• About C3 Church Watch
    • Church Watch Rules
  • C3 Scandals
  • C3 Testimonies
  • C3 Tirade Brigade
  • C3’s Bible Garble
  • Church Leaders Speak Out
  • Finding a good church near you
  • LoveIs What Exactly?
  • Pringle’s Oracle Debacles

C3 Church Watch

C3 Church Watch

Tag Archives: church

What Noise Will You Make In 2016?

31 Sunday Jan 2016

Posted by Nailed Truth in C3 & Pringles Associations, C3 Culture, Sermon Reviews

≈ 9 Comments

Tags

c3, c3 church, Caley Korocz, church, Korocz, wolves

In his introduction to this particular Fighting For The Faith program, Chris Rosebrough gives a serious warning to those who twist God’s Word.

Chris begins:

“In my lecture I delivered in Norway on “sola scriptura”, my primary text was the Great Commission. Let me read what the Great Commission says …”

Matthew 28:18-20: “And Jesus came and said to them, all authority in heaven and earth has been given to me.“

That’s an important statement right there, and a lot of people, when they look at the Great Commission, they often ignore that. Ok, Jesus isn’t speaking his opinion, he’s speaking what he’s giving us to do now that all authority, yes all, there’s no authority in heaven or on earth that hasn’t been given to Christ. He is the head not the tail, if you know what I mean and He has willed for His church to do something very specific. Here’s what it says,

“Go therefore and make disciples of all nations.”

What is a disciple? A disciple is a learner. What are they to be learning? Well, Jesus answers, he says:

“…make disciples of all nations, baptising the in the name of the Father, Son and. Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all I have commanded you.”

Yes, in other words, in the Great Commission, you actually hear the doctrine of Sola Scriptura writ large by Jesus himself because in His church, according to the authority that has been given to Him, Christ has said to go and make disciples. And what is it we’re supposed to be teaching them? All that Christ has commanded.

Now you’re thinking “well, where do I find that?” Yes, that’s a great question, I’m glad you asked. The only place I know of that you can go with any certainty and know that you are actually teaching the words of Christ, is all of the written word of God. And you’re thinking, “Woah, wait a second there Chris. You know Jesus is a New Testament guy, you know. He doesn’t even show up until, you know, the beginning of the Book of Matthew!”

And I would say, “if you think that, then you don’t know your bible.” Because Jesus is all over the Old Testament, all over it. He’s right there in Genesis chapter 1, verse 1. He was the one who said: “Let there be light”. He was the one who said: “Let the earth produce vegetation and plant and seed bearing trees according to their kinds.” He is the one who spoke the universe into existence, that’s right, Jesus is the one. And so, he makes appearances all throughout the Old Testament. He’s all over the place and really the whole Old Testament is about him.

And so I know with certainty because Jesus says, Jesus himself. When he was doing his earthly ministry here, when he was incarnate in his humbled state, to come and to die on the cross for our sins and to obey God’s Law perfectly. Jesus himself makes it clear that the Old Testament as we have it, that would be the Pentateuch, you know, the first five books of the bible, the writings of the prophets. That this is the Word of God. He always refers to it as that and quotes it authoritatively. So I know the Old Testament, that the Word of God, those are words of Christ. And I also know that the writings of the Apostles we find in the New Testament, those are also authoritative . And they are the words that Christ would have us learn because Jesus Himself, He personally didn’t write any books. We don’t have a single book that Jesus wrote Himself during his earthly ministry. In fact, He left that up to the Apostles and He tasked them with the job of making disciples of all nations. And the disciples are discipling the nations even to this day, through the Apostolic records.

So yes, I’m sorry but if you believe that we’ve been commissioned to go make disciples, learners, of all nations, baptising, teaching all that Christ has commanded, well then that demands Sola Scriptura. Not only does it demand Sola Scriptura, it also demands that the one who gets up and speaks in Christ’s church, remember all authority has been given to Him, the one who gets up and dares to speak in Christ’s church had better only speak what Christ would have us speak.

And that is what He has revealed in His written Word, rightly understood and correctly taught. Otherwise that person, who is speaking his own words, his own doctrines, his own ideas and supplanting what Christ has commanded us, with their own ideas, oh, that it a wicked servant, that is the type of servant that is discussed well in John chapter 10, the hireling who jumps the fence and doesn’t come in by the gate. Yes those are the ones you need to beware of and over and again we show here at “Fighting For The Faith”, day in, day out, week in, week out, month in, month out, and now year and year and year – you know we’ve been on the air for almost ten years, I cannot believe we’re coming up on ten years but still have a little ways to go.

We’re not quite there yet but we demonstrate that so much of what passes for preaching today in Christ’s church, the one to whom all authority has been given in Heaven and on earth, it doesn’t actually square with what Jesus has told us to teach. It isn’t an historical biblical Christian orthodoxy, it’s not sound doctrine at all, it’s something completely different and that is dangerous and not only that, that is flat out rebellious.

You call yourself a Christian? You call yourself a Christian and you twist and mangle God’s Word without any pangs of conscious? Beware, that is sin of the highest order, it’s treason in Christ’s church and it is a sin for which many will find themselves in the lake of fire. So repent. Don’t listen to the bible twisters. Christ doesn’t want you to listen to them. He only wants you to listen to those faithful shepherds who rightly handling His Word and proclaiming the Truth and proclaiming Christ and truly making disciples of Jesus by only teaching what He has commanded….something to think about.”

The particular sermon delivered and reviewed in this program is from Caley Korocz, a young woman who attends C3 Oxford Falls in Sydney, the same C3 led by Phil Pringle.

Caley Korocz

Chris asks us to,

“note the pattern of how God’s Word is twisted, very similar in each of our segments. [see program below] Not exactly sure how to describe what we are hearing but it’s a far from a correct handling of God’s Word. It’s like the exact opposite of what that would supposedly sound like. But then again, the C3 folks, you know, they’re not really into that “God’s Word” much thingy at all. No they twist it and and disobey it and ignore parts of it and all this kind of stuff including the part that actually forbids who it is you’re going to be hearing, from doing what it is that’s she doing.

Yes, Gods Word certainly forbids what it is we’re going to hear Caley do but apparently that has not stopped the folks over there at C3 church to give her the stage, the podium and let her preach a sermon and twist God’s Word, (which of course she will not be disciplined for, but I will be called a “hater” for pointing out that what’s she done is sinful and wrong).”

We here at ChurchWatch are saddened to see this young woman, (who is obviously a talented communicator), believe she is called of God to preach a false message that brings no hope. A false message that burdens its hearers with Law, Law, Law and no gospel. All this happening under the watch of Phil Pringle (and yes, he has told the church he watches online whenever possible). A hireling who, rather than take up the task of preaching faithfully through the sound text of scripture week by week as a faithful shepherd would do, allows the “summer Session” attendees be exposed to a message that brings “death”, not LIFE as found in Christ and His Word faithfully preached.

A hireling who draws disciples after himself.

“Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood. I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock; and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after themselves. Therefore be alert.” Acts 20:28-31 

Dr. Paul Kretzmann in his Popular Commentary noted:

[Paul] knew that after his departure from them, in a future which was not greatly distant, there would enter into the flock from without grievous, ravening, ferocious wolves, false teachers that would have no mercy on the flock, but would use every means to disrupt the congregation, to murder the souls by trying to persuade them to accept false doctrine. And in addition there would be factionists from within, out of their own membership, men that would arise…with a doctrine full of perverse and antichristian matter, with the intention of drawing away those that were already Christians, the latter thereby becoming guilty of apostasy from the truth and from the true Church of Christ. These two dangers looming up before them, the elders of Ephesus should watch, be on their guard, exert constant vigilance.” [Source] 

Click on the link below to listen to the FFTF Podcast, “What Noise Will you Make in 2016?”

