Tag Archives: kelsey

Pringle’s PMA Posse Vs Jesus

02 Monday Dec 2013

Posted by in C3 Ministry, Pringle's Language

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Mark Kelsey once preached about Jesus reading the scroll of Isaiah in the synagogue (Luke 4). At some point in the sermon Kelsey had the following brainwave about Jesus being raised in the synagogue/church. 

Kelsey raises a good point. Can you imagine a pastor raising up the Son of God in their synagogue? Wouldn’t Jesus be critical of the pastor preaching poorly? Wasn’t Jesus adamant against the blind teachers that did not see that the scriptures pointed to him?

In Luke 4, Jesus WAS critical of the congregation. He dared to criticize the people’s unbelief and rejection of his Messiahship. As a result of this, the people tried to kill Jesus by throwing him off a cliff.

According to Pringle, Jesus fails to live up to Pringle’s definition and standard of faith. If someone is critical of Pringle and his PMA posse of pastors, they are not tolerated. Consider how intolerant Pringle becomes when people criticise his pastors:

“DON’T you DARE criticize and pull down your pastor or anybody else around here! If you want to do that, just go now! We’re having too much fun to have the critics and the miserable people around! Just leave now!” – Phil Pringle, “God Creates With Words” // Dr. Phil Pringle // 02.12.12, Vimeo, http://vimeo.com/37288145, Uploaded by C3 Church San Diego, 22/02/2012.

To read more instances where C3 does not tolerate people like Jesus who have a lower Positive Mental Attitude than Pringle, read our article here:

C3 Tirade Brigade

Mark Kelsey Gets An “I’m An Idiot” Revelation?

10 Sunday Feb 2013

Posted by in Church Sermons, Sermon Reviews

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Pastor Nicholas Gervase Charmley and Chris Rosebrough weigh in on a bizarre sermon by Mark Kelsey. The sermon is titled, “The “I’m an Idiot” Revelation”.

In the past, Phil Pringle has stressed in leadership gatherings that he doesn’t want intellectual people in his movement. (He calls them “intellectual idiots”.)

Instead, Phil Pringle wants passionate people in his movement who can be shamed into worship, conform to his emotionally manipulated environments and groomed through crowd control methods. Read and watch the article below:

Pringle Teaches How To Control & Fleece People

Idiocy In High Places?

If you browse the articles on C3 Church Watch, you will be quick to discover how these emotionally controlled environments and dishonest giving sermons trick people into thinking they are giving money to God.

With the above information in mind, Mark Kelsey in the below sermon further convinces people that they should get the idiot revelation to keep them going to C3 church. You can hear Chris Rosebrough review this sermon by Mark Kelsey here:

NOVEMBER 16, 2012

CREFLO DOLLAR AND FACEBOOK CURSES

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• Sermon Review The “I’m an Idiot” Revelation by Mark Kelsey, C3, Oxford Falls, Australia

Source: CREFLO DOLLAR AND FACEBOOK CURSES, Fighting For The Faith, http://www.fightingforthefaith.com/2012/11/creflo-dollar-and-facebook-curses.html, 16/02/2012. (Accessed 02/02/2013.)

To show how absurd the theological teachings are of Mark Kelsey Mark said this:

“God’s aim for you and I is the glory of God. It’s not salvation. His aim for you is not salvation. Most Christians do not understand this. God’s aim for you is not salvation. Salvation is a means to an end. His aim for you is to restore you to His original intention, for you. He has an image of you that is so glorious. So His aim is that, ok. So there’s the aim: the glorious version of you. The ‘I’m no longer an idiot’ version of you.” – Mark Kelsey, Mark Kelsey – The I’m An Idiot! Revelation (Part 3 of 4), 3:15, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5-cHpfqTLQ, Uploaded by changefilm on Nov 28, 2008. (Accessed 16/11/2012.)

Gervase Charmley had this to say about Mark Kelsey’s comment:

“It has been said that “A difference that makes no difference is no difference at all”, and frankly it seems to me that is what is going on here. The problem seems to be that he has some idea of what “salvation” is that comes short of the fullness of it, and so he can say in effect “God’s aim for us as Christians is not salvation, but salvation”. Which makes no sense. It’s incoherent, that’s my thought on this.” – G.N. Charmley, 15/11/2012.

You can watch the original sermon here on youtube.




NOTE: SCREEN GRABS WERE TAKEN ON THE 16/11/2012.

Pringle and Kelsey Practicing The Word of Faith Heresy Since 1982-3

20 Sunday Jan 2013

Posted by in C3 Culture, Pringle's History

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Author John Barclay records the history of the C3 Movement from it’s early beginnings in his book “Arise” (endorsed by Phil Pringle).

Chapter 12 is titled ‘Counselling’. On page 115, Barclay writes about the testimony of someone called Peter McHugh between 1982-3. Barclay wrote, “He [Peter] and Mark Kelsey had studied together at Univesity” (pg. 115).

Barclay records Peter McHugh getting saved and explores the process how his wife got ‘saved’. John Barclay writes,

“He got a letter away as soon as possible to Lyn, and when the reply came back it was to tell him very simply she never wanted to see him again. That of course took no account of a number of factors which had since come into operation, factors which Lyn then could never understand.

The excercising of faith by a very determined man of God can work miracles, and Peter began the positive confession of the restoration of their marriage. In the week prior to Lyn’s return to Australia he spoke constantly aloud to affirm that she would be saved. He said it over and over, out loud, speaking his faith in thanks to God, and both Mark [Kelsey] and Phil [Pringle] agreed with him.

