Tag Archives: Chandler

Does All Scripture Point To Mark Kelsey And C3 Leaders?

28 Tuesday Feb 2012

Posted by in C3 Culture, C3 Ministry, C3 Spirituallity, C3 Teaching, C3 Values

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EXEGESIS, EISEGESIS & NARCIGESIS

When a pastor teaches the congregation, they are meant to use exegesis.

A basic definition of ‘exegesis‘ is a, ‘Critical explanation or interpretation of a text, esp. of scripture.’1

This is the correct way to handle scripture. However, eisegesis was a very popular method used by pastors to approach the scriptures.

A basic definition of ‘eisegesis‘ is a, ‘personal interpretation of a text (especially of the Bible) using your own ideas.’2

This is an incorrect way to handle scriptures.

A basic definition of ‘narcissism‘ is ‘Extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of one’s own talents and a craving for admiration’.3

When you combine a narcisistic pastor using eisegetical methods you get Furt- a pastor who reads themselves into biblical passages. For example, they are to be a King David conquering giants. They are a Moses, leading the people. They are Solomon bringing the glory of God through their wisdom and expansion of the House of God. This is now becoming known as ‘narcigesis‘. No pastor should use the bible to exalt themselves.

ALL SCRIPTURE POINTS TO JESUS

Jesus said,

“You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!” John 5:39

By reading ourselves into the text, we replace Christ with ourselves. To do this is to be antiChrist-like. John MacArthur says,

“The spirit of Antichrist has always been in the world. It has manifested itself both in open opposition to Christ and in subtle attempts to replace Christ.”4

The term Antichrist is explained in Vines Expository Dictionary,

“Antichrist: can mean either “against Christ” or “instead of Christ,” or perhaps, combining the two, “one who, assuming the guise of Christ, opposes Christ” (Westcott). The word is found only in John’s epistles”

This is what makes pastors, teachers or leaders who practice narcigesis dangerous. If pastors  are reading themselves or their audience into the biblical text, they are reinforcing the belief that scriptures point to themselves, “instead of Christ”. We have seen Phil Pringle also replace God the Father with himself and Jesus with money. See articles:

C3 Giving Sermon Transcript: Just Another Manic Sunday

“Let Me Just Talk To You Out Of A Scripture” – Pringle’s Use of John 3:16

To quote Pringle from the articles:

“When it says ‘God so loved the world’, we need to put ourselves in there and say, ‘I so love the world, that I will give the only begotten son’. And for us to actually achieve that, to spread the Word of God around the world; to plant churches, make disciples, empower saints, build bible colleges- all of it is done through your giving.”

And again:

“We will so love the world that we will give sacrificially”.

In other words, his narcigetical interpretation of the text is, “For I so loved the world that I gave my finances sacrificially.” He would not be that bold to say something so obviously wrong. However, that is what Pringle was essentially saying.

Scriptures say,

“… This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.” 1 John 2:22

John 3:16 is a fantastic verse that teaches that the Father sent his Son so that we may believe in Him to have eternal life. Pringle denied this passage to speak alone on eternal life given to us by the Father and Son. He denied people access to the gospel. He denied people access to the Way of Salvation through the Father and Son. Instead he pointed a different direction to his congregation – self and money.

This is a good example why narcigesis is dangerous. Unfortunately, Executive Pastor Mark Kelsey took it one step further.

IF ONLY THIS WAS APRIL 1ST…

On the 1st of June 2011, Mark Kelsey spoke at the C3 Church Sydney Leaders Meeting.

“… And then Isaiah 61 sees Jesus walk into the temple. And goes, ‘Oo! Could be my day!’ He sees the scroll handed to the son of God. He sees him unfold it. He’s going, ‘Isaiah sixty one. Isaiah sixty – sixty one! One! One!”

And He, Jesus starts to read it. And He said, “Today this scripture’s fulfilled in your hearings.” Suddenly that scripture was fulfilled. You see, even Jesus found his identity in the word of God. Even Jesus- He didn’t go, “I’m the Messiah by the way. Did I tell you that? I am the Messiah.” He didn’t say that. He went to the scripture, found Himself in the word of God.

Where are you in the word of God? Where are you in it? Where are you in the word of God? Because THAT is what gets God on you. It’s not about knowing scripture, it’s about finding yourself IN the scripture. There’s the difference!” – Mark Kelsey, C3 Church Sydney Leaders Meeting June 1 2011, 19:19, http://vimeo.com/24594951, Uploaded Thu June 02, 2011.

At 10:49, Mark Kelsey says to C3 leaders about Christians in their bible studies (Connect Groups),

“They wont be impressed by what you know. They’ll be impressed by what’s on your life. That’s what touches people. That’s what feeds people. That’s what brings revival.” – Mark Kelsey, C3 Church Sydney Leaders Meeting June 1 2011, 19:19, http://vimeo.com/24594951, Uploaded Thu June 02, 2011.

WHY KELSEY SHOULDN’T USE MARKEGESIS

Remember what Jesus said?

“You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!” John 5:39

Mark Kelsey above teaches C3 leaders that “it’s not about knowing scripture” but wants them to apply scripture in a way that makes other Christians ” impressed by what’s on [their] life”. He is using the scriptures for selfish gain. This directly opposes the declaration of Christ and should not be how any Christian minister should teach.

Finally, Mark tells the C3 leaders that other Christians “wont be impressed by what you know” and how “what’s on your life. That’s what touches people. That’s what feeds people. That’s what brings revival.” Really Mark? Are we God? Are you speaking from experience?

1. Who touches people’s lives IS the Spirit of God.

2. Who feeds people IS the Word of God.

3. Who brings revival IS God when we exalt Him by preaching repentance through the gospel.

4. And we are NOT Jesus who IS the Word of God.

IN CLOSING

What was just reinforced in the minds of C3 leaders was narcigesis: putting confidence in the flesh; throwing out the Word of God and BECOMING the Word of God (“It’s not about knowing scripture, it’s about finding yourself IN the scripture”). This is very troubling.

This is the very EXACT THING that Pastor Matt Chandler spoke against at Steve Furtick’s ‘Code Orange Revival’. This was the sermon that annoyed Steve Furtick which he afterwards sensored. Possibly due to critics, he uncensored Chandlers sermon. Read our articles about this here:

Phil Pringle Endorsing Problematic Steve Furtick for Presence Conference 2012

Chandlers sermon is well worth the watch:

In essence – the scriptures NEVER point to fallen, sinful creatures. They point mankind to God, Jesus Christ – the fulness of God in bodily form. We are in Jesus but we are not Jesus. We are made in His image but we are not God.

If you feel lead to pray for Mark Kelsey and the C3 movement, please do so.

______________________________

[1] Oxford American Large Print Dictionary, Oxford University Press, pg. 434.
[2] Wordnet, Princeton University, http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=eisegesis, (Accessed 28/02/2012).
[3] Wordnet, Princeton University, http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=narcissistic, (Accessed 28/02/2012).
[4] John MacArthur, Grace To You, Marks of a True Believer, http://www.gty.org/resources/study-guides/40-5145/Marks-of-a-True-Believer, (Accessed 28/02/2012).

Follower of Furtick Says They Were “Consistently Ingesting Spiritual Poison”

20 Monday Feb 2012

Posted by in C3 & Pringles Associations, C3 Teaching, Pringle's Behaviour, Pringle's Issues/Events

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We’ve already bought up our concerns regarding Phil Pringle inviting Steve Furtick speaking at Pringle’s C3 Presence Conference 2012. Read the article here:

Phil Pringle Endorsing Problematic Steve Furtick for Presence Conference 2012

Brittany Smith, reporter from the ‘Christian Post’, records a conversation Chandler had with Furtick last year:

“The Reformed community is not a big fan of you,” Chandler told Furtick last year during The Elephant Room, which featured blunt conversations and debates among influential pastors. Chandler had expressed concern that Furtick was rejecting doctrine in the name of outreach.” – Brittany Smith, ‘The Bible Is Not About You,’ Says Young Evangelical, http://www.christianpost.com/news/the-bible-is-not-about-you-says-young-evangelical-67210/, 16/01/2012. (Accessed 20/02/2012)

People also may be critical of Rosebrough’s harsh criticism of Furtick. However, Rosebrough received an email from a member of Steve Furticks church. This member confirmed Chandler, Smith and Rosebrough’s understanding of Furtick. Rosebrough read out the email on his radio program here:

Laying Hold of Eisegetical Nonsense

Chris Rosebrough said,

“Ok. This email comes to us from a man who lives in Charlotte, North Carolina. He and his wife attended Elevation church for five years. However, they will no longer be attending. And – I’m not going to give you his name cos I know how the Elevators will treat him if they heard who this was.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, Laying Hold of Eisegetical Nonsense: 21:55, http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2012/01/laying-hold-of-eisegetical-nonsense-.html, 19/01/2012.

This email gives us good insight to Elevation and Furtick. The ex-Elevation member wrote to Chris,

“I just wanted to thank you for your ministry. I’ve been extremely blessed by it in the past few days as I’ve listened to your archives learning about discernment and all of the tricks used by false teachers. I had been going to Elevation Church for the past five years every single week until very recently. I have been feeling unrest for many months, considering leaving the church, sensing much ego on Furtick’s part amongst many other things…

But I was held back by the lies taught every week thinking, ‘Surely, for the church to be flourishing the way it is, it must be God, right?’. Boy was I wrong.

I also want to point out  that despite daily prayer and reading of the Word, I have been unable to grow spiritually, bound by the completely backward, narcissistic eisegesis, teaching at Elevation church. After Matt Chandler’s unbelievable message, and much that I had learned listening to your podcasts, I now know why I haven’t been able to grow spiritually. I have been consistently ingesting spiritual poison and have been reading the bible completely wrong.

I feel like my eyes have been opened and I have had difficulty understanding how I could listen to that, week-in and week-out. But I am just glad that I have escaped that trap. Looking back at all of the people there and how it kept me from growing or even learning anything about Jesus, I have the very uneasy feeling Elevation is being used as an extraordinary cunning tool of evil used to ensnare people. A masterfully orchestrated show, designed to manipulate emotion!” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, Laying Hold of Eisegetical Nonsense: 22:47-24:41, http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2012/01/laying-hold-of-eisegetical-nonsense-.html, 19/01/2012.

The letter goes on,

“I want to point out a couple of observations that I found interesting from Matt Chandlers sermon.

  1. He seems to be looking and preaching directly to Furtick to his left much of the sermon. Especially when he makes points of the bible ‘not being about you’.
  2. He repeatedly says, ‘Look at me’, before saying an important point. Could he be saying that to Furtick?

The cameramen tended to show the crowd and those on stage whenever the audience was clapping. So I scrubbed through the sermon and watched every time it happened, watching Furtick, who did not clap once or even appeared to be paying any attention to Chandler. He was slumped back like a teenager with an attitude. I was especially unnerved when Matt Chandler proclaimed that He doesn’t want Matt glorified. He [God] wants to be glorified in, and everyone applauded except for Furtick. When Chandler says, ‘You are not the centre of the universe’, he looks directly at Furtick. To proclaim that and stare at him in the face when he is clearly despising everything Chandler is saying is so unbelievably bold. He says, ‘There is no sin in your life past, present or future that has more power than the cross of Jesus Christ. None’. That’s forty one minutes into the sermon to applause and amens, accept for Furticks, who at that point is leaning on his fist, presumably glaring at Chandler. He’s normally unbelievably energetic, jumping around, raising his hands, amening pastors off the stage. I don’t want to extract meaning that isn’t there but why won’t he acknowledge the cross of Christ when he so exuberantly acknowledges every other thing uttered by guest preachers?

I’ve watched him for years and I have never seen him behave that way. Thanks again. My wife and I spent hours upon hours, listening to you show learning discernment and being encouraged.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, Laying Hold of Eisegetical Nonsense: 26:50-29:01, http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2012/01/laying-hold-of-eisegetical-nonsense-.html, 19/01/2012.

We must ask the question, why on earth would Pringle invite such a dangerous teacher to speak to thousands of Christians? Does Pringle not care of his spiritual duties as a pastor?

Phil Pringle Endorsing Problematic Steve Furtick for Presence Conference 2012

17 Friday Feb 2012

Posted by in C3 & Pringles Associations, C3 Ministry, Other, Pringle's Influences

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Once again, Pringle chooses a preacher based on popularity rather than accountability. Pastor Steve Furtick is a controversial pastor that is highly abusive and very controlling. Below is the latest news on Steve Furtick and his Code Orange Revival incident. Phil Pringle is clearly oblivious to the teachers, what they taught at this meeting and the Furtick fiasco behind the scenes,

“Watchng #CodeOrangeRevival http://bit.ly/zHRTZp WOW! So look 4ward 2 Steve Furtick wit us #Presence2012 10th-13th Aprl http://bit.ly/yylQEb” – Phil Pringle, https://twitter.com/#!/philpringle/status/159429028732874752, 18/01/2012.

HAS PHIL PRINGLE LOOKED AT STEVE FURTICK’S TRACK RECORD?

Steve Furtick has continually proven to demonstrate strong intolerance towards his critics and expresses his disgust to them. His video ‘Hey Haters’ reveals his hypocrisy and immaturity. The video he made reveals how little tolerance he has towards his critics:

He has demonstrated hostility to his own congregation for being disciples and those wanting to know more about Jesus.

In the above sermon, he is noted for also saying,

“If you know Jesus, I am sorry to break it to you, this church is not for you.” – Steve Furtick, Confessions of a Pastor

Quick reminder, he is speaking at C3 Presence Conference. He also says,

“We don’t teach from Books of the Bible because it gets in the way of evangelism. We don’t offer different kinds of Bible studies because it gets in the way of evangelism. We don’t teach doctrine because it gets in the way of evangelism.

If you want to be fed God’s word or have the Bible explained to you then you are a fat lazy Christian and you need to shut up and get to work or you need to leave this church because we ONLY do evangelism.” – Steven Furtick

In saying this, Furtick is rebelling against God’s Word and is going against the great commission that Jesus himself says (emphasis mine),

“Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

While loving each other and evangelising the world are good things, we need to be careful to tightly hold onto the truth at all costs otherwise the church will be thrown by every wind and wave of doctrine (Ephesians 4). Furtick’s extreme focus on evangelism and emergent Christianity has him breach the following scriptures: John 21:15-17, Luke 10:38-42, Matthew 28:19-2, John 8:31-32, Acts 2:42, Titus 1:7-10, Titus 2:1-10, 2 Timothy 4:1-4, 1 Corinthians 1:18-25.

We have seen the toll of Furtick not remaining theologically faithful. He has endorsed some abusive leaders and heretics for his code Orange Revival 2012. We will see in his Code Orange Revival why it was labelled the Heresy Olympics.

WHAT HAPPENED AT FURTICK’S CODE ORANGE REVIVAL?

While Phil Pringle was wowed by Steve Furticks Code Orange Revival (COR), Chris Rosebrough from ‘Fighting For The Faith’ was appalled by the heresy that was present there. Rosebrough has addressed some problematic key speakers  in the past. These included speakers TD Jakes, Perry Noble, Ed Young Jr and James MacDonald just to name a few. Listen to his commentaries on the COR here amidst the Matt Chandler sensorship issue:

BREAKING NEWS: Code Orange Coverup?? **Updated**

Code Orange Revival Weekend 1 Recap

BREAKING NEWS: Elevation Employee Reveals Reason For Chandler Sermon Censorship

Is Steven Furtick the One Whom the Prophets Longed to See?

Code Orange, Revival or Deception?

Code Orange Revives Mythology

Laying Hold of Eisegetical Nonsense

The Antidote to Antichrist’s Anti-Truth

2012 Heresy Olympics Medal Ceremony

Chris Rosebrough observed the reaction of Steve Furticks body language to Matt Chandlers sermon. Rosebrough got straight to the point and addressed Steven Furtick’s bad behaviour stating,

“He’ll [Steven Furtick] tolerate any gospel except for the biblical gospel. Yeah, if that isn’t the case then why did he hack that out? Why did he hack it out? That was his first impulse and that’s exactly what he did. He was NOT happy – and you can see it in his body language, you can see it in what subsequently happened with him hacking it out. And the final thing was, well, he was caught red handed. And so he had to make the decision to put the sermon back in through the rebroadcasts at 10:12 and 12:12.” – Chris Rosebrough, Code Orange Revival Weekend 1 Recap: 17:58, http://0352182.netsolhost.com/F4F011612.mp3, 16/01/2012.

The behaviour, decisions and actions of Steve Furtick do highlight his personal issues with proper theological preaching and highlights his immaturity as a pastor.

The Sola Sisters from http://solasisters.blogspot.com.au, also looked to see what happened at the event regarding Chandler and Furtick. Below is their article.

Matt Chandler Goes To Code Orange Where He Exalts Christ, Confronts Narcissistic Man-Centered Preaching, and *poof* He’s Gone

Posted by Christine Pack

For those unaware of the latest brouhaha in Evangelicalism, let me first lay out the facts. Steven Furtick, megachurch pastor at Elevation Church in Charlotte, North Carolina, is currently hosting a revival which is running from January 11-22 and is promoted as “a 12 night worship experience to set the stage for 2012.” The event is entitled “Code Orange” to indicate, according to Elevation Church’s website, “a heightened sense of urgency….something significant is about to happen.” The line-up of speakers for Code Orange includes Craig Groeschel, Jentezen Franklin, Matt Chandler, Christine Caine, Ed Young, Israel Houghton, Perry Noble, James MacDonald, T.D. Jakes, etc.

So Matt Chandler, pastor of The Village Church in Highland, Texas, and one of the invited speakers at Code Orange, stood up at Elevation Church and delivered what turned out to be a barn burner of a sermon. In his distinctive delivery style (that is to say, humble, loving, direct and at times laugh-out-loud funny), Chandler took aim at the kind of preaching that has been so aptly termed “Narcissistic Eisegeis,” and at which Steven Furtick, and so many others in the seeker sensitive movement, excel.

“For the time will come when people will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around them a great number of teachers to say what their itching ears want to hear. They will turn their ears away from the truth and turn aside to myths.” 2 Timothy 4:3-4

Narcissistic Eisegesis (“Narcigesis”) = Forcing the Bible to mean something you already want it to mean by superimposing yourself into the meaning of the passage, rather than interpreting Scripture for what it means about God, and letting the Scripture simply speak for itself. Conversely, seeking to understand Scripture for what it reveals about God is known as Exegesis, and is also sometimes referred to as the “Literal” or “Grammatical-Historical” approach to interpreting Scripture. Example: The Narcissitic Eisegesis version of David and Goliath would be about you fighting your personal “giants” (i.e., problems, difficulties, setbacks, etc.). The Exegetical approach to interpreting David and Goliath would reveal, instead, an historical account of David’s faith and God supernaturally intervening in an impossible situation for his own glory.

Matt Chandler,
Pastor of The Village Church

Now, back to Elevation Church, Code Orange, and Matt Chandler’s sermon. First of all, before the letters start, I am aware that Matt Chandler is affiliated with Acts 29, has contemplative authors on his site and has claimed audible words from God. I’m not putting a stamp of approval on any of that by posting Chandler’s sermon. The church is in a big muddle today, and I truly do think that we’re in the end times deception, such that even the elect might be deceived. But here’s a thought: maybe part of that playing itself out is that some will appear to be slipping, but when push comes to shove, will stand up and preach Jesus Christ and him crucified. The desire, of course, is for the ones who appear to be slipping to demonstrate that their feet are firmly planted on the Rock of our Salvation – Christ – and it appears to me that Matt Chandler is demonstrating just that. Because really, for Chandler to go to Elevation Church and preach as he did? To stand up before thousands and thousands of people, knowing that his message would not be well received? That could not have been easy, and it demonstrates a fear of God, rather than a fear of man. So the sermon rocked, Christ was exalted, and man was humbled. I can only speak for myself, but I personally need sermons that pierce me and break me and make me lie down on the floor, repenting and crying, and also remind me of the only hope that I have, which is not that I can be great and conquer problems but that God is great and has made a way for wretched sinners (like me) to be reconciled to himself.

But now for the controversial part. Chandler’s sermon was immediately pulled from the Code Orange rebroadcasts. This was pointed out by several Christian writers, including Chris Rosebrough of Fighting for Faith and Ken Silva of Apprising Ministries. Then, the sermon reappeared in subsequent rebroadcasts with a cryptic message from Elevation’s graphic designer about a decision being made to “reformat the content” for the purpose of focusing “the broadcast on Jesus.”

So we’ll let you be the judge. Matt Chandler’s sermon is posted above, where you can listen to it in its entirety. Was this a sermon that should have been pulled because it did not focus on Jesus?
Do you honestly think Pringle knows enough about Steve Furtick to have him speak at Presence Conference 2011? Do we really need this man to influence thousands of Christians in Sydney?