What Noise Will You Make in 2016?

PROGRAM SEGMENTS:

00:12:14 – Lou Engle The Call Azusa Now
00:34:15 – Tammy Southerland Fire House Prayer and Revival Hub Launch
00:39:37 – Tim Philip Believing is Seeing
00:57:34 – Bobby Schuller Interviews Brian Houston
01:16:39 – Sermon Review: What Noise Will You Make in 2016? by Caley Korocz of C3 Sydney

Source: Chris Rosebrough, What Noise Will You Make in 2016?, Pirate Christian Radio, http://www.piratechristian.com/fightingforthefaith/2016/1/what-noise-will-you-make-in-2016, Published 25/01/2016. (Accessed 29/01/2016.)

Share this:

  • Share
  • Facebook
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
  • Pinterest
  • Reddit
  • Email

Like this:

Like Loading...

Don’t get angry at us…

12 Sunday Oct 2014

Posted by Nailed Truth in Uncategorized

≈ 7 Comments

Tags

angry pastor, church, pastor

Christian Post published this rather clever but unusual piece,

I am an Angry Pastor (A Statement of Purpose)

I am an angry pastor.
I am not angry with my congregation.
I am not angry at the world.
I am angry with my fellow pastors.
I’m also a little angry with myself.

Let me explain. For the last few years I have watched pastors that I love and respect, go off the rails on the proverbial “crazy train.” I have watched with horror (a horror, I know, that many have shared), as John Piper not only embraced Rick Warren, but also joined him as a ministry partner. I have seen James MacDonald embrace a Christ denying, non-Trinitarian, pagan ‘prosperity preacher,’ as a “brother in Christ.” I cried a bit, over the horrors that were revealed in the Sovereign Grace Ministries scandal.

I have watched, wringing my hands, often making excuses, and looking the other way because I just did not want to believe what I was seeing. I did not want to believe that these men, solid gospel-believing, Christ affirming men, the men whose lives I have modeled my own ministry after in some respect, could fall so hard, so fast, and so completely. I didn’t want to see what was right in front of me, because I love these men (even though I have never even met most of them), and I wanted to give them the benefit of the doubt.
Well, I was wrong. Deadly wrong…in fact, I believe that I, and the pastors and elders like myself (which are the vast majority) who have given these men a pass are neglecting a very important part of our duty; confrontation.

Let me give a recent example.

I have marveled at the antics of Mark Driscoll (over at +The Resurgence )for some time. Now, I am no big fan of +Mark Driscoll , I need to say outright. Yet I have followed his career to some extent. A few years back, I cheered when he publicly repented of his vulgarity from the pulpit, and his association with the Emergent church movement, and vowed to move in a new direction. It was wonderful to see someone publicly acknowledge their wrongdoing, and I was quick to welcome him to the fold with proverbial “open arms.” No, I didn’t send him a greeting card, or get together with him for brunch…my attitude toward him just changed. I no longer viewed him as a dangerous heretic. When Christian friends asked, “What about this Mark Driscoll guy?” my response changed from a look of horror (combined with the sign of the cross and a liberal flinging of holy water in their direction), to “Meh. He’s alright.”

Which was a huge mistake. Driscoll is a bigger danger now, than he ever was before (Driscoll has taken a temporary leave of absence, but I do not believe it will last long). Let me ask you, dear reader, when is a wolf the most dangerous to the sheep? When he is standing outside the sheepfold growling? Or when he is inside, standing in the midst of the sheep? I have been complicit in allowing Mark Driscoll access to the very sheep that I have been charged by God with protecting. I have opened the door, and welcomed him in…

Dereliction of duty. That is the charge I am leveling against myself, and fellow elders & pastors.
One of our primary duties as pastors is to protect the sheep. Defend them against heretics; protect them against those who would lead them astray. Peter tells us this:

1 Peter 5:1-2 So I exhort the elders among you, as a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, as well as a partaker in the glory that is going to be revealed: shepherd the flock of God that is among you, exercising oversight, not under compulsion, but willingly, as God would have you; not for shameful gain, but eagerly.

Because we have forsaken our duty as pastors, there have arisen a huge number of “discernment ministries,” aimed at calling these people to account. These “ministries” have been highly criticized by pastors, attacked from all sides, belittled, and mocked. Some of them are overzealous, crazy even, and they are rightly called out for their behavior. Many others, though, are simply trying to fill the void created by the pulpit’s silence, calling out false teachers who need to be called out! These are courageous sheep, which jump in front of the flock to defend it from the snarling wolf, while the under-shepherd who is charged with the flock’s protection sits idly by (NOT the Chief Shepherd! He is never idle). They are doing, pastors and elders, what we should be doing. Protecting the sheep.

Think of the Janet Mefferd Show / Mark Driscoll debacle that occurred recently, when Mefferd confronted Driscoll about his blatant (yes, it was blatant and intentional…let’s be honest. Pages of plagiarized material do not “accidentally” end up in your book) plagiarism. She was attacked, seemingly, by everyone for daring to confront this man. Now, I have said publicly that I thought she could have done what she did better. This is undoubtedly true. Nevertheless, I am glad that she did it.

Now, I am not trying to get into a discussion of those events here. I simply wish to say this; Mefferd should never have had to do what she did. That radio interview never should have happened. Because Driscoll should never have attained the position that he has. His book should never have been published by +Tyndale House Publishers . He never should have gained that kind of prominence. There have been countless elders and pastors, complicit in his misconduct, who allowed it to get to that point. Driscoll should have been stopped long before this…

Listen, let me close by stating this as clearly as I can. I know many pastors who get angry at the discernment folks. But it has finally dawned on me, that this is nuts. A pastor getting angry at the discernment bloggers is insane. Does the welfare recipient get mad at the working people who pay their bills? Should the fireman who sits quietly in his truck, watching as the building burns, get mad at a passing civilian for saving the children who are screaming for help inside?

Pastor, elder, friend, how are you going to get mad at someone who is doing your job for you, because you refuse to do it?

Not me. Not anymore. I will keep my anger directed where it belongs.
At myself, and my fellow pastors.

Source: By Damon Rambo, I am an Angry Pastor (A Statement of Purpose), Christian Post, http://blogs.christianpost.com/the-angry-pastor-blog/i-am-an-angry-pastor-a-statement-of-purpose-23220/, 10/10/14 at 12:44 AM. (Accessed 12/10/2014.)

Like this:

Like Loading...

An Insightful Analysis To The CHC System (Part 5)

19 Thursday Sep 2013

Posted by Nailed Truth in Uncategorized

≈ 7 Comments

Tags

analysis, c3, c3 church, CHC, Christian City Church, church, city harvest, copy, crossover, Ho Yeow Sun, Kong Hee, marc ronez, Phil Pringle, Pringle, scandal, six charged, Sun Ho

Kong Hee says about CHC, Phil Pringle and the C3 Church Movement,

“You can’t talk about City Harvest Church without talking about C3. Or Christian City Church. You know Pastor Phil has been there for me; praying with me; encouraging me; discipling me; telling me how to do the work of the ministry; taught me how to collect an offering; how to give an altar call; how to build a church; build a team. So Pastor Phil, from the depth of my heart, for Sun and myself, we wouldn’t be where we are today without you and Pastor Chris. Let’s give Pastor Phil and Pastor Chris a big clap.” – Kong Hee, Session 8: (00:24), Presence Conference 2010.