His own conversion had been so total and so swift that now there was no room for either doubt or failure. No possibility of it. He gave it no thought, but spoke out success.

‘Life and death’ we are told, ‘are in the power of the tongue’, and Peter now used that power to inject life into a once dead marriage.”

(Source: John Barclay, Arise, 12 Counselling, Covenant Publishing, 1987, pg. 116-117.)

Above, John Barclay recorded McHugh, Pringle and Kelsey practicing the Word of Faith Heresy. We have to stress this again: Phil Pringle endorsed and allowed John Barclay to record these events. Phil Pringle exposed Mark Kelsey and himself practicing the Word of Faith heresy.

If you read our older articles, readers will be shocked to see the Word of Faith’s connections to New Age and Occult practices.

C3 Encourages Members To ‘Buy’ Revival For People Who Can’t Afford It?

10 Saturday Nov 2012

Posted by in C3 Culture, C3 Teaching, Pringle's Issues/Events

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Scriptures say to those who put a price on the Holy Spirit:

“May your silver perish with you, because you thought you could obtain the gift of God with money! You have neither part nor lot in this matter, for your heart is not right before God. Repent, therefore, of this wickedness of yours, and pray to the Lord that, if possible, the intent of your heart may be forgiven you. For I see that you are in the gall of bitterness and in the bond of iniquity.” – Apostle Peter, Acts 8:20-24

Mark Kelsey says,

“Obvously ‘Every Woman’ is coming up in a couple of weeks time in ‘Every Woman’s Conference’. And ah- you can also- oh! We want you to register. Men, register for your women. Women, register for yourself and buy a ticket for someone else. And why don’t you- do that? Like the staff did, buy a ticket to someone who can’t afford to go. Who thinks that?

Who thinks there are women out there who want and need revival but maybe can’t afford it- so we can be that to them as well? – Which is great!” – Mark Kelsey,  Phil & Chris Pringle – Mars & Venus Part 1, http://www2.myc3church.net/videos/phil-chris-pringle-mars-venus-part-1, Sunday, 10am, 14/10/2012.

What is revival? According to Pringle a revival can be manufactured. When people are in this C3-type-of ‘revival’ they can control people where they sit, shame people into worship, con people to empty their wallets and get them emotionally manipulated.

Pringle Teaches How To Control & Fleece People

Idiocy In High Places?

This is not Christianity. This is a disgraceful sham. Why would C3 encourage Christian’s to ‘buy’ revival for victims who “can’t afford” to be involved in a financial scam? How is scamming people loving? Will they get someone like Kong Hee or Phil Pringle to encourage those who can’t afford revival to empty their bank accounts?

Empty your Bank Account | Phil Pringle’s negligence in allowing Kong Hee to fleece at Presence 2012

The Pirate, The Presence & The Peddlers

Amazing Distortion Effort Made By C3 & Prophet Phil Pringle (Part 5)

14 Thursday Jun 2012

Posted by in Pringle's False Prophecies

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Before reading this article, please read Part 1, Part 2, Part 3 and Part 4.

WHEN A PROPHECY FAILS…

In Part 3, we recorded Pringle saying,

“Immediately afterwards when that happens, when Warragamba Dam does spill over, that’s the time that the Lord will bring a fresh new move of the Holy Spirit all around Australia. And we’ll see a move of God like we have not seen before”. (Emphasis mine)

In Part 1, we encourage you to watch Pringle prophesy at the C3 Church at Oxford Falls, how revival was going to hit the building. In Part 4 we analysed the prophecy itself. In this final article, we will be looking to see if the prophecy was fulfilled at C3 Church Oxford Falls.

In looking at the above quote, when Warragamba Dam was reported full, was revival immediate? On the 4th of March 2012, Pringle preached a message titled Heartbeat – Servanthood. Their uploaded video showed us… There was no revival at the C3 Service. There  is a LOT of seats behind Pringle.

In that night time service on the 4th of March 2012, Mark Kelsey preached a message titled Heartbeat – Servanthood. C3’s uploaded video showed us… There was no revival. Drat!

The following Sunday morning (11/03/2012), Pringle preached a sermon titled the The Engine Room. Was their a revival? Were there queues outside wanting to come into the house of God?

What about that night service on the same day (11/03/2012)? Pringle preached a similar sermon with the same name: The Engine Room.

For Philip Day’s Saturday night session ‘Let there be light‘ (17/04/2012), it looked as though C3 disabled the camera that gave us the shots we needed to see the audience. But the next day on the 18th, while Peter Paauwe preached Breakthrough Part1, we saw… No revival. Empty seats lay scattered around the room. (Note them in the foreground and at the back of the room.)

By now, this prophecy is already looking ridiculous. But just in case someone justifies from C3, “God’s ways are not our ways’, we must continue. Maybe, God was going to move that night? Nope.

By this stage you may be thinking this is tedious. But we have to do this. Either God is going to bring a national revival through C3 or Phil Pringle is a false prophet. The following week on the Sunday morning, 25th of March, Pringle preached a sermon titled ‘The Engine Room: Connect’.

C3 didn’t upload a sermon that night. But we figured if their was a revival in that meeting, they would have definitely filmed it to prove to every other church that their church was the one with God’s blessing. The following week on Sunday morning 1st of April 2012, the joke was on C3 as Pringle preached ‘The Engine Room: Revive’. There was still NO revival.

That night while Pringle preached another sermon, seats were still empty (see them in the background).

