Tag Archives: meeting

“For nothing is hidden that will not be made manifest…” (Part 1)

26 Saturday Jul 2014

Posted by in C3 & Pringles Associations

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Ps Kong Hee and Ps Phil Pringle

“… nor is anything secret that will not be known and come to light.” – Jesus, Luke 8:17

INFORMATION PRINGLE DOES NOT WANT LEAKED TO THE MEDIA…

On the 9th of June in a Sunday morning service last year, Phil Pringle blacked out his stage cameras to report on issues regarding the Kong Hee scandal. C3 members leaked information to C3 Church Watch as to what Pringle said in the media black out.

What Is Phil Pringle Trying To Hide? *Update 3* (03-07-2013)

Last year we had Phil Pringle request his church attend a private Tuesday night meeting after the typical C3 prayer meeting. He made the below announcement on Sunday morning, the 3rd of November, 2013.

Is Pringle Distancing Himself From Kong Hee & Sun Ho?

How did we come across this Tuesday night meeting? C3CW only found about this meeting when their readership spiked the week after the meeting happened. So they decided to tune into the previous week’s online sermon to see what Phil Pringle might have said about them. Whatever was said at that Tuesday night meeting caused C3 leaders and members to come visit the C3CW website. As a result of this meeting, people have since talked to C3 Church Watch as to what was said by Phil Pringle.

They informed C3CW that Pringle mentioned their website by name and they disclosed other information as to what was said at that meeting. C3CW were also informed by C3 people as to what was said in that meeting about Kong Hee. They have started to question how involved Pringle was with Kong Hee’s issues. According to some of these sources, Pringle appeared to be distancing himself from the conduct of Kong Hee’s approach to the building fund. C3CW also received a loose transcript from what was said at that meeting from someone else who attended. That C3 member attempted to recount what Pringle said about their correspondence with Kong Hee:

PP: Don’t do anything illegal.

KH: That’s alright. We can do that in Singapore.

PP: You couldn’t do [any of?] that in Sydney. You couldn’t take money out of the building fund.

After analysing the various discussions, C3CW were able to confirm that these numerous C3 members statements were saying very similar things.

OUR CONCERNS

And now I am expressing my concerns as a C3 member about C3 Leaders and what was said in that Tuesday night meeting.

There is no transparency at C3.

Ask yourself this question: whose names are C3 properties registered in? Is it in Phil Pringle’s name or some special entity which Phil Pringle and his closest associates totally control? After all it’s the church members who have financed the properties with their giving over many years. As yet C3 members have no idea how the ownership of the assets of the church are structured. Phil Pringle late last year after a Tuesday night Prayer meeting  at the Connect Leaders meeting (held immediately after the Prayer Meeting), said in that meeting that he would be releasing the Church Financial accounts to members in early 2014. Absolutely nothing has been released to date. I think he is hoping all those present have forgotten the statement he made about Church accounts. Again just spin and misleading statements from Phil Pringle. The C3 property and financial structure issue needs to be investigated and may even be worth approaching some journos to fully investigate these matters.

Phil Pringle again at that Connect Group Leaders meeting in my opinion, basically misled church leaders about the CHC/Kong Hee legal case.

WHAT ELSE WAS SAID ON THAT TUESDAY NIGHT MEETING?

At  that Tuesday night meeting on the 5th of November, Phil Pringle talked about his involvement with Kong Hee in Singapore.

From memory Phil Pringle said that he told Kong Hee that C3 would not be allowed to do what CHC did regarding the crossover project from the  C3 building fund. I think he also talked about the Singapore governments persecution against Kong Hee.

I believe Phil Pringle was making a connection to the C3 building fund. From memory Phil Pringle said to Kong Hee that in Australia, C3 could not use their Building fund to do something like the crossover project that Kong Hee was doing. From memory, I think Pringle said that Kong Hee was asking him for advice on what Kong Hee was planning to do regarding crossover. I think Pringle then said that Kong Hee then decided to move forward with the Crossover project, even though Pringle said they couldn’t do anything like that in Australia. I am pretty sure it was not recorded as Phil Pringle said all this after a Tuesday night prayer meeting (which carried over then into a connect group leaders meeting where he said these things).

WHAT ELSE IS GOING ON IN C3 LEADERSHIP?

I know that when some C3 pastors are asked about Kong Hee or Yonggi Cho, they usually plead ignorance, or they say they don’t know much about what is going on. However I think they have been instructed to plead ignorance or spin the official C3 church line when confronted by questions from C3 members. I know this has happened to church members. Furthermore, Phil Pringle has told Church members not to look at C3 Churchwatch on the net.

I  am sure some C3 Church Pastors do believe in Transparency, and Governance.  Pastors and numerous members are fully aware of the global press articles on the Yonggi Cho Korean situation and the CHC Singapore court case. News globally these days over the internet is available instantaneously.  I believe there is some underground disapproval of what is happening in the Singapore and Korean situations within the C3 Church community.

CONCLUSION

What continually gets to me is the lack of transparency and governance of Phil Pringle. My pastor’s mentor Yonggi Cho has been convicted for mishandling church funds. My pastor’s underling, Kong Hee, copied my pastor’s Building Fund program and is now in trouble over how he has handled building fund money. And now Phil Pringle is saying that Kong Hee’s Building fund is done in a different way to his own? Are we to believe him at face value?

It was Phil Pringle that said,

“Kong Hee in Singapore picked up [my] idea and he calls his ‘Rise and Build’ and just takes the whole thing, copies it exactly and raises sixty million US for- and he paid it debt free for his building there in- in Singapore”. [Source]

Don’t forget this comment from Kong Hee:

“Ah- I thought I’m gonna show you a video. This is our ‘Rise and Build’ video and- Many people come to City Harvest Church and they look at our church. Look at our pulpit. Our Rise and Build. And they say, “Hey! Why is it that in Australia they kinda copy after you?”Well actually we came here and copied everything from Christian City Church. So we have our own Rise and Build and I just thought I show you this latest installment where we anounced to our church, SunTec City Convention Center.” – Kong hee, C3 Presence Conference, Session 4, Sydney, 2010. [Source]

I would like to point out some interesting articles that establish that the C3 financial structures within it’s movement aren’t that ethical (I will publish this article soon). Still Phil Pringle urges us to trust him? He needs to prove he can be transparent first.

Chew On This: CHC’s Recent Statement Regarding Departure Of Charged Member

24 Monday Jun 2013

Posted by in C3 & Pringles Associations

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News recently broke of Chew Eng Han. He is one of six members charged for mishandling church funds of up to US$40 million. He has decided to step down from his position at City Harvest Church. You can read his farewell and CHC’s reponse in our article here:

CHC Farewells Charged Member Chew Eng Han

Things are getting interesting. Chew Eng Han has responded to CHC’s statement. He writes,

Chew Eng Han’s response to CHC’s statement

In response to CHC’s Board’s response to my Personal Statement on my departure from CHC, the following are my replies:

1. Firstly I refer to the para which states:

“While we do not understand the reasons for his current sentiments, we wish nothing but the best for Eng Han and his family, and thank him for all his contributions.”

My query to the Board is whether they have been made aware of a four and a half hour meeting between Pastor Kong, Sun, myself and my wife? Are they also aware of some of the issues which I raised and whether there were sincere corrective actions taken since that meeting 3 months ago?

2. Secondly I refer to the para which states:

“The Board knows and believes that the senior leadership has always walked in integrity, adhering to Biblical principles through the leading of the Holy Spirit. We maintain our full confidence in the leadership.”

My query is how many of the board members made a conscious effort to read the COC Inquiry Report which was made accessible to them? And if they did, was then a diligent internal inquiry held in-house, to determine if there was any wrongdoing on the part of the alleged wrongdoers? Has the board done an inquiry on the issues named by COC, and satisfied itself fully that there has been no compromise of integrity? If the board has not done so, it cannot state that it knows and believes in the integrity of the senior leadership.

3. The board is probably unaware of many other issues, especially those on the pastoral angle, in terms of the manner of conduct of some of their pastors and senior leaders.  Without such information, it is not equipped to issue a board statement of confidence.

The church statement is a mere attempt to unite the church with a spiritual tone, but lacks substance in dealing with the real issues of truth and integrity.

Dated 22 June 2013

Source: Chew Eng Han, Chew Eng Han’s response to CHC’s statement, http://mrslightnfriends.com/chew-eng-hans-response-to-chcs-statement, 22/06/2013. (Accessed 24/06/2013.)

 

Does All Scripture Point To Mark Kelsey And C3 Leaders?

28 Tuesday Feb 2012

Posted by in C3 Culture, C3 Ministry, C3 Spirituallity, C3 Teaching, C3 Values

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EXEGESIS, EISEGESIS & NARCIGESIS

When a pastor teaches the congregation, they are meant to use exegesis.

A basic definition of ‘exegesis‘ is a, ‘Critical explanation or interpretation of a text, esp. of scripture.’1

This is the correct way to handle scripture. However, eisegesis was a very popular method used by pastors to approach the scriptures.

A basic definition of ‘eisegesis‘ is a, ‘personal interpretation of a text (especially of the Bible) using your own ideas.’2

This is an incorrect way to handle scriptures.

A basic definition of ‘narcissism‘ is ‘Extreme selfishness, with a grandiose view of one’s own talents and a craving for admiration’.3

When you combine a narcisistic pastor using eisegetical methods you get Furt- a pastor who reads themselves into biblical passages. For example, they are to be a King David conquering giants. They are a Moses, leading the people. They are Solomon bringing the glory of God through their wisdom and expansion of the House of God. This is now becoming known as ‘narcigesis‘. No pastor should use the bible to exalt themselves.

ALL SCRIPTURE POINTS TO JESUS

Jesus said,

“You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!” John 5:39

By reading ourselves into the text, we replace Christ with ourselves. To do this is to be antiChrist-like. John MacArthur says,

“The spirit of Antichrist has always been in the world. It has manifested itself both in open opposition to Christ and in subtle attempts to replace Christ.”4

The term Antichrist is explained in Vines Expository Dictionary,

“Antichrist: can mean either “against Christ” or “instead of Christ,” or perhaps, combining the two, “one who, assuming the guise of Christ, opposes Christ” (Westcott). The word is found only in John’s epistles”

This is what makes pastors, teachers or leaders who practice narcigesis dangerous. If pastors  are reading themselves or their audience into the biblical text, they are reinforcing the belief that scriptures point to themselves, “instead of Christ”. We have seen Phil Pringle also replace God the Father with himself and Jesus with money. See articles:

C3 Giving Sermon Transcript: Just Another Manic Sunday

“Let Me Just Talk To You Out Of A Scripture” – Pringle’s Use of John 3:16

To quote Pringle from the articles:

“When it says ‘God so loved the world’, we need to put ourselves in there and say, ‘I so love the world, that I will give the only begotten son’. And for us to actually achieve that, to spread the Word of God around the world; to plant churches, make disciples, empower saints, build bible colleges- all of it is done through your giving.”

And again:

“We will so love the world that we will give sacrificially”.

In other words, his narcigetical interpretation of the text is, “For I so loved the world that I gave my finances sacrificially.” He would not be that bold to say something so obviously wrong. However, that is what Pringle was essentially saying.

Scriptures say,

“… This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son.” 1 John 2:22

John 3:16 is a fantastic verse that teaches that the Father sent his Son so that we may believe in Him to have eternal life. Pringle denied this passage to speak alone on eternal life given to us by the Father and Son. He denied people access to the gospel. He denied people access to the Way of Salvation through the Father and Son. Instead he pointed a different direction to his congregation – self and money.

This is a good example why narcigesis is dangerous. Unfortunately, Executive Pastor Mark Kelsey took it one step further.

IF ONLY THIS WAS APRIL 1ST…

On the 1st of June 2011, Mark Kelsey spoke at the C3 Church Sydney Leaders Meeting.

“… And then Isaiah 61 sees Jesus walk into the temple. And goes, ‘Oo! Could be my day!’ He sees the scroll handed to the son of God. He sees him unfold it. He’s going, ‘Isaiah sixty one. Isaiah sixty – sixty one! One! One!”

And He, Jesus starts to read it. And He said, “Today this scripture’s fulfilled in your hearings.” Suddenly that scripture was fulfilled. You see, even Jesus found his identity in the word of God. Even Jesus- He didn’t go, “I’m the Messiah by the way. Did I tell you that? I am the Messiah.” He didn’t say that. He went to the scripture, found Himself in the word of God.

Where are you in the word of God? Where are you in it? Where are you in the word of God? Because THAT is what gets God on you. It’s not about knowing scripture, it’s about finding yourself IN the scripture. There’s the difference!” – Mark Kelsey, C3 Church Sydney Leaders Meeting June 1 2011, 19:19, http://vimeo.com/24594951, Uploaded Thu June 02, 2011.

At 10:49, Mark Kelsey says to C3 leaders about Christians in their bible studies (Connect Groups),

“They wont be impressed by what you know. They’ll be impressed by what’s on your life. That’s what touches people. That’s what feeds people. That’s what brings revival.” – Mark Kelsey, C3 Church Sydney Leaders Meeting June 1 2011, 19:19, http://vimeo.com/24594951, Uploaded Thu June 02, 2011.

WHY KELSEY SHOULDN’T USE MARKEGESIS

Remember what Jesus said?

“You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me!” John 5:39

Mark Kelsey above teaches C3 leaders that “it’s not about knowing scripture” but wants them to apply scripture in a way that makes other Christians ” impressed by what’s on [their] life”. He is using the scriptures for selfish gain. This directly opposes the declaration of Christ and should not be how any Christian minister should teach.

Finally, Mark tells the C3 leaders that other Christians “wont be impressed by what you know” and how “what’s on your life. That’s what touches people. That’s what feeds people. That’s what brings revival.” Really Mark? Are we God? Are you speaking from experience?

1. Who touches people’s lives IS the Spirit of God.

2. Who feeds people IS the Word of God.

3. Who brings revival IS God when we exalt Him by preaching repentance through the gospel.

4. And we are NOT Jesus who IS the Word of God.

IN CLOSING

What was just reinforced in the minds of C3 leaders was narcigesis: putting confidence in the flesh; throwing out the Word of God and BECOMING the Word of God (“It’s not about knowing scripture, it’s about finding yourself IN the scripture”). This is very troubling.

This is the very EXACT THING that Pastor Matt Chandler spoke against at Steve Furtick’s ‘Code Orange Revival’. This was the sermon that annoyed Steve Furtick which he afterwards sensored. Possibly due to critics, he uncensored Chandlers sermon. Read our articles about this here:

Phil Pringle Endorsing Problematic Steve Furtick for Presence Conference 2012

Chandlers sermon is well worth the watch:

In essence – the scriptures NEVER point to fallen, sinful creatures. They point mankind to God, Jesus Christ – the fulness of God in bodily form. We are in Jesus but we are not Jesus. We are made in His image but we are not God.

If you feel lead to pray for Mark Kelsey and the C3 movement, please do so.

______________________________

[1] Oxford American Large Print Dictionary, Oxford University Press, pg. 434.
[2] Wordnet, Princeton University, http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=eisegesis, (Accessed 28/02/2012).
[3] Wordnet, Princeton University, http://wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn?s=narcissistic, (Accessed 28/02/2012).
[4] John MacArthur, Grace To You, Marks of a True Believer, http://www.gty.org/resources/study-guides/40-5145/Marks-of-a-True-Believer, (Accessed 28/02/2012).