The above quote is something to think about while reading the below article by Marc Ronez. Before reading this fifth article, make sure you have read his earlier articles:

An Insightful Analysis To The CHC System (Part 1)
An Insightful Analysis To The CHC System (Part 2)
An Insightful Analysis To The CHC System (Part 3)
An Inisghtful Analysis To The CHC System (Part 4)

Here is Ronez’s fifth article analysing the CHC situation:

City Harvest Case part 5: CHC’s Crossover or Sun Ho’s Crossover

Posted on September 13, 2013 by Marc Ronez

As explained in my previous post “City Harvest Case Part 4 – Can You Rationalize a Crime to be a Benefit to Society?“, the CHC investigations and trial have turned the spotlights on  a number of very questionable decisions and practices made by the CHC Leadership in relation to the Crossover project. While according to the CHC Crossover website, it was supposed to be an Evangelization project using secular pop music as a mean to reach out to “people who would never think of setting a foot in a church”, the Commissioner of Charities (CoC) and the Prosecution view the situation very differently. From their perspectives, the essential purpose of the CHC Crossover project was to provide the funds necessary to finance the costs associated with the launch of Sun Ho’s secular musical career in Hollywood (See links to articles about the CHC case). Looking at the facts that have been uncovered so far, it seems indeed clear, as already discussed in my post “City Harvest Case Part 2 – If there is a Fraud what would be the Motives?”, that Sun Ho has been the main “beneficiary” of the Crossover project and of the funds allocated to it. Hence in this post, the focus will be on some of the very troubling questions that Sun Ho and her role in the crossover project – has raised as follows:

  • Question 1: Why was Sun Ho chosen as the main focus and only vehicle for the Crossover project?
  • Question 2: How does Sun Ho’s U.S. music breakthrough attempt fit with the objectives of the Crossover project?
  • Question 3: How does Sun Ho’s public statements and lifestyle in the U.S. align with the objectives of the Crossover project?
  • Question 4: How does Sun Ho’s U.S. stage personae fit with the objectives of the Crossover project?

To provide a balance perspective on each of the questions stated above, we will analyze them systematically to find out the following:

  1. Ethical Dissonances: Why the decisions and behaviors of the CHC leadership can create ethical dissonance issues? What is questionable about these issues?
  2. CHC leadership’s rationale: How were these issues rationalized by the CHC leadership in order to make their decisions and behaviors acceptable by church members and even to win their support?
  3. Critical Perspective: What are the potential weaknesses in the argumentation used by the CHC leadership to rationalize their decisions and behaviors?

Question1: Why was Sun Ho chosen as the main focus and only vehicle for the Crossover project?

1. Why should this be considered an ethical dissonance issue?

From a secular perspective, there is a basic conflict of interests situation in this case. The decision to “select” Sun Ho as the only vehicle for the crossover project among all the thousands of CHC church members is questionable, considering the simple fact that she is the wife of the senior pastor who was making the decision. The conflict of interests will cast some doubts on the motivations of Pastor Kong Hee. The suspicion is reinforced when you note that City Harvest Church has no lack of spiritually minded singing talents such as Annabel Soh, Sendy Bolang and Alison Yap. Did Sun Ho have necessarily the best voice, look, creative talent and story for the “pop star” job scope?

2. What is the CHC Leadership’s Rationale on this issue?

Pastor Kong Hee repeatedly claimed during church services that the command about Sun Ho’s crossover came directly from God Himself, that he and his wife carefully confirmed it through months of prayers and the counsel from spiritual mentors. In particular, Pastor Kong stressed that they had received supporting prophetic words from Pastor Phil Pringle (currently Senior Pastor of C3 Australia and advisory pastor of CHC) as well as by other prophets, prophetess and even “signs and wonders” such as the many thousands of souls that were saved during her concerts in Taiwan in 2003. All this “proving” that it was indeed a mission that God had given to her. Pastor Kong Hee concluded that in the end, he and his wife had no choice, but to “surrender to the Will of God” and accept the mission.

3. Critical Perspective on the CHC leadership’s argumentation

Whether you are religious or not, a bit of skepticism is not just welcome, but in fact necessary to be able to ask some very simple and reasonable questions to leaders. The purpose is to ensure an appropriate level of accountability from the leadership. Ensuring accountability is indeed a very important principle in risk management. The accountability principle works for everybody’s benefits, including the leaders’ themselves by establishing check and balance mechanisms, preventing them from loosing touch with the reality of the principles that are supposed to guide their decisions and actions.

Did Pastor Kong Hee and Sun Ho loose touch with reality in the CHC case? In this regard, I have already mentioned above that it may sound quite self-serving for Pastor Kong Hee and Sun Ho to claim that God made the decision. So let’s explore this issue a bit further by asking more questions..

CHC cash Down-the-DrainAssuming that God indeed made the decision to choose Sun Ho as the vehicle for the Crossover, then how much money do you think, God would need to help her to make a breakthrough on the U.S. pop music scene? Considering that God is almighty and can do anything, He would certainly help her through signs and wonders. It does not mean that Sun Ho would not have to work hard to succeed, but God could and would open doors miraculously at critical times. However from what we can observe in Sun Ho’s case, it seems unfortunately that 7 years of trying very hard with 3 different top producers and spending at least SGD 24 millions  were NOT enough to succeed… Shouldn’t that raise some serious questions about whether God was really supporting this project?

With that in mind, how to justify the almost EXCLUSIVE focus on Sun Ho for the most critical Evangelization project of the church? If the Pop Music reach out strategy is really as effective as claimed by CHC leaders, then why support only one singing talent and not 2 or 3 or even more in order to reach a wider audience? It should have been possible to spread the SGD 24 millions to support a lot more artists or artistic projects in the church instead of just one. Furthermore risk management best practices would usually recommend “not putting all your eggs in the same basket“. It is often both more prudent and yet effective to spread your risks so as to minimize your exposure to failure, while at the same time to maximise your chances of success. Church members should certainly question the wisdom of the decision to choose Sun Ho as the vehicle for the Crossover project from both an ethical and “business” point of views. According to the prosecution, extravagant amount of Church members’ money was invested in Sun Ho’s Crossover and the question is, was it invested appropriately?

Question 2: How does Sun Ho’s U.S. music breakthrough attempt fit with the objectives of the Crossover project?

1. Why should this be considered an ethical dissonance issue?

Pastor Kong Hee has repeatedly shared during services the vision given to him by God that with CHC, he was to lead the way for a Christian renewal in Asia. So the obvious question is why did Sun Ho ended up in the U.S. for 5 years (from 2005 to 2010), trying to make a breakthrough on the pop music scene there? Many CHC members may have questions regarding the connection between the U.S. adventure and the Asian Christian renewal mission of CHC.

2. What is the CHC Leadership Rationale on this issue?

The rationale provided by the CHC Crossover website is that breaking through the U.S. pop music scene would have turned Sun Ho into a global star (the first from Asia), thus increasing her appeal, influence and hence her ability to reach into many people’s lives in Asia and even around the whole world. As a result, Sun Ho would have been able to “shine for Jesus Christ” and achieve all the official Crossover objectives (that I have already mentioned in a previous post, “City Harvest Case Part 1: Following God or Mammon?“). Pastor Kong further claimed that the decision to go to the U.S. was also a direct command given by God to them that had been “confirmed” through months of prayers and by miraculous signs. As examples of these miraculous signs, Pastor Kong Hee claimed during church services that a famous U.S. music producer (later identified as Justin Herz) was so impressed by Sun Ho’s music video “Miss Catastrophe” that he asked her to pursue a career in the U.S., predicting that she would have a great future there. You can check the video below to make you own judgment of its Hollywood potential.

 

Pastor Kong Hee also mentioned that another company (later identified as Tonos) had also offered to Sun Ho a 5 million dollars contract to launch her career in the U.S.. He asked the congregation to pray for her to help her make the right decision about the contract (see link to a prayers list given to CHC members during service in 2005). Here again the command of God was also confirmed by anointed prophets, including strong prophetic words by by Pastor Phil Pringle and blessings by Dr A R Bernard, Senior Pastor of the Christian Cultural Center, New York and CHC advisory chairman.

Finally Pastor Kong Hee repeatedly stressed during services in front of the congregation that going to the U.S. had been a very difficult decision for them to make, as after the birth of their son, Dayan, both he and his wife really wanted to focus more on their family. But in the end, as the command of God was loud and clear, here again they “obeyed” as they had no other choice but to surrender to the Will of God.

3. Critical Perspective on the CHC leadership’s argumentation

There are a few points I would like to cover here. First Pastor Kong Hee and Sun Ho claimed that they had to “sacrifice” their family life in Singapore to obey God’s command. However when we look more closely at the facts, we can observe that Sun Ho was enjoying the “super star” lifestyle, hiring renowned producers and top choreographers, getting large advance bonuses, living in a SGD 28,000 a month luxury mansion in a plush Hollywood district, buying clothes from top fashion designers, being served  by a large entourage of helpers (primarily members from the church) and participating in A-list events with other socialites. In short, she was the main beneficiary of the Crossover project and its fundings. Furthermore Sun Ho brought her family along with her in L.A., giving them the opportunity to enjoy those benefits as well. Finally Pastor Kong Hee himself also moved to the U.S. to be with his family and enjoyed the same luxury socialites lifestyle. He even charged quietly his business class traveling expenses to the Church ($700,000 according to information revealed during the trial). So when a sacrifice comes with so many benefits, we may wonder whether it is still a sacrifice..

Second, it now appears that many of the “miraculous signs” that Pastor Kong Hee had highlighted as proofs of God’s support to the Crossover project, in fact, did not happen or were of dubious nature. For example, what to make of the views of an experienced and renowned industry expert such as Justin Herz who predicted Sun Ho’s success in the U.S.? Let’s consider the following scenario: Imagine that you are an American music producer and you need to make a lot of money to finance your expensive lifestyle, then you come across an Asian pop singer wanabe with big dreams. Unfortunately for her, your professional experience tells you that there is slim chance for her to succeed (for whatever reasons i.e. lack talent, no X factor, etc.).

But then you find out that money is not a problem for her as she is the wife of the Senior pastor of a very wealthy church who even said to you that “the sky is the limit” when it comes to funding his wife’s career (see Todayonline article). Is this going to affect your professional judgment? Considering that at least $6 millions was paid to his company, a cynical view would say that Justin Herz would probably have predicted “the moon” to somebody able to pay him that kind of money. In the many fraud cases I have investigated, I have often noted that you can almost always find a group of people who, while they are not directly involved in the fraudulent scheme, will often knowingly take advantage of the situation to extract money for themselves.

Another example of the “miraculous signs” that did not materialize is Tonos, the company that had supposedly offered to Sun Ho a $5 millions contract to finance the launch of her career in the U.S. had actually stopped operations (see picture on the left) one year before Pastor Kong Hee made the contract offering claim in front of his congregation in 2005 . To put it simply, there was no $5 millions contract. The question is, how could Pastor Kong Hee make knowingly that claim in front of his congregation.

Finally the rationale given to justify the whole U.S. adventure is that 1) the way to influence Asia was through the Sun Ho’s U.S. success and that 2) at the same time, God had extended Pastor Kong Hee’s Christian renewal mission to cover the American continent as well. Pastor Kong Hee just listened and obeyed. There are a simple observations and reasonable questions we should we ask as follows:

We should ask why did they need to take the U.S. detour when it had been claimed in church that Sun Ho was already a very successful (multi-platinum) singer in Singapore, Taiwan and was breaking through in China (she was featured specially on a First-Day Cover Stamp-series in June 2004 and was invited to sing the anthem at the 2007 Special Olympic game in Shanghai among other things)?

  • God of course can extend the mission He has given to Pastor Kong Hee to include the U.S. as well. Pastor Kong Hee continuously claims that God talk to him and that as a faithful servant, he listens and obeys. This is of course very good for a Christian but we can observe an interesting trend ever since the Crossover project started.  It is interesting to observe that God seems to very conveniently agree to whatever Pastor Kong Hee wants to do and will bring him and his wife tremendous benefits. Did God ask Pator Kong Hee to move to the U.S. to spent a lot of money in order to enjoy the lifestyle of the “rich and famous”? Did God ask Pastor Kong Hee to fly Business Class to go home to the U.S.? Did He also asked him to quietly charge $700, 000 of his personal traveling expenses to the church? Or is Pastor Kong Hee extrapolating widely when interpreting the will of God?

Question 3: How does Sun Ho’s public statements and lifestyle in the U.S. align with the objectives of the Crossover project?

1. Why should this be considered an ethical dissonance issue?

While the Crossover project was almost exclusively – in terms of resources allocation – focussing on Sun Ho, her public statements in the U.S. is problematic as she appeared to quite clearly dissociate herself from the Crossover project as well as from City Harvest Church. During media interviews, when probed about her music and connection to CHC, she repeatedly declared that, “I don’t want to think of it as a crossover album” (example: South China Morning post Article “here comes the Sun”) also playing down her connection to City harvest Church as “just the church I’m affiliated to” (read the PR.com Article “Sun Rising“).

2. What is the CHC Leadership Rationale on this issue?

The rationale given by the church leadership is that Sun Ho had to go “undercover” because if  the secular world knew that her breakthrough attempt on the U.S. pop music scene was a Christian Evangelization project, she would have faced tremendous opposition. Pastor Kong Hee often referred to the bible and more precisely the book of Daniel to explain how Christians engaged in the marketplace like Sun Ho should behave. He stressed that Christians are in the world, but not of the world! Like Daniel, you have to engage society to be able to reach positions of influence where you can be a positive force for changes.  Daniel became a high ranking official in the court of the Babylonian king, exerting a strong influence to protect his fellow countrymen.  In order to achieve all these, Daniel had to be “in the world” from the outside looking and behaving like a Babylonian. But he was “not of the world” as he remained true to his faith to God and love for his jewish countrymen. So in summary like Daniel, Sun Ho was just playing a role. The role of a superstar in order to breakthrough on the U.S. pop music scene and achieve a position of influence where she would have been able to “shine for Jesus Christ” and reach into the lives of many people.

3. Critical Perspective on the CHC leadership’s argumentation

The CHC leadership came up with a very effective rationalization as when you buy into the explanation provided, it can justify almost anything. Whatever Sun Ho did that could look like “out of range” can and will be categorized as some kind of necessary “role-playing” for the sake of the Crossover project success. But does the end really justify the means? The question is: Where do you draw the line to make sure that you do not fall too deep and too far to avoid falling into the evil, depravity, and corruption of this world? In other words, how can we be in the world without becoming tainted by the world? Referring again to the Book of Daniel, I would like to point out that although he was indeed on the surface in many ways looking and behaving like a Babylonian, he did have very strict red lines. The most important of them was that he never denied or even played down his faith in God and his loyalty to his community. Even the threat of death did not make him waver. However when it comes to Sun Ho, one may wonder what were the red lines. We will discuss the issue of her U.S. stage personae in Question 4, but I would like to refer to some of the statements she made during media interviews. In those media interviews, when she was asked direct questions about her connection with CHC and her Christian faith, she either eluded the questions or made outright incorrect statements, for example denying that she was a pastor and claiming she was just a counselor in a church she is affiliated to (read the PR.com Article “Sun Rising” for more examples). It seems that Sun Ho was no Daniel after all.

Question  4: How does Sun Ho’s U.S. stage personae fit with the objectives of the Crossover project?

1. Why should this be considered an Ethical Dissonance issue?

The stage personae that Sun Ho adopted to try to breakthrough on the pop music scene in the US is another sticky point that we need to cover with regard to the U.S. road strategy. While the demure nice romantic girl personae that Sun Ho cultivated for the Singapore and Taiwan markets was easily connected to Christian values (even as she was singing secular songs), the much edgier ‘lady GAGA’ type of personae that Sun Ho morphed into for her U.S. adventure was understandably much more difficult to relate to the same Christian values that Sun Ho was supposed to promote. A Geisha dancer in China Wine, who end up with murderous thoughts in Mr Bill and a Gothic ringleader of outcasts in Fancy free may NOT be the kind of role models you would like to offer to your children, even when you are not Christian parents. You can follow the above links to see the videos for yourself. While we may appreciate (or not) the videos from an esthetic or musical point of view, you cannot blame many people – especially Christians – to wonder how this kind of personae and videos will help promote the Gospel values.

 

2. What is the CHC Leadership Rationale on this issue?

You can find on the CHC Crossover website the claim that the “US music market is much edgier and louder than the Asian music market” and therefore a demure nice romantic girl personae would NOT work there. It goes on to further explain that a personae is just an imaginary character, a role used in videos and performances obviously different from the real personality of the artist. And it conclude by declaring that using a personae is “just part and parcel of the music industry”.

3. Critical Perspective on the CHC leadership’s argumentation

So what was the CHC Crossover strategic breakthrough plan then? Was it to make edgier videos until Sun Ho could finally have a breakthrough on the U.S. pop music scene? And then once she had finally become a superstar, she would suddenly shine for Jesus Christ by strongly promoting her Christian faith and encouraging her fans to go to church? If that was the idea, CHC members may wish to question the wisdom of it.

Furthermore CHC members could also question the wisdom of the choices of artistic collaborations made to produce Sun Ho’s singles and albums. For example, the collaboration with renowned rapper Wyclef Jean is potentially questionable for a project of the nature of the Crossover. Why? Simply because besides the probably extravagant cost of hiring him, you could also be puzzled, as a CHC member, about this choice from an artistic and spiritual point of view considering that Wyclef has a track record of music that usually seem to glorify alcohol, sex and careless fun. It may seem a bit difficult to fit that “package” into a Christian evangelization project. Finally, do you really need to be “edgier” to succeed in the U.S. as claimed by the CHC Crossover website? If so, how then would you explain the phenomenal success of Celine Dion, Adele, U2, Coldplay, Justin Bieber and many more artists who did not have to overplay the supposedly edgier side of the U.S. music industry to succeed?

CHC Crossover or Sun Ho’s Crossover?

With all the above in mind, is it inappropriate to ask whether the U.S. stardom quest was really centered on God (except of course to provide the funds to finance it)? Or could it just have been the journey of a woman wanting to realize her own personal stardom dreams?

Sun Ho’s vs the 6 prosecuted CHC Leaders

Considering the findings of the risk analysis that I have developed over my series of posts on the CHC case, many readers might be puzzled as to why Sun Ho, being the main beneficiary of the Crossover project, is not part of the group of the 6 CHC leaders being prosecuted in this case. While she was initially suspended from executive duties in CHC together with other leaders, the CoC has recently dropped their case against her and allowed her to resume leadership roles in CHC. Sun Ho was quick to claim victory and stressed that she had been totally vindicated by the decision made.

This very strange situation where the main beneficiary of suspected fraudulent activities can walk away free, while some other leaders who did not benefit from it (at least not directly) end up being prosecuted for it may seem to challenge common sense. But it can actually be explained quite easily when you consider that there is an important legal principle that applies here as follows:

Everyone charged with a penal offence should be presumed innocent until proven guilty in accordance to the law in a public trial at which he or she has had all the guarantees necessary for a fair defense.

This presumption of innocence means that it is the responsibility of the prosecution to prove the guilt of a criminal defendant and that he (or she) also has the right to a fair defence.

So contrarily to what Sun Ho claims, she has not been vindicated by the CoC decision to allow her to resume her leadership role in CHC and by the fact that she has not been prosecuted in the ongoing case. It simply means that both the CoC and the prosecution obviously felt that they did not have enough material factual evidences to link her directly to the suspected wrongdoings.

What does this actually means?  It could be interpreted in 2 ways:

  1. First, we could postulate that Sun Ho had no ideas of what was happening. That she really thought as she declared during interviews with various media that the crossover, her luxury lifestyle and her charitable activities were financed primarily by her royalties, recording contract, business venture revenues and some friendly businessmen (read the PR.com Article “Sun Rising“). She just sacrificially focussed on playing as convincingly as possible the title role of the “global super star to be” scripted for the Crossover project without asking questions.
  2. Second, we could on the contrary postulate that she was closely associated with many of the questionable decisions made. However, the fact that she had resigned from her Church position in order to Crossover to the secular side and hence was no longer officially directly involved in the management and decision-making in CHC,  may have helped to keep her away from the reach of the prosecution for now. Furthermore she could have only given face to face verbal instructions without leaving any written traces of them. In such a case, it may indeed be difficult to find hard material evidences to link her to the suspected wrongdoings.

Who paid for the Crossover?

The extravagant amounts paid to finance her pop music career, and her carefree,  luxury lifestyle in the U.S. have shocked many church members, the christians community and even the wider public who may have wondered what has it got to do with Christian evangelization works.  The important question here, is who paid for the “party”? This will be the subject of my next post entitled: City Harvest Case Part 6 – The Smog of the Crossover Financing (coming soon). So keep on the lookout for it.

Source: Marc Ronez, City Harvest Case part 5: CHC’s Crossover or Sun Ho’s Crossover, http://marcronez.wordpress.com/2013/09/13/city-harvest-case-part-5-chcs-crossover-or-sun-hos-crossover/, 13/09/2013. (Accessed 19/09/2013.)

Share this:

  • Share
  • Facebook
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
  • Pinterest
  • Reddit
  • Email

Like this:

Like Loading...

David Yonggi Cho Church Fraud? (Part 2)

10 Friday Aug 2012

Posted by Nailed Truth in C3 & Pringles Associations

≈ 9 Comments

Tags

c3 church, church, elders, Korea, Phil Pringle, private assets, protest, Seoul, Yeouido’s CCMM Building, Yoido Full Gospel, yoido full gospel church, yonggi cho

Phil Pringle’s protege Kong Hee, is currently under investigation by Singaporean authorities. Among others, he has been charged for the mishandling of church funds. Read the following:

“City Harvest Church’s Kong Hee’s statement regarding charges”

“6th City Harvest Church executive charged”

Lawyers Say Statement By Executive Pastor Of CHC Is Risky

City Harvest Church Charged On Allegedly Cheating the “church of over $50 million”

Official Statements Surrounding The City Harvest Church Crisis

More Insight To The Financial Misconduct Charges of City Harvest Church

Kong Hee To Be Charged for “Conspiracy to commit Criminal Breach of Trust as an Agent”

Is Hee To Be Free?

Pringle’s Close Friend, Kong Hee – Arrested

It also must be noted that Phil Pringle KNEW that Kong Hee was under investigation but continually did not inform his C3 Church network, nor Christians or Churches, locally, nationally or globally. Instead Kong Hee has been elevated or portrayed as a victim in his circumstances. Specifically this year, Kong Hee encouraged people to empty their bank accounts at this years Presence Conference. Not once did Pringle or Kong Hee disclose to those at this event WHY Kong Hee was being investigated:

Empty your Bank Account | Phil Pringle’s negligence in allowing Kong Hee to fleece at Presence 2012

How Can Kong Hee Say “I Do Maintain My Integrity”(Part 3)

But in the past, scrutiny has been turned on Phil Pringle’s mentor Yonggi Cho by Cho’s elders. Read part 1 here of Yonggi Cho before reading below:

David Yonngi Cho Church Fraud Investigation? (Part 1)

The Hankyoreh reports,

Yoido Full Gospel Church purges elders who blew whistle on founder

Yoido Full Gospel Church has suspended or expelled 28 elders for not withdrawing legal accusations against senior pastor David Yonggi Cho, 77.

The punishments are a form of retaliation for blowing the whistle on alleged misdeeds by Cho and his son Hee-jun, 48. This comes even as the father faces prosecution for more than US$10 million in breach of trust losses and millions of dollars in taxes evaded, while the son, a onetime Kookmin Ilbo chairman, was placed under court custody in January, which is evidence that the allegations were likely true.

Yoido Full Gospel Church has around one million members and is the biggest Pentecostal Christian congregation in the world. It was founded in 1958 by Cho and his mother Choi Ja-shil, who are both Assemblies of God pastors.

The church announced on Mar. 14 that its committee for the current term had held a meeting where it decided to expel elders Kim Dae-jin, Kim Seok-gyun, and Ha Sang-ok, who led the accusations against Cho in 2011, and suspend the other 25 who took part.

The committee was chaired by senior pastor Lee Young-hoon and made up of 46 other members including representatives of the church steering committee. It passed the disciplinary action by a vote of 36 in favor, nine against, and two abstentions. According to church bylaws, an expulsion is the second strongest disciplinary action after excommunication, stripping the person of all duties within the church for over one year. A suspension strips an individual of duties for six months or more.

After an emergency meeting on Feb. 17, the church announced that it would be taking action if the whistle blowers did not retract their accusations against David Yonggi Cho. On Feb. 28, the Assembly of God of Korea – a church affiliated with Yoido Full Gospel – and the Christian Council of Korea (chaired by Rev. Hong Jae-chul) said that anyone who did not withdraw their accusations against Cho would be dismissed according to church code.

“Obviously, the disciplinary action is wrong,” said a church elder who spoke on condition of anonymity. “The elders’ accusations were true. It is also wrong procedurally to discipline them for not following the order to withdraw their accusations when it was not an official decision by the church conference.”

One elder who was disciplined said they were planning to appeal the decision in terms of church rules and civil law.

Kim Ae-hee, secretary-general of Christian Alliance for Church Reform, said the elders felt compelled to go to prosecutors after the church did not respond when the matter was raised internally.

“What the flock wants is for the prosecutors to investigate the breach of trust charges fairly,” Kim said. “Hopefully, Rev. Cho will go along honorably with the investigation without any interference from the church.”

Source: By Kim Kyu-nam, Yoido Full Gospel Church purges elders who blew whistle on founder, The Hankyoreh, http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/578213.html, Mar.15,2013 14:20 KST. (Accessed 24/06/2013.)

Finally, we have this article:

From: http://www.straitstimes.com/PrimeNews/Story/STIStory_715350.html

Thanks to http://lady-wen.blogspot.com.au/2011/09/dr-yonggi-chos-comment-on-japanese-25.html for the above screen grabs. Lady Wen wrote this article on the 23 September 2011. The writer expresses her thoughts on this which reveal the that her mind has been conditioned by false Word Faith teaching,

“Fast forward 6 mths later, Straits Times has disproved my suspicion. I remembered being upset if that was really what he said. Mind you, the whole world was mourning with Japan then. Can you imagine how the Japanese must have felt when they hear a South Korean say they deserved the devastating earthquake?

Yet in retrospect, I can understand what possessed Dr. Cho to make such a seemingly unkind comment; my grandma also said something along the lines of the Japanese paying for their past sins (referring to the earthquake) and I don’t blame her or Dr. Cho for such prejudiced views towards the Japanese cos they had to go through what I didn’t – World War II.

Granny was only a teenager then and her family had to hide in the jungles for fear that the Japanese would capture my great grandfather who was a village head. I think what was most scary was that she had to look like a boy and dress shabbily so that the Japanese soldiers wouldn’t rape her.

She is now 84 years old while Dr. Cho is 75 and you know, that’s how the older generation talk sometimes – they cannot help themselves as they’re very set in their views. I guess the difference is that the latter is veryeducated and was/is a pastor of the world’s largest church, which made his comment that much harder to swallow.

I visited New Life Church in Taipei when I was there for vacation
in June and guess who was preaching?
Mrs. Cho! =) A.k.a Dr. Kim.

Loved their bulletin and envelop btw, so colorful and cheery! Dr. Kim’s message was about being happy and rejoicing even in trying circumstances. She shared how she had to learn to overcome really trying circumstances in her life, like when certain people in her church disagrees with certain things, no details mentioned…

Who are these 29 elders and what do they have to gain if this was a baseless accusation done only to smear Dr. Cho?

They must be super long time church members like twenty years kind if not how to become elders and hold leadership positions right? The question on my mind is why would these long time church leaders have the guts to file a civil suit against Dr. Cho if they honestly did not have any substantial evidence to believe so?They are long time church leaders but they actually have no moral integrity? Then how did they even become leaders in the first place? Hmmmmmm……..

If this happened in CHC, it’ll be like Pst Tan, Derek, Aries, etc. coming together to sue Pst Kong for misuse of funds! Unimaginable and freaking scary rite!”

If this was a baseless accusation thrown just so that Dr. Cho and his family would relinquish control of the church… WA LIAO. If I were the senior pst, I would throw them out of church once investigations results are out and let them go find another one. I mean, how could you do this to the man who slogged his entire life to make the church what it is today and betray him like that?

I dunno if that’s what Jesus would do in the same circumstance but that is what I would do lol. (I’m obviously not called to be a full-time pastor! =D)

I don’t want to speculate why Dr. Cho cannot let go mgmt of the church funds completely etc. but I imagine it must be really hard to… If like him, you’ve invested 50 yrs of your life into an organization, would u be able to bo chup when you retire? I think that requires a lot of faith, doesn’t it? =D”

NOTE: ALL SCREEN GRABS WERE TAKEN ON THE 25/07/2012.

Any complaints with the information presented? Email: c3churchwatch@hotmail.com and we will review the article and fix any errors.

Share this:

  • Share
  • Facebook
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
  • Pinterest
  • Reddit
  • Email

Like this:

Like Loading...

David Yonggi Cho Church Fraud? (Part 1)

10 Friday Aug 2012

Posted by Nailed Truth in C3 & Pringles Associations

≈ 2 Comments

Tags

c3 church, church, elders, Korea, Phil Pringle, private assets, protest, Seoul, Yeouido’s CCMM Building, Yoido Full Gospel, yoido full gospel church, yonggi cho

We have already examined how closely linked Phil Pringle is with Yonggi Cho.

Phil Pringle And David Yonggi Cho

Here is Yonggi Cho giving a full endorsement of Phil Pringle and Pringle’s written material:

The golden prosperity triangle consisting of Cho, Hee and Pringle are now coming under scrutiny. Phil Pringle’s protege is being investigated by Singaporean authorities. But did you know that Phil Pringle’s mentor, David Yonggi Cho, is under question by his elders? Yonggi Cho seems to have misbehaved and his elders aren’t happy about it. 

If Yonggi Cho is not accountable to his elders, who is he accountable too? Who is Phil Pringle or Kong Hee accountable too?

From: http://english.hani.co.kr/arti/english_edition/e_national/488394.html (Accessed 25/07/2012.)

Elders act to prevent megachurch pastor from privatizing church assets

Posted on : Jul.21,2011 14:14 KST

During Yoido Full Gospel’s leadership transfer, disputes have arisen over control of ministries, the national newspaper, and university

By Lim Ji-sun

Around 30 elders at Yoido Full Gospel Church in Seoul have begun a protest aimed at Emeritus Paster David Yonggi Cho and his wife, demanding that the couple refrain from making the church their own private assets.

From around noon on July 20, the elders protested outside the Main Sanctuary at “Osanri Choi Ja-sil Memorial Fasting Prayer Mountain” in Paju, Gyeonggi Province, holding a banner demanding that Kim Sung-hye, Cho’s wife, quickly return 10 billion won ($9.5 million) in construction fees that she had taken in order to build a memorial to Cho. On the day, a religious gathering for Asian believers was being held and Kim, who is also president of Hansei University, was delivering a sermon.

At around 1 p.m., the elders held up placards with slogans such as “Don’t make the church your own private possession” and “Do you like material possessions more than heaven?” toward Cho and Kim, who were coming out of the sanctuary at the end of the gathering. In the process, scuffles broke out between the elders and church officials and Hansei University professors who blocked them.

Since April this year, the elders have been curbing attempts by Cho’s family to make the church part of their private assets through resolutions passed at the council, the church’s highest decision making body. On April 17, the council resolved to make Kim concentrate solely on Hansei University and overseas missionary activity; to make Cho and Kim’s second son and president of the daily Kukmin Ilbo newspaper, Cho Min-je, concentrate only on the Kukmin Ilbo; and to make their eldest son and former Kukmin Ilbo chairman, Cho Hoe-jun, choose only one of either Elim Welfare Town or an organization related to overseas churches.

On June 26, the council passed resolutions on five further issues, including deciding to take over the office in Yeouido’s CCMM Building that Kim had been using for free, and to make Kim return the 10 billion won she had taken from the church, saying that she would build a memorial hall for Cho.

Cho and Kim rejected these resolutions, and went a step further when Kim, who had decided not to give sermons in Korea, gave a sermon at the gathering at Prayer Mountain. This was when the elders decided to act.

The elders plan to conduct a sit-in protest at Yoido Full Gospel Church on July 24 to criticize the Cho family’s private appropriation of church assets.

Please direct questions or comments to [englishhani@hani.co.kr]

NOTE: ALL SCREEN GRABS WERE TAKEN ON THE 25/07/2012.

ANY COMPLAINTS WITH THE INFORMATION PRESENTED? EMAIL: C3CHURCHWATCH@HOTMAIL.COM AND WE WILL REVIEW THE ARTICLE AND FIX ANY ERRORS.

Share this:

  • Share
  • Facebook
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
  • Pinterest
  • Reddit
  • Email

Like this:

Like Loading...

… Or Hee Might Not Be Travelling At All

06 Monday Aug 2012

Posted by Nailed Truth in C3 & Pringles Associations

≈ Leave a comment

Tags

bail, bail double, CHC, church, City Harvest Church, double, Kong Hee, mariam yuan, S$1 million, Singapore, southeast asia, yuan

The  BikyaMasr reports:

Singapore City Harvest Church head sees bail doubled, travel uncertain

Mariam Yuan | 2 August 2012 | 0 Comments

Singapore’s City Harvest Church founder Kong Hee has been granted permission to travel abroad despite case against him.

SINGAPORE: Singapore’s City Harvest Church founder and top pastor Kong Hee saw his bail double on Wednesday to S$1 million, twice the original amount set.

The move was in response to Hee asking the court for permission to leave the country in order to attend to church-related meetings in Southeast Asia. The court approved the request. It remains unclear whether Kong will travel.

Source: Mariam Yuan, Singapore City Harvest Church head sees bail doubled, travel uncertain, http://www.bikyamasr.com/74374/singapore-city-harvest-church-head-sees-bail-doubled-travel-uncertain/, 02/08/2012. (Accessed 06/08/2012.)

Share this:

  • Share
  • Facebook
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
  • Pinterest
  • Reddit
  • Email

Like this:

Like Loading...

Resurrection Rort (Part 2)

09 Wednesday May 2012

Posted by Nailed Truth in Church Sermons, Pringle's Beliefs, Pringle's Doctrine/Gospel, Pringle's Jesus, Pringle's Language, Pringle's Methods

≈ 2 Comments

Tags

bible mangling, bible twisting, c3, c3 church, c3 church of, c3 church oxford falls, C3 Church Sydney, c3 church sydney oxford falls, c3 international, c3global, cash, ccc, ccc church, ccc church of, ccc oxford falls, ccc sydney, cccof, church, con, critics, economy, giving, giving talk, lie, lies, mangle, mangling, manipulation, money, money talk, mulah, Phil Pringle, Pringle, resurrection sunday, rort, scripture twisting

Don’t forget that Pringle denies preaching any other message than Jesus Christ and says he doesn’t preach a prosperity gospel.

Transcripts will be coming for both giving sermons. Here is the video.

Share this:

  • Share
  • Facebook
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
  • Pinterest
  • Reddit
  • Email

Like this:

Like Loading...

Pringle’s Resurrection Rort (Part 1)

01 Tuesday May 2012

Posted by Nailed Truth in C3 Scripture Handling, Church Sermons, Pringle's Behaviour, Pringle's Doctrine/Gospel

≈ 7 Comments

Tags

bible mangling, bible twisting, c3, c3 church, c3 church of, c3 church oxford falls, C3 Church Sydney, c3 church sydney oxford falls, c3 international, c3global, cash, ccc, ccc church, ccc church of, ccc oxford falls, ccc sydney, cccof, church, con, critics, economy, giving, giving talk, lie, lies, mangle, mangling, manipulation, money, money talk, mulah, Phil Pringle, Pringle, resurrection sunday, rort, scripture twisting

Pringle protests that he doesn’t preach the prosperity gospel.

We’ve documented Pringle saying that Jesus died to make people rich. But did you know Pringle also teaches that Jesus was also buried and resurrected to make you rich? Phil Pringle gave this giving sermon on Resurrection Sunday 2012.

He teaches people again to sow money so they can grow money trees (1:36). Using a seed packet analogy, he contradicts the scripture Hebrews 11:1 he used at the start of his talk (2:35 and 3:07). He goes on to say,

“If He [Jesus] can beat death, he can beat the GFC. If He can beat death, He can beat any debts you’ve got in your world. All you gotta know is that it takes the sowing of a seed.” (3:56)

Pringle turns Christ’s death and resurrection into a financial principle in how to get money:

“The reason you and I are here this morning is because one seed was sown and one human life died in the ground and it’s risen again. That exact same principle applies to our giving here this morning. God has such a longing in his heart to bless you.” (4:19)

Finally, Phil Pringle encourages his members to give money as follows:

“And so right now, why don’t you and I get involved in a resurrection offering? A victorious offering! One that rises from the dead! You might say, ‘My finances are dead’. Well, here’s a moment to resurrect them. Here’s an opportunity to take the hold of a principle that God’s put in our hands.” (4:41)

This is not a biblical teaching and is completely disregarding the importance of Christ’s resurrection. Apostle Paul said,

“I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,” Philippians 3:10

Pringle clearly wants to know a Jesus and the principles of the resurrection so he can get money. 

Pringle also teaches that money is Christ-like. In fact, it is probably safe to say that Pringle has great difficulty separating Jesus from filthy lucre. As his quote above teaches us: money dies, money becomes victorious and money rises from the dead.

Finally, Pringle prays to God in regards to this offering, “your ways are not our ways”. Who is Phil Pringle trying to deceive here? How is this God’s way? Does God really care about us acknowledging a principle that resurrects our finances? Or does God care about the way His Word is handled?

Please pray for those caught in this movement.

NOTE: SCREEN GRABS WERE TAKEN BEFORE 01/05/2012.

Share this:

  • Share
  • Facebook
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
  • Pinterest
  • Reddit
  • Email

Like this:

Like Loading...

Who Is The Liar? Phil Pringle Or God?

29 Sunday Apr 2012

Posted by Nailed Truth in Church Sermons, Pringle's Behaviour, Pringle's Beliefs, Pringle's Methods

≈ 3 Comments

Tags

bashing critics, bible mangling, bible twisting, c3, c3 church, c3 church of, c3 church oxford falls, C3 Church Sydney, c3 church sydney oxford falls, c3 international, c3global, ccc, ccc church, ccc church of, ccc oxford falls, ccc sydney, cccof, church, critics, lie, lies, mangle, mangling, manipulation, Phil Pringle, Pringle, scripture twisting, titus, titus 3:5

The scriptures say,

“You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you… After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing?” Galatians 3:1-4, NASB

“But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?” Galatians 4:9, NASB

“Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope.For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth? That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion will pay the penalty, whoever he may be.” Galatians 5:2-10, NASB

The scriptures also say,

“He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,” Titus 3:5, NASB, (Emphasis mine)

Before Pringle ‘lovingly’ bashes his critics (7:22), Pringle once again teaches people at C3 they can earn God’s grace by works. More specifically – if you give money, God gives you access to ‘grace’.

“And as you and I become givers in the kingdom of God, we’re gonna find ourselves accessing this grace. This unbelievable, inexhaustible, unending grace of God. Empowering you to have an abundance for every good work.” (6:57)

Click the time link above to see him make that specific comment or watch him say it in it’s proper context below.

You would have noticed C3 had plastered behind Phil Pringle this ‘scripture’:

“He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.” Titus 3:5

Was this orchestrated? Was this a coincidence? We can conclude it is very convenient for the scripture to be edited the way it was so Pringle could peddle this false doctrine that clearly contradicted the edited scripture. How is the moral and honest behaviour? Is this not leading people away from fundamental Christianity?

EDIT 05/05/2012: On the 4th of May, Phil Pringle twittered that his “media guys” had put something together to help with his message this coming weekend.

http://twitter.com/#!/philpringle/status/198306016620838912

This is insightful for us to understand what goes on behind the scenes. It seems safe to say that Phil Pringle endorses the content in regards to what his “media guys” present in his sermons. With this in mind, it is highly likely that Phil Pringle gave them the distorted Titus 3:5 scripture that read, “He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit”.

Share this:

  • Share
  • Facebook
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
  • Pinterest
  • Reddit
  • Email

Like this:

Like Loading...

Phil Fundamentally Flawed?

24 Tuesday Apr 2012

Posted by Nailed Truth in C3 Culture, C3 Spirituallity, C3 Teaching, Pringle's Doctrine/Gospel

≈ 4 Comments

Tags

c3, c3 church, c3 church of, c3 church oxford falls, C3 Church Sydney, c3 church sydney oxford falls, c3 international, c3global, ccc, ccc church, ccc church of, ccc oxford falls, ccc sydney, cccof, church, disciple, kingdom, kingdom of god, leadership meeting, member, phl pringle, Pringle, vision builders

Scattered through the New Testament are scriptures that explain the church is the people of God, the body of Christ. (1 Corinthians 12, Romans 16:5, Ephesians 1:22-23, 1 Peter 2:9.)

In one of his C3 leaders meetings, Pringle teaches his leaders that the church and the kingdom of God are two different things. He explains that the church is an organisation.

Pringle builds on this and teaches that church members live in the church and disciples live in the kingdom.

Can anyone explain where on earth Pringle got this teaching from? Is this is a holdover from Catholicism? What scriptures does he use to prove such absurd teaching?

An Enigmatic Messy Message

In the below video, C3 members will lay claim that the church is family; “the gateway to heaven”; “the place where Christ is”; “where his people are”; “an exhilarating experience”; “a real place where we gather together to worship”; “a God thing”; “not just a building – it’s us as people”; “His house”; “His strength”; “home”; and others, some implying that the church is either a gathering or specifically the C3 church or movement.

Could Pringle’s faulty fundamental doctrines explain why Pringle’s church members said what they said in this video?

While the video may be heavily edited, is it not concerning that the greater global body of believers isn’t recognised in this clip? Should it be concerning that Phil Pringle is teaching his leaders flawed fundamentals?

And he got his ‘doctorate’ how?

Is Doctor Phil Pringle Really a Doctor?

Share this:

  • Share
  • Facebook
  • Twitter
  • LinkedIn
  • Pinterest
  • Reddit
  • Email

Like this:

Like Loading...
← Older posts

WATCH, DISCERN, AVOID

Follow Us
Facebook

Sowell

_________________________________

OUR OTHER SITES

Latest Insights

Nailed Truth on Noble Preaches Furtick Is Mess…
k on Noble Preaches Furtick Is Mess…
ashevillesveryown on C3 Asheville Scandal – M…
churchwatcher on Phil Pringle Influenced By Occ…
Clinton on Phil Pringle Influenced By Occ…
2expose1 on Phil Pringle Influenced By Occ…
Tracker on My! What Big Faith You Ha…
Timothy Boisvert on C3 Asheville Scandal – M…
Bryce on Phil Pringle the “scam…
Tracker on Phil Pringle Influenced By Occ…

Latest Headlines

  • A Scholar On The Holy Spirit? Pringle And The Windy Way.
  • Phil Pringle – God’s Word confirms that you are a false prophet….
  • Have Christians lost the art of biblical discernment?
  • A valuable BTWN resource addressing dangers in evangelicalism

Bible Resources

bible.org

Good Christian Radio Resources

Good Church Resources

Good Discernment Websites

Feeling Supportive?

Must-Read Christian Books

The opinions expressed on this site do not necessarily represent the views of all contributors. Each individual is responsible for the facts and opinions contained in his posts. Generally we agree but not always.

Blog at WordPress.com.

  • Follow Following
    • C3 Church Watch
    • Join 252 other followers
    • Already have a WordPress.com account? Log in now.
    • C3 Church Watch
    • Customize
    • Follow Following
    • Sign up
    • Log in
    • Report this content
    • View site in Reader
    • Manage subscriptions
    • Collapse this bar
 

Loading Comments...
 

    %d bloggers like this: