Tag Archives: lie

C3 Church Mt Annan being less than truthful to their congregation? (Update)

24 Tuesday Feb 2015

Posted by in C3 & Pringles Associations

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One of the most disturbing things about the CHC/Kong Hee scandal, is how C3 leadership are refusing to educate their movement on the revelations emerging in Singaporean court proceedings. Instead of waiting to invite Kong Hee to speak at their churches after the trial proceedings (and Kong Hee has been vindicated), C3 instead are inviting Kong Hee to speak at their churches and being less than truthful about Kong Hee to their congregations.

In the screen shot below, advertising Kong Hee speaking at C3 Mt Annan, the leadership are guilty of:

1. Lying about Kong Hee’s status (“hosting one of our generations greatest leaders”).

There is nothing ‘great’ about this man if you look at the hard evidence revealed in court and admire his greatness as a serious fraud. The scheming that he has been involved in since 2002 has left the Singaporean public ashamed of this man.

2. Lying about Kong Hee’s influence (“is a highly sought after speaker worldwide”).

The only possible reason why Kong Hee could be “highly sought” is because:

a) His mentors, Phil Pringle, Casey Treat, AR Bernard, John Bevere and Yonggi Cho deliberately mislead their congregations about the circumstances of Kong Hee’s trial and continue to invite him to speak the way C3 Church Mt Annan has.

b) Church leaders are simply ignorant of this man’s schemes at CHC.

Thanks to Christian radio, blogs, websites, forums and media, many Christian churches are beginning to ask the right questions and are not willing to be associated with Kong Hee and his church.

3. Lying about church attendance figures of CHC, (Kong has grown City Harvest Church Singapore to more than 32,000 attendees in 20 years).

 

The word games on this do not make the grade. This ‘propaganda’ has been promoted for years. Phil Pringle has no problem misleading his C3 Church movement over this issue. Back in 2012 and 2013, C3 advertised that Kong Hee had “grown his congregation to over 28,000 members through passionate prayer and discipleship”.

And now we are lead to believe that the church has grown to 32,000 attendees/members?

Kong Hee & Phil Pringle: It Is Not About The Numbers… Right?

Why are C3 leaders and members allowing this misinformation(propaganda) to continue being promoted by their C3 church leadership? Why are not more Christians trying to contact Phil Pringle and ask him to be honest about Kong Hee? Why is it so important for Phil Pringle to keep lying about the Kong Hee?

4. Lying about Kong Hee’s church reputation, (“his Church is viewed as one of the largest, most vibrant and influential congregations in Asia today).

This is one of the biggest scandals to hit Singapore and its citizens are not happy with how long the trial is going. The reputation of Kong Hee and CHC is so bad that Phil Pringle and the C3 movement have to publicly lie to their movement to keep members from leaving.

Members of C3 should be terribly ashamed of the conduct,  not only of Kong Hee but also Phil Pringle and the C3 leadership. When people are lied to so brazenly, they feel insulted, they feel betrayed and their faith in God can be terribly shaken. If you are a member of C3 Church reading this, we pray that the Holy Spirit will convict you to be a voice in the C3 movement about the conduct of the C3 leadership surrounding the Kong Hee scandal.

C3 MOUNT ANNAN ADVERT

C3 Church Mt Annan write,

On Friday 13th Feb at 8pm we have the incredible privilege of hosting one of our generations greatest leaders, Pastor Kong Hee.

Ps. Kong is a highly sought after speaker worldwide. Ps. Kong has grown City Harvest Church Singapore to more than 32,000 attendees in 20 years and his Church is viewed as one of the largest, most vibrant and influential congregations in Asia today.

Don’t miss this unique opportunity to listen to an incredible speaker here in our very own church!

Source: February 2015, C3 Church Mount Annan, http://www.c3churchma.com/events/february-2015/, Accessed 25/02/2015.)

proof_C3ChurchMA-LyingAboutKong_24-02-2015

EDIT 25/02/2015: Furthermore, Chew Eng Han made this accusation to AR Bernard in an open letter for exaggerating CHC church figures on television:

“One of my specific concerns which I brought to you was the falsified attendance figures, which was claimed to be 33,000 instead of the actual twelve to thirteen thousand.” [Source]

It only goes to show how flippant with the truth these leaders are.

Prophet Pringle’s God-Given 2020 Vision Lie (Part 5) Which C3 leader do you believe?

21 Wednesday Jan 2015

Posted by in Pringle's Influences, Pringle's Laws, Pringle's Methods

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“I’ve never found that God asks us to do something that is within our means or within our resources. And so the Vision that we have is always going to be bigger than we currently are. They always call for faith and that’s why it’s so exciting because God calls us to do things that are beyond our abilities. So we’re relying on him. and his power to make it happen.”

Source: Phil Pringle, C3 Church Culture Video, Vimeo, http://vimeo.com/61320694, 07/03/2013 at 10:56 PM.

If you are a C3 member and were told that your pastor, Phil Pringle, has been constantly lying to you about receiving direct visions and instructions from God just so he can manipulate you, what would you think? Would you shrug it off and keep attending C3? Would you feel disgusted that Phil Pringle abused your trust in him as a leader? Would you feel unclean that you are serving a man who is using your God to manipulate you for his own selfish ends?

LIES, LIES AND MORE LIES FROM C3 LEADERSHIP

Let’s look at the facts.  For years Phil Pringle has been hell-bent on trying to deceive his congregation into believing that God gave him his 2020 Vision. Remember when Phil Pringle said, “God has given us a strategy and as we follow that pathway, we will find ourselves expanding right around the world?”.

The fact is that Phil Pringle lied.

God did not give Phil Pringle the 2020 Vision, nor did God give Phil Pringle and his leadership team a “strategy” to fulfill his 2020 Vision.

Christian Schwarz helped Pringle and his staff formulate the 2020 Vision and various strategies to see this come to pass. If C3 want to lay claim that God used the NCD to give Pringle the God-given 2020 Vision, then Pringle and C3 leadership still lied by omission. Why portray Phil Pringle in all their propaganda as a prophet receiving a timely vision from God to plant 1000 churches by the year 2020?

CHRISTAN A. SCHWARZ AND NATURAL CHURCH DEVELOPMENT?

The truth is that Christian Schwarz, the operations manager of the Natural Church Development Organization, helped Pringle and his staff formulate the 2020 Vision as well as the various strategies to see this Vision come to pass.  A few years ago Schwarz interviewed Pringle’s close friend, Gordon Moore. Moore is the man who is speaking as a representative of the C3 Church movement in the video below. In this interview Gordon discloses where the 2020 Vision originally came from as well as the source of their  church growth strategies. The proof that Pringle’s “God Given 2020 Vision,” as well as the strategies to carry it out, did not come from God is in the following statement from Gordon:

“We have formulated as a result of all of this [NCD workshops] our 2020 Vision which is to have a thousand churches with a average size of five hundred.”

So why hasn’t Phil Pringle and his leadership team told the truth about the fact that they were being led by the Natural Church Development strategies of Christian A Schwarz? Why lie? Might it be that  Phil Pringle thought that if he convinced his congregation that it was God’s vision rather than his own that the people would support it?  Who is Phil Pringle really trusting to lead his church?

These are serious questions considering the fact that people at C3 genuinely believe that Pringle is a prophet and gets direct visions, (like the 2020 Vision), from God.  Trusting in, and following, false teachers and false prophets is one of the ways the devil keeps people from true faith and the true repentance for the forgiveness of sins.

Moore also revealed his thoughts what would happen if C3 did not fulfill the Phil Pringle’s God-given 2020 Vision:

“However if we don’t, we’ll be pretty happy with the journey because we’re going to be healthy on the way through. But our feeling is that we’re probably going to do pretty well  with our vision.”

There you have it folks. Gordon Moore does not care if Phil Pringle gets away with lying in the name of God to manipulate the tens of thousands throughout the C3 movement. If they fail the 2020 Vision, as long as people are “pretty happy with the journey”, why should Gordon Moore and Phil Pringle worry about desecrating the integrity and character of God? How can anyone in C3 feel “pretty happy” when these men boldly lie in the name of God to manipulate them?

If a prophet claims to speak and see on behalf of God and their claims do not come to pass, the bible in the Old Testament commanded that the false prophet be stoned. If these false prophets are found in the church, they are too be excommunicated and condemned for their lies and blasphemy. However, such action in C3 culture is considered to be “unloving”. As we have documented continually, C3 loves their false prophet to the point that they will demonise and slander those that question their prophets behaviours outside their church.

Our question to C3 members who wish to defend the blatant lies of Phil Pringle:

If Pringle comes to you and rips you off blind with his lies and false visions, why do you put up with it?

We will be looking more at the Natural Church Development organization as time progresses.

Below this video is the transcript.

Source: Results of NCD in C3 Churches, Results of NCD in C3 Churches, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzIPWHQLydE, Published on 14/08/2012. (Accessed 17/01/2014.)

TRANSCRIPT

“Results of Natural Church Development in C3 Churches in Australia”

Christian: “We just spent a wonderful evening with Gordon Moore  here in the restaurant in Brisbane. But he discussed and shared a lot about experiences that this church has made. Uh, Gordon, your representing the C3 Churches which is according to our research, the healthiest denomination that we are aware of. At the same time the denomination that applies the principles of NCD most consistently. Can you share about what roll National Church Development play in your overall strategy.”

Gordon Moore: “Uh, sure Christian. First of all I’d like to say thank you very much for coming to Australia. We’ve been really looking forward to sharing with you and hearing from you. Um. NCD has probably been the one of the greatest tools we have encountered. I guess first of all in our journey as a movement of churches we started out very organically. Uh, naturally with a move of God and just seeking to plant churches. We found that NCD helped us bring that empirical evidence of growth and health in the life of the church. So our movement has embraced NCD as our number one health analysis tool. We use it in oversight. We encourage all our churches to do this. But we go further than that. We actually take the results and the consultation that comes from your team and seek to apply that to the local church level and also the nation and to all our churches in the movement.

Christian: “Let’s us ask real quickly. Where do you expect your movement to be in the year 2020?”

Gordon Moore: “Funny you should say that Christian. We’ve formulated as a result of all of this our 2020 Vision which is to have a thousand churches with a average size of five hundred. The thousand churches is our quantitative vision that we look for growth, we look for the kingdom of God to grow in advance and also the five hundred average size is a quality measurement. Where after a “kind-of” church. A church that ranges somewhere between four hundred and eight hundred, that has a team that is viable, that has the resources to go out, plant churches and fulfill the commission of Christ.”

Christian: “And if we meet again in eight years from now, will you say, ‘We have arrived there’ or do you sense that you will be far away from that?”

Gordon Moore: “We’re on track to meet that. However if we don’t, we’ll be pretty happy with the journey because we’re going to be healthy on the way through. But our feeling is that we’re probably going to do pretty well  with our vision. I mean if you aim at nothing you’re gonna hit it every time, right? So we believe that having a vision is important but the most important thing is that we are vitally connected to Christ and our lives our healthy. And that reflects in our churches as well. That our churches are healthy communities that are growing and manifesting Christ to a needy world.”

Source: Results of NCD in C3 Churches, Results of NCD in C3 Churches, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzIPWHQLydE, Published on Aug 14, 2012. (Accessed 17/01/2014.)

We will be looking more at the Natural Church Development organisation as time progresses.

RELATED ARTICLES

Prophet Pringle’s God-Given 2020 Vision Lie (Part 1)

Prophet Pringle’s God-Given 2020 Vision Lie (Part 2)

Prophet Pringle’s God-Given 2020 Vision Lie (Part 3)

Prophet Pringle’s God-Given 2020 Vision Lie (Part 4)

Prophet Pringle’s God-Given 2020 Vision Lie (Part 1)

22 Tuesday Oct 2013

Posted by in C3 Culture, C3 Ministry, Pringle's Beliefs, Pringle's Issues/Events, Pringle's Language, Pringle's Laws, Pringle's Methods, Pringle's Outcomes, Pringle's Prophecies

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Around the world for almost ten years, Phil Pringle has been promoting his 20/20 Vision. While we do not believe this vision is from God, we think it is necessary to see if Phil Pringle is indeed fulfilling the vision that ‘God’ gave him.

In this article we wish to document Pringle’s emphasis of PLANTING churches by the year 2020. We apologise to readers in advance if what is stressed in this article becomes monotonous. Hopefully, you’ll understand what we’re trying to establish in articles to come.

PLANTING 1000 CHURCHES BY THE YEAR 2020?

CHC’s propaganda paper, City News reports (emphasis ours):

C3 Church International, a global movement of over 240 churches was founded by Phil Pringle.

Pringle and his wife, Christine, started C3 Church in 1980 in Sydney, Australia, today, one of the most exciting and influential churches in the Asia Pacific region. Pringle’s 2020 vision is to plant 1,000 churches in 15 regions by the year 2020. This has resulted in a global movement of vibrant churches, which have been birthed as a result of his leadership and vision. Today, Pringle maintains an uncompromised passion to see cities changed by a contemporary, relevant and anointed church.

Source: Annabelle Low, Planted In Hong Kong, City News, http://www.citynews.sg/2011/04/planted-in-hong-kong/, Updated on 14 April 2011. (Accessed 10/01/2012.) (Emphasis added.)

In another article, the CHC propaganda agent reports that the 2020 Vision is “to see 1,000 churches planted by the year 2020”.

“From Aug. 23 to 26, 1,800 pastors, itinerant ministers and full-time church employees from 22 nations gathered at the Sunway Pyramid Convention Centre in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia for the tri-annual C3 Church Global Conference.

Last held in Hawaii in 2005 with an attendance of 1,100 people, the conference is part of the C3 Church movement started by Phil and Christine Pringle, senior ministers at C3 Church Oxford Falls, in Sydney, Australia. Its vision, termed “Vision 2020” is to see 1,000 churches planted by the year 2020 with an average attendance of 500 members.

Through Vision 2020, the C3 movement has grown from 71 churches in 2000 to over 300 today; from five nations in 2000 to 35 nations today, riding on an escalating momentum of revival around the world.”

(Source: Yong Yung Shin, Go Into All The World, http://www.citynews.sg/2011/09/go-into-all-the-world/, Published on 22 September 2011 at 3:36 pm. (Accessed 10/02/2012.)

C3 Raleigh says,

About C3 International

In 1980, a young couple from New Zealand arrived in Sydney with their family and the vision to start a church.

Ps. Phil and Chris Pringle held their first service with just 12 people attending, but by the mid 1980’s it had grown to over 500 people. They began to start other churches and soon independent churches also joined. As the number grew, the collection of churches became known as the Christian City Church movement (now called C3 Church).

Initially C3 began planting churches around Sydney but then expanded across Australia and then the world. Currently, C3 Church has over 230 churches worldwide – in Australia, New Zealand, the Pacific Region, Asia, Africa, Europe and North & South America.

The 2020 Vision is to plant and grow 1000 churches and C3 understands that to achieve this it must connect people to God, connect people to people and empower people for effective, joyful service.

Our History

C3 Church in Raleigh is a part of C3 Church International, a global movement of churches started by Ps. Phil and Christine Pringle, with a vision to build 1,000 vibrant local churches with an average membership of 500 by the year 2020.

We believe in faith, hope and love, a bright, colorful, positive and encouraging church atmosphere
a church that the unchurched are attracted to, filled with music, light, supernatural happenings,
vision, purpose, loving people, and great preaching.

We are irreverent, risky, fun, conservative, serious and holy.
We love people. We love each other. We really love God, and He loves us.

To learn about other C3 Churches, visit www.c3iglobal.org.

Source: Our History, http://c3raleigh.ning.com/page/our-history. (Accessed 10/01/2012.)

The above blurb helps us identify what C3 means by ‘plant’ when they say that Phil and Chris Pringle had “a vision to build 1,000 vibrant local churches”. The concept that is being articulated is similar to a seed. You plant a seed in the ground and it grows or builds up over time. Likewise, Pringle’s ‘vision’ gives people the idea that C3 plants a few people in a particular location and over time it grows or builds up to be a church. This concept is important for our readers to grasp.

Similar information is recorded on the C3 Winchcombe website:

“C3 Church Winchcombe is a part of C3 Church Global, an international movement of churches started by Ps. Phil and Christine Pringle, with a vision to build 1,000 vibrant local churches with an average membership of 500 by the year 2020.” – Let’s Introduce Ourselves, http://www.c3winchcombe.org.uk/about.html, Accessed 10/01/2012.

We can conclude that there is a template for other C3 churches to use on their websites, communicating that the Pringle’s want to plant and build 1,000 churches by the year 2020.

If we now go to the c3iglobal website we read the following,

“Our vision for C3 Church is to see 1000 Churches planted by the year 2020 with an average attendance of 500 members.” – 2020 Vision, C3 Church Global, http://c3churchglobal.com/cms/2020-vision. (Accessed 14/06/2013.)

Phil Pringle says in his personal bio on his very own C3 Church Oxford Falls website,

“My wife, Chris and I, with the kids and some good friends came to Sydney in 1980 to start a church. We had 13 people at our first service but the congregation grew rapidly and we moved buildings, bought land and built a school. We began planting churches around Sydney, then Australia, then the world; we now have close to 300 congregations in our movement. Our 2020 Vision is to plant and grow 1000 churches and we’re on target to meet this.” – About Phil & Chris Pringle, http://www2.myc3church.net/category/about-phil-chris-pringle, Accessed 30/07/2013. (Emphasis added.)

The C3ChurchGlobal website states:

“C3 Church is a place for life development. Our aim is to maximize people’s potential and help them live their best life.

Our vision is that the Church glows with the Glory of God, that men and women become disciples of Christ, and that they encounter the Presence of the Holy Spirit—they find LIFE!

This is an exciting time for C3 Church. We have a global view and perspective. We know who we are and where we’re going. Jesus said, “I will build my church.” The one Kingdom that will endure and has endured is the Kingdom of Jesus Christ. Our true north is the salvation of lost people.

We will continue to plant churches all over the world so God can be found and lives transformed for eternity. By the year 2020, we will see 1000 C3 Churches in cities all over the world.

This is our movement of awesome churches—C3 Church” – Our Story, About C3 Church, http://c3churchglobal.com/about-c3church, Accessed 30/07/2013. (Emphasis added.)

There is a lot of stuff that is wrong in the above statement which we will hopefully address in another article. However, it is emphasised again that Pringle wants to 1000 C3 Churches all over the world. His 2020 Vision is about PLANTING churches. Not rebranding churches, not converting a person who feels they have a church inside them.

Pringle has centered his C3 movement identity around the vision God gave him of ‘planting’ 1000 C3 Churches. If this is the vision God gave Pringle, you would expect Pringle to remain faithful to it right? Our next article will demonstrate that Pringle has been purposely deceptive about his 2020 Vision campaign.

We will end with what Phil Pringle says on his official Facebook page:

About

The official page for Phil Pringle.This page will not ask for any form of donation.If you receive a solicitation, pls contact rebekah.faith@myc3church.net

Biography

Phil Pringle is the Founder and President of C3 Church International, a global movement of over 240 churches, and the Senior Minister of C3 Church in Sydney Australia. Phil and his wife, Christine, started C3 Church in 1980 and it is now one of the fastest growing, exciting and powerful churches in Australia. An entire global movement of vibrant churches has been birthed as a result of Phil’s lead…ership and vision as he maintains an uncompromised passion to see cities changed by a contemporary, relevant and anointed church. Phil’s dynamic and relevant preaching has made him a much sought after speaker in both Christian and secular contexts, particularly in the areas of faith, leadership, ministry of the Holy Spirit, church building and kingdom principles of finance and giving.

My wife, Chris and I, with the kids and some good friends came to Sydney from New Zealand in 1980 to start a church. We had 13 people at our first service but the congregation grew rapidly and we moved buildings, bought land and built a school. We began planting churches around Sydney, then Australia, then the world; we now have close to 300 congregations in our movement. Our 2020 Vision is to plant and grow 1000 churches and we’re on target to meet this!

We’ve started C3 College for Ministry, Creative Arts and Counselling, as well as a television program and Oxford Falls Grammar School, all on around 25 acres at Oxford Falls.

I’ve always been passionate about the arts playing a major role in church to make her contemporary and relevant to the current world. Our Creative Arts stream has developed and graduated thousands of musicians, worship leaders, song writers, graphic artists, dancers, actors and film makers. I myself paint and exhibit around the world. I also love to write, so I’ve mixed these two elements together in books like Inspired to Pray, But God and 24 Hours That Saved The World – The Gospel of John in Art. My other books include Faith, Moving in the Spirit, Leadership Excellence, Financial Excellence, Leadership Files and You the Leader.

My great love is the local church. I believe she is the hope of our world today. When she functions in the power of the Holy Spirit and lives on the Word she will thrive. See you in Church!

Source: Phil Pringle: About, Facebook, https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/Phil-Pringle/181344135208983?id=181344135208983&sk=info, (Accessed 21/10/2013.) (Emphasis added.)

proof_facebook-pringlechurchlie_22-10-2013

Of Course Pringle Is Uh- Telling The- Uh- Truth About Kong Uh- Hee And Sun- Uh-Ho!

10 Thursday Oct 2013

Posted by in C3 & Pringles Associations, Pringle's Language

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We originally were going to publish a long-winded response to all the misleading and deceptive comments Phil Pringle made in the below transcript. However, we wish to frame the below transcript with the motivations of Sun Ho and the Cross Over project.

Pastor Sun Ho said the following about her music album release which featured her song China Wine:

“I’m really excited about this album, because I feel like it really represents me even though it’s in English.” [Source]

“Wyclef was so amazing! He would pick up his guitar and we started just writing the song and we call it “China Wine… I want to work with the choreographer to come up with “China Wine” dance steps and stuff. Seriously, I can’t wait to grow in America and I can’t wait for people to see me…” [Source]

Here is Pastor Sun Ho’s music video clip China Wine. Ask yourself this question, can you see this video clip convicting people of their sins and as a result. repent and turn to Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of their sins?

Keep this information in mind. 

On the 9th of June, Phil Pringle said the following (transcript below):

“Anyway – ah, when I’m in Singapore, generally Pastor Kong and Sun are not cos they are out, just ah, staying in the Asian Christian community preaching and – ah, making sure that everybody knows they’re still alive, ah- facing a lot of challenges, a lot of battles. A lot of people who um- you know have ah have ah – taking sides against them and- And ah- people just love to be critical. And you know, ah, there are times-ah with believers, I’m not sure if I care if they were right or wrong and- and in this case, this- this couple are the two of the most holy people I know. And I get convicted when I am around them. And I am a very holy person and ah – [audience laughs]. Anyway, I-I-I will ignore the fact that you laughed then. Amen! Ha ha ha!

So- ha ha hum! Uh- Just ask my wife how holy I- no don’t! And uh- yeah so- we um- anyway we were up there in ah- Singapore treading the wi- ONE OF THE THINGS- i- it’s a horrible if you are treading the wine press all on your own. And uh- to have some friends with you- even if, you know- uh- a- e- i- I like – I like the fact that Jesus stood with us even when we weren’t that great. I know most of you have- have been really great people all your life and done bad. But I’m glad he’s still with me anyway when I- met my moments of challenge and difficulty.

And even if you’re right, you know and ah- a- in- to- to be persecuted for that is a challenging thing.

Now this church is one of the greatest churches in the world. If I was to pick five great churches in the world, this would be one of them. In the whole world. This church is impacting nations, like taking the population ratio of Taiwan from two percent to ah- ten per cent oh- a- over a period of ten years. Ah- Astonishing results in many, many Christian- ah, in many, many ah- Asian nations in ah- Christian concerts that Sun was performing in, about a hundred and ah- ten concerts. In- In those she had about a hundred and forty thousand people come to Christ. So that was the purpose of um- them, as a church- ah- boosting that- ah – singing career. And ah- so anyway- ah- apart from all that fact, we are great friends of this church and are standing with them, seeing them ah- through this incredible challenge they are facing at present. And uh- they’ve had some good news in this last week, even though the pressure is still on- eh- eh- at an equal level. But I just wanted to play a little clip from last weekend when I was with him. Thanks guys!”

[Plays Video]

Amen! Well, the Pastor of that church is gonna be speakin’ at Presence Conference next week. Kong Hee. And the Advisory Pastor will also be speaking at that conference next week. Amen! So ah- it is going to be such an astonishing time. One of the reasons I show you that- just to get a visual of what this church is going to look like in a few years time amen! And ah- Presence will help us get to that place as we keep moving!

That’s one of seven services they have over a weekend. They also have Chinese and Indonesian services. Ah- but um- that one is actually the smaller of the two weekend services. Um- English speaking services. The night before is the Saturday night one which is the largest service during the week. And uh- that’s exciting though every time I get in amongst their great church and feel the power of their prayer life, their discipline and ah- and moving forward. And no wonder the- the devil has done everything he can to try and oppose them.

We’re gonna see revival around all the nations of the world, every tip where there’s a C3 Church- next week we are upgrading and going up a level, without any doubt at all.” – Phil Pringle, C3 Church Oxford Falls, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aiKrMwtZGSk.

To understand what happened prior to this transcript, please read the following article:

What Is Phil Pringle Trying To Hide? *Update 3* (03-07-2013)

And This Is How Pringle Restores Fallen ‘Pastor’ (And Prophet) Pat Mesiti?

08 Tuesday Jan 2013

Posted by in C3 & Pringles Associations, C3 Culture

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pringle mesiti and money

In a previous article, we posted a transcript that revealed Phil Pringle allowing Pat Mesiti to financially con people to give money to Phil Pringle’s ministry. In this con, we pointed out that Pat Mesiti misleads and manipulates people to part with their finances.

Phil Pringle & Pat Mesiti Conning C3 Church To Give Cash

Here is another transcript that further reveals Phil Pringle endorsing Money-Magnet Mesiti to preach on money again at C3 Church in 2006. This critique should highlight how dangerously cult-like the C3 Church movement really is. In this sermon, Mesiti mangles or misses the point of  every scripture. He even claims to speak on behalf of God, (thus elevating himself to the status of infallibility). At the very bottom is transcript. Below is the critique.

IT’S ABOUT MESITI GETTING YOUR MONEY

Below, Pat Mesiti was invited to do an offering talk. That means, Mesiti was invited up by Phil Pringle to financially manipulate people into giving. Mesiti does a brilliant job in selectively replacing the words of God to get people to give money.

Here are some examples.

SAMPLE 1: JESUS WANTS YOU TO DO WHAT HE SAYS: TITHE

Mesiti says, “Jesus said this, that if you love me, do what I say… In Malachi Chapter 3…”

Jesus in a number ways says in John 14, “If you love Me, you will keep My commandments”.

The difference is significant. By changing that one word, Mesiti has essentially:

1. taken Jesus’ statement out of context

2. turned Jesus’ statement around to apply something un-Christian so Mesiti can get Christians to do what he wants them to do.

Jesus says the above command FOUR times in this discourse, (John 14:15, 21, 23, 24). It becomes evident, that the disciples at that time had to hear Jesus’ instructions and teachings. Why? They were entrusted with his teachings and commands while he was on earth with them. The word for ‘keep’ in the original Greek in these four passages are tērēsete (14:15), tērōn (14:21), tērēsei (14:23) and  tērei (14:24). Each essentially meanin the same thing:  ‘to watch over, to guard’. Jesus was telling HIS disciples, “If you love me, you will WATCH OVER AND GUARD my commandments/teachings.”

In context, Jesus later explains (emphasis ours),

“Whoever does not love me does not keep my words (logous). And the word (logos) that you hear is not mine but the Father’s who sent me.

“These things I have spoken to you while I am still with you. But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, he will teach you all things and bring to your remembrance all that I have said to you.” John 14:24-26

This instruction was given to the Apostles not us. This is why the Apostles wrote  the gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke, John and their epistles. Pat Mesiti has twisted the words of Jesus for his own un-Christian agenda. Jesus did not say, “if you love me, do what I say” so Mesiti can preach that we are to tithe.

SAMPLE 2: MESITI CURSES CHRISTIANS AT C3

In Malachi 3:8, Mesiti chooses to say, “will a man restrict, will a man block God”. In his attempt to convince people that the tithe is grace orientated, Mesiti tries to convince people that to tithe is to unblock God’s grace. This is backwards Christianity. If a Christian is to work at unblocking God’s grace, then how can one receive grace in the first place?

If Mesiti is elevating the giving of the tithe to unblock God’s blessing/power over his people, than Mesiti’s god is an incompetent god. A powerless god that is dependent on our works. So how can Pat Mesiti say this?

“the tithe, literally is a sign that God is really Lord and master over all. That is the symbol of the tithe.”

To teach that we can UNBLOCK God in our lives through tithing and then teach that the “tithe, literally is a sign that God is really Lord and master over all,” is double speak or double mindedness. The tithe is NOT a Christian teaching. This is heresy. This is legalism.

Furthermore, Pat Mesiti reveals how conniving he actually is to get people to give money. He lets his listeners know that Christians have issues with the teaching of Malachi 3:8-10.

“Now some people might say, ‘yeah, that’s Old Testament that’s under law.'”

Rightly so. Mesiti later refers to Abraham’s tithe to Melchizedek prior to the Law, saying this proves that the tithe… is not of the Law? But Mesiti cannot have it both ways. You can’t convince an audience that people ate fish ten years ago by eating bananas. Similarly, Mesiti can’t preach the tithe under the Mosaic Law and then say it never was.

In regards to Abraham’s tithe, God blessed Abraham FIRST and Abraham tithed ONCE. Yet Mesiti is trying to con people to tithe FIRST and CONSTANTLY so they can UNBLOCK God to receive blessings from His hands. According to Mesiti it is the tithe, not God, that “brings you protection” and “opens up the windows of Heaven”.

Has Mesiti not read Malachi 3:8-11? Last time we checked it was GOD who opens the ‘windows of heaven’ and protects us by ‘rebuking the devourer’ not the tithe. (Emphasis ours.)

“Bring the full tithe into the storehouse, that there may be food in my house. And thereby put me to the test, says the LORD of hosts, if I will not open the windows of heaven for you and pour down for you a blessing until there is no more need. I will rebuke the devourer for you, so that it will not destroy the fruits of your soil, and your vine in the field shall not fail to bear, says the LORD of hosts.” Malachi 3:10-11

It should be clear that Mesiti can’t even read the bible let alone notice his eyes are not on God but on money. He seems convinced that tithing money into a poker-machine-god will result in unblocking the chambers and receiving it’s abundant cash flow and supernatural protection. In this instance, this scriptural rebuke from the Apostle Paul applies to ‘restored pastor’ Pat Mesiti AND Phil Pringle for peddling this shameful message. (Emphasis added.)

“You foolish [pastors]! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you [Pringle and Mesiti]: Did you receive the Spirit by observing the law, or by believing what you heard? Are you so foolish? After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing?” Galatians 3:1-4

This then makes us question what Pat Mesiti means when he says, “I want to see people saved.” As a ‘restored pastor’, how can he wish to see people saved if he has no idea what the foundation of Christianity is? He has done a better job cursing and condemning Christians using God’s Law than pointing believers to the saving work of Christ. Mesiti is either lying on stage or he has no idea what he is doing as a ‘restored pastor’ (thanks to Phil Pringle’s mentor-ship).

MESITI MISSING THE POINT

Even every single scripture Mesiti even refers to in this sermon, he misses the point completely. Mesiti says,

“God doesn’t get that concept [of ‘just enough’] …because wherever God does a miracle…listen to me church, the loaves and the fishes, there’ll be 12 baskets left over…for everybody.”

Unfortunately, that miracle wan’t their to demonstrate that “God doesn’t get that concept” of ‘just enough’. The Apostle John explains why he recorded the loaves and the fishes miracle.

“Now Jesus did many other signs in the presence of the disciples, which are not written in this book; but these are written so that you may believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God, and that by believing you may have life in his name.” John 20:30-31

pringle mesiti money scamMesiti also missed the point when he referred to the widow of Zarephath. She did not receive the blessing because she tithed or had a ‘God-is-more-then-‘just-enough’ mindset. In Hebrews 11 (the faith chapter), she is obscurely mentioned in verse 35. Hebrews teaches us that “By faith” “Women received back their dead, raised to life again.” This was a woman that put her faith in God through God’s famous prophet Elijah in ancient Israel. Her household was spared from death that fateful day. Later when her son did die, it was by faith that her son was raised from the dead. It wasn’t by works but by faith God favoured her. It was by God’s grace that Elijah was sent by God to her house. It wasn’t by works but by grace and faith she was saved. Mesiti teaches likewise.

From the bible’s perspective, Pat Mesiti is not at all qualified to be restored to be a pastor.

MESITI LIES ABOUT GOD AGAIN

Mesiti twisted the words of Jesus to guilt people into giving money to Phil Pringle and his C3 Organisation.

His constant misuse of scripture leads to this lie of a conclusion:

“We are bringing out tithes, the bible says, unto Jesus.”

This is a lie. The bible does NOT tell Christians to tithe to Jesus. Jesus never tithed. So Jesus could never have taught Christians to tithe. His Apostles never tithed. So His Apostles could never have taught Christians to tithe. How can the scriptures call us to imitate Paul, the way he imitated Christ, if neither of them tithed?

MESITI BLASPHEMING GOD

Pat Mesiti also revealed that the ‘Holy Spirit’ he heard was not of God:

“here’s what I believe the Holy Spirit spoke to my spirit about.

“Tell my people, I don’t understand the concept of ‘just enough’.””

Really? God spoke to Prophet Pat? Yet the Apostle Paul, who wrote much of the New Testament, taught this amazing truth from God to believers:

“For I do not mean that others should be eased and you burdened, but that as a matter of fairness your abundance at the present time should supply their need, so that their abundance may supply your need, that there may be fairness. As it is written, “Whoever gathered much had nothing left over, and whoever gathered little had no lack.”” 2 Corinthians 8:13-15

Isn’t it odd that Paul was thinking in advance AFTER the Corinths were to give money to the poor church in Jerusalem? Paul says that in the future, the Jerusalem church in their “their abundance may supply your [the Godly givers] need, that there may be fairness.” Fairness? According to Mesiti, they should have more than enough not “just enough”.

The above scripture portrays that Christians are to give freely to brothers so that all may have enough and vice versa. This then fulfills Paul’s use of the old testament scripture above. You will not find Paul teaching the church to tithe or to seek abundant material blessing. Nor will you see Paul teach that what you give, God will be unblocked to bless you back.

Furthermore, Paul says,

“I rejoiced in the Lord greatly that now at length you have revived your concern for me. You were indeed concerned for me, but you had no opportunity. Not that I am speaking of being in need, for I have learned in whatever situation I am to be content. I know how to be brought low, and I know how to abound. In any and every circumstance, I have learned the secret of facing plenty and hunger, abundance and need. I can do all things through him who strengthens me.” Philippians 4:10-13

How could Mesiti pit the Holy Spirit against the Holy Spirit who wrote the scriptures? It is of our opinion that Pat Mesiti is blatantly lying to the C3 Church members. How else could he say the following, speaking on God’s behalf?

“and God says ‘I’ll pour open Heaven’ ‘I don’t understand the concept of just…..I wanna pour out abundance.’ But don’t restrict Him.””

Either way, this is serious slander against the character and teaching of God and His Holy Spirit. Mesiti is restricting God by telling people they can restrict God if they don’t give C3 their money. Furthermore, by claiming that God spoke to him or that he was speaking on behalf of God is incredibly dangerous. The fact that he spoke lies against God while claiming he was hearing from God should have made Pringle stand up and tell Mesiti to sit down.

The scriptures say that people like Mesiti and Pringle “in their greed … will exploit you with false words.” The ASV says false teachers in their greed “with feigned words make merchandise of you.” Is this not an accurate desciption of what Mesiti and Pringle are doing?

Don’t you think it is evil that Phil Pringle has ‘restored’ Pat Mesiti back into ministry, yet allowed him to lie about God’s word and slander God’s character? All for the sake so people can give money to Pringle’s church? Why didn’t Phil Pringle stop Mesiti from preaching? Why did he put up with this and endorse this message?

There is much more we could have focused on in this transcript. After reading the transcript below, feel free to comment on other points we missed.

====================================================

Everybody say “10%”

Monday 02 October, 2006 – 15:10 by Hill$ong Squad in Default

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Christian City Church

Oxford Falls

Sunday 1 October 2006

10am service

Pastors Phil Pringle and Pat Mesiti

http://202.125.166.74/ramgen/ccc/01100610am.rm

(Phil Pringle) ….So now we’re going to receive our tithes and offerings ….so I want you to get ready to give.. this morning…and if you need an envelope because you use a credit card for giving.. just raise your hand ..otherwise on a newsletter, there’s a tear off strip…you can fill out your details on that. We have an EFTPOS machine up the back…of if you’re on the internet you can give through the web page there.. up on the right hand side..you’ll find an area there for giving.

I’m going to ask Pat Mesiti just to come and share around the offering this morning. Amen. Give Pat a big hand would ya? (applause) In fact next Sunday morning, I’ve asked Pat to preach here, he’s going to preach about reaching the world. Amen. God bless ya.

(Pat Mesiti) Amen church. You love the Lord? Oh good …(inaudible) You love the Lord? (‘Yeah’)

Jesus said an interesting thing in the bible. I’ll have to give you a little bit…what prompted that thought.

Little while ago I was talking to someone ..and they said…they said, ‘Pat, I’m a Christian.’

‘And so, well, how do you define if you are a Christian?’

And they said ‘well, you know, I kinda go to church.’

And I said, ‘well that’s really cool.’ But, people ..don’t read the bible say really dumb things. And you would agree with that.

Jesus said this, that if you love me, do what I say.

Obedience is really the sign that we are lovers of Jesus. Can I get an ‘Amen’? How many of you are married? Raise your hands.

How many of you husbands have learned to obey your wife? (laughter) We Italians have got it figured out. we say ‘the man is the head, but the woman is the neck that turns him around’. (laughter)

In Malachi Chapter 3, come with me to this awesome passage of scripture. Pastor Phil is a modern day revivalist, would you agree with that?

I really believe that….can we give our pastor a hand, he’s a modern day revivalist. (applause)

And one of the keys to the outpouring of heaven ….we’ve had a lot about prayer ..and today we’re gonna hear about something else and next Sunday I want to really share about getting the salt out of a shaker and making a difference in our world..and can you please bring friends.

I want to see people saved.

But here in Malachi Chapter 3…it shows us this incredible insight into opening up the windows of Heaven.

Not just prayer and telling people and acts of mercy, but God right here says this…he says ‘will a man rob God?’

Now the first thing is ..how do you take away from God?

It isn’t that we go to God ..and take that…because in actual fact, God really enjoys it when you take something of Him into your world.

When you take grace from His throne ..into your world…God enjoys it… can I get an Amen? (‘Amen’)

But here’s the concept…if you look at the Hebrew scripture …it is a picture of a goblet with a lid on it. And the way we rob God is we put a restriction on what God loves to do. Which is what? Blessing.

And it says, ‘will a man restrict, will a man block God.’

Here you say, how have you robbed me? And God says ‘in tithes and offerings’.

And then He says this, ‘Bring all the tithes into the storehouse.’ Everybody say ‘all the tithes’ (‘all the tithes’)

Everybody say ‘all the tithes’ (‘all the tithes’)

What is a tithe? Let me explain. The tithe…is 10 per cent. Everybody say ’10 per cent’ (’10 per cent’).

10 per cent.

God says, ‘Bring me what’s mine …bring me that 10 per cent.’ If you’re in a business deal…and someone said to you, ‘you know what….I’m going to let you keep 90 per cent, just give me 10, how many of you think that would be a great business deal?

And God says ’10 per cent’.

Now some people might say, ‘yeah, that’s Old Testament that’s under law.’ Oh, no, no, no, no.

This is pre-law, this is under the Malchizadek priesthood, who is a type of Jesus.

We are bringing out tithes, the bible says, unto Jesus.

10 per cent. Now why 10 per cent?

You see, if God set an amount, it would not be fair, correct? It wouldn’t be fair if God said ‘bring a thousand dollars to the storehouse every week.’ It wouldn’t be fair.

But God is a God who is a just and righteous God.

He said, ‘bring a percentage’, so that the person who’s earning a thousand dollars a week or a hundred thousand dollars a week …I had a gentleman in Malaysia one day say to me this…he said ‘if I bring my tithe to the church every week’ …he said (inaudible) …he said ‘I’d have to be bringing ten thousand dollars a week into the tithe’.

And I said ‘would you like me to pray that you only have to give a hundred dollars a week’? (laughter)

It’s all relevant. Say ‘Amen or ouch’.

See, and here it is, it’s not my tithe, language is so important, it’s His tithe, and the tithe, literally is a sign that God is really Lord and master over all. That is the symbol of the tithe.

Three things it does to you, it brings you protection.

Second thing it does, it opens up the windows of Heaven.

Listen to what it says here. Look at this church.

‘If I will not open up for you the windows of Heaven and pour out for you such a blessing, there will not be room enough to receive it.’

You know as I was driving to church this morning, I always try and prepare my spirit for the offering message, just in case.

I always say honestly every Sunday when I’m in church …I always do ..because…I know Pastor Phil.

But you know I was just preparing my heart, and I said, ‘Lord, if I were to do the offering this morning, what could I say that would encourage people?

And here’s what I believe the Holy Spirit spoke to my spirit about.

“Tell my people, I don’t understand the concept of ‘just enough’.”

God doesn’t get that concept …because wherever God does a miracle…listen to me church, the loaves and the fishes, there’ll be 12 baskets left over…for everybody.

When he taught out from the widow’s miracle ..of the widow’s oil …there..they filled the jars ..and there was so much there…she could have kept pouring today if she was alive. What an amazing thing.

When God does it, He’s a God of more than enough, his name is El Shaddai, the God of plenty, not El Cheapo, the Lord, the Tightwad. (laughter)

How many of you thank God for that?

And I want us to understand that this morning.

Let’s bring all the tithes, not half of it, a quarter of it, all the tithes ..and God says ‘I’ll pour open Heaven’

‘I don’t understand the concept of just…..I wanna pour out abundance.’ But don’t restrict Him.

Father, we thank you for our ability to be able to give to you. I thank you for this House, I thank you for what you’re doing. I thank this House, your building, we’re working with you.

Lord I ask you to bless every tither, every obedient tither …as they bring your store out of every offering, in Jesus’ name.

If you need an envelope this morning, please raise your hand.

If you want to give by credit card, at the back of the room there is an EFTPOS machine there, if you’d like to give through EFTPOS machine.

If you’re writing out a cheque, please make it payable to Christian City Church.

God bless you church as you give.”

Length of offering sermon..7:05min

Source: Hill$ong Squad, Everybody say “10%”, http://hillsong.bigblog.com.au/post.do?id=75194, 02/10/2006. (Accessed 14/11/2011.) *Cached link: http://web.archive.org/web/20070430064824/http://hillsong.bigblog.com.au/post.do?id=75194.

Phil Pringle & Pat Mesiti Conning C3 Church To Give Cash

02 Wednesday Jan 2013

Posted by in C3 & Pringles Associations

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If a leader or teacher is misleading a congregation to tithe, this should inform you that they are either:

1. A false teacher. Or

2. an unqualified teacher.

Pat Mesiti and Phil Pringle can fall under either category.

At the bottom of this article is an old transcript of Phil Pringle allowing Pat Mesiti to con people to give money to Pringle’s organisation. Pringle allowed Mesiti to  manipulate people to give money to Pringle. Pringle did not correct Mesiti’s content or conduct. He allowed Mesiti to mangle many scriptures and have him use greed and fear to convince people to give up their cash to Pringle. In the process, Pat Mesiti publicly misled the members of Christian City Church.

MESITI’s MISLEADS

Mislead 1: The Statement God Never Made

“… God said to Adam and Eve, he said ‘you can have any tree you want, except that one there, that’s mine.’”

God said that? We encourage you to read Genesis 2 and 3. This is blasphemy. Phil Pringle and Pat Mesiti had no problem lying about God. God said nothing about the tree of Knowledge of Good and Evil being His in Genesis. They made this up to convince people to give them their cash.

Mislead 2: Mesiti Witnesses Against His Own False Theology

Later, Mesiti says (emphasis ours):

“Little while ago I was speaking at a church, this was quite awhile ago actually ….(laughter)….we won’t go there…..anyway….”

He is alluding to Hillsong. The fact that he was speaking at Hillsong tells us this was before his fall, (hence why he does not talk about it). Mesiti then slips this (emphasis ours):

“And I get there and the worship’s going on …and then they receive the offering…and the Holy Spirit says to me…”I want you to take that 2 and a half thousand dollar cheque and put it in the offering”….and I said ‘Lord, this is all I’ve got’.

All Mesiti has got? In slipping this, he has undone all that he is trying to do: convince C3 Church members that they need to give money to God so “your barns will be full.” How can he teach that God wants people to give him cash so he can bless them financially back? He isn’t practicing what he is preaching. Why did he have no money? He continues…

“Within a month’s time …I was at a meeting..and a man came up to me and said….’this is not for the ministry….this is not for any of the ministries you’re involved with …this cheque is for you…and he gave me a cheque for $25,000 US….”

Is this simply band aid cash before he was publicly exposed visiting prostitutes? His heavily edited and faulty account only proves he is a false witness to his own false theology. In fact, when you read the entire script below, he exposes his own false theology.

Mislead 3: Teaching The Bible Says Something When It Doesn’t

Pat Mesiti later said:

“We’re the pearl of great price. God never argued….Jesus never debated the issue. He just did it. And we in turn are asked to value something. One of those things we’re asked to value…is the House of God.”

We need to understand that the Bible talks about the House of God being Christ and His Church (the church being the people). Not so with Pringle and Mesiti. They often define the ‘House of God’ being the building.

Not only does Mesiti force people not to question his teaching by forcing obedience on them, Mesiti and Pringle provide the illusion that God or the bible says “we’re asked to value… the House of God.”

Really?

You will not find this teaching in the bible that we are to value a physical building known as a ‘House of God’. This is another lie to get Christians to give money to Phil Pringle’s organisation.

THE FLATTERY

Mesiti flattered Pringle before the C3 congregation. Notice how Mesiti links the favour of God to Phil Pringle’s apparent material success. Is this how a Christian measures God’s grace?

“You know, Pastor Phil being number one on the podcast does not surprise me, because how many know the favour of God is on this man of God? Can you give me a good ‘amen’?”

Mesiti acknowledges how much Pringle’s teaching impacted him and his life, mangling Psalm 133 in the process. So much so, he seems to link Pringle as a Messianic figure.

“… After being under his teaching – under his ministry, means the favour of God is on us, because whatever falls on his beard, the oil (PP: “ooh!”) coming down from the beard of our Lord, did you like that? (PP “more oil, more beard”).”

The favour of God is on Pat Mesiti because he was under the teaching of Phil Pringle (and Pringle’s oily Messianic beard)? Pringle did not correct this bible garble.

THE GREED

Mesiti also mangled the scripture Proverbs 3:9. Mesiti said,

“I’m going to ask you to honour the Lord, value the Lord with your offering, and bring the Lord his firstfruits… your barns will be full.”

This is biblical incompetence on Mesiti’s part. Proverbs is written to Jews who were under the ordinances of God. If they obeyed the commandments of God, God would indeed materially bless them as a nation. If they didn’t, He would curse them. However, Mesiti’s use of this passage is inciting people to give money so they can get. This is the greed factor that prosperity preachers often use to motivate people to give money to them. Pringle did not correct this bible garble.

THE FEAR-MONGERING

The church is grafted into the promises of Israel revealed in Christ – but the Church is not Israel. The Law was designed to point out to Israel the fact that none can fulfill it’s requirements. Only one man perfectly honoured the Lord and His Laws and that was Jesus. What Jesus accomplished was far greater than material success. Jesus did not promise believers material blessings but something greater: eternal life.

Because Christ freely gave Himself, so we can freely receive His salvation, we are called to freely give NOT OUT OF COMPULSION. Scripture clearly calls us to give cheerfully through what He has done on our behalf. (2 Corinthians 9:7.) 

Instead of allowing the gospel being the motivating factor, Mesiti binds and curses the congregation by placing them under the death and condemnation of the Law, offering no freedom in Christ. By reading a portion of Malachi 3 telling Christians to tithe, the association is connected to the fact that if one does not tithe, the believer is cursed. This is not Christianity and is a false theology that destroys people. Pringle did not correct this bible mis-application.

THE DECEITFULNESS OF PAT MESITI AND PHIL PRINGLE

In closing, Pringle endorses the teaching and mentions this in his prayer to his ‘god’,

“People who have got debts they can’t manage…are gonna find ways out of it. But Lord the foundation of your prosperity in our life…is the tithe. So father as we bring this sacred finance to you …we thank you Lord that it unleashes power and principles into our world that are unstoppable.”

Sacred finance? This is Pringle’s god and not Christ. What Pringle calls “sacred finance”, Jesus opposes saying, “The deceitfulness of riches choke the Word” (Matt 13:22). According to Pringle, these “sacred finances… unleashes power and principles into our world that are unstoppable”. Really? And the bible says that where?

According to Pringle the monetary tithe is “the foundation of your prosperity in our life”. To pray such a thing to a God is disgraceful. At least Pringle is honest that Jesus is not his foundation.

In the end, did Pat Mesiti message on money choke the Word? Yes it did. Did Pringle endorse Mesiti’s unbiblical teachings that choked God’s Word? Yes he did. With this in mind, it is best to know not to trust Pat Mesiti or Phil Pringle when there is a bible in front of them. They are not qualified to preach.

Below is the full transcript of the giving sermon.

Everybody say ‘firstfruits’ (firstfruits)

Wednesday 30 August, 2006 – 17:30 by Hill$ong Squad in Default

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(Phil Pringle) “We are going to receive our tithe and offering right now, as everybody could get ready to give.

Pat Mesiti is going to come and encourage us with our giving this morning. Thank you very much Pat. God bless you.

(Pat Mesiti) Morning church. (Good morning) Are you excited? (yeah)

You know, Pastor Phil being number one on the podcast does not surprise me, because how many know the favour of God is on this man of God? Can you give me a good ‘amen’?

And you know, after being under his teaching – under his ministry, means the favour of God is on us, because whatever falls on his beard, the oil (PP: “ooh!”) coming down from the beard of our Lord, did you like that? (PP “more oil, more beard”).

I was thinking of growing my moustache, but I’d look too much like my mum. (PP:laughter) and my mum wouldn’t really approve.

Turn to the Word now, now that I’ve got your attention.

Church, if you need an offering envelope, please raise your hand.

If you’re giving by credit card – before you fill anything out, can you just let me share for 2 or 3 minutes from the Word of God, because we can just go through the same old motions, you know, of oh, this is my tithe; I’ll just write it out…

And you know, if you want something (inaudible) God before, you’ve got to do something you haven’t done before.

And….that’s how I’ve worked.

And I want to read a passage of scripture from Proverbs Chapter 3:9….it says this…

Honour the Lord….can you all say that with me ‘honour the Lord’ (honour the Lord) with your possessions (with your possessions) ..and the firstfruits (and the firstfruits) of all your increase (of all your increase) …..don’t repeat everything or we’ll be here all day.

But honour the Lord, that literally can be translated there to mean this… value the Lord with your possessions. (PP:’wow’).

Now that’s not talking about the tithe; we get to that in the next portion.

But value the Lord, do you value, do I value the Lord?

You see, I’ve discovered in life that one of the principles of life is this. You can tell how much you value something by the price you’re willing to pay. (PP: ‘that’s the truth’)

So to the guy who says to the girl, ‘honey, I’ll climb the highest mountain, swim the deepest ocean, cross raging rivers, but if it’s raining on Sunday can you get your own way to the restaurant.’

Doesn’t really value.

And then I’ve discovered this about value, that in the absense of value, you’ll always argue price.

When you value something you don’t argue over price, you see, the Lord never argued the price of what it would cost to redeem our soul.

And we are here as recipients of God’s value towards us.

We’re the pearl of great price. God never argued….Jesus never debated the issue. He just did it.

And we in turn are asked to value something.

One of those things we’re asked to value…is the House of God.

Can I get an ‘amen’?

And God says in His Word; He says ‘bring the whole tithe’.

Notice it doesn’t say ‘give the tithe’. It says ‘bring it’.

Because, this may be a shock, but titheing isn’t giving; you can’t give back to God, what’s already His.

You can only take it from him.

And you see, there are some things that God has reserved for Himself, which brings us to the second portion, that says…’and with the firstfruits, ‘everybody say ‘firstfruits’ (firstfruits) …that’s the first portion…it goes way back, way back, way back into Genesis.

This is not law, this is Genesis. This is pre-law, where we get the covenant of marriage from.

And God says ‘honour me…bring to me…the firstfruits…the first portion…the tithe.’

I’ve often wondered, when I’ve read the book of Genesis; when God said to Adam and Eve, he said ‘you can have any tree you want, except that one there, that’s mine.’

I wonder if there was ten trees in the garden.

Folks this morning…I’m going to ask you to honour the Lord, value the Lord with your offering, and bring the Lord his firstfruits, and watch this, here’s what he says……everybody say ’so’ (so) …so your barns will be full.

A little while ago……..how many of you liked that bit in the scriptures?

You see God never asks you to give something where he doesn’t fall back. God is El Sheddai, the God of plenty, not El Cheapo the Lord, the tightwad…

Amen?

Little while ago I was speaking at a church, this was quite awhile ago actually ….(laughter)….we won’t go there…..anyway….

But I remember I was speaking at a church and I received a cheque from a corporate function I spoke at …and the Lord said to me…”I want you to put that in the offering tonight”.

And I went….’but I’ve already tithed and I’ve already given to the building fund ..and I need this’.

And God says ..”well, I need it too”.

And I’m arguing with God and then I got to church late, hoping that the offering would be over with….(laughter).

Don’t laugh at me…some of you do that…

And I get there and the worship’s going on …and then they receive the offering…and the Holy Spirit says to me…”I want you to take that 2 and a half thousand dollar cheque and put it in the offering”….and I said ‘Lord, this is all I’ve got’.

And God said….”well, that’s all you’re gonna have”

He said…”now you have an option……you can keep what’s in your hand..and I’ll keep what’s in mine….or you can let go of what’s in your hand..and I’ll let go of what’s in mine.”

(PP:’powerful’)

Within a month’s time …I was at a meeting..and a man came up to me and said….’this is not for the ministry….this is not for any of the ministries you’re involved with …this cheque is for you…and he gave me a cheque for $25,000 US….

So I got 100 fold ….and the exchange rate…..(PP:’amen) (applause)

Come on church…let’s receive our tithes. I’m gonna hand over to Pastor Phil ..to pray over the offering.

Let’s be generous this morning. Let’s bring our tithe..and let’s bring our first fruits to the Lord. Pastor Phil?

(Phil Pringle) Wonderful, thank you sir, God bless you. Amen. Folks let me pray for you…while you bring your tithes and your offering to the Lord.

Father, we thank you right now as we stand here. People who are trying to buy their homes in Sydney, feeling that the prices are high ….are going to find very real opportunities…for them to break through into a whole new era of living.

People who have got debts they can’t manage…are gonna find ways out of it.

People who are having arguments in their houses over money issues….

Father…you’ll bring solutions.

People will find their way to manage their finances better.

But Lord the foundation of your prosperity in our life…is the tithe.

The opening of windows over our lives…the opening of opportunities and blessing comes from what we’re doing right now.

So father as we bring this sacred finance to you … we thank you Lord that it unleashes power and principles into our world that are unstoppable.

So thank you for the blessing Father on every gift given right now in Jesus’ name..and everybody said ‘amen’.

God bless as you give folks.

Go ahead ushers, thank you.

If you’re on the internet ..watching today …you can go to the upper right hand corner of your web page and you’ll find a giving area.

And those of you who use the EFTPOS machine…you’re welcome to do so at the end of the service.

If you needed an envelope for your giving…because you didn’t have a newsletter….there’s a tear-off section on that you can get…but if you need an envelope…please make sure you get a hold of one….to fill out the details of your credit card if you’re using a credit card for giving.

Thank you.”

Length of offering talk – 7:50 min.

Source: By Hill$ong Squad, Everybody say ‘firstfruits’ (firstfruits), http://hillsong.bigblog.com.au/post.do?id=65489, 30/08/2006. (Accessed 14/11/2011.) *Cached link: http://web.archive.org/web/20070502235421/http://hillsong.bigblog.com.au/post.do?id=65489.

NOTE: SCREEN GRAB WAS TAKEN ON THE 14/11/2011.

Resurrection Rort (Part 2)

09 Wednesday May 2012

Posted by in Church Sermons, Pringle's Beliefs, Pringle's Doctrine/Gospel, Pringle's Jesus, Pringle's Language, Pringle's Methods

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Don’t forget that Pringle denies preaching any other message than Jesus Christ and says he doesn’t preach a prosperity gospel.

Transcripts will be coming for both giving sermons. Here is the video.

Pringle’s Resurrection Rort (Part 1)

01 Tuesday May 2012

Posted by in C3 Scripture Handling, Church Sermons, Pringle's Behaviour, Pringle's Doctrine/Gospel

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Pringle protests that he doesn’t preach the prosperity gospel.

We’ve documented Pringle saying that Jesus died to make people rich. But did you know Pringle also teaches that Jesus was also buried and resurrected to make you rich? Phil Pringle gave this giving sermon on Resurrection Sunday 2012.

He teaches people again to sow money so they can grow money trees (1:36). Using a seed packet analogy, he contradicts the scripture Hebrews 11:1 he used at the start of his talk (2:35 and 3:07). He goes on to say,

“If He [Jesus] can beat death, he can beat the GFC. If He can beat death, He can beat any debts you’ve got in your world. All you gotta know is that it takes the sowing of a seed.” (3:56)

Pringle turns Christ’s death and resurrection into a financial principle in how to get money:

“The reason you and I are here this morning is because one seed was sown and one human life died in the ground and it’s risen again. That exact same principle applies to our giving here this morning. God has such a longing in his heart to bless you.” (4:19)

Finally, Phil Pringle encourages his members to give money as follows:

“And so right now, why don’t you and I get involved in a resurrection offering? A victorious offering! One that rises from the dead! You might say, ‘My finances are dead’. Well, here’s a moment to resurrect them. Here’s an opportunity to take the hold of a principle that God’s put in our hands.” (4:41)

This is not a biblical teaching and is completely disregarding the importance of Christ’s resurrection. Apostle Paul said,

“I want to know Christ and the power of his resurrection and the fellowship of sharing in his sufferings, becoming like him in his death,” Philippians 3:10

Pringle clearly wants to know a Jesus and the principles of the resurrection so he can get money. 

Pringle also teaches that money is Christ-like. In fact, it is probably safe to say that Pringle has great difficulty separating Jesus from filthy lucre. As his quote above teaches us: money dies, money becomes victorious and money rises from the dead.

Finally, Pringle prays to God in regards to this offering, “your ways are not our ways”. Who is Phil Pringle trying to deceive here? How is this God’s way? Does God really care about us acknowledging a principle that resurrects our finances? Or does God care about the way His Word is handled?

Please pray for those caught in this movement.

NOTE: SCREEN GRABS WERE TAKEN BEFORE 01/05/2012.

Who Is The Liar? Phil Pringle Or God?

29 Sunday Apr 2012

Posted by in Church Sermons, Pringle's Behaviour, Pringle's Beliefs, Pringle's Methods

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The scriptures say,

“You foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? Before your very eyes Jesus Christ was clearly portrayed as crucified. I would like to learn just one thing from you… After beginning with the Spirit, are you now trying to attain your goal by human effort? Have you suffered so much for nothing—if it really was for nothing?” Galatians 3:1-4, NASB

“But now that you know God—or rather are known by God—how is it that you are turning back to those weak and miserable principles? Do you wish to be enslaved by them all over again?” Galatians 4:9, NASB

“Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.You who are trying to be justified by law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.But by faith we eagerly await through the Spirit the righteousness for which we hope.For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth? That kind of persuasion does not come from the one who calls you. “A little yeast works through the whole batch of dough.” I am confident in the Lord that you will take no other view. The one who is throwing you into confusion will pay the penalty, whoever he may be.” Galatians 5:2-10, NASB

The scriptures also say,

“He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,” Titus 3:5, NASB, (Emphasis mine)

Before Pringle ‘lovingly’ bashes his critics (7:22), Pringle once again teaches people at C3 they can earn God’s grace by works. More specifically – if you give money, God gives you access to ‘grace’.

“And as you and I become givers in the kingdom of God, we’re gonna find ourselves accessing this grace. This unbelievable, inexhaustible, unending grace of God. Empowering you to have an abundance for every good work.” (6:57)

Click the time link above to see him make that specific comment or watch him say it in it’s proper context below.

You would have noticed C3 had plastered behind Phil Pringle this ‘scripture’:

“He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.” Titus 3:5

Was this orchestrated? Was this a coincidence? We can conclude it is very convenient for the scripture to be edited the way it was so Pringle could peddle this false doctrine that clearly contradicted the edited scripture. How is the moral and honest behaviour? Is this not leading people away from fundamental Christianity?

EDIT 05/05/2012: On the 4th of May, Phil Pringle twittered that his “media guys” had put something together to help with his message this coming weekend.

http://twitter.com/#!/philpringle/status/198306016620838912

This is insightful for us to understand what goes on behind the scenes. It seems safe to say that Phil Pringle endorses the content in regards to what his “media guys” present in his sermons. With this in mind, it is highly likely that Phil Pringle gave them the distorted Titus 3:5 scripture that read, “He saved us through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit”.