A month has passed and Presence Conference is about to hit C3… Was God going to show up at C3 Church so Presence could experience revival? It seems logical that if God was going to move, it would be before the before Presence Conference. Why? So the international audience can bring back ‘God’ to their country God.

This would fulfill the prophecy of Pringle because God told him when the Warragamba Dam floods, it wasn’t just C3 church and all of Australia that were to experience revival. It was going to be a global revival. So when John Bevere spoke on Resurrection Sunday morning… was… there… revival? (Look at all the empty seats behind Pringle.)

That is a LOT of people short of a revival. Cross your fingers for Pringle, tonight God must show up or else…

So there is no prophecy fufillment. None.

… A PROPHECY FAILS…

But maybe God DID move after Presence Conference? If you’ve seen footage from the Presence Conference scattered around C3 Church Watch, you know revival did not turn up. If revival broke out at C3 Presence Conference in Darling Harbour – then God would contradict himself in the prophecy as mentioned in Part 4.

So was there going to be revival AFTER the Presence Conference? Steven Furtick preached that Sunday morning (15/04/2012), a message titled ‘Stay Behind The Guide’. You can see empty seats straight at the back of the auditorium.

Nope. What about the night service?

Did revival happen next Sunday morning (22/04/2012), while Pringle preached his sermon Connect? That’s also a lot of empty seats behind Pringle again.

Did revival come when Andrew Kubala preached ‘The power of a seed‘?

No. While the room is dark and smokey, if you look to the seat at back of the room, they are empty. More seats remained empty the following Sunday in Mark Kelsey’s sermon on the 29th of April. There was no revival.

The night service that Sunday wasn’t full either.

Pringle’s Inception movie sermon the following week on the 6th of May 2012, did not experience revival.

In Pringle’s continuation on Inception that night… there was no revival to be seen.

On mothers day on the 13th of May 2012, there was no revival while Pringle spoke on ‘A Mothers Worth‘.

Even that night, there was no revival.

When Mark Kelsey got up the following week to speak Sunday morning on the 20/05/2012, there was no revival.

However, he had this to say to the congregation in the giving message. Was he saying this because people were feeling cheated from Pringle’s false prophecy?

“I don’t know about you but I get frustrated sometimes. We have got one of the greatest churches in the world, one of the greatest worship teams. We’ve definitely got the greatest pastor in the world. We’ve got the greatest pastoral team. The greatest connect leaders, what have you. We’ve been given Christ. We have the bible. We have the New Testament. We have the outpouring of the Holy Spirit. And yet people sit there and go, “Yeah well. It’s not quite enough is it? You know we gotta…”.” – Mark Kelsey, Justin Richards, 35:47-36:19, http://www2.myc3church.net/videos/justin-richards, Night Service, 20/05/2012. (Accessed 11/06/2012.)

Of course it’s not enough Mark Kelsey. Didn’t you hear what the “greatest pastor in the world” prophesied? Didn’t you hear yourself say “I get frustrated sometimes”? Why is Mark Kelsey chastising the sheep in his congregation when it is his prophet that prophesied falsely that revival was going to come?

In spite of this, Justin Richards spoke that night. No revival.

The following week (27th of May 2012), a speaker by the name of Jamie Haith, spoke at C3’s morning service… Where revival was still a no-show.

Jamie Haith spoke that night where revival still refused to turn up.

Then on the 3rd of June, Pringle gave his morning money fleecing sermon, where revival still remained absent. Ironic that Josh Kelsey made the claim of Phil Pringle “We have the best leader in the world” (23:25), when this was the video camera shot that followed:

In the continuation of Pringle’s groom-a-thon that night, the storm of revival did not turn up.

CONCLUSION

C3 said the dam overflowed on the 3rd of March. We have recorded the ‘spiritual’ status of each Sunday service to the 3rd of June. This is a three month period.

It is safe to say that:

God DID NOT say, ““Immediately afterwards when that happens, when Warragamba Dam does spill over, that’s the time that the Lord will bring a fresh new move of the Holy Spirit all around Australia”

God DID NOT say, “Watch me. That thing is going to overflow. And as it overflows, a revival is going to come through the nation.”

God DID NOT say, “the power of God is gonna touch this city with revival”.

God DID NOT say, “the Spirit of God is gonna fall on this nation”.

God DID NOT say, “the power of God is gonna pour down out of heaven”.

God DID NOT say, “If you will build my house, if you will commit yourselves and not give yourselves comfort but will build the house, I will fill this place with my glory”.

God DID NOT say, “these [c3 church] seats will be full!”

God DID NOT say, “Every service you come, you will queue in line to be in the house of God”.

This prophecy is a lie. A scam. We have thoroughly examined in all five articles that Phil Pringle prophesied falsely. There is no escape room for Pringle.

Not only did he mislead his entire church, he mislead thousands of Christians around Sydney. Not only did he also mislead thousands of Christians around Sydney but also across Australia. Not only did he deceive thousands of Christians across Australia, he also mislead thousands of Christians across the world who attended his Presence Conference 2012 and watched him falsely prophesy online.

To recap all that we’ve explored in this series of articles, in:

Part 1 – we looked at how C3 purposely distorted information at their Sydney Presence Conference, taking snippets and screen grabs fromNews Articles and blogs to portray the world as wrong and Phil Pringle as some Godly prophet.

Part 2 – we looked at how C3 and Pringle mislead people to believe that God used Pringle against media and ‘false prophets’ to prophesy that the Warragamba Dam would be full again. We examined how C3 and Pringle used this prophecy twice to advertise and elevate their movement to Christians and churches locally and globally. We explored that it was highly likely that Pringle prophesied out of reaction against those he dislikes and pride.

Part 3 – we looked at Pringle’s further insight to his Warragamba Dam prophecy to help us understand the actual prophecy itself and what he thought this meant. He informed us that C3 met the conditions God said through him so C3 can experience revival.

Part 4 – we analysed the Warragamba Dam prophecy and proved it to be false.

Part 5 – we examined every service for three months to see if revival would break out “immediately”. This was from the time Warragamba Dam overflowed (03/03/2012) to June (03/06/2012). We have proven that the prophecy has not come to pass with it’s promise of a revival.

The right thing for Pringle to do is to humble himself, apologize and step down, admitting he has done Christianity a massive disservice. How many Christians will have their faith shaken or shipwrecked because C3 convinced them to put their faith and hope in the words of a false prophecy?

We would like to know if any information in our articles is wrong. If you find any information that is misleading in our investigation of Phil Pringle’s false Warragambe Dam prophecy, please Contact us at c3churchwatch@hotmail.com.

Pringle Teaches How To Control & Fleece People

18 Wednesday Apr 2012

Posted by in Pringle's Behaviour, Pringle's Influences, Pringle's Methods

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Let the preacher do the talking. We were gob-smacked.

Didn’t people realise Pringle was talking about THEM in his meetings in services like they were in? It was THEM that triggered him to talk about how to manipulate people. (Emphasis mine.)

“You know every meeting I’ve been in, THIS PRESENCE. Like, you guys are at a whole new level. There’s no doubt about it. When we’re looking for extra seats in the night meetings. . . And everybody’s like hair-triggered excited. You go to another level of thirst. Suddenly, THE THIRST OF THE PERSON NEXT TO YOU GETS TO YOU. Now I want to tell you something…” – Phil Pringle, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21UnCWm7eO0&feature=player_detailpage#t=9s, 13/04/2012.

The Pirate, The Presence & The Peddlers

18 Wednesday Apr 2012

Posted by in C3 Spirituallity, C3 Teaching, Pringle's Issues/Events

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This article will provide an overview of the C3 Presence 2012 open night. We wish to point out that Chris Rosebrough from ‘Fighting For the Faith’ (Pirate Christian Radio) has started his critique of the Presence Conference 2012.

On Open Night, C3 opened up with worship. At EXACTLY ten minutes in, a silent passion narrative took place. Red cloth rolled out from Jesus’ hands out to the far reaches of the Sydney Convention Center to represent Jesus’ blood covering people. This was all done close to two minutes.

A silent portrayal of the crucifixion 10mins in.

The lights dropped and the screen read,

… the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Matthew 12:39-40

What followed was an ambiguous special effects narrative showing light, smoke and darkness. A key drops. A sphere of light covers part of planet earth. The sphere of light shoots up like a fire work and explodes the word ‘VICTORY’. This was all done close to two minutes. The precise timing of these events is important.

This was followed with more worship. But what did that cross story mean? Christians and non-Christians clearly saw Christ portrayed crucified. Would this be explained?

After worship, Kong Hee was introduced to… preach an offering message. C3 thought a GIVING sermon was the next most important thing to schedule after this ambiguous passion narrative.

Kong Hee is the pastor of City Harvest Church, Singapore. Chris Rosebough from ‘Fighting For the Faith’ reviewed this giving sermon here at 38 minutes into his program:

April 14, 2012

Kong Hee’s Fleecing of the Masses

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Chris Rosebrough was not impressed by how brazen Kong Hee was in his false teaching. Chris Rosebrough commented before Kong Hee gave this talk,

“Here is Kong Hee from the first night of Presence Conference out there in Sydney Australia. That this guy can talk like this without hanging his head in utter shame is beyond me.” (39:28)

It should be worth noting that the way Presence 2012 treated Jesus at the start. Kong Hee’s money sermon seemed to completely disregard the passion narrative of it’s significance as he talked about his life and how God wants to bless us when we give sacrificially. Why didn’t he explain the importance of Jesus’ sacrifice? Isn’t that the whole point of a Christianity? To preach Christ and Him crucified? (1 Cor 1:23)

Ten minutes in at the C3 Presence conference, Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. Kong Hee came in and taught Christians that by observing the Law (tithe and firstfruits) and by our sacrificial giving we can attain our desires by human effort, God being the means.

Why did Kong Hee teach Christians that they could get miracles if they observed the Law and ‘principles’ of giving? We need to heed this exact warning from God:

“You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing? Does God give you his Spirit and work miracles among you because you observe the law, or because you believe what you heard?” – Galatians 3:1-5

While Kong Hee was teaching on the types of giving, Chris Rosebrough slammed Kong Hee’s teaching.

“I cannot believe I am looking at the video on this and people are sitting rather than standing up and walking out in protest. Unbelievable! Do they not know they are being fleeced [swindled great deals of money]?” (43:53)

“Notice! Everything is a quid pro-quo. You’re BUYING from God. This is a multiplication scam. A ponzy scheme blamed on God.” (46:18)

To summarise the four types of giving Kong Hee taught, Rosebrough reports:

“See if you give money to them [C3 Church], God’s going to be moved and he’s going to “explode prsoperity” into your life. This is not what the bible teaches. This is shameful.”(47:40)

Kong Hee then read out 2 Corinthians 9:6-8. Rosebrough teaches how this biblical passage condemned Kong Hee’s entire giving message:

“It’s funny. Do those words mean anything to you Kong, as you’re reading them? “Don’t give under compulsion.” You’re basically saying people have to give under compulsion. You’re turning God into a Mafia-don.

“We’ll if you don’t give the tithe- well then the destroyer gonna come and destroy you. Yeah you gotta give. Yeah! You gotta give! Give! Give! Give! Give! Oh and then you plant the seed and God will, y’know, explode prosperity.” This isn’t what the bible teaches at all. This turns God into a slot machine or a genie.” (48:12)

Rosebrough continues his criticism while Kong Hee started suggesting people empty their bank accounts.

“Now this is where he plants the seed of you giving a lot of money in your brain. And you sit there and go, “Oh. Maybe God the Holy Spirit’s telling me to give a big seed too?” By the way, the bible doesn’t teach this the way he’s teaching it. . . So he said that he wants somebody there to give everything they’ve got; give it all to them. They’ll take it. “Thanks! Oh thank you! Thank you for giving everything!” They’ll be happy to take it. . .  So this is to plant the seed in their minds that someone there- God’s telling them to give everything. . . Don’t you want to be like Kong hee? Don’t you want to give everything? Maybe God will speak to you the same way He spoke to Kong, right?” (52:45, 53:18, 53:50)

Seeing right through it all, Rosebrough repeats,

“This is a ponzy scheme! This is one of those pyramid schemes, you know. And who’s at the top of the pyramid? Oh Kong Hee, Phil Pringle, Steven Furtick- yeah those guys! They’re at the top of the pyramid. “Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Just give us everything you’ve got! Don’t worry! God knows you need money. And so he’ll put dreams in the heart of other people so they’ll supply your needs.

Why would I need to give everything I have to a church like C3 in Australia where Phil Pringle mangles and twists God’s Word, doesn’t rightly handle the Word? He’s a- I think it can be demonstrated as a false prophet. Why on earth would God want me to give everything to them? Hmm? This is ridiculous. This is not a Christian or biblical teaching regarding giving at all. This is people making merchandise and teaching for shameful gain things they ought not to teach, (using King James language). This is preaching for filthy lucre.” (55:09)

The pirate said of the peddler,

“Yeah, because he [Kong] planted a seed! So you got to plant a seed if you’re in financial trouble! You gotta plant a seed too! And that’s on TOP of your tithe, your firstfruits, and your alms giving. . . Yeah! Tell them a story and they’ll start writing big checks! Isn’t that how it goes?” (56:36, 56:57)

Kong Hee then swayed people emotionally and not with reason. He said,

“Since then, God has taken us from glory to glory. But EVERYTHING, all the blessing, if you asked me, can be traced back to the one night, in a service like this when I didn’t have anything and I have a mountain of debt, newly married, with not much hope and future. I couldn’t see the light at the end of the tunnel. But a simple act of obedience, trusting God by faith and giving my best seed- I got a feeling tongiht pastor phil. I havea feeling tonight that some of you here, who may be in my situation twenty years ago. Maybe you’re newly wed. Maybe you’re stuck with a situation of financial debt. Maybe you have visions and dreams but you’re in so much darkness, you can’t see the light at the end of the tunnel. ” (57:34)

To which Rosebrough quickly retorted with,

“Don;t worry! We’ll be happy to take everything you got! That’ll clear you right up. . . He’ll supply all your need as long as you give him a LOT of money! . . . Yeah! See you’re buying those blessings.” (01:01:25, 1:01:45, 01:01:53)

Kong Hee then starts brazenly asking people for money, operating in double talk (as Chris Rosebrough pointed out).

“I tell you what. Now I don’t normally do this but I sense faith in this room tonight. And I don’t like to talk about numbers. I don’t like to talk about figures. But maybe tonight, some of you need to give a big seed. A big one.

Maybe some of you need to give a hundred dollars. Maybe some of you need to give five hundred dollars. Maybe some of you need to give a thousand. Maybe, for you, a seed, a huge one, could be two thousand dollars. Maybe some of you, (that could be just one or two couples), that God has something great in store, and maybe tonight the Holy Spirit, already has been speaking to your heart to empty everything you’ve got. In my life, I’ve done it twice. I can tell you – God is not going to short-change you.” (01:01:56)

It’s important to note that when he gave everything to God Kong Hee claimed , “I was never poor again” (56:33). So why does he say that he was currently facing a financial crunch? (01:08:22, 01:01:30) Did Kong Hee lie to his multi-denominational and international audience of thousands?

—–

After the giving sermon, Pringle gives a sermon called ‘Connect’. Pringle’s ‘Connect’ sermon is completely void of the gospel. He spends a large portion of his sermon advertising his church, parading how a part of his movement grew. Many were called up to the stage. When everyone was up on stage Prngle shouted (almost frustratingly),

“Don’t you dare be thinking I can’t grow a church! This is how you grow a church! One person touching another! Connecting! Getting on the same page!” – Phil Pringle, Presence Conference 2012, Open Night.

Part from the fact that Jesus said, “I will build build my church” (Matt 16:18) and that the Lord adds daily people to His church (Acts 2:47), it is wrong to say that you grow a church through “connecting”. While connecting with people is important, what grows the church is the faithful preaching of the Gospel (Christ and Him crucified) and making disciples under the teachings of God. Faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ (Romans 10:17), not by “one person touching another”. Pringle could not have been any more wayward with his outburst.

The truth of the gospel and God’s word is what brings the power of salvation, which builds the church through the Spirit of God. Sadly, Pringle at the end of his sermon does an altar call. He does not give the gospel. This is an example of men “holding to a form of godliness, although they have denied its power” (2 Tim 3:5). All viewing online were able to see Pringle building his ‘church’ his way, not God’s way.

Rosebrough does not examine Pringle’s ‘Connect’ sermon but he does examine Phil Pringle’s Warragambah dam prophecy (1:09:34). This is also worth listening to. More will be written on this later.

C3 Exalts Pringle As Prophet With False Warragamba Dam Prophecy

In closing, Christ was portrayed as crucified at the beginning of the Presence Conference, but swept aside for a show without any explanation what his death and resurrection meant to sinners mean. And remember, this was all orchestrated and perfectly timed. Two minutes for Jesus crucified, two minutes for his resurrection, that’s it. The preachers preached themselves and Mark Kelsey presented the glory of their prophet Phil Pringle for six minutes with Pringle’s prophecy. This is a tragic way to begin a conference and is telling of what was to come. Christianity is about Christ and Christ crucified, not Pringle and Pringle glorified.

Rosebrough protests Pringle’s glorification:

“That’s just to get this into the public arena so the folks who are in Sydney Australia can warn their friends, warn their family members, warn people that they know, co-workers, to let them know that there is a false prophet on the loose who’s real goal is to get into their wallets, to get into their bank accounts, to get – you know – checks and debits off of their credit cards to huge dollar amounts. Cos that’s really what all this is about. Somebody who would promote this guy [Phil Pringle] as a prophet of God? You understand the implications that is? To question him, to challenge him is to actually question and challenge God. Because isn’t that whom he is supposedly and visibly respresentive here on earth of? No. He’s not. He’s not a prophet of God.

He’s a false prophet, a false teacher and a fleecer. This is a show. This is a show designed to get huge, huge bucks. Large sums of money. And to get foolish, unstable, unwise, unlearned people to fork over lots of money. And at the end of it, you know what happens to folks like that? The promised miracle never comes. When that happens, they lose even what little faith they may have. But it’s questionable as to whether or not the faith that they had was actually saving faith in the crucified and risen saviour.” (01:19:47)

Finally, we encourage readers to listen to the preachers at the end of Chris Rosebrough’s podcast and compare how the good preachers Rosebrough reviews,  handle God’s Word unlike Kong Hee. You wont be disappointed.

C3 Balmain Scandal? (Part 1)

02 Monday Apr 2012

Posted by in C3 Balmain Scandal

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From: http://www.christianchurchbalmain.info/

Important Information about Christian City Church Balmain

Booted After Asking About Money
After years of attending C3 Church Balmain, four weeks after asking the Senior Pastor Ward Lucas for financial information, the church punished my family and I by hiring a security guard to expel us forever.
After six years of attendance my wife and I had reluctantly heeded the biblical call to ‘test everything’.
We tested this church by privately questioning the use of money and resources, little of which appeared to be spent on taking care of those who went. We should have followed the bible and tested this group in the first year. Instead we accepted its claims to follow the bible and the teachings of Christ.
In fact it is selective about the things in the bible it adopts. The bible is certainly used on a weekly basis to ask people for money. But more important words in it like justice and mercy are ignored making it easy to throw out people who have broken no bible principle or rule, but have questioned the use of that same money.
The Love Ran Out
 
It all began when my wife and I disagreed with Pastor Ward Lucas.
How someone uses their absolute authority to expel powerless people in their care with whom they’re in conflict is a good test of their character. Conflict is when you find out if some really ‘loves’ you, or is just pretending to get emotional leverage.
It started when we legitimately questioned what they were doing with church resources.  Pastor Lucas made out all was well, but when we did not agree refused to speak to us about church problems.
Pastor Preaches About Issues
 
Weeks before throwing us out, Pastor Ward Lucas preached about things he was in conflict with us over, self-promoting himself and the church. In these sermons he claimed God wanted him to ‘take possession’ of people to ‘see them come into the Kingdom of God’.  This was a special ‘revelation’ given direct by God to Pastor Lucas.
He exaggerated church attendance numbers at C3 Church Balmain to make things look better than they were, claiming the church that had an average weekly adult attendance of about 80 had ‘grown to 200 people’.
He added to the recorded words of Jesus to suggest that sometimes Jesus wanted people Pastor Lucas called ‘doubting Thomas’ (my name just happens to be Thomas) thrown out of his presence (see Senior Pastor Preaches).
The Boot
 When we complained to Pastor Lucas’s C3 Church superiors and asked for a financial account he denied the preaching and hired a security guard to throw us out.
We were said to be purveyors of untruth that people needed to be protected from.  But if we had truly held and expressed untruths, because no one pays attention to a demonstrated liar, expulsion would hardly have been necessary.  Pastor Ward Lucas and C3 Church could have just published the details for all to see and left us sitting up the back, pitied by all.
No, it was a slander of my wife and I to cover up some truths that we had recognised (see Slander).  The love for us had ended.
How Do They Get Away With It?
C3 Church Balmain has some special characteristics to make it all possible.
In my opinion these characteristics are inherently un-Christian.  How you assess them is up to you as is your decision to put yourself and your family into the power of C3 Church.
1. Set Up To Discriminate
 
It is set up by the leaders so it can unfairly discriminate against most people who go.
Sometimes principled practices could be called discriminatory and still be fair.  But at C3 Church, church goers are deliberately stripped of any mechanism to protect them from abuse of authority by the paid servants of the church.
No-one who goes has any legally enforceable entitlements except the church leaders who are effectively the church owners.  They are the pastors Ward Lucas and Anthony Grant, their wives and a person called Mark Kelsey who is one of the key leaders of the body known as C3 Church (see The Church that Discriminates).
No-one else gets to join C3 Church Balmain’s legally incorporated body.  And there’s no other binding system of governance.  So everyone else is disenfranchised from basic rights our society holds dear.
Giving no legally enforceable commitments to people, not even a commitment to follow the bible, creates an environment of zero accountability.  Zero accountability is an obvious characteristic of an authoritarian system (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Authoritarianism).
Does it say to do this in the bible?  Not really.  But if one of the powerless sheep asks what you’ve done with the money, it sure makes it easy to boot them out.
2. Happy to Use Kangaroo Court
They are prepared to use the discriminatory environment they set up to expel people who have broken no rule or bible principle using a process with no characteristic of fairness.
The use of such a process reveals that when the ends (here presumably to conceal information from people) justify the means, the bible is put away and some other set of rules comes into play.  The act of expulsion of my family and I was explained here by a ‘judgment’ involving the senior pastor, and according to him, two senior C3 Church leaders, Mark Kelsey and Steve Janes.
Even if we were so bad we had to be thrown out to protect people (which I strenuously deny), you can see the process here by which they punished us and it does not lie.  It was a classic kangaroo court with no element of justice or fairness.  Read about it here, and you be the judge (see Kangaroo Court).
3. It is Covered Up
They won’t tell you about it.
Little information about their operating practices is made available as a matter of course to church people or the public.  Not much is recorded so you can’t assess for yourself why things are done.  No financial budgets or accounts are prepared and given out.  Legitimate questions can be met with a security guard.
Hiding information from you takes away your ability to make informed choices about participating and effectively conceals the true mission or purpose of C3 Church.  I went for seven years and was never told they selectively apply the bible to their conduct, and that they deliberately give church people no legally enforceable commitments of any kind.
They certainly didn’t tell me if I asked about their use of the money, or did any particular thing, they’d boot me out having broken no bible principle or church rule.  Not telling me about this took away from me my choice to end my participation.
You won’t read about any of this on the many, many internet based advertisements or website of C3 Church Balmain.  Check it out at www.c3balmain.org.au/.  You will see smiling happy faces, and words like ‘fun’, ‘friends’, ‘God’ and also the word ‘tithe’ (give us your money and ‘open the way for financial blessing’).  I only found out these things after seven years of attendance when I legitimately asked about how the money was used and complained.
Then it became clear the commitment to bible principles was a thin veneer.  Behind it was an iron clad commitment to controlling the flow of certain information at all costs.  No rules broken. No bible principles broken. But we don’t want people asking about money or discussing the facts, so out you go.
No Protection For The Powerless at C3 Church
Jesus isn’t reported as speaking of the unforgiveable sin of asking about money, or questioning or disagreeing with religious leaders.
Instead he blasted religious leaders who neglected justice and mercy and threw those making money out of the temple.  And then the religious leaders crucified him. Pastor Lucas claims that this same Jesus ‘built’ C3 Church Balmain.
But at C3 Church Balmain there is no enforceable commitment to be treated fairly.  No commitment to be allowed to have free access to the financials, an essential legal obligation of all secular charitable organizations in NSW (see www.olgr.nsw.gov.au/charitable_home.asp).  Not even a commitment to follow the bible.  Let’s just keep it nice and loose, like a private business.  So we can do what we like.
Senior Pastor Ward Lucas worked diligently to remove us.  The assistant pastor Anthony Grant helped put it into effect. Their ‘love’ for us proclaimed so often before we asked about their use of other people’s money had become something else entirely.  I’ve had more genuine enemies who at least didn’t pretend for years to ‘love’ me.
The C3 Church overseers Steve Janes and Mark Kelsey did not even speak to us before reportedly judging us to be liars, and recommending our forced removal.
No one protected us, or our kids.  Why would they protect you?
c3 Balmain Scandal

c3 Balmain Scandal

NOTE: ALL SCREEN GRABS WERE TAKEN BEFORE 03/04/2012

Does All Scripture Point To Mark Kelsey And C3 Leaders?

28 Tuesday Feb 2012

Posted by in C3 Culture, C3 Ministry, C3 Spirituallity, C3 Teaching, C3 Values

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EXEGESIS, EISEGESIS & NARCIGESIS

When a pastor teaches the congregation, they are meant to use exegesis.

A basic definition of ‘exegesis‘ is a, ‘Critical explanation or interpretation of a text, esp. of scripture.’1

This is the correct way to handle scripture. However, eisegesis was a very popular method used by pastors to approach the scriptures.

A basic definition of ‘eisegesis‘ is a, ‘personal interpretation of a text (especially of the Bible) using your own ideas.’2

This is an incorrect way to handle scriptures.

A basic definition of ‘narcissism‘ is ‘Extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of one’s own talents and a craving for admiration’.3

When you combine a narcisistic pastor using eisegetical methods you get Furt- a pastor who reads themselves into biblical passages. For example, they are to be a King David conquering giants. They are a Moses, leading the people. They are Solomon bringing the glory of God through their wisdom and expansion of the House of God. This is now becoming known as ‘narcigesis‘. No pastor should use the bible to exalt themselves.

ALL SCRIPTURE POINTS TO JESUS

Jesus said,

“You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!” John 5:39

By reading ourselves into the text, we replace Christ with ourselves. To do this is to be antiChrist-like. John MacArthur says,

“The spirit of Antichrist has always been in the world. It has manifested itself both in open opposition to Christ and in subtle attempts to replace Christ.”4

The term Antichrist is explained in Vines Expository Dictionary,

“Antichrist: can mean either “against Christ” or “instead of Christ,” or perhaps, combining the two, “one who, assuming the guise of Christ, opposes Christ” (Westcott). The word is found only in John’s epistles”

This is what makes pastors, teachers or leaders who practice narcigesis dangerous. If pastors  are reading themselves or their audience into the biblical text, they are reinforcing the belief that scriptures point to themselves, “instead of Christ”. We have seen Phil Pringle also replace God the Father with himself and Jesus with money. See articles:

C3 Giving Sermon Transcript: Just Another Manic Sunday

“Let Me Just Talk To You Out Of A Scripture” – Pringle’s Use of John 3:16

To quote Pringle from the articles:

“When it says ‘God so loved the world’, we need to put ourselves in there and say, ‘I so love the world, that I will give the only begotten son’. And for us to actually achieve that, to spread the Word of God around the world; to plant churches, make disciples, empower saints, build bible colleges- all of it is done through your giving.”

And again:

“We will so love the world that we will give sacrificially”.

In other words, his narcigetical interpretation of the text is, “For I so loved the world that I gave my finances sacrificially.” He would not be that bold to say something so obviously wrong. However, that is what Pringle was essentially saying.

Scriptures say,

“… This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.” 1 John 2:22

John 3:16 is a fantastic verse that teaches that the Father sent his Son so that we may believe in Him to have eternal life. Pringle denied this passage to speak alone on eternal life given to us by the Father and Son. He denied people access to the gospel. He denied people access to the Way of Salvation through the Father and Son. Instead he pointed a different direction to his congregation – self and money.

This is a good example why narcigesis is dangerous. Unfortunately, Executive Pastor Mark Kelsey took it one step further.

IF ONLY THIS WAS APRIL 1ST…

On the 1st of June 2011, Mark Kelsey spoke at the C3 Church Sydney Leaders Meeting.

“… And then Isaiah 61 sees Jesus walk into the temple. And goes, ‘Oo! Could be my day!’ He sees the scroll handed to the son of God. He sees him unfold it. He’s going, ‘Isaiah sixty one. Isaiah sixty – sixty one! One! One!”

And He, Jesus starts to read it. And He said, “Today this scripture’s fulfilled in your hearings.” Suddenly that scripture was fulfilled. You see, even Jesus found his identity in the word of God. Even Jesus- He didn’t go, “I’m the Messiah by the way. Did I tell you that? I am the Messiah.” He didn’t say that. He went to the scripture, found Himself in the word of God.

Where are you in the word of God? Where are you in it? Where are you in the word of God? Because THAT is what gets God on you. It’s not about knowing scripture, it’s about finding yourself IN the scripture. There’s the difference!” – Mark Kelsey, C3 Church Sydney Leaders Meeting June 1 2011, 19:19, http://vimeo.com/24594951, Uploaded Thu June 02, 2011.

At 10:49, Mark Kelsey says to C3 leaders about Christians in their bible studies (Connect Groups),

“They wont be impressed by what you know. They’ll be impressed by what’s on your life. That’s what touches people. That’s what feeds people. That’s what brings revival.” – Mark Kelsey, C3 Church Sydney Leaders Meeting June 1 2011, 19:19, http://vimeo.com/24594951, Uploaded Thu June 02, 2011.

WHY KELSEY SHOULDN’T USE MARKEGESIS

Remember what Jesus said?

“You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!” John 5:39

Mark Kelsey above teaches C3 leaders that “it’s not about knowing scripture” but wants them to apply scripture in a way that makes other Christians ” impressed by what’s on [their] life”. He is using the scriptures for selfish gain. This directly opposes the declaration of Christ and should not be how any Christian minister should teach.

Finally, Mark tells the C3 leaders that other Christians “wont be impressed by what you know” and how “what’s on your life. That’s what touches people. That’s what feeds people. That’s what brings revival.” Really Mark? Are we God? Are you speaking from experience?

1. Who touches people’s lives IS the Spirit of God.

2. Who feeds people IS the Word of God.

3. Who brings revival IS God when we exalt Him by preaching repentance through the gospel.

4. And we are NOT Jesus who IS the Word of God.

IN CLOSING

What was just reinforced in the minds of C3 leaders was narcigesis: putting confidence in the flesh; throwing out the Word of God and BECOMING the Word of God (“It’s not about knowing scripture, it’s about finding yourself IN the scripture”). This is very troubling.

This is the very EXACT THING that Pastor Matt Chandler spoke against at Steve Furtick’s ‘Code Orange Revival’. This was the sermon that annoyed Steve Furtick which he afterwards sensored. Possibly due to critics, he uncensored Chandlers sermon. Read our articles about this here:

Phil Pringle Endorsing Problematic Steve Furtick for Presence Conference 2012

Chandlers sermon is well worth the watch:

In essence – the scriptures NEVER point to fallen, sinful creatures. They point mankind to God, Jesus Christ – the fulness of God in bodily form. We are in Jesus but we are not Jesus. We are made in His image but we are not God.

If you feel lead to pray for Mark Kelsey and the C3 movement, please do so.

______________________________

[1] Oxford American Large Print Dictionary, Oxford University Press, pg. 434.
[2] Wordnet, Princeton University, http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=eisegesis, (Accessed 28/02/2012).
[3] Wordnet, Princeton University, http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=narcissistic, (Accessed 28/02/2012).
[4] John MacArthur, Grace To You, Marks of a True Believer, http://www.gty.org/resources/study-guides/40-5145/Marks-of-a-True-Believer, (Accessed 28/02/2012).