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“Steven Furtick’s financial empire was built with BLOOD MONEY — money earned twisting God’s Word, preaching false doctrine & deceiving people IN THE NAME OF JESUS.” – Chris Rosebrough, 23/10/2013.
Could the same be said of Phil Pringle of C3 Church and Brian Houston of Hillsong Church?
In the last few months, people have been hassling or giving us links to report on the lavish lifestyle of Phil and Chris Pringle, Senior Pastors and Founders of the C3 Church Movement. The Pringle’s recently purchased a $3.5 million house and had no problem flaunting their lifestyle on twitter or instagram.
It’s been reported in the past that Brian Houston and his wife Bobbie have property deals of up to $1.4 million and that they are tenants of waterfront properties at Bondi Beach and the Hawkesbury River that they sold to LMI. Not to mention, it was reported that Houston said his total salary was “just over $300 000″.
My! What Big Faith You Have! (From Hillsong Church Watch)
Just recently, Steven Furtick (close associate of Phil Pringle and Brian Houston), has come under scrutiny over his $1.7 million house and his CEO approach to church ministry. Before looking at some news articles, we thought it would be good to provide an article and some links from the Pajama Pages blog on this issue. After reading the Pajama Pages articles, we have media articles reporting on Furtick’s mansion. We hope these articles help you understand the nature of how mega churches like C3 and Hillsong run.
Pajama Pages reports,
The problem with businessmenpastors. A reader’s contribution
A comment in the Walt White article is impressively on point that I think it deserves to be read by people who may not have made it to the end of that article. PP reader, Josh, posted the following this afternoon:
The problem with Furtick isn’t that he’s rich, or even that he’s a rich pastor. The problem is that he’s rich because he’s a pastor. If professing Christian Steven Furtick started a successful bakery, retail store or construction company in 2006 that was incredibly successful, so much so that he could buy a $3 million home, few would criticize him for enjoying his earnings. In fact, the world and people in the church generally look favorably on successful Christian businessmen. No one questions how Truett Cathy spends his Chick-fil-a money, for example.
The problem is that Furtick and others got their money by turning the church into a business. Pastors like Furtick are obsessed with business leadership because they fashion themselves as the CEO and identify more with celebrity CEOs like Steve Jobs than with non-celebrity pastors. Decisions are made by the CEO to build the brand, to create a larger customer base, to increase the giving margin, and to expand into new opportunities. Church personnel decisions are made in the same way. Is the youth pastor growing the youth brand? Is the worship pastor stylish enough? While such decisions are constrained at some point by biblical considerations…they aren’t going to hire a guy who publicly rejects the Bible…the biblical standards of Titus 1 and 1 Timothy 3 aren’t really considerations.
This creates two problems, though. One, churches aren’t businesses and aren’t supposed to be run as such. There is nothing wrong with Macy’s developing a non-fraudulent pricing and promotional strategy designed to extricate consumers with as many spending dollars as possible. Macy’s should offer products and services designed to produce high margin income. But churches aren’t businesses. The pastor shouldn’t spend time developing (or, more likely, purchasing from consultants) “offering talks,” or message series, or coaching services, or conferences with a goal of increasing the church’s income. The church shouldn’t be selling books and t-shirts and lattes and Bibles or anything else. God’s house is not a house of merchandise!
So when the Furticks of the Christian world stand up and talk about money (and they talk about money a lot!) it sounds a lot like Macy’s running television commercials for their two-day After-Thanksgiving sale. When they preach on tithing (a subject on which Bible-believing Christians can easily disagree), it sounds self-serving because it is self-serving. Is it Furtick the preacher of God’s Word talking, or Furtick the CEO of Elevation Church, Inc. talking? Nothing has changed in two thousand years. A pastor cannot serve two masters.
The second problem is the conflict of interest between the company (the church) and the CEO (the pastor.) Former GM CEO Charles Wilson reportedly once claimed that “What’s good for GM is good for the country.” (A misquote, but that’s not the point here.) Celebrity CEO pastors seem to believe that what’s good for the Lead Pastor is good for the church. That’s why they freely write and promote books on the church’s time and bring in other celebrity CEO pastors to “teach” (with undisclosed and sizable speaking fees). Does Furtick invite Craig Groeshel to teach for $____ because Groeshel brought in Furtick to teach at Lifechurhc for $_____? No one knows because it’s all a big, big secret. Is the five-week sermon series on “Sun Stand Still Prayers” for the edification of the church, or to promote the CEO’s new book, which is conveniently for sale in the church bookstore. Building the CEO’s profile will help him sell books, increase his demand as a guest speaker, and feed his ego. But does it benefit the church? None of your business.
The clear conflict of interest is exacerbated by an utter lack of accountability. Sure, if Furtick gets caught sleeping with his cute personal assistant (which has happened in at least two smaller CEO-style churches I’m aware of), he couldn’t salvage his position. But no one from inside his inner circle is going to question his business dealings, his use of church time to work on and promote his books, his purchase of his own and friends’ books by the church, his speaking fee at churches with mutual relationships, or his promotional choice of message series. Anyone from the inside who did ask such impertinent questions would suddenly find themselves on the outs, and in a personality-driven organization, loss of access to the leader is a dire sanction. Outsiders in the media or blog may ask questions, but they won’t get answers. And the rank and file members will stay on and keep giving…
Source: The problem with businessmen pastors. A reader’s contribution, Pajama Pages, http://www.pajamapages.com/the-problem-with-businessmen-pastors-a-readers-contribution/, 30/10/2013. (Accessed 01/11/2013.)
Here are some follow up articles on Steven Furtick you can read up on.
Articles from The Charlotte WCNC.com:
By STUART WATSON / NBC Charlotte:
NBC Charlotte obtains confidential Elevation report
Posted on November 4, 2013 at 11:31 PM, Updated Tuesday, Nov 5 at 12:42 PM. (Accessed 10/11/2012.)
By STUART WATSON / NBC Charlotte:
I-Team: Pastor’s salary set by board, not congregation,
Posted on October 23, 2013 at 7:34 PM, Updated Thursday, Oct 24 at 10:21 AM. (Accessed 10/11/2012.)
Articles from The Charlotte Observer:
Elevation Church pastor building big home in Waxhaw,
Posted: Wednesday, Oct. 23, 2013. (Accessed 10/11/2012.)
By Stuart Watson:
Elevation Church pastor Steven Furtick responds to his critics,
Posted: Sunday, Oct. 27, 2013. (Accessed 10/11/2012.)
By Elisabeth Arriero:
Elevation Church pastor Steven Furtick: 16,000-square-foot house is gift from God
Posted: Sunday, Oct. 27, 2013. (Accessed 10/11/2012.)
Any more articles that are found on this issue, we will gladly add.
Answer: They’ve all been reviewed and validly critiqued by Chris Rosebrough on his program, ‘Fighting for the Faith’. They’ve also spoken together at Pringle’s C3 Presence in 2012.
Recently, Chris Rosebrough reviewed the false teachings of Kong Hee, Phil Pringle’s protege. In 2011, Steven Furtick stated that he sees Phil Pringle as a valid prophet of God and an inspirational friend and leader. Chris Rosebrough also in this episode reviews Steven Furtick’s response to the stories about Furtick’ new million dollar property.
NOTE: The resent sermon that Kong Hee delivered is a rip off of a sermon he gave at the C3 Presence Conference back in 2011. You may like to compare the two sermons.
Visit Fighting for the Faith now or click the below link to download the radio episode.
OCTOBER 31, 2013
Majority Of Charismatic Manifestations Are Fake
• Mike Bickle Says Majority of Charismatic Manifestations are Fake
• Kong Hee Butchers Genesis 15
• Steven Furtick’s Response to the News Story
• Sermon Review” YOLO: Renegade by Vince Antonucci
Source: Majority Of Charismatic Manifestations Are Fake, Fighting For The Faith, http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2013/10/majority-of-charismatic-manifestations-are-fake.html, 31/10/2013. (Accessed 06/11/2013.)
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Since the C3 Presence Conference 2013 is on this week, we thought it might be wise that Christians discern what is being said in the name of God to the Word of God.
If C3 Presence Conference is anything like the last few years, you will not be getting anything that resembles biblical Christianity. For this reason, we would like to provide our listeners with this fantastic resource so you can see through the lies of Phil Pringle, Chris Pringle, Steven Furtick and the notorious Kong Hee.
Part 2 can be heard here:
APRIL 10, 2013
• How to Not Be Deceived, Bamboozled or Snookered by Religious Hucksters, Snake Oil Con Men or Your Own Idolatrous Notions – Session 2b
To download a PDF of the PowerPoint slides for this lecture Click Here
Source: Fighting For The Faith, http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2013/04/how-to-not-be-deceived-bamboozled-or-snookered-session-2b.html. (Acceesed 22/04/2013.)
Part 3 can be heard here:
APRIL 24, 2013
• How to Not Be Deceived, Bamboozled or Snookered by Religious Hucksters, Snake Oil Con Men or Your Own Idolatrous Notions – Session 3
To download a PDF of the PowerPoint slides for this lecture Click Here
Source: Fighting For The Faith, http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2013/04/how-to-not-be-deceived-bamboozled-or-snookered-session-3.html. (Acceesed 25/04/2013.)
If you are planning to attend the C3 Presence Conference, hold on to your bible, your mind and your wallet at all cost.
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Quick recap, Chris Rosebrough from Fighting For The Faith, thoroughly examined the behaviour of Steven Furtick and his church at the Code Orange Revival, (which Phil Pringle endorsed). At this man-made revival event, Perry Noble preached that Steven Furtick WAS a Messiah. The only guest invited to speak that preached the gospel was Matt Chandler who also gave a profound message that insisted the “bible was not you”. The result of this sermon was an angry Furtick who went out of his way to censor the gospel and Matt Chandler’s biblical message. As a result of the despicable nature of Furtick’s handling of events was this conclusion by Chris Rosebrough :
“Based on the performance I have that I’ve seen… I think it is safe to say that Steven Furtick is a cult leader. I know that might come as a shock to some of you but I mean, based on what his followers have been saying to me privately and pubicly on twitter as well as in email and other stuff like that- I mean this guy is a cult leader. He is the visionary. He’s the man of God. He’s the new Messiah. But he’s not.” – Chris Rosebrough, The Antidote to Antichrist’s Anti-Truth: 08:30,http://0352182.netsolhost.com/F4F012012.mp3, 20/01/2012.
Read what we’ve covered in these articles here:
Phil Pringle however has invited the “Word of God” to come back down to preach at his Presence Conference.
Shockingly, more news has come out about the dangerous nature of Furtick’s Elevation ‘church’. While we do not agree with various things about ‘FBC Jax Watchdogs’, the information they spill is worth reporting. We wish to thank FBC Jax Watchdogs for this startling information about Steve Furtick. (Download the pdf of the volunteer contract form HERE before reading.)
Let’s hope that Phil Pringle does not copy this idea from Steven Furtick.
Nothing is more likely to destroy a species or a nation than a determination to survive at all costs. — C.S. Lewis
Contrary to popular blogger belief, TWW does not need to “go looking” for controversy. We have been around for 4 years and have developed a reputation that we give a hoot about people who have been hurt, let down, and abused by churches. The church leaders have their fan clubs of admiring wannabe pastors and church leaders. They pay the dough to sit in their presence at the interminable conferences held in nice places all over the world.
Who is the fan club for those hurt by these churches and leaders? Well, TWW is one. Julie Anne Smith at Spiritual Sounding Board and Kris at SGM Survivors are others. All of us raise red flags to help people know about church settings that are optimized for potential abuse.
This past week we got an email from an individual who referred to a contract that volunteers, as well as church employees, must sign at Elevation Church.
“I also grabbed it as well if it disappears. The whole thing is unconscionable in fact, if not actually in law. I plan on showing this to a few of my lawyer buddies online to see what they think.”
This individual went onto to call this document a pile of codswallop (or something similar).Frankly, I agree. TWW has written a number of posts outlining the potential pitfalls of signing membership covenants. Here are a few.
- Membership Covenant Red Flags
- Spiritual Abuse Final Exam – Analyze a Membership Covenant
- Another Mars Hill “Testimony: One More Reason to Beware of Covenants
- Mark Dever / 9 Marks Edict – You Cannot Resign W/O Permission
- Peacemaker or Kingmaker? Beware of “Covenants”
The legal issue is key
When signing one of these “covenants,” potential church members should understand that they are signing a legal document. We are warning you: these documents have been vetted by church attorneys.
The pastors go all “nicey, nicey” on the likely member, explaining that this is simply a “biblical” way to demonstrate that one is committing oneself to praying for, and supporting, the local body of Christ. Then everyone joins hands and sings “Kumbaya” while reveling in the loving unity of the local body. That is, until an unsuspecting person asks the wrong question and finds themselves on the receiving end of some “loving” church discipline with little recourse. Said person can run but the church can legally report them to the next church (and they do). Please refer to this post on TWW on how to legally extricate yourself from an abusive church.
If you insist on signing a church contract, consult your own attorney.
These covenants were invented by lawyers to protect the church leadership, as well as the church assets, from liability. These are not meant to protect you. (Repeat 10x).What makes this practice particularly despicable is that prospective members are rarely advised that they are signing a legal document or that they should consider getting legal advice prior to signing it.
We have often said that smart people should not sign these documents without first consulting with their own (not the church’s) attorney. Better yet, they should ask themselves why they would join a church that would not tell them that they are signing a legal document.
Is paranoia a biblical value at Steven Furtick’s Elevation Church?
Deb and I wanted to visit Elevation Church and listen to Furtick speak in person. We called the church office to ask when and where he would be preaching because there are multiple campuses. But, they have a funny little rule. They won’t tell you. It is against the rules. No matter which way I asked the question, the administrative person refused to answer me. Is this paranoia? Sure seems like it.
The infamous volunteer/employee contract is gaining fame.
The following document has been making its way around Charlotte, NC and has been picked up by Stuff Christian Culture Likes on Facebook link. It is a confidentiality agreement that must be signed by employees and anyone who wishes to “volunteer” at Steven Furtick’s Elevation Church in Charlotte link. Some smart folks, knowing that such a document might tend to “disappear” (imagine that!) made sure to post it on Dropbox here. (It takes a few seconds to load).
For those of you who have not had the opportunity to meet, or hear about, mega-pastor Furtick, we have embedded a well-known video called “Hey, Haters” at the end of the post. He is good buddies with Ed Young Jr link and Perry “oppose us and oppose God” Noble link which probably says it all. So, this man who says he is into peace and love and wants to restore a “hope of a nation,” has created a document to “insure” you stay “unified.”
Here is most of the document. You can view the whole thing at the above link. I have highlighted a few things. I also introduce each section.
It’s all about gossip and slander but these terms are not defined. Note the legalese.
THIS CONFIDENTIALITY AGREEMENT (“Agreement”) dated __________________, is by and between Elevation Church (“Church”) and
________________________________________ (referred to as “I” or “me” below).
WHEREAS, the Church and I agree that the Bible was inspired by God and written by man without error and is completely relevant to our daily life;
WHEREAS, the Scriptures forbid the spreading of gossip, slander and the betraying of confidences (Exodus 23:1; Leviticus 19:16; Proverbs 6:19, 11:13, 16:28, 20:19; Romans 1:30; 1 Corinthians 6:10; 2 Corinthians 12:20 and Titus 2:3);
WHEREAS, as an inducement to the Church to allow me to volunteer, or to hire me or continue to employ me, or to provide me access to its confidential information, or to provide me compensation and/or benefits, as the case may be, I have agreed to execute this Agreement and be bound by its terms and covenants.
NOW, THEREFORE, in consideration of the above premises, I agree to be bound by the terms, conditions and covenants set forth herein:
They say you must disclose things if required to do so by the law but you must alert them immediately if you do so. Oh yeah, and be careful not to say too much.
1.1 Duty to Maintain Confidentiality.
I promise and agree that, except to the extent the use or disclosure of any Confidential Information (as defined below) is required to carry out my assigned duties with the Church, during my employment or
volunteering with the Church and thereafter: (a) I will keep strictly confidential and not disclose to any person not employed by the Church any Confidential Information, and (b) I will not use for myself or for any other person or entity any Confidential Information.
However, this provision shall not preclude me: (i) from the use or disclosure of information known generally to the public, other than as a result of my violation of this Section; or (ii) from any disclosure required by law or court order, so long as I provide the Church immediate written notice of any potential disclosure pursuant to this subsection and take all reasonable and lawful steps to limit the extent of such disclosure.
Of course, it is wrong to share prayer requests as you will note in (i). However, look at what else one must keep secret.
The term “Confidential Information” means all non-public information furnished to, obtained by, or
created by me within the course and scope of my work (volunteer or otherwise) with the Church. Confidential Information includes,but is not limited to, such information relating to: (i) Church participants, including lists, contact information, prayer requests personal information; (ii) the Church’s finances, including personal financial/salary information related to the Church’s financial statements, balance sheets, offerings information, cash flow, forecasts and cost analyses; (iii) the Church’s plans and projections for opportunities for new or developing ideas; and/or (iv) the Church’s research and development activities and technical data.
Then, one must agree that this is all very reasonable.
2. REASONABLENESS OF RESTRICTIONS
I recognize that the terms of this Agreement are necessary to protect the Church’s confidential information and the sensitivity of such information. I also agree that its terms are fair and reasonable. Thus, I agree not to contest the general validity or enforceability of this Agreement. The covenants in this Agreement shall survive the termination or end of my employment or volunteering with the Church as set forth above, regardless of the date, reason or manner of my separation. I acknowledge that this Agreement is supported by good and valuable consideration.
And, if you happen to mention that the church is thinking about offering Zumba in the sanctuary on Mondays, you can get your pants sued off you.
3. GENERAL PROVISIONS
3.1 Remedies Available to the Church for My Breach.
I acknowledge that my breach of any of the restrictive covenants in this Agreement will result in irreparable damage to the Church. Therefore, in the event of any breach or threatened breach by me, I agree that the Church shall be entitled to an injunction from a court of competent jurisdiction enjoining me from committing any violation
or threatened violation of this Agreement. I further agree that the Church shall not be required to post a bond to obtain such an injunction. All remedies available to the Church by reason of a breach by me of this Agreement are cumulative, none is exclusive, and all remedies may be exercised concurrently or consecutively at the Church’s option.
- Do not tell what the pastor makes. That Ed Young Jr thing was really yucky link. Poor Ed…
- Do not tell how much was in the plate on Sunday. People might wonder where the money goes.
- Do not share any cool idea that Furtick has. Someone else might copy it and that is not fair. Why help another Christian church. Furtick wants it all.
If you do any of the above, you can be sued. Well, I gotta hand it to him. At least he doesn’t play games with Matthew 18. He’ll just sue your sorry bottom.
Do you really want to volunteer for a church that threatens you from the get go? Is this truly a place of love and unity? Ask yourself why Furtick wouldn’t want to share any neat ideas he has with everyone else? Or is he hiding his bundle under a bushel?
You are the light of the world. A town built on a hill cannot be hidden. Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. In the same way, let your light shine before others,that they may see your good deeds and glorify your Father in heaven.
Steven Furtick at his finest. Hey Hater!
Source: Dee, Elevation Church and Steven Furtick: Volunteer to Be Sued!, http://thewartburgwatch.com/2013/04/04/elevation-church-and-steven-furtick-volunteer-to-be-sued/, 04/04/2013. (Accessed 08/04/2013.)
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WHEN A PROPHECY FAILS…
In Part 3, we recorded Pringle saying,
“Immediately afterwards when that happens, when Warragamba Dam does spill over, that’s the time that the Lord will bring a fresh new move of the Holy Spirit all around Australia. And we’ll see a move of God like we have not seen before”. (Emphasis mine)
In Part 1, we encourage you to watch Pringle prophesy at the C3 Church at Oxford Falls, how revival was going to hit the building. In Part 4 we analysed the prophecy itself. In this final article, we will be looking to see if the prophecy was fulfilled at C3 Church Oxford Falls.
In looking at the above quote, when Warragamba Dam was reported full, was revival immediate? On the 4th of March 2012, Pringle preached a message titled Heartbeat – Servanthood. Their uploaded video showed us… There was no revival at the C3 Service. There is a LOT of seats behind Pringle.
In that night time service on the 4th of March 2012, Mark Kelsey preached a message titled Heartbeat – Servanthood. C3’s uploaded video showed us… There was no revival. Drat!
The following Sunday morning (11/03/2012), Pringle preached a sermon titled the The Engine Room. Was their a revival? Were there queues outside wanting to come into the house of God?
What about that night service on the same day (11/03/2012)? Pringle preached a similar sermon with the same name: The Engine Room.
For Philip Day’s Saturday night session ‘Let there be light‘ (17/04/2012), it looked as though C3 disabled the camera that gave us the shots we needed to see the audience. But the next day on the 18th, while Peter Paauwe preached Breakthrough Part1, we saw… No revival. Empty seats lay scattered around the room. (Note them in the foreground and at the back of the room.)
By now, this prophecy is already looking ridiculous. But just in case someone justifies from C3, “God’s ways are not our ways’, we must continue. Maybe, God was going to move that night? Nope.
By this stage you may be thinking this is tedious. But we have to do this. Either God is going to bring a national revival through C3 or Phil Pringle is a false prophet. The following week on the Sunday morning, 25th of March, Pringle preached a sermon titled ‘The Engine Room: Connect’.
C3 didn’t upload a sermon that night. But we figured if their was a revival in that meeting, they would have definitely filmed it to prove to every other church that their church was the one with God’s blessing. The following week on Sunday morning 1st of April 2012, the joke was on C3 as Pringle preached ‘The Engine Room: Revive’. There was still NO revival.
That night while Pringle preached another sermon, seats were still empty (see them in the background).
A month has passed and Presence Conference is about to hit C3… Was God going to show up at C3 Church so Presence could experience revival? It seems logical that if God was going to move, it would be before the before Presence Conference. Why? So the international audience can bring back ‘God’ to their country God.
This would fulfill the prophecy of Pringle because God told him when the Warragamba Dam floods, it wasn’t just C3 church and all of Australia that were to experience revival. It was going to be a global revival. So when John Bevere spoke on Resurrection Sunday morning… was… there… revival? (Look at all the empty seats behind Pringle.)
That is a LOT of people short of a revival. Cross your fingers for Pringle, tonight God must show up or else…
So there is no prophecy fufillment. None.
… A PROPHECY FAILS…
But maybe God DID move after Presence Conference? If you’ve seen footage from the Presence Conference scattered around C3 Church Watch, you know revival did not turn up. If revival broke out at C3 Presence Conference in Darling Harbour – then God would contradict himself in the prophecy as mentioned in Part 4.
So was there going to be revival AFTER the Presence Conference? Steven Furtick preached that Sunday morning (15/04/2012), a message titled ‘Stay Behind The Guide’. You can see empty seats straight at the back of the auditorium.
Nope. What about the night service?
Did revival happen next Sunday morning (22/04/2012), while Pringle preached his sermon Connect? That’s also a lot of empty seats behind Pringle again.
Did revival come when Andrew Kubala preached ‘The power of a seed‘?
No. While the room is dark and smokey, if you look to the seat at back of the room, they are empty. More seats remained empty the following Sunday in Mark Kelsey’s sermon on the 29th of April. There was no revival.
The night service that Sunday wasn’t full either.
Pringle’s Inception movie sermon the following week on the 6th of May 2012, did not experience revival.
In Pringle’s continuation on Inception that night… there was no revival to be seen.
On mothers day on the 13th of May 2012, there was no revival while Pringle spoke on ‘A Mothers Worth‘.
Even that night, there was no revival.
When Mark Kelsey got up the following week to speak Sunday morning on the 20/05/2012, there was no revival.
However, he had this to say to the congregation in the giving message. Was he saying this because people were feeling cheated from Pringle’s false prophecy?
“I don’t know about you but I get frustrated sometimes. We have got one of the greatest churches in the world, one of the greatest worship teams. We’ve definitely got the greatest pastor in the world. We’ve got the greatest pastoral team. The greatest connect leaders, what have you. We’ve been given Christ. We have the bible. We have the New Testament. We have the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. And yet people sit there and go, “Yeah well. It’s not quite enough is it? You know we gotta…”.” – Mark Kelsey, Justin Richards, 35:47-36:19, http://www2.myc3church.net/videos/justin-richards, Night Service, 20/05/2012. (Accessed 11/06/2012.)
Of course it’s not enough Mark Kelsey. Didn’t you hear what the “greatest pastor in the world” prophesied? Didn’t you hear yourself say “I get frustrated sometimes”? Why is Mark Kelsey chastising the sheep in his congregation when it is his prophet that prophesied falsely that revival was going to come?
In spite of this, Justin Richards spoke that night. No revival.
The following week (27th of May 2012), a speaker by the name of Jamie Haith, spoke at C3’s morning service… Where revival was still a no-show.
Jamie Haith spoke that night where revival still refused to turn up.
Then on the 3rd of June, Pringle gave his morning money fleecing sermon, where revival still remained absent. Ironic that Josh Kelsey made the claim of Phil Pringle “We have the best leader in the world” (23:25), when this was the video camera shot that followed:
In the continuation of Pringle’s groom-a-thon that night, the storm of revival did not turn up.
C3 said the dam overflowed on the 3rd of March. We have recorded the ‘spiritual’ status of each Sunday service to the 3rd of June. This is a three month period.
It is safe to say that:
God DID NOT say, ““Immediately afterwards when that happens, when Warragamba Dam does spill over, that’s the time that the Lord will bring a fresh new move of the Holy Spirit all around Australia”
God DID NOT say, “Watch me. That thing is going to overflow. And as it overflows, a revival is going to come through the nation.”
God DID NOT say, “the power of God is gonna touch this city with revival”.
God DID NOT say, “the Spirit of God is gonna fall on this nation”.
God DID NOT say, “the power of God is gonna pour down out of heaven”.
God DID NOT say, “If you will build my house, if you will commit yourselves and not give yourselves comfort but will build the house, I will fill this place with my glory”.
God DID NOT say, “these [c3 church] seats will be full!”
God DID NOT say, “Every service you come, you will queue in line to be in the house of God”.
This prophecy is a lie. A scam. We have thoroughly examined in all five articles that Phil Pringle prophesied falsely. There is no escape room for Pringle.
Not only did he mislead his entire church, he mislead thousands of Christians around Sydney. Not only did he also mislead thousands of Christians around Sydney but also across Australia. Not only did he deceive thousands of Christians across Australia, he also mislead thousands of Christians across the world who attended his Presence Conference 2012 and watched him falsely prophesy online.
To recap all that we’ve explored in this series of articles, in:
Part 1 – we looked at how C3 purposely distorted information at their Sydney Presence Conference, taking snippets and screen grabs fromNews Articles and blogs to portray the world as wrong and Phil Pringle as some Godly prophet.
Part 2 – we looked at how C3 and Pringle mislead people to believe that God used Pringle against media and ‘false prophets’ to prophesy that the Warragamba Dam would be full again. We examined how C3 and Pringle used this prophecy twice to advertise and elevate their movement to Christians and churches locally and globally. We explored that it was highly likely that Pringle prophesied out of reaction against those he dislikes and pride.
Part 3 – we looked at Pringle’s further insight to his Warragamba Dam prophecy to help us understand the actual prophecy itself and what he thought this meant. He informed us that C3 met the conditions God said through him so C3 can experience revival.
Part 4 – we analysed the Warragamba Dam prophecy and proved it to be false.
Part 5 – we examined every service for three months to see if revival would break out “immediately”. This was from the time Warragamba Dam overflowed (03/03/2012) to June (03/06/2012). We have proven that the prophecy has not come to pass with it’s promise of a revival.
The right thing for Pringle to do is to humble himself, apologize and step down, admitting he has done Christianity a massive disservice. How many Christians will have their faith shaken or shipwrecked because C3 convinced them to put their faith and hope in the words of a false prophecy?
We would like to know if any information in our articles is wrong. If you find any information that is misleading in our investigation of Phil Pringle’s false Warragambe Dam prophecy, please Contact us at email@example.com.
c3, c3 church, c3 church of, c3 church oxford falls, C3 Church Sydney, c3 church sydney oxford falls, c3 international, C3 Presence Conference, C3 Presence Conference 2012, c3global, C3i, C3OF, ccc, ccc church, ccc church of, ccc oxford falls, ccc sydney, cccof, Chris Rosebrough, christian pirate radio, critique, fleece, Furtick, money, Phil Pringle, Presence, Presence 2012, Presence Conference, Presence Conference 2012, Pringle, pulpit pimping, Steven Furtick, sydney presence conference, sydney presence conference 2012, thoughts from my reformed self, thoughtsfrommyreformedself, winnie the pooh
Here is a critical review of Steven Furtick’s sermon on the last night of Presence Conference 2012. From: http://thoughtsfrommyreformedself.com/2012/04/16/presence-conference-2012-steven-furtick-joins-the-heresy-fest-led-by-phil-pringle/
For a friend in Sydney (a city in which I had no friends until Facebook changed all that), I am venturing into uncharted territory on this blog. C3ChurchWatch is covering the C3 Presence Conference in Sydney Australia. C3 Church is led by Phil Pringle but has a global presence. So check out my friend’s web site. Chances are, there’s an extension of the “movement” near you. (See this map for all the churches connected to C3 in Australia: http://www.c3churchglobal.com/churCch)
The conference has thankfully wrapped up for this year, though as you can see at the beginning of this video, they’re already heavily recruiting for next year’s conference. Steven Furtick was the headliner for Friday the 13th, 2012. I have heard enough of both Pastor Pringle and Pastor Furtick in the past to know that Friday the 13th is an appropriate date for pairing these two. Goodie, goodie… Can’t wait! Here we go:
0:30 Opens with a plug for the hundreds you can spend on the C3 schlock in the “Resource Center”.
0:35 Montage full of sappy music and all the “best lines” from the conference. These guys are like Woody from Toy Story where the same 10 lines come out over and over again if you just pull the string. Montage includes Phil Pringle working the crowd into frenzy so that they can feel some sort of glory cloud, or whatever, descend on them to make them sway and close their eyes and…. Ew! What is that?!
1:27 … Pulling out all the stops I see. Emaciated “Jesus” hanging on cross, live on stage in apparent agony.
3:20 Montage over. Phil Pringle on stage.
3:40 Phil and Laura (Not sure who Laura is in all this) say they’re not tired at all and ready to go for another week. I’m sure they’re just kidding Jake. Don’t have a heart attack. Doing some giveaways now to “delegates”? What are “delegates”? I don’t speak C3 I guess.
4:30 Ovation for the delegates/volunteers. Got it. Apparently part of their volunteer duties was to serve coffee and give hand massages and baklava to attendees in the TLC lounge. Teaching them about taking up the cross I guess… not!
5:28 Laura just announced 1000 already registered for next year. Rather than saying, “Cool, way to go!” Phil Pringle said, “That’s great! Let’s make it 3000 by the end of the night. What do you say?” Reminds me of my days in sales at Dell. They announce deadline for early registration end of May. Price doubles after then. And Phil is showing his great faith by announcing he is booking a bigger place.
7:23 Here is the carrot they used to get people to register today: attendees got their name in a drawing for the prizes. This first giveaway is four nights in a five-star hotel. $300 in spending money vouchers and VIP seats at next year’s conference. Yep, that’s the way to deny the flesh which wars against our spirit.
9:40 Steven Furtick takes the stage.
10:15 Immediately starts praising all the audience for their many worthy qualities. Scratch, scratch, scratch.
For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions. (1 Timothy 4:3)
10:53 Gets big “Awww” from audience for confessing he missed his daughter’s first steps to be there. Should’ve stayed home, Steven. That’s time better spent.
11:33 Double-entendre. Just had to point out everything he misses being away from home and away from his wife.
12:06 Cues the audience to applaud their Pastor Phil, and his wife, Chris… the… co-… pastor…?
12:31 ”I’ve been thinking, what do I say about ______, [since] it’s the last session of the conference.” That blank ought to be filled with Jesus or God, right? No, he was meditating on what he should say about Pastor Phil. I’m curious how long before I time stamp a new subject before he stops talking about him. He’s got to pay it forward since Steven himself was honored so well by the speakers at his own Code Orange [scheduled] Revival.
13:28 Just getting started honoring Phil with a pithy saying. “God is not the God of either/or; He’s the God of both/and.” Chapter? Verse? Where is that in Scripture?
14:10 Summary so far: Pastor Phil and Chris, both “fun and focused”. I don’t recall that in Paul’s list of qualifications for overseers.
14:15 ”Spirit-led and smart”. A rare quality indeed. Got anything about Jesus? God? Bible? Almost 15 minutes in here.
15:00 Still sucking up to Phil. Now he’s “brilliant”, but not in the underwhelming Aussie sense. Makes joke about the Australian overuse of “brilliant”. Phil has to keep this in mind later as you’ll see at the end.
15:50 Says “Let’s get to it” and grabs Bible. Any bets on how long it takes to read from it?
16:15 Says he prayed for God to “lead him to the message” simultaneously with putting Bible back down. Ironic…
16:40 Moves away from Bible to little book of notes to announce title of message: “The Most Encouraging Message You’ve Never Heard.”
17:08 Segues back somehow to flattering Phil as well Bishop Dale Bronner (Word/Faith heretic), whom I predict he is about to quote.
17:30 ”Opening to Matthew 11:1-11″ he says… He’s reaching for the Bible and….
17:40 Fail. Now telling the audience “The Lord wants to give someone the courage to act.” That’s definitely not in Matthew 11.
17:50 Instructing on how to tell you’ve caught a vision. Is there a fever involved?
18:00 Vision – Action = Daydream. Got it. Now Matthew 11?
18:18 Reading Matthew 11 about John the Baptist in prison, asking “Are you the One?” Doesn’t even blink before making the passage about everyone there in Sydney and their “disappointed expectations.”
20:00 Got to give Pastor Furtick props. He catches that Jesus had announced earlier in Matthew that he was to fulfill the prophecy that he would “set prisoners free” and that John may have been tempted to doubt since that wasn’t happening for him. Not many people bring that up.
20:30 He thought Shawshank Redemption was a warm and endearing picture of prison?! Has he seen the movie?
21:00 Stand-up Comic Interlude (From here forward to be cited as SUCI): “Some of you are sitting next to your disappointed expectation.” Already had one regarding the use of “brilliant” in Australia and regarding missing his wife. So the SUCI count is up to three.
21:38 Talking about Steven’s life now.
22:15 SUCI #4, but sort of fell flat. Win some, lose some.
22:45 SUCI #5
23:00 Segue from Steven’s life to everyone else in audience now. Apparently we’ve all asked the question, “Is this it?” And you always need someone to encourage you.
23:45 First instance of “Turn to someone and say…”
23:50 Rest of passage he ends with “no one greater than John the Baptist” (and mumbles quickly yethteonewhoisleastinthekingdomofheavenisgreaterhthanhe…). Pastor Furtick says Jesus was giving John affirmation and encouragement. Strange. Neither John nor his disciples were even there to hear that. Talk about squishing a passage into a mold to fit your message.
25:50 Clears up that John’s disciples nor John were there. Where’s he going with this?
26:16 Seriously?? “It’s quite possible that Jesus has been talking about you… behind your back.” And may I say that’s some mighty wild speculation you’ve got going on there. Chapter? Verse? Scratch, scratch those itching ears.
26:55 ”Now why would he do that?” So now we’re going to speculate in order to find the possible reason for the fact you already arrived at by speculation. Brilliant. (See what a flexible word that is?)
28:00 ”Here’s my theory.” Okay, that’s not what you’re supposed to preach. [next breath] “1 Corinthians 2:5 says our faith shouldn’t rest in men’s wisdom but in God’s power… Maybe Jesus wanted John’s faith not to rest on how good John was doing, but in how good Jesus was.” Well, yes, that’s certainly true. Why did you say “maybe”? And what does this have to do with God talking behind our backs, and doesn’t obsessing about whether he is or not defeat Pastor Furtick’s own point he’s trying to make now about getting our eyes off of ourselves?
28:28 So much for the brief turn in the right direction. He shifts back… to talking about Steven Furtick. “There have been times in my life…”
29:00 ”God takes away affirmation to take us to a place of deeper affirmation in the Spirit.” Pastor Furtick, how in the world are you extracting this from John 11? Audience loves it though. Scratch, scratch, scratch.
29:50 ”Even though we don’t get to hear everything that Jesus said about John [because] this is a summary.” Where does it say this is a summary? “He says many more things about John. There’s a further discourse in Matthew 11.” (And of course he will not read it. Can’t blame Steven. I don’t think I’ve heard any two people interpret that passage that follows in the same manner. It’s a difficult passage and I don’t blame him for not wanting to tackle it, but a good pastor at least attempts it. Not worth a federal case though.)
30:00 Steven is going to share three affirmative statements that he believes God might be saying behind your back. How in the world does it help me to speculate on what God might be saying behind my back? Wouldn’t it be wise to focus on what we know he already said to me in his Word?!
30:24 ”I felt like the Lord put on my heart to tell somebody today.” Oh now, it’s the Holy Ghost answering machine. God is having trouble getting through to people so he has enlisted the help of Steven Furtick.
30:38 Yikes: “Hear the Word of the Lord; God wanted me to tell somebody…” That’s a bold statement
30:44 Affirmation #1: “You’re doing better than you think you are.” (Please note in link to Pooh bear quote below that I personally think two of these three points are inspired more by Pooh than the Bible.) In Romans 12:3, am I not exhorted not to think of myself more highly than I ought but instead with sober judgment? 2 Corinthians 4:4 says that the god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers. Are you saying that our blindness is concerning not being able to see how good we are? But I guess I’d better make a way to get this to jibe with the rest of my Bible, because we’re adding a new book. Steven said this is the “Word of the Lord”.
31:35 SUCI #6
31:50 ”But then you’ve got to tap into that place, when Jesus says to John…” So when I am feeling poorly about my own performance, I need to tap into what Jesus said about John? Wow, this is twisted logic. He’s saying that Jesus had a good reason for not saying these things to John’s face, but is encouraging us to imagine Jesus is saying them about us? So what he’s arguing would have produced inordinate pride in John, we’re somehow going to handle better? And how do you know that those to whom you speak are “doing better than they think”? What if I’m a complete screw up? What if I’m a heretic? What if I’m a serial killer? You have thousands, probably millions, watching this conference. Odds are that you are proclaiming this to some sociopaths of the highest order!
32:30 Long general string of general affirmations proclaiming how very wonderful everyone is in the room. Everyone’s now applauding. Scratch, scratch, scratch. And apparently, if you say it loud enough, it really makes it true.
33:00 Back to Steven’s life. “Pastor Mickey” did better than he thinks because he poured into Stephen when Steven was young and now Mickey is flying all over the world vicariously through Steven Furtick. I don’t know if Pastor Mickey’s going to be bragging about that one on Judgment Day.
34:05 Called the audience a crowd of “world-changers”. Scratch, scratch, scratch.
33:22 SUCI #7 about teenagers being demon-possessed. I have a 14-year-old son and admit that’s actually kind of funny.
33:55 ”Find somebody and touch them and tell them, ‘You’re doing better than you think you are.’” There. My beagle is sleeping at my feet. I just told her. She’s duly affirmed and looks truly peaceful. But that’s actually is what she always looks like. Oh well. Don’t try this on a human, folks. You’ll do more damage than you think you will.
35:00 Getting loud and telling them to “clap by faith”. Really?
35:38 ”I get to preach a lot of places. You’re special!” Really, guys, tell me you’re not going to fall for that, are you? Now moving on to tell Phil Pringle how awesome his church is.
36:30 ”Please receive that from my heart.” He’s speaking of the encouragement, “You’re doing better than you think you are.” So is that from God or from your heart? Which is it? Then quotes but does not give reference. “It’s God’s kindness that leads you to repentance.” Tell us about that kindness please. Why is God so kind? How do we know it? Hint, you find it all in the Bible and it has nothing to do with self-affirmation but is seen on the cross, which actually only affirms our lost state and our need to be saved from our sins.
36:50 Affirmation #2: “You matter more than you think you do.” Scratch, scratch, scratch.
37:00 ”John felt completely discarded. I’m using a little bit of my imagination.” At least you admit it. But is that what you’re called to do as a pastor, to preach your imagination? Immediately also says, “Maybe, I’m reading a little too much into the text.” Yeeeeees. “That’s somebody in here [in the audience].” Bingo. You’ve just arrived at where you’re reading too much into the text.
37:25 Now talking about Steven’s childhood. Trading card story.
39:00 ”It took someone who knew the value to retrieve something that I’d given away too easily. Some of you are giving up on yourself too easily.” My response is only found a few verses before where he started tonight:
“And whoever does not take his cross and follow me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.” (Matthew 10:38, 39)
39:20 Now talking about our need to go into the “enemy’s camp to retrieve what you gave away too easily”. Wow, this is dangerous ground. Doesn’t this sound a lot like what Jesus did for us already? Where is he getting this from this passage?!
39:28 Assertion after assertion: “You can tell the value of something by the price that was paid for it.” Doesn’t that contradict the story he just told about the baseball cards. Steven didn’t pay much for them, thus disguising the value. And in our case, we are given value by the price paid for us on the Cross, but it doesn’t prove that we were valuable in the first place.
39:38 Steven just said Jesus’ blood was shed for us to prove our worth. /sigh/ Chapter? Verse? Got anything about our sin and the need for atonement?
39:45 ”You have infinite potential, in Jesus name!” Why does everyone keep tagging that onto the end of assertions as if it makes it better? It only makes it more blasphemous.
40:00 Launching into Code Orange testimonial of some sort; a horrible, sad story about boy who died in car accident while his parents were at revival. Ugh, It’s sounds like he turned that poor boy’s funeral into a Steven Furtick pep rally. He even made someone else’s funeral about him. Ick.
41:17 ”Do you want to know what I texted?” Actually, no. Can you tell us about the text in that beautiful leather-bound tome sitting useless on the podium there?
41:30 Story about God talking to him again. Put the bulletin from the funeral into the rocks in the valley where Joshua told the sun to stand still. Interesting. Take it from someone who knows. Pastor Furtick is carrying a whole lot of guilt over the fact that his parents were at his revival and not with their boy when he was killed in a car wreck. He’s acting like someone desperately trying to make some restitution. I know what it’s like to carry misplaced guilt over the death of a child and this man has it in spades. Pray for Pastor Furtick. I keep seeing signs of his heart softening in this sermon. I can’t put my finger on it, but…. something is just a bit different.
42:00 Oh dear, he is apparently trying to convince the parents that their son’s death “counted for something” and did make a difference, because people are starting Bible studies and such because of him. I have some personal experience with families who have lost children and this approach is usually not taken well. I could be wrong, but I’m pretty sure they don’t want to think God took their son to accomplish some purpose of his. But even if they did, it’s still probably not what they want to hear right after he dies. I understand what he’s trying to do, but I think it could be misguided.
And on a different note, he’s trying to comfort the audience with: “you matter so much more than you think you do.” (Throwing this in for free, but I found that I found a lot of peace when I learned that I matter less than I thought I did. It’s a comfort to know that God is big enough to keep me from screwing everything up. Just sayin’.)
43:00 ”I’m not leaving you [John] in that prison because I’ve forsaken you. I’m leaving you in that prison because you’re so strong; you’re so mighty!” May I point out the obvious here? Jesus left John in that prison because his purpose was not to free people in physical prisons but to free us from our Sin. He did not come to conquer the romans or Herod. He came to conquer death.
43:11 Again, he’s turning it around again to apply it to everyone listening to say that they are exactly like John the Baptist.
43:40 Affirmation (but not really) #3: “It’s less about you than you think it is.” Hmmmmmmm… Is he trying to get the Matt Chandler monkey off his back now? Trying to prove he doesn’t think the Bible is about himself?
Wow, now he’s saying he had to throw that third point in there or you’ll “take this message the wrong way” and is taking the time to mock his first two points. This is one weird schizoid sermon!
44:12 ”He must become greater; I must become less…” Yes… Yes…
44:20 ”Want you to leave this conference on affirmation overload, but we want it to be the right kind of affirmation, otherwise it will backfire.” Like giving ammunition to your critics?
44:45 Now quoting Hebrews 12: “Consider Jesus, who endured such hostility from sinners.” Encouraging the audience to step back and see there’s a bigger picture than your immediate surroundings.
45:00 ”I’ll bet John got his affirmation when he saw him face to face,” says Pastor Furtick. You don’t have to speculate there, Steven. We know that the righteous will be told “Well done, my good and faithful servant.” (Matthew 25:21)
45:14 ”The Lord wanted me to tell you…” Again with the Holy Spirit answering machine! The Lord has already told you to proclaim his Word! You’re not doing that, so it’s hard for me to believe that he’s taking the time to speak to you personally when you’re ignoring what he’s already clearly commanded you: “Preach the Word, in season and out.” (2 Timothy 4:2)
45:40 ”Your dream is rotting in prison.” /gasp!/ Not that!
46:00 ”God can do anything in your life.”
46:07 Obligatory sports analogy. Oh my goodness. Is he going to make Jesus, our advocate, the referee challenging the ruling on the field? That’s a terrible analogy.
47:25 ”This is going to be a turning point in someone’s life right now.” Maybe so, but for the better?
47:53 ”Sometimes the official says” (after coaching audience that they need to get ready to get real loud and emotional soon “we’re going to take it through the roof in a second”.) [dramatically] “Upon… further… review… [cue sappy music] the ruling on the field is overturned.” Our situation is only hopeless because we’re looking at it from the wrong angle. Really?! That is NOT the solution for our lost condition proposed by the Bible. The truth is, we are to agree with God that it is hopeless and cry for mercy! Wow…
49:16 ”I believe the divine verdict for somebody tonight is, ‘Upon… further… review’” [music and audience getting louder and louder, and so is Pastor Furtick of course.]
49:30 Whipping up crowd. Band getting louder. Girl in band jumping up and down with arms up in the air, reminding me of high school pep rallies.
49:57 ”In His Presence, anything is possible!” Chapter? Verse? Crowd now “shouting to God with a voice of triumph.” What are they triumphing over and based on what?
50:11 Starts praying, sort of. Thanking him for all the encouragement he’s brought through the message tonight. His eyes are going in the exact same places they were when he was addressing the crowd. Who is he really talking to? Now asserting what God’s voice is telling them right now, and not quoting from God’s Word…
50:40 Wants to pray for specific people. “If you know God is speaking this message specifically to you… shoot your hand in the air and let me pray for you.” What do you want to bet these are going to get carefully counted as people making decisions for Jesus to boost those stats? And upon what are they basing their belief that God is speaking this message to them? Their gut feeling?
51:05 Making “positive confession” over the people with hands raised via recap of three points of message.
51:29 No, here’s the stats they’ll count. He told them to put their hands down and now he wants to pray for those who need a “brand new start with Jesus Christ.” I’ve heard this “gospel presentation” from Pastor Furtick before. The false gospel of the “God of the fresh start, of the second chance.”
52:00 ”Allow me the privilege me pray with you to begin a relationship with Jesus Christ. This is the gospel: that He lived the life you couldn’t live; He was sinless. He died the death you should have died.” (Wow, is he going to totally land on his feet here?) “They crucified him. The greatest agony he suffered on the cross; it was not the scourging; it was not the whip. All of that was terrible. It was the separation from his heavenly Father that he had to experience when he said, as we heard this week, ‘My God, My God, Why have you forsaken me?’ When he prayed that, he was also making an announcement that because he was forsaken for you, you don’t have to be forsaken ever by your heavenly Father.”
(I have to insert here that this falls short. He did mention that Jesus was sinless but was not clear the he was forsaken because of taking our Sin upon himself and that’s why he was forsaken, because of our sin. And at this point, we don’t even know what a sin is, because the Law hasn’t been preached. As far as we know at this point, a sin is letting our dream rot in prison or not believing God is talking behind our back or something. We have no idea.)
“There’s a divine reunion, and the access to that is by faith, because here’s what happened: when he rose again on the third day (assuming the crowd knows this I guess) there’s a literal bodily resurrection of Jesus Christ. It happened. He’s taken into heaven. Now he sits at the right hand of God.” (Covering the apostles creed, but I’ll bet he doesn’t get to the next part, that he will come again to judge the living and the dead.)
“His grace is available to anyone who will repent and believe. That’s it.” (Repent… from… what?! It’s like you’ve given someone the news the Governor commuted their death sentence and they didn’t even know they’d been convicted of a crime!) “To completely trust him with your life, place your faith in him.” No, placing your faith in him is not so much “trusting him with your life” as trust in His life, death and resurrection. I am not capable of perfectly trusting God with my life.
“By Grace you are Saved” (Pulled from context) “If you know you are not in a right relationship with the Lord tonight…” How would they know that? Y’all have done everything there at C3 to make sure that they feel “in tune with God” complete with altered state of consciousness that probably results from the loud repetitive music and rhythmic mantras Furtick cheered from the stage.
Gives instructions for magic prayer to bring them in right relationship with God, of course with “heads bowed, eyes closed” or the prayer won’t work I guess because that’s always part of the procedure. Instructing everyone to pray it out loud together, I guess so those who really need to pray it won’t be embarrassed or so maybe someone will accidentally get saved. Says this prayer will cause them to saved and cleansed and forgiven if they want to give their lives to Jesus Christ. Problem, the Bible says Jesus gave his life for us, not the other way around. And… Salvation, cleansing and forgiveness come, according to God’s Word, from baptism, receiving his body and blood through the Lord’s Supper, and through the proclamation of the gospel:
Arise and be baptized and wash away your sins…” (Acts 22:16)
“For this is the blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.” (Matthew 26:28)
“For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes… (Romans 1:16)
54:00 Steven Furtick’s “Sinner’s Prayer”: “Heavenly Father, I come to you now. I confess that I’m a sinner. I need a Savior. I believe you died for me Jesus. I confess you rose again. I ask you now to give me new life. Change my heart. I want to follow you. I want to be like you.”
55:00 Asking crowd to shoot their hand in the air on the count of three (while eyes are still closed) to say they prayed that prayer. Saying he’s not trying to emotionally manipulate. Asks those with hands up to come forward to… altar? There’s an altar? I just see a stage. No manipulation? Furtick keeps prompting and flattering those who come forward for their boldness and the music is continuing to swell.
56:00 ”Come on, come on, run to this altar! Run to Jesus!”
57:05 Starts addressing people who have come forward regarding their “decision” and picks up Bible and tucks under arm. Interesting. Maybe he is just preparing for his exit of the stage. But he takes his Bible. Where’s his tablet he was using? I think that’s still on stage.
58:25 ”Repeat after me: I am a new creation in Jesus Christ; I am a new Creation in Jesus Christ. Hallelujah!” /band swells again/
58:38 Phil Pringle back on stage. Praying for God to fill everyone with the Holy Spirit and with peace and to let them have “an experience that is undeniable”. Yeah, they’ll at least have an experience. And we know that these guys teach you that no one can argue with your “experience”. Pastor Phil doing the thing with the low-talking, forcing everyone’s attention to be fixed on him because they have to strain to hear. Getting ready for a big crescendo. Keeps throwing out buzz words in rhythmic, mesmerizing way:
“Holy Spirit… the Anointing… Power of God from on High… Fills hearts…. And Changes worlds… in Jesus’ name” You can feel… yourself getting… sleepy and… very suggestible. Then says gently, “Hey guys, look this way.” (Still in gentle tone) This totally reminds me of when a hypnotist transitions from bringing the person into the altered state of consciousness to carefully placing whatever suggestion is needed. It will be very interesting to see what Phil Pringle chooses to say next:
Fixed his attention on a particular teen crying next to stage and asking, still rhythmically, why he’s crying. He just wants to be happy. He starts naming, still rhythmically, all the people that are near the stage that love him and that “we all love you. You matter more than you think.” Again addressing another teen. Boy this guy is good. I am mesmerized and I can’t stand the guy.
1:00 Phil Pringle starts singing Beatle’s song for no reason whatsoever, other than the kid saying he’s 17 and the age mentioned in the Beatle’s song is 17. Again, with a soft mesmerizing voice. Then talks to another teen. Why is he picking all the teens? Is that all that came forward? Telling him to stick to his decision, don’t let his friends drag him of. “You’re strong. A very powerful young man.” Mesmerizing, mesmerizing. I’m blissed out just listening to this. The dude freaks me out. How many more minutes of this? I might be catching a plane to Sidney if I’m not careful. Won’t bore you, more of the same. Only addresses the young people that came forward. “Do you feel different after praying that prayer? How do you feel? You feel incredible?! There’s a cartoon called The Incredibles, isn’t there?” How hip and relevant for you to know that, Phil. “They’re powerful. You’re more powerful.” And this imitator of C.S. Lewis’ green witch continued to mesmerize them. We need the stench of Puddleglum’s burning flesh to wake us up here. Wow.
Now flattering a 12-year-old saying he thought he was 18. “Are you a good boy? … Isn’t that nice… you look like a good boy. God’s proud of you. He’s very happy you’re out here tonight.” Wow. He’s now telling them about the “born-again motor” that’s been put inside of them to empower them to do all the things that God wants them to do. Wow, that’s a new one. Haven’t heard that one before.
1:05:25 Fail! Phil Pringle just calls one of his staff members by the wrong name when he calls her up on stage to tell everyone up front to follow her out. Then spends time flattering her to make up for the fact that he forgot her name. She seems to swallow it, laps it up. Ugh!
1:07:15 Band whipping things up again. Crowd goes while. Phil thanks crowd and tells them they’re “stellar”. He pauses before “stellar” because he probably wants to avoid “brilliant” since Steven Furtick so perceptively pointed out that that word has little meaning in Australia. So he pauses before “amazing” too. Probably a little irritated that Steven narrowed his already limited vocabulary of flattery, which he’s doing now, continuing to flatter the crowd. Scratch, scratch, scratch. Just announced a painting (found out later Phil Pringle is selling his own paintings. People ting they’re anointed or something.) is up to $30,000 (silent auction?), announced by Laura. Nice. So glad y’all are making even more money than you’ve already raked in tonight. Talking up next year’s conference, register now. Brags about 21-day fast they went on before this conference.
Okay, gladly that’s all. But I should insert one last disturbing note. I was informed by my friend Mr. Jake Elliot that this particular sermon was actually the bright spot in the whole conference. It was downright orthodox in comparison with what the other speakers put out there the rest of the week. And here is the Pooh Bear Clip I promised. I couldn’t help but be thinking of this particular clip and wondering if this is more where Steven Furtick got the inspiration for this sermon, more so than the Bible.
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Chris Rosebrough has once again hit the airwaves on ‘Pirate Christian Radio’, slamming the behaviour of Phil Pringle and Steven Furtick at Presence Conference 2012. Listen to him at ‘Fighting For The Faith’ to critique Steven Furtick pulpit pimping at Presence Conference (12/04/2012) below:
April 13, 2012
• LCMS Seminary Prof Promotes Lectio Divina
• The Church’s Most Dangerous Enemies
• Steven Furtick Prosperity Pimps for Phil Pringle at Presence 2012
• Good Easter Sermon by Jonathan Hunt
Rosebrough states at the beginning of his program,
“… I’m going to be playing the audio from a video segment where they are- where Phil Pringle is basically getting people geared up to give for a miracle offering. Give money and you’ll receive a miracle. It’s – I mean it is- so, so blatantly obvious and just terrible as to how they are, you know, fleecing the people attending the Presence Conference! And using God as the pretense for it. It’s- it’s- uh-ah-ih- I don’t even want to say it borders on criminal. I think it’s flat-out criminal. I can’t see that this is not a crime in the Kingdom of God, what these men are doing. Steven Furtick and Phil Pringle, both.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (8:20), 13/04/2012.
When Furtick says at 28:25 on Rosebrough’s show, that Elisha tells the widow in 2Kings 4 to give, Rosebrough responded,
“No! Elisha did NOT tell her to give. Not one red cent. He just lied and blasphemed the name of the one-true God by mis-using his Word, to pimp this people for money.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (48:30), 13/04/2012.
Rosebrough correctly points out that Elisha asked the woman what was in her house. She said she had the oil. But Rosebrough points that she never gave that oil to Elisha. Instead he instructs her to keep the oil, get large containers and start filling. She was blessed with a miracle. A gift of grace. She did not give to get.
Rosebrough makes this claim about Steven Furtick,
“Steven Furtick is prosperity pimping here, priming the financial pump for Phil Pringle and the Presence Conference. And he’s doing it by mangling God’s Word.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (46:48), 13/04/2012.
In critiquing Steven Furtick’s offering talk, Chris Rosebrough stated that Furtick’s talk was “unbelievable” and “just blasphemy” (50:00),
“This is a con-job.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (52:20), 13/04/2012.
Rosebrough picked up on something Furtick said and re-quoted him saying,
“Did you hear that sentence? “I’ve got many things from God that money can’t buy but it started with what I had.” Money. BUY-YOUR-MIRACLE. This isn’t Christianity. This isn’t God, the Holy Spirit speaking through Steven Furtick. That’s a different spirit.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (53:40), 13/04/2012.
Chris continued and critiqued Christian McCudden, the C3 worship band and the miracle offering promo. Rosebrough exposed the scam of this as it played and summarised the event saying,
“Steven Furtick has turned into a full-blown prosperity pimp, twisting God’s word and priming you know people to give large amounts of money. He’s a now a studious student of the a prosperity pimp, known as Phil Pringle down there in Australia. This is not Christianity. You can’t buy miracles from God. In fact, scripture talks specifically about those who would try to buy miracles from God.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (1:03:52), 13/04/2012.
Chris Rosebrough highlights that Acts 8:4-24 deals with a similar issue with the C3 Presence Conference 2012. The point of Simon trying to buy the power and gifts of the Holy Spirit from Peter results in Rosebrough stating,
“These people think that they can BUY God’s gifts. Buy. BUY! Purchase God’s miracles. And what’s happened here is that Phil Pringle and Kong Hee and John Bevere and Steven Furtick- well they’ve turned themselves into- well, miracle men who can perform miracles or give miracles for a price. Just give money to them and God will somehow will be impressed. And they can purchase these wonderful gifts of God. God’s mercies and promises can’t be purchased. It shows that, well, Steven Furtick ‘n Kong Hee ‘n Phil Pringle… Well, they’re no different- NO different than Simon the Sorcerer. In fact, I think Peter’s words to Simon the Sorcerer apply perfectly to men like Phil Pringle, Steven Furtick and Kong Hee: “May your silver perish with you because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money. You have neither part nor lot in this matter for your heart is not right before God. Repent therefore of this wickedness of yours and pray to the Lord if possible the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. For you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity”. That’s right. That’s right – it applies.” – Chris Rosebrough, Fighting For The Faith, http://004f597.netsolhost.com/fftf/F4F041312.mp3, (1:06:45), 13/04/2012.
Some may make the claim, “Who is Chris Rosebrough to make such a claim against such men?” Chris Rosebrough has stated that he will be reviewing the Presence Conference. At the end of his review, we encourage those judging Chris Rosebrough (who criticised these preachers), to consider these questions:
1. Who has proven to be worthy in handling the teachings of God correctly?
2. Who represents the counsel and person of our Lord Jesus accurately?
3. Who then should have a higher or more respected position to judge rightly and correctly?
So far, Pringle unfortunately has proven again and again incompetence in handling God’s Word on C3ChurchWatch (please browse the archives).
Unfortunately, Kong Hee, Steven Furtick, Phil Pringle and John Bevere have disqualified themselves as teachers of Jesus Christ with their dishonesty, bad conduct, bad teaching methods and woeful scripture handling.
If you feel lead, please pray for the C3 Church Movement and the speakers at this Presence Conference. Please also pray for the victims who may have suffered from this ungodly teaching.
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Jesus said “seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness” (Matt 6:33) and NOT, “seek first 30, 000 easter eggs.” C3 Church came up with an ‘innovative’ way to market and celebrate Christmas this year at their church. Their website advertised an ‘Easter Egg Chopper Drop’.
This only goes to show that Phil Pringle and the C3 Movement have converted to Furtickism. This Easter Egg Chopper Drop is not innovative at all. This concept was originally Steven Furtick’s idea. Furtick writes,
“They laughed at us.
Almost everybody did.
The ones who didn’t laugh in our face must have been laughing behind our backs.
And with good reason, mind you.
We were laughing too.
It was a dumb idea, and it shouldn’t have worked.
But it did work.
Last Easter, with a fledgling 2 month old congregation of about 200, we pulled off an Easter event that made headlines.
It involved 50,000 Easter Eggs falling from the sky and thousands of dollars in prizes.
2,500 people showed up.
No one went to the hospital.
No drunk moms pulled each other’s hair out fighting over the prize winning eggs.
And we made a statement to our community:
We’re here to play ball. Happy Easter Charlotte.
We’re going to do it again this year.
The 2nd Annual Elevation Egg Drop.
Bigger and better than before.
You wait and see.
BONUS: This year, we’ve already heard of at least a dozen other churches who are going to do the event in their own cities.
We’ve been able to help many of them.
That makes me thankful.
Thankful that our stupidity is contagious and is going to help lots of other churches reach their communities with their unique (and hopefully better) versions of this Easter Egg Hunt on steroids.
I remember more than one pastor telling me what an unwise move it was.
It had never been done before, and it could flop.
True, but it could also not flop. It could be a monster success, and possibly even catch on all over the country.
Don’t you think every mammoth concept was downright laughable until it was a reality?
Inherent in any vision that has the possibility of really taking off is the possibility of really tanking, right?
Do you even think that maybe if people aren’t laughing at your ideas, you aren’t dreaming big enough?
When you think you have a good idea, and the people you trust are behind it, and you believe the best you can that God is the author of it…
Let people laugh.
Laugh along with ‘em.
And go for it.
The more the idea makes you laugh, the better the chance it’s from God.
If it fails, laugh even harder and learn something from it.
(By the way, the more expensive the failure, the more you’d better learn.)
If it succeeds, laugh at that too.
Because you know that without the blessing of God you would truly be a laughingstock.
If it isn’t worth laughing at, is it really worth doing?” – Steven Furtick, http://www.stevenfurtick.com/elevation/let-%E2%80%98em-laugh/, 23/03/2007.
“Come and watch as 30,000 chocolate eggs shower down from a helicopter and then hunt them down yourself!”
How much do 30,000 easter eggs cost? And how much would hiring a helicopter be? While people are celebrating this expensive ‘easter event’, remember who is paying for it: the vulnerable, poor and desperate through Pringle’s false teaching. We know he teaches that God wants to bless people financially if they give sacrificially or give money to him to unlock their financial miracle. (See archives)
So why is C3 Church doing this then? This is simply another form of advertising for Phil Pringle’s Presence Conference.
In relation to this advert, another add pops up on the myc3church.net. A massive advert for John bevere attending the C3 Oxford Falls easter services.
“Join us for our 10am EASTER SUNDAY service, with guest speaker John Bevere.”
C3 is giving platform to a gnostic teacher who preaches a different gospel. They are rebelling against God’s Word where God says,
“Anyone who runs ahead and does not continue in the teaching of Christ does not have God; whoever continues in the teaching has both the Father and the Son. If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not take him into your house or welcome him. Anyone who welcomes him shares in his wicked work.” 2 John 1:9-11
Read about this dangerous teacher in these articles below:
Again, we must ask why C3 is continually promoting these delusional cult-like speakers through their manipulative marketing techniques. Why do they want to be associated with these cult-like messiahs and ‘anointed ones’ who preach false messages and gospels?
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THE PRESENCE PLATTER OF RESOURCES
This article will look at the Presence Conference 2012 speaker line-up at the Presence Conference website (Phil Pringle, Steven Furtick, Kong Hee, John Bevere). Consider this article as a platter of resources, that can allow people to look at the speakers themselves.
We regret writing so harshly on the speakers. However, the purpose of this article is to warn Christians in love about these men and the dangers of the Presence Conference 2012. Unfortunately, every invited speaker has revealed they are both heretical and dishonest to say the least.
Pringle says on his Presence Conference website,
“BE CLEANSED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT AND LET A POWER COME UPON YOU THAT WILL CHANGE THIS WORLD”
You will never forget a Presence Conference with Phil Pringle. His sessions on miracles, anointing, vision and freedom are life changing. Phil is the author of 10 books, a speaker, television host, successful artist and President of C3 Global, an international network of nearly 400 churches. He is the Senior Minister of one of Australia’s fastest growing churches, C3 Church and he has spent over 30 years pastoring and equiping hundreds of ministers to plant churches around the world. Phil has seen powerful moves of God and the glory of God filling the atmosphere.
Just like famous heretics Joyce Meyer, Kenneth Hagin, Jess Duplantis, Benny Hinn and Kenneth Copeland (ministers Pringle likes to be associated with), Pringle also teaches that Jesus went to hell and suggests that Jesus lost his divinity on the cross.
Pringle also manipulates church statistics and words to convince people he is a legitimate Christian minister and to convince Christians to give him money. He’s also convinced people he has churches that aren’t even part of C3 yet and worse – don’t even exist.
He’s made claims that he oversees 1,200 C3 churches or around 500 C3 churches. His website still says he runs 258 churches or oversees around 300. The above blurb says he now has 400 churches. Is Phil Pringle lying to convince anyone to come to his Presence 2012 Conference? You decide.
We have again and again put forth evidence to clearly show his incompetence in rightly handling the holy scriptures.
We have also demonstrated how his teachings and philosophies are similar to New Age / New Thought and occult teachings.
We’ve revealed his scheming abilities to exploit people financially and use the church and the word of God to elevate himself…
… and we have revealed scandalous-like behaviour within his movement…
… and have observed Pringle using the church as a business tool to sell his paintings and merchandise (more will be written about this). He also reveals his motivation to get other Christians and their churches to join his movement.
Finally, we have faithfully demonstrated his ability to twist words and scriptures to convince Christians to BUY their miracles from God at His miracle offerings.
You can see that Pringle has schemed people in the past to pay for HIS Presence Conference costs via entry fee and ‘free-will’ miracle offering.
And we know that he uses services in a way to get people to give out of their emotions, not their reason.
In his own words, Christians must “distrust those who flatter us” as he continually markets and flatters vulnerable Christians be involved in his Presence Conference 2012.
One has to wonder not only what he will preach on this year but what type of speakers he has invited to his conference this year.
The C3 Website has a photo of Steven Furtick with a quote next to his face. How can Furtick supposedly state “There is a lost, hurting, broken dying, desperate, sorry world without Christ”, when he himself abuses Christians, sensors the gospel and elevates himself to some type of messianic figure?
If Steve Furtick is indeed saying this, he needs to explain his track record of bad behaviour and appalling teaching. Why does he openly condemn Christians who want to know Jesus? Why did he sensor the gospel at his 2012 Code Orange Revival?
If Christ is so important, then why does he say the church is the answer and not Christ? If the church is the answer, then why does he say that his church is not for people who want to know Jesus? Why was he hostile against the gospel at his revival by sensoring it? If Christ is important at all, why did Furtick cheer Perry Noble on for promoting him as Messiah?
It’s disturbing that Phil Pringle is STILL endorsing Steve Furtick to give him the platform to thousands of Australian Christians. Long-term critic of Steve Furtick, Chris Rosebrough has labeled Steve Furtick and Elevation Church a cult.
Rosebrough also received a personal letter from a member of Steve Furtick’s Elevation Church. They seem to agree with Rosebrough’s assessmnet of Furtick’s church.
After examining the articles that C3ChurchWtach have written, it becomes quite apparent that Furtick is not telling the truth. If you examine the evidence that Rosebrough puts before you, it’s easy to come to the same conclusion – Steve Furtick is not a truthful minister. In fact, it is safe to say that Steven Furtick is creating a
It should be made known that Kong Hee has been exposed in his country as an alleged plagiarist. This was the blog that exposed Kong Hee,
Here are some articles that examine the issues in regard to the supposed plagiarised works.
As ‘Transitioning’ points out, Kong Hee’s publisher has many loopholes in their explanation and says Kong Hee’s “alleged plagiarism issue is no big deal now compared to the CAD probe into CHC’s financial affairs”. This latter issue still seems to be ongoing, Phil Pringle helping in KH’s effort to support his ministry.
In spite of all this, the people Kong Hee endorses are issues themselves (Steve Munsey, John Avanzini, Yonngi Cho, etc).
His use of scripture in his sermons are manipulative and misleading at best, sprinkled with heresy, pagan philosophies and vain imaginings. Kong Hee has proven to be a faithful disciple under Pringle’s prophetic direction and is just as ruthless exploiting those in his church that are unemployed like Pringle.
With this background knowledge, why is Phil Pringle inviting the cult-like leader Kong Hee to speak at this years Presence Conference? He is not faithful to scripture, faithful to the church, faithful to the poor or faithful to the community. Hee is continually misrepresenting Jesus for worldly reasons.
This brings up an important issue regarding Hee’s wife. Kong Hee loves his wife Sun Hee (and fellow pastor at his church).
He has stated to his church that “Sun is my wisdom“.
After much deliberation on what to write about Sun Hee we’ve finally concluded that you can decide for yourself by watching her music video ‘China Wine’. (She is the female singer of this video clip (00:20).)
(Edit 18/04/2012: Kong Hee justified his wife’s role and played down the intelligence of pastors who criticised them both:
“I think the struggle many pastors have is the difficulty to separate her association with me (as a pastor’ wife) and her career as a singer. I agree that if she is a “pastor” or “preacher,” perhaps the video would have been inappropriate. But Sun is not a pastor…
Some [Pastors] said she was promoting free sex and immorality. But any intelligent, objective viewer would know that the whole drama is not about sex; if anything, it portrays the reality of a fallen secular world…”
After examining Kong Hee, his wife and his controversial ministry, one must ask: What kind of message will Kong Hee bring to Presence Conference?
C3 seems to suggest that Bevere said, “We need men and women who will speak the word of his grace. The word of his power and bring change.” They also mention his books,
“(The Bait of Satan, Drawing Near, Driven by Eternity, The Fear of the Lord and others)”
It’s odd they didn’t mention this ‘grace’ preachers book, “Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing” (2007). The book title says it all; how can you attract (earn) the favor (grace) of God on your life? It’s odd he says we need men and women who “speak the word of his grace” but promotes the exact opposite in his mentioned book.
We’ve discussed Bevere’s doctrine of tithing and his belief that if you submit to leaders like himself, God will make you rich and receive double portions of God’s Spirit. Read it here:
While it is good to biblically submit to Godly authorities, Bevere confuses it and delivers a burden-binding ‘gospel’ message. While his book seems to promote a lot of truth, there are concerns that should be bought to light on his false gospel of salvation-by-submission.
To preach the message of the gospel is the central mission of the church for all people to hear and know about Christ crucified. If anything contrary is added to the gospel or any truth taken away from it, then one must question the legitimate authority of that teacher, prophet or shepherd.
But we can safely say the hidden gnostic principle on ‘honor’, (John Bevere says he has discovered), has made him deviate from the central gospel of salvation.
“I didn’t understand the honor principle. I was in the process of learning. Now I want everyone to know!” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 37.
To make matters worse, Bevere reveals he is a word of faith teacher by stating On page 102,
“Simply put, the promises of God are not automatic; they must be acquired by faith.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 102.
What else are we meant to gain if Christ has already “blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing” (Eph 1:3)? What else are we to acquire if we are told to “count all things to be loss in view of the surpassing value of knowing Christ Jesus” (Phil 3:8). What are we to gain that we haven’t gained already?
We will see Bevere is promoting himself, his authority and his gospel of works-by-faith. Paul, in imitating Christ’s authoritative nature (Philippians 2:5-11), uses his Godly apostolic authority in this way towards the Thessalonians (emphasis mine).
“… Nor did we seek glory from men, either from you or from others, even though as apostles of Christ we might have asserted our authority” Thes 2:6
And as Jesus said (our highest authority),
“Jesus answered, If I honour myself, my honour is nothing: it is my Father that honoureth me.” John 8:54
A quick reading of John Bevere’s book gives a strong impression that Bevere is lacking in humility and loves to be recognised by the world (pg. 34-35, 36, 45). He’s bold enough to claim,
“I learned that day it had nothing to do with me but how I am received as one sent by God. The prisoners valued, honored, esteemed me. The church members said with their body language, “We’ve heard it all. We’ve heard it all. We’ve heard many guest ministers; what do you have to say that’s any different?” The vast difference of results stemmed from one word-honor.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 38.
So Bevere likes to be honored. Like this?
“Beware of the scribes, who like to walk around in long robes, and love respectful greetings in the market places, and chief seats in the synagogues and places of honor at banquets,” Luke 20:46
His message through out the book is that God CANNOT bless or favour you unless you earn it through submitting to leaders like himself. Convinced about his faith-by-works message, Bevere shows hostility to Christians who do not submit to church leaders. He attacks biblical reason by convincing Christians that they,”are a people trying to understand Kingdom principles with a democratic mindset.” (Pg. 44.) In saying that the democratic mindset is the problem, he leads us to believe that the honor principle, (which he believes is the key kingdom principle), is the solution to earning God’s grace and blessing. (That’s what this whole book is about.)
“The kingdom of God is not a democracy. So if we relate to God with a democratic mindset we will not connect with Him. We will be without the protection of His authority and can be easily misled. Could this be why Jesus said so many in our generation would be deceived?” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 44.
He is saying that the kingdom of God is not characterised by equality. Furthermore, if we relate to God with a mindset of being equal with one another or approach the kingdom of God with a democratic mindset, Bevere says we cannot connect with God. What is the alternative of being democratic that Bevere is insinuating? Dictatorship? Thou-shalt-not-question-me?
Has Bevere not read Paul say the following?
“On the contrary, those parts of the body that seem to be weaker are indispensable, and the parts that we think are less honorable we treat with special honor. And the parts that are unpresentable are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need no special treatment. But God has combined the members of the body and has given greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its parts should have equal concern for each other.” 1Corinthians 12:22-25
Bevere is also insinuating that Jesus says that many will be deceived by this faulty democratic thinking in regards to the kingdom of God.
No John. People become deceived by following false teachers, leaders and self-proclaiming prophets (pg. 37) like yourself with your false gospel of works. The gospel saves the simpleton. And Christ is the protector of His disciples (John 17:12) and the guardian and true shepherd of His sheep (Psalm 23, John 10). Those who don’t want Jesus chase after false ministers like yourself.
Observe how prejudice and hostile Bevere gets towards Christians who prefer house churches,
“This Western mind-set is the cause for most church splits in America, and why so many people are resorting to home churches. These professing believers do not want to be under the authority established by Jesus Christ Himself.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 45.
Professing believers? Why is he implying they are not under the authority and lordship of Jesus Himself, or even saved? Why is he alluding to them being the ones causing division? Is Bevere not acting as judge concerning trivial things (Colossians 2).
Only those who do no Only those peddling a false gospel with false doctrines based on the traditions of men are causing division. Bevere claims “They lack true New Testament government and accountability” (pg. 45). New Testament government? Like a dictatorship? After all, he’s not teaching about a kingdom based on 1 Corinthians 12. His attack on Christians continue,
“… you find many believers who have been hurt or offended and are therefore disillusioned with church structure. They’ve resorted to home churches in order to live without accountability.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 45.
The proof of his false teaching is constant throughout his book, deviating from scripture and replacing words in scripture with the word ‘honor’ to support the teachings in his book. (eg. replacing words like blessing, time, praise, esteem, submit with honor). This is not how you treat the teachings of God. This ‘man of grace’ starts attacking the gospel of grace. Bevere says,
“There are three benefits for honoring these [abusive] leaders. First, if treated unfairly, our obedience to submit puts our case in the hands of God who will judge justly (see Pet. 2:21-23). If we take matters into our own hands, God steps back and we are on our own, a miserable place to be.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 58.
What does he mean if we react to bad leadership that “God steps back and we are on our own”? What do we do if we are obedient to bad leadership? Why should we be called to submit to bad leadership? Bevere explains,
“Why are we called to do this? To position ourselves to receive a blessing (reward). So when you are mistreated, especially by someone in authority, you can get very excited because you are being set up for a reward.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 58.
Once again, aren’t we already blessed with every spiritual blessing in Christ? If we aren’t seeking this blessing in submission, does that mean we are not saved? Is Bevere implying we can lose our salvation since he blurs the lines, scriptures, definitions and contexts? If anyone critiques Bevere or has issues with him speaking at Presence Conference (or any leader speaking at the event), would he even consider them Christian or saved? Bevere makes this claim,
“If you are truly born of the Spirit of God, you will recognize and esteem authority. In fact, show me a person who has no regard for authority and I will show you a person who is not a child of God. It doesn’t matter if he’s prayed the sinner’s prayer and goes to church weekly. He who has no honor in his heart is not saved.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 46.
We can conclude that people who suffer from Oppositional Defiance Disorder cannot ever be saved according to Bevere. However we can agree with Bevere on this.
“There is only one time-I repeat, one time-the bible tells us not to obey an authority; and that is when authority tells us to sin (do something contrary to the written Word of God.” – John Bevere, Honor’s Reward: How To Attract God’s Favor And Blessing, 2007, pg. 46.
The issue now is who’s authority we need to submit too; Bevere’s authority or God’s authority? Is Bevere confused or is he enticing us to sin by following a gospel contrary to the one the Apostles preached? The bible teaches us that Satan is the god of this age and even he has authority. Wouldn’t that make those who come under his authority false prophets? False teachers? Perverters of God’s Word? Many will claim to come with an authority and a message of authority. But who is teaching the true gospel of Jesus Christ? The point we’re trying to make is the same point Paul makes.
“… even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!” Galatians 1:8-9
To imply Bevere wants to see “men and women who will speak the word of his grace” while promoting a different gospel that damns is clearly hypocritical as his ‘honour principle’ is a different gospel (different message). It was Paul that placed an anathema on those who preached a false gospel like the works-based gospel of the false teachers back in the Galatian province. We suggest any reader takes Bevere’s advice and “not… obey [Bevere’s] authority.” How can his authority cannot be from God if Bevere is not honestly representing the God of the bible?
Just like Phil Pringle, Steven Furtick and Kong Hee, John Bevere is another dishonest minister speaking into the lives of thousands of Christians at Phil Pringle’s Presence Conference 2012.
What does Pringle hope Christians will learn from these speakers? The deception is, Pringle thinks he is blessing local churches. What will this mean for the churches around Australia?