there is no accountability on the part of the preacher on whether his teachings are true or not. Even he himself cannot be sure that his interpretations is 100% correct. Given human nature, the interpretations will tend to be self-serving. In fact, it is not only dangerous to the students but to the teacher as well. People will believe their own lies if it yields tempting benefits. That was how Wall Street drank its own Kool-Aid.

While I respect the Pastor for his business savvy, I cannot agree with his interpretations of the Bible. I pray for good health, peace and harmony for my family. Money-minded as I am, I am not comfortable with commercializing my relationship with God by asking for money. The Christian God that I know from my own reading of the Bible is not 财神爷. Of course, if God wants to drop money from heaven on me, I will be more than happy to embrace it.

Source: By think-free-and-fair, An analysis into the wealth of City Harvest Church, http://thinking-free-and-fair.blogspot.sg/2010/03/analysis-into-wealth-of-city-harvest.html, 29/03/2010. (Accessed 09/05/2013.)

Pringle Should Be Worried About His Associations More Than His Critics (Who is ‘Pastor’ Alex Abraham?)

07 Tuesday May 2013

Posted by Nailed Truth in C3 & Pringles Associations

≈ 3 Comments

Tags

Abraham Alex Tanuseputra, Alex, Alex Abraham, asia conference, Bernal, Bethany, Bethany Church, c3 church, c3 church international, ccc, ccci, CHC, Chew, Cho, City Harvest Church, city news, Dr. Paul Kim, Eldred, Guneratnam, Indonesia, itinerary, Ken Eldred, Pastor Abraham Alex, Pastor Abraham Alex Tanuseputra, Phil Pringle, Prince Guneratnam, Pringle, Richard Bernal, Rp 4.7 trillion, Sharon Chew, The Memory Of The Cross

Pastor Phil Pringle of C3 Church Oxford Falls, is on the ‘Church Growth International’ (CGI) board with Pastor Kong Hee of City Harvest Church. Alongside other CHC staff or members, Kong Hee is facing charges of mishandling church funds of up to S$50 million. The CGI was founded by David Yonggi Cho (of Yoido Full Gospel Church). David Yonggi Cho is under investigation for mishandling church funds of up to US$14.72 million. Also on this board is Pastor Alex Abraham of Bethany Church, Indonesia.

City News reported in 2010,

“To introduce Cho, Dr. Paul Kim, executive director of CGI, took to the stage to introduce the Korean pastors and disciples of Cho, calling them his spiritual children. He introduced the board members from CGI who were present, among them Phil Pringle, Prince Guneratnam, Richard Bernal and Ken Eldred. Kim also announced that Alex Abraham from Indonesia had been invited to join them as the newest board member.” – By Sharon Chew, Asia Conference, The Memory Of The Cross, City News, http://www.citynews.sg/2010/06/the-memory-of-the-cross/, Posted on 05/05/2010. (Accessed 06/05/2013.) (Emphasis ours.)

As a new member of CGI, it appears Phil Pringle decided to speak at Pastor Abraham Alex Tanuseputra’s church.

30^th May 2010
Ps Phil speaking for Dr. Alex Abraham’s
Bethany Graha Nginden, Surabaya Indonesia
6.30am, 9.30am, 1.30pm, 5.00pmJl.Nginden Intan Timur I/29
Surabaya Jawa Timur Indonesia
Ph: +62 31 5936880
www.bethanygraha.org

– My Itinerary, http://philpringle.wordpress.com/my-itinerary/, 2010. (Accessed 06/05/2013.)

So why are we looking at Pastor Abraham Alex Tanuseputra of Bethany Church?

Recently IndoBoom reported the following about Pastor Alex Abraham,

Church Pastor Embezzles 4.7 Trillion from Church Offerings

by Ted on Thursday, February 21, 2013

From Kompas and Surabaya Pagi:

Pastor Abraham Alex Reported for Embezzling Rp 4.7 Trillion [~US$ 500 million]

Who could have guessed and predicted that a priest’s great name could be held as a guarantee for being free of financial problems? Pastor Abraham Alex Tanuseputra, who has recently been glorified as the founding father of Bethany Church, allegedly embezzled Rp 4.7 trillion from Bethany’s congregation. “I have consulted at the Indonesian National Police Headquarters level. From the data that I have already presented to the investigator, Pastor Abraham Alex is not only suspected of embezzling the church’s funds, but there is also a strong indication that he’s involved in money laundering,” expressed George Handiwiyanto, SE, SH, MH, to the Special Police Criminal Investigation Directorate for the East Java area.

George predicts that this criminal report against Pastor Abraham Alex will take the public by storm because that person is a pastor. “The congregation’s money is given to God and not for personal expenses or even distributed to family members,” expressed the lawyer who is also a Christian. He emphasizes that this criminal report is to remind all those who manage the finances for congregations of any religion to be trustful and to not use it for business or family purposes. Asked whether the evidence related to these embezzlement and money laundering allegations were already prepared, George replied emphatically, “I am a servant of the Lord who demands truth and justice. So I do not mess around. Moreover, in the judicial system, the evidence must be prepared completely and accurately. Insha Allah, I’ll officially submit it soon to the investigators,” added the man who is known to enjoy entertainment, sports and social activities.

According to George Handiwiyanto, the scandal regarding the mismanagement of Bethany Indonesian Church’s funds, which is located in the residential area of Nginden Intan Timur, Surabaya, has been going on for quite some time. “In 2007, there were some rumors about it but my clients wanted to settle it internally as it was related to the church and its congregation. Since there had been no good faith from Pastor Abraham Alex, therefore to seek justice and the truth, in the end my client who is also a pastor reported this to the Ministry of Religious Affairs. However, Pastor Abraham Alex was not present during the arbitration. So now I escalate this to both the criminal and civil courts so people can learn that one can’t hide the truth regardless of how smart a person is” added this middle-aged man.

Pastor Alex Abraham Joint Sermon with Benny Hinn in Bethany Church Nginden Surabaya:

Source: By Ted, Church Pastor Embezzles 4.7 Trillion from Church Offerings, Pastor Abraham Alex Reported for Embezzling Rp 4.7 Trillion [~US$ 500 million], http://www.indoboom.com/2013/stories/church-pastor-embezzles-4-7-trillion-from-church-offerings.html, Thursday, February 21, 2013. (Accessed 06/05/2013.)

Edit (07/05/2013):

“Pastor Kong Hee of City Harvest Church preached at Bethany on 27 January 2013. After the service, Pastor Kong Hee invited Pastor Abraham Alex to pray a prayer of blessing over him. In that prayer, Pastor Abraham Alex prophesied 2 things over Pastor Kong:

1) He will be delivered in September 2013
2) He will fully own (100%) Suntec, paid in full.”

– REAL Truth Disclosed TLC, https://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=348358431936702&id=301569623279202, 24/02/2013. (Accessed 06/05/2013.) [Prophecy was referred to this now removed link at 1:54:00 onwards:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v_pflSzX780, “Bethany Nginden 01 27 20…”]

We have noticed similar behaviour between Pastor Abraham Alex Tanuseputra and Phil Pringle. Both Pringle and Abraham prophesied over Kong Hee that he will completely own SunTec City and that he would be ‘delivered’ from his current circumstances.

Kong Hee To Phil Pringle: “You created this mess! You’ve Got To Come And Help Us Fix It”

Prophet Pringle Plundering People’s Pockets For Kong Hee’s Cause

Since Phil Pringle said he preaches at CHC so Kong Hee can travel to other churches to explain his circumstances and gain ‘support’, this should make Christians question if Kong Hee also gained financial support from Alex Abraham’s church.

Kong Hee To Phil Pringle: “You created this mess! You’ve Got To Come And Help Us Fix It”

14 Sunday Apr 2013

Posted by Nailed Truth in C3 & Pringles Associations, Pringle's Prophecies

≈ 10 Comments

Tags

bishop, c3, c3 church, c3 church oxford falls, c3 oxford falls, c3global, C3i, catholicism, ccc, cccglobal, ccci, CHC, City Harvest Church, city news, Hee, kong, Kong Hee, papacy, Phil Pringle, pope, prophecy, prophet, prophetic friendship, Sun Ho

THE KONG HEE AND PHIL PRINGLE CONNECTION

In April 2010, the Commission of Charities investigated Kong Hee and his church’s purchase of SunTec City Convention Center. Later in 2010, new investigations were underway which led to Kong Hee’s arrest in 2012. Alongside Kong, other church officials were arrested in relation to financial misconduct involving sums of up to S$50.6 million, a truly sad state of affairs for a Church to find itself in.

But have people considered the amount of pressure that has been put on by his spiritual mentor, Phil Pringle? Phil Pringle is the founder of the C3 Church Movement located in Oxford Falls Sydney, Australia.

Examine how Kong Hee sees Phil Pringle. Discover how Phil Pringle led Kong Hee under supposed ‘prophecies’ to purchase SunTec City Convention Center and to further his wife’s music career in the CrossOver Project.

We have gathered quotes and audio’s from Kong Hee that reveal just how much pressure he was put under to obey the prophecies of Phil Pringle. As you read and listen to Kong Hee, ask yourself these questions:

If you were Kong Hee and believed that Phil Pringle was speaking the very words of God, (and that you must do your part to fulfill God’s Word through Pringle), how would you feel if Phil Pringle prophesied that you were to do outrageous things?
How would you feel if you believed you were told by God to buy SunTec and support your wife’s music career in China?
Would you not feel that you are to do everything within your power to make sure that you don’t let God down?

Faith, according to the prevalent misunderstanding of so many, is shown in the willingness to do “audacious things”. And as you will see Pringle challenged Kong Hee to do some pretty “audacious”, some would say foolish, “things”.

A “PROPHETIC” FRIENDSHIP?

To understand the nature of Kong Hee and Phil Pringle’s relationship we need to learn how they perceive each other. Towards the beginning of Kong and Pringle’s friendship, did Pringle see that Kong Hee’s City Harvest Church had great potential? Did he see the opportunity of partnering with Kong Hee?

“I came up, and everybody was so on fire, and I thought this church is going to grow like crazy, so I thought I’m going to become a part of what this is, by making myself available.” – Phil Pringle, Faithful Friend, City News, http://www.citynews.sg/2011/04/faithful-friend/, 08/04/2011. (Accessed 06/01/2012).

An unusually close “prophetic” relationship rapidly developed between the two men. It is interesting to see how Pringle views his personal prophetic authority in his relationship with Kong Hee:

“Being prophetic is part of the relationship. I probably might have said five times to Kong—really, from the early days, every time we drive past Suntec City, I would say, “You’re going to be in that building.” Not at any other building. I just sort of felt that. And here we are, moving in, into the fulfillment of a prophecy, which is kind of “Wow!”” – Phil Pringle, Faithful Friend, City News, http://www.citynews.sg/2011/04/faithful-friend/, 08/04/2011. (Accessed 06/01/2012).)

“Being prophetic is part of the relationship?” What precisely did this concept mean for the relationship between Kong and Pringle? Can we know? Does this “prophetic status” on Pringle explain why Kong Hee has such an unhealthy view of his mentor?

KONG HEE’S SPIRITUAL MENTOR

Just how close is Phil Pringle to Kong Hee? From reading his statements, it seems that Kong holds a very high view of Phil Pringle indeed. As friends, it’s nice to know that Kong Hee has a close friendship and high regard for his friend but the language is surely rather over-stated.

“So again- I couldn’t have done it without the man of God. So you have really an amazing, amazing, amazing Pastor. And anything- you know, he knows that I would do anything for him. And he would lay down his life for me as well. And so what a privilege it is to be associated with the Pringle’s.” – Kong Hee, Kuala Lumpur Conference, Session 4, August 23-26/08/2011.

It is clear that he highly admires Phil Pringle, regarding him as a ‘master’ of Christian disciplines; furthermore referring to to him humorously as a “Jedi Master”,

“I learnt bible meditation from the greatest Jedi Master of bible meditation, from Pastor Phil Pringle himself. I learnt that twenty over years ago, right here in KL [Kuala Lumpur]… And I saw the master at work.” – Kong Hee, Kuala Lumpur Conference, Session 4, August 23-26/08/2011.

Kong Hee also praises Phil Pringle as a “great pastor, mentor”. While it is a good thing for a young pastor to have an older, more experienced man as a mentor, in hindsight Kong may be said to have made a rather unwise choice. He said of Pringle:

“Well tonight, we are really blessed. We are so blessed to be under the ministry of a great pastor, mentor, that’s one of the most balanced men that I’ve known for all my life. From day one, when I first met him, Pastor Phil told me that moderation is the key… I learnt the power of spiritual discipline. I have not met another man, apart probably from Dr Cho, that’s more disciplined than Dr Phil Pringle.” – Kong Hee, Kuala Lumpur Conference, Session 4, August 23-26/08/2011.

[Edit 07/06/2012] To get a good idea how influential Phil Pringle is, Kong Hee said the following:

“You know pastor Phil Pringle, Apostle, the Bishop ( J. John calls him the bishop)- to me he is the Apostle, he’s my friend, he’s the friend of God. I’ve known Pastor Phil and Pastor Chris for eighteen years. And yet we talk about City Harvest Church.

You can’t talk about City Harvest Church without talking about C3. Or Christian City Church. You know Pastor Phil has been there for me; praying with me; encouraging me; discipling me; telling me how to do the work of the ministry; taught me how to collect an offering; how to give an altar call; how to build a church; build a team. So Pastor Phil, from the depth of my heart, for Sun and myself, we wouldn’t be where we are today without you and Pastor Chris. Let’s give Pastor Phil and Pastor Chris a big clap.” – Kong Hee, Kong Hee, Session 8: (00:24), Presence Conference 2010. 00:24

(Quick reminder: Phil Pringle never was an Apostle.)

We would go so far to say that Sun Ho and Kong Hee see Phil Pringle as a sort of infallible prophet. We were notified a few months ago something Sun Ho said to Phil Pringle last year at the Presence Conference 2012. Looking straight at Phil Pringle, Sun Ho said:

“Umm Pastor and Pastor Christine, I just want to say thank you so much from the bottom of our hearts and I know that I represent City Harvest Church. We really- words alone can never express how much- you know we’re so grateful for all that you’ve done for us. Last night, when I was sitting here listening to you pastor preaching about ‘Connect- Connecting’. And it just dawned upon me. It’s like Psalms-8. You know, it just dawned upon me: “Who am I that you would consider me? ” You know and I thought about how when the case happened twenty three months ago, you so graciously accepted to be the Advisory Pastor to City Harvest Church.” – Sun Ho, Presence Conference 2012, Night Session, 11/04/2012. [Watch here]

Kong Hee allowed his wife to speak on behalf of himself and CHC. The choice of words was highly unfortunate, to say the least, even making allowances for cultural differences in standards of politeness. The first principle in the use of Bible quotations, especially in the context of Christian meetings, is to respect the context of the quotation. In the light of this, a very simple question should be asked to Sun Ho: Who was King David WORSHIPING when he wrote Psalm 8? King David wrote,

“O LORD, our Lord, how majestic is your name in all the earth!

You have set your glory above the heavens. Out of the mouth of babies and infants, you have established strength because of your foes, to still the enemy and the avenger. When I look at your heavens, the work of your fingers, the moon and the stars, which you have set in place, what is man that you are mindful of him, and the son of man that you care for him?” Psalm 8:1-4 (Emphasis in bold)

Even worse in terms of sycophantic remarks is this comment from Kong,

“C’mon! Let’s give it up for the Pope and the Bishop of Australasia: Phil and Chris Pringle!” – Presence Conference 2012, Night Session, 11/04/2012. [Watch here]

Surely such a comment is inappropriate for someone who is supposed to be a Protestant minister? Even if meant in jest, it is a highly unfortunate remark, all the more so as some of Kong’s actions suggest that he regards Pringle as a prophet and at least in practice infallible.

We must ask, in light of this, does his relationship with Pringle affect how Kong Hee sees God? Going by what Kong Hee has said, it would seem that the answer is very much so.

KONG HEE’S FRUSTRATING VIEW OF GOD

In Presence Conference 2012, Kong Hee shared a personal and very frustrating view he had of God.

“And for the first time in eight months, I heard the voice. It is not the voice of a strict angry judge that only want me to perform and build a big church and nothing I do is ever good enough for Him. No. It’s not a voice of angry judge. It’s not the voice of a slave driver. That just wants to take and take and wring me dry. But it was a voice of a tender, loving, broken-hearted Father.” – Kong Hee, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=FKVSXfjhB14#t=1071s, Presence Conference 2012, Night Service, 11/04/2012.

All in all, that is a very strange thing to say. How did Kong get the idea that God is a “strict angry judge” that wanted him “to perform and build a big church”? There is no Protestant theologian on earth who would ever say such a thing; in fact the language is disturbingly reminiscent of the folk-Catholicism Martin Luther struggled with in his early days.

Why would Kong Hee ever have believed that God thinks that whatever he does is not “ever good enough for Him”? Why would Kong Hee see God as “a slave driver”? How did he gain this false view of Jesus since it is Jesus that says, “I will build my church”?

We think his personal experiences with Phil Pringle can help answer this question.

THE PRINGLE CONNECTION

City News reported how Pringle with other pastors helped birth the CrossOver Project,

“When his respected mentors Ulk Ekman, AR Bernard and Phil Pringle gave the same verse from Mark 4:35, “Let us cross over to the other side,” Kong knew there was no more space for hesitation, and the Crossover Project was born.” – Yong Yung Shin, http://www.citynews.sg/2012/05/city-harvest-church-10-years-of-the-crossover-project/, City Harvest Church: 10 Years Of The Crossover Project, 09/05/2012. (Accessed 27/09/2012.)

To say nothing of the appalling abuse of Scripture there (the fact that Jesus told his disciples that they had to cross the Sea of Galilee is not a prophecy or a pattern for anything we must do today), we see at once how Pringle’s circle regard words from the supposedly prophetically-gifted pastor.

Years later, CityNews also reported that Kong Hee and Sun Ho were thinking of ending the CrossOver Project.

“Sun, along with her family and the church, had reached a crossroad—should they continue with the Crossover Project now that she is a mother? … For six months, the couple prayed and discussed with the pastors and senior staff and consulted with spiritual mentors from around the world.” – Yong Yung Shin, http://www.citynews.sg/2012/05/city-harvest-church-10-years-of-the-crossover-project/, City Harvest Church: 10 Years Of The Crossover Project, 09/05/2012. (Accessed 27/09/2012.)

Why did they continue? Phil Pringle privately prophesied over Sun Ho’s music career and apparently told them “God is going to open a big door for CHC in China to be a blessing to the people”.

“Finally, it was a word given by Phil Pringle to Sun privately in May 2005 that gave them clarity to their path. “He said, ‘Five more years, because God is going to open a big door for CHC in China to be a blessing to the people.’ That word gave us the courage, faith and confirmation to resume the Crossover Project,” said Kong.” – Yong Yung Shin, http://www.citynews.sg/2012/05/city-harvest-church-10-years-of-the-crossover-project/, City Harvest Church: 10 Years Of The Crossover Project, 09/05/2012. (Accessed 27/09/2012.)

Fortunately, we have audio of Kong Hee talking about this event. Listen at how resolved they were after hearing Pringle’s prophecy. Did they pray about it the next few days? Did they discuss it together as a couple? Did they test the spirit or go to God’s Word in prayer or fasting? Listen in…

“Pastor Phil and Pastor Chris, they carry a spirit of prophecy. And five years ago when my little baby was born, Dayan, and my wife and I were thinking about taking a six month break. Go to Europe. Just backpack. Take little Dayan. We’ve been planting. I mean we’ve been running the church for so long.

And then Pastor Phil came to Singapore. And four months after little Dayan was born, in one of those meetings, the Holy Spirit HIT. And how many of you know that- talking about being dangerous, when the Holy Spirit comes upon Pastor Phil, he gets dangerous. Right?

And he starts prophesying, “Sun! It’s not time for you to stop. You got to go to China.”

And at that word, you know we let go of our nets. And then- so Sun’s been on the road right now. She’s living in the LA. And true enough, China opened up. She became the music ambassador for the Olympic games. Sang at the special olympics. Sang the anthem at the 2008 Beijing Olympics. And just last week, I mean – she’s a few months away from launching her début album in America. Just let you know, her first single, last month was number one in the US, number one in the UK on the secular charts. Lets praise God for that! Hallelujah! So we got Pastor Phil to thank for that.” – Kong hee, C3 Presence Conference, Session 4, Sydney, 2010.

“Talking about being dangerous” indeed. This is the great danger of the claim to prophetic gifting; it gives a man, in practice, an infallibility far worse than that claimed by the Papacy, for the Pope has only used that supposed infallibility twice, if that, while the modern Charismatic ‘Prophets’ use theirs almost daily, laying their followers under heavy burdens to fulfil these “words from the Lord.”

Doesn’t it sound like that Pringle in the above prophecy is at least by implication presenting God as “a slave driver”, driving Kong to work until he drops? Such words of supposed prophecy might well give reason for Kong Hee to believe that God thinks that whatever he does is not “ever good enough for Him”.

THE SUNTEC SEER

Prior to this, Phil Pringle continually ‘prophesied’ as early as 1995 that over Kong Hee would own SunTec City. Kong Hee continues…

“The reason I shared that was because in 1995 when Pastor Phil Pringle came to Singapore and I was driving him around town- just bringing him back from the hotel and to the hotel. And we passed by this huge complex in the downtown area just in front of our parliament house. And it’s called SunTec City. Now it is the most iconic, monumental, convention center in the whole of South-East Asia. Pastor Phil turned to me and said, “Kong, someday you’re going to own that building”. At that time, my church was only in 1995 less than a thousand people. I said, “Pastor Phil!” I say, “God bless your heart. Thank you so much having faith in me”. I said- you know, I was thinking, “Yeah right! In my dreams!”

And every year. Every year he came back. He’d say, “Kong, you’re gonna get that building”. And he said that. And I think at one time he could see the unbelief in me. He start slapping me. You know how many of you know Pastor Phil likes to slap, right? He starts slapping me and pushing me, shoving me saying, “You gonna get that building. You gonna get…” And I just held that in my heart. I didn’t share that with anybody. My wife and I we prayed and we prayed. And then- I want you to know, two months ago, we signed- oh last month- we signed the lease. We are now co-owners of SunTec City Convention Center.

Hallelujah! Amen! We’re gonna move in. We’re gonna move in twelve months from now.

Ah- I thought I’m gonna show you a video. This is our ‘Rise and Build’ video and- Many people come to City Harvest Church and they look at our church. Look at our pulpit. Our Rise and Build. And they say, “Hey! Why is it that in Australia they kinda copy after you?”

Well actually we came here and copied everything from Christian City Church. So we have our own Rise and Build and I just thought I show you this latest installment where we anounced to our church, SunTec City Convention Center. It’s a twelve thousand seater hall. And ah- it’s amazing. And already, in one month after we signed the lease, we are already starting to earn dividends from all the profits, eh! So lets just watch the video right now.” – Kong hee, C3 Presence Conference, Session 4, Sydney, 2010.

The above audio reveals how much Kong Hee looks up to Pringle, and how this leads him to emulate Pringle; not only did Kong Hee copy Phil Pringle’s Vision Builders campaign, Kong copied his church from Pringle’s church at Oxford Falls, Sydney.

It becomes clear that Pringle seems to be a major factor in Kong Hee’s life and decision making. But was Pringle really hearing from God, or was he seeking to mould Kong Hee in his likeness? We find it hard to believe that the owning of a particular piece of real estate would be so high on God’s list of priorities, for Jesus Christ came into the world to save sinners, not to own expensive and prestigious convention centers Remember that Phil Pringle is huge on church growth and these prophecies seem to be leading Kong Hee to see God in a bitter light.

KONG HEE PUBLICLY BLAMES PRINGLE FOR HIS MESS?

We hear Kong Hee tell this story again, this time more daringly.

“Let me tell you a scary story. [Audience laughs] This is Scary Movie Part 4- Part 5. [Audience laughs] Nineteen-ninety-five, nineteen-ninety-five, our church was a thousand people. We just moved into a new facility, and I was driving the bishop- uh- Pastor Phil- back to the hotel. And we passed by a brand new convention center called SunTec City. And Phil Pringle turned to me (true story), and you know how he does it. He slapped me while I’m driving. Slapped me- “Hey Kong! [Audience laughs] You’re gonna take over this building! This building yours! Hallelujah!” Pat! Pat! Pat! Pat! Pat! [Audience laughs] Reeeeaaar! [Audience laughs]

And- And then fifteen years later, we got the building. And now we’re in all this mess [Pringle laughs with audience ]. So, I told Pastor Phil, “You created this mess! You’ve got to come and help us fix it”. And he’s done such a great job!” – Kong Hee, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eESwC7MEAc0, Presence Conference 2012, Night Session, 11/04/2012.

[Edit 07/06/2012] Kong Hee again blames Pringle for his mess at Presence Conference 2013.

So it’s all your fault, Pastor!” – Kong Hee, C3 Global Presence Conference, Day 1, Session 1, 2013.

Our question: why is Phil Pringle getting away with “influencing” people like this? Whether Kong Hee is right or wrong in his teachings, how can Phil Pringle get away with “influencing” Kong Hee by using God to make Kong Hee and Sun Ho risk their lives merely to do something impressive? We do not doubt their devotion, but devotion to a false prophecy is not admirable, but pitiful. If these ‘pastors’ have put everything on the line to submit to the ‘word of God’ through Pringle, how many people have done likewise in Pringle’s church? It is a truly worrying thought!

No matter how you look at it, Pringle is not merely dishonouring his own name or that of his C3 Movement, he brings absolute shame to the name of Christ. Pringle knows that his ‘prophecy’ has come at a “great cost to Kong, and even to [himself]“. In fact, Pringle has flaunted the ‘fulfillment’ of this ‘prophecy’ around his own movement to make wild claims that he is truly a prophet of God with truly prophetic messages to prophesy financial increase to those committed to his church movement.

To further understand how flippant Pringle is with the idea of the prophetic office, consider this piece of double-speak:

“I get the word of the Lord for different people around the world at different times, and I try not to deliver it in too much of a way that it’s perfect and infallible. I mean, I could get it wrong. But when I feel a word, I definitely say it to people. I don’t think it’s a credit to me—it’s simply a gift that God gives to people. If you can hear it, then it’ll definitely work for you.” – Phil Pringle, Faithful Friend, City News, http://www.citynews.sg/2011/04/faithful-friend/, 08/04/2011. (Accessed 06/01/2012.)

Now this is the great danger of this teaching on private revelations; it leads to people making claims that are treated in effect as infallible, while at the same time saying “I could get it wrong” and therefore having a get-out clause; all the authority of an Old Testament Prophet, but none of the responsibility.

Here is the problem, you see; if the word is really from God, then to disobey is sin. If it is simply some idle idea of Phil Pringle, then it is probably best ignored, but how are we to tell the difference?

The argument that those who teach that such revelations are given today is that they are to be tested by the Word of God. But here is the rub. How can one test the word, “Thus says the Lord, you shall buy the SunTec City convention centre” against the Bible?

Like that old standby, “Thus says the Lord, you shall marry Daisy”, it is so personal, so specific, that it really cannot be tested on the spot. And the very use of the ‘prophetic’ formula, as opposed to, “I think it would be a good idea if…” is manipulative in itself when used to someone who admires Pringle as highly as Kong Hee clearly does. Where a word is represented as coming from God, it comes with the implication of divine authority, whatever may be done in the way of hedging it around with ifs and buts.

Let us take heed what Kong Hee said: “”You created this mess! You’ve gotta come and help us fix it”. It is distressing to see Phil Pringle get away from ruining Kong Hee and Sun Ho. If Pringle says, “I get the word of the Lord for different people around the world at different times,” who will be his next victim?

Do C3, CHC & Hillsong Churches Know What The Role Of A Pastor Is? Do You?

03 Sunday Mar 2013

Posted by Nailed Truth in Uncategorized

≈ 4 Comments

Tags

biblical pastor, Brian Houston, c3, c3 church, c3 church global, c3 church international, c3 church of, c3 church oxford falls, c3 of, c3 oxford falls, c3 pastor, c3 pastors, ccc, cccglobal, ccci, CHC, Chris Rosebrough, Christian City Church, City Harvest Church, clowns, For Whom Do Pastors Exist, goats, hillsong, hillsong church, Houston, Kong Hee, pastor, pastors, Phil Pringle, Rosebrough

The famous preacher Charles Haddon Spurgeon once said,

“A time will come when instead of shepherds feeding the sheep, the church will have clowns entertaining the goats.”

Do you think that a C3, CHC or Hillsong Pastor comes across more like an entertaining clown rather than a faithful shepherd? Chris Rosebrough from Fighting For the Faith wrote an exceptional article what the role of the pastor should be. Sadly, we do not know any C3 pastors or Hillsong Pastors who reflect the role of a proper biblical Christian pastor.

For Whom Do Pastors Exist?

If I had ten dollars for every time I’ve heard a seeker-driven pastor justify the crazy antics that happen in their churches by claiming that “the church doesn’t exist for believers”, I’d be able to purchase James MacDonald’s home with cash. These seeker-driven antics include such things as playing AC/DC’s Highway to Hell to open their Easter service, refusing to preach the Bible with any depth or accuracy, performing Michael Jackson’s Thriller, recreating the famous kiss scene from the Spiderman movie and a whole host of other crazy worldly stunts.

When you call these pastors out on their antics their responses are predictable and consistent and usually go something like this:

Example 1

Church Attender: Hey pastor, why don’t you ever preach exegetical sermons? I feel like I’m not being fed here because your sermons usually only contain 3 or 4 verses taken out of context in order to teach some relevant life principle.

Pastor: Why are you so selfish? The church doesn’t exist for you. It’s not about you.

Example 2

Church Attender: Hey pastor, why did you have the worship team begin our Easter service with AC/DC’s Highway to Hell rather than a song proclaiming Jesus’ victorious resurrection from the grave? AC/DC is worldly at best and satanic at worst and that blasphemous song should not be brought into God’s house.

Pastor: Why are you so selfish? The church doesn’t exist for you. It’s not about you. Church isn’t for the already convinced its for the not yet convinced.

Example 3

Church Attender: Hey pastor, why are you preaching about movies rather than preaching God’s Word like 2 Tim 4:1-3 commands?

Pastor: Why are you so selfish? The church doesn’t exist for you. It’s not about you. Our church exists for people who are not yet believers.

Notice that each time the pastor answers using the standard seeker-driven talking point and doesn’t answer the question but makes a blanket claim that the church doesn’t exist for believers and therefore the person asking the question is guilty of selfishly believing that the church exists for them.

Anyone who’s been railroaded by these tactics knows that something is way off about these claims being made by seeker-driven pastors but don’t exactly know how to put their finger on the problem or know how to put it into words. This post will help you do that.

Notice that every time the word pastor has appeared, thus far, in this post that I’ve bolded it and underlined it. That is to help you spot the irony of the statements being made by seeker-driven pastorsand that irony will help you identify the underlying error in their tactics and methodologies.

Here’s the irony…No where in scripture does it say that the church exists for unbelievers. BUT, there are clear passages that state that pastors and elders are to serve the church. Therefore, it is ironic and foolish for a pastor, whose job is to serve the church to justify methods that don’t serve Christians by claiming that the church doesn’t exist for believers.

Here are the key passages that address this topic. We’ll begin by first looking at the passages that discuss spiritual gifts. The reason for this is that the ability to teach God’s word is a gift given by the Holy Spirit to certain people within the body of Christ.

The Purpose of Spiritual Gifts is to Build Up the Church Not The World

The Bible teaches that God, The Holy Spirit gives different gifts to different believers for the building up of the body of Christ (1 Corinthians 12:4–7). Teaching is one of the gifts that the Holy Spirit gives to pastors and this gift is to be used specifically for believers.

Ephesians 4:8–13 states this very clearly:

“(In saying, “He ascended,” what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower regions, the earth? He who descended is the one who also ascended far above all the heavens, that he might fill all things.) And he gave the apostles, the prophets, the evangelists, the shepherds and teachers, to equip the saints for the work of ministry, for building up the body of Christ, until we all attain to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to mature manhood, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,”

In clear and unambiguous language God states that shepherds (pastors) and teachers in the church exist to equip the saints (not unbelievers) and to build up the body of Christ (not the world). This is clear and irrefutable.

Those Who Have the Gift To Teach Are Commanded to Feed Christ’s Sheep by Teaching the Word of God

The duties of shepherds and teachers within the church are governed by the instructions given by Jesus Christ.

“When they had finished breakfast, Jesus said to Simon Peter, “Simon, son of John, do you love me more than these?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him, “Feed my lambs.” He said to him a second time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” He said to him, “Yes, Lord; you know that I love you.” He said to him,“Tend my sheep.” He said to him the third time, “Simon, son of John, do you love me?” Peter was grieved because he said to him the third time, “Do you love me?” and he said to him, “Lord, you know everything; you know that I love you.” Jesus said to him, “Feed my sheep.” (John 21:15–17)

Notice that in this passage Jesus doesn’t tell Peter to entertain goats or dazzle the world. Instead, Christ soberly and firmly reinstates Peter after he’d denied Jesus three times. And Peter was reinstated into ministry and that ministry was to shepherd and feed Christ’s sheep. These commands by Jesus to Peter stuck with him his entire life. Peter himself would later exhort elders (pastors) with these words:

“So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight,not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you;not for shameful gain, but eagerly; not domineering over those in your charge, but being examples to the flock. And when the chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the unfading crown of glory.” (1 Peter 5:1–4)

This shepherding language is also use by the Apostle Paul when he addresses the elders of the Church of Ephesus. Here are Paul’s words of exhortation:

“Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to shepherd the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them.” (Acts 20:28–31)

It’s clear from these passages that pastors are not literal shepherds and that Christians are not literal sheep. All of these images are metaphors that help create a mental picture of the difficult and sacrificial work of pastors. So, when Jesus told Peter to “feed my sheep” what was Jesus referring to? What does a Pastor/Shepherd feed Christ’s sheep with?

The answer is simple, the Word of God, and two passages will suffice in demonstrating this fact:

“[Jesus] answered, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that comes from the mouth of God.” (Matthew 4:4)

“But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have firmly believed, knowing from whom you learned it and how from childhood you have been acquainted with the sacred writings, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus. All Scripture is breathed out by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, and for training in righteousness, that the man of God may be complete, equipped for every good work.

I charge you in the presence of God and of Christ Jesus, who is to judge the living and the dead, and by his appearing and his kingdom: preach the word; be ready in season and out of season; reprove, rebuke, and exhort, with complete patience and teaching. For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions, and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.” (2 Timothy 3:14–4:4)

No commentary is needed for these verses because they clearly teach that God’s Word is ‘sheep food’ and that pastors are to be feeding the scriptures to Christ’s sheep.

The Bottom Line

The next time you hear a seeker-driven pastor attempt justify his shallow sermons and entertainment driven stunts by claiming that “the church doesn’t exist for believers”, kindly inform him that regardless of who the church exists for, his job exists to serve believers and Christ’s sheep and that if he won’t do his job that he’s rebelling against Jesus Christ Himself.

Source: Chris Rosebrough, For Whom Do Pastors Exist?, http://www.letterofmarque.us/2012/10/who-do-pastors-exist-for.html?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=for-whom-do-pastors-exist, 19/10/2012. (Accessed 23/02/2013.)

PP’s Potty-Mouth Preaching On Monism?

08 Friday Feb 2013

Posted by Nailed Truth in C3 Spirituallity, C3 Teaching

≈ 1 Comment

Tags

c3, c3 church, c3 church global, c3 church of, c3 church oxford falls, c3 global, c3church, c3churchglobal, C3i, c3i global, c3iglobal, C3OF, ccc, ccc church, ccci, Christian City Church, christian city church global, christian city church international, Christian City Church Oxford Falls, christian witness ministries, christiancitychurch, false prophet, monism, monistic, myc3church, Oxford Falls, Phil Pringle, potty, potty-mouth, Pringle, stuff, wolf

Christian Witness Ministries reports Phil Pringle teaching the following.

The Question being: “What do you think is under this sheep clothing-?

Is it — a real shepherd, a wolf or a false prophet?” (Matthew 7:15)

Phil Pringle ( PP ) was recorded at Wellington on the 19th March 2002

PP ” The atmosphere you create will attract spiritual power. Spirits live in spiritual atmospheres. You can create an atmosphere that attracts God or repels God.”

PP then describes how Jesus wants to clean up certain areas, and focuses on the toilet.

PP “Jesus came to ‘clean us up’ “.

PP further describes how Jesus wants to clean certain areas of our lives that are ‘messed up’.

PP “He wants to clean up the brown smears on the bowl”.

Then in reference to the atmosphere (in the toilet) PP continues on.

PP “The power of God is a tangible force.”

PP goes on to describe the power of God as ‘stuff’.

PP “The stuff of God can actually live in your clothes. It can get in the carpet, it can get in your hair. The stuff of God, the anointing. This stuff can get into your body and heal it. This stuff can get into your bank account. Praise God, now we’re talking amen. I need some of that in my bank account. It’s imparted through the laying on of hands. It’s inside your body, when you lay hands on people it travels.”

LC – The whole idea that God is stuff is in essence Monistic. I.e. The concept that creation and God are essentially one and the same. It is a materialistic worldview and not supported by the Bible…

Source: A real shepherd, a wolf or a false prophet, Christian Witness Ministries, http://www.christian-witness.org/not_in_pubs/pringle_alves.html, Last revised-Friday, November 10, 2006. Accessed 07/02/2013.

What is monism?

“Monism is the view that reality consists of one fundamental, ultimate essence. It comes from the Greek mono, which means one. All is one. Therefore, in monism God and the universe are the same thing. This would mean that energy, motion, matter, thought, consciousness, etc., are all of one substance but are perceived differently.

Monism stands in opposition to the dualism and pluralism but is often defined the same as pantheism, the teaching that God and the universe are the same thing.

Monism is unbiblical because it denies the distinction between God and creation.”

Source: What is monism?, Christian Apologetics & Research Ministry, http://carm.org/questions/about-philosophy/what-monism,. Accessed 07/02/2013.

NOTE: SCREEN GRAB TAKEN ON 08/02/2013.

And This Is How Pringle Restores Fallen ‘Pastor’ (And Prophet) Pat Mesiti?

08 Tuesday Jan 2013

Posted by jakeelliot in C3 & Pringles Associations, C3 Culture

≈ Leave a comment

Tags

c3, c3 church, c3 church oxford falls, c3 global, c3 international, c3 oxford falls, c3global, C3i, c3iglobal, ccc, ccc church, ccc international, ccc oxford falls, ccci, ccci global, cccof, con, con artist, con artistry, con job, cult, cult-like, dangerous, false, false prophet, false teaching, hillsong, hillsong church, lie, mesiti, pat mesiti, Phil Pringle, prophet, scam, scandal, scheme

pringle mesiti and money

In a previous article, we posted a transcript that revealed Phil Pringle allowing Pat Mesiti to financially con people to give money to Phil Pringle’s ministry. In this con, we pointed out that Pat Mesiti misleads and manipulates people to part with their finances.

Phil Pringle & Pat Mesiti Conning C3 Church To Give Cash

Here is another transcript that further reveals Phil Pringle endorsing Money-Magnet Mesiti to preach on money again at C3 Church in 2006. This critique should highlight how dangerously cult-like the C3 Church movement really is. In this sermon, Mesiti mangles or misses the point of every scripture. He even claims to speak on behalf of God, (thus elevating himself to the status of infallibility). At the very bottom is transcript. Below is the critique.

IT’S ABOUT MESITI GETTING YOUR MONEY

Below, Pat Mesiti was invited to do an offering talk. That means, Mesiti was invited up by Phil Pringle to financially manipulate people into giving. Mesiti does a brilliant job in selectively replacing the words of God to get people to give money.

Here are some examples.

SAMPLE 1: JESUS WANTS YOU TO DO WHAT HE SAYS: TITHE

Mesiti says, “Jesus said this, that if you love me, do what I say… In Malachi Chapter 3…”

Jesus in a number ways says in John 14, “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments”.

The difference is significant. By changing that one word, Mesiti has essentially:

1. taken Jesus’ statement out of context

2. turned Jesus’ statement around to apply something un-Christian so Mesiti can get Christians to do what he wants them to do.

Jesus says the above command FOUR times in this discourse, (John 14:15, 21, 23, 24). It becomes evident, that the disciples at that time had to hear Jesus’ instructions and teachings. Why? They were entrusted with his teachings and commands while he was on earth with them. The word for ‘keep’ in the original Greek in these four passages are tērēsete (14:15), tērōn (14:21), tērēsei (14:23) and tērei (14:24). Each essentially meanin the same thing: ‘to watch over, to guard’. Jesus was telling HIS disciples, “If you love me, you will WATCH OVER AND GUARD my commandments/teachings.”

In context, Jesus later explains (emphasis ours),

“Whoever does not love me does not keep my words (logous). And the word (logos) that you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me.

“These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.” John 14:24-26

This instruction was given to the Apostles not us. This is why the Apostles wrote the gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and their epistles. Pat Mesiti has twisted the words of Jesus for his own un-Christian agenda. Jesus did not say, “if you love me, do what I say” so Mesiti can preach that we are to tithe.

SAMPLE 2: MESITI CURSES CHRISTIANS AT C3

In Malachi 3:8, Mesiti chooses to say, “will a man restrict, will a man block God”. In his attempt to convince people that the tithe is grace orientated, Mesiti tries to convince people that to tithe is to unblock God’s grace. This is backwards Christianity. If a Christian is to work at unblocking God’s grace, then how can one receive grace in the first place?

If Mesiti is elevating the giving of the tithe to unblock God’s blessing/power over his people, than Mesiti’s god is an incompetent god. A powerless god that is dependent on our works. So how can Pat Mesiti say this?

“the tithe, literally is a sign that God is really Lord and master over all. That is the symbol of the tithe.”

To teach that we can UNBLOCK God in our lives through tithing and then teach that the “tithe, literally is a sign that God is really Lord and master over all,” is double speak or double mindedness. The tithe is NOT a Christian teaching. This is heresy. This is legalism.

Furthermore, Pat Mesiti reveals how conniving he actually is to get people to give money. He lets his listeners know that Christians have issues with the teaching of Malachi 3:8-10.

“Now some people might say, ‘yeah, that’s Old Testament that’s under law.'”

Rightly so. Mesiti later refers to Abraham’s tithe to Melchizedek prior to the Law, saying this proves that the tithe… is not of the Law? But Mesiti cannot have it both ways. You can’t convince an audience that people ate fish ten years ago by eating bananas. Similarly, Mesiti can’t preach the tithe under the Mosaic Law and then say it never was.

In regards to Abraham’s tithe, God blessed Abraham FIRST and Abraham tithed ONCE. Yet Mesiti is trying to con people to tithe FIRST and CONSTANTLY so they can UNBLOCK God to receive blessings from His hands. According to Mesiti it is the tithe, not God, that “brings you protection” and “opens up the windows of Heaven”.

Has Mesiti not read Malachi 3:8-11? Last time we checked it was GOD who opens the ‘windows of heaven’ and protects us by ‘rebuking the devourer’ not the tithe. (Emphasis ours.)

“Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the LORD of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need. I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it will not destroy the fruits of your soil, and your vine in the field shall not fail to bear, says the LORD of hosts.” Malachi 3:10-11

It should be clear that Mesiti can’t even read the bible let alone notice his eyes are not on God but on money. He seems convinced that tithing money into a poker-machine-god will result in unblocking the chambers and receiving it’s abundant cash flow and supernatural protection. In this instance, this scriptural rebuke from the Apostle Paul applies to ‘restored pastor’ Pat Mesiti AND Phil Pringle for peddling this shameful message. (Emphasis added.)

“You foolish [pastors]! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you [Pringle and Mesiti]: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing?” Galatians 3:1-4

This then makes us question what Pat Mesiti means when he says, “I want to see people saved.” As a ‘restored pastor’, how can he wish to see people saved if he has no idea what the foundation of Christianity is? He has done a better job cursing and condemning Christians using God’s Law than pointing believers to the saving work of Christ. Mesiti is either lying on stage or he has no idea what he is doing as a ‘restored pastor’ (thanks to Phil Pringle’s mentor-ship).

MESITI MISSING THE POINT

Even every single scripture Mesiti even refers to in this sermon, he misses the point completely. Mesiti says,

“God doesn’t get that concept [of ‘just enough’] …because wherever God does a miracle…listen to me church, the loaves and the fishes, there’ll be 12 baskets left over…for everybody.”

Unfortunately, that miracle wan’t their to demonstrate that “God doesn’t get that concept” of ‘just enough’. The Apostle John explains why he recorded the loaves and the fishes miracle.

“Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.” John 20:30-31

Mesiti also missed the point when he referred to the widow of Zarephath. She did not receive the blessing because she tithed or had a ‘God-is-more-then-‘just-enough’ mindset. In Hebrews 11 (the faith chapter), she is obscurely mentioned in verse 35. Hebrews teaches us that “By faith” “Women received back their dead, raised to life again.” This was a woman that put her faith in God through God’s famous prophet Elijah in ancient Israel. Her household was spared from death that fateful day. Later when her son did die, it was by faith that her son was raised from the dead. It wasn’t by works but by faith God favoured her. It was by God’s grace that Elijah was sent by God to her house. It wasn’t by works but by grace and faith she was saved. Mesiti teaches likewise.

From the bible’s perspective, Pat Mesiti is not at all qualified to be restored to be a pastor.

MESITI LIES ABOUT GOD AGAIN

Mesiti twisted the words of Jesus to guilt people into giving money to Phil Pringle and his C3 Organisation.

His constant misuse of scripture leads to this lie of a conclusion:

“We are bringing out tithes, the bible says, unto Jesus.”

This is a lie. The bible does NOT tell Christians to tithe to Jesus. Jesus never tithed. So Jesus could never have taught Christians to tithe. His Apostles never tithed. So His Apostles could never have taught Christians to tithe. How can the scriptures call us to imitate Paul, the way he imitated Christ, if neither of them tithed?

MESITI BLASPHEMING GOD

Pat Mesiti also revealed that the ‘Holy Spirit’ he heard was not of God:

“here’s what I believe the Holy Spirit spoke to my spirit about.

“Tell my people, I don’t understand the concept of ‘just enough’.””

Really? God spoke to Prophet Pat? Yet the Apostle Paul, who wrote much of the New Testament, taught this amazing truth from God to believers:

“For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened, but that as a matter of fairness your abundance at the present time should supply their need, so that their abundance may supply your need, that there may be fairness. As it is written, “Whoever gathered much had nothing left over, and whoever gathered little had no lack.”” 2 Corinthians 8:13-15

Isn’t it odd that Paul was thinking in advance AFTER the Corinths were to give money to the poor church in Jerusalem? Paul says that in the future, the Jerusalem church in their “their abundance may supply your [the Godly givers] need, that there may be fairness.” Fairness? According to Mesiti, they should have more than enough not “just enough”.

The above scripture portrays that Christians are to give freely to brothers so that all may have enough and vice versa. This then fulfills Paul’s use of the old testament scripture above. You will not find Paul teaching the church to tithe or to seek abundant material blessing. Nor will you see Paul teach that what you give, God will be unblocked to bless you back.

Furthermore, Paul says,

“I rejoiced in the Lord greatly that now at length you have revived your concern for me. You were indeed concerned for me, but you had no opportunity. Not that I am speaking of being in need, for I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. I can do all things through him who strengthens me.” Philippians 4:10-13

How could Mesiti pit the Holy Spirit against the Holy Spirit who wrote the scriptures? It is of our opinion that Pat Mesiti is blatantly lying to the C3 Church members. How else could he say the following, speaking on God’s behalf?

“and God says ‘I’ll pour open Heaven’ ‘I don’t understand the concept of just…..I wanna pour out abundance.’ But don’t restrict Him.””

Either way, this is serious slander against the character and teaching of God and His Holy Spirit. Mesiti is restricting God by telling people they can restrict God if they don’t give C3 their money. Furthermore, by claiming that God spoke to him or that he was speaking on behalf of God is incredibly dangerous. The fact that he spoke lies against God while claiming he was hearing from God should have made Pringle stand up and tell Mesiti to sit down.

The scriptures say that people like Mesiti and Pringle “in their greed … will exploit you with false words.” The ASV says false teachers in their greed “with feigned words make merchandise of you.” Is this not an accurate desciption of what Mesiti and Pringle are doing?

Don’t you think it is evil that Phil Pringle has ‘restored’ Pat Mesiti back into ministry, yet allowed him to lie about God’s word and slander God’s character? All for the sake so people can give money to Pringle’s church? Why didn’t Phil Pringle stop Mesiti from preaching? Why did he put up with this and endorse this message?

There is much more we could have focused on in this transcript. After reading the transcript below, feel free to comment on other points we missed.

====================================================

Everybody say “10%”

Monday 02 October, 2006 – 15:10 by Hill$ong Squad in Default

views (607) | rating ooooo (0 votes)

Christian City Church

Oxford Falls

Sunday 1 October 2006

10am service

Pastors Phil Pringle and Pat Mesiti

http://202.125.166.74/ramgen/ccc/01100610am.rm

(Phil Pringle) ….So now we’re going to receive our tithes and offerings ….so I want you to get ready to give.. this morning…and if you need an envelope because you use a credit card for giving.. just raise your hand ..otherwise on a newsletter, there’s a tear off strip…you can fill out your details on that. We have an EFTPOS machine up the back…of if you’re on the internet you can give through the web page there.. up on the right hand side..you’ll find an area there for giving.

I’m going to ask Pat Mesiti just to come and share around the offering this morning. Amen. Give Pat a big hand would ya? (applause) In fact next Sunday morning, I’ve asked Pat to preach here, he’s going to preach about reaching the world. Amen. God bless ya.

(Pat Mesiti) Amen church. You love the Lord? Oh good …(inaudible) You love the Lord? (‘Yeah’)

Jesus said an interesting thing in the bible. I’ll have to give you a little bit…what prompted that thought.

Little while ago I was talking to someone ..and they said…they said, ‘Pat, I’m a Christian.’

‘And so, well, how do you define if you are a Christian?’

And they said ‘well, you know, I kinda go to church.’

And I said, ‘well that’s really cool.’ But, people ..don’t read the bible say really dumb things. And you would agree with that.

Jesus said this, that if you love me, do what I say.

Obedience is really the sign that we are lovers of Jesus. Can I get an ‘Amen’? How many of you are married? Raise your hands.

How many of you husbands have learned to obey your wife? (laughter) We Italians have got it figured out. we say ‘the man is the head, but the woman is the neck that turns him around’. (laughter)

In Malachi Chapter 3, come with me to this awesome passage of scripture. Pastor Phil is a modern day revivalist, would you agree with that?

I really believe that….can we give our pastor a hand, he’s a modern day revivalist. (applause)

And one of the keys to the outpouring of heaven ….we’ve had a lot about prayer ..and today we’re gonna hear about something else and next Sunday I want to really share about getting the salt out of a shaker and making a difference in our world..and can you please bring friends.

I want to see people saved.

But here in Malachi Chapter 3…it shows us this incredible insight into opening up the windows of Heaven.

Not just prayer and telling people and acts of mercy, but God right here says this…he says ‘will a man rob God?’

Now the first thing is ..how do you take away from God?

It isn’t that we go to God ..and take that…because in actual fact, God really enjoys it when you take something of Him into your world.

When you take grace from His throne ..into your world…God enjoys it… can I get an Amen? (‘Amen’)

But here’s the concept…if you look at the Hebrew scripture …it is a picture of a goblet with a lid on it. And the way we rob God is we put a restriction on what God loves to do. Which is what? Blessing.

And it says, ‘will a man restrict, will a man block God.’

Here you say, how have you robbed me? And God says ‘in tithes and offerings’.

And then He says this, ‘Bring all the tithes into the storehouse.’ Everybody say ‘all the tithes’ (‘all the tithes’)

Everybody say ‘all the tithes’ (‘all the tithes’)

What is a tithe? Let me explain. The tithe…is 10 per cent. Everybody say ’10 per cent’ (’10 per cent’).

10 per cent.

God says, ‘Bring me what’s mine …bring me that 10 per cent.’ If you’re in a business deal…and someone said to you, ‘you know what….I’m going to let you keep 90 per cent, just give me 10, how many of you think that would be a great business deal?

And God says ’10 per cent’.

Now some people might say, ‘yeah, that’s Old Testament that’s under law.’ Oh, no, no, no, no.

This is pre-law, this is under the Malchizadek priesthood, who is a type of Jesus.

We are bringing out tithes, the bible says, unto Jesus.

10 per cent. Now why 10 per cent?

You see, if God set an amount, it would not be fair, correct? It wouldn’t be fair if God said ‘bring a thousand dollars to the storehouse every week.’ It wouldn’t be fair.

But God is a God who is a just and righteous God.

He said, ‘bring a percentage’, so that the person who’s earning a thousand dollars a week or a hundred thousand dollars a week …I had a gentleman in Malaysia one day say to me this…he said ‘if I bring my tithe to the church every week’ …he said (inaudible) …he said ‘I’d have to be bringing ten thousand dollars a week into the tithe’.

And I said ‘would you like me to pray that you only have to give a hundred dollars a week’? (laughter)

It’s all relevant. Say ‘Amen or ouch’.

See, and here it is, it’s not my tithe, language is so important, it’s His tithe, and the tithe, literally is a sign that God is really Lord and master over all. That is the symbol of the tithe.

Three things it does to you, it brings you protection.

Second thing it does, it opens up the windows of Heaven.

Listen to what it says here. Look at this church.

‘If I will not open up for you the windows of Heaven and pour out for you such a blessing, there will not be room enough to receive it.’

You know as I was driving to church this morning, I always try and prepare my spirit for the offering message, just in case.

I always say honestly every Sunday when I’m in church …I always do ..because…I know Pastor Phil.

But you know I was just preparing my heart, and I said, ‘Lord, if I were to do the offering this morning, what could I say that would encourage people?

And here’s what I believe the Holy Spirit spoke to my spirit about.

“Tell my people, I don’t understand the concept of ‘just enough’.”

God doesn’t get that concept …because wherever God does a miracle…listen to me church, the loaves and the fishes, there’ll be 12 baskets left over…for everybody.

When he taught out from the widow’s miracle ..of the widow’s oil …there..they filled the jars ..and there was so much there…she could have kept pouring today if she was alive. What an amazing thing.

When God does it, He’s a God of more than enough, his name is El Shaddai, the God of plenty, not El Cheapo, the Lord, the Tightwad. (laughter)

How many of you thank God for that?

And I want us to understand that this morning.

Let’s bring all the tithes, not half of it, a quarter of it, all the tithes ..and God says ‘I’ll pour open Heaven’

‘I don’t understand the concept of just…..I wanna pour out abundance.’ But don’t restrict Him.

Father, we thank you for our ability to be able to give to you. I thank you for this House, I thank you for what you’re doing. I thank this House, your building, we’re working with you.

Lord I ask you to bless every tither, every obedient tither …as they bring your store out of every offering, in Jesus’ name.

If you need an envelope this morning, please raise your hand.

If you want to give by credit card, at the back of the room there is an EFTPOS machine there, if you’d like to give through EFTPOS machine.

If you’re writing out a cheque, please make it payable to Christian City Church.

God bless you church as you give.”

Length of offering sermon..7:05min

Source: Hill$ong Squad, Everybody say “10%”, http://hillsong.bigblog.com.au/post.do?id=75194, 02/10/2006. (Accessed 14/11/2011.) *Cached link: http://web.archive.org/web/20070430064824/http://hillsong.bigblog.com.au/post.do?id=75194.

Phil Pringle ‘Restoring’ Pat Mesiti As A Church Pastor

22 Saturday Dec 2012

Posted by Nailed Truth in C3 & Pringles Associations

≈ 29 Comments

Tags

amway, Brian Houston, c3, c3 church, c3 church oxford falls, c3 global, c3 oxford falls, C3i, C3OF, ccc, ccc church, ccc global, ccc oxford falls, ccci, cccof, hillsong, hillsong church, Houston, mesiti, pat mesiti, Phil Pringle, Pringle, restoration

We have been covering the history of Pat Mesiti’s rise and fall at http://www.hillsongchurchwatch.wordpress.com. To understand what is happening in the below transcript, it is important to read our articles on him here:

A Hillsong History

What Happened To Pat Mesiti of Hillsong?

Amway, Hillsong & C3 – The Mesiti Connection & Restoration

As you see, it is has been documented that Amway-speaking Pat Mesiti “was re-instated as a preacher on Sunday 19 February 2006 and serves God with a new awareness and humility”. In the below transcript, it is revealed that Brian Houston and Phil Pringle “are good friends” and that Phil Pringle has known Mesiti “forever”.

Was Mesiti’s Christian character restored? Hillsong and C3 seem to think so. Mesiti said that when he came out of this restoration process he believed, “in the message of prosperity more now than I ever did”. We shall look more into this “message of prosperity” that Mesiti got from this process from both Hillsong and C3.

Below is a transcript of Pat Mesiti’s restoration.

Pat Mesiti’s restoration

Monday 04 September, 2006 – 16:55 by Hill$ong Squad in Default

views (1,708) | rating ooooo (0 votes)

Christian City Church, Oxford Falls
6pm service, Sunday February 19, 2006

(Phil Pringle) “I know a lot of you were not in this morning’s service…and I need your attention ….I need your full attention people…I need you to be looking this way ..and listening….thank you very much.

Because this morning I made an announcement …and in last night’s service..that I need to make again and .. it’s a great announcement …a very joyful announcement.

About four-and-a-half years ago …there was an evangelist in this country by the name of Pat Mesiti.

Most of you I think will know of him.. some of you may not.

He had a television program and was regularly conducting crusades … where through..500/1500 people would come to Christ.

He was an initiator of many great youth programs, including Youth Alive here in New South Wales… and accomplished a huge number of things for the nation ..in the realm of evangelism and.. touching people’s lives with the gospel.

However, four-and-a-half years ago, Pat had a terrible, terrible tumble….a moral collapse which resulted in his marriage breaking ..and ..was a sad moment.

He was taken out of ministry…and ..stepped down.

He was an ordained minister in the Assemblies of God ..and after attempting to retrace..recover ..and after a year…it seemed it wasn’t going quite how it was anticipated.

So Brian Houston and myself..who are good friends ….I said….look…I’ll put my hand up…I’d like to ..help…and I’ve known Pat ..forever and he’s good friends with a lot of the people on this staff …and has been…..and I thought this’d be great if he came..and was in our church…and we would seek to see him standing on his feet again.

A number of years ago…I said to the Lord….’I’m so busy being a pastor….I don’t feel like I’m being a Christian.’

And…that just meant I was so busy leading and preaching ..doing all the stuff I wanted… I felt like…going and handing out pizzas to the homeless in Hyde Park ..or visiting people in old folks’ homes or reading books…or people in prison.

I’ve done all that..and used to teach in a school for handicapped children ….and …I go and visit prisons …just tell them to send up a prisoner if they didn’t have a visitor ..and I’d be there….and they didn’t know me…so.. when you get to be a pastor…you get a lot of other things going on ..

But He said to me …’no you’ve got a church full of people who can do that’……so I pray you do it man…

And He said….’no..no..no..what I want you to do is reach out to people that other people can’t reach out to..and that’s pastors …who are having troubled times…

And so…I try to do that…and there’s a few …who…I have no judgements on men and women who’ve found their life in trouble ….

Who knows what pressures they’re facing and what things they’ve gone through …but I do know they need to be recovered and restored.

And there is a pathway for that…repentence …restoration…restitution ..and making things right.

So Pat came….and I said to him…’Pat ..I want you to do several things…..one….turn up to church..’

And even with the shame and the awkwardness and the emotional difficulty of all that …I said ..’that’s what you’ve gotta do’.

Because the church is the best place you can be…rather than a counselling room ….just being in the worship…being in the local church …being involved in some ministry …of serving in the House.. all of those things are the best healing processes you will ever find yourself engaged in….because you’re forced to modify your behaviour and get things right and overcome …and all kinds of things….and relate to people…

And then just the Spirit of God working amongst us..

I believe in the power of the local church …it is the most powerful thing on Earth …to actually affect all sorts of things in people’s lives.

So Pat did that..and one year after his marriage had broke…he met a lady called Andrea ..and I was happy to participate in their marriage …three….two-and-a-half years ago …two years ago? Two years ago ….and that was a really joyful occasion.

And Pat and Andrea served in the visitors’ lounge …helping us there …and have continued to be involved… in our church over that time.

And he’s been relating to Greg French….Simon McIntyre ..Mark Kelsey and myself …over that period of time.

We’ve had times where we’ve needed to say things…or help him understand things..or whatever ..and Pat has been exemplary in all his ways of handling it.

I have tried this with a number of ministers and leaders over the years ..and I’ve got to say not without a lot of success.

It’s been unfortunate..because people find it difficult ..find it tough to recover…old steps.

But Pat has really displayed a repentent attitude ..and a commitment to a pathway ..that will bring him fully back into that way…

And the ministry team…we’ve all talked to each other…..and quite satisfied that he has fulfilled all those obligations.

The Assemblies of God asked him to do three years of restoration……it’s actually been four-and-a-half years now…that he has been out of ministry…and …as I said…we are happy that…

….So in the 10 o’clock service this morning… we laid hands on Pat and Andrea…and restored them to the ministry that God has called them to…(applause)..

In those services……well..actually…only in the 10 o’clock service….I asked Pat just to share something briefly..and he did… and so…I said…I want you to share in that service just briefly…..but what I really want you to do is preach in our church on Sunday night….

So…I want you to welcome Pat Mesiti as he comes…” (applause/cheering/Mesiti hugs Pringle)

From: http://hillsong.bigblog.com.au/post.do?id=66926http://202.125.166.74/ramgen/ccc/1902066pm.rm. (Accessed 14/11/2011.)
NOTE: SCREEN GRAB WAS TAKEN ON THE 14/11/2011.

	Nailed Truth on Noble Preaches Furtick Is Mess…
	k on Noble Preaches Furtick Is Mess…
	ashevillesveryown on C3 Asheville Scandal – M…
	churchwatcher on Phil Pringle Influenced By Occ…
	Clinton on Phil Pringle Influenced By Occ…
	2expose1 on Phil Pringle Influenced By Occ…
	Tracker on My! What Big Faith You Ha…
	Timothy Boisvert on C3 Asheville Scandal – M…
	Bryce on Phil Pringle the “scam…
	Tracker on Phil Pringle Influenced By Occ…

C3 Church Watch

Tag Archives: ccci

What Did Kong Hope To Achieve By Misleading CHC To Think They Would Own A Stadium?

A Good Example Of Pringle Teaching Dishonestly

Kong Hee Casting A “Power of Confession” Over Steven Furtick At Presence Conference 2013

An Analysis Of Kong Hee’s Money-Scheming ‘Church’

Pringle Should Be Worried About His Associations More Than His Critics (Who is ‘Pastor’ Alex Abraham?)

Church Pastor Embezzles 4.7 Trillion from Church Offerings

Pastor Abraham Alex Reported for Embezzling Rp 4.7 Trillion [~US$ 500 million]

Prophet Pringle Plundering People’s Pockets For Kong Hee’s Cause

Kong Hee To Phil Pringle: “You created this mess! You’ve Got To Come And Help Us Fix It”

Do C3, CHC & Hillsong Churches Know What The Role Of A Pastor Is? Do You?

For Whom Do Pastors Exist?

PP’s Potty-Mouth Preaching On Monism?

The Question being: “What do you think is under this sheep clothing-?

Is it — a real shepherd, a wolf or a false prophet?” (Matthew 7:15)

And This Is How Pringle Restores Fallen ‘Pastor’ (And Prophet) Pat Mesiti?

Phil Pringle ‘Restoring’ Pat Mesiti As A Church Pastor

Share this:

Like this:

Share this:

Like this:

Share this:

Like this:

Share this:

Like this:

Church Pastor Embezzles 4.7 Trillion from Church Offerings

Pastor Abraham Alex Reported for Embezzling Rp 4.7 Trillion [~US$ 500 million]

Share this:

Like this:

Share this:

Like this:

For Whom Do Pastors Exist?

Share this:

Like this:

The Question being: “What do you think is under this sheep clothing-?

Is it — a real shepherd, a wolf or a false prophet?” (Matthew 7:15)

Share this:

Like this:

Share this:

Like this:

Share this:

Like this: